A Background of a 'Background Checker'

pamri writes "The Times of India profiles Jay Patel, of Abika, a firm that specializes in background checks, personality profiles, satellite or aerial Photos of any location besides other services in the US. It is now venturing into other countries including Canada and India. Abika is already facing protests from Canadian Privacy groups for breaching the Canadian Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act"

Comments

Personality profile?

[REBloomfield]

Hell, Google will do a damn good job of that. Hundreds of USENET posts and forum posts and website things, you can find most of my life out there on big ol' web.....

Re:Personality profile?

[Anonymous Coward]

So.. How're your tropical fish doing..? :)

Re:Personality profile?

[garcia]

And that's exactly what companies do when they interview you. I have personally had three interviews and found that typically *after* you have the interview a Google referrer shows up in your logs from the interviewing company.

I know one guy on IRC that interviewed with a company and they spent a good amount of time passing around the link to his gallery (mostly pertaining to the pictures of the large gauges in his ears).

One interviewer checked my site before I came in (and I knew it) and he said that they didn't hire pot smokers. He assumed I was a pot smoker because I was a Grateful Dead fan.

Just remember that you may or may not be hired due to interpretations of your "web presence" regardless of whether or not it's actually how you live your life.

Re:Personality profile?

[g0at]

One interviewer checked my site before I came in (and I knew it) and he said that they didn't hire pot smokers. He assumed I was a pot smoker because I was a Grateful Dead fan.

Did you respond that it was fine since you never work for people who beat their wives anyway?

-ben

Re:Personality profile?

[abysmilliard]

This is one incident where being named Jones makes me happy.

I can never find myself on Google, even with my full name. Sometimes not even with the city I'm in.

All those years bemoaning the mundanity of my name, and it turns out it may someday become my greatest defense against the All-Seeing Eye of Google

Re:Personality profile?

[Inda]

RE: R. E. Bloomfield Personality Profile

Hi! Remember me? Remember when we robbed the local 24hr garage? I still think about the blood pouring from that blind old aged pensioner in the wheelchair. I thought her head was going to pop when you stamped on it for the third time!

Did you ever get away with the drug smuggling operation you were running? I told the police that you were the lowest on the ladder - I think they bought it. I didn't read any newspaper stories so I'm guessing you're OK..?

Who would have thought that, after all these years, I'd find you through Google.

How's the job hunting going?

Re:Personality profile?

[REBloomfield]

dammit.... busted......

My Fortress of Solitude

[10101001011]

Of Ice, Snow and the Eskimo (Inuit) is finally succumbing to being invaded by Americans (for flu vaccine, for our natural resources, and now for our privacy). Oh great, we get to become the 52nd State!

(Iraq is 51st ;) )

Re:My Fortress of Solitude

[Citizen of Earth]

Oh great, we get to become the 52nd State!

Imagine another blue state with the population of California. I doubt that the present administration would want that.

Recourse

[Savant-Ben]

People may be shouting about it, but what international laws prevent this? Espionage? Isn't that for state bodies though.

Outsourcing Privacy.

[Anonymous Coward]

"It is now venturing into other countries including Canada and India. Abika is already facing protests from Canadian Privacy groups for breaching the Canadian Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act"

So in other words. Privacy (getting around) is being outsourced.

Welcome to the Brave New World. Hope everyone brought an antacid?

Re:Outsourcing Privacy.

[superpulpsicle]

Who cares. Our credit card companies have more information about us than you can imagine.

This was bound to happen

[Large Bogon Collider]

Since they are not a Canadian enitiy, they are not bound by Canadian laws. As such, they are not accountable to any but likely much less strict Indian laws. So how does one deal with this? Either 1) Make whomever uses the service (in Canada) be liable, 2) enact international laws via UN or such, or 3) stick head in ground and hope problems go away. This is another problem that comes with being a global community.

Re:This was bound to happen

[10101001011]

I am not sure I understand what you are saying; the Canadian Privacy Act forces ALL corporate entities to destroy any personal data, regardless of where your main office is. If they intend to merely profile Canadians for their business venture, then they would be liable to any laws that are imposed on people conducting business in Canada that are from outside the country.

Re:This was bound to happen

[Umbral Blot]

yes, but how would canada enforce this law if they never set foot in Canada. extridition? I don't think that would sit well with other governments.

Re:This was bound to happen

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you a a lawyer? I'm not. But I am a Canadian law student. So I probably know more about the law, particularly Canadian law, than 99% of the posters on this board. Which isn't saying much, I admit.

That said, with respect, you're very wrong.

As a matter of law, you can always bring a claim against a foreign defendant in your own jurisdiction. The threshold issue will be whether your jurisdiction is the appropriate venue to pursue the claim.

