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Art Tips For Programmers?

An anonymous reader writes "Recently I've found myself in a bit of a bind with artwork. My programming contracts have been rather small, barely enough to pay myself let alone an artist. The art needs aren't intensive, mostly icons or sprites depending on the project. Despite owning a few key apps (Photoshop, LightWave, Maya) my art production output is rather poor. Are there any other developers who have learned to be self-sufficient? Are there any resources available to educate me on the finer points of making graphics that look professional?" One resource for the less-artistic among us is the collection of free SVG clip art at freedesktop.org, though it won't give advice for creating new art. What are some others?

132 of 565 comments (clear)

  1. one place to look by Chip7 · · Score: 5, Informative

    On place to look for art and helpfull artists is Deviantart

    --
    -- If you actually say LOL instead of laughing, maybe it's time to go outside! --
    1. Re:one place to look by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      as unlikely as it sounds, one book i got a LOT from was "photoshop 5 for dummies" - i've had 15+ programming experience, 10 years multimedia including formal study, and this book taught me more about professional production of graphics than just about anything else, and yes made me self sufficient to the extent i was hired as a design team leader instead of senior programmer on the last job.... so give it a try and forget the dummies stigma....

    2. Re:one place to look by Archon-X · · Score: 3, Insightful

      DeviantArt is really no good for constructive criticism. It's great if you want to have your ego stroked.
      Seriously, find the worst peice of art your eyes can bear, read the comments and they'll all follow like
      "WOW!"
      "o_0 LOVEIT!!"
      (_) so sweeet.

      It's a place for collective masturbation.

      The art is good when it's good. For inspiration, sure, but for constructive criticism, you've hit the wrong place :)

    3. Re:one place to look by MP3Chuck · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's like saying slashdot is a place only for Linux trolling and arguing about whether Perl is the best thing since sliced bread. Sure, there's a lot of it but it's hardly exclusive.

    4. Re:one place to look by MP3Chuck · · Score: 4, Interesting

      As an artist on -- and former staff member of -- deviantART: To anyone looking for pre-existing icons and stuff to use, please ask permission of the artist! Many artists would gladly grant permission to someone looking to use thier work so long as it's properly asked for. Spare a headache on both sides. :)

    5. Re:one place to look by Archon-X · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Totally different. Slashdot has an average age of over 15 ;)

      If you're looking for a true art forum, with solid feedbck from real artists, http://www.eatpoo.com No, it's not as bad as it sounds.

    6. Re:one place to look by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      True, but you can find some decent tutorials on specific techniques, which as a non-artist web designer I've found helpful.

    7. Re:one place to look by crummynz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Actually, I'm suprised there's not more. It's a damn huge site, I can't imagine trying to administrate something like that. The fact that its free is a testament to the hard work of the creators. Uh. I guess we're getting a little off topic. Sorry about that.

      --
      ~ Crummy
    8. Re:one place to look by DrVikarius · · Score: 4, Interesting

      A great book that should be read by coders etc. looking to do their own design graphics is "About Face - The Essentials of Interface Design" by Alan Cooper. It's informative, and also funny.
      Example: A person's PC is about to crash, and a box pops up on the screen that says, "System failure. You will lose all your data." Then there's a button below that says, "Okay".
      (Maybe an amusing little grinning demon icon would make it 'look' better ;)

  2. if you don't have it, you don't have it by parawing742 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sounds like you have all the right tools, but are lacking the finer points of graphic design. Might be worthwhile to take evening classes on computer design. I've personally found these to be helpful.

    1. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by bigman2003 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I solved the problem the easy way...I married an artist.

      I pay her for the projects she works on (we both have our own businesses) but I am always assured of getting great artwork, exactly the way I want it, with someone who will work within my schedule.

      Other than pledging to spend the rest of your life with this person, I would recommend a few things:

      #0- If you are not an artist- put down Photoshop, Maya, and any other tools created for someone with talent! Use tools that allow you to ASSEMBLE- not create. Creating is a rare talent, which is grossly under-appreciated...until you need it.

      #1- avoid too much 'clip art'. Anyone with an eye for art usually thinks it looks like ass.

      #2- for a lot of projects, you can make good use of objects (boxes, etc) colors, and some good fonts. And if you want free fonts, I highly recommend larabiefonts.com.

      #3- Look at other designs, and borrow, borrow, borrow. Very few people actually create something original. Just about everything has been done before, so just borrow away.

      #4- Make it as simple as possible. Strip things down, and maybe use the same recuring graphic over and over- similar to a website with a header. So now you only have one graphic that you need to struggle with.

      #5- In direct contrast with suggestion #1- (don't use clip art) you can find fonts that have interesting symbols in them. They are usually very clean, un-cluttered, and you can size them easily.

      #6- Keep the same style all throughout your project. It's better to have LESS style than TOO MANY styles.

      Well, the original poster asked for ideas- so that is my take on it. I spent 6 years as a 'graphic designer' in the print field, so I'm lucky that a lot of those 'skills' ('practices' would be a better word) carry over to the work I do now with websites, and programming. I'm so far from being an artist that it is sick, but I spend a lot of time organizing, and laying out my projects. I just try to create a layout that uses artwork sparingly..to keep my costs down.

      If you pay an artist $200 for a couple of simple graphics, you'll save yourself tons of time, and your project will come out much, much better. So reduce the number of graphics you need, and get the best ones you can.

      --
      No reason to lie.
    2. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by PurdueGraphicsMan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I wish I had some MOD points... You've made some wonderful points here... I'm a graphic designer that's been doing the exact opposite of what you're trying to do. I've been programming for the last 4 years and still learning every day. I highly recommend some graphic design classes. You'd be amazed at how much of a differce it would make. If that's not the road you want, obviously there are many resources online. Either way, it's a good road to go down.

      --


      The guitars sound good, now give me about 10db more on the cow bell.
    3. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by TechCody · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I just want to relate to you... I HAVE THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM. and it sucks alot that the end user I'm developing for always see's the poor art work and thinks the whole app must be poor. I always spend twice as long on the artwork in photoshop than on the code. And I've come to the conclusion... I don't have it. I just don't. so I'll be paying artist from now on. A great place to find people for cheap.. is your local college campus. College kids have it sometimes better than professionals, and they will work for peanuts, or in my case, I just pay them per graphic or layout/design instead of 125/hr. good luck! -Cody cody@codywalker.com

    4. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by l810c · · Score: 2, Informative
      Might be worthwhile to take evening classes on computer design.

      I've spent $75 the last 3 months at Lynda.com taking online courses of the Macromedia Suite. That $75 has given me hours and hours of great learning at a fraction of the price of an evening class at a brick and morter school.

      I've cut back on TV and try to watch for a couple of hours a night. Miss some nights, but on others I'll watch for 5-6 hours.

      I don't have much artistic talent, but for my web pages I wanted clean fonts, lines, graphics etc. I knew what I wanted, but not how to achieve it properly.

      I can know produce output that is exactly what I envisioned, even though that vision might not be so artistically inspired :)

    5. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I solved the problem the easy way...I married an artist.

      I call that the hard way, but to each his own.

    6. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by DoraLives · · Score: 4, Insightful
      if you don't have it, you don't have it

      Absolutely true, and there's simply no getting around it. But pity the poor shlub who "has it" but is working for a customer/end user who doesn't and must therefore submit to lectures and instructions from a complete idiot who seeks to twist and subvert perfectly good art to satisfy his own losery point of view.

      Don't laugh, it happens.

      --
      Is it fascism yet?
    7. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Absolutely true, and there's simply no getting around it. But pity the poor shlub who "has it" but is working for a customer/end user who doesn't and must therefore submit to lectures and instructions from a complete idiot who seeks to twist and subvert perfectly good art to satisfy his own losery point of view. ..sounds exactly like working as a developer!

    8. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by swerk · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've got just enough artist in me to get by, but sometimes when working in Gimp or Blender (my 2D and 3D apps of choice) I'll find my programmer side coming through a bit too much.

      Sometimes I spend a great deal of time getting things exactly even, or lined up precisely when it doesn't matter, or getting the image dimensions in pixels to be even multiples of 16. (Seriously, my geek side is like the Gollum to my Smeagol.)

      My primary piece of advice would be not to obsess over symmetry or nice numbers, to temporarily set aside your inclinations to make everything general-purpose and extensible. You can adjust vertices by 0.1 units every time, or you can just move the damn things somewhere that looks about right. The latter will look better. Save copies often if you're worried that it won't. (But it will! :^)

      As a programmer you do have a couple advantages. Turn your tendancies to over-engineer a problem into making the thing higher-resolution than you would possibly need. You know scaling down or compressing to .jpg gets rid of information you'll never get back. You have a tendancy to make things independant of each other, put that into using several layers and selection groups.

      And most of all, if your work looks anything at all like something you might see in Windows XP, or reminds you in any way of any MPlayer skin you've seen recently, it should be scrapped immediately unless you want your project to look fugly on purpose. :^)

    9. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by rgravina · · Score: 2, Insightful
      if you don't have it, you don't have it

      I'd just like to say that I don't believe this to true in the slightest! As a case in point, I have a friend who now has been working as a successfull web designer for years, and his graphic art/web design work DOES look good (he came from a background in commerce, so had no formal training in being a web designer, apart from those things relating to commerce) even though when be began his work looked like what you'd expect a complete beginners work to look like.

      There seems to be this fallacy in the artistic world that graphic design skills, or some other artistic skills you "just have" and can not be learned no matter how hard you try. As far as I know this is unfounded, and alienates those who might like to have a go at improving their design skills. My friend proves that this is not always the case, and I'd like to believe that if I applied myself I could also become a good graphic designer (I don't have the need nor desire to right now).

      All too often I hear from artistic types that they are "gifted", "special", "have it" and refer to intangible reasons why they have skill and simply alienate those, like the original poster, who have the desire to learn.

      I say, instead, if this is a direction your work is taking, and you want to become a programmer/artist then DO IT. Yes, paying others is an option but there is nothing more satisfying than doing it for yourself. And the artists should come back down to Earth and have think about the difficulty of the work that they are doing - yes, it takes skill and talent, I definately agree - but if this person is a computer programmer and has managed to learn how to do that, do you really think that they can not learn to design artwork for their applications? Is learning how to design really that much harder than learning anything else?

      Quite frankly, I wouldn't want anyone telling me I simply can't do something - at least encourage this person to try.
    10. Re:if you don't have it, you don't have it by Bluefirebird · · Score: 2, Informative

      I must say I also have the same problem. It's quite difficult for me to start with a blank canvas.
      After many years I started being quite good at borrowing from others.
      My favourite software is Corel Draw. Some people think it is quite difficult but not for me, since I've been using it from version 2.3 and I now have version 11. I know how to use most tools there and I always install the maximum number of fonts and clipart. You don't need to use the clipart "as it is". Take it, ungroup the elements, delete some things, change others...
      DON'T start from stratch!!!
      I made many things that initially were based to existing stuff, but after some time I had eventually replaced all those elements with things of my own creation.
      If you have an analytical mind with a bit of sense of style (like me), don't go for artistic software like Photoshop. Go for something more like Corel Draw. Use Photoshop only for... photos!! Duh!
      Good luck and start working! Experience is everything!

      --

      Fear is the mind-killer.

  3. openclipart.org and inkscape by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    I highly reccommend inkscape, which is pretty good for creating svg art, even for those who are not very artistic. It make drawing really easy.

