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B612 Foundation and 2004 YD5 Asteroid Capture?
aisnota writes "The B612 Foundation hopes to alter the orbit of an asteroid in a controlled manner by 2015 and seems ready to do the obvious and capture 2004 YD5. Slice it up, put the pieces into aerobrake containers like a simplified version of the Mars landers. Then just sell the pieces on EBay to fund more ambitious projects."
Whether taking the matter into their own hands, privately funded B612 will have an uphill battle to begin the process with such limited funding. Perhaps they would be better suited as an international scientific lobby, making the case and such apologetics as to attract attention to the issue.
Also, in case you're wondering, B612 is the asteroid home of Antoine de Saint-Exupéry's protagonist in The Little Prince.
Sigs cause cancer.
If they can alter orbit that much, perhaps they could threaten to crash it into earth and hold the world ransom for one meeeelion dollars.
Hm... high hopes. Why not just slice it up into good shapes for dropping?
Heh, I tried selling pieces of an 'asteroid' on ebay before, too!
When the buyer found out that it was just rocks from my back yard, he was pretty heated! Damn you B612 for stealing
Excuse me, I don't mean to impose, but I am the ocean
That B612 is a 501(c)(3)
If they can do this, can they also threaten our seaports with platoons of friggin' sharks with friggin' lasers on their heads?
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Why do I have this ominous feeling of dread when I think of some overzealous people trying to prove they can do something as destructive as messing with an asteroid. I am sorry, but I like that asteroid nice and FAR from us. Blowing things up has a habit of spreading pieces in a chaotic fashion - pieces that might fall our way. I hope there is a more practical application - like say if one day an asteroid is going to hit us they will use these techniques to divert Earth from mass devastation (would render many movies to pure fiction...oh wait)
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
How do they expect to be taken seriously with a name like B612 Foundation? I propose the alternative name "`Shit! Shit! The Meteors are Coming!' Foundation" instead.
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This is hardly going to work. They put the pieces into (expensive, once you make enough and thet them up there) containers, then drop them to Earth. How the heck do they expect to get them back? A container like this is not a very controlled re-entry device. Do they just expect anyone who comes across one, or anyone who's property it lands on to return it to them? What of the liability of hurling this at someone's property or home or body? It's not a problem on Mars, since Mars is free of pesky lawyers so far, but on Earth - big problem due to the lawyer infestation.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
So they slice it up and it comes back to Earth, but it doesn't land where they want it. What if it lands in my backyard? Can I sell it? See, they haven't even done it yet and now we need a lawyer!
Tsk tsk. I think somewhere in eBay's prohibited items list, there is a rule against selling anything that contains or ever consisted of atoms.
""See? He's got atoms in his pockets! Call the local constabulary, Smithers!". "
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
Here is an alternative means of asteroid deflection. Let's park the two remaining USA space shuttles in orbit. We may need to add to their mass by filling them with metal. Then, via remote control, they are ready to set on a collision course with any asteroid that is at risk for a collision with earth. The resulting shuttle to asteroid impact should alter the course of the asteroid or break it up enough to eliminate the planetary threat.
What if there is life on it? (E.g. bacteria, not little green men.) Shouldn't it be quarantined until it is determined that there are no harmful chemical or biological substances associated with it? Or have I been watching too many old B movies?
1. Alter asteroid orbit 2. Capture asteroid 3. Slice asteroid 4. Sell asteroid 5. Profit!
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
Argh! Spidey sense tingling! Sense danger somewhere...
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From TFA:
The object, named 2004 YD5, was about 16 feet (5 meters) wide, though that's a rough estimate based on its distance and assumed reflectivity. Had it entered the atmosphere, it would have exploded high up, experts figure.
You can assuage your fears to a great extent by the not-often-used practice of actually reading the linked web site. They've already ruled out nuclear devices in any use, and their intent is not to smash an asteroid at all, but just alter its trajectory.
Virg
warning, I didn't RTFA.
Why would this be a non-profit company? This seems like it would be the first instance of asteroid mining. Wouldn't they want to profit from the chunks they get? I mean, it's mining. When has that ever been done for anything but earning money off the stuff being mined?
Perhaps they plan on giving all the money to some charity but I don't think regular companies are restricted from spending profit whoever they want.
Getting tax breaks is the only thing I can think of. I hope some other entity beats them to it and makes a fortune. That would work wonders to boost private space.
