Opera Browser Beta Adds Voice, More

An anonymous reader writes "According to an article at DesktopLinux.com, the first public beta of Opera 8 is available for free download. It adds voice input/output and a host of other niceties. Key new features include improved RSS handling, fit to window or paper width, a start-bar for easy access to the most commonly used functions, and automatic update checks. The beta release supports Windows only, but a general release is scheduled for early 2005. Opera and IBM have partnered on XHTML+Voice (X+V) technology for several years, co-announcing a Multimodal Browser and Toolkit early in 2003."

Comments

Voice Output

[andreMA]

So now we can hear the fat lady sing?

Re:Voice Output

[Anonymous Coward]

Who, Oprah?

And the countdown begins

[vcv]

T minus 3 posts until Firefox is mentioned. T minus 5 posts until Opera not being free is mentioned T minus 10 posts until someone calls Opera bloated. Anyone want in on a pool?

Re:And the countdown begins

[Lotharjade]

T minus 4 till someone points out Opera is better than Firefox. T minus 6 till the bonehead at T minus 5 is corrected and told Opera can be had for FREE, and T minus 11 till someone points out that Opera isn't bloated, it just actually has useful features.

Ive used Opera for years without paying a dime. You don't have to pay if you don't want to, you just have a small ad at the top (which I have set to play google relavent text adds on mine). As for bloated, thats a bunch or crap. For a few megs I have a complete browser/email/chat package with wonderful features like popup blocker (WHICH ITS HAD FOR YEARS!).

Re:And the countdown begins

[bhtooefr]

MODERNIZING it? WTH does that mean? OK, so it's not open source. And, it IS free, you just have to have ads. No, it's not Free. Still, it's damn good, and I've heard that 8.0B1 changes the license terms to allow one license to work on any computers you own - no matter the OS.

Re:And the countdown begins

[bhtooefr]

For Windows users, Konqueror needs either Cygwin+KDE or a Linux distro with KDE (can be added) to run. I said Firefox was 4.1MB, but I was wrong - it's 4.7. However, while Opera's download size is huge for the Java version, keep in mind - Firefox and Seamonkey don't come with Java either. Here's the sizes of the various browsers:

Opera 7.54u1 (Java/None): 16.7/3.6MB
Opera 8.00b1 (None/Voice): 3.5MB/6.0MB (note: voice is a download AFTER the beta is installed)
Firefox 1.0: 4.7MB
Mozilla Suite 1.7.5: 11.0MB

Functionality of the above:
Opera: Web, mail, news, RSS, notetaking, chat, (8.00b1) voice
Firefox: Web, RSS
Mozilla Suite: Web, mail, news, chat(?), web development

The new beta is awesome.

[beeswax]

I think everyone here that likes firefox should give the Opera beta a try. I've used it since yesterday and it's a top quality piece of software in my opinion.

Firefox might be better than IE, but Opera is much nicer, faster than firefox.

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[DigitumDei]

I hadn't even looked at Opera because of the slashdot crowd screaming about the "Oh So Annoying" ads. Then, due to the fact that I wanted to test my web site with opera, I downloaded the free version. You have a choice to display this ultra thin text ad at the top of the browser that really does not seem to get in the way of anything other than maybe a few buttons that could be there.

The browser itself is really nice, and the tiny advert does VERY LITTLE to detract from this. Why oh why is this such a huge issue?

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[ender81b]

Because it's not firefox and GOD FORBID you'd have to like pay money for software. Not to mention that nearly every single feature that makes firefox what it is (tabbed browsing, pop-up blocking, mouse gestures, lightweight interface) was pioneered by Opera first.

Sad but true. Not that there is anything wrong with either (I use firefox on linux boxes, opera on windows, and safari on mac) but most of the /. crowd has a mentality that we have to dismiss Opera even though most, if not all, of the revolutionary features of webrowsing were pioneered by opera first.

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[Twinbee]

Exactly, and you can even 'move' the advert so that it appears similar to the way it was in Opera 7.2 (i.e. at the top right). Simply select View > Toolbars > Main bar, and viola (see a PNG shot here). That screenshot is from 7.5, but I assume you can do the same with 8.

