Slashdot Mirror
Former Turkish DMOZ Editor Draws 10 Months In Jail
makne writes "H. Ertas, a Turkish editor of the Open Directory Project (www.dmoz.org) has been sentenced to 10 months in prison after being found guilty of editing a category about the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK). Ertas's lawyer, Suna Coskun, explained that his client had worked as a voluntary editor at the Open Directory Project during his studies at the Euphrat-University and had been responsible for the Kurdish category. At the same time he became interested in Kurds and undertook his own research into the subject. As a voluntary editor, he had sorted the directory submissions but could not be responsible for their content. Therefore there could be no penalty under international law, according to Coskun. His activities could in no way be understood as 'support for a terrorist organisation' and thus Ertas' release was appropriate. The court sentenced Ertas to 10 months in prison and a fine of 416 million Turkish lire ($293). The sentence is not eligible for probation." (Read on for more.)
By email, makne writes "I don't know the editor personally, but the editor was first arrested two years ago, then released on parole until now. Members of the editor community
have tried to help him in any way they can, with no apparent success. The editor resigned from the ODP in 2002."
Makne also provided this link to a summary (from the Kurdish point of view) of earlier attempts to stifle Kurdish sites, including a campaign to have DMOZ's then-parent company Netscape remove the Kurdish category from DMOZ.
I believe that organizations like DMOZ should have the ability to quickly react, perhaps in protest, to situations like this one.
For example, rigorous semantic information attached to every DMOZ record would allow the DMOZ community to suspend or flag all information related to the Turkish government, in protest of the current situation. Such a capability could easily be abused or taken too far, which is why it should be reserved only for situations which have direct effect on the organization (and/or its editors, in the case of DMOZ).
With enough open (as in speech) organizations touching enough people in the world, both major and minor misbehavior by governments around the would could be brought to light in this way.
Where's the news? I see four links in the summary and none of them points to the news about the sentence.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
but at least he'll be out (hopefully) in 10 months. Abuses of power are rampant throughout the globe.
As a Turkish guy I can tell you PKK is a terrorist organisation now known as Kadek.. html for more info.
Guilty of killing about ~30k people including children and women.
Please see http://www.teror.gen.tr/english/organisations/pkk
Also note that USA acknowledged recently PKK/Kadek being a terrorist organization.
Never learn by your mistakes, if you do you may never dare to try again
This is could be an example of the kind, of political pressure that will make things like say wikipedia less and less of a good thing.
For example the slashdot article in the last months, where there were misinformous facts inserted. How many of these can pile up over time? If a country is suppressing all knowledge of what it really has done, and tying in information on what it wants to be seen as happening then the slow blend from one information into a misinformation can be complete.
And these are self referencing things, too, so, you find wikipedia and dmoz links and maybe some other online encyclopedias all combined together with misinformation.
How will one in the end sort it out?
The nets biggest online nude anime gallery's
The Turkish government could not have arrested Ertas if they weren't able to determine who had "inserted" the contraband information, nor would the equivalent of a freenet-based DMOZ be susceptible to coercion of any sort in pursuit of the removal any particular category.
And we're thinking of letting Turkey in the EU?
Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Remember, Freedom can't protect itself.
I'm glad I live in an open and free country like the USA where chilling tactics like this aren't used! Imagine if people were punished for merely providing a forum for other people to post information!
Oh wait
- JoeShmoe
.
-- I wonder which will go down in history as the bigger failure: the War on Drugs or the War on Filesharing
To make the absurd amounts of money that the litigius lawyers demand in court these days even more absurd, I say we convert all monetary demands to Turkish Lire. For example:
The RIAA today sued 793 more file-shares for between 2.83 and 5.67 Billion Turkish Lire each.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
You've made your point time and time again, in several different postings. The point everyone else here is trying to make is that it doesn't matter who they are, *writing about them* shouldn't be a jailable offense. What's next, throw the Encylopedia Britannica people in jail for writing about al Qaeda?
The European Community could well put
some pressure on the country or maybe
bounce Yurkey out of the EC.
How soon a wrongly sentenced person
might be released from prison is,
of course, another matter.
Besides, Bush wants them in, so it cannot be right. He is probably hoping this to have a destabilizing and/or paralyzing influence on the entire EU...
