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Intel Helping Asia to Use Linux
sameerdesai writes "Seattletimes is carying this story on Intel helping major countries like China and India to help build Linux machines as an alternative to Microsoft Windows. It definitely looks like both Microsoft and Intel are using the big potential market in Asia to establish a foothold. Microsoft is using its scare tactics to warn of possible lawsuits because Linux violates about 228 patents. What do fellow slashdotters think on trends of OS and hardware in Asia will be?"
Linux SUPPOSEDLY violates 228 patents. According to Microsoft. Talk about ass-backwards wording.
"[A] high IQ is like a Jeep; you will still get stuck, just farther from help!" --Just d' FAQs, c.g.a
...So you can replace it with genuine pirated windows straight from Microsoft or well sue! We mean it!!!
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
Mod parent up!
Microsoft is using its scare tactics to warn of possible lawsuits because Linux violates about 228 patents...
...And also submitting stories to slashdot under the name "sameerdesai".
While it's true that many of the "tech support" jobs that have been outsourced to Asia have been windows-specific, it may well be the case that Intel is focusing more on its potential for servers which are not, or should not (generally) be Microsoft based. so they may seem more willing to work with hardware issues and opening up a broader market for increasing their presence on *nix based servers? Just a thought.
--- There is a man in a smiling bag.
How long do you reckon MS will let Intel get away with something like this for, before threatening to (e.g.) make a statement that Windows runs better on AMD processors?
For Intel, if there is cash to be made, Intel will go for it. What will be needed is to show M$ the numbers which will be too big to ignore.
Cb..
Linux and BSD already have a strong foothold on the desktop in asian countries, and is in use on many government computers as well.
o ni cle/archive/2004/03/17/BUGTA5M3M41.DTL&type=busine ss
t ml
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chr
http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8954613940.h
http://www.asiaosc.org/article_54.html
I think we can all say with certainty, that any OS based on latin script, along with (still largely) latin based keyboards and paradigms, which dominates in south east asia, will lead only to a great wailing and a gnashing of teeth. Perhaps what is really needed is for south east asia to develop an OS based on their written and syntactic paradigms, rather that a latin based left to right, 26 letters, scheme.
The best thing Intel could do to win customers would be to try to develop such a solution, rather than simply hacking english OSes to suit the rest of the world.
And to preempt the responses, what are the FOSS solutions to this problem? I hear chinese language support in linux is coming along. But what about the input issue?
May the Maths Be with you!
> because Linux violates about 228 patents
So, is it a fact or not? Proof it or shut up :-P
Try Ubuntu GNU/Linux, it's great!!!
Seriously, think about the last time the governemtns of India or China actually cared about patents that were registered outside their respective countries. Moreover, since Linux provides a very cheap alternative to Microsoft's products, I doubt if they will care about all the noise that MS makes. On the other hand, Microsoft is using what some may call 'underhand' tactics to sway the governments. Donations to government programmes is one of them. And as someone posted above, Linux SUPPOSEDLY violates 228 patents. MS has been trying to play down Linux for quite some time now and now they're saying it violates 228 patents. Yeah, I believe that.
China couldn't care less if Linux is breaking patents - their response to GM's claim of car design theft should explain that. Here's a link to Forbe's article on that http://www.google.ie/search?q=cache:DRIMvkRStB8J:w ww.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2004/09/06/ap1531296.html+g m+china+car+copied&hl=en&client=firefox-a/
If Intel's efforts will bring down the price of PCs in India, its an excellent move, and of course, with relatively cheap admins at their disposal, Banking and other firms wouldn't think twice to cease the opportunity, like AIB did. http://www.computerweekly.com/Article131652.htm/
The Chinese government runs their own distribution of Linux called "Red Flag Linux"...
There's something wrong here. I'm a native English speaker, and both "..helping Asia use Linux" and "...helping Asia to use Linux" sound fine to me. Which is correct, and which has become so widely used that I can't figure out if it's wrong?
Those would be American patents, right? As in patents that have no legal significance outside America? And we're talking about China and India, right?
