China Lights Pure IPv6 Network

IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-26 23:26 · Score: 1, Insightful

content filtering?

Let us remember China filters websites, emails and SMS. Internet is all about freedom, don't forget it.

Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by GrAfFiT · 2004-12-26 23:38 · Score: 2, Informative

I guess you're referring to this document. Let's read it again. Why do you need to misrepresent the thoughts of the author ?
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by rokzy · 2004-12-26 23:58 · Score: 3, Insightful

internet is about freedom? what the fuck bullshit are you talking?

did "the owner of the internet" have a press release I missed on "what it's all about"?

as far as I can tell it's primarily about information and communication, and more recently secondary aims like commerce.

should you have the "freedom" the post information or conduct communications that would be illegal in another medium? no, of course not.

or am I taking your "think of the childen" whining too seriously? was I just supposed to think about freedom, wave a tear from my eye and salute the American flag?
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by GrAfFiT · 2004-12-26 23:59 · Score: 1

The I guess you can read this.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by Clay+Pigeon+-TPF-VS- · 2004-12-27 01:00 · Score: 1

Last time I checked "information and communication" both required freedom of the press and freedom of speech, unless you want some poor, shoddy substitutes for "information and communication".

--
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by verus+vorago · 2004-12-27 02:01 · Score: 2, Insightful

The vast majority of information and communication is from/between people who are not "the press".

"freedom of speech" doesn't have to be total for useful information and communication to take place.
This is a good thing because it doesn't exist anywhere that I am aware of.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by simonecaldana · 2004-12-27 02:10 · Score: 1

> Internet is all about freedom, don't forget it

Internet is about machine-to-machine communication.

The Internet culture developed between 1980 and 1998 is about freedom (of speech, of communication).

From 1998 the Internet is about business and control.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by JaffaKREE · 2004-12-27 03:21 · Score: 2, Funny

did "the owner of the internet" have a press release I missed on "what it's all about"?

Why, yes I did.
- - Al Gore
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by pauljlucas · 2004-12-27 05:09 · Score: 1

Last time I checked "information and communication" both required freedom of the press and freedom of speech ...
The Internet does just fine outside the US's borders. I believe the USA is the exception in that it has "freedom of press and speach" enshrined in its constitution. You don't have that in many other countries, "western" countries included. Hence, you don't need either for the Internet to work.

--
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by MOGua · 2004-12-27 06:48 · Score: 1

Not only does the United States ALSO filter content, they skew their news to "protect" its citizens, too. e.g. (Osama's video transcript right before our election) I don't get what you are trying to say...China is bad? If you don't like China, don't ever expand your business there.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by Clay+Pigeon+-TPF-VS- · 2004-12-27 07:16 · Score: 1

There is a difference between working and working well. A communication medium is cheapened if its subject matter is artificially cut. Now dont tou go and try to compare broadcast television and the internet as analogous. They are massively different. There is a pressing need for standards and practices in broadcast television as children are/were able to achieve unfettered access to it with just an arrow key until the advent of the V chip. The internet is not so simple to use, and has a limited child safety factor inherent in its design. Kids can stumble on television porn, but the odds of them actively entering a dns for porn was quite low.

Freedom of Speech is not just limited to the USA either. It has a strong tradition in most nations influenced by English common law. Just because some countries that you consider "western" dont officially protect speech, there would be repercussions in most western nations if such freedom was curtailed. A freedom does not have to be written in stone to exist in a nation.

--
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by pauljlucas · 2004-12-27 07:29 · Score: 1

There is a difference between working and working well. A communication medium is cheapened if its subject matter is artificially cut.
Please cite specific examples or studies that support your assertion. Two western countries that do not have freedom of speech are France and Germany and yet the Internet seems to be doing just fine in both countries.
There is a pressing need for standards and practices in broadcast television as children are/were able to achieve unfettered access to it with just an arrow key until the advent of the V chip.
This is completely false. A special chip isn't/wasn't ever needed to limit access. It certainly would have been possible to have invented the television such that channels above a certain number would have required a physical key to be inserted into the TV to enable the rotary dial to be switched to them. But when TV was invented, the US was too prudish anyway to have even considered any porn on TV, so the point is moot.

--
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by Clay+Pigeon+-TPF-VS- · 2004-12-27 08:10 · Score: 1

Arguments from quality do not require scientific studies to be valid. A's spirit is more noble than B's spirit is a proposition of value, not a prop of fact, which would need hard evidence to support it. However, from your demeanor, it would appear that you prefer to have the government hobble things in order to make them better. Go you!

And I find it interesting that your two countries are France and Germany. Germany does have a basic guarentee of freedom of speech in its national laws, and the European Convention on Human Rights guarentees freedom of speech in the EU, which France and Germany are both members. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech

--
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by pauljlucas · 2004-12-27 08:20 · Score: 1

However, from your demeanor, it would appear that you prefer to have the government hobble things in order to make them better.
Your assumption is invalid. My only assertion is that freedom of speech is not an absolute requirement for a computer communications network to function.
Germany does have a basic guarentee of freedom of speech in its national laws, and the European Convention on Human Rights guarentees freedom of speech in the EU, which France and Germany are both members.
Try publishing something pro-Nazi in either country and see how far you get. You can't even sell Nazi artifacts on eBay in either country. True freedom of speech includes speech you don't like.

--
If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by dvdeug · 2004-12-27 09:31 · Score: 1

Two western countries that do not have freedom of speech are France and Germany and yet the Internet seems to be doing just fine in both countries.

Freedom of speech is not black and white. No country provides absolute freedom of speech. France and Germany have fairly strong guarentees of freedom of speech enshrined in law, and pointing the primary exception to freedom of speech in those countries hardly changes that.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by tmika · 2004-12-27 16:18 · Score: 1

Please cite specific examples or studies that support your assertion. Two western countries that do not have freedom of speech are France and Germany and yet the Internet seems to be doing just fine in both countries.
Obviously, the Internet "functions" in countries that don't have freedom of speach.

I don't think anyone was trying to say that the IP6 network in China will cease to exist because of lack of civil liberties.

The rather obvious point that all of these semantic games ignore is, while its great that they have a shiney new fast backbone in a few select areas of China, it isn't going to be the Internet that most of us experience, and that is detrimental to the people of China, just like torturing political prisoners or gunning down unarmed student protestors -- which the Western world largely does nothing about because we use China for cheap labor and don't want to piss off the Chinese government.

Furthermore, the fact that China has implemented the world's most state of the art Internet backbone to all of, what 30-40 locations is probably intended more for propaganda value than for its usefulness. It doesn't sound like the super-backbone will extend to homes and cyber cafe's any time soon, does it? That's pretty typical -- its for political value, and certainly not for the overall populace.

The Internet they will/do have in China, will circumvent one of the fundamental strengths of the Internet, which is that you or I can look up (with some bounds, obviously, i.e., plans for nukes, kiddie-porn, etc.) almost anything on the Internet.

The cultural censorship in China is way out of line, and generally, not appreciated by the Chineese population. That is what the original poster was getting to, and its a valid point. Its also certainly playing word games with how previous posters used or ascribed freedom in their posts, but I guess that's easier than actually saying something relavant about freedom and communication.

Someone said freedom of speach is required for information and communication, which is obviously an overstatement, but freedom of speach is required for the sort of effective, open communication that encourages things like freedom, change, and democracy, which is why we have things like freedom of speach and public education in the first place.

So, back to the original point, the real Internet was most of the Western world have it would give a place of free communication and information exchange, including things like exploring or challenging cultural ideas, and it frankly sucks that China is making this technologically great backbone that will be censored and probably monitored in ways that would be completely unacceptable to anyone arguing in this thread if they suddenly had to deal with it. (Even after the Patriot Acts...)

In China's defense, sort of, I bet they are really tired of hearing the US describe itself as "the world's last super power"... :)
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by cthulhu11 · 2004-12-27 20:25 · Score: 1

| internet is about freedom? what the | fuck bullshit are you talking? Absolutely. Everyone knows that it's really about pr0n and truncated, low-bitrate mp3's from crappy bands.
Re:IPv6 is good. Speed is good. What about ... by Clay+Pigeon+-TPF-VS- · 2004-12-28 16:18 · Score: 1

Yeah, I forgot about the nazi issue.

--
Viral software licensing is not freedom, it is in fact GNU/Socialism.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by liangzai · 2004-12-26 23:34 · Score: 5, Informative

Oh, you can access porn and "subversive documents" all you want in China. I do it everyday.

Re:so then... by rokzy · 2004-12-26 23:35 · Score: 1

if by "they wanted" you mean *illegal* sites that have been banned, then I hope not.

I predict 49% of post will be "china is evil they censor", 49% will be "china is evil they don't censor spammers", 2% the usual stuff.