    Also, try openclipart.org, where there is a lot of public domain licened content you can use.

  4. buy an icon collection by pinder · · Score: 3, Informative

    Buy one of the icon collections at StockIcons.com for only $350usd. They can be used royalty-free for any personal or commercial projects.

    1. Re:buy an icon collection by Squareball · · Score: 4, Informative

      Try KdeLook.org A lot of the icon sets are GPL.

    2. Re:buy an icon collection by codergeek42 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I hope you know that the GPL can apply to things other than software, and in this case the "source code" would consist of (for example, with SVGs) the XML used to create it, or the image data itself in an open format such as PNG.

  5. Practice and experimentation by athanis · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Personally, I find any tutorial online a very weak foundation to build on. They teach you specific tricks but nothing about being 'artistic'.

    Better would be for you to play around with the different tools. Experiment and keep the results, they might come in handy. And it's best not to start on the computer. Do a hand drawing of what you have in mind.

    I heard this quote from my prof. once:
    "Laborers work with their hands,
    Crasftmen work with their brain,
    Artists work with their heart."

    m2c

    1. Re:Practice and experimentation by drewzhrodague · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Rock-on. Sometimes I use a sharpie, and come up with an idea, and later take a picture with it, and modify the image to what I want. Understanding how the tools work does not take the place of artistic talent, or the knowledge of "how art works". However, there is a union between design, function, and form, and some of us programmers can see this -- sometimes. Having a tutorial on how to define color schemes, or a tutorial on similar styles might be in order for us non-art-students.

      --
      Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
  6. Just go with the flow... by sH4RD · · Score: 3, Insightful

    When working on graphics just let your creative juices flow. If what you wanted isn't the result, perhaps what came out is better? When I am working on graphics for a program or website I come up with a basic idea for where I want to go, and just play around and experiement. It doesn't take as long as it seems like it would, and some great creative products result. With Photoshop the best way to really get a feel for it is to have a bit of fun. Experiement, see what comes out. If you can't seem to be creative go look at a free tutorial online, many can both educate and inspire you.

    --
    WASTE - The Secure P2P
  7. Should I say it? by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Funny

    Outsource it to India *duck*

    (Seriously, their time is cheaper than yours, unless you get sub-min. wage.)

  8. Leave it to the artists? by Proc6 · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Despite owning a few key apps (Photoshop, LightWave, Maya) my art production output is rather poor.

    All the money in the world doesn't buy you personal artistic talent. Leave it to someone who has it. You could give my grandma a copy of Eclipse, VS.NET, EditPlus and vi and she'd still suck as a coder.

    --

    I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!

    1. Re:Leave it to the artists? by Proc6 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Can't "afford" an artist, but can "afford" to buy him or herself Photoshop, Lightwave and Maya?

      Mmmkay.

      --

      I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!

    2. Re:Leave it to the artists? by mav[LAG] · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Personal skill at art is something that is teachable and can be learned. Objects look the way they do because of where they are in relation to the viewer and what their dimensions are. Similarly light has rules which you can learn if you are to duplicate the illusion of light in a 2d representation like a drawing. Textures also have rules and so on. It's all about drawing what you see and not what you think is there. Sure there are people who have this ability from early on but the rest of us can learn very quickly.
      I'd suggest getting Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain if the submitter wants to learn for himself. And let me shamelessly plug my Deviant Art site so I can get a few more views. I must finish that Neo drawing sometime...

      --
      --- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
    3. Re:Leave it to the artists? by citog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      A thinly veiled accusation of piracy there, I reckon.
      Maybe, he thought he could do it himself and that the long term investment would be cheaper than constantly hiring an artist. Maybe he had the impression, as a lot of us do, that artists are expensive.

    4. Re:Leave it to the artists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      You could give my grandma a copy of Eclipse, VS.NET, EditPlus and vi and she'd still suck as a coder.

      My grandmother is Grace Hopper, she invented compilers.

    5. Re:Leave it to the artists? by Kristopher+Johnson · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I hope that if your grandma asks for advice about development tools, you won't just laugh at her and tell here that she can't possibly have the talent, and that she should leave it to someone who does.

    6. Re:Leave it to the artists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sorry, but I call bullshit.

      Photoshop costs ~$600USD, Lightwave ~$1600, and Maya at least $2200 (up to $7000 for Unlimited). $4400 dollars' worth of "long term investment" when he can barely afford to pay himself? Yeah, riiggghhttt.

      Even if "artists are expensive" -- which, incidentally, they aren't in terms of getting what you pay for (assuming you do your homework and find someone decent) -- that kind of money will buy you a *lot*. For instance, you could buy *many* stock icon packs from the IconFactory (see stockicons.com: around $250-400 each), or much cheaper alternatives if you shop around (a quick search points out InterfaceLift.com, which lists packs for as little as 30-50 bucks). Hell, four grand'll probably get you one or two custom icons from the absolute cream of the crop, so there'll be lots of people that'll do it cheaper.

      Plenty of graphic designers and artists work on commission, go hunt some out, there are thousands of talented creative types around. Universities and colleges are a great place for finding artists, too; pay them well and put in the extra effort to help you, they'll have something decent to add to their portfolio and if they think you're cool they'll show you where all the best parties are :)

    7. Re:Leave it to the artists? by Sunnan · · Score: 2, Insightful
      All the money in the world doesn't buy you personal artistic talent. Leave it to someone who has it.

      Or: practice, practice, practice. Maybe you won't be able to "paint a wooden spoon such that you can sense God", but you can become pretty good, with practice.
    8. Re:Leave it to the artists? by mav[LAG] · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You can teach technique, allowing someone to draw a passable Neo (for example).

      Ouch that hurts :) Look at some of the others too!

      You can't teach art; nothing will ever teach someone to be able to create original work on the level of the Sistine Chapel, Adam's photos, or some of The Designer's Republic's better works.

      I disagree - van Gogh, Michaelangelo and Leonardo, all taught themselves technique and then got to where they were through relentless practice and perseverance. Figure studies, copies, sketches, early drafts, training - none of these artists works just suddenly appeared. You can compare van Gogh's Carpenter (which is crap) to his Woman in Mourning (which is a masterpiece) and see how he taught himself technique and thus improved the quality of his work.
      But it depends on your definition of art I suppose. I'm obviously in the "can be taught" camp but I have a good decade of practice still to do before I can branch out and do more original work.

      --
      --- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
    9. Re:Leave it to the artists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well sure, what's it cost? A few hours' download time and a blank CD-R or DVD-R and we're there!

    10. Re:Leave it to the artists? by Monkeyfarmer · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I wish I had mod points... There's no thinly veiled accusation of piracy, I'd suggest an OVERT accusation of it appears warranted.

      I AM a professional graphic artist, and there's no way someone would dump money into both Lightwave AND Maya without knowing at least one of them. And, if this guy is a "coder" and the requirements are as indicated, such as icons, etc. WTF is he going to use Lightwave and Maya for? Photoshop, yes, you can stumble by to create something with a few books and a few weeks of time, but thinking that either of those powerful, general purpose 3D design and animation packages would be useful for program related artwork is foolish if you don't know them ahead of time. If time is money, and it is, then this guy wuld have to "spend" 10X to 100X in time to learn EITHER of those apps to get to a point to be able to use them for the indicated purposes what he would spend to just hire an artist to begin with.

      Perhaps he's not that bright? Well, I'd argue that anyone that is smart enough and talented enough to make enough money to afford both Lightwave and Maya, should be smart enough to do the basic business equation of make vs. buy. Not that smart, not that much money, back to square one this guy is using pirated software that is causing it to be more expensive for people like me that actually NEED it and actually PAY for it! Pisses me off.

      Now, if this guy had tons of $$$, then perhaps he can afford to buy those packages as shelfware for the "someday I'll get time" type thing, and write them off on his tax returns. However we have a self admission that he has no $$$ so that theory don't hold water.

    11. Re:Leave it to the artists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Not that smart, not that much money, back to square one this guy is using pirated software that is causing it to be more expensive for people like me that actually NEED it and actually PAY for it! Pisses me off.

      Ehrm, you just made the argument that he wouldn't have Lightwave or Maya had he had to pay for them. How can he be causing either to be more expensive then?

    12. Re:Leave it to the artists? by bcrowell · · Score: 2, Interesting
      You can't teach art; nothing will ever teach someone to be able to create original work on the level of the Sistine Chapel, Adam's photos, or some of The Designer's Republic's better works.
      • I disagree - van Gogh, Michaelangelo and Leonardo, all taught themselves technique and then got to where they were through relentless practice and perseverance. Figure studies, copies, sketches, early drafts, training - none of these artists works just suddenly appeared.
      I think the real question is what level of art you're aspiring to. Learning to be an amateur jazz musician at a relatively late age (from 30 to, now, 38) has really changed my ideas about artistic creativity.
      1. There's no secret ingredient to artistic creativity. Inspiration doesn't just come along and hit you. Take a look at Beethoven's notebooks --- a seemingly simple idea like the opening bars of the 5th symphony was actually the result of many, many revisions.
      2. You have to practice your technique. It's hard work.
      3. You should attempt things that are within the range of difficulty that your technique allows you to do competently.
      4. Seek out people who know about your art form, and who are willing to tell you when you suck.
      5. Over time, learn why those knowledgeable people think certain things suck, learn to detect and throw out your own failures, and eventually learn not to make those mistakes in the first place.
      In keeping with item 3 above, here are a couple of visual art things I did that I think were simple enough that I was able to carry them out competently: (OK, go ahead and criticize them -- I forgot rule #6, which is not to take criticism personally :-) They're really simple, but I think they're decent within the limits of what I was attempting.
    13. Re:Leave it to the artists? by Meostro · · Score: 3, Informative
      Photoshop costs ~$600USD, Lightwave ~$1600, and Maya at least $2200 (up to $7000 for Unlimited). $4400 dollars' worth of "long term investment" when he can barely afford to pay himself? Yeah, riiggghhttt.
      I can get all 3 of them for $524 USD plus S/H.
      Photoshop 8 CS : $275 USD
      Lightwave 8 3D: $249 USD
      Maya Personal Learning Edition : $ZERO (free as in beer)

      Note that these are all essentially student discounts: "normal" people will have to pay quite a bit more. I got Photoshop (4.0) plus MSVC (5.0) and a couple of others as a student (5+ years ago), and paid something like 20% of "normal" cost for them. I still use both of these in their original versions, I haven't even felt the need to upgrade yet.

      Also, as mentioned elsewhere, you can pick them up from someone on Ebay for considerably less, although the legitimacy of those copies could be questionable.
  9. Amateurs create amateurish art. by Raffaello · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just as in programming, or any other field, amateurs create amateurish output. There is a tendency among technical people to devalue the skills of non-technical people (and the other way 'round as well). This is a mistake. People with training in anything are going to produce better product than people without training.

    Invest in a professional. You'll be surprised how cheaply (sadly) good graphic artists will work.

    1. Re:Amateurs create amateurish art. by PalmerEldritch42 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I agree. And you can generally find some very cheap (even dare I say it, free) labor at the local art college in your area. You know, the Art Institute of Whatever for instance. You will get some good artwork cheap, and if your sign the right papers for them at the school, they will get credit for an internship. It works very well for both of you. I have done this when I was in school and I helped out some folks with some artwork. I got class credit for it, so I didn't mind working for free. Then, once I graduated, I moved it into a mostly-full-time freelance job. Then, later, I started outsourcing my own work to another school. So, it all comes around full-circle, and everyone wins.

