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U.S. Makes Plans for GPS Shutdown

sailforsingapore writes "Apparently, President Bush is drawing up plans to disable sections of the GPS network in the event of a terrorist attack. The rationale seems to be that it would prevent said terrorists from using the GPS system to direct some sort of attack. The plan would shut down access not only to the GPS satellite network, but projects like the EU's Galileo. Ironically, this comes alongside the President's plan to strengthen the GPS network against deliberate jamming."

43 of 945 comments (clear)

  1. Why is that ironic? by PhysicsGenius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Both actions make GPS harder to use as a weapon by our enemies.

    1. Re:Why is that ironic? by Sebastian+Jansson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Hmm so if you can't jam the system what do you do?
      Yes! You make a fake terrorist attack, send a mailbomb or something to the white house, with some luck they will take that as a terrorist attack and shut down the system.

    2. Re:Why is that ironic? by stupidfoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's quite different when a service provider stops people from using its service than it is when some third group stops people from using said service.

    3. Re:Why is that ironic? by cliffski · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A valid question . As far as I can see the only enemy the USa has is OBL and his gang, and there arent anywhere near as many of them as the media likes to imagine.
      The iraqi insurgents are fighting for the US to get the fck out of their country. In fact OBl was fighting to get the US out of saudi. His man beef is with the saudis, not the USA.
      As for saddam being an enemy... yeah right, he was gonna throw stones at the US? because he sure didnt have WMDs.
      All thsi talk about mysterious 'enemies' is SO similar to the 'red menace' or the 'alien invaders' crap of the sixties. It seems the US govt loves its citizens to stay scared.

      --
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    4. Re:Why is that ironic? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      uh...now who is eating what the media tells us. "he hates us because he hates our freedom" is one of the most retarded things I've ever heard in my life.

      how about..."he hates us because we backed him and trained him and his fellow rebels until he was no longer needed to fight the russkies. then we abandoned him and left him to fend for himself."

      we have a pretty long history of sticking our nose in complex regional issues, then bailing out after we've got what we needed. read a history book sometime.

    5. Re:Why is that ironic? by cob666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      IMHO this is a military system that we civillians have been lucky enough to use around the world, and always remember that.

      Don't you mean a military funded system that we CITIZENS have been given access to because we paid for it?

      --
      Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law - Aleister Crowley
    6. Re:Why is that ironic? by Long-EZ · · Score: 5, Insightful

      IMHO this is a military system that we civillians have been lucky enough to use around the world, and always remember that.

      Where do you think the military got the money for GPS? Hint: It's as inevitable as death. Yep, you guessed it. Taxes. And you can bet a private enterprise global satellite navigational system would have been twice as good for a tenth of the money. So I wouldn't count myself too lucky.

      I use a GPS when I fly and increasingly when I drive. But I don't bow down to the military industrial complex in gratitude. I paid for my share of the GPS system.

      Do you feel lucky that your ISP lets you use their internet?

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    7. Re:Why is that ironic? by Long-EZ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And with GWB back in the Whitehouse, I'm really glad I'm getting a sextant for Christmas.

      I'd love to do more sailing. I may have to. I can't imagine the US government abusing sailors to the same extent they have private pilots the last four years. We have numerous Temporary Flight Restrictions all over the country that have been in place since September 11, 2001. Not sure what's so temporary about them. Even worse, every time some government official travels, there is a 30 mile radius No-Fly zone that pops up with no warning. You can check before taking off, and one of these can pop up around you as you're flying, and it's still your fault.

      We are all losing our rights at an unbelievable rate, and being a small group with little political power, private pilots are at the tip of the sword. Of course, when there are no private pilots left, they'll eventually work their way down the list and eliminate the rights of sailors too.

      Be glad you're not getting all the government you're paying for.
      - Will Rogers

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    8. Re:Why is that ironic? by antoy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Such as the US blocking the EU's Galilei service?

      It's a mutual deal between the EU and the US. They can block each other for small areas, both sides agreed to this.

    9. Re:Why is that ironic? by rpdillon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You (like many others in this thread, apparently) don't know how GPS works. There are a few points (not necessarily yours) that I'd like to touch on.