Slow post day... by hdd · 2004-12-26 23:37 · Score: 1

[i]"We were a learner and follower in the development of the first generation Internet, but we have caught up with world's leaders in the next-generation Internet, become a first mover, and[b] won respect and attention from the international community[/b]," said Wu Jianping, director of the expert committee of the China Education and Research Network"[/i] is he referring to us or some other beaucrats?

--
This Sig is removed due to factual inaccuracy

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by mOoZik · 2004-12-26 23:39 · Score: 3, Interesting

Heresy! I shall report you to the Department of Moral Standardization, the Bureau of Political Homogenization, and the Office of Internet Regulation!

But seriously, do you mean through proxies? Don't you worry that you may be caught / ratted upon?

--
A blog like any other.

Cool... by b374 · 2004-12-26 23:39 · Score: 4, Funny

... now they can assign an IP for each one of them... next step: switch ID cards to IP cards ;)

Re:Cool... by oliverthered · 2004-12-27 01:53 · Score: 1

That's what they call giving them the finger.

--
thank God the internet isn't a human right.

Re:What's the point? by thryllkill · 2004-12-26 23:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

The point is outlined in this line of the slashdot plug, "'CERNET2 is the biggest next-generation Internet network in operation in the world..."

That alone makes it newsworthy. But of course, you're right. We should not discuss news items from countries whose values systems are not reflections of our own. I hate all that pesky "world news" stuff anyways. It might broaden my horizons or something, and we wouldn't want that.

--

Note to self: No more arguing with the faithful.

Will the asian networks become isolated? by riflemann · 2004-12-26 23:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

With all of the advances going on in Asia with regards to IPv6, is this going to result in a large split in the internet as more sites appear on possibly ipv6-only servers?

Most of Europe and the US is seriously falling behind with IPv6, and there's still very little incentive to improve this - chicken and egg indeed. My employer is a large telecom with 1 million ADSL subscribers, but has no concrete plans to roll out IPv6 still, as they see no pressing business need for it. But I fear this will isolate us from the huge economy in asia.

There will soon be a time where there will be a lot if great content on servers that are only IPv6 capable, and these may slowly develop into separate 'internets'. What can be done for the rest of the world (ie, Europe and the US) to catch up on this? We may end up being left behind as asia powers ahead with technology.

But then again, Asia is where most of the newer tech goodies come from, so hopefully we will start seeing more everyday appliances supporting IPv6 natively, which could be the boost we need for full v6 support in the infrastructure.

--
Sparks:Gadget:Beer Maker

Re:Will the asian networks become isolated? by eric76 · 2004-12-26 23:51 · Score: 5, Interesting

A few months ago, I asked a representative from Southwestern Bell when they would be ready to switch to IPv6. They indicated that they weren't even pursuing the issue.

I look forward to IPv6 just because it will kill the random port scanning by all the Windoze worms.

If we had already moved to IPv6, Code Red might still be looking for the second computer to infect.
Re:Will the asian networks become isolated? by jbb999 · 2004-12-27 00:46 · Score: 5, Insightful

Oops forgot to login for my comment. You could always vote with your credit card and change to an ISP which does support ipv6. They do exist. The ISP I use supports ipv6 (it's in the UK though so no use to most people here I suppose). The point is that ISPs supporting ipv6 do exist and is a unique selling point for those ISPs. It's of limited use at the moment but I suspect soon enough it will be become more use and those few isps and their customers who do support it now will have a great headstart,
Re:Will the asian networks become isolated? by El+Torico · 2004-12-27 01:41 · Score: 1

Actually, I'd word it differently, "Will the American and European networks become obsolete?"

--
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is usually crucified.
Re:Will the asian networks become isolated? by singpolyma · 2004-12-27 04:01 · Score: 1

>I look forward to IPv6 just because it will kill the random port scanning by all the Windoze worms. It will? Just how will it do that? It'll just make it less likely that they'll hit you, that's all, they cann still port scan at random will.

--
- Singpolyma
Re:Will the asian networks become isolated? by bedessen · 2004-12-27 04:04 · Score: 2, Interesting

Well, there are already several 6-to-4 and 4-to-6 gateway sites. This one is one example. If there was a site that was only accessable through IPv6 you could use a service like that to access it over any IPv4 host.

Also, if you have an IPv6-capable host you can use a tunnel broker (such as Hurricane Electric's free service) to achieve connectivity to IPv6 sites over IPv4.

So you really don't need an IPv6-capable ISP to access IPv6 hosts, although it's cleaner that way of course.
Re:Will the asian networks become isolated? by upsidedown_duck · 2004-12-27 19:27 · Score: 1

I look forward to IPv6 just because it will kill the random port scanning by all the Windoze worms.

I like IPv4 for the relative anonymity afforded by DHCP and NAT. All the kludgy hacks that made IPv4 scale actually made it better for life on the WWW.

--
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
Re:Will the asian networks become isolated? by tgrigsby · 2004-12-28 08:52 · Score: 1

Sure it can but when there are 2^96 times more addresses then currently exist today its going to take 2^96 times more time to find an address. If you could check 1 address every milisecond and there were 2^32 addresses (the entire IPv4 space) then you would expect it to take about 2.5*10^19 years to find a valid address. For reference thats about 1,800,000,000 times the age of the universe.

Sorry, no. Statistically, that assumes that no search algorithm is used, and that all addresses are randomly scattered rather than assigned in blocks. I'd bet that, on a really bad day, I could whip up something in about 10 minutes that would cut that search down to seconds.

You do have a point that it may take a bit longer to start from zero and locate the first valid address, but the worm could be written to target certain known blocks of addresses, in which case the enormity of the overall addressing capacity becomes moot.

--
*** *** You're just jealous 'cause the voices talk to me... ***

Re:What's the point? by GrAfFiT · 2004-12-26 23:44 · Score: 1

And what's the point with such subjectivity, hate and stupidity ?
Instead of praising these thugs we should be clamoring for an embargo and boycotting US businesses which employ Chinese scum. Maybe you would also be clamoring for a complete airtight isolation from the rest of the world ? We would be freed of your insanities.
Ho well, I just fed the troll I know.

Google, wake up! by zcougar · 2004-12-26 23:44 · Score: 2, Interesting

Can't wait when Google will be available from my IPv6-only network.. ;-(

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2004-12-26 23:47 · Score: 2, Insightful

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by liangzai · 2004-12-26 23:48 · Score: 5, Informative

No proxies. It is not illegal to surf porn or stuff about Falun gong in China. What is illegal is setting up commercial porn sites within China (or dealing with commercial porn in general - your home made porn is legal). It is also illegal to challenge the ruling party, for instance by setting up Falun gong web sites within China. Everything else is legal, and if it isn't, nobody gives a shit anyway (you will find porn behind the desk in any video rental shop in China).

75% of the kids in China learn about sex through web porn. This is in concordance with the rest of the world. Go figure.

The Chinese authorities are very ambivalent about porn. That is why they do some obligatory censoring and let the majority sip through.

Re:Get a clue by GrAfFiT · 2004-12-26 23:51 · Score: 1

Maybe we can find something more interesting to post, though, such as accounts of torture in Tibet, which might provide a more accurate picture of what China is all about.
That is as exact as saying that the United States of America would be accurately represented by Guantanamo, Abu Graib, et al.

Re:so then... by Fjornir · 2004-12-26 23:51 · Score: 1

if by "[sites] they wanted [banned]" you mean *illegal* sites that have been banned I hope not.

Jesus, dude. That is seriously fucked up. I can only assume you live in a jurisdiction where dissident speech is protected, at least to some extent, and as such have no clue how privileged you are. Otherwise I daresay you would not be speaking out in favor of China blocking such content.

I predict 49% of [the] post[s] will be "china is evil they censor"

Well, perhaps that is because this is an important issue that the average reader feels needs to be discussed? But hey, thanks for throwing up a"seriously uninformed pro-censorship argument.

--
I want a new world. I think this one is broken.

That is a set back by bjoeg · 2004-12-26 23:51 · Score: 1, Insightful

Well, I'm still learning on IPv4 but following previous /. story then IPv6 is a set back for China since they already adapted IPv9 to their network.

Shortage of IP Address by mahesh_gharat · 2004-12-26 23:52 · Score: 1

Though they have mentioned the huge bandwidth numbers, the main reason they have stated for IPv6 conversion is the shortage of IP Addresses.

When IPv4 was rolled out, we thought those IP Addresses will be enough for our lifetime. Now lets see for long these IPv6 Addresses last.

I hope it does not turn out to be Bill Gates famous joke about 640KB will be enough for everybody.