      --
      Ceci n'est pas une sig.

      :wq!

    2. Re:Amateurs create amateurish art. by IntelliTubbie · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Just as in programming, or any other field, amateurs create amateurish output. There is a tendency among technical people to devalue the skills of non-technical people (and the other way 'round as well). This is a mistake. People with training in anything are going to produce better product than people without training.

      Invest in a professional. You'll be surprised how cheaply (sadly) good graphic artists will work.


      There's just something about this attitude that runs completely counter to the scientific/hacker mindset. Most people in programming -- and yes, in art especially -- start out as amateur enthusiasts, and through a combination of self-teaching, mentoring, and lots of practice, they become experts. Sure, for immediate results, it's best to hire someone who already has experience under his/her belt. But for someone who sincerely wants to develop expertise, it's frustrating to hear the old "if you don't know it now, you never will" line. It's just downright anti-intellectual.

      Cheers,
      IT

      --

      Power corrupts. PowerPoint corrupts absolutely.

    3. Re:Amateurs create amateurish art. by solios · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But for someone who sincerely wants to develop expertise, it's frustrating to hear the old "if you don't know it now, you never will" line. It's just downright anti-intellectual.

      Slashdot is a horrible place to come for art tips. Or even coding tips. Or Choice Of OS tips. Mainly because Everyone Is Right, which gets pretty annoying.

      Funny how in any other discussion there would be six billion OSS solutions proffered up, mailing lists linked, etceteras... but when it comes to art, the response is "HIRE AN ARTIST!"

      Yes, amateurs create amateur art. Sometimes that's all you need. If you really want more, you can buy it or comission it. If you want to do it yourself, then there's nothing to it but to practice. And practice. And practice. And practice. AND PRACTICE. AND PRACTICE. Aud inifinitum. Practice until people stop proferrring tips and start asking you for help.

      Hell, I'm a digital artist and it took me five years to get to the point where I can wear photoshop like a glove. Given enough time, I can make it do anything I want. I've been drawing since preschool and I still have problems with hands, persepective, and scaling. I'd have fewer obvious flaws if I spent more time drawing and less time nerding. But hey, I like the blinkenlights.

      You want to learn the stuff, you have to make friends with people who already know how to use it. Or take a crash-class on it. Getting the flow of the app from real people who really know it is orders of magnitude more instructive than any online tutorial or manual ever written- mostly because the pros already know where all of the really neat stuff is hidden, which can save you months of practicing and digging around trying to find it.

      There's no magic bullet- just like programming. You want to do the crime, you have to put in the time, so to speak.

    4. Re:Amateurs create amateurish art. by SSpade · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You certainly can produce excellent icon-level art, even if you have no talent at drawing at all. You still need a decent sense of aesthetics, though.

      As one example, I've generated several icons for the (commercial) application I develop using an almost perversely hackish approach.

      I write a perl script that uses GD::Image to draw a large (512x512) version of the shape I want, using plain flat colours for each region. No drawing skill required, no need for pixel-accurate mouse movements. When I'm happy with the shape and colours of the icon I run it through aquatint to give it a glassy 3d look and a drop-shadow. Looks great.

      (But for the toolbar icons and so on I licensed a generic iconset from IconExperience. An excellent investment in software that doesn't look like it sucks, for less than the price of a legal copy of PhotoShop.)

    5. Re:Amateurs create amateurish art. by jdbo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think that you've grossly misinterpreted the parent post; the point being made isn't that one cannot learn art, but rather that those with professional levels of experience will generate far preferable output compared to those with much less experience.

      Seeing as the initial question was made by a professional programmer seeking to generate professional-level artwork, the reply simply pointed out that professional-level work (in any discipline) comes from a combination of training, practice and experience (unusual talent/aptitude already being removed as a factor from this discussion).

      The implied logical conclusion (which you may have missed) is that the questioner would not wish to inflict unprofessional artwork on his clients (as this would devalue his professional-level programming), and that therefore paying for pro-level artwork would be the way to go.

      In no way is the post indicating that the questioner can't learn to generate pro-level artwork; it is, however, cautiously disabusing the questioner of the notion that there are shortcuts to training, practice and experience, and that trying to save some money by shortchanging the client with shoddy graphics (at least for any work done in the short-medium term) would be a bad idea.

      I don't see how this post reflects an anti-intellectual attitude; if anything, the ideas that one must take on the process of learning in order to become good at something, and that some things require more learning than others, are pretty basic tenets of intellectualism.

      Finally, nowhere in this post does it state anything equivalent to "if you don't know it now, you never will".

      P.S. this post was written by an art school grad whose first few years of programming efforts was for shite, thanks (thanks to training, practice, and experience I can now program myself out of and back into the proverbial paper bag).

    6. Re:Amateurs create amateurish art. by flsquirrel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So I guess what you're saying is that we're all born with the same potential. It just matters where we spend our time. That seems a bit idealistic to me. You want to explain why some people are more athletic than others? Why some people have higher iq's than others? Do you want to somehow argue that this is purely and totally environment and has nothing at all to do with genetics?

      I have a real hard time accepting that as I suspect that most people on /. would.

      There's an old expression that says "the world needs ditch diggers too". That is to say that some people just aren't good at some things and there's nothing wrong with that. Not everyone has the intellect to be college material no matter how hard they study or practice. Likewise, some people just don't have the knack for art and some don't for programming.

      Likewise, there is little any book can teach you about which colors just look good together or how movement should flow across a graphic. They can teach you basics like complimentary colors and vanishing points and different things. There are guidelines that they'll teach you in basic art courses but these are just that. Guidelines. True artistic talent comes from having the judgement of when and how to break these and when to embrace these and there is little any book can do to quantify that.

      The problem with art is that its all based on opinion and you can't quantify opinion. I know it frustrates us logical types to think there are things that can't be quantified, but those things are out. Our culture and our human nature are full of them.

      Now what you're pointing out with that book is good. It is possible to develop the artistic talent that we have and make the most of what we have. But making the most of what we have isn't the same as being top notch.

      Likewise, if you don't have artistic talent, you're opinion of how awesome your friends are at art may not be accurate. You may be easy to impress with mediocre works. Other recognized artists may say they suck. On the other hand, you might be some sort of a prodigy and your friends too. Who knows? It's all opinion either way.

      Point is, everything is relative and subject to majority rule as far as opinions go. It's just unusual that people are relatively high in both logic and popularly accepted art talent.

  10. Take a look at the Open Source offerings by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If that doesn't prove to you the utter lack of graphics skill in the Open Source community, I don't know what would convince you. Coming here asking for help from Open Source "artists" is like going to a Sci-fi convention asking for tips on literature: you'll get a lot of input, but it will be mostly useless.

    If you want to have professional icons, hire a professional. There are people that do this for a living. They studied and practiced and now are eking out a living doing it. Same as how you studied and practiced and are now making a nice living writing code. Let those people do their job, and concentrate on your job. The product will be better if you let everyone stick to their area of expertise.

  11. College students by agentkhaki · · Score: 4, Informative

    A great untapped resource: college students. If you know folks in college, or there is a local college with a decent art program, contact their career advisor (or anyone at the art school) and let them know that you've got work that needs to be done.

    Generally, you'll find one or two students who have the budding (or more developed) skills and know-how, and who will be more than grateful for the opportunity to earn a little extra cash or, more importantly, who will work for free in exchange for being able to use a "real world" project or two in their portfolio.

    Not only are you "giving back" to the community, but you get what you need for cheap/free.

    Two words of caution though. First, don't be a condescending ass. A lot of non-artistic, business-types tend to think of art students as starving-scum-of-the-earth, and they end up coming across as assholes who don't get the best they could. Second, realize that college students aren't always 100% reliable (were you?), and budget for that time-wise).

    --
    Ack!
  12. get a graphics tablet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    All the Wacom models work reasonably happily with Linux+X and the relevant drivers at http://linuxwacom.sf.net/ - wacom is not at all linux-hostile.

    Using a tablet means you can draw like an adult on your computer (directly on the screen if you spring for a Wacom Cintiq...).

    I used to think a mouse was okay for GIMP and Blender use. It's not. It _utterly sucks_ . I got myself a tablet on a whim and now I can draw as well on my computer as on paper (okay I'm not brilliant at drawing on paper, but like most people I've ever seen, I'm far better on paper or a tablet than drawing with a mouse!)

    1. Re:get a graphics tablet by log0n · · Score: 2, Informative

      This was already marked +Informative, but I'll offer up my agreement with this anyway.

      Even if you have no artistic ability (conception, composition, etc), having a wacom table - just like pen and paper - makes blocking out your ideas much easier and clearer than using a mouse or text document alone. Keyboards require us to compose and ponder.. they don't really allow freeform abstract creativity.

      Get a table, create at the speed at which you think (and write by hand). Then use the keyboard to clean things up.

      And as the original poster stated, even if you can't draw but you can chicken scratch with a pencil, it's a lot easier to do that with a tablet than a mouse.

  13. Re:The Tools? by athanis · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Actually, that's interesting. It's like the chicken and the egg problem. Graphic tools can only become profitable if enough people use them (PHotoshop being an almost de facto standard in the graphics world). However, the learning curve for these programs are so high and they are so expensive that it seems hardly likely for them to start off.

    It's kind of like Microsoft's penetration due to software piracy..

    In any case, we aren't discussing tools, but computer art. Tools don't make the artist. Practice, patience and passion do, as some famous person once said.

  14. Here's a tip: Hire a designer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How ridiculous would it sound to hear a designer say: "You know, I've got some really nice icons, but I just am not that good at the code thing. Anyone know where I can get some quick tips to slap some code on this icon?" If anyone could program, everyone would. If anyone could design graphics well, everyone would.

  15. If you can afford Maya, Lightwave and PS ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ... then you can afford to commision a graphic designer ;)

  16. Glyfx.com by illusioned · · Score: 2, Informative

    One resource that has been invaluable to my company is http://glyfx.com/. They make icons, splash screens, etc. It costs money, but it is not that expensive and you can use them for all your projects after just one purchase. The icons are also high color and very modern, give them a shot.

  17. Free Art Test! by carambola5 · · Score: 2, Funny

    Free Art Test. Are you an artist? Find out Free. Premiere Home Study Program. aff.

    --that's all i got from google's sponsored link.

    --
    IWARS.
    People, in general, disappoint me. Politicians even more so.
  18. Practice practice practice.... by tinrobot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    As someone who makes my living as a digital artist, it's really just a matter of practice, practice, and more practice. Anyone who can write their name can potentially draw a good picture, but it takes time to train your eye and your muscles to accomplish that. Chuck Jones once said everyone has 100,000 bad drawing inside of them, so it's best to get the bad ones out of the way early. It's kind of the same for digital art.

    If you don't have the time to practice, I'd say spend a few bucks get some good looking clip art. The stuff you buy at Fry's and Office Depot pretty much sucks, but there are some collections out there that look pretty darn good.

  19. Outsource! by mcrbids · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yep. You heard it.

    Write your applications such that the artwork can be easily added/updated later. Make it clear that artwork is NOT your forte, and that you'll structure your application to allow this later improvement without requiring (much of) your assistance. Make sure it works OK, and doesn't look TOO bad.

    If anybody asks about looks, point to the contract. Also, maintain a good relationship with a good graphic artist, and don't forget to recommend him/her.