Yeah. That's what I thought.
i'd say that linux has a huge advantage over m$ - cost, especially in china. there aren't many people who can afford a legal windows copy - not to menation that actually finding a legal copy can be a difficult issue in itself :) also, i assume that chinese users are in a very early state of their computer use habits, so there isn't this decade-old religiousness on hardware/OS preferences like in europe and the US, which is an advantage especially for alternative/niche companies. there was a nice article on the reg recently on it in asia, here.
One of the things that I've noticed with politics when it comes to Asia is that they generally don't go for the whole 'scare' campaigns.
Most times I've seen the US make threatening dances and Asia (okay, typically China) go "*shrug* so what?".
The US and its companies are fast sliding past the position where they can afford to rely on feather puffing and noise making - they may end up being next year's Turkey on China's plate.
Intel: Hello we would like to show you our processors and this lovely software called Linux and OpenOffice.
Oriental Bod: Very nice. The chips are a bugger to copy, we will just have to buy them. How much for the software?
Intel: Free.
Microsoft: You will be sued and die!
Oriental Bod: How much for your OS and office package Microsoft?
Microsoft: Same price as an average family home in your country, per box. Plus maintenance, anti-virus, defragemntation, remote support, admin tools and server costs. Plus downtime for virus attacks, patching, reboots on software install and the inevitable hacker attack. But if you read this document, the TCO is lower than the free software. Oh, I nearly forgot, we made Intel look bad because our OS's were so unreliable people thought the processors were bad too.
Intel: Mention AMD and you will be sued and die!
Oriental Bod: Hmm, so AMD and Open Source is cheaper in every conceivable way than Windows and
Intel. And as it's open I can manufacture my own devices and release the drivers without having to go through Microsoft scrutiny, thereby making my time to domestic market much faster?
Intel: Except you will be better using our chips rather than AMD's.
Oriental Bod: But your 64bit chip is the same as their 64bit chip and the geeks in Open Source land have been playing with it for longer. We like AMD!
Microsoft: But Linux violates nearly 229 patents!
Oriental Bod: We violate hundreds of human rights but no-one seems to give a damn about that either! We will be working on our Human Rights record for years to come, your licensing is insignificant to us. Bring on the AMD and OO!
It's my understanding that pirate copies of Windows are pretty widely available in Asia. This may, in somewhat of an ironic twist, actually end up hurting implementation of Linux-if you can get a copy of "Windows" for near-free, it may actually discourage people from adapting an open-source solution.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
Umm..
Linux supports eastern languages much better then Windows does.
Have you ever heard of TurboLinux? DragonLinux? RedFlag Linux?
TurboLinux is what China uses for most of it's infrastructure.
Linux has been working well for Asians for a long long time, and it supports various languages and such much better then Windows does in many cases.
RedFlag Linux is what it developed SPECIFICLY for a desktop operating system for it's citizens.
Think about it.
This is SOFTWARE DEVELOPED BY ASIANS FOR ASIANS.
By CHINA FOR CHINA.
You think Intel is going to any of the fucking work of translating it? Hell NO! They are going to simply open source their drivers and provide support and such for making their hardware very suitable for the operating system that Chinese/Korea/Japan/India/etc are already developing FOR THEMSELVES.
This is Open Source software, baby. This is how it works, this is why it works, and this is why it works better then closed source software in many cases.
As for the keyboards, you have to understand that the keyboards that we in the west are using are obsolete by 15 years by now. There are much more sophisticated solutions that have been developed and put into production for many years now.
Goes to show how Western + Closed source-centric your thinking is in this case.
If the patent goes the way of the copyright in China... Well, the result is an excercise left to the reader.
Microsoft should give a small sum for every patent proven to be violated by open source software.
The linux community can then record this and write alternatives.
Automatic detection software would soon follow. dPatent will automatically identify patents being violated and will rewrite the code, patent free.
Soon, the patent office will realize the current patent system is not scalable, and the system will be changed. A (software?) patent would have to be automatically identifiable from now on.