One of things I love about Opera is how configurable its interface is. For example, Explorer could learn a thing or two from the way Opera allows buttons to be easily dropped onto toolbars.

Plus the email client (M2) rules.

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no such thing as free lunch, economics 101. The fact that you didn't pay a single $ for the software you use doesn't mean it didn't cost money to develop. Someone has to pay for that, either the developers have another job, or they get paid to develop free software.

Some software cannot be developed with the open source business model, it doesn't work. I'm sure the Opera guys would love to release their software as OSS if they could make money another day. Other niche products won't be OSS any time soon, e.g. Softimage|XSI, Maya, etc. And no, Bender doesn't even come close to them. When will some people understand that not all software has to be free? I don't care what Stallman says, it's not true.

--
HawkinsOS, kicking Smorgrav in the ass since 2004.

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[Belisarivs]

Those "ads" (only in the free version) constitutes a single banner matched to fit in the otherwise vacant space in the right side of the toolbar at the top of the browser. An ad for UserFriendly.org isn't (at least I think UF still has ads with Opera) isn't worthy of your desktop, but white pixels are?

I paid for the full version not because the ads were annoying (I never noticed them), but because I wanted to support what I thought was a great browser. Opera ads are about the least intrusive ads I have ever seen.

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[typhoonius]

The internet is information, and information should be free IMHO. No browser is worth $39, especially a closed source one.

To be honest, I think a lot of the open-source faithful have gotten so caught up in the philosophy that they've forgotten the pragmatism. Open source isn't important, open formats are. When your file formats are open, your data is yours forever, you're not subject to vendor lock-in, and all that crap. Open-source software is simply a means to this end.

Both Mozilla and Opera support open standards. So what is the practical difference besides price? Is paying for software really that awful? There's obviously still a market for a pay-browser. The closed-source-phobia around here is silly.

Also, I think it's misleading to criticize the browser for costing $39 and then slam it for having ads (which are inobtrusive text ads by default) when there exists no version of the browser subject to both these criticisms.

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[hkmwbz]

"The internet is information, and information should be free IMHO. No browser is worth $39, especially a closed source one."

It's well woth 39 bucks, considering that Opera innovates, and the rest try to keep up with Opera. Do you think tabbed browsing, popup blocking, mouse gestures, etc. would have been around if no one came up with them? Most of the features Firefox brags about on its front page were either invented by Opera, or implemented in Opera ages before it was available in Firefox.

The same is true for Minimo. Did you read the CNET article about Minimo and all the "fantastic innovations"? Guess what, Opera invented all those things, but the Minimo spokesperson tried to make it sound like they were Mozilla firsts.

There's a pattern here. Opera comes up with all these new things. Without Opera, Firefox and other browsers would have been in the Browser stone age.

This is why a company which makes money is a good thing: They are forced to do research and development beyond what everyone else is doing, to come up with new stuff to stay ahead.

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[zerocool^]

To be honest, I think a lot of the open-source faithful have gotten so caught up in the philosophy that they've forgotten the pragmatism. Open source isn't important, open formats are.

I think rather that you may not understand how some of us feel about open source. It's not the pragmatism of the always availability of my data that makes me use open source. Not by a long shot. It's simply that the software is better.

And after a while, you start to think that so much closed source software has a better, free, open source counterpart. And this evolves into the belief that all code should be open. Many sets of eyes and many people collaberating can make software better.

The one trap of open source is the deisre to be too many things to too many people. There are a handfull of opensource projects out there that have pretty much peaked with a perfect or near-perfect product, and then gone back and started adding everything that anyone and everyone suggests. This leads to bloated software.

But, hey, Opera is already there, and it costs $39 and isn't free. Plus not enough people are using it to justify serious security audits, and since it's closed, who knows what's wrong with it. Firefox is open and has millions of users, so people are constantly looking at it's code and finding / fixing problems. IE at least has 86% of the internet's users using it, so the holes in it eventually come out by sheer dumb luck. But, I wonder how many holes go unpatched in Opera?