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  20. Ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sorry, programers suck at art and artist suck at programing.
    Ever wonder why OSS interfaces are so ugly and hard to use? Because there's no such thing as an open source artist. Best off you hire someone to do a good job instead of trying to half-ass it yourself.

  21. What not to do by plasm4 · · Score: 3, Informative

    For the love of god, please don't use photoshop lens flare effects! Unless of course you're going for a retro look.

    1. Re:What not to do by EEBaum · · Score: 4, Funny

      The lens flare... helping amateurs feel like professionals and professionals identify amateurs since 1996.

      --
      -- I prefer the term "karma escort."
  22. The finer points of stick figures by EEBaum · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If the product allows, there's a certain quasi-postmodern charm in "programmer art", if it is cohesive as a whole. Stick figures and such. It has to be completely confident in its kitchiness, though... amateurish art that is supposed to look professional is awful.

    If it's for an office-esque app, though, the highly "modern professionalist" users would likely cringe in self-righteous disgust at such a suggestion.

    --
    -- I prefer the term "karma escort."
  23. Photoshop, LightWave, Maya? by jedrek · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wait, you don't have enough money to hire an artist, but you have enough money for Photoshop, Lightwave AND Maya? These packages cost... oh... a couple GRAND together? Hell, just PS (not studio) is $300-400.

  24. If you really can't spare a penny by LeninZhiv · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the other suggestions given here are still beyond what you can realise, here's one no-cost solution that can work in a pinch (depending on the requirements of your application, of course):

    1. Use Google images, a scanner, or any similar appropriate source to get stuff that looks as much like what you want as possible.
    2. Open that image in GIMP, add a new layer over it and trace the outline of that image.
    3. Delete the original layer (which you have no right to appropriate), and colorise the new layer with all your knowledge of gradiants, textures, etc. that you can muster. (Read up on what the GIMP has to offer in this department if necessary.)

    This works especially well when you're developing for mobile applications or other situations where the loss of fine artistic ability is not likely to be noticed. If your needs go beyond this, however, it will not be adequate and many of the other suggestions presented here are far more appropriate.

    1. Re:If you really can't spare a penny by cgreuter · · Score: 2, Informative

      Delete the original layer (which you have no right to appropriate),

      If you don't have the right to use the image, the above procedure won't get you off the hook. Tracing the outline creates a derivative work of the photo and the copyright holder of the original image can still make a claim on it.

      Of course, you could always work around that by taking your own source pictures with a digital camera. I've done that a couple of times (without the tracing step, granted--I need to give that a shot) and it's come out not-too-horrible.

      Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer.

  25. Why programmers have a hard time becoming artists by alaivfc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The poster's comment about having the "right tools" (PS, Lightwave, etc.) exemplifies most programmer's and the general publics incorrect view on computer graphics and technology and art. IT'S JUST ANOTHER PAINTBRUSH.

    All too many people think that if you have the right "digital tools" amazing Pixar quality art will pop-out. Its simply not true. The primary reason that pixar is so unbelievable is not because John Lasseter and co. are incredible programmers but because they are amazing artists that understand how to use their paintbrush-the computer-to the fullest extent.

    Some posts have mentioned taking evening classes and such. That's a good idea, but all too many of them are stuck in the rut of teaching you how to do different tricks on a particular piece of software.

    As a programmer who has dabbled in art my suggestion is to try and forget your programmer self. Don't look at Lightwave and see all its cool features, its extensibility, effects, etc. Approach the project just like you would if someone were to hand you a paintbrush and say paint a picture or a camera and say make a movie. In other words, understand the medium you are working with, but don't get engrossed in it. It's still just art.

  26. Just Give The Job To Someone by Nehi+the+Ganchark · · Score: 2, Funny

    I've done a few (as in as I can count the total jobs I've done on my left hand) projects for programmers who couldn't design their way out of a wet paper bag. Problem is that not too many programmers have approached me with work, so it remains a hobby for me. It's been my experience that programmers simply don't want to deal with giving even small parts of their projects to others, quite likely out of fear that someone will shanghai their hard work. It's a legitimate concern, sure, but most graphic designers/artists aren't looking to burgle your code...

    If you're having trouble with with your graphics, then by all means give the job to someone else. Please. There are plenty of folks who speak the same language you do who will do the work you need on the cheap.

  27. Advice from a designer by SpamJunkie · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm a professional designer with much experience with web sites. I've also worked on many other projects including a familiar theme for Enlightenment back when Enlightenment was popular.

    I've seen a lot of sites designed by developers and I can tell you what to do - listen to what I say and you'll be better than 90% of the sites on the net: keep it simple.

    This works on so many levels it's ridiculous. The most well designed sites with the most expensive designers do this as a matter of course. It's not only refreshingly easy on the eyes it's also good business.

    Don't try to be gabocorp or razorfish - those guys already have the look-at-me-look-at-me-look-at-me market saturated. Most paying clients want something more professional. Stick to what you do well - developing, hopefully - and it'll get the recognition it deserves with a design that lets your real work shine through.

    Pick a nice color scheme, stay away from comic sans and courier and you're halfway there. Leave the graphics for photos and logos, use color sparingly, and limit yourself to as few different colors and fonts as possible.

    If you're really interested you could pick up a few design or mac magazines - really! even if you don't use a mac - just to get an idea of what clean & simple design is like.

    1. Re:Advice from a designer by gtada · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Of all the advice I've read, the parent gives the best. Seriously, listen to a designers advice, not another programmer turned "artist". No offense, but programmers usually don't make the best designers (rather unsophisticated). It's the same as asking an artist who dabbles in programming for software engineering advice. I'm speaking in general terms (I've met some great designer-programmers and programmer-artists), so save your flames. :D

      To add to the parents advice, I'd say to look at fashion magazines for color schemes. Also, pick up a book on graphic design.

      Last piece of advice: don't be too literal when designing icons... usually an icon that is too literal is also rather busy and hard to understand. It seems that the tendency is to take a metaphor and tobrun with it. Fight the urge and find a simpler way to represent the same idea.

  28. Have you no decency? by solios · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yeah, Art Students are a great way to get what you need on the cheap. I should know. Several of my friends - myself included- got fucked over right out of the gate because we believed what the contractor told us- that it would be "a good portfolio-building experience."

    So's sitting in my bedroom jacking off into the GIMP, thank you.

    "Portfolio Building Experience" means it pays a pittance if you're lucky, and you can totally forget about having any rights to your work. Oh, and PBEs are typically long hours with shit pay and no benefits. My first field experience was one of these- a contract job to do some multimedia work. After the dust settled, my hourly for the project was somewhere around eighty cents.

    You get what you pay for- if you get into the habit of taking advantage of art students, don't be surprised if the talent pool suddenly dries up on you.

    1. Re:Have you no decency? by captnitro · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Damn straight. I've been doing various forms of media consulting for a while, but it didn't start to pay off until a while ago, when I realized both client and designer need to be fully invested in the project, financially and otherwise. College kids can't do that.

      By which I mean, I had a lawyer draw up a very detailed contract on the rights and responsibilities of both parties. I visit him building every time there's a new client; contracts aren't one-size-fits-all.

      You'd think contracts and big prices scare off potential customers, and you'd be right, but you have to think a little bigger. You're thinking about scaring off enormously consuming projects for $500, and I'm talking retainers of thousands and tens of thousands. If you spend all your time on the little fish, you won't have time to spend on the big ones.

      A few months ago, somebody needed some design work done, called my ratecard outrageous, went to a college kid, paid him something that would have barely made a night out. Came to me the week afterwards. Shock! You get what you pay for.

      Pay a designer well and they'll do good work. Pay them poorly and you'll find out why.

  29. I was in the same boat by skittixch · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You must first be an artist, before you are a digital artist. Learn the fundamentals of the work you're trying to accomplish, if your area is in logo design, research effective logos, get a sketchbook, and jot down any ideas that come to mind. Don't be afraid to venture from the digital realm, that's where the magic happens. Let yourself design on paper, and create and articulate in the computer. (I've spent the past year at art school overcoming that very concept) good luck with your passions

  30. color schemes by typhoonius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One thing I've consistently noticed about programmers is that they have no grasp of color theory. Witness the countless ridiculously low-contrast Blackbox themes. Hell, look at Windows XP's primary color-filled default theme.

    In general, get to know the basics. Just looking cool doesn't make something usable, and the best art brings together prettiness and usability.

  31. Some survival tips from a fellow non-expert. by adolfojp · · Score: 5, Informative
    These are some of the things that I've learned from my mistakes and from experience. I was in your situation about two years ago. Enjoy!
    • 1. Stock photos. A good picture is worth a 1000 design elements. Start scavenging for stock photos NOW. A good place to start is here: http://sxc.hu/.
    • 2. Avoid excessive effects and filters when not needed. Nothing ruins a good design like trying to emboss everything or making it 3D.
    • 3. Keep it clean and simple. Think Apple.
    • 4. Learn from the experts. Visit places like http://www.deviantart.com/ You can even post designs and get peer reviews. Also, http://http//www.alistapart.com will help.
    • 5. Use and abuse CSS. The separation of design elements from everything else will help immensely. You will be amazed by this site: http://www.csszengarden.com/ Change the themes and be amazed by the power of CSS!!!
    • 6. Buy graphic design books, preferably those with collections of commercial art made by different designers. Get inspired ;-)
    • 7. Get a digital camera and take lots and lots of pictures of the world around you. Current examples of designs and logos and ads will help.
    I hope that helps!

    Cheers,
    Adolfo
  32. Time-Warping to 1993 by RobotRunAmok · · Score: 2, Interesting

    [Doing my best Mako impression:]

    "Once upon a time, when the WWW was whipping across the business landscape like a cold wind from the North, nobody in business had a clue how to wrangle it. Was it an IT thing? A Marketing thing? A New Business thing? It was a Time of Chaos, and still-moist script-jockies were christened "Web Masters" and given the imprimatur, "Um, do your thing. And here's a six figure salary, cuz we haven't a clue what 'your thing' is. Oh, and make it look 'cool,' cuz we heard it's supposed to look 'cool.'"

    And they did their thing.

    And it looked dreadful.

    Happily, business recovered, bean counters and Marketing Directors finally found something upon which they could agree, and color-blind code-jockeys were partnered with art-types so the WWW could outgrow its purple-orange acne-encrusted adolescence and mature into pseudo-suave 'white-is-the-new-black' twenty-something hipsterism."

    Bottom line: I'd rather teach an artist how to code (and have done so), then let a coder try to "do art." But if you want it to look remotely professional, you prolly need at least two heads involved.

  33. Keep it simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, what advice would you give an artist who had to do all their own programming? You'd tell them to keep everything simple, don't get too ambitious, don't try fancy architectures or get hung up on optimization.

    The same thing is true of you: keep it simple. Go for clarity, not ethereal beauty. Pick a font and stick to it. Pick one very, very simple color scheme and stick to it. Eliminate anything that is unnecessary, especially anything "decorative."

    And don't be discouraged... Oddly enough, if you focus on simplicity and consistency and forget about beauty, you may have the best chance of creating something people call beautiful!

  34. Microsoft to the rescue! by TheSHAD0W · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is a wonderful style guide to building icons meant for Windows XP, and the techniques are good for icons of all sorts. You can figure out how to build good looking icons out of simple design elements.

  35. Learn to Think Like an Artist by MichaelCrawford · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Like, I expect, most people here I was unable to draw more than stick figures until I read Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain by Betty Edwards. Here are some samples of my drawings.