Blaze a trail to the New World
I hope someone will post here when they plan to pull off this wacky caper so I can remember to bring my umbrella to work that day...
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Lets ignore the obvious problem of where you're going to get all that extra mass to fill the shuttles. The Space shuttles are basically low Earth orbit devices. They can go up a few hundred miles. That's it. They can't even go and service the communications sattelites in geosynchronous orbit, for example - they just don't carry anywhere near enough fuel to get them there. To deflect an asteroid you need to be able to hit it hard (momentum is based on mass and speed), In contrast to any asteroid that would present a problem to Earth, the space shuttle has neither. So not only would the shuttle not be able to hit an asteroid far enough away from Earth do do any good, it wouldn't have the momentum to get it's attention.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
Doubtful.. Simple physics.. HUGE FUCKIN' ASTEROID against tiny American Space Shuttle. You would need to get the Shuttle going pretty damn fast to cause any noticable difference. But I guess if the asteroid were small enough.. Alright. I like it for a backup plan.
What is your penile percentile?
This may be a ridiculous idea (IANAP), but I thought that it would be cool if we could stop this thing and put it into a geosynchronous orbit and use it as the space side anchor for a space elevator. It might save some of the huge costs involved with moving things into space. Then again, it may cost much more to do this. Just an idea...
I'm sure lots of astronomy buffs will snap those up.
Sort of a DIRECT commercialization of space! LOL
I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
...would be a far off thing!
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It seems that if they can capture it into earth orbit, it would be more valuable where it is. It costs a lot of money to launch heavy things into space, it may be more valuable as a source of raw materials already in orbit.
It might eventually even be useful as a counterweight for a space elevator.
-jim
Notice that they don't say they intend to influence a 1km asteroid, so while it would be impressive just to hit anything moving that fast, this may fall somewhat short of overwhelming.
Caution - poster has no actual knowledge. Read at your own risk.
Why sell something like this on eBay and give them profit for practically nothing?
Obviously this would generate massive publicity, and anyone wanting to buy a piece of this asteroid would go to the project website first. In other words, the people buying these chunks would not be people randomly browsing eBay and looking for something to burn money on. In fact I bet most of them would have to sign up to eBay just to bid on these pieces.
IMO, eBay is simply comprised of an infrastructure to handle auctions (which implementation-wise isn't that much of a task), and a pool of sellers and buyers. The latter is where eBay dominates and is the sole reason they are successful. However when it comes to something like selling these asteroid pieces, having a large seller / bidder user base is a moot point. In fact it is a detriment because it hurts the signal to noise ratio of legitimate bidders.
Dan East
Better known as 318230.
A evil madman has an astrorid in earth orbit holding the world ransom for $10 Trillion dollars or else he deorbits it over Washington DC and wipe out the entire US and Europe. Even evil madmen need to test the technology and raise venture capitial...
they could threaten to crash it into earth and hold the world ransom
I think the biggest threat when moving an asteroid is not a conscious effort to destroy earth*, but an idiotic screw-up....which destroys earth*.
*No, i don't beleive the earth can be destroyed that easily either. I'm talking about life as we know it.
You forget the proportions: The shuttles are in a low altitude orbit. A few 100km height is neglectable compared to the diameter of the earth. Its like 2cm above the surface of a soccerball. If anything is THAT close, you would need to change its direction by 90degrees... which is way harder than just change it by a few arcseconds a month ahead...
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
Well the asteriod they are planning to move is small and would burn up on its own. But we are adding a heat shield to it.....Hmmmmm.
yet Cat Stevens is the real danger to the world.
i saw the baby, and the baby looked at me
Raise funding for more ambitious projects by blackmailing the world governments. Make them pay you to keep the asteroid from crashing into the earth on purpose.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
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Perhaps it would be simpler to download Back Orifice and "hack" the asteroid, a la Independance Day.
After all, it's an ass-steroid, right?
Build robot lander to deliver "slow nuke" device to asteroid surface. Melt the little bugger completely, boil off light molecules to vacuum, allow to cool (which will take some time) and then park remaining ball of heavy metals in orbit. Robotic equipment can grab it from there.
Okay, there is a little slippage technology-wise, but at least it gives us something to do with all those fissionables we have laying around. It might even be possible to but a spin on the critter and get the heavier elements into one spot, and then just keep them while putting the rest of the iron and whatnot into parking orbit at L5 until we can figure out how to use it.