Re:Shortage of IP Address by rokzy · 2004-12-27 00:22 · Score: 1

>When IPv4 was rolled out, we thought those IP Addresses will be enough for our lifetime. Now lets see for long these IPv6 Addresses last.

yes but isn't there some statistic that says for IPv6 there's [some obscene number] of addresses per square metre of the Earth's surface, suggesting this really ought to be enough?
Re:Shortage of IP Address by mahesh_gharat · 2004-12-27 00:25 · Score: 1

I said, it was a "joke", you insensitive clod!
Re:Shortage of IP Address by kyrre · 2004-12-27 00:33 · Score: 5, Informative

From wikipedia:

". IPv6 is intended to replace the previous standard, IPv4, which only supports up to about 4 billion (4 × 109) addresses, whereas IPv6 supports up to about 3.4 × 1038 (3.4 dodecillion) addresses. This is the equivalent of 4.3 × 1020 addresses per inch (6.7 × 1017 addresses/mm) of the Earth's surface."

It should hold for a little while.

It's enough addresses for many trillions of addresses to be assigned to every human being on the planet.

The earth is about 4.5 billion years old.

If we had been assigning IPv6 addresses at a rate of 1 billion per second since the earth was formed, we would have by now used up less than one trillionth of the address space.

From tcpipguide
Re:Shortage of IP Address by NoOneInParticular · 2004-12-27 00:49 · Score: 2, Informative

Given the IPv6 address space of 2^128 different addresses, this equates to roughly 10^38 different addresses. The IPv4 range is restricted to 4 billion, so of order 10^9 addresses, so nearly enough to give every person on earth a single IP address. This turns out to be too little, so let's just assign every person on earth 4 billion addresses (so every person on earth gets an entire IPv4 range to play with), and let's say we cater for of the order 10^10, 10^11 (10-100 billion) people. This figure easily includes companies. This scheme will need 10^20 different IP addresses. So, we then have managed to use about 67 of the available 128 bits, or in other words a fraction of 10^-18 (2^-61) of the entire space of addresses. That's not really a lot yet. I'm pretty sure that we'll need at least a decade to figure out how we can use 4 billion addresses per person/company.
Ok, let's do better, let's assign each cell in these 10^10 people with a single IP address. According to some source, the human body consists of 10^14 cells. Assigning one address to each cell for each person thus equates to the use of 10^24 addresses. Then, we've managed to fill up 10^-14 of the available space. Not even noticable, while we now can address any cell in anyones brain with ease.
You can juggle the numbers in various ways (square foot of earth as another poster said), but what remains is that IPv6 address space is mindboggingly big, and save for assigning every atom on earth a unique IP-address (we would need about 170 bits for that), it should last quite a while before we find ways of wasting enough of the address space that it starts to matter. I'm pretty sure that we'll come up with ingenious ways to do this, but so far my own efforts in this respect have made puny dents in the number. Try to figure out some scheme that (a) makes sense and (b) requires so many IP-addresses that we might conceivably run out in a century or so. Try it, it's fun!
Re:Shortage of IP Address by m50d · 2004-12-27 01:02 · Score: 1

We will outgrow them though. What happens when we move beyond the earth? Or when someone invents devices that need lots and lots of addresses (they will happen if the addresses are available). Suggesting a finite number, any finite number, of addresses will be sufficient is silly.

--
I am trolling
Re:Shortage of IP Address by RealBorg · 2004-12-27 01:19 · Score: 2, Funny

IPv4 was intended and assigned for networking big supercomputers, now every single PC got an IP address and every cellphone is going to need one. IPv6 is intended to solve this problem but from all the discussion going on it seems that they have not yet considered the future need of space colonies.
Re:Shortage of IP Address by Stween · 2004-12-27 01:42 · Score: 1

Space colonies is easy: They'll simply break the flat namespace again by introducing Intergalactic NATs.
Re:Shortage of IP Address by NoOneInParticular · 2004-12-27 01:45 · Score: 1

I guess we'll cross that bridge when we get there. For space colonies we've got this little bit of extra latency to contend with anyway, so I doubt IP is going to cut it. My guess is that with a 10-20 minute round trip time, ACK packets simply won't get there in time.
Re:Shortage of IP Address by kabocox · 2004-12-27 02:31 · Score: 1

If we had been assigning IPv6 addresses at a rate of 1 billion per second since the earth was formed, we would have by now used up less than one trillionth of the address space.

Yes, but what about those grandfather policies that grants 1/2 the IP range to education usage and 1/4 to be assigned among 20 multinatial companies?

Those are the "problems" with IP4. Most of the global population isn't in the US, but most of the IP4 address ranges are. I can easily see most of the IP6 address ranges assigned to entities and possessions and not people.
Re:Shortage of IP Address by schouwl · 2004-12-27 02:41 · Score: 1

That is great. I might move to China in the future... ;) Lars
Re:Shortage of IP Address by schouwl · 2004-12-27 02:43 · Score: 1

I also had a 1 gigabit connection into my former apartment house here in Tokyo.
This was spread out on the households to 70 mbps / sec downstram connetions.
Lars
Re:Shortage of IP Address by AviLazar · 2004-12-27 03:30 · Score: 1

So what your saying is that my Favorites list is going to grow?

--

I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Re:Shortage of IP Address by thomasj · 2004-12-27 03:44 · Score: 2, Interesting
I will try to explain how we are going to "waste" the IPv6 address space:
- The shortage of GUAs (Global Unicast Addresses) is only half of the problem. The other part is route fragmentation. The defaultless routers (Those routers that route your packets safely through the backbone mesh) have a routing table of about 60.000 routing entries. It is a bit like fragmentation of a 96% full harddisk. The shortage is not only limiting you on placing new files, but it is also causing the file system to be inefficient.
- Let us first make clear, that there today is only a plan for about 15% of the address space, so before anybody starts rabbling, 85% is not only not in use, by is not even assigned a purpose.
- The IPv6 addresses has, like IPv4, a net part and a host part. Where this is variable in CIDR IPv4, it fixed in IPv6 to 64 bits. Every produced and future ethernet card will fit into one big flat switched net. Besides the full 48-bit MAC address, there is 16 bits for the EUI-64 extention which will be applied when new generations of network links are put in production.
- The largest part of the IPv6 address space is used for AGUA (Aggregatable Global Unicast Addresses); it is the 12.5% of the planned address usage. It is called so, because the allocation is done like CIDR addresses, based on where the main connection is routed to. There is reserved 13 bits (8192 combinations) for TLAs (Top Level Aggregators) which is large backbone providers like UUnet, PSInet and others of this size and extension. Each TLA slot will provide 24 bits (16 mill. combinations) for handing out to NLAs (Next Level Aggregators) in how many levels the business is shared (large ISP selling to small ISP). The customer will get 16 bits (65536 combinations) as a SLA (Site Level Aggregator) to make subnets with (You will get more subnets than you ever could dream of getting IPv4 individual address today). On top of this there is 8 bits reserved for future needs between the TLA bits and the NLA bits, but since we don't know where the shortage may be, decissions can be applied later.
- There is also reserved an address range for private address space. LLAs (Link Local Addresses) are auto configured addresses given to each interface as it is activated. There is also SLA (Site Local Addresses) which more ressembles the private address ranges (10.0.0.0, 172.16.0.0, 192.168.0.0) and is assigned by a local adminitrator's discretion. This about a half percent of the address range, but in practice is not possible use more than a fraction of it, for other reasons.
- Multicast addresses is also assigned a range of about a half percent, and also is for practical reasons only useable in a fraction of the space.
- Adding compatibility addresses for IPv4, IPX and OSInet this amounts to 15%.
When you then take into account that there is work being done on dynamic assignment of address ranges by need and anti-fragtional measures. The endresult is hopefully that we will never need to give IP addresses any more thoughts than we today gives the actual routing of packets.
--
:-) = I am happy
:^) = I am happy with my big nose
C:\> = I am happy with my OS
Re:Shortage of IP Address by eric76 · 2004-12-27 05:47 · Score: 1

Think about the problem for deep space colonies, say ten or more light years away.

Even just for a simple ping, the IP address could easily change between successive pings.

One IPv6 address assignment scheme I've seen mentioned used the MAC address as the lower 48 bits of the address.

If that were used, you wouldn't be able to change your network card while pinging www.slashdot.org.
Re:Shortage of IP Address by jericho4.0 · 2004-12-27 07:16 · Score: 1

I feel comfortable with saying that humans will no longer be human when we run out of IPv6 addresses. Other folk have posted the numbers. They are very big numbers.
That said, unwise allocation of those addresses could change that, like the fact that MIT has more IPv4 addresses than Japan.....

--
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
Re:Shortage of IP Address by dvdeug · 2004-12-27 09:44 · Score: 1

What happens when we move beyond the earth?

The number of people who could live in Earth orbit (including the moon) in the near future is rather limited; I'd worry more about extra growth on Earth. The whole system needs reworking to handle sites on Mars and elsewhere, which have several minute long latencies; quite likely there will be seperate address systems on each side and a limited bridge, rather than a complete redesign of Internet systems. Or maybe there will be a complete redesign of systems, and IPv6 will be replaced in the process, but not due to a lack of addresses.

