DoCoMo to Use Linux on Phones

highwaytohell writes "News.com.au has an announcement that NTT DoCoMo in collaboration with NEC and Panasonic have developed a Linux based software platform for third generation cell phones. 'The main advantage of the new platform will be easy integration of advanced multi-media applications and efficient use of software,' NEC spokeswoman Akiko Shikimori said." This was first reported about a year ago, but the platform looks to be mostly done by now, and a new press release timed to remind us of its impending release.

Comments

Multimedia

[Anonymous Coward]

The main advantage of the new platform will be easy integration of advanced multi-media applications

I also want this on my Linux desktop.

Re:Multimedia

[fengme]

So am I .

3g?

[Folmer]

Well.. For now i just stick with my 2g telephone, and uses my laptop and wifi for grapping pr0n :)
Also 3g is way outdated.. Docomo is enrolling 4g in 2006, and they are already experimenting with 5g coorporating with my university.
The best use i can see for this is when you connect the phone to a computer, so you can get broadband wherever you are.. (but thats what WiMax was developed for)

Re:3g?

[waynelorentz]

Great. Another fabulous Japanese phone that I can't use anywhere else in the world. When will the Japanese make their phones compatable with the rest of the world?

People on Slashdot complain about the U.S. being isolationist when it comes to cell phone technology. It's worse in Japan.

(BTW: If someone can point me in the direction of a GSM phone that will work in the US, Czech Republic, and Japan, I will be grateful.)

Re:3g?

[Anonymous Coward]

what is this "g" measurement you're using? is there any way to know how much bandwidth is required at each level? wtf.

Re:3g?

[Zorilla]

There is a sort of strange duality when it comes to Japanese isolationism. One one hand, they use a whole lot of standards that match the ones North America uses (Though I'm surprised NTSC works as well as it does on 50Hz power - I've seen TVs run on single cylinder personal generators and the screen wobbles like crazy as the freqency wavers).

However, there's the whole cellphone thing, and not to mention the artificially high prices for traveling - even within the country, it's expensive as hell to ride the bullet train or even drive on the expressway.

This seems to have an effect, as they prefer to keep most of the business within the country. If you're Japanese and emigrate to another country, you have to give up your Japanese citizenship if you gain it in another country.

Re:3g?

[Nexx]

Yes, W-CDMA (DoCoMo and Vodafone's 3G standard) is an isolationist protocol.

Re:3g?

[radio.cgt]

I think it means 'generation', and really only indicates that the network spped got faster/bettter than the last one. I think.

Re:3g?

[jettoblack]

Japan's phones are mostly using the same tech as the USA (i.e. W-CDMA or CDMA2000, at least in those areas which have upgraded)... just on different frequencies. This is because many of the frequencies used by US phones were already allocated for other uses in Japan. Its the same reason why the US's GSM network is 1.9GHz and the rest of the world's GSM is 1.8GHz (I think... might have that backwards).

But no worry... you can now buy a number of phones that work on 3G in Japan, and both GSM variants for the US/rest-of-world.

Re:3g?

[Ben Hutchings]

As I heard it, NTT deliberately chose frequency bands for their own PDC cellular system (used by DoCoMo and TuKa) that would clash with both GSM and IS-95 (CDMA) in order to protect domestic manufacturers and their own control of telephony. The Japanese government, being the largest shareholder of NTT and somewhat inclined to protectionism, went along with this. Japan did get IS-95 (CDMA) networks (J-Phone/Vodafone and AU) but they use a different frequency from the rest of the world. This protectionism made it difficult for Japanese manufacturers to sell to the rest of the world, so when it came to 3G NTT didn't try anything of this sort. DoCoMo is using UMTS (the 3G successor to GSM) though as early adopters I believe they made some quick fixes to it that make it slightly different from European implementations.

Cheering for the good side

[CrazyJim1]

I'm all for cheering on Linux. Its nice to see short term points though Linux is definately the choice for the long term game.

Re:Cheering for the good side

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no 'a' in 'definitely'

Re:Cheering for the good side

[Anonymous Coward]

If that's God speaking with you... You need a serious reality check.

You expect anyone to believe that the bible that they're using in your old church, the one your father works at, you've never heard of. Worse yet, it's one of the more common bibles, you seem them in MANY churches.

I'm sure God could have picked better ways than those two words to communicate.

Re:Cheering for the good side

[Anonymous Coward]

That's rediculous.

So just like current phones. But with Linux?

[Kenja]

I see nothing here that my current Nokia cant do. Is Linux realy that much better a choice then Symbian? Windows and PlamOS I'll grant you due to the whole stylus problem.

'The Main Advantage'

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the main advantage will be that when NTT stops supporting these phones, the community can.

Assuming they're down with the GPL.

Re:'The Main Advantage'

[Anonymous Coward]

"Down with the GPL"? If they're a typical embedded Linux developer, they probably shout that all the time...

Re:'The Main Advantage'

[Tony Hoyle]

Not really.

They don't have to supply source if they don't modify the kernel (I'd dearly love to get inside the but the linux kernel inside it is heavily protected and you can't get anywhere near it..

Unless you know the hardware specs of the phone already you aren't going to be able to get a kernel on there... be prepared to brick a few dozen trying.