*whup* "Get along, little electrons. Heeyah!"
With 2004 MN4 heading this way, we can just wait for *it* to come to *us*. It's probaby got a *much* greater chance of getting asteroid material on Earth than these guys do...
The only accurate part of the submission is "The B612 Foundation hopes to alter the orbit of an asteroid in a controlled manner by 2015".
Reading the B612 site reveals that everything else was made up by the submittor. The B12 foundation has not picked the specific asteroid, and they have no intention to either "slice it up" nor return any of it to earth.
The missing step #2 is:
2. Cut product up into pieces and sell on ebay.
Now it all makes sense.
fnord.
Jesus is up for sale on eBay? cool.
Seastead this.
Yea, we just altered the orbit of a large asteroid! 6 months later: The change in orbit of asteroid B612 has in turn altered the orbit of asteroid C257 which has in turn altered the orbit of asteroid B191. Asteroid B191 is now on a collision course with the Earth and will hit in 4 years!
To increase funding to themselves by 200% by 2006 even if it means resorting to Fox News-esque scare tactics.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
More mass on the earth.
Earth gets more massive.
Earth gets a closer orbit to the sun...
Earth get very hot!
Seasons shorten!
Danger, Will Robinson!
Maybe they can test this theory by catching one and deorbiting it over Mars just to make sure their plan is sound. We don't want to find out that it's not going to work right as it's entering the atmosphere over the Atlantic as one giant chunk. It figures we would kill ourselves off by our own stupidity. All this time the planet has been trying to keep the asteroids away with that nice moon of ours to deflect them, and we go and bring one right in.
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
The human-controlled asteroid is now the most deadly weapon in the arsenal.
Rusty Schweickart is the only independent involved in the venture. A quick google query brought me to his homepage, where there are some very nifty links to space stuff.
Astronauts make good sources for space-related links!
Rusty Schweickart is the only independent involved in the venture. A quick google query brought me to his homepage, where there are some very nifty links to space stuff.
Astronauts make good sources for space-related links!
Rusty Schweickart is the only independent involved in the venture. A quick google query brought me to his homepage, where there are some very nifty a href="http://www.well.com/user/rs/links.h
Blearf. Blearf, I say.
Almost nothing in the article summary seems to come from the article source, and most seems to be directly contrary to it. I can find nothing on the foundation's website to indicate that they are interested in asteroid 2004 YD5 or that they are interested in returning any part of an asteroid to earth. This seems to be the author's own harebrained idea, and is the source of most of the derision that people are aiming at the foundation.
To quote from their site:
"Given the implicit structural weakness of asteroids greater than ~200 meters in diameter, we want to make certain that we select one in this class. Clearly the challenge of reorienting and accelerating an asteroid classified as a rubble pile is greater than dealing with a solid object. This is therefore, a key characteristic in choosing our particular NEA."
They want to find an asteroid (they have not chosen one yet!) that is large and not even close to being a threat to earth and alter its orbit in a small but detectable manner.
No Ebay. No lasers. No 2004 YD5.
And as you tread the halls of sanity, You feel so glad to be, Unable to go beyond. I have a message, From another time..
Yet another wonderful idea from the 1970s gets recycled.....Yes, you, too, can have your own little asteroid to care for.
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws."--Tacitus, The Histories
The chances of them pulling this off are 1/233.
Oh wait, now its 1/45.
Hang on, odds have changed again 1/56000....
liqbase
I'm curious how they plan to "slice it up."
People have known how to slice up rocks for millenia. Egyptian pyramides are build from sliced up rocks, pre-Columb Peruvian cities build from sliced up rocks, and even Great Chinese wall is build from sliced up rocks.
And in XIX century one guy have invented much better tool to slice up rocks. He got so rich that he have established an annual prize for advance in science. His name was Alfred Nobel.
This was long before first laser was even thought of.
Silly.
Well, this certainly sounds like a candidate for a possible future Darwin award winner. Let's just hope they don't take the whole planet out with them. :)
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That means this corporation is filed as a "tax-exempt organization".
Hollow words will burn and hollow men will burn.
Seriously, why not?
They got excited when they figured out the whole butterfly farting and causing tornados in the midwest thing .. now someone wants to try and change the course/destroy an asteroid and they all just wet their pants.