(This is possibly impossible in many cases anyway. Isn't it?)
World peace would be inevitable.
Uri Schonfeld
Well, it would have been better to write "228 AMERICAN patents", I'm not sure most of those would stand in China, or even Europe....
StrayByte.Net
Well, unless MS owns the patent on the business method of avoiding patent lawsuits by not using patented code, of course
The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
Suddenly, I understand why MS are doing what they are with Dell/AMD
a 10 year old Buick.
The stereotype fits for my family and friends.
Here's a bit of ethnic humor.
Yes, I can see LInux easily 'winning' in China.
It's too good a bargain and the learning curve isn't that much steeper than WinDohs.
What I want to know is what Apple has in min for China and Asia markets. Are they addressing culture based aesthetics as they do in the USA? Do they even realize how many people in the USA buy Apple for aesthetic reasons?
Now I'm the grandest Tiger in the Jungle!
Forgive the shameless plug, but we are trying to address this very issue at OpenAsia.org. Some cursory points:
1. The Chinese market and Indian markets are huge-- beyond your wildest dreams huge. Imagine the combined market of the US and EU in EACH country, but the economic maturity (read potential) of 1955 in the US.
2. Desktops are old skool, and the Chinese are leapfrogging directly to cell phones and notebooks. Think embedded (see interview with Rasterman on our site)
3. The posts here about keyboard compatability are non-sequiter: Chinese have Chinese-language keyboards if they want them; most Indians can speak some English (some are fluent), and Indian scripts are not so hard to do with specific keyboards
4. Linux is racing RACING in these markets-- espeically in India. Linux provides cheap, sturdy platforms for "free", while openning up the world of adaptative platforms and apps without having to go through the Americans.
5. Microsoft has its foothold, but that market is self limiting because of price, piracy, and functionality.
6. Red Hat, SuSE and the other "major" distros are equally limited via piracy (they cannot get money out of China or India). However, Red Hat's marketshare is growing rapidly in China.
7. We welcome any comments and stories based on these topics. (Forgive the membership requirement for posting comments-- we do not sell or transfer registration info.)
davejenkins.com |
I doubt many companies in Asia are concerned about litigation against open source over patents. If the BSA gains any support from Asian governments, however, that could have a major impact. Most small and some larger companies (varies how much by country) use mainly pirated Windows software. If the risk of using pirated software becomes unacceptable, I think open source will gain a huge slice of the market.
I heard some comment that Microsoft were turning to the WTO to enforce the notion of intellectual property in countries who do not recognise it, so that they can protect their patent portfolio. This ends up another misuse of the WTO to further the financial ends of the 'haves' at the expense of the 'have nots'.
Write to your government, etc. IDNHSC.
The reason for MS to help pirating its own software is the price. While a typical Chinese family in Shanghai earns RMB4000, or US$500, a month. A copy of MS WinXP Home OEM(supposedly cheaper than non-OEM, the reason why OEM is for retail is beyond me) is labeled RMB 880http://www.federal.com.cn/shop/game/productintr oduce.asp?productno=10ABBMIC343, or about US$100. That's about one fifth of the family's income. And MS Office 2003 Standard Chinese Simplified costs RMB3000http://www.federal.com.cn/shop/soft/product introduce.asp?productno=10CBEMIC382, or US$370. These prices are from an online retailer. They used to be much higher when people earns much less in the mid-90s. Paying a month's earning for only the basic operating system sounds just insane. But this was, and largely still the case in China if you want to stay with MS leagally. And there is no alternative to MS, since MS has virtually destroyed everyone who dare to challenge them by every means possible, including promoting pirates.
I know Microsoft's practices are the same globaly, but it is extremely effective in locking in users of developing countries like China. Unlike the west, there was virtually no base of unix users. To most people, computer = PC = Windows. The shortage of unix gurus makes Linux extremely hard to approach in the early days.
