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Intel Helping Asia to Use Linux
sameerdesai writes "Seattletimes is carying this story on Intel helping major countries like China and India to help build Linux machines as an alternative to Microsoft Windows. It definitely looks like both Microsoft and Intel are using the big potential market in Asia to establish a foothold. Microsoft is using its scare tactics to warn of possible lawsuits because Linux violates about 228 patents. What do fellow slashdotters think on trends of OS and hardware in Asia will be?"
Linux SUPPOSEDLY violates 228 patents. According to Microsoft. Talk about ass-backwards wording.
"[A] high IQ is like a Jeep; you will still get stuck, just farther from help!" --Just d' FAQs, c.g.a
...So you can replace it with genuine pirated windows straight from Microsoft or well sue! We mean it!!!
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Mod parent up!
Microsoft is using its scare tactics to warn of possible lawsuits because Linux violates about 228 patents...
...And also submitting stories to slashdot under the name "sameerdesai".
While it's true that many of the "tech support" jobs that have been outsourced to Asia have been windows-specific, it may well be the case that Intel is focusing more on its potential for servers which are not, or should not (generally) be Microsoft based. so they may seem more willing to work with hardware issues and opening up a broader market for increasing their presence on *nix based servers? Just a thought.
--- There is a man in a smiling bag.
How long do you reckon MS will let Intel get away with something like this for, before threatening to (e.g.) make a statement that Windows runs better on AMD processors?
For Intel, if there is cash to be made, Intel will go for it. What will be needed is to show M$ the numbers which will be too big to ignore.
Cb..
Linux and BSD already have a strong foothold on the desktop in asian countries, and is in use on many government computers as well.
o ni cle/archive/2004/03/17/BUGTA5M3M41.DTL&type=busine ss
t ml
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chr
http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8954613940.h
http://www.asiaosc.org/article_54.html
I think we can all say with certainty, that any OS based on latin script, along with (still largely) latin based keyboards and paradigms, which dominates in south east asia, will lead only to a great wailing and a gnashing of teeth. Perhaps what is really needed is for south east asia to develop an OS based on their written and syntactic paradigms, rather that a latin based left to right, 26 letters, scheme.
The best thing Intel could do to win customers would be to try to develop such a solution, rather than simply hacking english OSes to suit the rest of the world.
And to preempt the responses, what are the FOSS solutions to this problem? I hear chinese language support in linux is coming along. But what about the input issue?
May the Maths Be with you!
> because Linux violates about 228 patents
So, is it a fact or not? Proof it or shut up :-P
Try Ubuntu GNU/Linux, it's great!!!
Seriously, think about the last time the governemtns of India or China actually cared about patents that were registered outside their respective countries. Moreover, since Linux provides a very cheap alternative to Microsoft's products, I doubt if they will care about all the noise that MS makes. On the other hand, Microsoft is using what some may call 'underhand' tactics to sway the governments. Donations to government programmes is one of them. And as someone posted above, Linux SUPPOSEDLY violates 228 patents. MS has been trying to play down Linux for quite some time now and now they're saying it violates 228 patents. Yeah, I believe that.
China couldn't care less if Linux is breaking patents - their response to GM's claim of car design theft should explain that. Here's a link to Forbe's article on that http://www.google.ie/search?q=cache:DRIMvkRStB8J:w ww.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2004/09/06/ap1531296.html+g m+china+car+copied&hl=en&client=firefox-a/
If Intel's efforts will bring down the price of PCs in India, its an excellent move, and of course, with relatively cheap admins at their disposal, Banking and other firms wouldn't think twice to cease the opportunity, like AIB did. http://www.computerweekly.com/Article131652.htm/
The Chinese government runs their own distribution of Linux called "Red Flag Linux"...
Those would be American patents, right? As in patents that have no legal significance outside America? And we're talking about China and India, right?
Yeah. That's what I thought.
i'd say that linux has a huge advantage over m$ - cost, especially in china. there aren't many people who can afford a legal windows copy - not to menation that actually finding a legal copy can be a difficult issue in itself :) also, i assume that chinese users are in a very early state of their computer use habits, so there isn't this decade-old religiousness on hardware/OS preferences like in europe and the US, which is an advantage especially for alternative/niche companies. there was a nice article on the reg recently on it in asia, here.
Intel: Hello we would like to show you our processors and this lovely software called Linux and OpenOffice.
Oriental Bod: Very nice. The chips are a bugger to copy, we will just have to buy them. How much for the software?
Intel: Free.
Microsoft: You will be sued and die!
Oriental Bod: How much for your OS and office package Microsoft?