You really don't need that many bits to address every atom in the universe. If humans start to need that many address, then something's gone wrong in the allocation or stupid in the usage. If a devices plans to use lots and lots of address, you spray the developers with the water bottle or hit them with the rolled up newspaper; they'll find a better design then.
Re:Shortage of IP Address by kinema · 2004-12-27 12:34 · Score: 1

Why is IPv6's 128 bit address space the only feature that ever gets talked about on Slashdot? I've always thought that v6 had two killer features neither of which are the 3.4028*10^38 addresses. I'm talking about native support for encryption (IPSEC) and multicast. In my opinion these two features especially multicast have the potential to radically change the way we use the Internet.

Only talking about IPv6's address space is like saying that the only improvement in AMD's Opteron is the 64 bit core. What about the on die memory controller and the NUMA style architecture?
Re:Shortage of IP Address by AbRASiON · 2004-12-28 15:09 · Score: 1

I couldn't agree with this post more.
While I'm no where NEAR even cluey on IPv6 from what I've heard about multicast it sounds like a godsend and it's also _JUST_PLAIN_LOGICAL_

very cool stuff, I really look forward to it

Hooray For China! by blingbing · 2004-12-26 23:54 · Score: 1

This will bring a sense of urgency to US and the rest world to roll out the next generation internet, and every human and every kitchen shall get its own IP address.

Re:Hooray For China! by singpolyma · 2004-12-27 04:03 · Score: 1

Only progress by another nation can lead to progress in the US, and even then the progress is only used to implement wasteful techniques... we're doomed!

--
- Singpolyma

Re:What's the point? by 2Bits · 2004-12-26 23:57 · Score: 4, Insightful

Ok, you can live in your closed world if that's what you want. And oh, don't buy anything made in China, including most garments you can find in the US, computers, cell phones, electronics, shoes, ... Yeah, there are other countries which make them too, but as far I know, their political systems are not the same as the american one either....

Well, I don't like to respond to AC, but I'm just tired of this attitude here. Sure, China has a ton of problems (I'm Chinese and I live in China, so I should know), but that's not an excuse that we can't all participate in building a better world. The chinese leaders now are very pragmatic, they still have their little problems, but that's getting better everyday. Do we need a bloody revo to change all this overnight? I'll take the current model of gradual change any day.

What I'm saying is, if you don't care about other countries, fine, just buy everything made in USA. But just get over it, people are moving with their pace.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by mOoZik · 2004-12-26 23:59 · Score: 1

I think it's only a matter of time until those remaining "freedoms" are taken away. I'm not saying it's good or bad, as I have been conditioned in the U.S. for the past decade, but it's only a logical extension of current trends in censorship. I'm not only referring to porn, but also to practices like Falun Gong, which I believe is forbidden to even practice in public.

--
A blog like any other.

Connecting to IPv6 from behind home router? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 00:02 · Score: 1, Interesting

Nice, yet another backbone that supports IPv6.

The only question is how to connect to an IPv6 network from behind a NAT based router. Connecting straight to the internet without the router I am able to establish a 6to4 tunnel no problem, but with the router in the way it is not possible. I am using a Linksys Gateway/Router.

Re:Connecting to IPv6 from behind home router? by Koutarou · 2004-12-27 00:30 · Score: 1

IPv6-capable consumer routers are available, from Yamaha and Allied Telesys here. They must be available elsewhere.

There are a few preliminary projects to offer v6-based consumer access, but here in Japan the industry has seen the lack of need for v6. My boss asked me today if I had any plans for v6 deployment. I told him to ask me again in another 3-4 years.
Re:Connecting to IPv6 from behind home router? by pioppo · 2004-12-27 01:39 · Score: 1

when you have IPv6 you need no NAT, so basically you can switch your current router to be a dumb L2 bridge and run straight IPv6 over PPPoE or over PPPoA.
Re:Connecting to IPv6 from behind home router? by MadAhab · 2004-12-29 16:32 · Score: 1

For now - turn an old crappy computer into a FreeBSD-based router. Later - buy your router/firewall meant for the Asian market, where IPv6 will have more support. Eventually, you will be able to buy the equivalent from the corpse of a company like Linksys, which at that point will be a backwater division of an Asian company, or else buy something from a "major American corporation" that will spy on you, incur monthly charges, and be riddled with viruses (though you'll still be able to gin something up with an old computer and FreeBSD or a Linux distribution fine-tuned for the task, with ease of upgrade an open question).

--
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by Troed · 2004-12-27 00:07 · Score: 1

Reading your (Swedish) website I'm a bit confused. Are you in China or not? It seems you aren't and that the information you're posting is second hand. Correct?

--
it's in my head

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2004-12-27 00:07 · Score: 1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by liangzai · 2004-12-27 00:11 · Score: 1

Oh, don't get me wrong. China is a dictatorship with less freedom than in the West (there's of course no total freedom anywhere). So, it is illegal to challenge, in any way, this dictatorship, on the internet and elsewhere.

But the notion that you can't surf porn or illegal stuff in China, or even news sites and informative web pages, is just a myth. I can't get to BBC from my DSL connection in Shanghai, but then again, I never used BBC in the past, so... besides from that, I see no difference from surfing in my home country Sweden (a Western country, where the corporate tele oligarchy made the underground site flashback.se disappear for years).

China can try as hard as they want to tighten the control, but for obvious reasons it won't work (with less than the entire Internet becoming useless).

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by curious.corn · 2004-12-27 00:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

Ok fine, as long as you don't become a problem for the system you're (more or less) left alone... it's called jus murmurandi. Any non liberal political system is very lax in applying such repression so not to alienate the majority of the subdued masses; which are pretty condescending as long as their primary needs are satisfied. But don't worry, the moment you become a threat, you're quite certain there's some obscure, anal retentive prohibition, you'll get fucked over with. It's like having a dog on the leash, as long as it's not pulling you have no reason to strangle the poor sap (unless you're a loony bastard, like Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, etc...)

--
Mi domando chi Ã il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan

Re:so then... by krymsin01 · 2004-12-27 00:18 · Score: 1

When it comes to censorship, a government has to walk weigh the pros and cons of free speech vs protecting it's interests. In a democracy, protection of citizens and freedom of speech are both in the best interest of the gov't (well, theoreticaly, at least.) In other situations, such as China, perpetuation of the gov't is more important, obviously, than protecting dissident speech. The gov't that censors as a measure to protect its self rather than the citizens will do so under the guise of protecting said citizens from harmful information. The two situations seem very similar when glanced at, but upon furthur inspection it's fairly simple to see whos interests are being looked after. However, there is one caveat. The question of morality is decided based upon your ideology. My two cents, at least.

--
stuff

75% eh? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 00:23 · Score: 1, Insightful

Liar. There's less than 100 million internet users in China out of a population of over one billion. Literacy is around 90%; people in the countryside where most of the people live probably have never even heard of the internet. 75%? Take your propaganda elsewhere...

Re:75% eh? by liangzai · 2004-12-27 00:33 · Score: 5, Interesting

As far as I know, porn is delivered also outside the internet, for instance in form of magazines. And no, you don't have to be literate to read those magazines... in fact, pregnant women are standing all over the country side selling those lewd magazines and video tapes. Pregnant women, because they can by law not be detained for this minor crime.

Regarding netizens and their porn usage:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2004-05/10/conte nt_1461373.htm
Re:75% eh? by Dr.+Cody · 2004-12-27 14:43 · Score: 1

Pregnant women above the law? Do you have anymore details about this? Is it a law that includes all petty crime or is this just a matter of practice?

For the record, I spent a good portion of my month in Shanghai in the markets looking for CD's and DVD's and didn't see any such booth operators.
Re:75% eh? by liangzai · 2004-12-27 15:23 · Score: 1

This is China's constitution. It forbids detention of pregnant women or breastfeeding moms. It also forbids executing pregnant women. So, I guess pregnant women are above the law. Or at least special care is taken to make sure the third party, the baby, isn't hurt.

Link: http://www.aegis.com/news/lt/2004/LT040818.html

"In cities across China, women hustle porn on pedestrian overpasses and at tunnel entrances. Many are pregnant; others carry 1-year-olds, often rented for as little as a dollar a day. The babies are both props and shields: They enable buyers to immediately identify the sellers, and the women exploit a loophole in Chinese criminal law that allows for only a brief detainment of pregnant women or those with infants."

As for porn videos... no, you can't see them in the stores, for the same reason you can't see the prostitution going on in many of the "meirongyuan" (beauty parlors). You need to ask what you want!
Re:75% eh? by Dr.+Cody · 2004-12-27 16:06 · Score: 1

"In cities across China, women hustle porn on pedestrian overpasses and at tunnel entrances. Many are pregnant; others carry 1-year-olds, often rented for as little as a dollar a day. The babies are both props and shields: They enable buyers to immediately identify the sellers, and the women exploit a loophole in Chinese criminal law that allows for only a brief detainment of pregnant women or those with infants."

As for porn videos... no, you can't see them in the stores, for the same reason you can't see the prostitution going on in many of the "meirongyuan" (beauty parlors). You need to ask what you want!

