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More Antennas, Faster Wireless

rouge86 writes "The New Scientist has a story on how researchers broke the network speed record using a wireless network and multiple antennas. They plan to use the demonstration to show how powerful multiple antennas can be. Applications include power saving on mobile phones and reducing interference."

63 of 110 comments (clear)

  1. Wireless the wave of the future by drakethegreat · · Score: 1, Interesting

    This is just another sign that wireless is replacing wired networks around the world. I'm guessing sometime in the near future wireless will outnumber wired networks. I think that everyone can be excited about this.

    1. Re:Wireless the wave of the future by m50d · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Where this will become really interesting is when there are enough wireless networks that they all link up. Once that happens, there won't be any need for ISPs as we know them - just get your wireless box and join the big mesh that's out there. No connection fees, no censorship - then we will have a truly free internet. Transatlantic etc. links will be slower, but I'm sure that's a problem we'll overcome.

      --
      I am trolling
    2. Re:Wireless the wave of the future by souilicrepus · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They said the same about phone networks when satalites were introduced. Now our world is connected by fibre. All of these measures, wireless, ADSL, cable modems are a stopgap for the fact that fibre is still too expensive to run into every house.

      If (and when) a breakthrough is made, either with an economic optical switch or the pricing of electronic processing equipment for optical fibre, wireless will once again take a back seat.

      d

    3. Re:Wireless the wave of the future by NeoSkandranon · · Score: 1

      No connection fees and no censorship.

      No guarantee of quality of service.
      No tech support.

      Not to mention that SOME people will still have to have conventional ISP accounts, otherwise there will be no bandwidth for everyone else. These people will also likely need to have bigger and buffer hardware to handle being a data chokepoint.

      --
      If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
    4. Re:Wireless the wave of the future by Retric · · Score: 1

      There are afew basic problems with a wireless mesh network Routing, Bandwith becomes devided by the number of hops. And local bandwith devided by the number of users, and full coverage becomes limited.

      Now asuming you just wanted to talk to califona from new york and each hop got you 50 miles. That's... 2462 / 50 or 30 hops so your net bandwith would be 1/30th of the avalable bandwith asuming full coverage. Now chances are it's going to be closer to 100 hops aka not a strat line and not alwase 100 miles.

      Routing, your in the middle of a mesh network and you want to send a message to califona how is each of the ~100 hops going to know which path to take? Either each node needs to know the states of a few hunderd thousand other nodes around it or you going to start wasing a lot of bandwith on extra hops.

      Now given to options pay nothing and get say 100th the bandwith or pay 50$ an month and get full bandwith most people are going to opt for spending cash and if there spending the cash there not going to give out there bandwith for free. So unless the mesh networks start having servaces that the ISP wish to connect to your not going to see mesh networks making the internet free.

    5. Re:Wireless the wave of the future by m50d · · Score: 1

      No, the bandwidth won't be limited, true it will be the lowest of those 100 hops, but wait, there are multiple paths from NY to california and the one you use will be the fastest one, so it will even out. Since there are no wireless standards with <11mbps bandwidth, it should be 11mbps all the way, as there is usually at least one 11mbps path between any two nodes. As for routing, nodes just need to know the general direction to route in. Intelligent routing algorithms are a problem, yes, but with sensible IP allocation it should be easier. Make the first two bytes of a node's IP address have to be its lattitude and longitude. Then each node just needs to know "3>24||67>IP>>24? send east: send west, 46>16&127||110>IP>>16&127? send north: send south". That simple an algorithm and you'll only ever be going root 2 times as far as you need to, which is not too much overhead.

      --
      I am trolling
    6. Re:Wireless the wave of the future by Suidae · · Score: 1

      the most exciting one is making everything distributed. Everyone caches a bit of sites and only checks a timestamp when they get a query

      Freenet uses a scheme similar to this. Content is inserted into the network with a unique cryptographic key (*nb). The data is inserted with a 'depth' parameter, specifying an approximate TTL value for the insertion directive. Hosts along the way cache the data and pass it to the next host until the TTL expires (hosts usually, but not always, decriment the TTL). When a query for a particular key comes through, many hosts can return bits of the file. The more popular the content, the more likely it is that many hosts will have a copy.