      Our military will still be able to access the network, but civilian units will not. Others can't jam us, but we can remove their access. Even differential GPS won't help in that case.

      The system was originally designed with this ability in place, as well as an accuracy restriction on civilian units, which was removed in the mid '90s. That restriction can be put back into effect at any time, however, just as the removal of service can be activated.

      A few posts back, someone mentioned "black market" units that would offer military access during such a blackout. Those that exist do not work (to my knowledge): each military GPS is coded to the network, and each unit has a unique code to access the network. While I do not have sources at hand, I recall that attempts to spoof such codes were anticipated and protected (unlike, for example, MAC addresses).

      As for private industry making GPS "10 times better at a 10th of the cost", it would never happen. The cost of designing, building and putting up 24-30 satellites orbitting at 22,000 miles and then maintaining them, as well as integrating all the security features would prohibit profit anywhere in the near term, even if users were charged a subscription fee. That is why its a great government project: people love it, but a decent profitable business model really isn't available for it.

      And as for the "government taking away our rights" argument, well, GPS isn't your right, especially if the government wants to take it away to protect you from attack. Oh, and as far as tax money, it's not yours, it's the government's. That's why it's TAX money; they don't owe you access to every system they build with it, though you are entitled to know what they spend it on. Hopefully, in more cases than not, it will be projects that help the citizens of the country, directly or indirectly. Even if GPS were available to the military only, it would still be helping us indrectly as taxpayers. This in no way means that we are entitled to access to GPS, or that it is a"right" - it most certainly is not. Neither is driving a car or flying an airplane, incidently, as some would suggest.

  2. I do not think that means what you think it means. by njfuzzy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What is ironic about controlling when your technology can and cannot be used. It seems like a system for shutting it down when necessary would go hand in hand with a system for making sure other's can't shut it down arbitrarily.

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  3. Existing capability? by thatguywhoiam · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I thought they could shut down the GPS in sections at will already? Didn't they do this when they invaded Iraq (er, 2nd time)?

    When Clinton allowed for more accurate GPS signals to be used by civilians, it sure seemed like they just flipped a switch one day and it was suddenly more accurate for everyone...

    --
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  4. In related news... by handmedowns · · Score: 4, Funny

    Demand for compases and maps have gone up 80%.

    --
    The road between democracy and tyranny is paved with secrecy in the name of security.
  5. Why? by StevenHenderson · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They seemed to locate everything just fine on 9/11 w/o any GPS...

  6. Great Idea by Spad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In the event of a terroist attack, cause large scale panic by shutting down a primary means of navigation.

    What's next? Cutting off electricity so that the terrorists can't use it against people?

    1. Re:Great Idea by LarsWestergren · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mind you, don't ships have any kind of backup? I mean, what would happen if the ship's GPS receiver developed a fault?

      Then you have to do it the old way; sea charts, compasses, a trained navigator.

      However, at night the navigator has to rely on lighthouses, and the problem is that (in Sweden at least), there are fewer and fewer lighthouses running. They cost quite a lot in electricity and maintanance, and since even small sailboats can afford GPSes and even navigation computers these days the authorites are chosing to save money by turning them off.

      So if you are out at sea a stormy night and you GPS fails because it breaks, or because Dubya crapped his pants and turned off the satellites, you could be in trouble. :-)

      --

      Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die

    2. Re:Great Idea by westlake · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I doubt the manual method of navigation has been tested for a good few years now

      Sailors, meaning those who spend their working lives at sea, are by nature conservative. They haven't forgotten how to use a compass, a clock, a ship's log, a sextant. There are legacy systems like Loran still in service.
      The ones who will get in trouble are the small boaters who only know GPS.

  7. This is stupid by DarthAle · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Mostly terrorist attacks occur quickly and without warning, and by the time the authorities gets a clue about what is going on, the attack most likely is over - as per 9/11. Shutting down the GPS network in such an event would only make it infinitely harder for rescue workers and police to coordinate relief efforts.

  8. There's really nothing new here by mdpowell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The ability to selectively disable the network has long been a feature though usually it's spoken of in terms of disabling it over a (non-USA) battlefield. The govt. would be stupid to do this in all but the most serious emergency and then only for the shortest possible time.