I knew about the barber shops, but I had no idea that DVD had even shadier outlets.

BTW, xingfu.se? Which country's expat are you? asked the American taking a degree in Sweden

I hope they have enough content! by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 00:32 · Score: 4, Funny

The speed in the backbone network reaches 2.5 to 10 gigabits per second and connects the universities at a speed of 1 to 10 gigabits per second.

Tell me, Mr. Anderson, what good is a high speed network if you are unable to speak your mind?

Re:I hope they have enough content! by Chemisor · 2004-12-27 02:54 · Score: 2, Insightful

> what good is a high speed network if you are unable to speak your mind?

Where can you speak your mind? Certainly not in the US.
Re:I hope they have enough content! by killjoe · 2004-12-27 04:20 · Score: 1

Alas the US has a legal system that lets anyone sue for anything. This alone shuts up many people.

--
evil is as evil does
Re:I hope they have enough content! by Chemisor · 2004-12-27 06:08 · Score: 1

> You spoke. I listened. Now it's my turn to speak.
> That's how it works in a free and open society.

Yes, but neither of us said anything important. You see, the ruling party doesn't care much about petty criticisms. They come and go and all eventually die off. Very rarely the government may have to pass some token act to placate the populace, but mostly it is simpler to just ignore what people say. On the other hand, if we were discussing something that threatened their interests, we would quite likely be promptly shut up, named "terrorists", and thrown in jail for an indefinite time.
Re:I hope they have enough content! by TheWickedKingJeremy · 2004-12-27 06:17 · Score: 2, Insightful

Where can you speak your mind? Certainly not in the US.

Come now, that is a bit much. The U.S. has tons of problems, no doubt, but I wouldn't say that censorship is top of the list. You can speak your mind all you like... there certainly are areas of debate, such as the recent FCC clampdowns, but overall I don't think there is any truly evil censorship going on.

The way I see it, our problem (the current administration, the current direction and priorities of our country, etc) is something entirely else. Bush was voted in, after all... you want to find out why this happened, you need to look into why allegedly moral people are voting for plainly immoral things. But lets not pretend that all the great things about this country are completely dead. :)

--

my religion lies somewhere between buddhism and super monkey ball - pamphlet?
Re:I hope they have enough content! by paranoidgeek · 2004-12-27 07:36 · Score: 1

Im in NZ and our stamps no longer say "Merry Christmas" but instead say "Happy Holidays". Yeah we cant speak our mind hrer either.

--
Lima India November Uniform X-ray
Re:I hope they have enough content! by vladthetailor · 2004-12-27 08:10 · Score: 1

Yes Chemisor...and *I* am the King of the Potato People.

Which just goes to show you can make any wildass claim you like if you don't have to provide proof.
Re:I hope they have enough content! by TheWickedKingJeremy · 2004-12-27 08:28 · Score: 1

Im in NZ and our stamps no longer say "Merry Christmas" but instead say "Happy Holidays". Yeah we cant speak our mind hrer either.

That has absolutely nothing to do with you being able (or not being able) to speak your mind. That is not censorship. At worst, that is a case of political-correct-ness gone too far, and that is debatable.

--

my religion lies somewhere between buddhism and super monkey ball - pamphlet?
Re:I hope they have enough content! by Chemisor · 2004-12-27 11:21 · Score: 1

> you can make any wildass claim you like if you don't have to provide proof.

Very true. And I will not ask you to take me on faith, since that would be a moral crime. Just go read the text of the PATRIOT act and its sequel. I think you will see what I mean, even if you disagree with my interpretation.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by gad_zuki! · 2004-12-27 00:35 · Score: 4, Funny

>But don't worry, the moment you become a threat, you're quite certain there's some obscure, anal retentive prohibition, you'll get fucked over with.

Enough America bashing! We're talking about China!

Beneficial for adoption of IPv6 ? by Diabolical · 2004-12-27 00:39 · Score: 4, Interesting

From the article: One big benefit of the IPv6 is to solve the problem of shortage of IP addresses. In the current Internet based on IPv4 technology, the United States controls 74 per cent of 4 billion IP addresses, while the amount that China has is only equal to a campus of the University of California, despite its 80 million Internet users.

Although people think that with NAT all IPv4 related problems could be solved here we see a very good reason why the rest of the world could use IPv6. Most of the IPv4 ranges are in the US. The rest of the world just has to get by with whatever is left (Big companies gobbling up entire classes of IP ranges which they never really use should be obliged to gives those ranges back so others can use them).

Would this step be beneficial to the transition to IPv6? With the advent of the internet in other countries then the western world it could well be that things need to be sped up so that we will not see different internets. Has anyone done some real research on this subject? I know i keep hearing that with NAT and similar technologies IPv6 might not be necessary but is that really so given the rise of internet usage in Asia and other countries?

Re:Beneficial for adoption of IPv6 ? by jeroendekkers · 2004-12-27 01:08 · Score: 2, Informative

NAT doesn't solve all IPv4 related problems. It makes is possible that your second computer doesn't need another IP address and for that we don't really need IPv6.

But IPv6 solves a bigger problem, namely that routing tables of the core internet routers (those which don't have a default route) are really getting too big with IPv4. With IPv6 the number of routes can be an order of mangitude smaller.
Re:Beneficial for adoption of IPv6 ? by Diabolical · 2004-12-27 01:56 · Score: 1

It makes is possible that your second computer doesn't need another IP address and for that we don't really need IPv6.

Why do we give out all those IP address classes to companies while it isn't even necessary to do so?
We could stop worrying about any form of shortage if we make proper use of the technologies. Give a company only a small set of IP addresses for publicly available services (ftp/mail/web etc.) and let them use private class ranges for internal usage behind a NAT capable router/firewall/whatever.

But IPv6 solves a bigger problem, namely that routing tables of the core internet routers (those which don't have a default route) are really getting too big with IPv4. With IPv6 the number of routes can be an order of mangitude smaller.

That's a point i never thought of. So basicly with IPv6 the internet could be more responsive because of lesser time needed to search for routes in the routing tables etc.?

With IPv6 we can also give everyone a range for personal use which would be publicly accessible, wether or not this is what we really want/need.

Why is IPv6 not already adopted widely where possible?
Re:Beneficial for adoption of IPv6 ? by Jahz · 2004-12-27 08:24 · Score: 2, Informative
(Big companies gobbling up entire classes of IP ranges which they never really use should be obliged to gives those ranges back so others can use them)

Its not that easy. If I have 65 computers that need static IP's, I will need to buy at least 128 addresses. I cannot simply "give back" the unused IP's. Doing so would split a a subnet mask, and create a global routing nightmare.

With the advent of the internet in other countries then the western world it could well be that things need to be sped up so that we will not see different internets.

IPv6 was designed to coexist harmoniously with IPv4, otherwise it would have been laughed at. v4 packets that enter China's new network will be wrapped in a v6 packet. When they leave, they will be convereted back. There is no doubt that IPv6 adoption will be slow since it required massive infrastructure changes (lots of router upgrades/replacements). Therefore, we an expect many years of hybrid networks. When the transition phase is over, we can start moveing to IPv8 :-)

I know i keep hearing that with NAT and similar technologies IPv6 might not be necessary but is that really so given the rise of internet usage in Asia and other countries?

You should definitely read up on IPv6. True, 128 bits of IP is a major bonus, but there are many other reasons v6 is better than v4 (and some that it is not). Here are some:
- IPv6 does away with router packet fragmentation, Thus speeding up packets that travel over many networks (with different MTU's)
- IPv6 supports quality of service (QoS). QoS allows routers to *easily* give priority to packets of a certain class. i.e. your ISP will be able to sell different plans. The higher the plan, the more priority your packets get.
- The idea of a "flow." The allows routers to identify packets in the same connection and route them accordingly. i.e. your IP phone conversation could less jittery.
- The checksum header is completely removed. We are at a point where the proliferation of broadband is high enough that each router should not have to checksum every packet. It takes too much time. v6 shifts the burden of identifying erroneous packets the end computer. They happen too rarely to check at each router
As you can see, IPv6 is will make the internet faster overall. It also provides special support for streaming (flow) services, allowing for a better multimedia experience.
--
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who do not.

Re:What's the point? by gad_zuki! · 2004-12-27 00:41 · Score: 1

> just buy everything made in USA

But, but that's so expensive! And 'morals' in American mean one thing and one thing only - abortion.

*applies easy to remove 'Support our troops' magnetic sticker to his SUV*

Re:Why not us?? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 00:43 · Score: 1, Insightful

China is not a Communist country. It is a tool of the slaveowning capitalists.

In Other News... by mikewren420 · 2004-12-27 00:47 · Score: 1

...IPv6-sourced spam has suddently increased by 248% over the past 48 hours.

Re:In Other News... by LordXeno · 2004-12-27 03:58 · Score: 1

But the Americans don't use IPv6 yet..