Incidentally, I don't think the problem is so much PIPEDA as defamation. If someone publishes inaccurate and defamatory information about me, I can sue their pants off, whether I'm in Canada or the US. But I'd probably want to do it in Canada, since US libel laws are pretty defendant-friendly.

If you succeed, however, you'd have to enforce the judgment in the defendant's jurisdiction, which could be problematic.

Incidentally, although the Times of India is profiling this fellow, the company is based in Wyoming (or so claims their WHOIS record). One would go after the corporate person, I would think, so at the very least, people can sue the corp under Wyoming/US law.

If, for any reason, you think I'm full of it, then note that Americans regularly sue Canadians in American courts. Right now there's a great case about a junkyard owner in Virginia suing CIBC (one of Canada's largest banks) in negligence for mistakenly sending faxes containing the bank's customers' information to his business.

However, IANAL. None of the foregoing is legal advice.

he just doesn't get it

[tuxette]

Patel though sees it differently. The root cause of insecurity and intolerance in this world, he argues, is that we know so little about each other. If everyone knew everything about everyone else, or at least had access to such information, there would be less problems. Besides, why try and hide things, when it is becoming harder and harder to do so?

Perhaps the reason why we know so little about each other is that people feel the need to sneak around and dig up dirt on others and then use that information against them? If you truly wanted to know more about someone, then open your mouth and ask that someone.

Re:he just doesn't get it

[The Cydonian]

If you truly wanted to know more about someone, then open your mouth and ask that someone.

Heheh. I speak as an Indian of course, but I believe this is more a cultural thing than anything else; somehow, as the Brit-born Indian author Ruskin Bond puts it, being nosey is a sign of friendship among Indians. You can immediately notice it if you, say, enter an intra-city bus in India; you get scanned from head to toe by everyone around. Most international travellers get spooked by that, but really, curiousity is, apparently, a sign of friendship.

Of course, intra-bus cultural nuances get complicated once you extrapolate them to the Internet and get professional about all this snooping.

how much longer

[wcitechnologies]

How much longer will it be until we have a worldwide "people" database? How long until it has 6.x billion entries?

I hate to be the one running around with a tin foil hat here, but I don't like this idea one bit. Although some see huge privacy implications in this, my personal reasons are more religious.

How long until each entry has an X, Y, and Z associated with it?

not bound by laws? eh?

[192939495969798999]

Other comments have said basically that anyone whose company's not based in country X doesn't have to abide by the laws of country X when acting within the borders of country X. Granted, aerial photos is a bit of a grey area, but within the concept that in order to take a picture of Canada to that resolution, you'd pretty much be intentionally invading Canadian airspace, at least in principle, then it's pretty much like jaywalking in Germany but saying that since you're American, you don't have to abide by German laws.

This guy hates privacy

[Ironsides]

If everyone knew everything about everyone else, or at least had access to such information, there would be less problems.

Name one that would be solved this way.

Besides, why try and hide things, when it is becoming harder and harder to do so?

Because I don't wan't everyone knowing a lot about me. I like people not knowing stuff about me. Particularly things like my income (why should anyone care buy me and the IRS), ex-wives, speeding tickets, where I live when I don't know them, who I talk to and a whole host of other things. If I choose to tell someone or post something on the internet that is fine by me. But I don't want them finding out info any other way.

At least when I submit to a government background check I have to give them permision first.

Expectation of Privacy, Revisited the 1000th Time

[Onimaru]

Okay, so let me get this straight. A company is searching through and compiling publicly available information, and then making some TheSpark-style random conjectures based on these data?

Where is the expectation of privacy here? Do I have a (reasonable) expectation that data about me on the internet are private? Even my grandmother can tell you that that's ridiculous. This is the cyberspace equivalent of looking through my garbage, not breaking into my house. I hope this action falls on its face, because people providing information aggregation of all kinds are a very valuable, growing part of the coolness the internet has to offer and I want to encourage them in any way possible, even if it does mean that someone might know I bought a USB Christmas tree off ThinkGeek.

Two qualifications, though:

1. I hope this site also logs visits to...this site. It would be neat to know if my prospective employer is vetting prospective employees without telling them. That would speak to their trustworthiness, I would think.
2. I also hope that the fact that their "psychological profiles" are basically for-fun-only personality tests is stated plainly. This is one place where legal weasel-words would make me very happy. This goes under the generic heading of "You can be as stupid as you want, but please don't make other people stupid, too."

will it be run on mysql?

[mgkimsal2]

select * from people where id=666;

you don't get it

[tuxette]

The problem is putting this bit and that bit of information about you in a profile and making an assumption about your personality and behavior based on this profile. Keep in mind that these bits of information are more often than not collected non-contextually. And more often than not, using this information against you.

For example, borrowing a good example used here earlier, if you are a big Grateful Dead fan who goes to all their concerts and runs a website dedicated to them, you are a pot smoker.