Also, aside from the philosophy of open-ness, there is my version of pragmatism. The time for paying for browsers has come and past. Oh, wait. That time was never. From gopher to lynx to mosaic to netscape to IE to mozilla to firefox, web browsers have always been free.

And the ad-supported version that you can get... does not have "text based, unobtrusive ads". Here's a screenshot from a fellow slashdotter. Here are the facts about the ads:

1.) not text based. That's an image up there.
Text based would be like google i-frame ads.
2.) the full size of that browser window is 800x535 pixles. The ad is 312x60 pixels. Thus -
full browser = 428000 pixles
ad in browser = 18720 pixles

Percentage of ad as part of browser window = 4.37%.
BUT WAIT, when you add in the portion of the browser window that is now unusable because of the ad's existance (the blank spot to the left)...
Unusable space: 488x29 = 14152 pixles.

So. Unusable space + ad space = 32872 pixles
Percentage of opera wasted with ad? 7.68%

I'm not going to give up 7.68% of my browser to an ad! And I'm damn sure not going to pay $40 for a browser.

There's your answer on Opera.

~Will

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[Taladar]

1) You can switch from graphical to text ads

2) I tried to switch from Opera to Firefox more than once but was back after a few days because Firefox clearly is inferior, the integration of the plugins is far worse than the corresponding features in Opera and the Browser is often unresponsive for several seconds.

3) I use Closed Source Software when it is clearly better and at the Moment Opera is although I use Open Source Software for anything else

4) I started with the Ad-Supported version, then I cracked it for a few months but since it is the Software I use most and I now earn money I thought it was worth to buy it so I did even though I did not get any advantages over the cracked version simply because I wanted to support the Development of my favorite Browser

5) Opera uses very little Screen Real Estate now as I use a minimal theme, deactivated the big button bar and the Panel Selector on the left. the only things I have left are the Tab Bar, the Address Bar, the Menu Bar and one bar with my favorite Bookmarks (and the Scroll Bar on the right). Combined with the Ratpoison Window Manager that does not use a Window Bar I can use over 90% of the Screen for the current Webpage.

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[kesuki]

(tabbed browsing, pop-up blocking, mouse gestures, lightweight interface) was pioneered by Opera first.
I will give you mouse gestures, but i'm sure someone can cite and earlier example of a program using mouse gestures... lightweight interfaces i'd give some much earlier text-only browser credit for trying to make as light wight an interface as possible, and as far as tabbed broswing goes, the first browser I ever used with tabbed browsing was way back in the true browser wars. When Netscape 1.1 was king of the hill, GNN Global Network Navigator had a bizarro cool interface, you could split the window into more 'panes' or have new 'tabs' (which it didn't call tabs, but had some other nifty name for them) But then AOL bought GNN and proceeded to make the company into nothing... All this from a browser that only used 4 MB of ram... (but then 4 MB of ram cost $125 back then...)
Every innovative brower function was pioneered during the era know as the browser wars. there were was many as 151 commercial web browsers available for windows 3.11 concurrently.. It's long since ancient history, Microsoft and Netscape partnered up to quash virtually every browser on the planet by making thier editors output junk HTML that would crash, or simple render a site unusable in competitors browsers...
Opera isn't a bad browser but innovative? hardly, it's just a bunch of 'good ideas' that other people had already had for browsers, but they had come into the game too early, and were crushed by the evil empire.

Re:The new beta is awesome.

[hkmwbz]

"It's simply that [open source] software is better."

Opera is smaller, faster, yet more functional than Firefox. In my opinion, Opera is better than Firefox. You may have a different opinion, but it is still just an opinion.

"And this evolves into the belief that all code should be open. Many sets of eyes and many people collaberating can make software better."

Opera has nearly 200 people working on it, the majority being programmers. Do you really think most people even bother to read the Firefox source code? Do you think they know how?

"Plus not enough people are using it to justify serious security audits, and since it's closed, who knows what's wrong with it."

In case you haven't noticed, security experts like Secunia are actively looking for flaws in Opera.

"Firefox is open and has millions of users, so people are constantly looking at it's code and finding / fixing problems."

