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100 Years of Einstein

spacerabbits writes "A century after Einstein's miracle year, most people still do not understand exactly what it was he did. The Economist tries to elucidate what AE did in a recent article."

378 comments

  1. Their you go, Mr. Einstein. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Your desk is all squared away. Yep, all squaaaaaaaaaaaared away.

    1. Re:Their you go, Mr. Einstein. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Mod missed the Far Side reference. Hang your head in shame.

    2. Re:Their you go, Mr. Einstein. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      If you don't get this, it's a reference to a Gary Larson "Far side" strip.

      Eintein is at a chalkboard with e=mc^4 and ^5, ^3 and someone is finishing cleaning his desk, saying "it's all squaaaaaared away"..get it?

  2. What he did in a recent article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    Oh so Einstein is writing articles from the grave? His technology really is sufficiently advanced!

    1. Re:What he did in a recent article... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "His technology really is sufficiently advanced!"

      If it seems indistinguishable from magic, then yes - to paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke.

  3. I know this isn't a book review, but... by The_Rippa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If you really want to get a handle on what Einstein did and what his work has influenced, I would recommend buying The Elegant Universe by Brian Green. Somehow it found it's way onto my Amazon wishlist a few years ago (I don't remember putting it there), and my mom bought it for me for xmas. I've read about half of it so far and it's amazing stuff. It's about the (super)string theory, which essentially ties together Einstein's theory of relativity and quantum physics. I can feel my brain get bigger as I read it.

    1. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by mOoZik · · Score: 5, Informative

      They also have the video programs on PBS, for free viewing. :)

    2. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Jim+Starx · · Score: 1

      Good book. If you like it get his next one, Fabric of the Cosmos. I thought it was much better then Elegent Universe, though they are both still superb books.

      --
      The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
    3. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Skynet · · Score: 1

      I agree, in fact I would almost recommend Fabric of the Cosmos before Elegant Universe. It seems to cover a wide range of subjects more loosely, while Elegant Universe dives deeper into the nuances of superstring theory.

      I also appreciated the first chapter of Fabric of the Cosmos, where Greene talks about the drive behind his life's work. It really spoke to me in a personal way.

      --
      Execute? [Y/N] _
    4. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by eobanb · · Score: 2, Informative

      I can highly recommend this book as well. By the way, it's actually Brian GREENE, not Green. But yes, definitely, definitely, check this book out. He mostly talks about string theory but there are also a lot of other ideas discussed, like hidden variable theory (particles which are virtually undetectable directly; the only way we know they're there is that the equations that accurately predict particle behaviour/properties require these variables) and all kinds of other weird things related to this (sparticles, etc). I like this book because it sets much of modern physics down in layman's terms, yet it's comprehensive and informative even to those already familiar with the basics.

      --

      Take off every sig. For great justice.

    5. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Haydn+Fenton · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this is the first and only book I've bought on the subject of astro-physics theories, before I knew anything about them at all, and it was amazing. Tought me a hell of a lot, well laid out with little subsections within bigger sections, and it tries to explain things in such a way that you can skip to a part that sounds the most interesting and understand it almost completely externally of any other stuff, although clearly that cannot be done all the time. Some parts are hellish hard to get your head around, but thats due to the way quantum physics works rather than how its written, most of the content is very helpful and explains things in many ways as to make it clear. Great book.

    6. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by jridley · · Score: 1

      Timothy Ferris is good in the cosmology realm as well, similar to Brian Greene in the theoretical physics arena.

    7. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > If you really want to get a handle on what Einstein did and what his work has influenced, I
      > would recommend buying The Elegant Universe by Brian Green. Somehow it found it's way onto my
      > Amazon wishlist a few years ago (I don't remember putting it there), and my mom bought it for me for
      > xmas. I've read about half of it so far and it's amazing stuff. It's about the (super)string theory,
      > which essentially ties together Einstein's theory of relativity and quantum physics. I can feel my
      > brain get bigger as I read it.

      And I would recommend that you also take what Green says about string theory with a grain of salt. While he's a good scientist, he like all string theorists, tend to paste over the cracks in string theory. There is no experimental evidence to support string theory, at the moment it just isn't science. He also tends to handwave away difficulties with multiple theories. He is clearly biased towards string theory, and at points I'd say unreasonably biased.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    8. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by ktulu1115 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have the book as well, excellent read. I first saw the NOVA special on PBS and watched it over and over and over again. Fascinating stuff.

      But yes, Einstein's later years were spend on trying to develop a GUT/TOE (Grand Unified Theory/Theory of Everything), basically a way to combine the smooth gentle macroscopic world of space-time in relativity and the extremely chaotic unpredictible microscopic view of quantum physics. String theory is the closest thing we have to accomplishing that goal, and with geniuses like Ed Witten working on it, I think we stand a good chance of actually discovering/creating such a theory given enough time.

      I digress, but I have to state... the PBS specials are very useful and well put together. Brian Greene does an excellent job hosting the show. I espcially like the part where they first mention Ed, one string theorist says something like "we all think we're pretty smart, and he [Ed Witten] is so much smarter." It's amazing how much raw intelligence you need to really comprehend the underlying mathematical principles behind string theory.

      --
      # fuser -v /dev/attention | grep work
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    9. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by albn · · Score: 5, Interesting

      His theories have been the cornerstone of modern Physics, but he is not the only one that has contributed greatly in this field.

      Some notables that come to mind are James Clerk Maxwell for his eletromegnetism and electricity, Tullio Levi Civita for his Absolute Differential Calculus, Wolfgang Pauli, Max Born, and many others.

      The universe is a very interesting place that still holds many secrets that we try to unlock with invariants, tensor fields on manifolds, experiments with atom smashers, detecting gravity waves, metrics, Jacobians, etc.... but the bottom line is, no matter what we discover or think is out there, there will always be more questions than answers.

      Thank you Albert, you have helped open the door to the long question you had with a unified field theory. As with Pauli say himself the solution to a unified field theory is akin to a Titian painting that is still a blank canvas.

      --
      Some call me Howie Feltersnatch
    10. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wake me up when they've got some data. All the brains in the world won't save a theory that has no supporting evidence.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    11. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by ktulu1115 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, string theory requires some assumptions to be made for their models to work. However, with these assumptions they do a remarkable job of representing the world of quantum physics and relativity. Nothing else we have even comes close.

      And you also have to keep in mind that these theories are extremely oversimplified. We do not possess the power or knowledge to understand the equations in their full form. This was very similar to Einstein's field equations when he first discovered them; I have a feeling in time we will start to grasp the ideas better. Witten himeself claimed that some cynics dubbed his new M-theory for "murky theory" since our understanding of it is so primitive.

      --
      # fuser -v /dev/attention | grep work
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    12. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by ktulu1115 · · Score: 1

      Well it's just a wee-bit difficult to try and prove/disprove in the laboratory a theory that works on the scale of billions and billions of times smaller then the known world of quantum mechanics. Until we can find some way to find traces of strings, it's just theoritical physics and not experimental.

      One hope is that if strings exist, they would have left impressions behind from the big bang, similiar to the microwave background radiation. If we can find such evidence it would strongly support the theory.

      --
      # fuser -v /dev/attention | grep work
      #
    13. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by NitsujTPU · · Score: 1

      Somehow it found it's way onto my Amazon wishlist a few years ago (I don't remember putting it there)

      Everyone put it on their wishlist after /. linked to the PBS documentary, which was hands down one of the most entertaining and informative that I ever watched.

    14. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 0, Troll

      So, string theory requires assumptions. How is that any different from saying, well it works if you make shit up to make it work?

      See, here professor, yea, I can't make this work on my final, unless we both make some assumptions, then it works.

    15. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by MightyMartian · · Score: 1, Redundant

      One doesn't have to be a genius to realize that any theory that does not yet have a way of testing predictions, or any evidence to support it, is not scientific.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    16. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Jim+Starx · · Score: 1

      They actually don't do a remarkable job. Only the framework of string theory has been laid down. The theory can't make any predictions yet. Right now they've basically been able to show that with more work this theory has the potential to be the TOE, but it's not there yet. It's not a failing though. The theory is really in it's infantcy as theories go. It could turn out to be the answer, or it could end up failing. But there's a lot of work to be done before anyone will know for sure.

      --
      The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
    17. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      String theory isn't even a proper scientific theory at the moment, as it makes virtually no testable predictions. It has the aura of sexiness about it, though, which has attracted a lot of bright physicists, but it's got a gaping hole.

      It isn't even the only competitor, either, though loop quantum gravity also suffers similar flaws of a lack of supporting evidence, but at least string theorists like Green should be a bit more open in admitting the flaws in their pet theory and in admitting that there are other potential answers.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    18. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Ra5pu7in · · Score: 1

      Another really great read on Einstein's life and work is "Einstein's Cosmos: How Albert Einstein's Vision Transformed Our Understanding of Space and Time (Great Discoveries)"
      by Michio Kaku. My brother picked that up and I read it after he finished. It has a lot of information similar to the article, but much more detailed.

      --
      I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
    19. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by cavemanf16 · · Score: 1

      I echo your endorsement of Brian Green's "Elegant Universe." I took me several years of periodic interest in physics to make it all the way through the book (which I recently finished about 8 months ago), but by the end I was thoroughly engrossed in the work he and his colleagues have done in the realm of theoretical physics, as well as the potential theoretical physics still has to reveal more amazing stuff to humanity. Even if you have only a passing hobbyist interest in physics and the universe, I think you'll really eat this book up. It has been by far one of the easiest to read yet full of knowledge science related book that I've ever read. The writing style is quite similar to The Economist article linked from above.

      As a side note, I was once reading that book in an airport a couple years ago while waiting for my flight to take me home from a business trip. Some guy stopped and asked me what I thought of the book. At that time I wasn't halfway through but whole-heartedly recommended it to him. Kind of an odd encounter with a fellow businessman (at least he looked like a businessman type) who was also interested in physics. Go figure.

    20. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Lord+Crc · · Score: 1

      It has the aura of sexiness about it, though, which has attracted a lot of bright physicists, but it's got a gaping hole.

      Certain other circles I know about, this would be considered _very_ hot indeed.

    21. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Methuseus · · Score: 1

      I think that's why it's called string theory instead of string fact.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
    22. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Curtman · · Score: 1

      Dr. Richard Feynman is an excellent physics lecturer, I'd recommend anyone who is interested in these topics check him out. There's tonnes of audio on ed2k as well.

    23. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      > I think that's why it's called string theory instead of string fact.

      Spoken like a creationist talking about evolution. Science has a very different meaning of the word "theory" than than laypeople, who tend to conflate the term with "hypothesis", "idea", or just "wild guess". Good theories are rigorous and predictive. Bad theories are footnotes.

    24. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      The theory can't make any predictions yet. Right now they've basically been able to show that with more work this theory has the potential to be the TOE, but it's not there yet. It's not a failing though.

      I know this is going to be a controversial opinion, but I feel that String Theory isn't even a possible candidate for the TOE. It is too complex, and contains too many assumptions. Any model of the fundamental entities in the universe which includes properties such as length, ends, vibration and tension can hardly be a true representation of the building blocks of matter.

      I'm expressing this more from a philosopher's point of view than an expert in maths or particle physics, and remain open to being convinced otherwise!

    25. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Vicsun · · Score: 1

      Nice! Thank you very much, sir.

    26. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by midav · · Score: 3, Funny
      AFAIK, any theory requires assumptions. Even in math, where they also called axioms.