Now the situation has changed somehow, but language barrier still exists. Good linux documentation and forums are almost all in English or more obscure languages to a common Chinese. One has to be fluent in English to master Linux. There're not many people can do so, even among the youth. Translation helps, but not much, partly because of the quality. The community-driven model itself demands users and developers to communicate in common language, and the core developers are, inevitably, mostly English speaking or prefer to communicate in English.
Having said that, I still believe Linux is the way to go for Chinese, not for some national security reasons, but the freedom and openness.
People who dislike China tend to mention Tiananmen Square a lot, but they always forget the Tank Man is also a Chinese.
I think these "what do you think"-posts are getting a bit long in the tooth. I mean, its not if there wasn't enough comments anyway.
If a company is based around training and services then it shouldn't matter much how many copies are stollen. It should actually help. Example: You can download and use NXServer/Client for free, but if you are looking to run an office on it, your going to need their help. Same with Redhat. Most installations go smooth (a credit to their product) but if your doing something on an enterprise scale you want the comfort of knowing that you can blame the folks in the fedora, and they WILL fix your problems as they come up.
.... .... uh the Congo is nice this time of year isn't it?
Since small jobs don't require much support it allows service companies to ignore the nickle and dime stuff and focus on the high rollers. So steel it all you like, your just increasing the number of people who are comfortable with the product, and decreasing the cost of finding good employees.
Of couse RH and Novel will need to find tech support workers who can cost effectively service India and China....
I would rather be ashes than dust!
But aren't those patents meaningless in everywhere but the US? Forgive me, for I am n00b!
So enough. Lets pet Intel a bit. Intel has long been hardly unfriendly to Linux but was on the other hand part of Wintel. Can this suggest that perhaps the Wintel alliance is not nearly as thight as some /. monkeys seem to think? (if it was explain why Intel would ever make their compiler work on linux.)
If Intel is really going to release stuff (actually more stuff they already have linux drivers of their own making) are they going to do it the opensource way? That could actually be pretty big. Almost all components of a pc can be bought from Intel. A total Intel PC with complete opensource drivers would finally end the "Linux doesn't regonize my hardware" crap.
A namebrand PC running 100% opensource software made by volunteers and the company making the hardware. Gosh, that would be nice.
Oh and if Intel releases opensource drivers then nothing in those drivers can be considered to ifringe on any patents of intel. And if Intel wants to sell their chips to Linux users they wouldn't enforce any patents against linux either. Is Intel another ally?
I think this kinda news and companies like nvidia and ati trying to support linux is actually very important. Linux share at the moment is tiny and if these companies did not try it would be even smaller. They are helping linux grow. (and if they go all the way and opensource their contributions BSD grow)
Anyone know if Intel is going all the way? Full opensource drivers and/or helping opensource developers with the specs to their hardware? Grepping through the kernel for intel doesn't tell me who wrote the code or how they found out how to write the driver.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
It will be their own, it always is, they are very protective of their market and culture. It might start with Linux or something else but several things are sure:
1-China doesn't care for internationnal standards when it has too
2-China doesn't want to depend on the US for crucial technologies
3-China likes to develop it's own thing made for its own people
4-Their semantic and use of language and symbols is very different from ours, the OS interface should therefore, to be optimal, be very different then what we are used to.
So I think Asia (Asia is mostly influenced by China, it will need to be compatible with it...) will end up with some sort of OS we don't know of yet, something that fits them. It might be Linux based or something entirely different but even if it's Linux based, in the end it probably won't even be compatible with our Linux here.
American software patents are void.
There you are, staring at me again.
http://www.euobserver.com/?aid=17806
Globalization has changed the context, like it or not.
Cultural and political factors aside, technically, it is sometimes easier to adapt existing solutions than build the whole thing ground up.
People who dislike China tend to mention Tiananmen Square a lot, but they always forget the Tank Man is also a Chinese.
Maybe its time for the OSS community to demand M$ prove their much faulted... errr...vaulted OS does NOT contain any IP violations.
Fair is fair sine Linux has shown it's insides why should M$ if they're so damn confident in the claims against Linux.