Give me a break. Millions of users are looking at the code? Please.

Also, how do you think most security problems in Firefox have been found? That's right, not by looking at the code. People like Secunia, who also test Opera, find it by testing the compiled program.

"IE at least has 86% of the internet's users using it, so the holes in it eventually come out by sheer dumb luck. But, I wonder how many holes go unpatched in Opera?"

You are blinded by zealotry, it seems. The holes discovered in Firefox have not been found by inspecting the source code, but by security analysts who have run the compiled program through tests.

"The time for paying for browsers has come and past. Oh, wait. That time was never. From gopher to lynx to mosaic to netscape to IE to mozilla to firefox, web browsers have always been free."

You are wrong. Opera has been a commercial browser for ten years. There's even a browser for Mac, OmniWeb, which costs money. And Netscape wasn't free to begin with either.

Better learn your browser history before making such remarks.

"There's your answer on Opera."

And a typical misleading and grasping for straws one at that :|

Get Opera got to Slashdot.org by voice..

[Orm]

Start Opera, and start saying:
"double-u, double-u, double-u, dot, slashdot, no.. wait... backspace, backspace, slashDOT, nooo, backspace, backspace, SLASHDOT!! NOOO, ARGHHH"

More coverage

[kilogram]

Programmer.no
ZDNet
News.com.com.com.com
Original Opera press release
Changelog

Link says Opera 7.54u1

[Alien Venom]

Linked page says Opera 7.54u1.

Opera 8.00 Beta 1 - ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/win/800b1/en/std/ow3 2enen800b1.exe
Opera 8.00 Beta 1 w/o Java - ftp://ftp.opera.com/pub/opera/win/800b1/en/std/ow3 2enen800b1.exe

They should fix things instead of adding crap.

[elfarto]

Who cares about the voice thing ?? How many of the readers will care to actually speak to their browser, imagine a office full of people all talking to their browsers.. that's simply stupid.
I think that Opera people should care most about fixing things in it's browser instead of adding features that nobody (95%) will use.
Like M2, it simply sucks with IMAP, i was using it till i tried Thunderbird, did the switch about 5 minutes of starting it up for the first time.
The opera forums are full with complaints, why don't Opera listen to them, i'd do so before my userbase flies right into the open (and free) arms of Firefox.

Re:They should fix things instead of adding crap.

[oliverthered]

Bookmarks, down, down, down, up, down ,up ,down, up, down, yes,yes,yes.

Re:Major Version Upgrade Again

[kilogram]

I get a bit tired of paying again just to get a browser that crashes less.

Actually, this update is free for paying Opera 7 customers, and the final version will be too. See this article.

This is good for Firefox

[mralert]

Since Opera is a strong competitor to Firefox in the "power user"-niche, this new release will probably spur competition in the features-arena again. Now both browsers have good RSS-support, and so on. This will in turn further broaden the feature- gap between Firefox and Internet Explorer. The MSIE will have a hard time catching up. I believe 2005 will be an pretty interesting browser year :-)

Output?

[Cantide]

It adds voice input/output

I can't let you go to that URL, Dave.

I know you and Frank were planning to change to Firefox, and I'm afraid that's something I cannot allow to happen.

Et Cetera...

Talking Browsers

[pawnIII]

Well, this is a good idea for the blind. Though, I wonder if images will be rendered into soundwaves? For the rest of us, I much rather just type on a keyboard and read text on the screen, then having my computer screaming every word on a particular page.

I just wonder how well the voice recognition software has become, to actually have a voice-to-website a viable solution. Considering the last time I tried using voice recognition was back '96 on an old Acer I had. Basically, you had to program every command that you wanted the computer to recognize. On top of that, you basically had to scream into the mic for the computer to pick up the sound.

Gmail Support

[vikramrn]

From the Changelog

Support for XMLHttpRequest; Gmail Web mail is fully supported.

Now that should get the attention of slashdotters :)

Re:Gmail Support

[Lotharjade]

ahem... WA-HOO!!! Thats for the Gmail support.

not sure view on the other thing.