Re:'The Main Advantage'

[Kusunose]

I don't think so. Surely they will release
the source code of the modified kernel. But they
probably won't release the entire source code;
they won't publisize how to update the
firmware either.

It's phone. You can't expect you can modify
the communication system arbitrary becasuse its
compliance to the standard must be officially certificated.

So what you can do? You can't fix bugs yourself.
That must be done by the manufacturer. Once
they abondon the device there is nothing you can do.

Re:'The Main Advantage'

[Tony Hoyle]

Should have looked more recently (the box has been on a shelf for 6 months).

Last time I asked they said they'd ban me from the forums if I asked again... it seems like someone has pointed their lawyer to the GPL and they've released source recently.

Re:'The Main Advantage'

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the main advantage is the Access software running on top of the phone which is in no way open source or free.

The kernel sucks according to just about any review of the device, and the device functionality really sucks in side by side comparisons with other 900-series phones. Bad response times and slow loading were the two biggest issues, the others were lack of features mostly when compared to other 900-series phones.

The problem, according to the NEC engineers I've talked to is that the Linux kernel interrupt handling is simply not well tuned for devices that need really fast switching and still need to be able to have fast network I/O and filesystem I/O. Too much latency, which is where the complaints about response times and general slowness come in.

This is also why the NEC 900-series phones are now the weakest sellers, whereas they were the best selling FOMA phones when they first came out. A pretty package can't make up for an incorrect choice in operating systems.

Yes but...

[dfn5]

Does it support Ogg Vorbis?

Pine?

[Doc Ruby]

How about a project that emulates PalmOS on Linux? A Linux phone that runs PalmOS apps could eat the lunch of both Palm AND Windows smartphones. Not only would the phone add that many more apps to its offerings to consumers (interesting more of them), but lots of those apps are a lot more friendly to users than Linux apps, as they were developed for small mobile devices. Rather than let PalmOS get crushed by the Windows phone onslaught, let's sacrifice it to the greater glory. Everyone wins but Microsoft. If we're already running Wine, and GBA, how hard could a PalmOS API port be?

Re:Pine?

[Greyfox]

You mean like this?

That thing's been around forever. That's the nice thing about Linux -- you think "Gee wouldn't it be nice if FOO" and when you look, FOO has been around forever.

Re:Pine?

[Doc Ruby]

That POSE seems cool, though I can't tell if it will emulate PalmOS5, to say nothing of (upcoming) PalmOS6, or even PalmOS4. Also,

"in order for you to use POSE to actually emulate a Palm device, you need a ROM image"

You can get the images from your Palm device, or from joining ($) the Palm developer program.

BTW, one of the nice things about Slashdot -- you post "gee wouldn't it be nice if FOO", and when you look, someone has posted "FOO. And 100 other random monkeys have posted BAR.

Re:Pine?

[Eric Giguere]

I suspect that he means make a version of the Emulator (or the newer Simulator) that is more tightly integrated with the system I don't think you'd necessarily want a Palm device to suddenly appear on your screen, I think you'd want Palm applications to work seamlessly with the other applications on the system. Interesting thought, for sure, and definitely a challenge. The main obstacle would be a legal one, not a technical one -- getting the ROM images to install in the emulator/simulator. Doubt PalmSource would let you do it without actually licensing the OS.

Eric
Palm Database Programming -- The Free Electronic Version

Re:Pine?

[BenjyD]

POSE requires a Palm ROM to run and doesn't support PalmOS 5 or greater. It's also very slow and buggy (on Linux, at least).

So much for Ballmer

[RealAlaskan]

So much for Ballmer's threats. Maybe Microsoft will be the next litigious bastards?

Q: How can you tell the Titanic is sinking?
A: They keep rearranging the deck chairs, and reassuring us that the ship is too big to sink.

Re:So much for Ballmer

[Greyfox]

I'm pretty sure Ballmer was bluffing. Talk is cheap, so I think Microsoft will just quietly fold rather than risk another monopoly fine in China or Japan. If they were serious about it, they'd go after IBM.

Gaah, been watching too much poker on Bravo lately...

Re:So much for Ballmer

[Tough Love]

I'm pretty sure Ballmer was bluffing. Talk is cheap, so I think Microsoft will just quietly fold rather than risk another monopoly fine in China or Japan. If they were serious about it, they'd go after IBM.

Get flattened by IBM you mean. It's a practical certainty that IBM has enough patents in its war chest to put Microsoft right out of business, should Microsoft be stupid enough to fire the first shot.

Apple Cell Phone?

[Anonymous Coward]

I want an "iPhone", goddamnit. All the other gadgets in my life are made exclusively by Apple, except my cell phone! Come on Apple: I WANT AN APPLE CELL PHONE!

Re:Apple Cell Phone?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean like this? http://www.motorola.com/mediacenter/news/detail/0, ,4505_3838_23,00.html Bickety Bam!

Multi-media apps?

[PMJ2kx]

I use my phone for making phone calls, not watching movies. How many people do YOU know who need "multi-media applications" on a phone? Not trying to be a troll hree, but seriously, is it a practical application of technology, or a mere technology/fashon fad? Someone please convince me (Joe Schmoe) why I need it.

Re:Multi-media apps?

[totallygeek]

I agree. I need a phone so I can answer the phone and call out on the phone. I don't need crappy games, crappy web browsing, and crappy music. I need my toaster to do some of these things, though.