This sounds like a case for The European Cort of Human Rights. Turkey is very eager to join the EU and recently got promises that they could at least start talks with the EU about membership. This was after the EU recognized that Turkey had done progress with regards to human rights (they have had a very dark past with regards to womens' rights, minorities rights, police torture of dissidents, forbidding kurds to publish media in their own language etc). The EU have said that they have to do more though, there are still incidents of torture in Turkish prisons for instance, and opression of kurds.
With the political preassure on the Turkish government, this guy might actually have a chance if enough people raise hell.
I personally will write letter to the court about this case, and I will also contact Amnesty International in Sweden about this.
I urge other Slashdot readers to take similar action.
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
My grandfather was an I.R.A. terrorist who fought in the Irish War of Independence (1919-21). The Catholic Church excommunicated him for his allegianaces too. Oh and he certainly killed plenty of Black and Tans.
Oh, but then the I.R.A. won the war, and he got a medal and a soldier's war pension, and the Catholic Church reinstated him. He never bothered with the Church again or with collecting his pension.
Today's terrorist could be tommorow's war hero. The British government even today would have you think that my grandfather was a terrorist, but the Irish nation is living proof that it isn't always so clear cut. It's terribly important that people decide for themselves who are the terrorists and who are not. Governments that think that they can decide for their citizens are merely tyrants, and tyrants often fall when they become intolerable.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
Well, you better be careful then - maybe you should have posted anonymously and taken the necessary precautions (proxies etc).
After all your country might decide to put you in jail since you are providing information about them just like your fellow countryman who's going to prison for 10 months.
Unless there is PROOF he is supporting those terrorist organizations, I don't see how he deserves to be jailed for 10 months.
If there isn't any evidence, then your government is fascist, and by defending their actions you are supporting them.
It would get out that NORWEIGIAN RAPPERS were making threats about George W. Bush? I didn't even know there were Norweigian rappers until this thread!
stuff
No, it didn't and reacts angrily when there is any commemorance of the fact. Some time ago in a beautiful Polish city of Kraków members of Armenian minority wanted to organize a 'remembrence day' for the massacre. The Turkish embassy protested strongly enough to make it troublesome for the Armenians to make a public ceremony.
"Long run is a misleading guide to current affairs. In the long run we are all dead." (John Maynard Keynes)
obligatory "I'll get flamed for this" statement aside...
What's with the age-old "they killed women and children" stuff ?
In war and terror, women and children *kill*.
In war and terror, women and children get killed.
If I were an Israeli borderguard and a woman strapped with explosives runs towards me, I would... kill them.
If I were a Sudan military or somesuch and a rebel child points an AK47 at me ready to fire, I would... shoot them in the legs, hopefully, but good chance I'd aim for the chest due to the larger surface area and it'd probably... kill them.
These particular 'women and children' statements are hollow when put into perspective this way, in my opinion.
Now you may not share that point of view, or you may point out that these are "innocent women and children". Perhaps or, in the case of terrorist attacks, likely so. But does that mean the men were not innocent ? Does it mean that the loss of their life is somehow not as disturbing/devastating as that of the women and children ?
Just my thoughts...
Those attacked call them terrorists, those attacking call themselves freedom fighters, I just call them guerillia warriors and leave the morality of their cause for the historians.
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
Why don't you try and form a nazi web site in germany and tell me that you are democratic. Go ahead and make sure you deny the holocaust never happened too. Let's see how long that web site stays up and how long it takes to haul your ass to jail.
europeans sure are sanctimonius bastards, I guess your shit don't stink huh?
evil is as evil does
About a year and a bit ago, Sherman Austin was arrested and ended up doing about a year for providing a link on a website to another website with info on making molotov cocktails.
,years ago, a guy did a long sentence for providing information on how to legally avoid voting (compulsary voting in australia).
When Ashcrofts boys leant on him and threatened him with charges of terrorism, he made a plea bargain that would get him a coupla months jail. The judge ignored the bargain and gave him a year.
Groups like the EFF have basically said if he didnt do the plea bargain , he probably would of been released on grounds of first amendment, but he plead thinking he'd only be in a short stay. Effectively the judge denied him the chance for a real defence against a long sentence.