Re:Face it

[vcv]

Better formatting: Opera is the most innovative browser on the market, bar none. This is fact, whether people like it or not. Firefox would be not where it is today without Opera.

Why I like Opera better:
- Gestures are implemented better, more customizable, and can be used across the WHOLE browser app and not just the browser window.
- Tabbed browsing is better, more natural.
- Rewind and fast forward
- The way Opera handles cache on windows, by cache'ing the GDI objects instead of just the page data.
- The start bar
- Better and easier customization
- Smooth image zoom
- Simply faster
- Sessions and reloading all my pages after a crash.
- MSR/Fit to width/SSR
- The option to have the progress bar pop up at the bottom of the window and hide when it's done.
- Wand, it's simply better.
- Author/user modes
- All images/cached images/no images toggle
- Native windows skin. With OpusOS, it's great.
- Paste and Go
- That a page is actually a window and I can break it off from the main window if I want.
- Trashcan that keeps track of closed pages.
- Reload every
- Hotclick

And all the little details that aren't features. Firefox simply can't provide all this, even with extensions. And if there were an extension for each thing.. it would use a lot of resources, be slower, and they would not work as well together.

Voice Output?

[bfandreas]

Ummm. Do they plan to have voice output in that thing?
If so I think I'm terribly afraid. Just imagine what happens if your browser gets hijacked by less savoury sites.

HOT XXX PRETEEN SLUTS is bad enough as a pop-up.
And the cavernous echoes that come with the goatse guy. Shudder.

Opera: still leading the pack

[RAMMS EIN]

It amazes me that, after so many years, Opera continues to lead in browser innovation. Sure, Mozilla has copied tabbed browsing, popup blocking, mouse gestures, and a few more, but Opera has so much more. Small screen rendering, WML support, slideshows, keyboard shortcuts everywhere, ... And it's a lot faster and smaller, even with mail and IRC client built in.

And now they bring voice recognition. If they get that to work on Linux, I'll be happy to buy a couple more licenses from them.

Re:Opera: still leading the pack

[scottme]

I can't deny that Opera is innovative, and I thank them for that, but I have never been able to live with any of their browsers (and I've tried them often enough on a variety of platforms).

For me, the UI is *too* polished; I wish it would stop trying to be "different" and just fit in with the system theme I've chosen. Yes it's dull, but I like it that way.

On my 1400x1050 laptop panel the default font size is too small, even though I generally like small fonts. If I use the zoom feature, it zooms the images as well and I don't like the effect. Can't I just zoom the text? Firefox/Mozilla does that exactly right with Ctrl+/-.

Again on the laptop (IBM ThinkPad), the trackpoint scrolling (with middle button) doesn't work in Opera, and I simply hate that because I use it all the time in every other application. Does Opera use some fancy homegrown scrollbars? Why?

These may seem like small points, and perhaps if I persisted I could overcome them and grow to love it, but since Firefox does pretty much everything I need exactly how I like it, why on earth would I pay money for Opera?

New and improved Licence as well

[zxSpectrum]

What also needs to be mentioned is that the Licence has changed for paid customers. Quoting:

In fact, we've just given all Opera 7 customers a free upgrade, and added to this, we've changed our license terms so that there is only one license for all desktop platforms, which means that you can install Opera on any number of computers in your own home, regardless of the (desktop) operating system used. Yes, that's right. You can install the registered version of Opera as many times as you like with just a single license.

Actually this could be a good business decision

[jesterzog]

I think that Opera people should care most about fixing things in it's browser instead of adding features that nobody (95%) will use.

I think Opera Software should care about staying in business before it thinks about what most people will or won't use. In all fairness, Opera doesn't have 95% of the browser market to begin with. It never has, and it's extremely unlikely that it ever will.

Opera (the desktop browser, at least), has primarily been a browser of choice for niche groups of users. 5% is a niche market, and much less than 5% can easily be a niche market. If Opera happens to be the only browser that satisfactorily offers what those 5% or less happen to require, it'll be succesful enough to keep the business going.