Want a Job With Google?

Re:Multi-media apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

do you get out much? if yer on the move and bored to death in what yer doing, why not have something to "entertain" you? it's either that, or a 4lb notebook

Re:Multi-media apps?

[BrookHarty]

I use my phone for making phone calls, not watching movies. How many people do YOU know who need "multi-media applications" on a phone?

Humm, I was watching real-tv news on my phone at lunch while I waited for my meal, also watched the news in a waiting room this week.

During my boss's meeting I was browsing CNN news and local news.

I did it, because I could. I also have SMS pages, and email pictures I take on the phone.

Connect via Bluetooth for my wireless headset.

Depends on your job, but the phone also has video conferencing so I can see servers and cable wiring remotely, comes in handy when we have smart hands (techs working on misc hardware).

I use it, most people at my work use it. OF course I work for a telco, and we have lots of cool phones. ;)

Re:Multi-media apps?

[el_munkie]

Not trolling either here, but I know of at least one person who got some use out of a multimedia phone. This girl I went out with once had an pointlessly expensive phone that was video-capable. She had video of herself blowing some dude on her phone. This was more of a turn-off to me than anything else (I didn't go out with her again), but documenting sexual escapades would certainly qualify as a use for multimedia apps.

Re:Multi-media apps?

[maggard]

I'm not gonna try and convince you, I'm not entirely convinced myself.

On the other hand I'm addicted to using my PocketPC to read books, especially in bed or en route. I've got a half dozen on it at any time (right now I'm halfway through Ben Bova's so-so "Moonbase 1" potboiler.)

And to listen to audio books (Jon Stewart's "America", up to Ch. 11.)

And podcasts (none today.)

And yes, I've usually got a movie or TV show stored on it to watch - decent quality and great for filling wait time (from last night it's "UFO", episode 5.)

I've also got an album or two of mp3s on it (today K. D. Lang's "Hymns of the 49th Parallel".)

I've also got pix of recent trips & good friends to share. (From a dinner conversation last weekend: "Which Stéphane? You know, Big Stéphane. No, that's Fuzzy Stéphane, I mean b-i-g Stephane... Oh heck,[click][tap][tap] This Stéphane! Yeah.")

Plus an RSS reader full of interesting things to keep up with.

All of these could just as well be done on a phone.

Indeed on any hunk of modern portable technology with a decent screen and enough storage, some reasonable amount of processing power, would suffice. The point is lots of folks already carry cell phones around with 'em so why not go that extra 20% and build this functionality into 'em?

Sure you may not want it. Or you may not realize you want it. Or you may never have any need for these features.

But consumer demand appears strong, this appears to be a profitable direction to the carriers & cell phone manufacturers, so where's the huhu? We can still buy (heck, at this point they're about free) a simple no-frills phone so no loss there.

But yeah, at least for me, I'm interested in someday moving to a feature-phone. For now I'll stick with my ancient super-reliable StarTac and last-generation PocketPC but in a year or two, with a bit more maturing, I could see morphing 'em into a unified package of tele-conferencing/multimedia entertainment/handy-dandy reference source with Web/IM/RSS/GPS (m-o-u-s-e-!)

Heck, with 2 GB SD cards coming down in price so fast I'm tempted to get one just to have a portable copy of Wikipedia on hand.

So Joe Schmoe - there may not be a compelling reason. 'Course, could say the same thing about an iPod too. Or camera phones. Or text messaging. Or a computer in every house. Or high-speed internet.

Guess we'll find out.

Re:Multi-media apps?

[frankvl]

Is Joe Schmoe working for a telco?? I think not!

At most, he'll need to check when the burgers have to be flipped.

Re:Multi-media apps?

[Cato]

I use the Internet on my mobile phone all the time, for general surfing etc, and it would be handy to be able to view movie trailers on it as well when deciding which movie to rent (or get on-demand from satellite TV). Multimedia is not something I do a lot of on PCs either, but occasionally it's fun or simply convenient.

Re:Multi-media apps?

[gullevek]

think japanese.

As a western person you want a phone to phone people. A phone here in japan is:
- video
- digital camera
- portable game device
- web browser
- etc etc

The mobile phone here is like a PDA already. And DoCoMo wants to get something to compete gainst eg the Sony PSP ...

Re:Multi-media apps?

[jilles]

Well given the choice between a phone that can do just voice calls and a a phone that can do a lot more, customers buy the latter. From the point of view of phone manufacturers it's quite clear where the money is.

But you are right, most phones are just expensive toys used mostly for sending text messages and calling other people. I have a very old, unfashionable one which does just that and is light and reliable too.

Re:Multi-media apps?

[wuice]

Hey now, what's wrong with fads? Especially if you're filthy rich and can buy it just because? :)

Re:Multi-media apps?

[tsa]

She had video of herself blowing some dude on her phone.

She must have some big psychological problems. I mean, how sick must you be before doing such a thing. And she showed it to you too! Shocking.

Re:Multi-media apps?