      Of course, once content is inserted, its permanent, but there are schemes in place to handle superceding old issues.

    7. Re:Wireless the wave of the future by Retric · · Score: 1

      You total bandwith would be the bandwith of each basestation.
      First off there is more than one person using the system so divide by the number of users.
      Second devide by the number of average hops because each message needs to use bandwith from more than one network.

      Now you have 1,000,000 users over 10,000,000 10Mbits/s stattions with an average hop count of 100.

      Total bandwith = 10,000,000 * 10 Mbit = 100,000,000 Mbits/s. Each users bandwith = 100,000,000 Mbits/s / 1000,000 / users / 100 hops. = 10KB/s.

      Now you could say the number of users / node is way off but don't forget in a city you can only have so many nodes because you run out of bandwith on the air waves. So even if you wanted to add more base stations you hit limits where adding a new base station does little because you need to retransmit all its messages to other stations anyway.

  2. 3G phones by Almond+Paste · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Power saving is very welcome indeed. Today's 3G phones run out of battery in no-time.

    1. Re:3G phones by GrAfFiT · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's not a problem, considering the current 3G communications offerings, your wallet will be emptied before your battery.

    2. Re:3G phones by jacksonj04 · · Score: 1

      What model do you have? My Nokia 7600 works perfectly for a couple of days without charges - even in regular use.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
  3. Great engineering by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Informative

    For those who don't care about reading the entire article, the crux of it is:

    Recombining smaller signals in real time, however, requires considerable computing power. So the Siemens team developed new computer algorithms in order to send more data using existing hardware.

    In short: programmers managed to push existing hardware with a more efficient code. That's called hacking, albeit with a serious look, and I like that!

    --
    "A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
    1. Re:Great engineering by adeydas · · Score: 1

      short and sweet, three cheers to the engineers... i guess good code on not-so-good hardware can do wonders too... like linux on a P3 machine compared to windows XP... what do you say?!

    2. Re:Great engineering by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      [i]The researchers used three transmitting and four receiving antennas and a technique for boosting the amount of data that can be sent wirelessly[/i] So it wasn't really all due to programming, right?

      There are two kinds of hacking involved here, software and hardware. The commenter above is giving props to the programmers, because in their [apparent] opinion people don't do enough optimization. This kind of thing goes on all the time, but I guess it's good to recognize some people, as opposed to no people.

      The other side of this is that some people who understand how to make antennas had to figure out a compact array of antennas which would not need any sort of calibration and which would provide the necessary hardware to even use this software signal processing technique. Those are the people that really impress me, because I am horrible with mathematics.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Great engineering by ofdm · · Score: 1
      You can view the Siemens press release (http://www.siemens.com/index.jsp?sdc_p=cfi1232554 lmno1232554ps5uz1& ) I'm not quite sure why this is news for slashdot. Maybe it's a quite news time. A couple of points:
      1. It's not existing hardware. It needs multiple receivers and multiple transmitters.
      2. They use 100 MHz bandwidth, so would expect to get a factor of 5 increase over the 54Mbps delivered by 802.11a simply through that.
      3. They use 4x3 MIMO which has been around for a while, see particularly the BLAST work done by Chris Nicol & co at Lucent.
      (Curse the submit button being right next to the preview button)
    4. Re:Great engineering by idolcrash · · Score: 1

      I wonder if something like the Grid (similar to Seti@home and the like) could be implemented to contribute cycles to run the code. It could be one of the more interesting implementations, I would think.