    I wonder what the per-hour or per-day economic impact of disabling GPS over a heavily poplulated USA region?

    A decent number of aircraft/airports that use GPS approaches would have to go back to more primitive instrument landings (more delays); many trucking/shipping companies rely on GPS for tracking goods. Then there are surveyers and agriculture and such that may use GPS augmented with some local beacon for high accuracy.

    What other key economic uses of GPS are there?

  9. Its called WAAS by flyingace · · Score: 5, Informative

    WAAS was demilitarized some time ago. This allows for much greater accuracy.

    Read more about it
    http://www.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html

  10. GPS Airport Approaches by Ann+Elk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What about the growing number of airports that use GPS-only instrument approaches? Geezsh, why doesn't he just shut down the VOR and NDB systems while he's at it.

    Besides, a Determined Terrorist could build their own ground-based DGPS-like system for specific targets without too much difficulty.

  11. Re:Galileo? by Darkon · · Score: 5, Informative

    The US and EU reached and agreement over mutual jamming capabilities:

    These technical parameters will allow either side to effectively jam the other's signal in a small area, such as a battlefield, without shutting down the entire system.

  12. Re:Galileo? by 91degrees · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It makes no mention of "how" they plan to do this. The mechanism could easily be simply to contact the EU, and, if neccesary present evidence that there will be a terrorist attack.

    The EU and US may not get on with each other that well, but they're not going to be so churlish as to allow people to be killed by terrorists.

  13. Real impact? by thogard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Does the Whitehouse know that GPS is essential to timing many things such as the power grid?

    I'm guessing this is some off the wall PR stunt to make people feel better that they can turn of GPS in an instant but the real facts are you can't shut down most of the sats unless they are in range of one of the few control stations and even then it might be a one way trip for some of the older ones.

    Turning off GPS might just wipe out a great deal of mobile phones and other communications. It would be bad for aviation as well because one its turned off, there is no reason to ever turn it back on as far as pilots are concerned. And there is that small problem that the Europeans are building Galileo and the Russians still have GLONASS.

    After seeing what Airbus is doing to Boeing and all the other military messes, I'm wondering who the politicians are working for because I know its not for the tax payers.

  14. Act of war against the European Union/Russia? by markdowling · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Attempting to disable Galileo/GLONASS when the EU or Russia is not attacking might be considered a hostile act.

  15. Re:Incorrect: Understand the way it's shut off by Sinus0idal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What about all the other users? Ships and aircraft which may be relying on it? Public road users trying to find their way home? Its just asking to get more people pissed off with the US.. particularly since this system will block others systems like Galileo without permission..

  16. Re:Galileo? by AllUsernamesAreGone · · Score: 3, Informative

    That was the original intention, however the US threw a strop over the fact that they couldn't blackout chunks of galileo (probably thanks to US threats to destroy the satellites if they couldn't turn them off). The EU caved over the issue and agreed to "harmonise the technology of the networks" - essentially, Galileo will work in sync with GPS and the US blackout of GPS will work on Galileo

  17. Nothing, but.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Imagine some terrorist group is launching a dozen of home-made of cruise missile towards Washington. Bush has every reason to shut down the GPS. It makes sense to ask EU for a favour to shut down Galileo temporarily.

    The problem is the Bush Administration is just so arrogant. The Pentagon has plan to do whatever, regardless of what they say they would or wouldn't do. I don't have a problem with this. But, that does not mean it is rational to threat the supposely allied EU countries for an attack of Galileo... Let's turn the table around. Imagine what would be Bush's reaction if the French Government say that kind of crap first....

    I don't even need to mention other sovereignty countries... It is clear why Bush is hated by so many people around the world.

  18. Makes perfect sense... by CTachyon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    <rant delivery="sarcastic" offtopic="slightly">

    Yeah, this is perfectly logical. Everyone knows that only terrorists would be using GPS during a terrorist attack, and not, say, emergency workers, the FBI, etc. God forbid that a single terrorist be allowed to use the GPS network, regardless of the fact that he's probably already (a) planned for that contingency (esp. since the Bush administration has helpfully announced the fact that the GPS system might be killed at will) or (b) already done all the legwork with GPS while picking his targets and coordinating the attack (so that he can execute the attack without it).