[Abberlaine]

You've got to understand that in Japan, the keitai (the web-enabled cellphone) is not just a product, but rather a phenomenon that has given rise to its own user-culture of "thumb tribes" -- eighty percent of the people 1,500 people who walk across Shibuya Crossing at every light change carry a mobile phone. Japan's primary cellular network service was reengineered in the mid-90's to a digital model that freed up so much bandwidth that it left the company with the challenge of coming up with new services that consumers would be willing to pay for. Their target market, primarily young women, were not already Internet users through desktops and PCs; furthermore, the kind of web content that would appeal to this particular demographic was not as readily accessible as it is today. Knowing this, the company opted to actually sell people content such as horoscopes and dating sites rather than advertise keitai as an explicitly technological product. This, in turn, allowed keitai to be viewed as the kind of fun, convenient, and easy-to-use product that can be flipped out of your pocket and used any day, any time, anywhere. The product was a success, because, as one of its designers notes, "Our time is so limited. During the few minutes of waiting for someone or a train, people loved being able to do something - and so much - in that tiny space of time." Hence, while you might use your phone strictly for making voice calls, the advent of new technologies like miniaturized cameras or video streaming only further the ability of the keitai to carry out its particular purpose.

Ultima 4!!! rock on!!

[x5061756C]

heh... hope you enjoy that, no mod points... just established this account (lost my old one due to not using it at work... don't want my MS based company to know too much about my *nix background)... who knows, they'd probably fire me for not being a windows fan... just a windows tech :)

Software? Or hardware?

[DocMax]

The article suggests that one of the main targets here is to accommodate third-party developers in creating multimedia applications for the handset device. (I'll leave the "should we?" argument on that one for another day.) Decent quality multimedia on a handheld, however, is generally best obtained by utilizing the on-handset chips (e.g., MPEG-4 decoders) rather than "advanced software."

Unless handset manufacturers start standardizing on the chipsets (which I'm sure they'd all be happy to do... provided that they got a cut of the chipset sale), does Linux have benefits here that another OS doesn't?

They could call the media player:

[Anonymous Coward]

They could call the media player:

3G's NTT-DoCoMo/NEC/Panasonic Kmplayer-Mobile Lite Edition for GNU/Linux mobile, and so on, and so forth

(This isn't even remotely funny, but I'm going to hit submit anyway.)

rather Linux + phone

[Doc Ruby]

1> No licensing fees to Symbian
2> More existing apps, most of them networked, run on Linux
3> Giant developer community, free dev tools, lots of them
4> Buzzword compliance

This is good for Linux (the OS, not just the community), especially. They'll add stylus features that we can use on our desktops (and supercomputers, too, if that's your bent). Though we need not use them, just as we can use Linux with CLI or GUI. Personally, I'd prefer to repalce my mouse (trackball, really) with a stylus (my finger, really), using my keyboard only for fast data entry and email, or just when I feel like it. Linux is the OS that can be that flexible. I'd love to plug the phone into my x86 Linux box USB and use it with the bigger form factor of the bigger box and its peripherals.

Re:rather Linux + phone

[hkultala]

.. and
5> much better developement tools
6> easier API's and libraries
7> better documentation

Symbian is really pain in the ass for developers.

Build system documentation tells how to compile hello world but there is no documentation that helps to understand it if you want to do more things than just compile C/C++ files during your build process.

And the build tools are bunch of windows .cmd scripts and perl scripts wrapped together, and a few symbian's own exe files doing some binary conversion things. total mess.

All API's are done very differently than on all other platforms. For example there are things like 7 different string classes for more efficient memory usage.
And even "hello world" program requires 4 classes.

Re:rather Linux + phone

[Anonymous Coward]

Was going through some abld perl stuff...

They use a very strange system of using Perl's open command to pipe the output of the build system into a temporary variable that they then use to check for errors. This has the side effect that NO status output is displayed during the build process until it gets to the end. The pipe traps all the strings until the command completes. I rewrote it to use backticks and capture the output into a temporary array, and it works just fine still.

If you ever take a walk through the Symbian build system sources, it's a mess. It's like they obfuscated the code for no reason at all.

Scriptable phones

[RedFireGuy]

Emacs jokes aside, what would be really nice is to have some scripting language backing these phones so I could have the phone be a little smarter about fr'instance when to interrupt me.

(def ring-loud-p (caller)
"Checks whether the phone should ring LOUD"
(if (and (eq 'girlfriend caller)
(> 10 (getAmbientNoiseLevel))
t
nil)) )
--

Re:Scriptable phones

[jacksonj04]

Agreed there. This kind of logic is something most phones miss (and those that have it have a bad implementation of the idea). But do phones really have enough use for a scripting engine?

Re:Scriptable phones

[razasis]

This is a little off topic, but related to your post. Does anyone know if there are any phones that change the order of words you get using predictive text input based on how often you use them? For example, "home" and "good" are both 4663 - if I use "home" a lot more than "good", I want it to come up with "home" first.

Does such a thing exist?

Would anyone like to implement it, patent it and give me free phones for life?

Re:Scriptable phones

[Anonymous Coward]

Many Japanese cell phones already do this (e.g. my NTT Docomo N504iS) so I doubt you can get a patent on it.

Re:Scriptable phones

[lachlan76]

I'd write one under the condition that I never, ever, ever, have to see that scripting language again ;)

Why not?

[F'Nok]

The phone is becoming the portable 'thing' you have with you. I know I like to watch some TV on train, take a photo or video snap and send it to a mate (especially helpful when giving directions), and lets face it... Without a dose of neopets while in the doctors waiting room, I'd get much more irritated than I do. :)

Are they useful?
For some, probably not the majority.