Microsoft: Same price as an average family home in your country, per box. Plus maintenance, anti-virus, defragemntation, remote support, admin tools and server costs. Plus downtime for virus attacks, patching, reboots on software install and the inevitable hacker attack. But if you read this document, the TCO is lower than the free software. Oh, I nearly forgot, we made Intel look bad because our OS's were so unreliable people thought the processors were bad too.
Intel: Mention AMD and you will be sued and die!
Oriental Bod: Hmm, so AMD and Open Source is cheaper in every conceivable way than Windows and
Intel. And as it's open I can manufacture my own devices and release the drivers without having to go through Microsoft scrutiny, thereby making my time to domestic market much faster?
Intel: Except you will be better using our chips rather than AMD's.
Oriental Bod: But your 64bit chip is the same as their 64bit chip and the geeks in Open Source land have been playing with it for longer. We like AMD!
Microsoft: But Linux violates nearly 229 patents!
Oriental Bod: We violate hundreds of human rights but no-one seems to give a damn about that either! We will be working on our Human Rights record for years to come, your licensing is insignificant to us. Bring on the AMD and OO!
It's my understanding that pirate copies of Windows are pretty widely available in Asia. This may, in somewhat of an ironic twist, actually end up hurting implementation of Linux-if you can get a copy of "Windows" for near-free, it may actually discourage people from adapting an open-source solution.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
Umm..
Linux supports eastern languages much better then Windows does.
Have you ever heard of TurboLinux? DragonLinux? RedFlag Linux?
TurboLinux is what China uses for most of it's infrastructure.
Linux has been working well for Asians for a long long time, and it supports various languages and such much better then Windows does in many cases.
RedFlag Linux is what it developed SPECIFICLY for a desktop operating system for it's citizens.
Think about it.
This is SOFTWARE DEVELOPED BY ASIANS FOR ASIANS.
By CHINA FOR CHINA.
You think Intel is going to any of the fucking work of translating it? Hell NO! They are going to simply open source their drivers and provide support and such for making their hardware very suitable for the operating system that Chinese/Korea/Japan/India/etc are already developing FOR THEMSELVES.
This is Open Source software, baby. This is how it works, this is why it works, and this is why it works better then closed source software in many cases.
As for the keyboards, you have to understand that the keyboards that we in the west are using are obsolete by 15 years by now. There are much more sophisticated solutions that have been developed and put into production for many years now.
Goes to show how Western + Closed source-centric your thinking is in this case.
StrayByte.Net
a 10 year old Buick.
The stereotype fits for my family and friends.
Here's a bit of ethnic humor.
Yes, I can see LInux easily 'winning' in China.
It's too good a bargain and the learning curve isn't that much steeper than WinDohs.
What I want to know is what Apple has in min for China and Asia markets. Are they addressing culture based aesthetics as they do in the USA? Do they even realize how many people in the USA buy Apple for aesthetic reasons?
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
Forgive the shameless plug, but we are trying to address this very issue at OpenAsia.org. Some cursory points:
1. The Chinese market and Indian markets are huge-- beyond your wildest dreams huge. Imagine the combined market of the US and EU in EACH country, but the economic maturity (read potential) of 1955 in the US.
2. Desktops are old skool, and the Chinese are leapfrogging directly to cell phones and notebooks. Think embedded (see interview with Rasterman on our site)
3. The posts here about keyboard compatability are non-sequiter: Chinese have Chinese-language keyboards if they want them; most Indians can speak some English (some are fluent), and Indian scripts are not so hard to do with specific keyboards
4. Linux is racing RACING in these markets-- espeically in India. Linux provides cheap, sturdy platforms for "free", while openning up the world of adaptative platforms and apps without having to go through the Americans.
5. Microsoft has its foothold, but that market is self limiting because of price, piracy, and functionality.
6. Red Hat, SuSE and the other "major" distros are equally limited via piracy (they cannot get money out of China or India). However, Red Hat's marketshare is growing rapidly in China.
7. We welcome any comments and stories based on these topics. (Forgive the membership requirement for posting comments-- we do not sell or transfer registration info.)
davejenkins.com |
I heard some comment that Microsoft were turning to the WTO to enforce the notion of intellectual property in countries who do not recognise it, so that they can protect their patent portfolio. This ends up another misuse of the WTO to further the financial ends of the 'haves' at the expense of the 'have nots'.
Write to your government, etc. IDNHSC.