There is no current shortage of IPv4 addresses! by chuckychesthair · 2004-12-27 00:50 · Score: 1

Cue the comments about shortage of IP addresses in China and how the US has almost all of the addresses. This is simply not true.

Currently about a third of the IPv4 addresses are still available, with about a sixth of the addresses used up in the last 12 years, world wide.

Current estimates (based on historical usage) give us about 20 to 35 years before we run out of IPv4 addresses, although this can be much less if new technologies get widely adopted (china and india becoming as connected as the western world is, mobile phones all getting addresses, voip taking off)

Big companies that are not even making sure that new hardware with a 5 year or more lifespan is IPv6 capable (or firmware upgradable) are shortsighted. On the other hand, companies that feel they need IPv6 now, and don't use it to pump up their tech credibility (about the only thing you can do currently with IPv6 that can't be done otherwise) are throwing away money.

CC

Re:There is no current shortage of IPv4 addresses! by RealBorg · 2004-12-27 01:12 · Score: 2, Informative

That's nonsense, we have already run out of IP adresses, that's why we get feature crippled 'name based virtual hosts', 'dynamic IP addresses', 'private networks with NAT',...
Re:There is no current shortage of IPv4 addresses! by paranoidgeek · 2004-12-27 07:40 · Score: 1

They havent run out ( ie have 0 spare ) , they are just so scarce that small sites, ftp hosts, etc just cant get their hands on an address.

--
Lima India November Uniform X-ray

Re:Get a clue by curious.corn · 2004-12-27 00:53 · Score: 3, Insightful

Of course not... but I'm sick of this "bad apple" tripe. While it's not representative of the US's population as a whole (not YOU or your dear nanny and her apple pie), the US Govt. has, throughout the last century thoroughly fucked up anyone's life it pleased. Wikipaedia or any random googling will route you to South America's unlucky fate as US neighbour and playground (banana republic, Chile, Allende, Argentina, Contra, Colombia... hell even Cuba) The US quite simply murdered or substantially helped psycotic dictators more than willing to do so, anyone that got in their business' way. And went on ranting away at Communist threat; which was nothing but exasperated farmers, shit poor bastards that just wished to improve their living standards to humane levels and shrug some robber barons off their back. Jeez, you could have helped them out like you did with Europe; tilt the balance towards socialdemocratic friendly systems but no, you had to go the Rummy way and get the swats in... No, I'm not US phobic; actually I sympathise with 49% you you folks ;-)

--
Mi domando chi Ã il mandante di tutte le cazzate che faccio - Altan

Re:so then... by 1u3hr · 2004-12-27 00:56 · Score: 1

In other situations, such as China, perpetuation of the gov't is more important, obviously, than protecting dissident speech.

That assumes that

"dissident speech" can be stopped
that "dissident speech" is harmful to the government

Apparently, the Beijing government, like yourself, seems to believe these are both self-apparent. However, since the advent of the fax machine and mobile phone, let alone the Internet, all governments have faced an increasingly impossible task in preventing the spread of unsanctioned information/news/propaganda. So when they do try to clamp down, as last year when local authorities tried to cover up SARS, the news quickly gets out and the rumours are much worse than allowing news to be reported as usual.

And when dissatisfaction arises, giving it an outlet allows people to demonstrate to the government their dissatisfaction (as currently in Hong Kong), where simply repressing it and pretending all is well leads to situations like North Korea today.

Re:Why not us?? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 01:09 · Score: 4, Insightful

Your comment is moderately trollish (as I'm sure my response will appear), but I'll bite. China is able to do it because they have a centralized controlling party. In America, things are pulling in all directions -- there is no single vision to get things done.

Examples:
Fuel -- China is going nuclear and is planning on being a major player in the energy-provider game in the near future.
Space -- China has an active space program, not the joke that the American space industry has become.
True, sometimes the ethics of the programs are a little off, but China is willing to take risks, especially if the payoffs warrant it. America just does not seem willing to take the risks.

More proof the US has jumped the shark by aurispector · 2004-12-27 01:09 · Score: 3, Insightful

If there was any doubt about it, this is more proof the US (and the rest of the western world for that matter)is losing the edge in technology. China and India continue to develop their industrial bases and accumulate the critical masses of professional expertise needed for a self sustaining tech economy.

With cheap labor and a friendly legal and regulatory environment, not to mention a huge domestic market, these countries are taking the tech lead.

We, on the other hand, sit back and cluck our tongues as every nitwit who gets a hangnail is allowed to sue the evil profit sucking corporations who obviously conspire to kill us all for profit.

I for one welcome our new asian technology masters.

--
I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.

Re:More proof the US has jumped the shark by handslikesnakes · 2004-12-27 07:38 · Score: 1

You're blaming the shift of technological centres on lawsuits and distrust of corporations? I think you've missed the mark a bit, especially considering that China is run by Communists.
Re:More proof the US has jumped the shark by siddhartha03 · 2004-12-27 07:52 · Score: 1

LOL
a friendly legal and regulatory environment

--
Sock puppets stole my sig.
Re:More proof the US has jumped the shark by aurispector · 2004-12-27 13:42 · Score: 1

No, I'm blaming the shift in technology centres to lawsuits, labor costs, and regulation. The commies view capitalism as a means to make lots of money and gain power. They don't give a damn about anything else. From what I understand it's still a bitch to be in business in china as everyone's palms need greasing, but you don't have to worry about legal or regulatory problems if you're willing to grease enough palms. Think of it as predictable cost control.

Ever hear of Vioxx?

--
I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
Re:More proof the US has jumped the shark by PingPongBoy · 2004-12-29 07:24 · Score: 1

a friendly legal and regulatory environment

Agreed. In terms of achieving global superiority.

Not so agreed in terms of individual rights and freedoms.

--
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.

I for one welcome ... by verus+vorago · 2004-12-27 01:32 · Score: 2, Funny

our new Chinese overlords

Is it funny when it's true?

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 01:40 · Score: 1, Insightful

Falun Gong and all religions should be discouraged. Superstition is unworthy of modern man.

"The" Online News Site? by Howzer · 2004-12-27 01:41 · Score: 1

Here is a link to the story in the English version of China Daily, the online news site in People's Republic of China.

Might be more accurate to say "an" online news site. There is of course People's Daily, Xinhua Net, etc. etc. etc.

Seeing China as this huge, backward giant with one, monolithic information source is so 1978. I mean, really, this story alone surely debunks that simplistic, wrongheaded, sadly common view...

Re:"The" Online News Site? by phoenix.bam! · 2004-12-27 07:21 · Score: 1

No no no! China censors their population! I know this become there was a story about it! I didn't actually read the story, but from other people's comments chinese citizens have no idea what is going on in the world because the government has an Agent always standing in the room a computer is in use in making sure the chinese person never ever reads anything that would be counter to the governments opinions.

And I got all that information from a very intelligent slashdot reader who has obviously never himself spoken with a person living in china nor ever researched the actual control the chinese goverment does have on its people.

That all was a poorly worded rant. I'd like to point out the chinese censorship/ information control that slashdot readers always like to mention is mostly people here at the great slashdot.org believe their own propeganda.

Re:IPv6 addresses are too hard to remember by pioppo · 2004-12-27 01:44 · Score: 3, Funny

You don't have to remember them!
You know, there's a tool called DNS which just for this purpose...

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by djupedal · 2004-12-27 01:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

I moved to China less than 6 months ago - like any move, it is a combination of good news and bad, but the good news, like this, makes me happy I'm here :)

Add in the free HDTV set top boxes, all new subways in this province and living like a king for pennies a day, and the US won't see me back any time soon.

random port scanning by oliverthered · 2004-12-27 01:51 · Score: 1

With IPV6 they'll be able to target you by you post code, making it easier to DDOS the fridge of a fat billionaire.

--
thank God the internet isn't a human right.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by adeydas · 2004-12-27 02:06 · Score: 1

and that in other words implies no freedom of speech against ruling parties...

troll? by Errtu76 · 2004-12-27 02:07 · Score: 2

How is saying "this isn't true" (which is a fact) a troll? Wait... wait ... do i actually care about karma? I guess not, by typing this mail (which will be moderated OT without a doubt).

The Biggest IPv6 Network? by isa-kuruption · 2004-12-27 02:07 · Score: 2, Interesting

Five years ago when I worked for a major backbone provider (Qwest Comm.) and as I was talking to one of the global network engineers, he was wearing a shirt that had a Qwest logo and an IPv6 network under it. I asked him if that was for Qwest's IPv6 netblock and he indicated yes. We talked for about 15 minutes during which time he explained that Qwest, along with others like MCI/Worldcomm and AT&T (and several other big names you'd recognize if I cared enough to list them all), had a "parallel" IPv6 network running across the U.S. and some of them were even passing live internet traffic over these routers using encapsulation. However, the routers knew each other by their IPv6 address space.

So, five years later, how can the poster say CERNET2 is the biggest IPv6 network in the world? I would say "prove it". I would think several large international backbone providers who had links with each other passing live traffic would be considered pretty damned big!