But it's still a good thing. :)

The worst that can happen is you don't use the features, or buy a vanilla phone. No harm.

The advantage to linux on phones

[commodoresloat]

I hear the DoCoMos will give you a command line that can be activated by voice. So when you call your friend you can really mess with their heads by saying "arr emmm arrr efff star"

Let me clarify...

[x5061756C]

I'm working as an MCP right now so I can't be too open of my support of Linux or BSD (VSB, ESB and whatever gates called it at the last economic conference where he spread his FUD)

anyways... my own mother, whom most would know as a computer "ok" person but not a power user... has not only figured out that she was using SOLARIS at work... BUT to top it off, she loves firefox and if I migrate her over to linux th eonly thing she'd miss is quickbooks to run her business... and I think if I write the application myself, I'd need help from a few tax guys... anyone interested?

I want it to be SOX compliant too... and my work would be pro bono, all code offered free of charge... for downloads... but my pipes here are pathetic...

(you'd pay for cds and support, updates are free, but as a microsoft tech, i can't do anything but develop... anything else is seen as "evil" by the imperator Gatos (my turn to mangle his name))

I want to make it something clean and simple... embedded CSS plus apache plus php and postre or mysql (for those willing to use it) or even berkeleyDB

ideas?

oh and please recall ./config no-rc5 no-idea if you're compiling openSSL for a commercial environment that you expect will get sued by the RSA or Micro$oft...

Lates. I'm off to work on Gentoo.

Re:Let me clarify...

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds good, lets get a sourceforge project pronto.

YIPE COFFEELESS TYPO... POSTGRE!!

[x5061756C]

oops

Wrong Question

[somethinghollow]

It's supposed to be...

"Yes... but does can it run Linux?"

:P

Yay

[CdBee]

At last I can get my Mozilla Thunderbird email onto a mobile device, albeit by porting Thunderbird to it...

Linux - secure telephony?

[mwilliamson]

Ok, this is the PERFECT opportunity to introduce and deploy SSL to the telephony world. OpenSSL could first be used to secure (and authenticate) mobile to mobile traffic, then mobile to wireline and even wireline to wireline via inexpensive linux-based SSL "adapters" that could go between your POTS jack and telephone(s). The telephony world could use a good dose of end-user-empowering crypto.

Neat!

[rares]

This "impending release"... would that be at the end of this or next decade in the US?

DoCoMo Money! Mo Money!

[blueZhift]

That's a sweet lookin phone, but I think DoCoMo's primary motivation is to keep the cost of the phone down. Using Linux goes a long way towards lowering the cost, which means mo money for DoCoMo! It also means they have a very flexible platform on which to base future phones. If you make your money selling OS licenses for low end devices like cell phones, cameras, and PDAs, Linux is going to make your life a living hell!

Re:DoCoMo Money! Mo Money!

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it has less to do with lowering costs; I hear WinCE licenses are quite low these days. It probably has more to do with not wanting to rely on a sole software supplier who may eventually become a direct competitor. If NTT DoCoMo relied on M$ SmartPhones, who's to say those phones won't tend to work better with M$N Japan vs NTT's own OCN ISP? Another example is the M$ XBox directly competing with the Sony PS/2. It should be no surprise that Sony was one of the founding members of CELF:
http://www.celinuxforum.org/

Yes, the N900i

[Anonymous Coward]

Too bad that it got almost universal bad reviews for it's slow response time, lack of features, and general bugginess.

OTOH, the form factor was awesome and really put it at the head of the pack for the 900i series. Word on the street is that Linux won't be back for Panasonic after this, though. Too much trouble for not enough benefit. Add to that that the Access mobile suite is fitted more for other operating systems like T-Engine and OSE rather than Linux, this seemed look like a good idea at the time, but now it looks like a money pit.

Panasonic will not be coming out with new Linux phones in the future after P900is. Bank on it.

You will see more of this.

[Bruha]

As companies are forced to squeeze more and more to make good profits they will trim whatever fat there is. Linu and Tron are both viable alternatives to WinCE or other proprietary embedded systems. And Tron is the biggest success in that field. The guy that invented it, if he had charged 1 cent per copy used he would be a billionaire a few times over by now. I doubt that any house lacks one device that may be powered by Tron.

I interviewed over to work on that.

[John Sokol]

But I was under NDA so I couldn't talk about it.

Seems like a good Idea, but only if it's done right.

FOMA, DoCoMo’s 3G services is growing rapidly

[3yen]

DoCoMo has over 7.3 million FOMA (3G) subscribers. 5.3 million 900i phones are already sold this calendar year. Plus, Panasonic and NEC are among the most popular brands in Japan. This is very good news for the Linux community.
More at: http://wireless.3yen.com/

Linux benefits

[Anonymous Coward]

Standard driver interface no what ever the chipset is. Ie program might need to be recomplied from source but the same source code most of time will work on all platforms.

Ie simpler for programmers.

Many multimedia libs take plugins for different hardware to get best performance. Most cases closed source drivers are allowed. Ie I use X processor with hardware Y with standard libs(what manufaturers have to decide on) and friend has X processor with Z hardware with standard libs both machines most likely can use the same binary with no changes.