The reason for MS to help pirating its own software is the price. While a typical Chinese family in Shanghai earns RMB4000, or US$500, a month. A copy of MS WinXP Home OEM(supposedly cheaper than non-OEM, the reason why OEM is for retail is beyond me) is labeled RMB 880http://www.federal.com.cn/shop/game/productintr oduce.asp?productno=10ABBMIC343, or about US$100. That's about one fifth of the family's income. And MS Office 2003 Standard Chinese Simplified costs RMB3000http://www.federal.com.cn/shop/soft/product introduce.asp?productno=10CBEMIC382, or US$370. These prices are from an online retailer. They used to be much higher when people earns much less in the mid-90s. Paying a month's earning for only the basic operating system sounds just insane. But this was, and largely still the case in China if you want to stay with MS leagally. And there is no alternative to MS, since MS has virtually destroyed everyone who dare to challenge them by every means possible, including promoting pirates.
I know Microsoft's practices are the same globaly, but it is extremely effective in locking in users of developing countries like China. Unlike the west, there was virtually no base of unix users. To most people, computer = PC = Windows. The shortage of unix gurus makes Linux extremely hard to approach in the early days.
Now the situation has changed somehow, but language barrier still exists. Good linux documentation and forums are almost all in English or more obscure languages to a common Chinese. One has to be fluent in English to master Linux. There're not many people can do so, even among the youth. Translation helps, but not much, partly because of the quality. The community-driven model itself demands users and developers to communicate in common language, and the core developers are, inevitably, mostly English speaking or prefer to communicate in English.
Having said that, I still believe Linux is the way to go for Chinese, not for some national security reasons, but the freedom and openness.
People who dislike China tend to mention Tiananmen Square a lot, but they always forget the Tank Man is also a Chinese.
If a company is based around training and services then it shouldn't matter much how many copies are stollen. It should actually help. Example: You can download and use NXServer/Client for free, but if you are looking to run an office on it, your going to need their help. Same with Redhat. Most installations go smooth (a credit to their product) but if your doing something on an enterprise scale you want the comfort of knowing that you can blame the folks in the fedora, and they WILL fix your problems as they come up.
.... .... uh the Congo is nice this time of year isn't it?
Since small jobs don't require much support it allows service companies to ignore the nickle and dime stuff and focus on the high rollers. So steel it all you like, your just increasing the number of people who are comfortable with the product, and decreasing the cost of finding good employees.
Of couse RH and Novel will need to find tech support workers who can cost effectively service India and China....
I would rather be ashes than dust!
So enough. Lets pet Intel a bit. Intel has long been hardly unfriendly to Linux but was on the other hand part of Wintel. Can this suggest that perhaps the Wintel alliance is not nearly as thight as some /. monkeys seem to think? (if it was explain why Intel would ever make their compiler work on linux.)
If Intel is really going to release stuff (actually more stuff they already have linux drivers of their own making) are they going to do it the opensource way? That could actually be pretty big. Almost all components of a pc can be bought from Intel. A total Intel PC with complete opensource drivers would finally end the "Linux doesn't regonize my hardware" crap.
A namebrand PC running 100% opensource software made by volunteers and the company making the hardware. Gosh, that would be nice.
Oh and if Intel releases opensource drivers then nothing in those drivers can be considered to ifringe on any patents of intel. And if Intel wants to sell their chips to Linux users they wouldn't enforce any patents against linux either. Is Intel another ally?
I think this kinda news and companies like nvidia and ati trying to support linux is actually very important. Linux share at the moment is tiny and if these companies did not try it would be even smaller. They are helping linux grow. (and if they go all the way and opensource their contributions BSD grow)
Anyone know if Intel is going all the way? Full opensource drivers and/or helping opensource developers with the specs to their hardware? Grepping through the kernel for intel doesn't tell me who wrote the code or how they found out how to write the driver.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
The slashdot community seems to have a love-hate relationship with Intel. We want to see AMD overcome Intel in the processor wars. But then we solute Intel for it's interest in Linux, and bash AMD for it's cozyness with Microsoft.
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This is more than true. In China, India, and SE Asia, Windows costs just as much as Linux: Software is priced per CD, and one CD costs about $1 - 3, depending on the country.
So why do people use Windows if the cost the same? Because all Software, from Adobe to the latest games, is also priced per CD, and readily available for Windows. I pay $2 per CD for any Windows app here, no matter what it is. Mac is possible to get, but difficult and older. Linux apps, i have never seen. I think the only reason they sell Linux (RedHat etc) at all is for servers.
Obviously, people who sell you hardware can't just include a pirated copy of Windows, so they will pre-install either some DOS version or, increasingly, Linux - but just so people can install their own Windows. All big laptop manufacturers sell their low-cost models here with Linux or DOS pre-installed.
Microsoft doesn't do anything against that as in reality it's the only thing that keeps them on the market. If everybody here had to pay western prices for Software and OS, then no-one would be able to afford it and it would disappear from the market in a day. Everybody would use Linux, and asian software companies would be cranking out Linux clones of Win-software.
Piracy is the only thing that keeps M$ in the game.