    5. Re:Great engineering by Epistax · · Score: 1

      Ok, now implement the more efficient code in hardware ;)

      (Seriously-- I don't like my devices passively using processor time)

  4. duplicate post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    this is the same post, as the dec 08 slashdot post here: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/08/022625 0&from=rss/

    1. Re:duplicate post by One+of+the+abnormals · · Score: 1, Informative

      Atcually it's not; that was talking about the record they broke. This article is talking about how the actually broke it :)

      --

      2b || !2b =?
    2. Re:duplicate post by Lord_Dweomer · · Score: 1
      Do you ever wonder if Timothy just kinda searches around for his own submissions on Google, and then finds a Slashdot article to put up as news? That would certainly explain a lot around here.

      --
      Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
    3. Re:duplicate post by sootman · · Score: 1

      More editors, faster dupes! ;-)

      (A joke only ruined by the fact that this isn't actually a dupe, assuming this guy is correct.)

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  5. OFDM Has Been Around for a While by LuxuryYacht · · Score: 3, Interesting

    OFDM has been around for a while OFDM History

    It's nice to see more practical uses of it in wireless standards like WiFi IEEE 802.11a, 802.11g and in WiMax IEEE 802.16a.

    All this adds up to the death of the control by telco's in the last 100 yards of net connectivity. Go OFDM!!

    --
    Quidquid latine dictum sit altum viditur
  6. hmm.. wavelets? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Since the improvement was mainly a hack on the processing.. I'd guess that they went from some sort of fourier transform to wavelets.. wavelets have linear computational complexity (awesome) and don't have the interference problems that older signal processing algorithms have.

  7. More antennas = better? by isny · · Score: 1

    Is anyone else making the comparison between "more antennas=better" and the mach 3 razor "more blades=better"?

    1. Re:More antennas = better? by Zorilla · · Score: 1

      I was actually thinking about this bike. Why stop at 1300cc's when you can have...uhhh..that thing has to be at least 15 liters.

      --

      It would be cool if it didn't suck.
    2. Re:More antennas = better? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Having more antennas allows you to do interesting and useful things such as cancelling out multipath and multiuser interference. This has been studied for a long time now.

      The three blades give a better shave since when you take one stroke, it takes three. Having four blades, however, is getting a little ridiculous.

    3. Re:More antennas = better? by ssimontis · · Score: 1

      More antennas isn't anything new. Have you seen the Pre-N wireless routers? 3 antennas instead of 2, and they are faster.

      --
      Scott Simontis
  8. Wireless speed record means... by IO+ERROR · · Score: 2, Funny

    ...now I have to buy a new phone again.

    --
    How am I supposed to fit a pithy, relevant quote into 120 characters?
  9. Interference by Barryke · · Score: 2, Informative
    Applications include power saving on mobile phones and reducing interference.
    Reducing interference.

    And increasing it for the neighbour, unless he also has multiple antennas.
    Wich gets us back to the start, only with even more interference...
    --
    Hivemind harvest in progress..
    1. Re:Interference by Svartalf · · Score: 1

      Actually, what multiple antennas let you do is reduce multipath issues considerably when you combine them with DSP techniques. Two antennas doesn't increase interfereance- all it does is allow you to emit more RF power into the air effectively. Same goes for more than two.

      The main reason for not using multiple antennas has been cost and you really couldn't use them for recieveing in the past because of things like multipath playing merry hob with your reception. Nowadays, things are quite different.

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  10. Hear! Multiple multiple antennas. by mukund · · Score: 1

    Porcupines discovered this way before these researchers did.

    --
    Banu
  11. So wait... by t_allardyce · · Score: 2, Funny

    Its not the size of your antenna, its the number you have??

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    This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
  12. Obligatory Wardriving Post by drewzhrodague · · Score: 1

    Of course, this means more fodder for us wardrivers -- more antennas mean more UINs to map!

    --
    Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
  13. They should both impress you... by Svartalf · · Score: 1

    It's mathematics and a solid understanding of signal propagation that made the antennas possible.

    It's mathematics and tuning of the algorithms used to work through that mathematics that made the DSP firmware possible. You have to thoroughly understand the math behind the DSP stuff to optimize it right.