I have a PPC machine but I have a Intel binary if PPC is a bigger processor I can still run the program threw a wrapper layer ie most of the standard api gets used just corrections on the difference and the platform is being faked.

All these things can be done inside linux.

Ie linux does not force Standardizing of chipsets. Whatever chipset you like as long as the newer ones are more powerful. This creates a upgrade setup new chipsets can run old program but old chipset cannot run new programs yet nothing has changed in the api so old programs can be recomplied to take advantage.

The makers control the upgrade system not a outside third party.

Hmm xine and mplayer(this is mplayer not media player) on a mobile phone little bit of a scarry thought. They both run well with a 650 athlon chip and 512 megs of ram and alright at 256 megs of ram. Advantage xine and mplayer will run if hardware is there or not just the person who did to by a phone with enough hardware get a bad picture ie marketing you want good video playback you will buy up the line.

No standard chipsets also is a software developers best friend ie I by a new mobile phone I will have to rebuy my software to get best peformace.

Basicly if there development teams can see we can get more speed or save power by changing X in the hardware they can no matter where it is. Now a closed source GUI/OS I want to change X in the processor mind kindly changing the source so it works and the company says no you are stuck. With linux you just get someone to change the source.

Security

[Positive Charge]

I don't imagine they'll have much luck selling a completely open-source cell phone in the US because it's difficult to incorporate secret law enforcement features into them.

I want one now. And a vocoder module with strong encryption.

Yeah...

[midnightblaze]

...but do they run Linux?

No one cares about Palm anymore...

[Cryptnotic]

Someone's going to think I'm a troll, but PalmOS is really far behind. They developed originally for the low-end hardware systems with slow CPU, no MMU, and very little RAM (e.g., 128kbytes) for OS, applications and user data. This worked well for shoehorning usable applications (datebook, calendar, mail, et cetera) into tiny devices. However, PalmOS is now being asked to do things for which it was never designed.

Modern devices have fast CPU's (600MHz XScale) lots of RAM (128MB), external storage (e.g. Flash cards), and network access. If you're ever written programs for PalmOS, you'll know that the API's and development is kind of strange (everything is "Execute in Place" for example). New things like sound, network access, file IO, multi-tasking, et cetera were all added in a rather cludgy way. Linux and Windows CE handhelds work much more like "little desktop machines". As a result, they are much easier to develop for.

Re:No one cares about Palm anymore...

[Lally Singh]

Hence Cobalt.

Re:No one cares about Palm anymore...

[Cryptnotic]

It's too little too late, and everyone knows it. There aren't even any Cobalt (PalmOS 6.1) devices announced. Aparrantly there have been licensees of PalmOS 6 since December 2003, but no devices have been shipped. That's an indication to many including me that the OS is not ready for use in an actual product. It could be the integration/emulation layer for old PalmOS programs. It could be the new desktop synchronization software. It could be the stability of the OS itself. It could be a lot of things, but it's been a serious enough problem that no one has shipped a product with it yet. PalmOne's own Tungsten T5 was rumored to be shipping with Cobalt installed, but now it seems that even they have gone with PalmOS 5.4.

Re:No one cares about Palm anymore...

[Doc Ruby]

21% of new PDAs sold last year were to new Palm users, and the numbers are bigger on smartphones. The year before, the numbers were twice as big. Clearly these millions of users care about using the apps they already understand, and keeping new ones similarly simple. Palm market share might have taken a hit this year, with next year's growth unpredicted, but it's far, far from "dead". Even if the OS vendor were to disappear, that's even more benefit to a PalmOS execution environment on Linux.

The original Palms (one of which I got) had 1MB, as I recall. Their small resources forced a very tidy interface that's easy to understand and use, more a peripheral than a computer. That's been the key to its success.

New Palms have 400MHz CPUs, GB SD cards and big RAM, and WiFi/Bluetooth/3G WLAN/PAN/WAN networks. The humble genesis of the PalmOS, and its continuing small form factor, bring with it a vast, unsophisticated user base which is impatient with any real complexity, any "gadget for its own sake" geekiness. That's why I'd like to see a PalmOS emulator, so Linux can run PalmOS apps (old and new) as a kind of "PDA desktop" mode. That will bring the strengths of Linux to PDA development, as well as the heritage of sharp little personal utils to Linux. A great mix. Something along the lines of the Linux binary API mapping interface for NetBSD, but for PalmOS on Linux, ought to be perfect. Since PalmOS is a slightly extended subset of Linux features, it should be feasable, even if not trivial.

Re:No one cares about Palm anymore...

[Cryptnotic]

Try this.

http://www.palmos.com/dev/tools/emulator/

It's open source too. You'll need a device ROM, which you can either download from your device using a program that you load onto it or you can download a developer ROM from the PalmOS developer site.

This emulator is what PalmOS developers use to test and debug their applications before loading them onto actual devices.

As an aside, I do own two PalmOS devices: An old Palm III and a relatively new Sony Clie TJ25 with Japanese PalmOS. Japanese Decuma is awesome, by the way. I looked into developing an application for learning/practicing/quizzing Japanese and I've started to write it twice. Each time though, I get a bit past the "hello world" app before stopping. There's a huge paradigm shift when doing PalmOS development. Instead of creating windows, you have "forms" that are resources linked into the program. The biggest thing is that the data structures are different. You can't just have a "file" on a PalmOS device. This is VERY different from systems like Linux and *BSD where everything is a file (including memory, devices, files, et cetera). All data needs to be stored in database-like structures (except of course, for some extensions added in later versions of PalmOS to deal with memory cards). Anyway, it's very weird. The API is nothing like Linux or Windows.