Re:The Biggest IPv6 Network? by batemanm · 2004-12-27 02:47 · Score: 1

Abilene IPv6 Map seems a reasonable size already.
Re:The Biggest IPv6 Network? by iabervon · 2004-12-27 06:53 · Score: 1

I think these days, the backbones are primarily using IPv6, tunnelling IPv4 traffic over it, because IPv6 has advantages for routing and backbone providers don't have to deal with end users whose software isn't capable of dealing with IPv6. On the other hand, the backbones don't have a lot of non-router machines on them, so CERNET2 might be the biggest in terms of users using IPv6 directly.

Re:Why not us?? by revscat · 2004-12-27 02:38 · Score: 1

Why isn't anyone asking the question, "Why are WE not implementing IPv6 already?!"

Because Americans have been brought up to zealously defend the so-called free market, and any cognitive dissonance brought up by challenges to this meme are met with energetic ignoring.

Under many circumstances socialism works. But we're supposed to hate China because Fox News tells me America is more free, so let me dutifully say "At least I live in a free country". And now, back to Sean Hannity.

You make no sense at all by srcosmo · 2004-12-27 02:42 · Score: 1

"Ha ha! By allowing the Chinese government to clamp down on personal freedoms (and adopt IPv6), we capitalists will enslave THE ENTIRE WORLD!!!"

--
free speach
Did you mean: free speech

Re:Why not us?? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 02:55 · Score: 1, Informative

Research project of Tsinghua University pebble-bed reactor, and become competent. There will not be piles of waste as are produced with the foolish and wasteful reactor design using fuel rods-the technology forced upon the US by its naval administration and since carried forward in ignorance despite Oppenheimer's idea; it took China to realize that and achieve practical nuclear fission electrical power production.

Re:Not at all by CmdrGravy · 2004-12-27 03:06 · Score: 1

So the US employs torture techniques and locks people up without a trial if it thinks they might be a threat but maybe not on quite the same scale as it may happen in China. The only real difference appears to be in scale.

No doubt at some point in China there will also be investigations but investigation hasn't stopped the US carrying out a variety of illegal and nasty actions in the here and now and isn't likely to stop China in the here and now either.

It has been decalred illegal in the UK to hold people without trial based on evidence they cant' be told about and yet those people are still in prison with no immediate propect of release.

Re:You are an example by CmdrGravy · 2004-12-27 03:15 · Score: 1

"... commonly reported forms of torture included beatings (82%), electric shocks (64%), being suspended or restrained in painful positions (60%) witnessing others being tortured (22%) burned with hot objects such as cigarettes (11%), exposure to extreme temperatures (11%), being forced to stare at the sun (11%), sleep deprivation (9%), mock execution (7%), blood drawn against the individual's will."

Is that a quote from the US Militaries approved guide for 'safeguarding the welfare of illegal combatatents and terrorists' ?

At least 3 of those techniques - tortures - are definitley in regular use by the US.

CERNET2 by AviLazar · 2004-12-27 03:15 · Score: 1

any relation to CERN??

--

I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.

Not much different than Internet2 in the US by Anonymous Coward · 2004-12-27 03:22 · Score: 1, Informative

I'm not quite sure that I agree with the assertion that this is the biggest next-generation Internet network in operation in the world. Certainly networks research and education networks, such as Eurpe's GEANT, CA*Net in Canada, and Internet2 in the US could give this network a run for its' money in size.

This network is very similar to the Internet2's Abilene research and education network in the US. The difference is Internet2 runs routers in "dual-stack" mode, meaning they support both IPv4 and IPv6 on the same device. If you wanted to connect to Internet2's backbone using only IPv6, so could do so, but almost everyone chooses to have both IPv4 and IPv6 connections

Isolate Spam by PhYrE2k2 · 2004-12-27 03:31 · Score: 1

Yes I know an article yesterday said seventy-something percent of Spam comes from the US. Nonetheless, I seem to get a ton of it from Chinanet.. Maybe if they can't access our networks...

*note: meant as funny- there really are a lot of flaws in this statement*

--

when you see the word 'Linux', drink!

Usage statistics: by Alsee · 2004-12-27 03:33 · Score: 2, Funny

The network hit full capacity less than 48 hours after coming online. Analysis reveals:

53% of traffic was bittorrent
38% of all traffic was spam.
31% of traffic was porn.
22% of traffic was due to windows viruses and spyware.
17% of traffic was first-person shooter games.
13% of traffic was VoIP.
8% of traffic was Slashdot-related.
3% were Last Pages of the internet.
0.13549% of traffic was scientific data.

Note that Spam is 46% of all e-mail traffic and bittorrent is 43% of all P2P traffic.

-

--
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.

Re:Usage statistics: by Alsee · 2004-12-27 09:31 · Score: 1

Um...isn't that like 185% ?

Nope, way off. Grin. Based on the last line you really should be adding the figures for ALL email and ALL P2P, not merely the figures for spam and bittorrent. If you rework the math correctly you get a nice round total.

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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.

Obligatory CnC:Generals quote by alc6379 · 2004-12-27 03:35 · Score: 1

China has been generous!

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I don't moderate anymore. Karma penalty for 90% fair mods? Can I mod that unfair?

North America has no real interest by PhYrE2k2 · 2004-12-27 03:37 · Score: 1

Some time ago (about a year), I called up WorldCom/MCI and asked them about getting an IPv6 address so that we could offer it to our customers (mostly as hype). Naturally, they said they had no IPv6 networks, nothing deployed, and have no immediate plans. Far off in the future.

So North America (mainly US) has no real interest in the cost of switching ALL of their computer systems, legacy systems, routers, and server systems to IPv6, so it really is a lot of work.

The problem isn't in the US where we sit on tons of IPs. Then again, why are there still web browsers that don't sent the HOST: header?

Also, not everyone is upgrading to WIn2k3 (for example)- where's IPv6 for those running NT4, 2000, etc? Where's IPv6 for old AIX machines?

--

when you see the word 'Linux', drink!

Re:so then... by coraxo · 2004-12-27 03:46 · Score: 1

When it comes to censorship, a government has to walk weigh the pros and cons of free speech vs protecting it's interests.
Yes, who else can weight anything in totalitarian system or even democratic for that matter.

Only because goverment can't think of anything else to 'protect' its citizens that doesn't mean that 'perpetuation of gov't'/censorship is the right way.
Only ten years ago, people/countries would criticize china for all the shit that's going on, but looks like in the new 'world order' nobody cares anymore .

--
Strc prst skrz krk and vomit! Can help.

not necessarily a shortage by bedessen · 2004-12-27 03:58 · Score: 1, Flamebait

As far as I understand it, the idea that there is a shortage of IPv4 addresses is really a myth. I read a paper that someone wrote that came to the conclusion that even with the current growth rate (exponential) that we would not run out of addresses for another 20 years or so.

I think the real problem is that these days the RIRs (such as ARIN and APNIC) require justification before allocating netblocks. That means you have to show either current usage need or plans for future expansion, or both. You can't just say, "I'd like a /16 please" and expect to get it it. So really I think the non-US countries like to say "netspace is limited" but what they really mean is "sure we can get all the netblocks we want but it requires some paperwork and justification and we're just bitter that old companies back in the 80s were handed out whole /8s for the asking."

By the way, here is the data I have that shows total number of IP addresses for all netblocks allocated to each country (top 10):

US 1,828,328,425
JP 117,486,311
GB 84,658,624
DE 69,438,200
AU 65,918,741
CA 64,257,591
CN 54,172,684
FR 45,387,299
NL 35,056,078
KR 34,084,629

The source for these numbers was the aggregated data from http://ip-to-country.webhosting.info/

Re:not necessarily a shortage by NTmatter · 2004-12-27 10:55 · Score: 1

In case you haven't noticed, China has roughly the equivalent of 3.2 Class A's assigned to it. Let's put this in proportion for a moment. According to IANA the IBM (009/8), DEC(016/8), MIT (018/8), and the US Postal Service (056/8) collectively hold more address space than China.

Why does the US Postal service require more than 1/4 of China's address space? More importantly, will they give it up when the time comes that the rest of the world needs it?

While we might not run out of address space for 20 years, I think that the author of your paper was being optimistic in assuming that the corporate world would be willing to modify its infrastructure to "play nice" with address space, shedding extra addresses and keeping everything on private networks (10/8) with only machines that need global accessibility having globally-routable IP addresses.

The IPv4 address shortage is only a myth to countries that have as much address space as they need. It is real elsewhere. China has a population of approximately 1,284,303,705 (July 2002, http://www.nationbynation.com/China/Population.htm l) with your 54,172,684 allocated addresses. That would leave one IP address for every 23 people. Compare this to the United States with 295,065,333 (December 2004, http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/popclock) having at least 6 addresses for every last man, woman, child, and infant.