      For example, in Standard Model you have to make up 19 different shits in your terminology (particle masses and various physical constants) to make it working. String theory requires only one make up shit parameter to make it working (string tension, IIRC.)

    27. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by ViolentGreen · · Score: 1

      I watched it several nights ago. I felt it was well done. It gave me a grasp of the concept of string theory without going into details and calculations that would be meaningless to me. If you have no more physics background than a semester or two in college this might be a good program for you. Any more and you might be bored.

      --
      Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
    28. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by ViolentGreen · · Score: 1

      Good theories are rigorous and predictive.

      Perhaps but it is still not testible at the moment (and neither is general evolution because of the time scales involced.) There were scientists on the above mentioned PBS program that, while being supporters of string theory, said that it was dangerously close to philosophy as opposed to science.

      --
      Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
    29. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That url returns a 404 for me. Does it work for anyone else?

    30. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by torako · · Score: 1

      Levi Civita, best known among physicists because of his 3rd order totally antisymmetric tensor that has many elegant uses in theoretical physics.

    31. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by midav · · Score: 1
      Any model of the fundamental entities in the universe which includes properties such as length, ends, vibration and tension can hardly be a true representation of the building blocks of matter.

      This is a somewhat strange position (even for a philosopher,) since the whole philosophy of physics is, that it is infinities that are not natural. That is the problem with infinitely small electron, infinitely small distances etc. Which means that even fundamental building blocks of Nature must have property as finite spacial extent, energy density or information content.

    32. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Neil+Rubin · · Score: 2, Informative
      String theory requires only one make up shit parameter to make it working (string tension, IIRC.)
      You only need one parameter (the string tension), but that's just because the low energy behavior of the theory, i.e., what we see in particle accelerators and the like, is determined by how the six/seven extra dimensions of spacetime are "compactified." At the present state of understanding in string theory, the way of compactifying those extra dimensions is entirely arbitrary.

      As far as we know, to replace the standard model with string theory is just to replace 19 arbitrary parameters with an arbitrary compactification, itself perhaps requiring more than 19 parameters to describe.

    33. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is a somewhat strange position (even for a philosopher,) since the whole philosophy of physics is, that it is infinities that are not natural. That is the problem with infinitely small electron, infinitely small distances etc. Which means that even fundamental building blocks of Nature must have property as finite spacial extent, energy density or information content.

      The infinities are nothing to do with nature - they are to do with the mathematics that are used to model nature. They result from the way we model forces.

      The problem with String theory is that it uses the term 'fundamental' for entities which are composite: they have end parts and non-end parts, so are not, by definition, fundamental. They also vibrate, so (at least in some sense) have parts which move relative to other parts. This seems highly paradoxical and recursive - after all, particle physics is supposed to explain features such as vibration, extension and tension in macroscopic objects. A theory which requires these features would seem to require a deeper level of explanation.

      I have no idea what a fundamental theory should look like. Perhaps something like Mark Hadley's ideas of building all particles out of spacetime is simple enough.

    34. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spoken like someone who thinks that science is just a tool to piss off creationists with.

    35. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Witten's work has led to some rather significant advances in mathematics. In my opinion, that's a good enough reason to pay attention to him now. Even if string theory is bunk. there are still some good things that are falling out of the work on it.

    36. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Rostin · · Score: 1

      I've only read one of Green's books (Elegant Universe), and it may very well be the case that he papers over the cracks in string theory. I'm certainly in no position to know. :) But to be fair, he does mention more than once that it hasn't been experimentally verified. IIRC, he also talks a bit about why it's likely that it will never be experimentally verified.

    37. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by |/|/||| · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yeah, unlike all of the actual facts that we have, like...

      Oh yeah, all we have are theories.

      --
      [javac] 100 errors
    38. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by lawpoop · · Score: 2, Insightful
      As I was taught by my high school Christan Creationist science/astronomy teacher (who was a great science teacher, not a whacko in any respect) a hypothesis must do two things in order to be considered a theory: 1. explain the past and 2. make predictions.

      As I understand, no one has though up any predictions based on string 'theory'. Since we have no predictions, we have no experiments. If we have no experiments, we have no falsification. If we have no falsification, we do not have science.

      As it stands, string theory holds no more scientific weight than the idea that we live in the matrix, or that reality is the dream of Indra. All of these can reasonably explain the past. However, once we have a prediction that can potientially be discredited through an experiment, then we have science. Currently , string theory, like the Matrix or Indra's dream, make no falsifiable prediction.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    39. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by ctczar · · Score: 0

      Has anyone else experienced a browser crash when trying to view the quicktime files listed on PBS? I've tried both Firefox 1.0 and IE 6, they both crashed.

    40. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Josh+Booth · · Score: 1

      It does make predictions, such as sparticles, or super-symmetric particles, but are currently out of our experimental reach. The energies required are very very high and we may not be able to prove them for much time. Other properties only are detectable if we approach the energy to probe to the Planck length, which we probably won't be able to do for centuries. However, nobody has yet proved it wrong in more normal situations.

    41. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Methuseus · · Score: 1

      Well, I meant it as more of a joke. The guy I replied to seemed to think everyone here believes string theory to be a proven hypothesis. Most of the physical theories we have cannot be proven with our current level of technology.

      I don't have a problem with this as unproven theories are great and sometimes more interesting than proven theories.

      --
      Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity, though I'm not yet sure about the universe. - A Einstein
    42. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by midav · · Score: 1
      The infinities are nothing to do with nature - they are to do with the mathematics that are used to model nature. They result from the way we model forces

      We are agree here. Seems like infinities are not part of the nature. And if we agree that we can build the mathematical model of the nature, this model shall not contain (at least not cancelled out) infinities, which necessarily introduces non-infinitely small regions of space-time continuum. So it does not make sense to ask about structure or processes inside such regions. You, probably, feel it too, that is why you have put (at least in some sence) qualification to term 'vibration'. My take on it that they vibrate in the same sence as Standard Model particles spin.

      About our theory of everyhing (TOE) choices. You see, at the end we do have different particles, so it does not look like we have too many choices how to describe them, it is either fundamentally different entities and we have to explain how they came into being, or, it is the same fundamental entity existing in different states. Latter case seems to be preferrable, I guess, for aesthetical and philosophical reasons.

      As I understand Mark Hadley's ideas, he tries to describe particles as distortions of the space-time so the 'moving parts' are also in there in which case it might be more or less equivalent to string theory proposal that space-time consists of strings.

      If you asked me what TOE may look like, I would go with a like of the holographic principle, where notions of 3+1 space-time continuum, matter, energy and so on are 'generated' as the natural result of our attempt to acquire information about our surroundings, i.e. it is not that nature does, indeed, work this way, but rather is our (observer's) way to cognize the information coherently.

    43. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      String theory makes predictions that can potentially be discredited through an experiment. The problem is, the experiments that are capable of discrediting it are far beyond our technological capacity.

    44. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've made up your own definition of fundamental. Strings are fundamental in string theory. What does the fact that they have ends have to do with anything? The endpoints carry Chan-Paton charges, making the string charged, but there's no way to separate an endpoint of a string from a string itself; it's part of the string, forming one whole and indivisible body, a "string-with-decorated-ends". The material of the string isn't any different at the ends than the middle.

      And there is nothing paradoxical nor recursive about vibrating strings. Sure, the tension and such of macroscopic bodies can be described in terms of microscopic physics, but that doesn't mean that fundamental entities can't have a tension. That's like claiming that it's paradoxical and recursive for elementary particles to have energy or mass, just because the energy and mass of macroscopic bodies are explained in terms of elementary particle. There's nothing wrong with fundamental entities having physical properties like composite entities do!

    45. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, M-theory has zero free parameters. The string tension of 10D string theory is derived from the compactification size of the 11th dimension in M-theory. But, as another poster said, we have no way of solving the dynamics of M- (or string-) theory to determine the compactification, producing effectively a vast number of tunable free parameters. (Read about the recent controversy about the anthropic landscape of string moduli space.. e.g. Susskind and Banks.)

    46. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You haven nothing but philosophical prejudice to back up your statements. Why do you think you can dictate to nature how complex it must be, or what its fundamental objects ought to be? How many assumptions should a TOE have, anyway? How did you arrive at that number? Remember that the universe itself is complex and requires a certain number of assumptions to start with. And string theory doesn't make that many assumptions: one-dimensional entities, Lorentz invariance, and unitarity alone almost entirely determine the theory. What's so darn complicated about "length" or "tension", anyway?

    47. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by ahdeoz · · Score: 1

      Okay, what does string theory explain? What does it predict? Thank you very much.

    48. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      The material of the string isn't any different at the ends than the middle.

      The use of the word 'material' implies that strings have some sort of 'substance', and hence are composite. Sorry if this sounds pendantic.

      There's nothing wrong with fundamental entities having physical properties like composite entities do!

      I agree, but that is not what I am saying. The problem as I see it is that these so-called fundamental entities have physical properties which change along one or more dimensions. They have extension, for example, so there must be some sort of 'material' that links one part of a string to another. This may not be the case in the mathematical models which describe strings, but we are assuming here that strings are real entities, not just a tool for computing.

      If you say that there is nothing paradoxical about using 'vibrating strings' to explain the properties of macroscopic things such as vibrating strings, I'm afraid I can only disagree. Look at it this way - how complex would 'fundamental' enties need to be for you to consider them non-fundamental?

    49. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      You haven nothing but philosophical prejudice to back up your statements.

      You are correct.

      Remember that the universe itself is complex and requires a certain number of assumptions to start with.

      That is not, as I recall, why string theory was devised. Simplifying hugely, it was because doing some math for a model of the universe which had point-like particles did not work, so math was tried on non-point-like entities. There was no justification about anything being real, or about the assumptions of complexity - just a way to make math possible. Finding a model that seems to work mathematically and then saying that this model IS how the universe actually works, without a detail series of tests of the assumptions, is very poor science.

      What's so darn complicated about "length" or "tension", anyway?

      If they aren't complicated. why bother with particle physics at all? Why not just say that macroscopic objects have 'fundamental' properties?

      'length' and 'tension' are complicated because, at least in general use they imply a relationship between parts. If this is not their use here, are there better words?

    50. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      So it does not make sense to ask about structure or processes inside such regions.

      As you probably can guess, I have trouble when someone says 'it does not make sense to ask'. I tend to feel that such prohibitions are a sign that we don't know enough about the situation.

      You, probably, feel it too, that is why you have put (at least in some sence) qualification to term 'vibration'. My take on it that they vibrate in the same sence as Standard Model particles spin.

      Well yes, because being the pedant I am I would be a lot happier if physicists stopped using terms (like 'spin') which give (I believe) a false impression of the underlying reality. If strings 'vibrate' rather than really vibrate, why use the word and confuse poor humble novice physicists like me?

      As I understand Mark Hadley's ideas, he tries to describe particles as distortions of the space-time so the 'moving parts' are also in there in which case it might be more or less equivalent to string theory proposal that space-time consists of strings.

      Yes, but in this model, the particles aren't really fundamental. They are distortions in something more fundamental (space-time). In this circumstance, I feel it makes perfect sense to talk about 'parts', unlike in String Theory.

      If you asked me what TOE may look like, I would go with a like of the holographic principle, where notions of 3+1 space-time continuum, matter, energy and so on are 'generated' as the natural result of our attempt to acquire information about our surroundings, i.e. it is not that nature does, indeed, work this way, but rather is our (observer's) way to cognize the information coherently.