    In fact, I also applaud the Bush administration for restricting our freedoms to eliminate the risk that any of the pesky terrorists might receive some. Freedom is a limited resource and must be hoarded and parceled out accordingly, and we can't afford to waste our freedoms (e.g. 1st amendment freedom of assembly, 5th and 6th amendment right to a fair trial) on even a single terrorist. I commend Bush for indefinitely detaining even suspected terrorists at our luxurious Guantanamo Bay facility (which is far nicer than they deserve, let me tell you), because we can't risk a terrorist experiencing our freedoms. God forbid, we might actually have to let one go due to lack of evidence. Terrorists eat babies! We can't let baby-eaters go free! WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!?

    </rant>

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    Range Voting: preference intensity matters
    1. Re:Makes perfect sense... by CTachyon · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Get a grip. Where in the 1st amendment does it says that we have the right to GPS?

      As I mentioned at the start, the rant wanders offtopic. I was referring to the people arrested ^W "detained" and held at Guantanamo Bay for associating with terrorists ^W^W^W "posessing vital intelligence (that magically isn't stale after 3 years)".

      No, we don't have a right to GPS signals, but it's yet another example of Bush's 9/11 madness. Should Bush restrict pens and paper next, since terrorists might use them to write letters to each other? Just because terrorists would be inconvenienced doesn't mean it's a worthwhile tradeoff. In particular, killing GPS in an emergency will make the emergency worse, because civilians and emergency services use GPS to coordinate rescue attempts. Killing GPS is doing the terrorists' work for them.

      Somehow I doubt that they poked their heads out of the window to see where NYC was. They probably just used the pretty screen with the blinking lights and maps in front of them.

      If you think aviators rely exclusively on GPS, you're nuts. There are other navigation systems in place as a fallback, and killing all those navigational systems along with GPS will result in additional dead civilians (because of mid-air collisions, planes running out of fuel and crashing looking for an airport, etc.) on top of whatever the terrorists do.

      --
      Range Voting: preference intensity matters
  19. "Terrorists" by Afty0r · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Terrorists tend to be very clever, sly and intelligent people. They work with limited resources, frequently in enemy territory against a much larger force.

    Terrorists will not rely on GPS.
    The military is increasing its' reliance on GPS.
    therefore
    Shutting down the GPS will have no negative effect on the terrorists, but will hamper the military (and probably civil emergency efforts too).

    Finally, if the terrorists do mount an attack on us that somehow utilises GPS, it is unlikely we will know about it until after it has happened.

  20. Key Word "PLANS" by Zapdos · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just in case you need to know. Plans usually include things such as:

    When - When would it be shut down
    Why - Why would it be shut down
    Where - Which areas would be shut down
    How - How do we shut it down, and how do we operate without it.

  21. To the lamers overreacting... by Ingolfke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a just a plan folks. It's like posting an article stating that the government has a plan to shoot down commercial airliners that have been hijacked and are heading for large population centers, and the responses here would be "What is the government going to randomly shoot down airplanes now? I hate the government. Don't they know that foreigners fly on those planes, that could be an act of war? Air travel is a major commercial enterprise, is anyone thinking about how this could criple the economy? Sometimes they transport organs for transplant on those planes, just think about the people who would die? I love those little jet trails in the sky, why does the government want to take them away from me? Has anyone thought about the children? The children!" Stop overreacting, RTFA, and realize IT IS JUST A PLAN. This is what government bureaucracies do... they create massive amounts of paper.

    For those of you who didn't RTFA, here are some key points from it.
    - President Bush has ordered plans
    - Any shutdown of the network inside the United States. Use GLONASS if you like.
    - Any government-ordered shutdown or jamming of the GPS satellites would be done in ways to limit disruptions to navigation and related systems outside the affected area, the White House said.
    - ...shutdown of the network inside the United States would come under only the most remarkable circumstances

    There have been some good question and points raised (like HOW will this work), but those are barely audible over the Bush-bashing trolls and the general knee-jerk hysteria.