All in all, I don't think that they're bitter that companies got /8's because they asked. They're bitter because they can't have as much space as they need, let alone the sort of opulent overallocation seen elsewhere. And yes, their netspace is limited, and they need it.
Re:not necessarily a shortage by bedessen · 2004-12-27 13:00 · Score: 1

You can't possibly compare those legacy /8 allocations from the primordial days of the internet to todays modern allocation procedures. If today any of those organizations asked for /8s they would be laughed at. Apples and freeking oranges. The fact that the US has an astronomical amount of IP space allocated to it is due to the fact that most of those huge chunks were allocated way back in the early days of classful routing, before CIDR and aggregation. These days if you are in the US and you request netspace you go through the same justifaction and documentation procedure that someone in china goes through.

I don't dispute the fact that there are a lot of people in china and comparatively few assigned blocks. However, that doesn't mean there's a scarcity. There are oodles and oodles of unallocated ranges still left in IPv4 and if governments or corporations in APNIC were asking for netspace and could justify it, then they would be allocated it, or some of the reserved space would be assigned to APNIC. The fact that china's allocations are so small is a result of them not requesting them (and being able to justify those requests), not a result of scarcity. You have to also realize that while china has a huge population, the amount of people that have access to the internet is relatively low. You can't just say "look they have a billion people and only 50 million addresses allocated." If any chinese organization wants ip space they can get it, as long as it's jutifiable -- the same is true for any organization over the world today.
Re:not necessarily a shortage by burns210 · 2004-12-27 13:06 · Score: 1

I think we should move to IPv6 for many reasons, but one is to simply destroy all reasonable arguments about ipv4 addresses. Yes, with NAT and other technologies, we may very well be able to live on the v4 addresses. But why should we 'get by' with 32 bit addresses when 128 bit addresses not only solve any nagging issues of the limited ammount of remaining addresses, but also introduces mandatory security (ipsec) gives us almost unimaginable option into how to split up addresses(each sovereign nation could get a Class A of Class A's, just because), removes issues like port scanning huge percentages of all internet addresses and has other benefits as well.

We should/do use computer/host/dns names already, making the 'ugliness' of ipv6 address less of an issue. We have abbreviation for address (::), and if we use NAT, we can still use 10.x.x.x for LAN and just have an IPv4v6 gateway at the WAN connection or what not.

For a industry that is all about the latest and greatest. It is nothing more than pathetic to think IPv6 is still a toy and not a backbone technology.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by Tackhead · 2004-12-27 03:59 · Score: 1

> Ok fine, as long as you don't become a problem for the system you're (more or less) left alone... it's called jus murmurandi. Any non liberal political system is very lax in applying such repression so not to alienate the majority of the subdued masses; which are pretty condescending as long as their primary needs are satisfied. But don't worry, the moment you become a threat, you're quite certain there's some obscure, anal retentive prohibition, you'll get fucked over with.

So in other words, you get the security benefits of a police state, and 99.999999% of your population gets the freedom benefits of a liberal democracy.

Sign me up. At present, we've got the bad parts of this system, but without the security. The Chinese model (stable political structure, growing middle class, astounding GDP growth) is looking more attractive all the time.

IPs, anyone? by someonehasmyname · 2004-12-27 04:19 · Score: 1

Anyone have the IPs so I can put them in my blacklist?

--
Common sense is not so common.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · 2004-12-27 06:41 · Score: 1

Good for you. Go there now. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

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Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!

Re:so then... by jericho4.0 · 2004-12-27 06:59 · Score: 1

51% of people agree, democracy rocks!

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"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis

Re:Get a clue by Frank+T.+Lofaro+Jr. · 2004-12-27 07:00 · Score: 1

Your last link is about the Catholic church, which is not part of the US gov't and is not US specific.

Or is your point that if the US were as liberal is you'd want them to be, the gov't would outlaw the Church.

--
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by handslikesnakes · 2004-12-27 07:41 · Score: 1

Ooooh, you sure showed him!

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by pinkocommie · 2004-12-27 07:42 · Score: 1

So where in china are you and whats the IT Job market like? ;)

...American bastion falls... by bookemdano63 · 2004-12-27 08:52 · Score: 1

MUMBAI: Another American bastion falls to the Chinese Dragon. China has announced today the launch of the first backbone network of the next-generation Internet...

from http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k4/dec /dec248.htm/
Is this another Supercollider fiasco? Seems not enough in the US are interested in maintaining technological lead.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by djupedal · 2004-12-27 11:25 · Score: 1

The job market is busting at the seams for middle managers. They have lots of smart techs, but it will be one more generation before they learn TQM, etc. If you know how to run a business, factory or project, you can start now. I walked right into an Operations Manager position for a small manufacturing tech firm, turning down 3 other offers at the same time.

China is the IT center of the world. by zhou2 · 2004-12-28 02:13 · Score: 1

Speaking in Beijing in September, Cisco Systems President and Chief Executive Officer John Chambers said China "will become the IT center of the world."

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China, the IT center of the world.

not flamebait by bedessen · 2004-12-28 14:59 · Score: 1

To the person that modded this Flamebait, I was not trying to be racist or anything. I was trying to point out that the "IPv4 space scarcity" is a myth, and that with todays current allocation procedures a US company faces the same documentation and justification guidelines that a Chinese company faces. The only reason that the US has so many more allocations is because back in the 80s when the internet was small /8s were handed out to companies that asked for it, and most of them were US companies or government organizations. There is no jingoism or nationality to it. It's a result of how allocations used to work and the situation is much different today.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by AbRASiON · 2004-12-28 15:57 · Score: 1

You should have some kind of journal / photo's or web site on this, I know I for one am interested in this.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by djupedal · 2004-12-28 16:34 · Score: 1

No kidding? I can do that...just a matter of find the time I guess.

I originally did four years working in Japan for a firm making MRI machines - living outside the US is not for everyone, but it works for me... I then went back to the states, and got tired of the job market all over again, and ended up working for a huge electronics firm in Korea for another 4 years...all the while, wishing I was living/working in China, which I'd visited several times. I thought about going to China instead of Korea, but the job and business climate didn't seem quite ready for my needs at that time.

I waited for WTO to finish, so that I could come here and find better work and higher pay - I wanted the environment to take shape before I got here.

I finished in Korea and went back to the states, and found the same depressed job market, with so many out of work in the tech sector and pay flat, etc.

I tried to find a job in China, while sitting the Portland, but that didn't go anywhere. I knew the jobs were here, but I had to be here to participate. I finally sold everything off, pocketed the money and moved into a hotel, just inside China, right across from HongKong.
The recruiters won't take a close look at you if you don't fit the need that is on the sheet in front of them at the moment, so I had to cold call on local businesses - the ones that let me talk, and understood my resume, were all very interested, and next thing I knew I was turning down work and picking the job that interested me the most. I wanted to avoid a company that was staffed w/Americans, and work in an environment where I could study Chinese culture and business close up.

I now manage over 250 workers - just having an American around seems to make them want to do their best. Again, while there are many talented youngsters, there are not enough experienced managers to guide them and teach them how the rest of the world works and thinks. It's kind of fun watching them learn and catch on - The Chinese are not worker-bots like the Japanese or Koreans...they are more like westerners, in that they can act individually, etc.

As I said, living & working outside your own culture isn't for everyone. You need a thick skin and tons of patience. If you can settle in and know that there are good days and bad, you too can come to Asia and have the career you've been forced to put off elsewhere.

Re:I suddenly have this urge to move to China... by djupedal · 2004-12-28 16:48 · Score: 1

Check these out....from Monster - I get these every day, and they just keep growing.
Your job search agent titled "China agent 01 writer/project mgr." matched new jobs based on your search criteria.

Dec 22 22:34:52, Subcontract Manager,MRI - Hong Kong,CN
Dec 22 15:24:27, Asian Marketing Director - Located in China,Pentair, Inc.,CN-Shanghai
Dec 22 15:36:17, Sourcing Manager - Office Supplies - Asia,Staples,CN-Shekou, China
Dec 22 15:42:31, Export / Shipping / Operations Manager,Staples,CN-Shekou, China
Dec 22 15:55:32, Customer Service Manager,GE Energy,CN
Dec 22 01:47:31, MANAGER (SAP) - BEIJING,Bentley

Dec 12 16:27:43, Recruitment Manager,Hudson Global Resources,CN-China
Dec 12 16:05:21, Human Resources Manager - China (BJ/SH),Hudson Global Resources,CN-China
Dec 12 10:14:33, HR Director,Hudson Global Resources,CN-China
Dec 12 09:30:57, Equipment Engineering Manager (Shanghai based),Hudson Global Resources,CN-China
Dec 12 08:10:53, Senior Relationship Manager - Corporate Banking,Hudson Global Resources,CN-China
Dec 12 08:19:25, Electrical Design Manager,Hudson Global Resources,CN-China
Dec 12 01:54:21, Sr Human Resource Manger - US MNC,Harton Reed Limited,CN

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