    Edwards based her book on the results of experiments performed by Roger Sperry of Caltech. Sperry's experiments used people whose brains had been severed in the middle to treat severe epilepsy. By studying how these "split-brain" patients reacted to stimuli sent via the sense organs to one side of the brain or the other, Sperry was able to deduce that our artistic ability is centered in the right hemisphere of the brain, while our logical and verbal ability comes from the left.

    Most slashdotters are heavily left-brained people. But artists are right brained people. To create artwork for your software, you have to learn to think with your right hemisphere.

    Edwards says in her book that anyone who can learn to think in what she calls "R-Mode" can learn to draw. The earlier lessons in her book focus on stimulating that sort of thought while quieting the interference from the left hemisphere.

    She teaches drawing with pencil and paper, but once you've completed the exercises in her book I'm sure you will have a much easier time using computer graphics applications.

    The right hemisphere of the brain is responsible for more than just visual art. At the same time as I learned to draw from Drawing on the Right I taught myself to play the piano. In 1994 I borrowed some recording equipment from a friend and recorded my album Geometric Visions, which you can download in MP3 format. (Ogg as soon as I get off my lazy arse and encode it.)

    --
    Request your free CD of my piano music.
  36. Definitly Students by nate+nice · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Many people have pointed out that getting college students to do the work on the cheap is the best route for you. It really is. Here is how you go about doing it if you do not know any graphic design or fine art students. Make a flier, explaing that you need a designer to make icons for your project.

    Make some copied of this flier and post them in the grpahic and art departments of the local college. You will probably get quite a few calls and ask to see some wrok they have done. The one that appears the most responsable and has the work you would think you want is the one you choose.

    You probably won't have to pay over $100.00 to $200.00, depending on the scope of the work. If it's just icons you need, $50.00 may be fine. Let them know they can use this work for their portfolios and use you as a reference in the future.

    It benefits everyone. You get cheap design labor and they get beer money/positive references.

    --
    "If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer ..."
  37. Nice to see the other side of the fence. by solios · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a digital artist, it's nice to see the tables turned. I'm used to being shat on and talked over by UNIX admins and coders who just assume I know vi, or emacs, or where network interfaces are on bsd or various linux distros, et ceteras.

    And the programmers are looking for art tips? Nice.

    My advice : If you can't do it yourself, make a deal with someone who can. It doesn't even have to involve money. Could be barter or whatever.

    Just remember that an artists time is just as valuable as yours, if not more so- and artists are typically subjected to the harrowing horrors of Art Direction. "Make it smaller! Make it rounder! Can I have it in cornflower blue? It's too complicated! It's not complicated enough! It's not what I want but I know fuckall about how to communicate my vision to you so I'm just going to keep requesting changes until you resign from the project and tell all of your art friends I'm an asshole!" and so forth.

    I do video and admin work for a living, and I share my work area with a designer who gets pushed around and shat on daily. I love working for myself, but from what I've seen, having someone else in charge of my visual output is a special kind of hell- which is why I don't do contract work.

    Know exactly what you want and be prepared to produce several "along these lines" or "kind of like this, only..." examples to illustrate your point. Give the contractor too much free reign and you're likely to get some whacked out thing that bears no resemblance to what you want- wasting their time and yours in the process.

  38. Art by _KiTA_ · · Score: 2, Informative

    The absolute best art learning book I've ever seen is "[url=http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/ -/0874774241/qid=1100569243/sr=8-1/ref=pd_csp_1/10 2-9640388-0042521?v=glance&s=books&n=507846]Drawin g on the Right Side of the Brain[/url]" by [url=http://www.drawright.com/]Dr. Betty Edwards[/url]. It teaches "how to see" instead of "how to draw"... rather, instead of saying "see this? draw it. keep going, eventually you'll figure it out. Maybe"; it teaches you how to start seeing the same way artists see (which is ultimately what allows people to draw well).

    I highly reccomend it. The before and after images are just asounding -- in just 5 days Dr. Edwards' students show simply AMAZING progress.

  39. Free Software Icon Howto by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    jimmac has a nice site on this very topic

    Much more to it that you probably guessed.

  40. I call BS by Grond · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This guy basically claims three things:

    1. He owns Photoshop, LightWave, and Maya. A cursory look at pricing reveals that buying those programs would cost about $3200 total (assuming he buys Maya Complete and not Maya Unlimited).

    2. He only needs some icons or sprites.

    3. He can't pay an artist to make those things.

    I haven't priced custom artwork latetly, but assuming it's -anything- like custom software, I have a damned hard time believing he can't get what he needs for much, much less than $3200. I think it's much more likely that he is using illegal copies of those programs, in which case I think he needs to get out of the commercial software business if he's not willing to respect the copyright of other programmers. In any case, if he's willing to infringe software copyright, he might as well just copy some artwork, too.

    Sorry for the harsh language, but this guy is either an idiot not to have done the math or a crook for copying software illegally.

  41. Re:Riiiiight... by mikael · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The quickest way I know to get those professional looking anti-aliased images using a cheap icon editor is to design the icon at 512x512 and then scale the image down to 64x64.

    --
    Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  42. Iconfactory by spiralscratch · · Score: 3, Informative

    The Iconfactory offers royalty-free icons and design services. You may want to look into them. They have some nice-looking stuff.

  43. quick start guide to being a fine artist by indianropeburn · · Score: 2, Insightful

    asking for a tutorial on how to be a professional graphic artist is like asking for a quick guide on how to program high quality, bug free commercial software. it can take years of practice and learning. you eventually find what's right, or what works for your needs. there are countless tutorials online that will teach you little tricks on how to achieve various visual effects with photoshop. you simply need to find a way to apply them in a way that suits you. people don't spend four or more years in college for a BFA or design degree for nothing.

  44. You have two choices by wombatmobile · · Score: 2, Funny

    Get a camera and shoot stuff like what you see here.

    Or give up with the art and get a job here.

  45. ignorant someone? by Roman_(ajvvs) · · Score: 2, Interesting
    It's more important for a graphic designer to know computers than it is for a software engineer to know how to use colour wheels. I'm not saying it's unnecessary, but I am saying graphic design is a task that isn't common in software projects. UI design - while requiring the same traits as graphic design - is another skill entirely, and I've seen some really unfriendly UI designs from graphic designers thinking they can transfer the knowledge form one area to another and always get it right.

    I've had graphic designer friends come to me for minor-incident tech support or other small software-related tasks, because they don't have the money or budget to get a full-time software partner. The same problem occurrs with smaller developers. budgetary restraints in software projects simply eliminate the ability to hire a graphic artist for minor work.

    In a perfect world, only graphic designers would design graphics and only software developers would develop software. As it is today, some people have to do a little of everything to get by. Some of their required tasks they're trained in, and in others they're not. I'm sure you can design the most beautiful icon ever seen by mankind, but if you can't do it for $100 or less, then you're not going to get many requests from programmers working alone.

    --
    click-clack, front and back. I'm not moving this car otherwise.
  46. Illustrator, Freehand, Inkscape, and Class by Jameth · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you are trying to create icons with those tools, you have a basic misunderstanding of the medium.

    Photoshopping is for editing, well, photos. It's fine also as a finishing tool for icons that are already made.

    Maya is used for making 3D models, which is almost always overkill for an icon. (I've never used Lightwave, but I recall it being a 3D app as well).

    What you need is a vector graphics editor. I would have to recommend Adobe Illustrator myself, although Inkscape is coming along quite well (and is free, so start there if you just want to see what I'm talking about). As for Macromedia Freehand, it seems to be a good program. However, I've always found it awkward (many will disagree) and at the school where I work it has incredibly many printing errors, so I can't really say.

    And, beyond all that (as others have said) the key problem is most likely that you are an amatuer, not a professional. So, take an art course. Just go to a local college and sign up for a 2D design course of some sort.

  47. Re:DO NOT USE inkscape by Sunnan · · Score: 2, Informative

    Funny you should mention Tigert, who does use the Gimp.

    I know a lot of artists for free/open source software projects use non-free programs like AI or 3DS, but not all.

    Different people are used to different tools, and I primarily use Sodipodi, with a couple of extra programs on the side (most notably the Gimp).

    Wait 5-10 years before using the free art tools? That's crazy talk. They're usable enough to do great art now. (You know that Susan Kare, one of my favourite artists, did a lot of her most beautiful work using only MacPaint or Windows Paintbrush?)

  48. Open Source Web Design (oswd.org) by dan_bethe · · Score: 2, Informative
    Open Source Web Design has been good to me.

    "Open Source Web Design is a community of designers and site owners sharing free web design templates as well as web design information. Helping to make the internet a prettier place!"

  49. Charge enough... by barfy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    To hire all the people that need to be involved. Writing, programming, and iconagraphy are three different skills, and have really no overlap. Writers, do indeed write better. Programmers do indeed program better, and artists do indeed art better.
    It sounds as if the guy that writes your proposals and specs the jobs (who is that in the mirror?) could use a lesson in resource requirements.

  50. Re:if you don't have it...HOW TO FAKE IT by darkPHi3er · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "If you pay an artist $200 for a couple of simple graphics, you'll save yourself tons of time, and your project will come out much, much better. So reduce the number of graphics you need, and get the best ones you can."

    Great Advice and absolutely true, HOWEVER, for the "DIY" types, i would add:

    1. AVOID THE HIGH-LEARNING CURVE TOOSLS, SUCH AS:
    A. Photoshop
    B. Dreamweaver
    C. Flash
    D. ALL THE 3D Products; Lightwave, Maya, 3dFX

    i'm a programmer/developer, and i've been using some of the above for years in high end web design, and find that if i don't use them for a few months, i have to relearn big chunks of the program, sometimes ending up with a 3:1 ratio between learning and designing.

    2. USE THE MORE "AUTOMATED DESIGN PRODUCTS, SUCH AS;

    A. Ulead PaintShop Pro -- http://www.jasc.com/products/?
    B. Macromedia Fireworks
    C. Adobe Photoshop Elements
    D. Cool Button Tool -- http://www.buttontool.com/
    E. Cool FX Menu Tool -- http://www.buttontool.com/

    These programs are substantially cheaper $$$$ to buy then the "Biggies", and are designed to take some of the load off some of the design choices that can drive even highly skilled designers (Choices such as; opacity, blends, masks and moires)....

    STEAL, uh, i mean "homage" any image (OBEY ALL PERTINENT COPYRIGHT RULES, AND DON'T "HOMAGE" FROM MAJOR SITES THAT ARE KNOWN TO EMPLOY LOTS OF LAWYERS!!!!!!!!!)

    you can be a good citizen and ask, or you can homage them and alter them enough to make them "yours"

    3. LEARN HOW TO FIND HELP FROM PROS: there are a # of websites designed to provide such help, for example http://creativepro.com/ is used by pretty much every designer i've worked with or known. everyone of the major software provider has both developer programs and tutorials and community BBs, forums, etc..

    some companies such as Adobe and Macromedia really push these developer forums and you can frequently get better/faster/smarter solutions from these forums, than from the companies' Tech Support programs!!!

    4. SELECT A "LOOK AND FEEL"; from a product/service/??? similar to what your product/service/??? and use that to extract GENERAL guidelines about how to present your design. Chances are these folk have paid good monety to learn lessons about to sell your similar product/service/??? -- go to school on them, BUT DON'T copy their design (Lawsuit City), extract their approach and see how you can apply it to your particular project...

    Good Luck!