    Long live the paranoid.

  22. Re:Galileo? by uradu · · Score: 3, Insightful

    > The EU and US may not get on with each other that well,
    > but they're not going to be so churlish as to allow
    > people to be killed by terrorists.

    That is the sensible and pragmatic way to view this, and the way real-world diplomacy usually works out. Except that the current administration wouldn't put it in such cooperative and non-threatening language, without the possibility to flex muscle. Usually it starts with sneers and "Old Europe" masked by coughs, only to later degenerate into "hey, old buddy" and "could you spare a few thou troops".

  23. Re:Incorrect: Understand the way it's shut off by BorgDrone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, you do, because that's way more important to the US than the impact of a terrorist attack. You need to have friends if you want a healthy economy, and a healthy economy is of much bigger importance on the average person's life than preventing terrorism.

    Unfortunately, people have a really skewed perception of risk.

    On 9/11 , about 2800 people (exact number is still unclear) suffered a terrible death in the terrorist attacks. Yes it was horrible. No, we don't want it to happen again.

    However, the current measures taken by the US government are going way too far, it's not worth reducing freedom for in any way whatsoever, the risk of being killed in a terrorist attack is extremely small. Yet, somehow, the perception of this risk is inflated enormously.

    To put things in perspective, last year there were 41,600 traffic deaths in the U.S. (15,700 alcohol related).
    It seems clear to me that unsafe driving and DUI is a MUCH bigger risk to the US people than a 9/11 style terrorist attack.

    The amount of money and effort spent on "the war on terrorism" is way out of proportion in relation to the risk involved. At the same time, I hear nothing about a "war on unsafe driving" or a "war on DUI", on the contrary, the government even seems to be promoting the use of SUV's which are proven to be more unsafe then 'regular' cars.

    The american people should wake up, kick the idiot out of the Big Chair(tm), and put someone there who has his/her priorities straight.

  24. NO! (Re:Its called WAAS) by Lesson+No.+25 · · Score: 5, Informative
    I thought they could shut down the GPS in sections at will already? Didn't they do this when they invaded Iraq (er, 2nd time)?

    When Clinton allowed for more accurate GPS signals to be used by civilians, it sure seemed like they just flipped a switch one day and it was suddenly more accurate for everyone...

    WAAS was demilitarized some time ago. This allows for much greater accuracy.

    I work in the Testing & Evaluation of WAAS. WAAS and Selective Availability are not the same (or opposites). WAAS was never "militarized".

    When Clinton ordered for the switch to be flipped (so to speak), what was done was the disabling of Selective Availability, which was a purposeful degradation of the civilian GPS signal (L1). The military had (and still has) a second (encrypted) signal that a military receiver must have a key to properly use (L2). Using that signal enhances their accuracy, whether or not Selective Availability is active.

    WAAS (Wide Area Augmentation System) is something else. WAAS uses Geostationary Satellites to enhance (augment) GPS accuracy & precision in the USA. Not all GPS receivers use WAAS. Accuracy of a WAAS receiver is increased in either case (that is, with or without Selective Availability) relative to a non-WAAS receiver, but there is a noticeable difference from SA.

    Not all GPS receivers use WAAS, but Selective Availability has been disabled, which affects all GPS receivers.

  25. Cutting off their nose to spite their face by Mechanik · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This seems stupid to me even when just looking at the military's own needs, let alone the needs of the police, aviation, etc.

    I remember watching a special on the Discovery Channel (or maybe it was History? doesn't matter) that did an interview with an Air Force guy whose job it was to scout around on the ground, call in airstrikes on a location, and paint the target with a laser so that the planes could take it out with laser guided munitions.

    He would take a GPS reading of his current location, then use a laser range finder, an electronic compass, and a bit of math to come up with a lat/long reading for the target, which was usually several kilometres away. This would get the planes in the right spot and once they were there the laser guidance would do the rest.

    Problem was, the US issue GPS they gave him was HUGE. We are talking the size of a ham radio here, weighing around five pounds or perhaps more. Nobody in that job uses the issued GPS. Instead they order a civilian GPS and use that instead because they are tiny and weigh as much as a ham sandwich and not as much a ham radio.