    Just because there's code involved, doesn't mean that there were just code-monkeys doing the work.

    --
    I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
    1. Re:They should both impress you... by jhack · · Score: 1

      Here here! There is a fair (and by fair, I mean substantial) amount of information-theoretic work going on here.

      Simplying combinging the signals doesn't get the job done in MIMO or phased-array situations. These people who did the real work certainly were not code monkeys.

      --
      - Jack Holloway
  14. OFDM != MIMO / SIMO Antenae by Mateorabi · · Score: 1

    OFDM has nothing to do with mulitple antenae. You can send OFDM signals across a channel with a single RX and TX antena. OFDM is simply a convinient way to turn a freq-selective fading channel into multiple, independent flat fading channels by interpreting the data as the IFFT of the TX signal. Spreading the data out over frequency can be used to get good diversity and thus avoid bad fades.

    Using multiple antenae is also a good way to get diversity in a way that complements OFDM (spatial vs. freqency). More diversity in an RF channel is almost always good. The exception is when it forces you to spread your energy over multiple sources too mutch. However multiple RX antena don't increase energy use, instead they just absorb more energy, and in a manner that is better than a single antena with twice the gain. This is because while one antena may be in a bad fade (a destructive multipath null), chances are much lower that both will be in a bad fade.

    Multiple TX antenae can be used too, but the implementation (and decoding) gets mutch more complex as the article suggests: you need lots of computing power to grab the bits out of multiple simultaneous (but cooperating) TX sources. You also spread your energy with multiple TX antenae, which lowers overall SNR.

    --
    "You saved 1968." - Ms. Valerie Pringle to the crew of Apollo 8

  15. Re:Wireless the wave of the future-Faithful. by gomiam · · Score: 2, Insightful
    A few quasi-literal citations:
    • Asimov: the main characteristic of the religion of science is that it works.
    • R.A. Salvatore (OK, so I'm talking Dungeons & Dragons here, so what): Illusion can kill you, if you believe in them; reality will kill you, whether you believe it or not.
    • Arthur C. Clark (IIRC): any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic

    Ok, after the (mostly) needless citing is done, I find it nave to have faith in science. Then again, it seems to be the most powerful metatool we have found. I call it a metatool for it allows you to both create another tools and to refine itself into being an even better tool. Perhaps Chemistry won't solve all mankind's problems, on its own, or perhaps it will, or perhaps solving that will require several sciences combined. I can't see that far. Science may not be the answer to all (because we know the answer is 42 -see Douglas Addams-), but it's the best approximation we have found yet.

  16. Re:Wireless the wave of the future-Faithful. by m50d · · Score: 1

    Are you sure there couldn't be a mesh? With a good enough antenna, all you need is almost-line-of-sight (diffraction can get you around a couple of hills before you lose all your signal). K5 is just talking about a new wireless standard that lets you signal 50km. Surely a mesh could form if the cells were that big?

    --
    I am trolling
  17. How is this something new? by havock · · Score: 1

    I learnt a couple of years ago in Telecommunications class about the benefit of more than one antenna for wireless communications. Maybe the big deal is that products are starting to come out to the market. The technology however, is nothing new.

    1. Re:How is this something new? by Pinkfud · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, ham radio operators have a saying that's old as the hills: If you want more signal, stick up more metal.

      --
      The world is my oyster. That's why it's always in a stew.
  18. The principle is nothing new by Linker3000 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I see nothing new in this principle - anyone knows that more aerials are better - in fact, if you increase the number of aerials so that their combined length (l) matches the exact distance between the sender and the receiver (ie: l = d), AND then you place each aerial in and end-to-end configuration so that electrons can flow in an unbroken path from transmitter to receiver then you have a very efficient data transmission medium - heck, the principle even works with optical fibre and photons too.

    --
    AT&ROFLMAO
    1. Re:The principle is nothing new by Interrupt18 · · Score: 1

      At high frequencies, the attenuation would be pretty bad.