    --
    Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
  51. Here's a sitepoint article that might just help. by Spy+der+Mann · · Score: 2, Informative

    Try Sitepoint. is a very good web design site. At first there were only technical articles, but they added an art column, and now they got their art and design newsletter.

    Here's the article: Good designers copy, great designers steal. Two thumbs up for that one. They even give you examples of how to do it right.

    Might wanna try.

  52. Re:DO NOT USE inkscape by reflective+recursion · · Score: 2, Informative

    I use sodipodi. It's actual a decent and quite capable tool. Tigert uses (or has) GIMP, but when he started it was much much less capable than it is today. Think about that.

    Larry Ewing, the designer of the Linux pengiun, used GIMP 0.54, which is about where Sodipodi is compared to something like Adobe Illustrator today.

    GIMP 0.54 and pengiun

    Sodipodi complements GIMP *greatly*. It's a joy to use both together, since GIMP vector tools aren't that useful for actual drawing purposes and can be tedious.

    --
    Dijkstra Considered Dead
  53. Mask your artistic deficiencies by Regnard · · Score: 2, Insightful

    How? By not being artistic. If you find that you can't seem to get the right look, try a minimalist approach.

    --
    Need a color? Try 100 random colors
  54. What kind of Artwork or Drawing do you NEED? by billstewart · · Score: 4, Insightful
    It's really tough to answer the original question, because the anonymous reader doesn't say what kind of artwork he/she needs to do.
    • Basic network or equipment drawings (flowcharts, boxes and arrows with labels on them, etc.) are something that's not hard to draw in Powerpoint (though it was easier to do in MacDraw 15 years ago, and pick your favorite Open Source Free Beer drawing package if you'd prefer.)
    • Visio is a much more powerful object-ish drawing system that I should get around to learning, and it comes with a wide range of standard object pictures (some in the basic packages, more in various confusingly-priced add-on packages.) Kivio is a similar though probably less powerful KDE imitation of Visio.
    • Basic kitschy clip art is available from a wide range of sources if you really like that sort of thing. A Real Artist would probably spend a lot of time telling you not to do it, or at least helping it not clutter up your presentations.
    • Photoshop is really good for manipulating photographs. If *that's* related to the kind of art you do, fine, but there's no indication that the kind of art you need is better matched to Photoshop than to Powerpoint or Visio.
    • In addition to Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain, you're also supposed to go read "The Visual Display of Quantitative Information" by Edward Tufte.
    • Go look at the first couple of years' issues of Wired. Then don't do that.
    --

    Bill Stewart
    New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
  55. Programming rules for art. by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1. Colors, Colors, Colors: Understand Colors and what works and what Doesn't Red Green Blue for Displays Cyan, Magenta, Yellow, Black for printing. Red and Green make Yellow and Magenta and Yellow make Red. Warm Colors are Red and Yellow, Cool Colors are Cyan and Blue. Black Gray and Whites are Neutral. Green, Magenta are in the middle of Warm and Cool. Avoid mixing inverse colors except for Black and White. (A way to find the inverse color is to use a graphic program and take a negative image of it)

    2. Don't Go Crazy: Often for a programmer who starts dabbling with Art they like to go crazy and put as much artwork as possible. Look at companies known to have good interfaces like Mac OS there are plenty of graphics very pretty but they keep it under control.

    3. Try to use as many of the standard widgets for your platform. Depending who your platform target audience is, try to make your graphics fit their OS Platform. If you are programming for apple stick to the gray stripes or the brushed metal look (Stripes are easier). In Windows stick to the Blues, Grays, Whites, If XP add some orange in the mix.

    4. Animate for a reason. Animations in a program should help the user follow the flow of the information (Such as a box that needed to get bigger or some extra text inserted) Dont animate for the sake of animation.

    5. Anti Aliasing goes a long way: Make your graphics big then shrink it with anti aliasing turned on. It makes it look like it is not from MS Paint.

    6. A little rounding or making it a little edgier sometimes is all it is needed to make the customer feel that they have a good product. Just take a shape control and give it a curve of 15 make it White with a Black border and put it underneath a group of widgets and they will think it looks super cool.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Programming rules for art. by BlacKat · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A lot of what you have to say is quite valid, unfortunatly...

      "6. A little rounding or making it a little edgier sometimes is all it is needed to make the customer feel that they have a good product. Just take a shape control and give it a curve of 15 make it White with a Black border and put it underneath a group of widgets and they will think it looks super cool."

      That is from the late 80's early 90's UI design... never, ever, use a "shape" control to draw random shapes on a form, window, whatever, unless it's the widget designed to group other widgets.

      Doing so will just make your application look like an uber-cheesy VB3 app... in my humble opinion. :)

  56. There is no "look cool" button by splatterboy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have spent the last 7 years as a painter/graphic artist/art director in NYC and twice a day I have to reply to a non-creative (Account, Copy, Admin etc.) about "why cant I make art look good too". Webster: Art: 1. skill acquired by experience, study, or observation 2. a branch of learning. That doesnt mean you cant do it - you can - but its hard work. You never "get there", but you can certainly get better. Its a continuous process and you will probably feel vaguely uncomfortable for a very long time. Just keep trying to learn and improve. Only a pretentious bastard believes everything they do is a holy nugget (it never is) and you do not want to be one of those. Find and hang out with the kind of people who do what you want to do and learn from them... Take basic drawing and design classes... Most of all, PAY ATTENTION to what you like and learn from it. On the other hand, if its a big professional deal ($$$) and you need the help - hire an artist. We all want to learn and grow but sometimes you need to call in a professional. PIXAR has specialized division of labor - why not you?

    --
    "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." ~The Honorable Daniel Patrick Moynihan
  57. well, if you don't want to group... by Paolomania · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... you could always spend a lifetime multi-classing, but don't go complaining to the DM when you discover that divided XP means you make only half the progress in each of your classes. Who cares how many hit-dice you have if HR is only looking at your class-skills!

  58. For 3D Modelling by Vraylle · · Score: 2, Informative

    I've found Wings 3D to be an easy jump for a programmer to make into 3D modelling, if that's a form of "art" you're after as well. The texturing modes are a breeze also.

    --
    Mutant Freaks of Nature: "Frighteningly Addictive"
  59. Try the works of Dr. Betty Edwards by noctrnl9 · · Score: 2, Informative
    If your current problem is the, "Blank Page" syndrome, you probably should start with the three books of Dr. Betty Edwards:

    • Color
      [just published this past August]
      ISBN:1585422193
    • Drawing on the Artist Within
      ISBN: 067163514X
    • New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain
      ISBN: 0874774241

    I also purchased the following at Linuxworkd NY this year and found it a good read that would be germane to your needs:

    • The Art of Interactive Design
      by Chris Crawford
      ISBN: 1886411840
    Once you have an idea of what you need to illustrate, you should be able to use any application (I recomend using the same Scalable Vector Graphics (SVG) standard used at Open Clip Art because:

    • Adobe is on the SVG Working Group
    • The standard utilizes aspects of Illustrator for rendering the:
    • Edges;
    • Spaces;
    • and Relationships;
    (Read Drawing on the Right Side of the Brian)
    • Aspects of Photoshop for rendering:

    Relationships (yes there is some crossover);

    Lights and Shadows

    Gestalt

  60. The tables are turned by Angerson · · Score: 2, Informative

    As a designer I have exactly the opposite problem. I have a strong foundation in (and teach) graphic design however my programming abilities are limited at best. Essentially I can install and configure scripts but that's about the limit of my abilities.

    Since I own and operate a tiny web design studio (on a shoestring budget) this often leaves me in a bind when it comes to development projects. I can't afford to keep a full time PHP programmer on staff so I'm forced to sub things out on a project per project basis. Even though this work method is prone to failure (my experience has been that development projects are rarely, if ever delivered on time) I know well enough that programming isn't something you can just 'pick up' by reading a book. Like any other trade it requires training, dedication and at least a little bit of skill.

    In my opinion this is the major problem with developers who "design" web sites. They marginalize the actual design of the site as if it's an afterthought (eg. who needs a designer, I have animating clip art!). The truth is, a successful site is a marriage of good design and solid programming. And until you realize that, and accept it, you're belittling all the work involved in either trade.

  61. Steal Ideas by techsoldaten · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One hat I wear is that of a designer. I probably spend about 1 - 2 months out of the year doing artwork for Web sites and applications. I have provided the design work for hundreds (if not thousands) of Web sites and programs in one way or another, as you will see below...

    Steal your ideas, mine have been ripped off more times than I can keep track of and I assure you no one is ever going to be able to do anything about it.

    I see it all the time, some slick looking site based on another designer's ideas, and it hurts bad when it is my own work getting stolen. I have had companies provide me with other people's conceptual sketches (in some cases, sketches from friends of mine that I already know have not been paid for) and ask if I can do the same thing cheaper. I have had people ask me how I pulled off some neat trick in Flash, gone to their email domain and seen my work being copied frame for frame. I have found watermarks in content I made showing up in other people's sites and been told no visual idea belongs to anyone. Originality stopped being a virtue in 1997, why even try?

    You should steal whatever artistic concepts you think you need, cutting and pasting screenshots into Photoshop should be sufficent for any purpose. Intellectual property is a joke unless you have an army of lawyers, and it still costs too much for most companies to come after you unless you are costing them big bucks. Consider buying a scanner so you can steal ideas from magazines and newspapers as well - ESPN the Magazine is a great source of content to lift and maybe it will keep my stuff safe.

    Just put 'Artisitic Genius' on your business card and tell people you are Picasso's evil twin. Go spawn children and steal... uh... 'study' their crayon drawings for use in your work. Carry Silly Putty to lift tattoo outlines directly from people's skin and pass them off as your own. Spend all your time at hotels and pay for your meals by signing them off to other people's rooms. Give up technology and just start mugging people, same thing. Phish.

    If anyone ever calls you on stealing artwork, refuse to acknowledge the 'similarities', tell them to bite you and claim they stole YOUR ideas. If they still bug you, find out their phone number and threaten their families in the middle of the night. It works.

    M

  62. Art tips from a non-artist... by Mustang+Matt · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you're not an artist you're not an artist and you aren't going to crank out beautiful work regardless of how well you learn any software package.

    Here are my tips...
    1. Keep designs simple.
    2. Keep designs consistent.
    3. Don't mix serif and sans-serif fonts. (Debian.org is a great example of what not to do... All the titles are sans-serif and all the text is serif. Download a copy of the page and edit the CSS file to use Verdana for the body text and look at how much better it makes it look.)
    4. Don't do things for the sake of doing them, make sure any layout decisions have some reason behind them.
    5. Find an artist and barter services if you can't afford to hire them.

    --
    The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
  63. Understand the Basics by mtuller · · Score: 2, Informative

    You can go to school for 4 years, as I did, if you want to learn how to draw, paint, and design. But you would do yourself more good if you just take the time to understand the basics. Pickup a design fundamentals book that covers things like the "Golden Section", repitition, framing, etc. The other great thing to learn is the use of color, and color combinations. http://www.pantone.com is a good place to start. You could also pick up a book about color. Other than the basics like these, you would have to spend a lot of time and energy learning and practicing how to draw, that I don't think you are looking to do. Oh. And don't design your website with programmer blue!

  64. wtf, talk about surreal by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Funny

    Only on slashdot will you find a comment titled "have you no decency" that includes the phrase "jacking off into the gimp".