Opera is now competing with Firefox, Konqueror (although not in Windows), and a host of others. Many of these new alternatives provide the satisfactory alternative to MSIE that Opera used to dominate in providing. Consequently, that market is diminishing, and it's probably not as viable any more because so many potential users can use something besides Opera. If Opera is to compete and survive, it's a sensible business decision to look for more points of difference to open new niche markets that aren't yet well catered for.

You might not personally like the way Opera's going, but chances are that you have plenty of alternative options anyway. Meanwhile, if you have a need for effective voice operation of a web browser as a particular group of people do, Opera might well be your first choice if they can pull it off.

Thanks to fatboy slim - I already know :)

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess what happened when I had this song playing loud and accidentally flipped the IBM Via Voice :)

Sadly I already moderated on this discussion - AC

Your feedback welcome!

[ijablokov]

Hi all,

I'm the IBM program director over this product, working in partnership w/ Opera. Some quick comments: The X+V spec unifies HTML & VoiceXML and is currently undergoing the W3C process for standardization. We wrote it together w/ Motorola & Opera and have made it open. We also have an Eclipse-based SDK available at http://www.ibm.com/pvc/multimodal and a prototype one at http://www.alphaworks.ibm.com/tech/mmtplus that allows you to visually build these multimodal apps.

Some of you may wonder why you should voice enable your Web content. First of all, one of my lead researchers is blind, and it's quite amazing to see how much he can accomplish today. Given that, in the future, I'm hoping a lot more content will be open to people with various disabilities.

Secondly, how useful is your cellphone for accessing the Web? It has a small screen & limited input. Now imagine just speaking into a multimodal portal: "weather forecast", "my portfolio", "eBay bids", "any high priority mail?", "am I free tomorrow at noon?", etc. The portal understands your input & fetches relevant info, which may also be tied into location based services. 50% of you will use multimodal services by 2010; this is intended as the replacement to WAP.

Warm regards!

Igor Jablokov

Re:Your feedback welcome!

[ijablokov]

Forgot to include feedback links. :)

Be sure to post your questions to Opera here:

http://my.opera.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=e4 7b 2a7f796603541134f9feaae4a8e1&forumid=95

or to IBM here:

nntp://news.software.ibm.com/ibm.software.speech .m ultimodal/

Thanks!
Igor Jablokov

Changed licence conditions

[ironfrost]

They changed the licence conditions too for version 8. Instead of having to buy Opera for Windows and Linux, you now buy one licence for "Opera for desktop", which allows you to install it on as many computers as you like within your own home.

Absolutely no reason to keep using IE

[hibri]

with opera and firefox available, there is simply no reason to use IE on Windows. Switched to Opera 3 years ago and haven't looked back since.

Let's be clear on a few things here

[Anonymous Coward]

Opera is many things. Before the bashing continues, however, I'd like to make a few things clear:

- it is NOT bloated; it's a 3.5 MB download
- it is NOT crashy
- it is NOT bad because of flashy ads because you can look at tiny, non-flashing google ads
- it is NOT unable to display pages propperly; it handles every webpage I'ver ever been to just fine
- it has a much nicer, more customizable UI than Firefox
- it is considerably faster than Firefox
- it has everything you'd ever want in a browser suite without needing any additional downloads or plugins
- you don't EVER have to use anything in it you don't want to, and even with email and chat turned on, it's still not bloated, and still has less of a footprint than Firefox
- if you turn off everything except web browsing, you'll never hear from it and Opera will have even less of a foot print
- it was well worth the $20 student price I paid for it. I rarely ever register software, and it was one of the few programs I did register without any regrets.

Opera is a magnificent piece of software. Who cares if it's not open source? Not every god damn thing in the world needs to be open. Who cares if it costs money? They're running a business, and selling a product, and a damn good one at that. You get what you pay for. Firefox is good too, but you also get what you pay for with Firefox.

Re:Let's be clear on a few things here

[The MESMERIC]

I can't possibly fathom anyone bashing Opera (unless they are a Linux user).

Purchasing Opera is one of the few things I did with pride (/me growls)

But purchasing the Linux version .. hmmmm (it felt more like a donation)

Still its handy having a Linux version (however un-pretty) .. saves me from using a Windows-emulator to test a webpage.