In australia
And in britain, the servers of journalist group indymedia where siezed without explaination or warning , and now it seems without legal grounds.
Journalists are arrested *daily* around the world for writing articles that offend governments.
Turkey aint the only ones up to this sort of crap.
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
Unfortunately as a US taxpayer, I have to finance US military aid to Turkey to the tune of billions of dollars. Locking up people who write about the Kurds in Turkey is small potatos, the Turks have been massacring Kurds for years. If anyone remembers, they even invaded Iraq (which the US administration didn't want) just to kill Kurds that were in Iraq. This is the thing that Saddam Hussein was lambasted for - gassing Kurds (although the US sent him helicopters after he did that of course too). Yet the Turks have been doing it, are doing it, and will be doing it. This never appears on the US corporate media of course, just the tragedy that a candidate not on the privatization fast track might win the Ukranian election.
An amazing thing about Turkey is its attitude to foreigners: it's warm, caring and hospitable. No where else in the world in my rather extensive travels have I met this level of friendliness and courtesy -- especially not in Europe. Foreigners are treated here with respect and with great interest.
Turkey is also a country bordered by aggressor nations: Iran, Iraq, Syria. In addition, it has an internal population that is not just separatist, it's terrorist. Israel is in the same boat and is much harsher on its opposing poplulation -- and yet Israel has international support.
I have watched the changes the Turkish government is making to enter the EU. You can't imagine how much pride they're swallowing to have their history and honor stepped on by Belgian chocolatiers, French pastry-chefs, German schnitzel-makers, English fish-and-chips vendors... There is NO WAY that any of you would tolerate such treatment in your own countries. Further -- the rank-and-file Turk doesn't want EU membership.
Nobody seems to complain about the Turks when they're assisting US/NATO military operations, disallowing the transit through their waters of former Soviet aircraft carriers on their way to the Red Chinese military, managing the flow of Iraqi oil to the West...
I am saddened by all your ignorance. Your education on Turkey has come from watching "Baron Munchausen" and "Midnight Express" too many times ("Midnight Express" is a hugely FALLACIOUS piece of shit, btw).
Right now Turkey is extremely sensitive to criticism about human rights violations since they are applying for EU membership. This is quite controversial, so it's easy to find politicians who could have an interest in bringing this case to the forefront. Try to find the representatives involved in foreign affairs.
Disclaimer: I'm a supporter of Turkey's EU membership, but I'm an even greater supporter of free speech.
Any sufficiently advanced libertarian utopia is indistinguishable from government.
This is why the EU won't let Turkey join. If you want to be taken seriously in the international community, you can't do things like this.
We complain about our loss of freedom in the US, but I don't think something like this would happen here. We are slightly freer than Europe and Turkey.
My other car is first.
Already in place. It's called "mouth-to-mouth", "face to face", "meeting in person". 6 billion users worldwide, very scalable, accessible to anyone who speaks the local lingo, free as in beer and free as in freedom, anonymous if desired (you don't know me, I don't know you, or secretly slip a note in someone's pocket), tamper-proof, available 24/7, works without electric power, earthquake and flood resistant, and can be secured very well against wiretapping.
Drawbacks: moderate efficiency, high latency, low bandwidth, machine-readability stinks. Use when non-machine readable information exchange is desired, or when all else fails.
As a turkish citizen, even posting with my real name for years..
I'd love to participate in this discussion, ask about how come turkish media is cencored etc or replying to each clueless european which hates Turkey for some funny reason and jumping to this discussion about how disgusting thing Turkey did to poor(!) category editor etc.
The problem is... I don't want to. I don't care. I stopped doing such stuff years ago.
As an unimportmant note, can I BEG you people not to compare Mandela to PKK/KADEK? I don't remember Mandela ordered black people to burn schools, kill teachers, kill all village only because they participated in election...
I mean, for my stomach's sake, don't make me disgusted.
>>
Kurds are an ethnic minority, like jews were in nazi germany - a Kurd cannot decide to stop being a kurd, no less than I can stop being a caucasean.