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  65. Re:if you don't have it...HOW TO FAKE IT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    >> #3- Look at other designs, and borrow, borrow,
    >> borrow. Very few people actually create something
    >> original. Just about everything has been done
    >> before, so just borrow away.
    >
    > STEAL, uh, i mean "homage" any image (OBEY ALL
    > PERTINENT COPYRIGHT RULES, AND DON'T "HOMAGE" FROM
    > MAJOR SITES THAT ARE KNOWN TO EMPLOY LOTS OF
    > LAWYERS!!!!!!!!!)

    This kind of attitude really pisses me off (not to mention that it's really, really stupid to suggest "borrowing" or to "homage"). Stealing art is basically the same as stealing code. You must _ALWAYS_ ask for permission. As an artist I can assure you that if I found your companies using my artwork and passing it on as your own then you might be facing a lawsuit. I would hate to resort to legal actions but if you steal my stuff, and haven't been licensed to use it (e.g. artistic license), you'd better be prepared for a bare-knuckle fight.

    I'm telling you this for your own good. Just because it's there doesn't mean you can take it and use it as you see fit because you see, like code, it does belong to someone unless explicitly stated to be public domain. After all, like parent stated -- art is subject to Copyright laws.

    If you asked me for permission and acknowledged me as the artist, however, I would probably be more than happy to accomodate you and grant you permission to use it. It's a matter of pride - please keep that in mind.

    Thanks alot, now I feel dirty for having to spell this out in such a impolite fashion.

  66. You can do it - get creative about the process by BrynM · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Rather than try to gain years of art training and practice in technique to get a creative result, get creative about your method. Decide what you need some art of... This is the hardest part, but you're logical. You can figure it out. The most important part is to decide on your subject and anyone can do that. Let's say a figure on a hill. The only tools you need are Photoshop and a digital camera. Here's a creative method:
    1. Go to the thrift store and buy an action figure you like. Something posable helps to have options.
    2. Find a hill you like. Nuff said.
    3. Point your camera at the hill on a tripod. If you have some way to take a picture without touching it, great.
    4. Place the figure about 18 to 25 inches away from the camera so that it appears on top of the hill in a natural way.
    5. Take a shot with the figure in place and another shot without. Keep the camera as still as possible.
    6. Go home and open the two images in Photoshop.
    7. Select the image with the figure and press CTRL-A to select all. Now CTRL-C to copy (just being thorough). Select the other image and paste (CTRL-C).
    8. Now play. You should have the images in layers one on top of the other. Try fiddling with the opacity, or add a filter or cutout the figure and re-position it. Don't be afrait to try anything - especially blurs! Let people fill in their own detail. Worry about what the image is instead of how detailed it is.
    (Yes, I know this is a classic special effects method. It works well for an example.)

    Some great Photoshop tutorials (and Maya and others too) can be found in Computer Arts Magazine. The tutorials are step by step with great examples to learn from. It's a little pricey here in the US, but worth it for a beginer.

    As to how to make an icon rather than an animated GIF or a JPEG or something else, just look up the spec. Google for "Photoshop icon tutorial" or or "Photoshop animated GIF tutorial". Think of the different file specs as... well, specs. Photoshop can edit pretty much any image type you'll need.

    I tend to do a lot of self contained work (Art, Music, Programming) so I can attest: Anyone can do it themselves.

    --
    US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
  67. get a scanner by flechette_indigo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Do pencil sketches. Scan. Edit and colorize in photoshop. It's the best way I've found. The pencil is still the best tool for what it's good for, and photoshop is the best tool I've found for what it's good for.

  68. James Lipton? by chocolatetrumpet · · Score: 2, Funny

    James Lipton?

    Who knew we had greatness in our midst?

    --
    Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
  69. PovRay? by Yumi+Saotome · · Score: 2, Informative

    This may be redundant, but did anyone suggest trying to learn Povray? It's not that hard to learn, and with it, you can create some amazing images very easily, even if you are terrible at art.

    However, it's a rendering program, so perhaps using it for icons and sprites is an overkill.

  70. A few thoughts by Adam+Wiggins · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm a programmer but having worked in the game industry for many years I grew to know a lot about game art, both on paper (concept sketches and paintings) and on the computer.

    First, it's a skill that can be learned like any other. Sure, some people have a natural talent, and others don't (like me). There are also people who are natural programmers, and they will always be the best at it; but anyone can learn to program if they really want to.

    I've ended up doing tons of stand-in art for games, and a lot of it ended up going into the final game, because it was Good Enough. Usually it was character animations and interface elements, basically the easy stuff, but still - it goes to show you that there isn't as much of a line between the artistically talented and someone who can just learn to work the tools.

    Here's a few random tips from my many years of hanging around with really talented artists as well as my own tinkering:

    Tools - I'm pleased to say that the OSS art tools you can get today for photo art and 3D are as good as or better than their commercial counterparts for many tasks. I've used Photoshop, Maya, 3D Studio Max (and the original 3D Studio, for that matter), and Lightwave in the course of my career, but I find that the Gimp (for 2D) and Blender (for 3D) are today better, or at least as good as, most of the commercial offerings. One thing about this may be that both of these programs are geared more towards programmers-become-artists than pure artists, which may be why I find them more intuative and powerful.

    Color - Color is a huge element. Crappy shapes with a good color scheme actually look pretty good; nice shapes with a crappy color scheme always look bad. Typically you want to combine complimentary colors - purple and gold, for example - in a way that is pleasing to the eye. It can be tricky to get this right, but one trick you can do is use the color wheel in Gimp. Find the first color you are going to use, and then go to the exact opposite side - that's your complimentary color. Note that a muted color (tan, for example) should fill more, proportionately, of the image than its bright complimentary color (red, for example). When in doubt, go look at a nice-looking website and steal their colorscheme.

    Compositing - You can do a LOT by compositing photographs and other existing graphic elements. For example I made the header image for this website by compositing shots I had taken in New Oreans, plus a couple photos from images.google.com eg, Stonehenge in the lower left corner). Using the Gimp's color adjustment tools, scale, resize, rotate, and opacity, you can collage together a bunch of unrelated images and end up with something that looks pretty cool.

    Learn Blender - A great way to make a final image is to create a central element in 3D, and then paste it into an image and edit it up with the Gimp. That's how I did the graphics for this site, for example. Blender is surprisingly easy to learn; this excellent tutorial will have you up and running in no time. I was creating elements usable for compositing in my 2D images in a matter of hours after I started learning it. (Of course, I have a lot of experience using other modelers, so it may take a complete 3D novice longer.)

    Last of all, I will suggest the tried-and-true method for self-teaching yourself almost anything: duplicate! Go find a piece of art that you think is attractive. Study it closely. Pick it apart. Now try to create your own version of the same thing using whatever tools you are trying to learn. The process of taking apart someone else's image will teach you a lot about the elements that experienced creators use.

  71. Check with your local AIGA chapters by Aqua+OS+X · · Score: 2, Interesting

    As for training to become "self sufficient". I'm both a developer and an interactive / graphic designer. Visual communication skills are not something you can simply pick-up. Those of us who are legitimate graphic and interactive designers have spent a LOT of time at universities learning how to solve problems using graphic arts, typography, engineering, psychological research, sociological research, etc etc.

    I don't mean to sound condescending (seriously), but most professional graphic or interactive designers have worked their ass off in order to get where they are. That typically means 60+ hour school weeks in a decent undergraduate program, and or even more grueling training in a graduate program.

    Unfortunately, many in the development field think designers are talented "artists" who can make things pretty. We're not. We're problem solvers who should be helping users to interact with (your) software or multimedia. Moreover, this interaction should be both incredibly functional and emotionally immersive (ie: iPod).

    (this is the part where Slashdot folks respond with "I taught myself and now I'm the head blah bitty blah designer for Company X"... don't listen to those people. Unless they're named David Carson, they probably suck. Worse yet -- they, and or their boss, probably don't realize that they suck.)

    Now... what they hell am I getting at? Well, you could start learning visual communication skills in order to become "self sufficient." However, you're interface design work won't be very good unless you take the time to get some real training..... Or, you could hire a graphic or interactive designer.

    Graphic and or interactive designers can be quite pricey. $35 to $200 per hour. Nevertheless, if you take advantage designers or grad students who are willing to do quality work for cheep (or free), you could be in good shape. Many designers will work for peanuts if you offer them some creative freedom and have a project they would love to include in their portfolio . Sometimes having a cool piece in your portfolio is worth much more then a paycheck.

    If I were you, I would check with your local AIGA chapters ( http://www.aiga.com/ ) or graduate design programs. Look for a talented fresh designer who needs to build up his or her portfolio. Try to get them to do some pro bono work ;)

    --
    "Things are more moderner than before- bigger, and yet smaller- it's computers-- San Dimas High School football RULES!"
  72. Font sources: DaFont.com and CORELDraw by kale77in · · Score: 2, Interesting
    #2- for a lot of projects, you can make good use of objects (boxes, etc) colors, and some good fonts. And if you want free fonts, I highly recommend larabiefonts.com [larabiefonts.com].

    Don't pay for anything until you've spent an afternoon browsing through DaFont -- 4000 free fonts, many of which are worth having.

    Also (and don't laugh!) get any old copy of CORELDRAW, even if the program is for another platform; it's ten years old and will be cheap as dirt. But, it has over a thousand perfectly usable typefaces in TrueType format.

    I'm by no means a professional typographer, just someone with 8+ years of programming and, before that, 8+ years of graphic design, with a strong amateur interest in typography. So I appreciate real fonts, like you'd pay $400 apeice for from a professional font foundry, or the value of a whole spectrum of historically important type families. However, there is enough in these two font sources for almost anyone to get by on the cheap, as I presently do.

    Taking some time (a few hours) to pick a nice sans-serif font (think Arial) for headlines and a complementary serif (think Times) for body text, can very quickly improve any project. By complementary I mean having similar letterforms. Look at the shape of the 'a', 'Q', and 'J' and especially the top of the 't', as well as the overall 'colour' (the density of the text) on the page.

    One combination from the COREL CD that I'm doing a lot of work with at the moment is Context Condensed for headlines, together with Atlantix for body type. But experiemnt for yourself.

  73. Microangelo studio by hennie69 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I'm a developer myself, and often in need of icons. I find microangelo studio (http://www.microangelo.us/) very easy to use. It's also not very expensive (somewhere around 40 bucks for a license) and there's a free trial available.

  74. Photoshop, LightWave, Maya by mwvdlee · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you say you can barely get by with your assignments and don't need to produce high quality artwork, why have you bought expensive licenses for Photoshop ($500-600), LightWave ($1600) and Maya ($2000)???

    You should have just picked up some free or cheap products instead since your not going to use the expensive features anyway, that way you could get along easily and perhaps invest in something you'll actually use.

    I'm assuming you're not making money by using cracked versions of said software, naturally.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  75. Re:if you don't have it...HOW TO FAKE IT by shaitand · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "art is subject to Copyright laws."

    Absolutely and the parent's implication that it is ok to heist it is entirely wrong.

    "does belong to someone unless explicitly stated to be public domain"

    It's this part of your statement that is wrong and this line of thinking must be corrected wherever seen. It's particularly important to correct (even anally so) someone who creates copyrighted works and has this wrong view. When any man creates a work subject to copyright, that work is owned by mankind, not by the man who made it (although the man owns the physical object, that isn't what is subject to copyright)!

    Copyright is the OWNER ie mankind (or the nation on it's behalf) granting you temporary and limited controls by contract for a limited term. It's a way of saying thankyou. You own the copyright, not the material which is copyrighted.