      I have been hearing a lot about the holographic principle recently, but will need to do a lot more reading before I understand it!

    51. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      As it stands, string theory holds no more scientific weight than the idea that we live in the matrix, or that reality is the dream of Indra.

      Or... Christan Creationism.

    52. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      and neither is general evolution because of the time scales involced.

      Not true. There have been examples of observed evolution in recent decades, and also evolution predicts what is likely to be found in future fossil discoveries: for example, the discovery of a 400 million year old mammalian fossil would certainly disprove evolution.

    53. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      It does make predictions, such as sparticles, or super-symmetric particles, but are currently out of our experimental reach. The energies required are very very high and we may not be able to prove them for much time.

      The problem is that other theories make the same predictions, and even with the String theories there are alternative formulations that cannot be distinguished.

    54. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The use of the word 'material' implies that strings have some sort of 'substance', and hence are composite.


      The "substance" strings are made of has no intrinsic property other than tension. (All other physical properties of the string are derived from the tension and the geometry of the string, except for the Chan-Paton charges on hte ends.) It's a uniform, undifferentiated material. It cannot be broken up into more fundamental entities, unless you count breaking a string into two or more identical strings.


      The problem as I see it is that these so-called fundamental entities have physical properties which change along one or more dimensions.


      So anything that's not zero-dimensional cannot be fundamental? That's silly, and moreover, has nothing to do with how physics uses the term "fundamental" -- and, moreover, is not some physical law of nature. There isn't some law that says that strings can't be the simplest things there are.


      They have extension, for example, so there must be some sort of 'material' that links one part of a string to another.


      The "material" that links one part of a string to another is the string. But the material is not made up of any parts. It is a continuum, of constant uniform density, with no special physical properties that can vary.


      If you say that there is nothing paradoxical about using 'vibrating strings' to explain the properties of macroscopic things such as vibrating strings, I'm afraid I can only disagree


      But what is the paradox? A macroscopic thing such a vibrating string is quite different from a string theory string. A macroscopic string is not truly one-dimensional, it is made up of all kinds of particles, has inhomogeneities, detailed internal structure, etc. A string theory string does not. It is no more paradoxical to describe a macroscopic string with fundamental strings than it is to describe an elephant with fundamental strings.

      Or, for that matter, no more paradoxical than to describe a macroscopic particle with fundamental particles, as we do today. Macroscopic particles are again quite different from elementary particles. Just because we use the word "particle" to describe both, doesn't mean that they're the same thing. And it certainly doesn't mean that there is some infinite recursion going on, where elementary particles need to be explained in terms of still more elementary particles, just because macroscopic "particles" are explained in terms of elementary particles.


      how complex would 'fundamental' enties need to be for you to consider them non-fundamental?


      They could be as complex as they want. Complexity has nothing to do with "fundamental". They just don't have to be made up of simpler entitities that are different from the "fundamental" entities. That's what "fundamental" means. Strings aren't made up of something smaller that differs from a string itself; if you try to cut a string into pieces, you just get strings back. Smaller strings, but the same entity nonetheless. If you start cutting up and apple, you don't get a bunch of apples; you get plant tissues, cells, molecules, atoms, electrons, nuclei, protons, quarks, etc.
    55. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is not, as I recall, why string theory was devised. Simplifying hugely, it was because doing some math for a model of the universe which had point-like particles did not work, so math was tried on non-point-like entities.


      No. Veneziano wrote down a perturbation series for a scattering amplitude that people thought might explain the strong nuclear force. It eventually didn't. Later, people realized that this amplitude described the motion of one-dimensional entities. After that, the theory was discarded, because quantum chromodynamics did a better job of explaining the strong force, and the new theory had other problems, such as predicting unphysical particles (such as those with spin 2), and didn't appear to be consistent in four dimensions. Only after that did people think that it could be applied to a theory of everything (identifying the spin-2 particle with the graviton), and fixed up like older unified theories (Kaluza-Klein theory) by compactifying the extra dimensions.


      Finding a model that seems to work mathematically and then saying that this model IS how the universe actually works, without a detail series of tests of the assumptions, is very poor science.


      Oh give me a break. Who in string theory goes around claiming that string theory is some proven fact?


      Why not just say that macroscopic objects have 'fundamental' properties?


      You can. People did! Macroscopic objects used to be fundamental entities. At least, until they realized that those properties could be explained in terms of more fundamental entities. So what? In any theory, you always have to postulate some fundamental entity, which has some properties. It doesn't matter how simple or complicated that object is, or what those properties are, as long as the theory works. If later experiments show that your fundamental entity isn't fundamental, you have to revise your theory. But you cannot just philosophically declare that some properties are "unfit" for a fundamental entity, if those properties are at least hypothetically capable of leading to a theory that does describe our universe. Once again, nature doesn't care about your philosophical prejudices.


      'length' and 'tension' are complicated because, at least in general use they imply a relationship between parts.


      Strings, being extended bodies, have different points. Why does this eliminate strings from contention as fundamental entities? It's not like there's an electron sitting at one point on a string, and another electron sitting at another, or that the string varies in tension or other physical properties from point to point, or that you can find any physical difference between points on the string. There is no deeper structure in a string.

      What exactly is your semantic problem here? If you don't want to call "strings" fundamental because they're made of a "material", then why don't you call "string material" fundamental?? Do you think that string theory has no fundamental entities? Every theory has fundamental entities, ones in which everything else in the theory is described. For string theory, that's strings, whether you want to call them "strings" or "string material shaped into strings". That you don't happen to like their properties doesn't change that fact.
    56. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      String theories make predictions that are unique to string theory. Unfortunately, you have to probe the string scale to find them for sure. There are ways in which stringy behavior can show up at lower energies, but that depends on the details. Most string solutions don't exhibit stringy behavior at energies we can currently reach.

    57. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      It's a uniform, undifferentiated material.

      And this material is...? (Or rather isn't, as if strings are truly one-dimensional there can be no material).

      It cannot be broken up into more fundamental entities, unless you count breaking a string into two or more identical strings.

      Then it can be broken up.

      It is no more paradoxical to describe a macroscopic string with fundamental strings than it is to describe an elephant with fundamental strings.

      Its paradoxical to describe tension (say the tension in a stretched string) in terms of tension in fundamental particles.

      A macroscopic string is not truly one-dimensional, it is made up of all kinds of particles, has inhomogeneities, detailed internal structure, etc. A string theory string does not.

      If a string theory string is purely one-dimensional then it is nothing more than a mathematical construct, and can have no real existence.

      They could be as complex as they want. Complexity has nothing to do with "fundamental". They just don't have to be made up of simpler entitities that are different from the "fundamental" entities.

      This kind of argument reminds me of those put forward by biologists centuries ago. What were cells made of? Nothing but 'protoplasm', a fundamental material that was intrinsically 'alive'. No further explanation was needed.

    58. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by lawpoop · · Score: 1

      The point that my science teacher made is that for him, Christianity was a faith, not a science. There's more to life than knowing things.

      --
      Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
      -- Pablo Picasso
    59. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      No. Veneziano wrote down a perturbation series for a scattering amplitude that people thought might explain the strong nuclear force.

      Yes. I was incorrect.

      Strings, being extended bodies, have different points... There is no deeper structure in a string.

      This is a contradiction. Bodies which have different points have deeper structure.

      or that you can find any physical difference between points on the string.

      Of course there is a physical difference between points on the string. If the string is extended, then different points have different physical locations. If a string is vibrating (in any real sense) then different points will have different velocities. (Unless the 'vibration' is one of those mis-uses of commonly used words to describe a non-obvious quantum property).

      Oh give me a break. Who in string theory goes around claiming that string theory is some proven fact?

      No-one is saying it is fact (that I know of), but plenty are saying its a reasonable model of reality.

      If you don't want to call "strings" fundamental because they're made of a "material", then why don't you call "string material" fundamental??

      Because a material can't be fundamental. Well, I guess it can be if you want simply give up any attempt to understand things further. But, anyone presented with a description of something that is complex or consists of some material is entitled to ask 'well, what is THAT made of', and is also entitled to be critical if the response is 'sorry - we give up there, your question is meaningless'.

      Every theory has fundamental entities, ones in which everything else in the theory is described.

      Yes, but many of them don't included extended entities made of some unexplainable 'material'.

    60. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bodies which have different points have deeper structure.

      You must be using some weird definition of the term "structure". Now are you going to tell me that the electromagnetic field in Maxwellian electrodynamics isn't the fundamental entity in that theory, because the field has different values at each point in space? Well, maybe you will, but that has nothing to do with whether Maxwell's theory is a complete theory of electromagnetism, or string theory is a complete theory of all physics.

      but plenty are saying [string theory is] a reasonable model of reality.

      Yeah, so? You can find string solutions that reproduce the Standard Model (or at least very close to it; I'm not sure what the latest on string phenomenology is). That means that it's capable of agreeing with all known experiments, and it is also an internally logically consistent theory, the two requirements of a reasonable model of reality.

      Because a material can't be fundamental.
      Of course it can. There's no law of physics that says otherwise.
      But, anyone presented with a description of something that is complex or consists of some material is entitled to ask 'well, what is THAT made of', and is also entitled to be critical if the response is 'sorry - we give up there, your question is meaningless'.
      So what? Yes, you can always ask that question. But every theory will always have some fundamental entity -- be it strings, particles, or something else -- that is itself not made up of anything simpler.

      One can say "well, an electron isn't made up of anything else" in quantum field theory, or "a string isn't made up of anything else" in string theory, and you are entitled to be critical of that, as you are entitled to be critical of any physical theory.

    61. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      (continued)

      However, that doesn't change the fact that no matter what theory you're using, if you ask what the fundamental entities of that theory are made up of, the answer is always going to be "the theory gives up there" -- because that's the definition of a fundamental entity.
      In short, there's no way to ever conclusively answer the question "well, what is THAT made of" in ANY theory, string theory, the Standard Model, classical physics, or anything else. We can -- and should -- keep looking for ever more fundamental theories, but that doesn't mean there are any. It could be that particles are it. Or strings are it. Or topological defects in spacetime are it. Whatever. We will never know whether any given theory's fundamental entities are truly fundamental; we can at best show that they're not by finding something deeper, but we can never know whether there must be something deeper.

      Yes, but many of them don't included extended entities made of some unexplainable 'material'.

      Of course they do. Particle physics is no different, except the particles are zero-dimensional. You seem inexplicably hung up on extended bodies. Strings are no more and no less "made of a material" than are particles.

      Sorry, but once again, the laws of physics don't care about what you insist can or cannot be "fundamental". That's up to experiment to decide. No law of logic or physics forbids strings from being fundamental.
    62. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      And this material is...? (Or rather isn't, as if strings are truly one-dimensional there can be no material).

      Now you're contradicting yourself. First you said that strings had to be made of some substance, because they're one dimensional, now you're saying that one-dimensional objects can't be made of a material. This is a pointless conversation. It has nothing to do with physics, only with what words you choose to describe the physics.
      Then it can be broken up.

      Fine, if you want to call cutting a string into two strings breaking it up, whatever. But what you get in the end is STRINGS. It's not like where you break up an atomic nucleus and you get something different than a nucleus out (protons and neutrons). The string is the most fundamental thing you can ever have, no matter how much cutting you do.
      Its paradoxical to describe tension (say the tension in a stretched string) in terms of tension in fundamental particles.