Anyone considering the implications of removing a stellar object from the cosmos? I know this one is small, but what is it possible that there is some sort of junction of asteroids/comets/etc., and they all exert some sort of gravitation pull that keeps them on their current courses? How do we know that just by removing this little one, some far-off solar system doesn't just collapse?
I'm a music composer, so I apologize for my ignorance. It's always fun to make people think a little, though.
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One would think that the shockwave and energy released when a large object strikes the earth and creates a huge crater would tend to kill anything, even microscopic life. But yes, it is certainly possible that some of the millions of asteroids striking earth may have the optimum size and speed to preserve their contents without too much damage -- especially if the struck the ocean at an oblique angle.
NIMBY !!
Alright. I like it for a backup plan.
And of course, the shuttle could only protect us from shuttle-mass type objects, which would burn up in the atmosphere anyway. So it would be a good distraction for the general populace, if and when.
The OP made up a blatantly false article and it got through? Is it really too much to ask that you at least check the links in the article submission? After all, what if someone submitted links using tinyurl.com that were to shall we say less savory websites? Even a cursory 5 minute check of the B612 site would have shown the falseness of the submission.
The person submitting the article didn't happen to work for CBS or NBC, did s/he?
My Suburban burns less gasoline than your Prius.
Your sense of humor is severely broken, and, quite possibly, it is beyond repair. Please visit the nearest mental institution and check yourself in for an indefinite stay.
If they're using the method I saw on a documentary about this group, it's mounting a low thrust rocket (ion jet I think) on the asteroid and slowly deflecting the orbit. So continuous tracking and plenty of time (years) to change course, unlike the Hollywood option of planting nukes in boreholes and detonating them with 2 seconds to spare.
No, just looks like a complete nutcase, according to [the archive of]his website
PS -- the quoted text ("The NEA that we will choose..."); what's the URL? I can't find that on the site.
I was wondering when the mining Laser on my Cobra MkIII would get a workout ;)
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They're going to slice it up after it lands on Earth.
You'd get a lot more "bang for the buck" by simply using the sun. Insolation at Earth orbit is pretty high (1.3kW/m^2?), so construct a suitably large mirror for focusing sunlight. Park the mirror so that it illuminates the asteroid, and it will eventually become molten.
Then you might try zone refining by sweeping the beam of concentrated sunlight down the length of the molten or near-molten asteroid. This should allow the nickel and iron to at least separate.
There are a great many engineering details to work out -- like a backing mirror to provide insulation to the asteroid so it doesn't just cool uncontrollably on the backside -- but that's what you'd essentially do to obtain free fuel for your asteroid melter.
[You have a stable society when some nut guns down a schoolyard and the law doesn't change.]
Unicron The Bringer Of Chaos and The Devourer of Worlds. Our orbit littered with the corpses of millions of comets, asteroids and an ufo that made a bad choice of camoflauge...
And stop blabbering about "being on phone", if you skimmed over it while yabbering with some other moron, read it again, really this time, and STOP WHINING.
Why do I have this ominous feeling of dread when I think of some overzealous people trying to prove they can do something as destructive as messing with an asteroid.
Partly because you're being stupid in this matter, partly because you didn't read the articles, and partly because the submitter made this stuff up.
It's also very small, and would burn up in atmosphere, hardly destructive even whole, much less in pieces. Probably great looking piece of fireworks, would anyone happen to see, though.
I am sorry, but I like that asteroid nice and FAR from us.
I am sorry to say, but the asteroid in question, as mentioned in TFA, just passed Earth _UNDER THE ORBIT OF SATELLITES_, if that's "nice and FAR", you've got some pretty weird ideas about the FAR part.
In addition, B612 foundation is not interested in bringing any asteroids to Earth orbit - that's one of things the submitter made up - but rather demonstrating that one can be moved at all. Also, when they actually will choose one, care will be taken to pick out a rock that is far enough that it has no change to end up in collision course after the slight orbit alterations.
Blowing things up has a habit of spreading pieces in a chaotic fashion
Again, if you'd read the TFA, you would know that nobody is intending to blow up anything. Blowing up something is not just dangerous, but extremely inefficient, hollywood might like it, but any real asteroid deflection will apply very slight trust over long periods of time using, for example, ion engines. In a specific direction, no pieces to worry about.
I hope there is a more practical application - like say if one day an asteroid is going to hit us they will use these techniques to divert Earth from mass devastation
If you discount submitters lies, that's what it is all about, also mentioned in TFA, practising and proving the technology required for declecting an actual impact on something harmless.