Wow, all that kernel traffic got to my head

[oliverthered]

"They have developed a Linux-based software platform for third-generation (3G) mobile phones. The platform is an achievement of their joint development efforts since their alliance was formed in August 2001. The two companies have been collaborating in developing software platform and application software for 3G mobile phone handsets.", And I thought it was linux et all

Are you on crack?

[kryonD]

"When will the Japanese make their phones compatable with the rest of the world?

People on Slashdot complain about the U.S. being isolationist when it comes to cell phone technology. It's worse in Japan."

No it's not!! What universe have you been living in? DoCoMo has been trying to get into the American market for years. It's our own fault for pressuring our government to impose high import tarrifs so we can hold our heads high buying 2nd gen crap "made in the USA". Why in God's green Earth would the Japanese want to downgrade their phones to be compatible with "the rest of the world". As it stands, DoCoMo's i-Mode technology is spreading quite well in parts of Europe, China, and Korea.

Also, I know for a fact that AU (I think Vodafone bought them last year) has a phone that is capable of roaming pretty much anywhere in the northern hemisphere. I'm also fairly certain that DoCoMo offered a phone with those capabilities, but I had no desire to pay the extra mony and just stuck with my D505i which STILL blows away most of the phones here in the US, even though it's 2nd Gen 2G tech in Japan. I plan on returning to Japan in 2 years and I guarantee my first act after finding a place to live will be to re-acquire a real phone.

Calling Japan isolationist when it comes to cell phones is like calling Italy isolationist when it comes to Lasagna. If you already produce the best in the world, what exactly do you need to import?

Re:Are you on crack?

[Dancin_Santa]

Vodafone bought J-Phone which was essentially a second-rate cellphone service over there. With the partnership, though, VOD is pushing some pretty serious upgrades and is adapting the European market to be more like the Japanese keitai market.

In Europe, you define your phone by the device maker. Nokia, Seimens, etc. They define what the phones will be and how they will function. The operators are along for the ride. Whereas in Japan, the phone is defined by the operator. DoCoMo, Au (KDDI), Vodafone, etc. The operators define at the high level what they expect in a feature set and the device makers (D505 is Mitsubishi, for example) have to design their phone to meet the market level. The DoCoMo 505i level was the last of the Mova 2.5G line and pretty full featured. Every 505i phone was required to have a certain minimum spec.

Operators in Europe have always been at the whim of the device makers precisely because it is the device makers who are providing the operators with the equipment to run their networks. So Orange buys its tower equipment and software from Nokia and Seimens and spends all its time trying to make sure that things work together. Because of this, moving a phone from one operator to another is pretty easy, just switch out the SIM. However, the functionality between two different devices is very different. The operators are not capable of specifying to Nokia (for example) a common set of baseline requirements for that operator's phones. Nokia markets its phones for a wide range of operators and can't really be bothered to bow to the demands of one.

This is where the VOD thing comes in. Taking a cue from the Japanese market, VOD has made itself huge. It is currently the #1 cell phone operator in the world, about triple the customer base of DoCoMo. With this power, it is finally demanding that device makers design to their spec rather than delivering whatever they'd like. This has always been the case in Japan where the operators have been the dominant power and device makers have been anxious to be accepted by the operators. It also means the end of operator switching, unfortunately, but considering that the price of a new cell phone in Japan is 1 yen (free with rebate), the future looks bright for the European market.

The American market is a huge clusterfuck, of course, just like how it is with every other worldwide standard-led technology. American's are happy with their Zack Morris phones which are workable for calls but nothing else. So the world leaves them alone. But, like as in the past, eventually they will come on board and pick up the best of the winning technologies and be up to par with the rest of the world.

not multimedia phone. Think PDA that makes calls.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the merger of the PDA and the mobile phone.

Soon geeks will have one less thing to carry.

This is the most retarded comment evar

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll add stylus features

No they won't. The touch screen is not even available on the Microsoft Smartphone where it would be totally at home. Of all the cell phone operating systems out there, only Symbian provides a touch screen, no one else does. No cell phone in Japan has a touch screen. It's not a useful feature on a phone.

Also, the reason Linux doesn't have a touch screen driver is because you are a complete and utter moron. A touch screen driver is fundamentally the same as a mouse driver and there are plenty available. Why, in fact, there are touch screens available that have Linux drivers! Imagine that with your pea-sized brain.

we can use Linux with CLI

Right. On a cell phone.

Hey, planet Earth is calling, you're a blithering idiot.

Linux is the OS that can be that flexible

Yeah, I guess Symbian, iTron, and EVERY OTHER embedded operating system isn't "flexible". Were you born this dumb or did it takes years of practice?

Re:This is the most retarded comment evar

[oliverthered]

I think he meant gesture selection and handwriting recognition, which my mouse isn't up to, but my graphics tablet is.

Re:This is the most retarded comment evar

[shaitand]

'Yeah, I guess Symbian, iTron, and EVERY OTHER embedded operating system isn't "flexible".'