      Pure nonsense. Like I said earlier, that's like claiming that it's paradoxical to explain the mass of (say) an apple in terms of the the masses of its constituent particles. The mass of a particle is a fundamental concept, but you can also use it to describe composite systems. The same is true of tension.
      If a string theory string is purely one-dimensional then it is nothing more than a mathematical construct, and can have no real existence.

      Uh, no, there is no law of physics that purely one-dimensional objects cannot exist, any more than there's a law of physics that says that zero-dimensional point particles can't exist.
      This kind of argument reminds me of those put forward by biologists centuries ago. What were cells made of? Nothing but 'protoplasm', a fundamental material that was intrinsically 'alive'. No further explanation was needed.

      Yes, and that kind of argument is FINE in science. You can't claim that something more fundamental than protoplasm exists if you don't have any evidence for it! EVERY theory ALWAYS postulates that some fundamental thing exists. Of course, you always keep looking for deeper structure, but that doesn't mean you're going to find any! It's logically possible that protoplasm really was a fundamental substance. That didn't turn out to be the case, but it could have happened. You can never know whether something you think is fundamental is really fundamental. For that matter, you can never know whether a scientific theory is really true. Theories can be disproven, but never proven -- you can only amass more and more supporting evidence in their favor, without knowing whether tomorrow's experiment will falsify the whole thing. That's life in science. What's your point?
    63. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      Of course they do. Particle physics is no different, except the particles are zero-dimensional.You seem inexplicably hung up on extended bodies. Strings are no more and no less "made of a material" than are particles.

      This is what puzzles me. Why is this 'inexplicably hung up'? It seems to be to be nothing more than asking a reasonable question.

      Look. Its very simple. If something is made of some material then it is possible to conceive of that material being divided or composite. If it is possible to conceive of this, then its up to the proposers of a theory to justify why the material is not composite.

      Also, particles (assuming they are zero dimensional) don't have to be made of anything. That is the nature of a non-extended body.

      That's up to experiment to decide. No law of logic or physics forbids strings from being fundamental.

      Well, if we can't agree that non-zero size implies compositeness... I would definitely say that a 'law of logic' implies this.

    64. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by Decaff · · Score: 1

      Now you're contradicting yourself. First you said that strings had to be made of some substance, because they're one dimensional, now you're saying that one-dimensional objects can't be made of a material.

      I am just illustrating the logical gibberish of string theory. I am not the one talking about one-dimensional objects being made of material.

      Uh, no, there is no law of physics that purely one-dimensional objects cannot exist, any more than there's a law of physics that says that zero-dimensional point particles can't exist.

      Yes, actually, there is. It's called 'math'.

      Here I have an object. How do I know I have an object? because I can interact with it. How do I interact with it? because it has non-zero has some substance. What do I mean by 'some'? It has volume. What is volume? A multiplication of dimensions. Length x width x height. But this is a string, so width = 0 and height = 0. So what is the volume? zero. So there is nothing there.

      A purely one-dimensional feature can be an edge in something else, or an intersection, but it can't exist independently.

      This is a pointless conversation. It has nothing to do with physics,

      Of course it's to do with physics!

      What's your point?

      That some physicists need more training in philosophy. What happens is that some really neat math comes along and looks so wonderful that few of them stand back and look at the whether the model makes sense as reality and not just a model.

    65. Re:I know this isn't a book review, but... by |/|/||| · · Score: 1
      Good point. String theory may be an interesting possibility, but we have to keep in mind that it's a long way from being experimentally testable.

      --
      [javac] 100 errors
  4. Einstein has one thing to say... by mOoZik · · Score: 4, Funny
    1. Re:Einstein has one thing to say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Dear /.,

      I am so sorry for my stupid comment. I fucked up, and owe you all a heartfelt apology.

      As you can see, I put no thought whatsoever into the above post.

      Please forgive me.

      Sincerely,

      -mOoZik

    2. Re:Einstein has one thing to say... by adeydas · · Score: 1

      That's one picture that has made rounds everywhere. Do you know when Einstein did it? The story follows that Einstein had a very negetive attitude towards medical science. During the last few years of his life, he was treated with a lung disease. When asked to go for a cure, he said something famous (which I can't recall right now) and stuck out his tongue.

    3. Re:Einstein has one thing to say... by kclittle · · Score: 1
      "During the last few years of his life, he was treated with a lung disease."

      You mean, someone wanted to do something really nice for him, so they gave him lung disease? "Thank you so much for all you contributions to Science, Dr. Einstein -- here, have some tuberculosis."

      --
      Generally, bash is superior to python in those environments where python is not installed.
  5. Ah yes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    His semenal influence in modern lighting: the filament light-bulb.

    1. Re:Ah yes... by Fizzog · · Score: 1

      He did *what* to light bulbs?

      Ewwwww!!

    2. Re:Ah yes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was Thomas Edison.

    3. Re:Ah yes... by shokk · · Score: 1

      I've never actually tasted a lightbulb before, but now I know they taste like ment! Thank you, Anonymous Coward!

      --
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart, he dreams himself your master."
    4. Re:Ah yes... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was Edison dumbass. Edison invented a whole bunch of things, the electric lightbulb, electric motor, and electric chair. Einstein was the guy who formulated some of the major theories of today, such as evolution.

    5. Re:Ah yes... by tarquin_fim_bim · · Score: 1, Funny

      such as evolution

      No, you're mistaken that was Benjamin Franklin.

  6. Relativity In Words of Four Letters or Less by The_Rippa · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity

    In Words of Four Letters or Less

    [ 0 ]

    So, have a seat. Put your feet up. This may take some time. Can I get you some tea? Earl Grey? You got it.

    Okay. How do I want to do this? He did so much. It's hard to just dive in. You know? You pick a spot to go from, but soon you have to back up and and go over this or that item, and you get done with that only to see that you have to back up some more. So if you feel like I'm off to the side of the tale half the time, well, this is why. Just bear with me, and we'll get to the end in good time. Okay?

    Okay. Let's see....

    [ I ]

    Say you woke up one day and your bed was gone. Your room, too. Gone. It's all gone. You wake up in an inky void. Not even a star. Okay, yes, it's a dumb idea, but just go with it. Now say you want to know if you move or not. Are you held fast in one spot? Or do you, say, list off to the left some? What I want to ask you is: Can you find out? Hell no. You can see that, sure. You don't need me to tell you. To move, you have to move to or away from ... well, from what? You'd have to say that you don't even get to use a word like "move" when you are the only body in that void. Sure. Okay.

    Now, let's add the bed back. Your bed is with you in the void. But not for long -- it goes away from you. You don't have any way to get it back, so you just let it go. But so now we have a body in the void with you. So does the bed move, or do you move? Or both? Well, you can see as well as I that it can go any way you like. Flip a coin. Who's to say? It's best to just say that you move away from the bed, and that the bed goes away from you. No one can say who's held fast and who isn't.

    Now, if I took the bed back but gave you the sun -- just you and the sun in the void, now -- I'll bet you'd say that the sun is so big, next to you, that odds are you move and not the sun. It's easy to move a body like ours, and not so easy to kick a sun to and fro. But that isn't the way to see it. Just like with the bed, no one can say who's held fast.

    In a word, you can't find any one true "at rest". Izzy was the one who told us that. Izzy said that you can't tell if you move or are at rest at any time. You can say that you go and all else is at rest, or you can say that you are at rest and all else goes. It all adds up the same both ways. So we all knew that much from way back when.

    Aha, but now wait! The sun puts off rays! So: why not look at how fast the rays go past you? From that you'd see how fast you move, yes? For you see, rays move just the same if what puts them off is held fast or not. (Make a note of that, now.) Izzy had no way to know that, back then, but it's true. Rays all move the same. We call how fast that is: c. So, you can see how fast the rays go by you, and how far off that is from c will tell you how fast you move! Hell, you don't even need the sun for that. You can just have a lamp with you -- the one by your bed that you use to read by. You can have that lamp in your hand, and see how fast the rays go by you when you turn it on. The lamp will move with you, but the rays will move at c. You will see the rays move a bit more or less than c, and that will be how fast you move. An open-and-shut case, yes?

    Well, and so we went to test this idea out. Hey, you don't need to be in a void to do this test. We move all the time, even as we sit here. We spin, in fact. So they shot some rays off and took note of how fast they went east, and how fast they went west, and so on. Well, what do you know? The rays went just as fast both ways. All ways, in fact. They all went at c, just the same. Not an iota more or less.

    To say that we were less than glad to find that out is to be kind. It blew the mind, is more like it. "What is up with that?" we said. And here is when old Al came in.

    [ II ]

    Old Al, he came out the blue and said, "Not only do rays move at c if what puts them out is held fast or not: they move at

    1. Re:Relativity In Words of Four Letters or Less by Manan+Shah · · Score: 1

      Very good explanation. Though I think the four letter limit was more of a hinderence than a help.

    2. Re:Relativity In Words of Four Letters or Less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      For a bunch of four-letter-words, "fuck" and "shit" are used very sparsely. Please revise. One has certain expectations, as I'm sure you understand.

    3. Re:Relativity In Words of Four Letters or Less by sploxx · · Score: 1

      Very good!

      This is presumably what every physics student has in mind as the visualisation of SR/GR (as least I have...).
      Now I'll show this to friends if they ask me about special/general relativity. I couldn't have said it better!

    4. Re:Relativity In Words of Four Letters or Less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hail The Rippa, ye saviour of the dumb!

    5. Re:Relativity In Words of Four Letters or Less by dustinbarbour · · Score: 1

      I didn't have that problem. I was able to read it just fine. As for your eyes hurting.. adjust the refresh rate on your CRT!

    6. Re:Relativity In Words of Four Letters or Less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even in four letter or less words, the concepts still bend my brain. It's like the whole idea has some huge mass behind it.

      Wait.... God? Is that you?

    7. Re:Relativity In Words of Four Letters or Less by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have read quite an amount about Einsteins work and theories and have to say that this is one of the most succesfull simlifications of the ideas behind the equations, thanks, will use it on friends :)

    8. Re:Relativity In Words of Four Letters or Less by bluesnowmonkey · · Score: 1

      Tycho has affected an entire subculture's sense of humor and manner of speaking.

  7. Interesting how 100 years later... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We find ourselves once again questioning the theories he revised.

    Crazy year for science.

  8. Speaking of people understanding by bradleyland · · Score: 5, Funny

    I asked 7 people in my office what elucidate meant. Only one person knew, some shrugged, and one asked me if that was really a word *sigh*

    1. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Feyr · · Score: 1

      ouch. you need better cow-workers

    2. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Come on. Who would actually go around their office that sort of question? Or did you just leave out the part where the 7th person punched you in the teeth?

    3. Re:Speaking of people understanding by nizo · · Score: 4, Funny
      My favorite quote from the article:
      Once one learns the complex mathematical language required to express his ideas, Einstein's theories are the simplest and most obvious of any in physics.

      And ummm, how many semesters of college level mathematics must one pass to really understand what he is saying?

    4. Re:Speaking of people understanding by FarmerDave · · Score: 2, Funny

      elucidate: What Ricky had before he and Lucy were married.

      Fred: Ricky, whatcha doing tonight?
      Ricky: I've got elucidate.

      --

      THINK
    5. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correction: go around their office asking that sort of question

    6. Re:Speaking of people understanding by RangerRick98 · · Score: 2, Funny

      ouch. you need better cow-workers ...for better milk!

      --
      "You're older than you've ever been, and now you're even older."
    7. Re:Speaking of people understanding by mOoZik · · Score: 1

      E=MC^2 is pretty simple to understand, though I'm not sure that's what they're referring to. All it says is that the energy (E) containted in any mass (M) is equal to the multiplication of the said mass by the speed of light, squared. Don't ask me to explain anything else, as I never went beyond Calculus BC.