    2. Re:The principle is nothing new by flynns · · Score: 1

      in fact, if you increase the number of aerials so that their combined length (l) matches the exact distance between the sender and the receiver (ie: l = d), AND then you place each aerial in and end-to-end configuration so that electrons can flow in an unbroken path from transmitter to receiver... 'scuse me for being an idiot... ...but doesn't that desecribe a -wire-?

      --
      'If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.'
    3. Re:The principle is nothing new by Linker3000 · · Score: 1

      ...but doesn't that desecribe a -wire-?

      Umm..yeah..that was the..er..joke!

      --
      AT&ROFLMAO
    4. Re:The principle is nothing new by flynns · · Score: 1

      Right. Of course. I knew that!!

      I was just..uh...testing!

      I'll be in the corner over there.

      --
      'If you're flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.'
  19. Re:Ya its great by 0racle · · Score: 1

    This is where VPNs and encryption come in.
    And the number of places deploying VPN's and encryption over their wireless networks are... ? Have you ever walked around a city with a wireless device?

    still have the issue of authentication
    There used to be the issue of access before you had to deal with the weak authentication thats set up in most places. Admins are bending over backwards to open holes as they deploy wireless networks.

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  20. FTFA: 50 MBits Average for Wireless Networks? by Omega1045 · · Score: 1
    By contrast, the average wireless computer network can send only around 50 megabits (50 million bits) of data per second.

    I would think that a mean network would be the 802.11b network running 11MBits, not 50. Are there really that many 802.11g networks out there, pushing the average up to 50, or is this reporter just clueless because their office runs around 50? I used to travel quite a bit, and what networks I did run into at coffee shops and airports were 11 Mbit. Do others have a different view than this?

    --

    Great ideas often receive violent opposition from mediocre minds. - Albert Einstein

    1. Re:FTFA: 50 MBits Average for Wireless Networks? by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

      Well, you're right that there's a lot of 11b hardware out there ... it's been around for a while. But given that I just bought a D-Link 802.11g router for $40, I figure the the old stuff will disappear just as fast. Probably about the time I click the Submit button.

      --
      The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  21. Wait... by Kurayamino-X · · Score: 2, Funny

    so now i need six more pringles cans for my end alone?

    --
    ...I got nothing.
  22. yay no more wires, only mass attena arrays by zenst · · Score: 1

    So we replace wires with wireless but double up on the amount of terminated wires (ie antenna's), cute. Aint you all glad somebody never put a RS232 on the back of a microwave oven, as I'm sure somebody would convert it into a crude basestation :)

  23. yay no more wires, only mass attena arrays by zenst · · Score: 1

    So we get rid of all the wiring inside and terminated it on the outside a few doxen times instead and coat in plastic, and people get upset about mobile phone masts, boy are they in for a new shock soon when Joe Smith turns his house into a hedgehog array.

  24. What happens when... by StaticFish · · Score: 1

    we all turn into Radioactive man. Or should I say... cancer man

    --
    - There's no place like 127.0.0.1
    1. Re:What happens when... by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      Us geeks finally evolve effective x-ray vision, and bring about the death of the Internet because nobody's downloading porn any more. :)

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
  25. Re:Isn't this the concept... by ScrewMaster · · Score: 1

    Exactly! Except that nowadays you don't have to have your wife or your kid up on the roof holding the antenna in the sweet spot so you can watch the game with your friends ... software does it automatically. Once again advanced technology comes in to improve the quality of our lives.

    --
    The higher the technology, the sharper that two-edged sword.
  26. This is already under consideration... by Bored+Huge+Krill · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...for standardization as 802.11n

    Proposals were submitted back in August for 802.11n, and all proposals still in the running use MIMO+OFDM (the technique described here). Hardware supporting various prototypes is already around in a usable form.

    It seems unlikely that 3x4 MIMO will be around in the first wave, due to cost constraints - 2x3 (2 tx, 3 rx) is the most likely initial configuration.