>>
That is exactly what the Nazis were saying: Jews are a ethnic group, a race. While the jewish religion has some disturbing conceptions of heritage and blood-lineage it is possible to become a member of a different religion and cease to be jewish. According to the local synode council it is much harder for a christian to become a jew than vice versa.
Whatever, considering the jews an ethnic minority is making the Nazi point.
And on a side note: explain "ethnic". Thank you.
Inflamatory perhaps.
Branding not one but two whole ethnic groups as terrorists is a typical fascist tactic.
Well done, we know how your boat rocks.
To further add to your public humillation then you go on a cheap tirade against people form other European countries (did you notice I wrote "other", because I believe to deny Turkish European heritage is foolish), yet another fascist tactic.
The part of Turkish history and "honour" that Turkey have to swallow is the worst part of it: torture, military dictatorships, ethnic discrimination against Kurds (they did not have schools where their language was spoken for example), lack of free speech.
If Turkey expects to join an organization whith a certain outlook of the World then they should fit that outlook or stay away.
It is not the EU who is eager to have Turkey, it is Turkey who has been pressing for EU membership.
If what they have to give up was so precious then they could decide to stay out of the EU, the EU will not invade them to force to join....
There may be people here that know not much about Turkey, but there is no worst ignorant than the one that has decided to be one, using whatever means are available to justify his own, not necessarily accurate, version of the world.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Secondly, America doesn't army PKK, they arm two Kurdish factions which divvied the Northern Iraq between themselves (and to be fair, in civil var since 1960s. Reading the history of Barzani and Talibani families is much fun, how they betrayed Kurds to Iraqi and Turkish authorities, in turn is quite fascinating).
PKK (also known as KADEK) is hated by both factions and is regarded as a terrorist organisation by all sides. Their bases in Iraq were shelled by American Army last year.
PKK's former leader, Ocalan, was captured by Turks (or handed to them, depending on which conspiracy theory you subscribe to) also was quite a shame to Kurds, after grovelling to Turkish "Ideals" when he was on trial.
The average pay is probably around $2/hour, in Istanbul. Most likely, the rest of country, which is underdeveloped, has much lower wages.
I'm sorry, the number you have dialed is an imaginary number. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and dial again.
When I was programming at USC we had some Chinese grad students come to the U.S. right after Tianenmen square. After some months I asked them what they thought of the U.S. supporting the government of China with things like most favored nation trading status.
They replied that it is absolutely a good thing. The corrupt leaders would otherwise continue to get whatever Western products they want while the average citizen would get no goods, no exposure to the West, and the Chinese economy would not do as well which would be a hardship on the working man.
In the view of these students, the U.S. has to "hold its nose while dealing with these stinky situations" because that's the only way things will improve in the world.
Correct me if im wrong, ( not knowing the entire story here ) but that is how i take the summary.
"you write/write/publish about subject xyz, we jail you'
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Dude, are you nuts? Hicks didn't just support the Taliban by editing articles about them on the internet, he fought with them against US forces. There's something of a difference there.
Hicks' incarceration is not a free speech issue - at all - it's contentious because he's not an Afghani (sp?) citizen. Either way, he's an enemy combatant, not an editor.
(N.B. All of what I've said is based off the Wikipedia article, if it is faulty than my analysis of the situation is likely to be as well.)
--
lds
"If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have no need for anonymity."
Slashdot needs to start posting more of these articles from around the world. The less astute among us will still cling to their lack of sensibilities on this subject, but people must start to realize that people really are persecuted for unpopular opinions (Your terrorist is my freedom fighter).
The more pervasive we make anonymity and cryptography everywhere, the easier it will be to protect people that need or deserve to be protected.
And even learned the language and can still speak it a bit now, ten years later. You obviously know very little about Turkey if you claim that Turkish prisons weren't that bad. I knew from quite a few turks who had landed up in them (and it isn't that hard to land up in a Turkish prison, just piss someone with money or influence off and bob's your uncle) that they were and are very harsh places.
I also had some Kurdish friends who ran a restaurant, and they were regularly rounded up and stuffed into prison whenever the PKK had done something again. In fact the only local Kurd who wasn't regularly rounded up was the local mafia boss who had, wait for it, money and influence.