    8. Re:Speaking of people understanding by WolfWithoutAClause · · Score: 2, Funny

      Why don't you elucidate, and I'll get a cloth and mop it up.

      --

      -WolfWithoutAClause

      "Gravity is only a theory, not a fact!"
    9. Re:Speaking of people understanding by daniil · · Score: 1
      And ummm, how many semesters of college level mathematics must one pass to really understand what he is saying?

      Don't know, but certainly not as many as back in 1904.

      --
      Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
    10. Re:Speaking of people understanding by keesh · · Score: 1

      In the UK, none, since all the maths and physics you need is covered at high school level (assuming you take physics and maths at A-Level / Advanced Higher / whatever). Your country may vary...

    11. Re:Speaking of people understanding by schnits0r · · Score: 1

      elucidate: to clarify

    12. Re:Speaking of people understanding by benwb · · Score: 2, Informative

      The general theory requires the solution of partial differential equations best expressed as tensors, and further requires knowledge of differential geometry. The special theory on the other hand just requires some basic calc...

    13. Re:Speaking of people understanding by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, this was from the economist. Most people are barely up to USA Today.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    14. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Gromius · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Thing I love about Special Relativity is that the maths is no more than the high school level yet the implications are astounding (space and time dilation and all that). All the college maths in the world wont help you understand special relativity. Try deriving it some time for fun, the clasical way is working out how long a light ray takes to bounce of the roof inside a moving train for a person in the train and a person outside the train. Its strangly satisfing and like all great theorys, mindboggling obvious once you actually see it. General Relativity on the other hand...

    15. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And ummm, how many semesters of college level mathematics must one pass to really understand what he is saying?"

      Calculus I
      Calculus II
      Calculus III
      Differential Equations and Linear Mathmatics
      Partial Differential Equations

      Five, where I went to school. Each one messier than the last.

    16. Re:Speaking of people understanding by sqlgeek · · Score: 4, Funny
      Hmm, lets see:

      Calc I, II & III

      Differential Equations

      Partial Differential Equations

      Abstract Algebra

      Higher Algebra I (and maybe II, depending on your school)

      Topology I (and maybe II)

      Differential Geometry

      And then I believe you're ready for Tensor Calculus and rudimentary Gauge Theory.

      Now just where is it that they cover this in high school?

      Scott

    17. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny and so very very sad at the same time.

      You know this already, but you can pass this section to them: elucidate = clarify or explain

      Now go forth and educate the unwashed masses (and offer them a bath too).

      Why use a big word when a diminutive lexeme will suffice?

    18. Re:Speaking of people understanding by superstick58 · · Score: 1
      The basic equations are simple enough such as Lorentz contraction. I.E. L'=L*sqrt(1-v^2/c^2). However, if you want to apply relativity in the real world, things may become more difficult. You better be good with your vector skills and coordinate transformations so that you can compare the x, y, z if a "stationary" object with the x', y', z' of the "moving" object.

      Then there's the question of what you OBSERVE versus what is PHYSICALLY REAL. One of my professors brings forward the idea of what he calls "doppler expansion". This is that an object moving directly toward you will actually appear LONGER than it is instead of shorter as is expected with the Lorentz contraction. I'll leave it up to you to puzzle over how that is possible.

    19. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Pchelka · · Score: 1

      When I was in college, a couple of guys we'd just met decided to sit with me and my friends at lunch in the dorm cafeteria. The two guys were taking "Physics for Poets" and tried to impress us girls by showing how smart they were. They started talking about Einstein's theory of relativity, which had been the topic of that day's lecture. The conversation went something like this -

      Cool Dude #1: Man, that Einstein's theory of relativity is pretty intense.

      Cool Dude #2: Yeah, the part about the moving clocks running slow is a real mindblower.

      Cool Dude #1: I wonder if Einstein ever bothered
      to work out a mathematical formula for it.

      (I almost blew milk out my nose at that one!)

      Cool Dude #2: Yeah, anyone who figures out the math behind that would win a Nobel Prize for sure!

      (At this point in the discussion, my friends were watching me closely for signs that my head was
      about to explode, since they all knew I was a physics major.)

      Me: Well, there have been equations describing relativistic effects on mass and energy around for years.

      Cool Dude #1: Really? I'll bet that the equations are extremely nasty.

      Me: Well, the special theory of relativity isn't too difficult. The mathematics behind the general theory of relativity is a bit more complicated.

      Cool Dude #2: Wow, have you taken physics?

      My friends: Arrgggghhhh!

      (I was on the floor completely incapacitated with laughter.)

      Just FYI, Einstein wasn't awarded the Nobel Prize for his work on the theory of relativity. Einstein received the award "for his services to Theoretical Physics, and especially for his discovery of the law of the photoelectric effect." I think that a lot of people believe he won the Nobel Prize for the work on relativity, since that is the idea that gets the most attention in popular science literature.

    20. Re:Speaking of people understanding by kf6auf · · Score: 1

      Photoelectric Effect - none (High School Caclulus)
      Special Relativity - none (High School Calculus)
      Quantum Mechanics - 2 years
      General Relativity - 2 years of college math, maybe 3 depending on your college
      Bose-Einstein Condensate - probably 3-4 years of college math, haven't done it, and again, it would depend on your college

      I used years because my school is on the quarter system.

      Special Relativity really is not all that hard. While I cannot claim to have rederived it all from scratch, I've rederived a good portion of it using not more than some Calculus and Algebra. QM is a bit interesting as it starts out not requiring that much math (like the photoeletric effect), but rapidly increases to requiring tensors, operators, and other multi-dimensional (semi-)infinite wells and shit.

    21. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      That's a serious amount of overkill for SR. I did introductory SR in Grade 11, and the math was a couple of grades below that in difficulty. I did a very thorough study of SR in 2nd year university, and the maths were still of a high school level.

      GR is another matter, of course. But anyone who escapes high school without an understanding of SR has received a deficient education, IMO.

    22. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Now just where is it that they cover this in high school?
      Asia.
    23. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Kehvarl · · Score: 1

      ouch. you need better cow-workers ...for better milk!

      With all this better milk, we will need some cookies.

    24. Re:Speaking of people understanding by iabervon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It doesn't take much math to understand what he's saying. To work out the consequences, on the other hand, can take a lot. (But something like the view of magnetism as a consequence of special relativity applied to electricity only takes about half a term of calculus beyond the Calc BC AP exam; MIT has a first-term physics course which covers it).

      In fact, Feynmann's QED (Quantum ElectroDynamics) doesn't require any tricky math to explain Einstein's more counterintuitive stuff.

    25. Re:Speaking of people understanding by benna · · Score: 1

      In 8th grade, I used to ask people if they would consider themself to be an intellectual. The majority of the time the answer would be "What's an intellectual" which was as good as any answer.

      --
      "It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
    26. Re:Speaking of people understanding by quetzalc0atl · · Score: 1

      this is not true.

      understanding general relativity is within reach of most students with an aptitude for math.

      first of all, differential geometry utilizes tensor analysis and possibly differential forms, and all that is needed to learn these things is multivariate calculus, linear algebra and a very small amount of topology (in fact, most books on diff. geom. will give you the rigorous definition of a differentiable manifold).

      trust me, because i know differential geometry. you are making seem much more difficult then it really is.

      now ACTUALLY solving einsteins equation is another matter....and would most likely require some of the other topics you have mentions (partial diff. eq. especially).

    27. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1
      I asked 7 people in my office what elucidate meant. Only one person knew

      You want to get really depressed? Go back and ask those same people how long it takes for the Earth to go around the Sun. Seriously. And I don't mean any picky answer. One year is of course, by definition, the best answer, but 365 days is fine.

      Answers I've gotten:

      "24 hours"
      Very common. I explain that's how long it takes to rotate, not go around the Sun. Then I give them another chance. I don't count it as a miss.

      "Oh! A long time!"
      Well how long? Take a guess.
      "....Two years?"

      "Two minutes."
      The same guy who said that also thought his calculator was broken when taking 10% of a number and the digits didn't change.

      Now I know you think that it's ridiculous, and everybody will get it right, but you try it. I expect that at least four of your seven will get it wrong.

    28. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      mmmmm cookies....
      </homer>

    29. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Ra5pu7in · · Score: 1

      Actually, I'm about a third of the way into "A Theory of General Relativity" now. I have no semesters of college level mathematics - only through geometry in school and some learning from trig and calculus books on my own time. While containing complex mathematical equations, Einstein is very good about clarifying each step of what he is doing. In fact, based on some of what I've learned about him, his ideas preceded their own mathematical proofs -- he had to work out the math to prove his point not to think of it. If anything, it is the other theories that he refers to which I've had to go learn to understand what he's saying.

      --
      I was taking one day at a time, but then several days got together and ambushed me. (from a Rhymes with Orange comic)
    30. Re:Speaking of people understanding by ambrosine10 · · Score: 1

      You are fucking kidding me.

      I'm a third-year undergrad physics major at a top-ranked (according to US News at least) liberal arts college in the US. We have juniors taking differential geometry and general relativity, but only a few, and they're pretty much geniuses. Yes MIT offers GR as an undergrad course but that's MIT. Our math department doesn't even offer differential geometry because it's a grad-level topic.

      I've looked at Thirring and it's incomprehensible to me. I suppose I'll have to take some analysis and such.

    31. Re:Speaking of people understanding by quetzalc0atl · · Score: 1

      why would i be kidding you?

      i have read texts by bishop, frankel, wald and do carmo on differential geometry and also some texts on differential forms (weintraub and also darling).

      i was instructed in diff. geom. by a theoretical physicist. i know what i am talking about.

      diff geo is for some reason considered a "grad-level topic". i dont know why since it is nowhere near as difficult (in my opinion) as analysis or topology, which are both "undergrad-level".

      diff. geom. is a fun and fascinating subject. and with a modern approach (i.e. looking at tensors as multilinear mappings) it is a very natural subject to study.

    32. Re:Speaking of people understanding by quetzalc0atl · · Score: 1

      since u dont believe me, here take a look at some of my posts on this forum:

      http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=50 09 9

      and

      http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=48 01 9&page=2

      just a bunch of derivatives and vectors, nothing tricky, no secret voodoo needed

    33. Re:Speaking of people understanding by quetzalc0atl · · Score: 1

      er sorry, the links didn't paste right:
      http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=4801 9&page=2
      and
      http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=5009 9

    34. Re:Speaking of people understanding by yourmom16 · · Score: 1

      They were talking about special relativity, not general relativity

      --
      "We have got to make Stan understand the importance of voting, because he'll definitely vote for our guy." - South Park
    35. Re:Speaking of people understanding by ambrosine10 · · Score: 1

      I'm sure you're a smart guy, but I'm just saying differential geometry is ridiculously difficult for most people, math/physics undergrads included. Analysis or topology is pretty much a requirement for learning differential geometry, isn't it?

    36. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Differential geometry isn't really any harder than vector calculus. It's just the generalization of vector calculus from vectors to matrices (or other tensors). In fact, people often do a little differential geoemtry in vector calculus (such as calculating normal and tangent vectors to curves; the next step is surfaces). The math isn't really all that different. You need to add in some linear algebra to understand how things generalize from vectors to matrices and higher-order tensors, thoug, but it's pretty much the same thing as regular linear algebra, except, um, more. :-) (e.g., instead of a NxN matrix, you've got an NxNxN "matrix") Most of differential geometry, at least the parts relevant to general relativity, is just a generalization of the gradient or directional derivative to non-Cartesian coordinates. Some students do that anyway (in cylindrical or spherical coordinates) in vector calc; differential geometry just provides a systematic way of working in those coordinate systems.