    Your pride you may be entitled to, but it becomes arrogance to think to own the miracle of man's imagination, even the piece of it you bear through life. Human history shows in thousands upon thousands of documented instances that NO idea is unique. You can think something first, but even if you never tell a soul there will plenty of others who form the same thought.

  76. Why not simply... by zeruch · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ...go to someplace like Deviantart.com and seek out artists often willing to do it for you, and in may cases for free?

  77. I'd like to learn martial arts. . . by Fantastic+Lad · · Score: 5, Insightful
    so that I'm really awesome. Only thing is, I don't have the passion or patience to spend the minimum ten-to-fifteen years necessary to become recognizably good. And I certainly don't want to spend the life-time needed to become really, really good.

    Any tips? --I already have my own nun-chucks and expensive cross trainers.


    -FL

  78. From someone who has an art degree by Qbertino · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Having studied and practiced art professionally for 8 years I can say that, just like programming, the essence of making art boils down to about 10 to 20 rules. Yet grasping these rules to the full extend and improving your skills to actually apply these rules usefully is long hard work. A basic tip I'd give is to copy the artists you consider best. The rest follows the usual pure and simple rule:

    There is no secret. Work your ass off.

    And, btw, no amount of powertools will bend that rule. Just as is it is with programming.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  79. Self-sufficient pro prepublisher's tips by MickLinux · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Okay, you want to make art: icons, and such. First, let me point out that I have found no graphics program to be as good or as quick as Deskpaint for the old,old macintoshes, by ZedCor. I think there also used to be a PC version of that program.

    However, you probably can't get a copy of that program any more. So the next best bet is to get a copy of FuturePaint (freeware--do a web search) for Macs. But if you can't do that, get something that is reasonably quick, that can import and export different file types, that can scale graphics and change the number of colors gracefully, and that has some basic drawing tools.

    (Sorry, Linux folks, GIMP just doesn't cut it. Nor do the K apps, which are slow and crash too much.)

    Also, save your work using different file names at every step of the way. It isn't worth the time if you mess something up. Indeed, when I'm doing outlining, I like to save my work several times during that process ... just in case. Don't throw those files away, later, either, or the standardization notes. Archive 'em. You'll perhaps want them later.

    Okay... now, step by step:

    (1) find the dot size (like, 150 dots by 150 dots) of your desired icon. Quadruple that (600 x 600). Note that you'll have to do this whole process 4 times or so, if you have 4 different resolutions for a single icon. Don't skimp, or some of these will look lousy.

    (2) Scan in a picture (a good hand drawing, or something from a magazine) of what you want. If what you want is not available, you can actually arrange picture pieces in a collage, and scan that in. I've done this to avoid copyright problems -- I can be sure that my work doesn't even look like the originals I used, because I cut a leg and turned it, cut an arm and turned that... you get the idea. Anyhow, scan it in so that it appropriately fills your quadruple-size area (600x600, above).

    (3) Lighten the whole picture so that it uses only the 5/16 lightest colors. Now this will be your background.

    (4) Select 2-3 standardized line sizes: for example, 5 pixels wide for outlines, 2 pixels wide for internal detail lines. Don't forget to multiply by 4, because we're working at 4 times the resolution (20, and 8).

    (5) Now, using the line tool on black, draw all those lines with your sketch tool. Outline what you see, and make detail appropriately.

    (6). Now print out what you have, then convert all light grays to white. Do that either by changing the color curves, or by using flood fill judiciously (which I prefer).

    (6) Now, pick your colors. Again, standardize. (when I say standardize, I mean write the standards down on paper, and stick to them). Using lines of the selected colors, isolate patches and then flood fill them.

    (7) You should now have an icon that is 4 times the size/resolution of what you want. Select it, and shrink it down to a quarter size. Your program should be able to handle merging (averaging) colors. If it can't, then save as a 256 color .bmp file, and let your own homebuilt program average sets of 4 colors. At this point, details that looked "not so good" will look better, even great.

    (8) If appropriate, convert to 256 colors, 16 grays, or whatever.

    (8) Retouch as necessary (probably won't be necessary).

    Just as a note, I have found that I like my flood fill colors to always be in the lightest 16th of the palatte, whereas I like my lines to always be black. This makes the icon easy to see and identify.

    Now... all that said... you seem to be having trouble making ends meet. Let me suggest a business website for you:

    http://www.tinaja.com/

    The guy also has an $8 book which is invaluable:
    ___The incredible secret money machine II____

    To the extent which I was able to follow his advice, it created a good business for me (~17000-$30000 a year).

    That said, the level of justice in our country is crashing

    --
    Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
  80. Maya PLE? by DarkMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Maya personal lerning edition is free (as in beer). It looses the plugin capabilities that made Maya an industry standard, and watermarks images, but in terms of seeing if you can pump out useful work with it, that's not an issue (same interface, and most of the same capabilities as full grown Maya).

    I seriously expect that the submitter is talking about Maya PLE, rather than any of the proper versions of Maya in the byline, for more or less the same reasons as the parent - it's too much money otherwise.

    Photoshop is prehaps not too surprising, given that it is often (not completely corretly) considerd _the_ 2D raster packege [0].

    Lightwave is still somewhat anomolus, however.

    [0] Photo's and photorealistic style images it's great for. Icon design, other, simpler packages might be better.

  81. Re:if you don't have it...HOW TO FAKE IT by julesh · · Score: 2, Informative

    I must admit I've never even seen Photoshop, it's much too expensive for me to even consider.

    Second hand copies of out-of-date versions are much easier to get hold of. I find Photoshop 5 does pretty much everything I need. You can find copies on eBay for next to nothing.

  82. That's insightful by Moraelin · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's not just about masking artistic deficiencies. Sometimes the clean minimalistic look is actually the best.

    The dot-com era was filled with clueless PHBs who thought that the user wants an artistic experience. Every single site had to have some horrible colour scheme (e.g., cyan on bright blue, or orange on light orange are actual colour schemes I was asked to implement.) It had to have gradients, 1 MB of animations per page, impossible to read funky fonts, and graphics _everywhere_.

    Turns out that most users _don't_ want an experience. They want a simple an intuitive program that just works, or an easy to use and navigate site.

    I.e., my advice to anyone would be:

    1. Usability and clean layout before funky graphics. Remember that you're making a professional program, not a work of art. The purpose of that interface is functionality, _not_ expressing yourself or evoking feelings.

    This is the main reason why graphics artists are bad web site designers, unless you get them to also learn proper web design. GUI design is a completely different skill from graphics design, and for that matter from programming. (Witness the many excellently programmed OSS programs, that nevertheless have an utter crap UI.)

    2. Keep it simple. For a back button, a simple left-pointing arrow will suffice. For file operations, a 3.5" floppy icon works wonders.

    Basically, if all you need is an icon, do _not_ try to paint the whole Book of The Dead, with the Pharaoh being led into the underworld and judged. You're making an icon, not a fresco.

    3. Keep the learning curve low. If the users have already been educated that symbol X means operation Y, use that. E.g., everyone was already broken in that a left pointing arrow means "back", so use it for that and only for that. Don't try to teach them new tricks just for your program.

    This may seem like a rehash of 2, but really has more to do with 1. It's all about usability. Steep learning curves are bad. Reusing the user's existing skills is good.

    4. Keep it simple.

    4.a. You have precious few pixels in an icon or button, so complex images tend to end up with details that are 1-2 pixels tall or wide. The images must be easy to recognize without squinting to see the details. To that end, for example, a stilized telephone symbol will actually work better than a 3D-rendered anti-aliased phone that's been shrunk to 32x32 pixels.

    4.b. Remember that the role of icons, again, are to allow the user to quickly locate common actions on a toolbar. Again, functionality before artistic expression. They are _not_ there to evoke feelings or express yourself.

    So simple and clear is good in that aspect too. An arrow or a magnifying glass are things that aren't just easy to draw, they're also very easy to recognize and visually locate.

    Etc.

    So basically what I'd argue is that often keeping it simple, abstract and clean is actually the _right_ way, and making it overly artistic is the _wrong_ way. Not being an artist or creative can actually be an advantage.

    Yes, you can't take a programmer and expect him to be able to paint the sixtine chapel. But here's the fun part: you want an UI, _not_ the sixtine chapel. Someone who tries to make a sixtine chapel out of the UI is actually the _wrong_ person for the job.

    --
    A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
  83. Basic Art Tips by dantheman82 · · Score: 2, Informative

    I think getting a basic feel for colors and their significance as well as thought that goes into graphic design would help to create decent amateur art. Another quick and fun way is to buy a digital camera and go crazy with the photography! Your knowledge of perspective, beautiful vs. ugly colors, and a lot of stuff will increase dramatically. I had the Canon A70 and then A75 - both quite reputable 3 MP cameras that had quite a few features to play around with.

    --
    This sig donated to Pater. Long live /.
  84. Vector vs rastor by swerk · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I know folks who do abuse Gimp's or Photoshop's filters and effects, that's another good point. But using a rastor program itself is not the problem and in a lot of cases is a perfectly good solution.

    Use your graphics programs as tools, not factories. Art doesn't come out of a machine, it comes out of you.

  85. Re:So where do you get it? by bigman2003 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Sure-

    Most importantly, find a WORKING artist. Not someone who just considers themselves an artist. Every jackass hipster living in downtown Sacramento thinks they are an 'artist'. That somehow explains the piercings, stupid spiked hair, crappy clothes, crummy apartment, and dead-end job. "Oh he/she isn't a loser, they are an ARTIST". Bullshit- they are a loser with a weak excuse.

    Find one who is actually working. So therefore, don't hang out at clubs/bars/restaurants after about 10:00 on a weeknight, or 12:00 on the weekend. People with jobs actually need their sleep. And if they are WORKING at said club/bar/restaurant, then they are probably a WAITRESS, not an artist.

    So, now that you have cut out 95% of the 'art community' where do we go from there?

    Well, someone with a degree is a good starting point. They were serious enough about art that they spent 4+ years studying- rathing than just relying on the fact that "I've always liked to draw".

    Next- when you meet up with this young and educated hottie, ask her pertinant questions like "what kind of computer do you use". The best, is if they use a Mac, but don't really know a damn thing about it. Remember, you're looking for an artist, not a computer geek.

    So- where do these chicks hang out? (Hopefully not above their waistband).

    Cities like San Francisco and Seattle have big 'designers' conferences of some sort. That is a potential. But then again, they are going to be too overwhelmed to really meet a guy.

    Do what I did- hang out in your company's art department. (You KNOW they have a job) Even if you get 'in' just by lifting heavy boxes, etc. it gives you a reason to stand around. Now, start asking them out to lunch, calling them on the phone (see...they aren't wasting their work time, because it is 'business related') and generally start running into them as much as possible.

    After they get over the fact that a total dork likes them, they'll start to see the advantages of the computer geek. For one, he is EMPLOYED, unlike all of her stupid hipster friends who hang out at clubs every night. For another, he doesn't look ridiculous. The guys who looked cool when she was 20, and in school, are starting to be embarrassing. And, the computer geek probably has a car, unlike her loser friends.

    So there you have it- how to meet an artist.

    --
    No reason to lie.
  86. homage... by circusboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    homage is when you steal from someone who is dead,
    influence is when you steal from someone who is alive,
    plagiarism is when you steal from ME!

    --
    -- it's ridiculous how many people misspell ridiculous... (damn, damn, damn...)