Please... much M$ FUD and the IT media just sucks it up like a bunch of tapped out winos! Sad.
The GM claim for car design theft sounds like FUD to me. The following is what I cut directly from the linked article. "But the Spark design, which GM obtained in its 2002 acquisition of South Korea's former Daewoo Motor Sales Corp., was never patented in China and thus isn't protected by China's intellectual property laws"... In addition, other than similar exterior look GM does not provide much evidence for copying. Most cars in the lower end of the market look similar anyway. It sounds like GM's FUD to me...
Remember the infamous GIF patent. Unisys has filed patent only in US, Japan, Canada, Germany, France, Britain and Italy. The above case was like Unisys boss cry foul for the use of unlicenced GIF tools by Scandinavian/ Australian/ New Zealander.
The slashdot community seems to have a love-hate relationship with Intel. We want to see AMD overcome Intel in the processor wars. But then we solute Intel for it's interest in Linux, and bash AMD for it's cozyness with Microsoft.
Powered by caffeine and sugar; BSD
I would love to see the US pushed into Linux compatibility by other countries for a change. It's a better OS and a more efficient business model.
We have a day of reckoning coming. On the amount of energy we use, about being dependent on foreign countries for manufacturing capacity, being dependent on foreigners to finance our budget deficit and thinking we can sustain an economy on mind share exports. Won't be long they're going to start jerking those chains and we're going to get a lesson on what the word "bitch" really means.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Who runs Intel? Intel or Microsoft?
Intel should tell Microsoft to coexist peacefully with the other 300+ operating systems on the face of the earth.
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
To promote Linux anywhere in the world, I feel the resistance from the parents is one of the big concern. Many will complain if they find their children are learning some useless subject, like, non-MS related computer course.
It is especially relevant for IBM. If they want to create future headache for MS, develop a good set of teaching resources, which can be delivered through Linux. It should be relatively easy to include typing tutor program (localised version), basic word processing (openoffice), internet browser, programming tools matched to the course to an iso... The teachers will love the idea.
It may not be that expensive to say, IBM. But, the schools can have a big company to lean on and the parents will feel much better.
The only way MS can play in these economies is to dramatically drop prices which would affect prices/revenue around the world because they couldn't have the prices so much lower in certain markets without a huge grey market developing.
Bottomline...especially in India...no one cares whether their OS is Windows or Linux, people just want a computer that can do this, this and that. People have nothing to do with whether or not Microsoft engages in monopolistic behavior, or whether 'open source' is morally superior,etc etc. The market is still very open, so either Linux or Windows could win. The key to all this is Dell, if Dell becomes a key player, selling cheap but good quality computers, loaded with Windows, then Windows wins. If those comps are loaded with Linux, then Linux wins. The computer companies in India and China have all tried, but haven't become big enough to be ablev to sustain and grow the operations in the vast markets of India and China. Dell can do that, and I wouldn't be surprised if Dell's headquarters move to somewhere in India within this decade.
"helping Asia to use Linux" is the correct one. If I had more time, I'd come up with an example that proves this.
Follow me
A country whose population prefers communism now fascism instead of freedom.
One would think so much ignorance should hurt really bad. You really have to think large masses of people just loved enjoyed and embraced many decades (over 40 years alone in eastern europe, let alone elsewhere) of this stuff. And you really have to think breaking out of it is just a matter of a fingersnap or what.
I lived through one of such revolutions which resulted in breaking a communist regime, it wasn't fun getting there, neither getting along with it you know. You just take your darn freedom for darn granted.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
We all know that once Intel turns is back, Asia's going to reformat and install warez versions of Windows XP!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
That's the general reaction, here in India. Majority of PC's are sold by local assemblers, corporates being the only ones looking for branded ones. And these assemblers load all kinds of commercial software for free, not just the operating system (which is either Win98 or XP). Even if someone wants to buy a copy of some software or game, there's no option but to go for the pirated version, cosidering the difficulties in getting hold of a legal distributor (let alone paying for the copy).