    1. Re:This is already under consideration... by sleepy-monkey · · Score: 1

      Belkin is currently selling a 2x3 MIMO+OFDM wireless lan product. It is compatible with 11b and 11g devices. You need another Belkin MIMO-OFDM device to take full advantage of the MIMO-OFDM modes.

  27. Hmmm. by Niet3sche · · Score: 1

    This reeks of channel-bonding to me. How (if it is) is this different?

    1. Re:Hmmm. by Bored+Huge+Krill · · Score: 1

      it's different from channel bonding because the independent streams in a MIMO system use the same channel. It uses spatial diversity, not frequency diversity, to increase the channel capacity.

  28. Power to the people vs. Where are the IT jobs? by Thecarpe · · Score: 1

    We can't disparage the telco's control too much. Though tyranical at times, there is a financial backbone that we don't want to break. We're pushing for a Marxian revolt on the telco's to go Robin Hood on internet bandwidth, but we're griping at an alarming rate about IT jobs going overseas and jobs being lost in the IT sector. We want the technology, but we don't want to pay for it...people want what you make at your job for free too.

    This is the same entitlement scenario that was looked at with MP3s and the iPod years back. Internet bandwidth was funded by someone. Music was created by someone. We think we're entitled to anything that can possibly be accessed for free just on the principle of the matter. To conceptualize - on the day you can give away your own job services for free, start demanding free internet and music.

  29. Re:Wireless the wave of the future-Faithful. by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Hmm.. science vs. religion again.

    Suppose someone is sick with a disease. The religionist's approach is to pray over the person, or cast some spells, or some such nonsense. Occassionally, the person will get better, and the religionist will say it's because his god did it. Most of the time, the person dies, and the religionist says the god willed it.

    Then a scientist comes around. He determines the disease is caused by a bacteria. He does experiments, and figures out how to kill the bacteria using penicillin. He gives these to the disease sufferers, and they all get better. Then, the scientist goes further, and isolates some of these bacteria, and shows what they look like under a microscope. He makes a video from the microscope showing how the bacteria these people were infected with dies when it's introduced to penicillin.

    Where's the need for "faith"? And where's the need for religion? I don't need faith when I flush my toilet that it'll work properly. I don't say prayers when it stops up. I understand how a toilet works, and when it doesn't, I fix it, usually with a new flapper valve or with a plunger.

    Why is it that simple-minded people always want to appeal to "faith" instead of taking the time to learn how things really work?

  30. NetZero in a broadband world by tepples · · Score: 1

    Now given to options pay nothing and get say 100th the bandwith or pay 50$ an month and get full bandwith most people are going to opt for spending cash

    NetZero: $10/mo for 48 kbps. Comcast: $46/mo for 3000 kbps. Trust me, people will put up with 1/60 the speed to save cash. And are you sure it'll be 1/100 the bandwidth, or just 100 times the latency?

    So unless the mesh networks start having servaces that the ISP wish to connect to your not going to see mesh networks making the internet free.

    Some universities will have both Internet and Meshnet. Watch students set up gateways as a class project.

    1. Re:NetZero in a broadband world by Retric · · Score: 1

      Ok say MeshNet had a bandwith of 50kbps I think it would be around 1-30Kbps to the internet but that's a difrent issue.
      Now most people would pay for high speed of some sort 10,000 Kbps connections are out in some areas for 60$ a month so everyone that's still useing a modem by choice would stick with mesh net everyone else would have real internet acsess.

      A nation wide Meshnet would have horable bandwith but within a city it might not be that bad. Say you had 10,000 people on mesh net in New York at anyone time do you think a few Universities would band together and provide free internet acsess to all these people? Bandwith cost's money and there is little to no reason why you would set up a backbone for all these people instead of telling them to go get a 3g phone or whatever.

  31. Re:Wireless the wave of the future-Faithful. by Suidae · · Score: 1


    Why is it that simple-minded people always want to appeal to "faith" instead of taking the time to learn how things really work?


    I was going to look into that once, but I decided it was easier to just believe that they are all simple-minded.