There are very nice and friendly Turks, but there's one hell of a lot of fascist bigotted corrupt arseholes as well.
The guy did NOT write about the PKK, not even give a link to PKK related issues. The sites he listed were entirely about Kurdish culture and language. The category he edited is the Turkish equvalent of Turkey/Ethnical Groups/Kurds
There is an ongoing campaign to close down the whole World/Kurdish branch of the Open Directory Project. See details here: http://www.kurdmedia.com/news.asp?id=3341 (note: I personally don't agree with the term "fascist")
The campaign itself is here: http://www.kampanyaturk.gen.tr/kampanya.php?id=25
This is not about terrorism, it is entirely about free spreech.
Erdal Ronahi
- This compares in no way to bringing charges against groups that post the addresses of doctors along with the suggestion that they should be punished. Even had the man directly posted a political rant about the plight of the Kurds, the difference between saying "abortion is wrong, and we should stand against people who do it" and "abortion, which John Smith of 1 Main St practices (bastard should pay for what he's done (wink, wink)) is wrong," is monumental under the laws of any civilized nation.
- We're talking about editing links and summary descriptions, people, please try to keep that in mind when replying.
- The Kurds are, according to Wikipedia, "an ethnic group of Iranian origin (itself a branch of the larger Indo-European family), comprised of (according to some sources) about 25 million people, primarily in Iraq, Iran, Turkey, and Syria [...] Kurdish guerillas launched attacks on Turkish targets in 1984, and since then they have fought against the Turkish government for independence and the right to be educated in Kurdish schools, with little success." You can see why the Turks are not particularly fond of the Kurds, but at the same time that in no way excuses this behavior.
- Speaking of Wikipedia, no this doesn't bode ill for Wikipedia and other Wikis. Revision histories and revision editing are an increasingly sophisticated area of Wiki development and Wikipedia does a very good job of reverting changes that are motivated by non-factual concerns. In fact, it's generally easier for honest innacuracy (e.g. what the ex-Brittanica editor pointed out previously on Slashdot) to sneak in than deliberate mistruths in a controvercial subject (exactly because it IS controvercial).
Thanks and carry on.So after using slashdot more then 6 years I got news about MY country...
And I see lots of comments about Turkey and thoose PKK terrorists...
Sorry guys your knowladge about Turkey and history just noting. Let me give some Turkish information to you.
Remember this is Turkey, not USA not EU. Our first priorty is keep country together, one piece at whatever its cost.
After World War I, Ottoman Empire was collapse, major European countries capture every location of Turkey. Our ancestors (including Kurds) fougth to get back our freedom. In our freedom war European nations ignite every minor culture in Turkey to weaken freedom fighters, there are lots of revolts against to new goverment founded by freedom fighters and all of them failed and their cost too high.
After the won our freedom, new goverment create new vision to unification the country. Because Ottoman Empire was multi-culture nation (like today's USA) and when times become worst every part of the nation wants make their way and cannot became together to act against enemy. To avoid this Mustafa Kemal ATATURK creates new vision around Turk and Turkish language. The nation has upper ID around to be Turk also people has own minor culture ID but non of them above the country or country unification or coutry goals.
So this nev vision works perhaps may not in best condition and its works. After 81 years, 3 military coups, lots of terror and anarchy we still one piece.
When Ottoman Empire collapsed, European Nations and Russia take parts of Ottoman Empire other than current Turkey. So look most of them, pain, blood, war still continues. That chaos created by those MODERN WEST because of OIL.
And we got tons of evidence USA, Grece and other European Nations support PKK/Kadek (AKA Baby Killers) in past to weaken Turkey.
Our law system may not be perfect and that guy may goes prison because of the some stupid goverment officals (I thing you got same stories). And this isn't mean we are bad guys, we try to make them better we try to understand others.
And I suggest you to do same, to understand us.
We, The Turks owner of the best landscape of Old Eart. Our position is wery near of all major oil stocks in Asia and Middle East. Our lands is soil and fertile. We are middle of the WEST and EAST.
We are willing to give all to keep this country to be unite and one piece.
I'm writing this note as a Turkish guy who currently do his military service in these one of the hot areas.
[My english is better than most other people's Turkish, so please point out mistakes politely. Thank you.]