Having said that, there IS a general Linux and FOSS awareness (most youngsters learn about it in technical courses), now that piracy laws are getting tougher. Not to mention the whole virus/worm/spyware headache that's been plaguing all Windoze-based net users. But when you have WinXP CDs circulating for re-installs all over the place, who'd want to go through the trouble of installing and getting used to Linux?
I think all of these Linux in Asia are pirated ones.
Oh wait...
well in India for the average SOHO/Home user, linux is pretty invisible. Windows is easy to use, ubiquitous and your vendor installs the version you pick. free. with the dial-up speeds viruses come slower (:-s) - (i.e. the ones using the buffer exploits.) besides Nortons free too ;)
k i fear ive already said too much.
but yeah once they start screwing piracy, linux should have a huge base.
I think the question the author asks is a bit irrelevant; we know there will be a strong linux showing in Asia.
And while we can all sit here and cheer about Linux's proliferation, I'm curious as to whether large Asian companies using Linux are following in the OSS spirit and abiding by the GPL with their usage of Linux. If Linux use in Asia is so large, we should expect similarly large contributions to the coding effort from Asia, correct?
(I know that there are likely uncountable GPL violations in the US/Europe that are unknown, but Asia seems particularly questionable.)
This stories tells of another Microsoft techniques to increase no. of licensed users :-)
Asia doesn't want to be controlled by foreign interests, therefore it will adopt the IT technology it can implement by itself, i.e. GNU/Linux.
It's something to do with the verb "use" being used as a noun (substantive ?) This means in english this is the same as the infinitive; hence "to use".
No but, yeah but, no but...
This is more than true. In China, India, and SE Asia, Windows costs just as much as Linux: Software is priced per CD, and one CD costs about $1 - 3, depending on the country.
So why do people use Windows if the cost the same? Because all Software, from Adobe to the latest games, is also priced per CD, and readily available for Windows. I pay $2 per CD for any Windows app here, no matter what it is. Mac is possible to get, but difficult and older. Linux apps, i have never seen. I think the only reason they sell Linux (RedHat etc) at all is for servers.
Obviously, people who sell you hardware can't just include a pirated copy of Windows, so they will pre-install either some DOS version or, increasingly, Linux - but just so people can install their own Windows. All big laptop manufacturers sell their low-cost models here with Linux or DOS pre-installed.
Microsoft doesn't do anything against that as in reality it's the only thing that keeps them on the market. If everybody here had to pay western prices for Software and OS, then no-one would be able to afford it and it would disappear from the market in a day. Everybody would use Linux, and asian software companies would be cranking out Linux clones of Win-software.
Piracy is the only thing that keeps M$ in the game.
Windows XP costs next to nothing here in Taiwan, if you're not picky about having a "license." As in the U.S., most people have only ever seen or used computers running M$ OSs and apps. Mac commands a measly single-digit market-sliver and Linux is for the hardy. Over the last six-to-eight years, just about everything O'Reilly ever published has been translated into Chinese, so most of the language-barrier problems have been overcome, but user habits and corporate/academic investments in training and software are slow to change. The desks of graduate students at my university are littered with books on ASP, not C.
As long as M$ tolerates rampant piracy and/or aggressively licenses its software (deep, deep educational discounts for example), Linux will have a hard time breaking into widespread desktop use here, unless it (ugh) looks, feels, and acts (double-ugh) just like Windows, and is just as cheap (!) and reliable.
Me? Oh, I'm just waitin' for the day, but I ain't holding my breath. Users here--like ordinary users just about anywhere--want to plug it in and use it. The only real difference, I think, is that users here want to plug it in and have it work in Chinese.
Ah, but _embedded_ though; that's another story. Taiwan out-gadgets the U.S. The market is small here, but we have this big neighbor just across the Strait....
Windows XP costs next to nothing here in Taiwan, if you're not picky about having a "license." As in the U.S., most people have only ever seen or used computers running M$ OSs and apps. Mac commands a measly single-digit market-sliver and Linux is for the hardy. Over the last six-to-eight years, just about everything O'Reilly ever published has been translated into Chinese, so most of the language-barrier problems have been overcome, but user habits and corporate/academic investments in training and software are slow to change. The desks of graduate students at my university are littered with books on ASP, not C.