Wow

[Jakhel]

Comprehensive Background Checks, typically return Subject's Name, Aliases, AKA's Age Month & year of birth Date and Location where SSN issued. Others associated with SSN 22 year address/phone history B&W Satellite Photo of current location Nationwide Bankruptcy Search - Nationwide Judgments, Liens Search Nationwide Real Property Search Property Assessments Others listed at subjects address Possible Associates Relatives summary, names & phone numbers Voter Registrations Records Current Neighbors, Names, addresses, phones Court cases involving subject FAA registrations Drug Enforcement Agency Search FAA Airmen, FAA Aircraft Social Security Death Index Professional Licenses Internet Domain Ownership Corporate affiliations UCC filings (Business Loans) Aircraft Ownership Vessels Ownership Motor Vehicles, Motorcycles, Boats Ownership (FL, ME, MN, MS, MP, NE, NC, OH, TX, WI) Drivers License Info (FL, ID, MN, MO, OH, TX, WI) Concealed Weapons Permit (AR, FL, IN, LA, ME, ND, VA) Hunting & Fishing Permits (AK, AL, AR, CT, DE, FL, GA, IL, MA, MS, MO, MT, ND, NV, NJ, NC, OH, OK, UT, VA, WI)


It looks like IT hasn't been the only victim of offshoring. Who would have thought that BIG BROTHER would be outsourced to India too..and you can have all that information AND a psychological profile based on past actions for $140. It's like a credit report of your ENTIRE LIFE. I'm almost tempted to get one just to see why I get hired/turned down for the jobs I apply to.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

During a television interview...

[DougDew]

...that was aired recently, the founder of Abika claimed that privacy is stupid and that he doesn't believe in it. In short, he declared his hostility to the very notion of privacy.

Perhaps it would be possible to publish some of his family's private information on the web to test his conviction that privacy is stupid. Perhaps this could be done in the same way that folks published some facts from Poindexter's private life as a response to the Total Information Awareness initiative.

Also, Abika's business model depends upon privacy. In other words, in the upper right hand side of http://www.abika.com, there is a "private, confidential, guaranteed" logo, which makes sense as Abika's services would be far less attractive to customers without such a guarantee. If Jay Patel really believes that privacy is stupid, then I challenge him to publish on his website the results of all background checks. More importantly, I challenge Jay Patel to inform the targets of background checks when checks are being performed and also of the identity of the requesters of the checks. After all, the major credit reporting agencies such as TRW are now being forced to report such information to the targets of credit checks, so why should Abika be permitted to operate any differently?

Some of their other services include..

[Jakhel]

Basic Background Search (Public Records) (USA) $9.98

General Background Check (USA) $49.98

Comprehensive Background Check (USA) $69.98

Background Check including Psychological Profile (Includes Behavior History and more) (USA) $139.98

Background Search with Nationwide Criminal Record Search $99.98

Background Search with Statewide Criminal Record Search $79.98

Find / Locate this Person (Public records search only) $29.98

Verify Employment (each) $24.98

Verify Income $39.95

Property Search $24.98

Civil Court Records Search (each Court) $29.98

State Criminal Records Search (First Name, Last Name, DOB required) $39.98

County Criminal Records Search (each County) $29.98

Copies of Court Documents for criminal and civil court records $39.98

Police Reports, Accident Reports Search by County, City or License Plate Number $69.98

Search History of Employment (Public Records) (Searches Public Records and Work Databases) $49.98

Current Employment Search $149.98

Search / Verify Education & College Degrees $59.98

Find email or IM from physical address $49.95

Find Cell Phone Number, Address & Name from SSN $169.98

Search Date of Birth of this person $14.98

Search Possible Girlfriends/Boyfriends/Spouses/Roommates $99.95

Search Social Security Number $139.98

Search Utility Records (Trace person by searching Electric or Gas utility accounts) $79.98

Find Relatives (Through Public Records) $49.98

Search Family Tree Returns info on Ancestors $139.98

Physical Address from P.O.Box & Name $89.98

USA Nationwide Criminal Records Search (First Name, Last Name, DOB required) $59.98

Unconventional Behavior Search $89.98

Background Check for Canada (Please click on above link for info on this search) $119.98

Sex Offender Search (each state) $17.98

International Background Check (Each Country, Please click on above link for info on this search) $139.98

Medical Records $89.98

Statewide Marriage Records Search (CA, CO, KY, TX, ME, NV, FL) $24.98

Statewide Divorce Records Search $179.98

Statewide Marriage Records Search (Any other state except CA, CO, KY, TX, ME, NV, FL) $179.96

Find Person by their First Name & Age $39.98

Find Person by their Maiden Name $49.98

Sexual Orientation Search (Name, Address, DOB required) $49.98

Cheating Search (Relationships) (Name, Address, DOB required) $89.98

Verify Name, DOB from Picture (Checks if Name & DOB belongs to the person in the picture) $89.98

28 Hour Rush Delivery $39.95

and another thing...