      I taught myself differential geometry in college. It's much easier nowadays, with good books aimed at undergraduates. For general relativity, check out Schutz's book. He steps you through really simple examples, like in polar coordinates, and gradually steps things up until he's got you calculating curvatures.

    37. Re:Speaking of people understanding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And by the way, no, you don't need analysis or topology to do differential geometry (although it helps, if you want to be really rigorous). The prerequisites are just vector calculus, and, optionally, linear algebra.

    38. Re:Speaking of people understanding by IncohereD · · Score: 1

      All that math but you can't figure out after two tries that slashdot inserts spaces in plaintext URLs? And how to use a HREF tag? :)

    39. Re:Speaking of people understanding by ambrosine10 · · Score: 1

      I see. Well I guess at my school they teach it very rigorously - the texts I saw on it were 90% proofs and theories, and I couldn't even understand the definitions on the first page. And I do know vector calc and linear. So I suppose it's just the level you teach it at.

  9. As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by TJ_Phazerhacki · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I can honestly say that, even a hundred years later, Ein never ceases to amaze me. Just gotta wonder some times - what would have hapened without him? We were so close to losing him.


    We need a National Holiday - Physicists Day - On his Birthday!

    --
    Physics is nothing like religion. If it was, we'd have an easier time trying to raise money!
    1. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We would not have nuked a peacful nation.

    2. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Nerd+Cooties · · Score: 1

      Funny, I don't remember anyone nuking any peacful (sp.) nations. Just what peaceful nation got nuked? The only places I can recall having nuclear bombs being detonated are Russian, Indian, Pakastani, and US testing grounds, Small Islands in the Pacific (more testing) and finally Japan also received two during a war they initiated with us. Did I miss someone there?

      --
      I support the 2nd Amendment, the right to keep and arm bears!
    3. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by mOoZik · · Score: 1

      He does amaze me, as well, but I think someone else would have eventually derived his formulas and theories. I mean, Calculus was simultaneously derived/invented/discovered by at least two people, namely Newton and Leibniz. Had they not, someone else would have, sooner or later.

      I say this not to take anything away from Einstein, because he was truly a genius. In fact, there have been very few individuals as influential and as damn smart as Einstein. Forget Paris Hilton, drool over Einie!

    4. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by mOoZik · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      He's referring to the nuking of Japan, which was indeed our enemy. But do realize that most of the people who died were innocent, ordinary citizens, not military targets. Regardless, many people - myself included - believe that dropping of two nuclear bombs was not only unnecessary, but immoral, as well. Japan was almost dead militarily and no matter how hard one tries, one cannot justify the short term effects of 250,000+ dead innocent people - as well as the thousands more over the years. Some will argue that the bombs spared the lives of many American soldiers, but you're free to take whatever side you'd like, as history/conditioning/etc. has cemented that point of view in the hearts and minds of most Americans.

    5. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We would not have nuked a peacful nation.

      Sunday, December 7th, 1941.

      Generally, if one does not want physical retaliation, one does not initiate a fight.

    6. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read some history and note the alternative. Nuking them was the only way because they would have fought to the last man had we invaded. Once we nuked them, they realized that even if they decided to fight to the last man, it would only be a matter of us carpet bombing them with nukes, not an invasion of their country. And wisely, they chose surrender. Many, many sepukus followed.

    7. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There were no innocent Japanese in WWII. They all supported the Japanese war machine.

      When nations are at war, there are really not many innocent bystanders. A nation's military does not exist independent of its civilians.

    8. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Nerd+Cooties · · Score: 1

      You realize that Japan was NOT going to surrender and was expecting its people to die to the last defending the homeland. That not only would an unbelievable amount of American died invading Japan, so would countless Japanese (innocent, ordinary citizens, not military targets included). The two bombs dropped on Japanese cities were enough to make the Emperor realize that surrender was the only was to survive as a people. So dropping the bombs might not have been the nicest thing to do, it did prevent a possibly horrific invasion that would have cost millions of lives on both sides.

      BTW, calling Japan at that time peaceful is quite incorrect. Look at they did to expand their empire, Nanking (not sure of spelling) is a prime example of their peaceful intent.

      --
      I support the 2nd Amendment, the right to keep and arm bears!
    9. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Generally, if one does not want physical retaliation, one does not
      > initiate a fight.

      Unfortunately for your bit of "reasoning," a nation isn't comprised of any "one" person. Try thinking harder.

    10. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > There were no innocent Japanese in WWII. They all supported the Japanese
      > war machine.
      >
      > When nations are at war, there are really not many innocent bystanders.
      > A nation's military does not exist independent of its civilians.

      You are fucking retarded. Here's a demonstration as to why:

      There were no innocent Americans in 9/11. They all supported the American war machine.

      When nations are at war, there are really not many innocent bystanders. A nation's military does not exist independent of its civilians.

      Are you really prepared to give carte blanche to violent idealogues, or to our army for that matter, to kill civilians? Fucking twit.

    11. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Yokaze · · Score: 1
      --
      "Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
    12. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Shadow+Wrought · · Score: 1
      One of my friends neighbors was a WWII veteran. He was on a troop ship heading out into the Pacific when the atomic blast happened. Their rallying cry was Golden Gate by '48. Keep in mind that our military had seen numerous Japanese soldiers and civilians kill their own families and themselves instead of being captured. Whether they still had military ability or not, everyone from the planners and officers, all the way down to the grunts, expected years more of hard fought combat. The expectation was that they would have to take Japan one house at a time. I can certainly understand how they would use the Atomic bomb as a means to avoid that loss of life.

      The other thing to remember is that the firebomb raids on Tokyo earlier in '45 (either March or May) killed over a 100,000 as well, and that was with conventional bombs. WW II Saw some of the vilest, nastiest things that humans had ever done to each other- on all sides of the conflict. In that context I am not willing to make a judgment as to whether we should or should have dropped the bomb. The best decisiona at the time, the one that looked to end the war the fastest, was the one chosen.

      The best quote I ever heard about history, was that "History is neither to condemn nor deny, it is but to understand." I think that it is in situations like these that it best applies.

      --
      If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
    13. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you're wrong.
      The Japanese were ready to surrender, they knew that the Russians were bringing *their* war machine to bear. The Japanese wanted to surrender, but we wouldn't accept their surrender.
      We knew the war was almost over, they knew the war was almost over...
      Nothing was gained by nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

    14. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > You realize that Japan was NOT going to surrender and was expecting its people
      > to die to the last defending the homeland.

      You realize that you really have no fucking idea what would have happened, right? Japan was making peace overtures that were ignored for politics' sake.

      > That not only would an unbelievable amount of American died invading Japan,
      > so would countless Japanese (innocent, ordinary citizens, not military targets
      > included).

      You realize that utilitarian arguments are the last resort of the amoral, right?

    15. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it would have been the germans instead.

    16. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You may want to peruse a history book once in a while.

      Japan was quite unified in its war effort in 1941, as opposed to the dichotomy within the US in recent war efforts. In retrospect, bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki spared the lives of many Japanese civilians. The nation was fully prepared to fight to the last soldier, expecting a full invasion on its shores. Such an invasion would have been very costly on both sides, but the American costs would have been only soldiers while the Japanese costs would have included many, many civilians as their nation has always been somewhat densely populated. The American invasion would have pushed into more prominent (read: populated) cities, such as Osaka and Tokyo (cities which, by the way, could just as easily have been bombing targets, had we no shred of human decency).

      While the politics of the world today are vastly more complicated, this issue in 1941 was painfully simple. Japan, as a whole, wanted to attack the US. It did so willingly and without provocation. The US President urged for peace prior to the attack, following the general sentiment of isolationism throughout the US. Our people simply didn't want to fight foreign wars. Japan changed that sentiment and we haven't reverted since.

    17. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by the+unbeliever · · Score: 1

      Yes, because killing 250,000 people is somehow worse than the hundreds of thousands more that would have died had we invaded Japan (which would have been inevitable)

    18. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Try thinking harder"?

      Dude, that was weak. Your flaming skills need work before you come onto this stage again.

      Moreover, parent poster's logic was just fine. You can't refer to WWII-era Japan as a peaceful nation. If Japan AS A NATION didn't want their collective asses kicked, they shouldn't have started that war in the first place.

      Of course, that's all irrelevant to the goal of annoying your betters, right?

    19. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right. We'd have been forced to invade instead. Many more Japanese civilians would have died as a result, but we'd be able to replace that famous Iwo Jima image with one of a US flag being erected on the burning ruins of Tokyo.

      I'm not sure about you, but I prefer that the war ended with 2 devastating attacks instead of a year of invasion and ultimately having to occupy the whole country. Only God knows what kind of atrocities would have happened had we not ended it right then and there.

    20. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by teromajusa · · Score: 1

      Inevitable? Hardly. Japan was already making peace overtures. But the US wanted unconditional surrender and wanted the war with Japan to end before the Russians got involved.

    21. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      There're two people that do that for me: Einstein and Nikola Tesla (that is, in the physics world alone). Tesla was a bit over the top, buy an incredibly bright individual indeed, and one of the most underappreciated figures in Physics. He has a measurment unit named after him and yet, a lot of people have never heard of him.

    22. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Nerd+Cooties · · Score: 1

      I would say it was you had has 'no fucking idea'. Japan's attempts at peace were bullshit attempts to stop the war they started while keeping what gains they could get. As for being ready for surrender, you might want to look into the attempted coup by the military and what the civilian populace was being told to do when we invaded.

      --
      I support the 2nd Amendment, the right to keep and arm bears!
    23. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      It's Nanking indeed, check this link.

      And yes, the Japanese did some pretty awful shit during WWII. So did the Germans, the Russians, and yes, Americans. No one is denying the huge (positive) impact USA had in WWII, but the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were, IMHO, uncalled for. It's matter for a l-o-n-g debate though, and completely offtopic here :)

    24. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No.

      Some Japanese were ready to surrender. There were still factions in powerful places ready to fight to the last. Even after we nuked them they still wanted this.

      They also weren't ready to unconditionally surrender. We wanted their unconditional surrender.

      You speak half truths at best.

    25. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      WW2 historical revisionism?

      When were the Japanese ready to surrender? The military wasn't, but Emporer Hirohito surrendered the country anyways to avoid more nukes and deaths, which saved lives for both sides in actuality. They knew the US was preparing for a big invasion of mainland Japan, and they would have fought to to the last man, or commit suicide rather than become a POW. A soldier surrendering would bring such dishonor to the soldier and his family that he'd kill himself than surrender.
      Look up "Operation Downfall" for the plans to invade Japan, it was ready to start Nov. 1945 and following to the next spring all without taking the nukes into account. There's more, but you should read about it yourself. Now please move along, troll.

    26. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      Sorry, wrong link (relevant, but that's a book). Check this other. Be warned though, there're some pretty graphics photograps in there.

    27. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So not only did we save American and Japanese lives, we saved a few Russians as well.

    28. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by FXSTD · · Score: 1

      Very impressive troll. With a single, obviously inflammatory comment you have managed to set the hook and start up yet another "Nuking Japan was immoral vs. It was the best solution to a serious problem" debate.

      Outstanding.