As long as M$ tolerates rampant piracy and/or aggressively licenses its software (deep, deep educational discounts for example), Linux will have a hard time breaking into widespread desktop use here, unless it (ugh) looks, feels, and acts (double-ugh) just like Windows, and is just as cheap (!).
Me? Oh, I'm just waitin' for the day, but I ain't holding my breath. Users here--like ordinary users just about anywhere--want to plug it in and use it. The only real difference, I think, is that users here want to plug it in and have it work in Chinese.
Ah, but embedded though; that's another story. Taiwan out-gadgets the U.S. The market is small here, but we have this big neighbor just across the Strait....
There have been chinese copyrights over western religious icons. Chinese IP's are used for spamming. Chinese govt's don't care about human rights. They got a lot of pirate copies of Windows. And you think they'll be scared of patent infringment?
Puh-lease.
Seems to me most of the bitching about Windows is about Windows (duh). What I mean is the Win32 subsystem.
Perhaps this is simplistic, but MS could develop a GNU based subsystem (note I did not say "POSIX") under a modified GPL and run that on top of the NT executive. (Screw SFU that is an abomination.)
Shit - the baby is crying so I wil make this short.... but you can see where I am going with this.
I am very small, utmostly microscopic.
There's just one thing I don't get: Why would anyone want to use Windows?
Linux is:
Windows is:
Where exactly is the advantage of Windows here?
(Oh, and Windows isn't easier to use either - I found that Slackware's text-administration tools and editing text files are actually much simpler and more straightforward than a slow, buggy, and poorly-designed graphical administration tool. And don't get me started on XP's "Find" tool...)
Creative misinterpretation is your friend.
I think that much of IBM's strategy is based on Linux. As such, IBM may step up to defend it's own interest in Linux.
I don't think msft wants as legal fight with IBM.
small asian companies are better off with linux, (with violating patents) than pirated windows, and ballmer trying to squeeze thier b***s for the same and trying to extract desperate pennies out of them! its here that intel and the rest of the guys can score - cheap linux for people who dont have the money - or dont want to pay money - or who dont care about paying - so linux fits in perfectly here. the only thing he has to pay for is the linux personnel who installs stuff. so if he wants frequent upgrades - the linux personnel benefits - most likely he wouldnt want one - so either ways people benefit. and there's a jobmarket at the low end for the guys who learn linux - this is quite easy and plenty of people already can handle most base installations as easily as windows. so i do belive there is a genuine case say in the next year or so - to go full fledged with linux. there's more than enough applications that the small businesses need. and everything for free - without violating any laws. ballmer says the governments are losing money by the way of taxes - but hey the government need not worry about foreign exchange going out of the country - tons of it - more than what they get by the way of taxes - so what peanuts profit does the government make by the way of taxes that he - ballmer's - talking about ? (well, not exactly talking , he was more than threatening people). thats good in a way. he's waking up people to the realities.
Where exactly did you get that (mis)info, man?
Here are some thruths:
> I think we can all say with certainty, that any OS based on latin script, along with (still largely) latin based keyboards and paradigms, which dominates in south east asia, will lead only to a great wailing and a gnashing of teeth
Wrong. Linux supports Thai and other Asian languages including double-byte languages of East Asia. There's nothing wrong with "English" keyboards and scripts, people LOVE English in Asia. And it's easier to remember. And it's easier to search the web for "kernel make" than for "hexin anzhuang" as you get many more results.
>Perhaps what is really needed is for south east asia to develop an OS based on their written and syntactic paradigms, rather that a latin based left to right, 26 letters, scheme.
No, it's fine the way it is now.
> I hear chinese language support in linux is coming along. But what about the input issue?
What input "issue"?
Chinese has over 10 input methods, other languages are just fine too.