I realize your being sarcastic, but from what I've heard, alot of them aren't, particularly Symbian.

"we can use Linux with CLI

Right. On a cell phone."

Agreed, a geek might like to be able to perform and emergency ssh session to send a hup to restart a service on a server while on vacation. Other than that I can't see it mattering much, except perhaps on a development system that isn't really a cell phone (since linux abstracts the hardware), where it might be easiest to develop certain parts of an application using linux's powerful cli development tools, or where it's easiest to feed parameters in the cli to test functions.

The biggest advantage is in development. With linux the hardware is abrastracted by the kernel, this means that existing libraries and codebases can be used with no or little modification in many cases. It's also nice for security, as phones are more often connected to the web, we introduce the possibility of phones being hacked, possibly notes read, recordings listened to, images on picture phones viewed, who knows, maybe even calls made. Since most components are open source and used in everything from watches to super computers to NASA's Cluster of supercomputers security fixes are routinely available... with symbian you would likely be vulnerable until you bought a new phone.

Re:This is the most retarded comment evar

[Anonymous Coward]

I realize your being sarcastic, but from what I've heard, alot of them aren't, particularly Symbian.

Depends on what you mean by flexible.

The Symbian OS is so flexible that it doesn't even come with a UI. Like most embedded operating systems, it can be scaled up or down depending on the need.

However, without a UI you're SOL, so you need to get one from either Nokia (S60) or Symbian's own UIQ. Both of those require basically the full operating system in order to work correctly. On top of that, the operating system itself is a huge tangle of OO crap that taking one part out has grave unforeseen effects on other parts of the system. If you don't want a feature, you take the entire subsystem out wholesale or you live with it.

Symbian's got its good points. As a developer, I have yet to grasp what those could possibly be.

Get a new phone

[oliverthered]

Well, in 2-3 years time you'll probably be able to get a 1ghz phone with 512mb ram and 10gb solid state storage.

Then you'll be complaining that your tv doesn't have usb or bluetooth or wifi to transfer recordings onto your phone.

BLATANT RACISM IN WHOIS RECORD - MOD DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

check the whois for NYUD.INFO. I would post it here but I would be accused of racism myself.

...good that somebody big is shifting to linux

[Anonymous Coward]

GPLed or non- GPLed - its good that docomo is making the move. if we see 5 years from now - that - symbian is dead - we will be left with MS/windows. which is not such a bright idea. there are predictions in the industry that symbian will fade away. besides - linux users get to take thier pick with phones that can connect " easily " to thier choice of OS

Re:...good that somebody big is shifting to linux

[Anonymous Coward]

>"predictions in the industry that symbian will fade away" ...& there's predictions it's going to progressively dominate the mobile handset (OS) market over the next decade. ...& there's predictions it'll drop handsets in favour of toasters by 2007.

Linux on a phone is a fine idea but lacks a strong/capable backer in the industry. DoCoMo is a strong backer so perhaps we may finally see a real roadmap producing real products from a real company with the capabilities to compete...years behind the competition but hey, ya gotta start somewhere.

Re:...good that somebody big is shifting to linux

[mwk88]

I'd have to agree ith the need for strong backers, phones are surprizing complex devices -- lots of real time services combined with the challenge of squeezing good UI into a tiny device -- so it takes a major effort to make one that truly hangs together. I will be interested to see how strong a backer DoCoMo really is though, if their goal is just to dictate Linux to the handset providers and expect a price break, they may not be encouraging much innovation in the phones.

Mobile Linux Phones Already Available

[wehe]

There are already mobile phones equipped with Linux available. You may also consider to enhance your Linux PDA with a GSM/GPRS CF-Card. For an example see this report about Linux and the AnyCom GS-320 TriBand GSM/GPRS CF-Card.

This is really nice and all, but...

[AndyChrist]

When the HELL is Docomo going to do something about their sound quality?

For YEARS it's been painful to try and talk to someone using an NTT Docomo phone. Sometimes you just want to tell them to go to a landline phone.

Python for S60

[ultrabot]

Emacs jokes aside, what would be really nice is to have some scripting language backing these phones so I could have the phone be a little smarter about fr'instance when to interrupt me.

Future S60 phones might ship with Python out-of-the-box; Now it's still in beta phase.

See, the Symbian world isn't as closed as some people think. It's also not as open as some people (managers) think, but that's a different story...

retard forever

[Doc Ruby]

Anonymous retard Coward, try thinking about my post before typing at it. Palm smartphones have touchscreens, and have sold millions. They're very useful. The difference between "fundamentally the same" and "identical" means that some touchscreens (the better ones) have drivers, because they're not identical to mouses. Retard: you say both "Linux doesn't have a touch screen driver" and "there are touch screens available that have Linux drivers" in the same paragraph! Retard. Then your density gets in the way of understanding that since Linux has worked with both CLI and GUI for years, it can handle adding stylus, or any other mode, more easily than the other OS'es I mentioned. So of course you can't understand how my valid points show Linux to be more flexible than them.

Hell, you even screwed up the cliche "* is calling" wisecrack - because you're no wiser than the crack of your ass. In closing, Anonymous retard Coward, every line of your stupid post betrays your inability to think. I wish there were a way to retard posts like yours from showing up. PS: "ever"