    I'm sure there are plenty of other military people out there doing the same thing. If they turn off civilian GPS altogether they might just be screwing their own troops.


    Mechanik

  26. Re:Incorrect: Understand the way it's shut off by wfberg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd imagine Emergency Services are quite chuffed with GPS. E911, for example.

    But hey, perhaps it's also a "good idea" to stop ambulances from going onto the streets in the aftermath of a terrorist attack. After all, the "terrrsts" might just hijack an ambulance and use it against us! Ph3ar!

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  27. Re:Incorrect: Understand the way it's shut off by colinrichardday · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And how is shutting down GPS going to prevent a suitcase nuke attack?

  28. Re:well by schtum · · Score: 3, Insightful

    that's what powerful countries do, what is the alternative?

    Humility?

  29. Re:Our enemies? by Hrvat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unfortunately there are some people who will hate you just for being American. It happens all over the world. During the 90's in ex-Yugoslavia, you didn't really go to Serbia from Croatia and vice-versa. There were people there who really hated you no matter who you were, as long as you came from the other country.

    Like it or not, the US government represents you to the world. When the US government exerts pressure on some other government to get their way (Hm, lets encourage EU not to help country X because said country signed a certain treaty) the people of that country will naturally resent America. Not the US Government, but the US as a whole, including the people in it.

    --
    TANSTAAFL
  30. Dude, welcome to the 20th century. by mcc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If empire were an American desire Europe would have went through being territories all the way to US states by now.

    State-based imperialism has been shown ineffective. It's unwieldy, it doesn't really offer any advantages, and it's risky; when you attempt to retain dominance in an area through military means, sometimes people fight back through military means, and it's not always possible to paint the people fighting back against an invading/occupying force as the aggressors. Plus, you can only maintain state-based imperialism if you continuously control the state that runs the empire, and in a democracy like America this runs the risk of temporary local power transfers leading to your empire being disassembled.

    The important thing now is economy-based imperialism. There's no need to rule the world when you can just own it. The wave that's been building since 1950, and the wave of the future, is for empire to be economic in nature, for military force to be used only when necessary to support that economic empire, and for the states-- which are increasingly irrelevant anyway-- to be ignored except when they stand in the way of that empire's interests.

    Of course, occasionally America may resort to traditional, invade-and-occupy methods of imperialism to maintain its economic empire and ensure its spheres of interest. But this is usually not necessary, and only under certain circumstances is it the appropriate tool to use. Who on earth would try to invade or occupy Europe, anyway? Twice now in the last 250 years Europe has faced a rogue superpower trying to conquer the continent through military means, and both times it repelled and squashed that superpower against staggering odds. Only a very poor businessman would accept those odds even if there were a good reason.

  31. Re:Incorrect: Understand the way it's shut off by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Remember that after WWII we stood astride the world with a war machine unmatched in history, totally unopposed by the shattered remains of the rest of the civilized world, in sole possession of the Ultimate Weapon. What did we do? Taxed ourselves to rebuild not only our wartorn allies, but also our defeated enemies.

    Yep, and the world noticed that and by everything I can tell greatly appreciated it. That generation of Americans has a lot to be proud of. However, it wasn't long before we started to burn through that good will. Maybe it's just me, but the burn rate seems to have gone up a lot in the last two years. However, American pride has not diminished in relation with the actions taken. I've always believed that pride is justified by actions, not vice-versa.

    The America of today is not the America of 1945. Using WWII as an example of our good intent only throws current events into sharper relief.

    We have no longterm designs on the Middle East.

    A telling moment for me was in the debates, when Kerry said it was important to demonstrate that we had no long-term designs on the Middle East. Bush made no comment. Probably because if he had, the obvious rebuttle would have mentioned the huge permament military bases we're building in Iraq.

    By the way, there is a narrow difference between outright imperialism and the pseudo-imperialism where you place a "soverign" but for all intents and purposes puppet government in power and tie the economy of the country to your own corporations while maintaining a massive military presence. The only people who are fooled by this difference are the ones doing it.

    In other words, if it is true that we (meaning the government) have no long term designs on the Middle East, we are a long way from proving it.

    --

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