Re:Summary, Opera vs. Firefox

[vcv]

This is a little more fitting..

Opera - $$$
Firefox - Free beer, Free speech
Firefox: 1 Opera: 0

Opera - Fast
Firefox - Not as fast
Firefox: 2 Opera: 1

Opera - Very small footprint
Firefox - Tiny footprint as well
Firefox: 3 Opera: 2

Opera - Sometimes a long wait between major updates, but always major features added.
Firefox - Updated more often since they load all of the features off onto people writing extensions.
Firefox: 3 Opera: 2

Opera - Little setup required on first install
Firefox - Plugins and configuration needs to be done before you get all the functionality you want
Firefox: 3 Opera: 3

Opera - Blocks popups and with adblock css file, everything else you don't want to see
Firefox - Blocks popups and with adblock plugin, everything else you don't want to see
Firefox: 4 Opera: 4

Opera - Rendering problems on some pages
Firefox - Fewer rendering problems than Opera but more than IE (bad microsoft), and more support for IE's propietary non-standard code
Firefox: 4 Opera: 4

Opera - 3.5MB download size!
Firefox - 4.7MB before extensions
Firefox: 4 Opera: 5

Just another "Why I use Opera" comment

[adolfojp]

To achieve with Firefox the functionality that Opera offers out of the box I have to download a dozen plugins. When that is done, Firefox is very slugish and the features don't feel tightly integrated. (I am using a slow computer)

Every feature in Opera feels very natural and intuitive, it doesn't feel bolted on. It is a beautifully refined browser and works great both on Linux and Windows. Of course, a pluggable Opera would be heaven :-).

I still always recommend Firefox as an IE replacement, but for power users I will recommend Opera.

Cheers,
Adolfo

About the ads. The google ads take half the screen real estate that the graphical ones take and, to be honest, I have found them to be usefull more than once.

Shouldn't be feeding the trolls, but...

[hkmwbz]

"Except you forgot the 11Mb Java download that is mandatory when you install Opera. Firefox just works."

Wrong. Firefox uses the exact same Java environment as Opera does. Opera just offered a download with Java as a convenience. Without Java installed, neither Firefox nor Opera will be able to show Java applets.

Opera 8.0 doesn't offer Java anyway, since it's installed only when needed.

"You also forgot to award points to Firefox for having fewer rendering problems than Opera. Sneaky. Is this typical of advocates of closed source software?"

Your FUD and lies are typical of certain Firefox zealots, and that is why I am more and more hesitant to use Firefox. I simply can't stand many of the users that keep trying to shove Firefox down people's throats with misleading statements, FUD and lies.

Rendering problems - Firefox can't even render Slashdot correctly. How's that for "rendering problems"?

Want the Zaurus version

[sgtron]

Since my SL6000 came with Opera I wonder if they'll make a mobile version.

Opera is available elsewhere for free? Where?

[hkmwbz]

"it is hard to justify $40 (or ads) for something that is availible elsewhere for free."

Is Opera available elsewhere for free? Ah yes, if you use the ad version.

Oh, you meant completely free, without ads? Is there an Opera version which is free and without ads? News to me.

Oh, I get it! You think anything else can compare? Like Firefox? Sorry, Firefox doesn't cut it. It's a bigger download with far less functionality. To get more functionality, you have to wade through buggy and untested extensions, and it takes forever to even remotely resemble Opera functionality. I'll gladly play money for the convenience of a tiny download with smooth integration between everything, in a well tested package, rather than a basic browser which is tested well, and then a bunch of hobbyist extensions that break every time I upgrade.

And the Mozilla suite? Please. It's slow and bloated, and isn't even half as elegant as Opera. Sorry, it simply can't compare.

So the bottom line is that you can't get the equivalent of Opera for free. Opera is a unique product. Remember, Firefox is a stripped down browser, while Opera is a full Internet suite, with mail and all that. And Opera offers everything fine-tuned and smoothly integrated, and that is very convenient.

I don't want to build my own browser. I just want something that works. Opera works out of the box. Firefox requires hours of tinkering to even approach Opera's level of integration, functionality and polish.