>The best thing Intel could do to win customers would be to try to develop such a solution
Yeah, right - for who? For AMD's el-cheapo system for Asian market? Why would they do that?
All they need is to make sure the Indian guys they outsourced driver writing do their job, and that Chinese manufacturers (actually Taiwanese, in China) know where to get those drivers.
Substantives are adjectives used as nouns. A verbal noun is a gerund. I believe that in this sentence, "to use" is a complementary infinitive.
English is easier said than done.
While they may have developed their own keyboards years ago, they no longer use those keyboards with characters on them because Chinese has over 10,000 character that would need to be represented and it was deemed slow and cumbersome. Instead they type using the "latin" keyboard in pinyin (which is the phonetic pronunciation of a written character utilizing only the 26 letters).
Apparently you aren't familiar with canjie Chinese input. It's based on the structure of Chinese characters. Each key has one strucural componet of a character. By typing in the components one by one, a character is built. When you are done, you hit space. Actually, this is faster than typing words in English. Many people type over 200 words a minute using cangjie. Some type over 300. I know the definition of a word is a little difficult to compare between English and Chinese, but a Chinese person who is good with cangjie can type a text faster than a fast western typist can type the English translation.
Cangjie is used in Mainland China, Taiwan, HK, and even overseas communities. It takes a little work to learn, but unlike pinyin and zhuyin it is equally useful regardless of what Chinese langauge you speak (Mandarin, Cantonese, Kejia, Minnan, etc...). Best of all unlike Japanese people who use their phonetic input method, Chinese who use cangjie will never forget how to write characters by hand.
BTW, nearly any keyboard made now will have roman characters on it. However, I've never seen one here without cangjie symbols. Taiwanese keyboards have a THIRD system (zhuyin fuhao) as well.
I'm a gnu world man.
I believe I read that Microsoft were denying ever making a threat...Either way threatening a market like that will only backfire. Would you buy from a vendor who threatens you?
Just hope the board of directors over at MSFT do not realise how much damage Ballmer is doing...
StarTux
"The question you gotta ask yourself (and the MS gorillas when they come a pounding threatening lawsuits) is why doesn't MS throw it's weight into the courtroom for all of their so-called infringed patents?"
Because the risks from IBM and others are great. Microsoft has made the decision to use patents in a different way. Their weapon of choice has always been FUD. They are calculating that Patents may be used most effectively by the threat of lawsuits. Far less risk and if people buy it they gain.
Like all of their FUD campaigns, this one will fail as well. People are getting wise to Microsoft's lying ways. But that is not to say that this FUD campaign must be vigorously fought to ensure that it fails quickly.
We also need to push to fix the broken patent system.
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
We need a better term. "Intellectual monopoly privilege" maybe. This is more accurate but it does not roll off the tongue. I am open for suggestions.
Religion is the main cause of atheism.
Hi, I'm currently contracting in Asia and have always prided myself on my ability to infest the companies I work with, with Linux. Currently about 50 % of my 25 member development team uses Linux. I was quite proud, but... Yesterday I visited a company where the CTO, after another virus bout, just made an executive decision that everyone will run Linux. So now 90 % of the 160 employees use Linux. They save time and they save money and Linux skills are cheap in Asia. Its a match made in heaven.
Most of the us(india) get our own machines when we join for graduation. If I remember correctly we all had dual boot systems(Lin+Win) and we never paid anything for that. In india, at least in the universities you can find
win:lin=1:1=pirated:free
**probably right
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Oh btw, I would puke everytime I read the malayalam translation of "Retry, Cancel, Abort" :)
As far as I remember, I worked on the Pango module for malayalam.I admit that I was young, foolish and caffiene enhanced sleep deprived when I wrote that , can someone throw that away and rewrite it properly ?.
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
The joke is good, in fact, quite true in the sense that many Chinese are very clever in spendings as well as doing business as individuals. But even in that joke, the phrase "Chinese man" is used instead of this C*man word.
People who dislike China tend to mention Tiananmen Square a lot, but they always forget the Tank Man is also a Chinese.