    29. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by teromajusa · · Score: 1

      Possibly it saved lives in comparison to an invasion. Seems unlikely it saved lives in comparison to negotiating a surrender.

    30. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems unlikely it saved lives in comparison to negotiating a surrender.

      And during these negotiations you expect hostilities to magically cease? Either you have far too much faith in diplomacy or you've seen the third Matrix movie too many times. I don't know which is more shameful.

      As several posts have pointed out, the Japanese military was ready to fight to the last man. Dropping the bombs was the best way to show them what "the last man" really meant. We had the ability to eradicate their entire nation, not just their military, with minimal losses of our own. We didn't want that any more than they did. We simply wanted it to end, immediately. No diplomats, no beurocrats, no lengthy negotiations while young men kill each other. The choice was clear: Kill thousands now or kill tens, maybe hundreds of thousands later.

    31. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by MacDaffy · · Score: 1

      If I'd had a chance to control events, I would have sent a cable to the Japanese telling them to evacuate an island and have observers standing by at a safe distance on the morning of August 6th. I'd have dropped the bomb and followed up with another cable: Surrender now and we won't drop another one.

      But that's just me..;

    32. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about? Russias war declaration was part of the strategy.

      1. Send surrender demand (Japan Reject vehemently)
      2. Drop atomic bomb
      3. Send second surrender demand (same reaction)
      4. Have Russia declare war (they "liberate" manchuria)
      5. Send third surrender demand (same reaction)
      6. Drop second atomic bomb
      7. Demand surrender (Japan accepts a conditional surrender)

      After all of that and we allowed the emperor to live as a figure head as a surrender condition. A smart one as it helped win the peace but the Japanese were not going down easily. They had withdrawn most of their military back to the home islands. Upon investigation after the surrender there was still a capable military force left. Just do a little research it's all there.

      oh yeah and given Japans state today

      8. ...
      9. Profit!

    33. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Generally, if one does not want physical retaliation, one does not initiate a fight."

      so i guess sept 11th was jsutified then. after all osama didnt start it, the USA did with their years of middle eastern CIA influence.

    34. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1
      Right. Tell them where to have the fighters ready to shoot down the bomber...

      I don't think they would evacuate an island (making it insanely easy to capture for our use as a military base) just because we asked.

      I understand your idea and agree in principal it would have been nice, but I don't think it would have been practical to do in a war setting.

    35. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what would have hapened without him?

      Feynman (or someone similar) would have come up with the same theory. There are plenty of really smart people. Relativity isn't really that hard to come up w/ given the observations we now have. What was hard, was coming up with it with out the math and with very few observations. Quantum Mechanics is trivial compared to Quantum Field Theory. The same hold true for Newton, Maxwell, Dirac, Fermi and all the rest. Which is why many theories are discovered independantly.

    36. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by teromajusa · · Score: 1

      And during these negotiations you expect hostilities to magically cease?

      At that point in the war, the Japanese were very limited in their offensive capabilities. They didn't have fuel for planes, they didn't have much left in the way of ships. Ceasing hostilities would have been largely a matter of the US slowing its advance.

      As several posts have pointed out, the Japanese military was ready to fight to the last man.

      Surrender negotiations may not have succeeded, but both other options would have still been open had they failed.

    37. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The nuclear bombing had several goals. It was meant not only cause tremendous amount of damage but to create the world wide awareness that US is in posession of new powerful weapon.

      It was a PR stunt. Horrible and deadly PR stunt. There were no doubts at that time that Japan lost the war before the first nuclear blast, and pretty obvious after it. Everybody knew it, including the Japaneese.Well, at least the ones who had ability to make rational decisions. You said it yourself that it was possible to create almost the same damage using conventional weapons.

      You can understand real reasons of using nuclear weapons against Japan if you remember that two bombs were dropped. There were absolutely no need for the second bomb unless you understand the why they did it.

      1. It was a test of a different nuclear device. plutonium bomb. So basicly americans used japaneese civilians as test subjects for their experiments. Do you still have warm and fuzzy feelings?

      2.Everybody was supposed to welcome their new nuclear overlords.The WWII was almost over but the Cold War was just starting. The only reason the Cold War didn't get into Thermonuclear War is the low american stockpile of nuclear weapons in the late 40s. It was simply not enough to destroy Soviet Union at the time, and later on there was MAD. The plans for nuclear bombing of Russia's industrial centers are dated in the late 40s.

    38. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by Rick+BigNail · · Score: 1
      Why want unconditionally surrender?

      Even as a Chinese, I don't see why.

    39. Re:As a Physics/Comp Sci Major... by MacDaffy · · Score: 1

      What do youy propose they would have shot down the bomber with?

      How did two bombers obliterate Hiroshima and Nagasaki without escorts?

      You may be a "physic/comp sci" major, but you should have paid attention in history class.

  10. Another good book and thoughts by Manan+Shah · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Another good book is 'Relativity and Common Sense'. It explains the logical progression from Newton to Einstein. It starts off with Gravity, newtonian principles and then starts adding twists. However, I think that quantom mechanics probably was a bigger discovery than Einstein. The concept of chance at the atomic level was a revelation, and even Einstein had trouble accepting it. However, we can only hope that within our lifetime, someone will succeed in crafting the 'THeory of Everything' which combines theory of large objects such as Planets, galaxies of Einstein with the theory of small things such as atoms of quantam mechanics. Maybe M (string theory) is the answer, maybe not. But these are exciting times we live in!

    1. Re:Another good book and thoughts by kisrael · · Score: 1

      I just read Gleick's biography of Newton...amazing how even back then they were arguing particle vs. wave for light, based on odd discrepencies with even their fairly primitive aparatus...like how light refracts around a razor blade. Given that the answer we now seem happiest with is "both", it's not surprising Newton kind of hedged his bets.

      --
      SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
    2. Re:Another good book and thoughts by Ignignot · · Score: 2, Informative

      It should be noted that einstein won the nobel prize for his work on the photoelectric effect, which is a part of quantum mechanics.

      --
      I submitted this story last night, and it didn't get posted.
    3. Re:Another good book and thoughts by budgenator · · Score: 1

      The Nobel prize has a praticality clause and photoelectric effect has obvious pratical applications where reletivity doesn't.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    4. Re:Another good book and thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The GPS and upcoming Galileo system use relativity, I would say they are practical...

    5. Re:Another good book and thoughts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, we know that now, but it wasn't obvious at the time the Nobel was awarded.

    6. Re:Another good book and thoughts by bcrowell · · Score: 1
      My recommendations:
      • Relativity Simply Explained, Martin Gardner (nonmathematical)
      • The New World of Mr Tompkins: George Gamow's Classic Mr Tompkins in Paperback, Gamow et al. (nonmathematical)
      • Spacetime Physics, Edwin F. Taylor, John Archibald Wheeler
      • The Modern Revolution in Physics, by me, free download
  11. elucidate by NitsujTPU · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Ahh, it's so much more clear to me now that they've elusiwhatevered it. Choosing obscure words like elucidate over simpler words like explain or clarify really does help to ameliorate the burden of learning difficult material.

    1. Re:elucidate by Jim+Starx · · Score: 1
      www.dictionary.com

      ;)

      --
      The darkness... controls the music. The music... controls the soul.
    2. Re:elucidate by 0racle · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yes, I find it somewhat ironic that a word that means to explain requires an explination and is not clear at all.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    3. Re:elucidate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you need help with "elucidate," maybe you're not quite ready for general relativity anyway.

    4. Re:elucidate by Haydn+Fenton · · Score: 1

      Quite.
      And I, for one, find it ironic that the word for the fear of long words is hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia.

    5. Re:elucidate by Lucidus · · Score: 1

      The statement "elucidate is an obscure word" is functionally equivalent to the statement "I am neither well-read nor well-educated." I personally found the article admirably lucid.

    6. Re:elucidate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You got me. Thank God someone finally pinned down that my comment, meant in jest, was actually an insight into what a complete moron I am.

    7. Re:elucidate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eschew obfuscation.

      Elucidation is atithetical to intellectual verbosity.

    8. Re:elucidate by ratsnapple+tea · · Score: 1

      Eschew? Perhaps you meant "embrace"?

    9. Re:elucidate by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      The problem, though, is that it doesn't just mean "to explain". Have you ever had an "ah-ha!" moment? If that came as a result of someone or something pointing out a fine point that you'd missed that was preventing you from seeing the big picture, then they elucidated the subject. That is, they helped you "see the light".

      I can explain calculus to my 4-year-old son. I do not expect him to be elucidated until he's quite a bit older.

      Frankly, if a word like "elucidate" vexes you, then you need to read longer books. Despite what they teach kids in elementary school, most of the interesting words in our language have no true synonyms.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    10. Re:elucidate by 0racle · · Score: 1

      it doesn't just mean "to explain".

      Hm, lets see
      elucidate v. elucidated, elucidating, elucidates v. tr.
      To make clear or plain, especially by explanation; clarify.
      v. intr. To give an explanation that serves to clarify. See Synonyms at explain.
      make clear and (more) comprehensible; "clarify the mystery surrounding her death" [syn: clarify, clear up] [ant: obfuscate]
      2: make free from confusion or ambiguity; make clear; "Could you clarify these remarks?"; "Clear up the question of who is at fault" [syn: clear, clear up, shed light on, crystallize, crystallise, crystalize, crystalise, straighten out, sort out, enlighten, illuminate]

      Wow, look at all those synonyms.

      ever had an "ah-ha" moment
      I believe the word your looking for is eureka.

      If your looking for a word to make you look superior to others you might want to look for more words, elucidate exactly means to explain.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    11. Re:elucidate by snorklewacker · · Score: 1

      Elucidate means "to shed light on". Maybe you meant epiphany?

      --
      I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
    12. Re:elucidate by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1
      Wow, look at all those synonyms.

      You seem to think that "synonym" means "exact replacement"; it does not. If it did, then the property would have to be transitive, and I don't think anyone would agree from your own example that "crystalize" is identical to "straighten out".

      I believe the word your looking for is eureka.

      No. I was looking for "ah-ha" and found it. Eureka has a connotation of discovery, while I wanted to imply a sudden understanding.

      If your looking for a word to make you look superior to others you might want to look for more words, elucidate exactly means to explain.

      If you're looking for a way to make yourself look inferior to others, then pick a fine point of the English language and argue it loudly and wrongly. "Elucidate" does not have the exact same meaning as "explain", and if you truly think it does then there's not much point in continuing the conversation.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    13. Re:elucidate by NitsujTPU · · Score: 1

      Goodness, this is a bigger flame-war than I ever intended. One of the first posts in this mess was a guy calling me a moron for thinking of elucidate as a funny word to use in the place it was used.

      It was really meant to be a joke.

    14. Re:elucidate by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      So, finding "lucid" in "elucidate" is too difficult for you? It must be; you can't spell "explanation."

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  12. Old relativity joke by fm6 · · Score: 4, Funny
    Old Man to his grandson: All you talk about is this Einstein and his relativity. What is this "relativity"?

    Grandson (who hasn't a clue, but can't admit it): Well, you see, relative to me, you're old, but relative to a sea turtle, you're young...

    (Long silence.)

    Old Man: So. From this, your Einstein makes a living?

    1. Re:Old relativity joke by karvind · · Score: 0
      Relativity is about time moving slower when you move fast or something like that.

      I think time always move slow when relatives are there.

      -a

    2. Re:Old relativity joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always thought it was "The size of the guest bedroom is directly proportional to the number of relatives in the house."