[tuxette]

He noted her name tag, came home, and using his knowledge of databases and search techniques, riffled through the Internet looking up information on her. He went back a few days later and surprised Angela with details about her life. He also told her how he had found out. Three weeks later, in a story that could make a script for a date-movie, they were married.

What was it he dug up on her that made her marry a sneaky bastard like him in three short weeks? And how desperately did he need his Green Card? Or is that "none of our business?"

Permanent record

[Jakhel]

Forget google, what about all those times in elementary, middle, and high school when teachers told us that "this will go on your permanent record"? I guess they really WEREN'T bullshitting us after all. :(

Data Rape

[ObsessiveMathsFreak]

This is just data rape, pure and simple. This company is gathering vasts amounts of your personal, public and private dealings over several years and then peddling that information to souless private companies.

This is wrong pure and simple.

I don't question someone's right to have access to "specific" data about me. i.e my GP needs to know my blood type, the taxman needs to know my income, the pizza delivery boys needs to know my address. But the wholesale collection and amalgamation of every possible facet of my life by people who have no business knowing anything about me, disgusts me to my very core. No doubt Mr Patel wets himself over the prospect of getting access to embedded RFID telemetry as well.

Stalking is a crime. When stalkers are caught with pictures, diaries and details of people's whereabouts and dealings, this is usually used against them in a court case. why shouldn't the same apply to Mt Patel and his kind?

This behaviour is inexcusable. Noone needs to know this much about anyone else and those that do should be prosecuted. Persons and Companies should have the minimum amount of data possible on any one person. Data is on a need to know basis, and they don't need to know.

Of course, these dirty data raping fiends will argue on grounds of civil liberty(which they threaten), free speech(which they help to chill) and of course they play the happy smiley, "Our motives are purely innocent, you have nothing to fear" PR card, that will fool so many people.(That whole three week marraige story is probobly just a PR stunt) .They'll also bitch about how we have no right to privacy(while keeping their own records out of the public eye).

Well guess what. I have a right to dignity. And if some private company starts selling off every minutes detail about me, every action I have ever done, every rumour, everything I've said or been remotely involved in, be it happy, sad, embarrassing, glad, hopeful, disparing or just plain private, to every slobbering data hungry slimeball that comes looking for it, I consider that a pretty big dent in my personal dignity pal! See you in court!

This is only the warm up act

[HangingChad]

Consolidating all this information off shore facilities is going to be a real boon to the Chinese and Indian governments. All that juicy data on those fat and stupid Americans. And it won't cost them a penny. They'll simply help themselves to copies. No one in the companies would dare complain or refuse.

This guy is doing it here, but as the off shore trend increases the information is going to become more available to potentially hostile foreign governments.

Manage it now or pay the price later. We're already paying the price with companies like this one cropping up. This is nothing less than domestic spying.

Identity theft made easy...

[Zro Point Two]

I havn't seen anyone mention this yet, but this was the first thing I thought of.

Pay a couple bucks to this company, get complete background on someone, and then take over their life....you now know everything about them and their past, you don't even have to create things. This means that anything you say about your past can be verified as true.

The other thing that really got me going was this comment...
"Patel questions the need for restrictions on personal information, saying lack of data about people is what breeds fear and ignorance. "Most people don't care about privacy. It's the media that makes it a big hype.""

I'm sure that there are LOTS of people that care about privacy...why do you think we have curtains on our windows?

Patel sounds like a Class-A citizen.

[lysium]

The article mentions that Jay Patel saw his wife-to-be at the mall, went home and researched her on the Internet, and then returned to the mall to recite her personal life back to her. They married three weeks later.

The guy sounds like a real creep, and now he offers services like "Sexual Orientation Check." Truly disgusting.

The inside scoop on "Jay Patel"

[Anonymous Coward]

(Posting as AC for privacy reasons.)

1) Jay Patel is an alias for Sanjay Amin. (More on this in a bit)
2) Sanjay Amin started out a company called Entropy Systems, which offered a perpetual motion machine to paying customers. This was after he defaulted from school loans at the University of Minnesota. (He left the university and the state due to some disagreements with the university about his engine)
3) Using the millions of dollars he bilked out of various people and organizations primarily in the Youngstown area, Entropy Systems disappeared and became www.abika.com, a site that offered free eBooks. See the Wired article for details about the transition.
4) After deciding that free eBooks weren't very profitable, Abika.com went through various transformations until it made it to its current state of being a background investigation website.
5) To avoid connections with his questionable past, Mr. Amin now goes by the name Jay Patel.
6) Abika.com sells a combination of reports from an astrology CD-ROM that Mr. Amin has, plus actual reports from private investigators that he re-sells (without a license).

So how about that, Sanjay? How do you like your privacy now?