    3. Re:Old relativity joke by StrQSt400 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Nature and nature's laws lay hid in night,
      God said, "Let Newton be," and all was light.
      Alexander Pope
      It did not last; the devil howling "Ho! Let Einstein be!"
      restored the status quo.
      Sir John Collings Squire

  13. Einstein hated? by teiresias · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I had a physics professor who hated Einstein and seemed to imply that there was a large faction of the scientific community who did as well. I'm not sure if this is from popularity or some honest to God issue he/they might have had with him. And I don't think I'll be able to find that out from this article since it seems to be singing most of his praises.

    Any ideas?

    --
    -Teiresias
    1. Re:Einstein hated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He was anti A-bomb.

    2. Re:Einstein hated? by jamesoutlaw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not surprising that you had a professor who hated Einstein. Scientists are notorious for hating one another- often for absurd reasons- but also often out of jealousy or simply from a difference of "professional" opinion. I once knew two research engineering professors, from the same department, who would try to get each others research grants cancelled simply because they disagreed on some theories.

    3. Re:Einstein hated? by xv4n · · Score: 0, Troll

      He was a resented Nazi (?)

    4. Re:Einstein hated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      No. None what-so-ever.

      Einstein made large contributions in multiple fields including early Quantum Mechanics, Relativity, and Gravity. There is just no way that a "physicist" could not respect the man.

      However many, many trolls are anti-Relativity and anti-Einstein. There is just something about aether theory that attracts the trolls. I can only guess that relativity is too hard for them and our current understanding of particles/vacuum is completely inaccessable. The trolls probably don't like being cutt off from knowledge and discussion, so they make up their own physics. I really don't know.

      Hang out on a physics newsgroups for about 5-minutes. I guarantee that you will run into dozens of relativity-deniers.

    5. Re:Einstein hated? by n1ywb · · Score: 1

      What the fuck are you shitting? Albert hated Hitler and urged free Europe to take up arms against him.

      --
      -73, de n1ywb
      www.n1ywb.com
    6. Re:Einstein hated? by mOoZik · · Score: 1

      Your professor was an anti-Semite. ;)

      Just kidding, but scientists are very passionate about which theories they choose to believe. I can see someone disagreeing to that extent, even with established theories.

    7. Re:Einstein hated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I think the fuck he is shitting is that the hater was a Nazi, not Einstein.

      Unlikely, IMO.

    8. Re:Einstein hated? by parker9 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it's not that physicists hate Einstein, it's more they hate how people view Einstein. it's mostly because Einstein became the poster-boy for the media about modern physics. as we know, the media tends to simplify things and so it suggests that Einstein did relativity, photoelectric effect, etc. by himself.

      given that Newton said he had seen far only because he stood on the shoulders of giants, Einstein is even more indebted to others before and during his time.

      look, i'm not saying that he wasn't a remarkable physicist- when i read some of his papers, i do feel like i'm reading something that's very close to 'god'- so clear, so elegant, so beautiful.

      yes, i am a physicist. and yes, i do find myself using Einstein's results. i'm glad when it happens, because i *feel* i'm close to reality.

    9. Re:Einstein hated? by xv4n · · Score: 1
      I had a physics professor who hated Einstein...
      He was a resented Nazi (?)

      RTFP, I meant parent's professor, not Albert.

    10. Re:Einstein hated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're confusing him with Max Planck. He most certainly was a Nazi.

    11. Re:Einstein hated? by arivanov · · Score: 1

      1. There is a general uneasiness in some parts of the scientific community about him not giving sufficient credit to Poincare. OK, that is an understatement, some people quite openly consider that he nicked most of Poincare's work. I have never read both in original so I would not venture any guesses. Ask someone who had (there are not many as Poincare papers have not been reprinted since WWI).

      2. There is a general uneasiness in some parts of the engineering community regarding the striking similarities between a number of patents filed by Einstein and a large number of patent applications slaughtered by him during his tenure as a patent examiner after university. These mostly revolve around the concept of absorbtion refrigeration (the compressorless fridges that were quite popular in Europe 20+ years ago).

      Unfortunately the discussion of both of these subjects tends to degenerate into a shouting match where anyone doubting Einstein moral faculties and scientific abilities is immediately branded as an antisemitic arsehole. Such branding is dangerous to your career in many places nowdays so many people who have doubts prefer to stay silent.

      --
      Baker's Law: Misery no longer loves company. Nowadays it insists on it
      http://www.sigsegv.cx/
    12. Re:Einstein hated? by i_should_be_working · · Score: 1

      I have a friend who often refers to Hawking as a dick, and will honestly try to explain why he thinks the guy is a dick.

    13. Re:Einstein hated? by Pchelka · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it's not that physicists hate Einstein, it's more they hate how people view Einstein. it's mostly because Einstein became the poster-boy for the media about modern physics. as we know, the media tends to simplify things and so it suggests that Einstein did relativity, photoelectric effect, etc. by himself.

      I once participated in a seminar on "Women in Science" where we talked about the "Marie Curie Effect" as a reason why more women do not pursue careers in science. Because Marie Curie was such an outstanding scientist in a time when there were only a handful of women scientists around the world, people started expecting any woman who tried to pursue a career in science to make earth-shattering discoveries like Marie Curie did. Rather than improving the situation for women scientists, Marie Curie's success actually made it worse.

      Most scientists, whether they are male or female, will never make the kinds of discoveries that are worthy of a Nobel prize or a lot of media attention. Most of us just plug away each day, making small advances that might eventually contribute to the next great paradigm shift (or not!). When a physicist says they hate Einstein or Curie, or when an astronomer says they hate Sagan, the real reason could be that they dislike the way the rest of the world sees these scientists. No real scientist can live up to the fantasy images of these people presented by the mass media and popular culture. It's kind of like the way real women don't look like the supermodels in Sports Illustrated, and most men aren't like the muscular athletes who get paid millions of dollars to advertise shoes.

    14. Re:Einstein hated? by Quino · · Score: 2, Informative

      The problem with Einstein (if you can call it a problem) is that he *was* the most important physicist since Newton.

      He stands completely unchallenged in the scope and quantity of contributions he's made to physics. He's the poster boy not because of the media, but because to this day the problems he couldn't solve are the problems we're still working on today, and no one single-handedly has so much changed the way we look at the universe (except for Newton).

      At least for him, he _was_ "the opera singer super model brain surgeon sports star" of physics.

      I've linked this article a lot (I think it's fascinating), but it specifically talks about physicists trying to "measure up" to other greats. But, trying to measure up against Einstein is a sort of dream:

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/genius/

    15. Re:Einstein hated? by parker9 · · Score: 1

      'most important physicist since Newton'. says who? pbs?

      the fact remains, Einstein didn't 'invent' new mathematics as Newton did. Lorentz had the equations for special relativity. Plank had described black body radiation. Einstein needed help in writing down general relativity equations. His work on Brownian motion was built upon Boltzman and statistics.

      his genius was to see a different way of explaining these things. time was not invariant was not obvious. that photons are quantized (i.e. particle-like) flew in the face of Maxwell's equations.

      i'm not trying to take away anything from Einstein. it's just that the popular conception of him being 'the opera singer super model brain surgeion sports star' of physics is insulting to all the other great minds. he could not have done what he did without others.

    16. Re:Einstein hated? by markk · · Score: 1

      On number 1 there is no uneasiness except by people who want to make it. I have read the original papers by both - they are actually amazingly easy to find in large University Physics Libraries, look in the History of Science area - or were in the early 1980's. Poincare might very well have developed special relativity at some point, but the approaches are not compatible - in fact Minkowski's formulation of SR is much closer to Poincare's work. Einstein's initial papers are amazingly basic and obviously guided by physical intuition, whereas Poincare's are more in the European Academic tradition and mathematically formulated. You can see they are coming from different directions easily (IMHO).
      MRJK

    17. Re:Einstein hated? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Einstein had a bit of an inferiority complex and often belittled the contributions of his contemporaries. He often downplayed, mocked, or refused to acknowledge the work of his contemporaries, even going so far as to say that he used them as passive "sounding boards" for his own ideas. This led to the popular misconception that Einstein discovered general relativity inside of a vaccum

      For example, Einstein at first ignored and later insulted Hermann Minowski's 1908 discovery of absolute spacetime, implying that Minowski's mathematics were an absurd and overcomplicated restatement of special relativity. But only three years after Minowski's death, Enstein used abolute spacetime as the key foundation of general relativity, providing only minimal acknowledgement and certainly no apology.

      Similarly, Hilbert -- having worked out most of the mathematics of general relativity and even having made the discovery few weeks before Einstein -- recieved little praise or thanks from his former collaborator.

      Many others, including Poincare, Grossman, and Plank, made key contributions to relativity, but their work is often forgotten. The traditional view of scientists as collaborators working towards a common goal did not fit in well with Einstein's fanciful self-image.

      -Mike

    18. Re:Einstein hated? by Quino · · Score: 1

      Check out the article, no one claimed that he did it himself (and I certainly didn't). No one can think that.

      And there have been other smart people. To say he was smarter (or contributed more) doesn't take away from the other brilliant physicists in the world.

      It's also disingenous to claim that all physicists have contributed the same, or had the same skills. No one has been at the cutting edge of physics for so long or over such a wide range of topics. We're still working on what he couldn't solve (even the ground work for string theory was his).

      Serioulsy, check out the article. The author expresses an opinion, and goes on to chronicle why he believes so (including the opinion of other physicists and historians).

      I agree with the general sentiment (physicists being lauded as great when they're actually more average, I would have picked Hawking as an actual example as opposed to Einstein, that's all). Other than Newton, Einstein is probably the only person who deserves to be on the highest pedestal in physics, and it's not clear who else might even be close. This doesn't mean that they had to do everything themselves -- and of course they benefitted from a world of thinkers. I don't see how this means they couldn't still be the greatest, however.

    19. Re:Einstein hated? by Pchelka · · Score: 2, Informative

      I totally agree with parker9! Einstein's contributions to science were important, but people seem to think that he did his work completely alone and without building upon the work done by other noteworthy scientists. If you believe what you see in the popular media (I consider anything on PBS to be part of the popular media), Einstein invented ALL of physics. This is totally untrue!

      Most physicists, and anyone who has taken a college course in the history of science, realize that Einstein was not the only great physicist of the 19th and 20th century. What about Fermi, Bohr, Gamov, Bethe, Heisenberg, Meitner and Schroedinger to name a few? All of these people had a hand in developing quantum mechanics, which was just as revolutionary as Einstein's theory of relativity.

      It was Otto Hahn who received the 1944 Nobel Prize in Chemistry for discovering nuclear fission of heavy nuclei, not Albert Einstein. However, if you ask any person on the street, they would probably attribute this discovery to Einstein (assuming they know what nuclear fission is!) as well as the development of quantum mechanics.

      I doubt that Einstein would appreciate being called "the opera singer super model brain surgeon sports star." The things I have read about Einstein suggest that while he was very opinionated (what scientist isn't) he was also quite humble and gave credit to other scientists where credit was due. Einstein just happened to come along at the right time, when the groundwork for scientific revolution in many areas of physics had been gradually laid out throughout the 19th century. Einstein's greatest contributions were not his original ideas, but the novel way he was able to put together the work of those who came before him.

      The nature of science has changed considerably since Einstein did his theoretical work. There still are a few theorists who work mostly on their own, sitting at a desk with a piece of paper and a pencil, thinking deep thoughts. There are also still a few experimental physicists (mainly condensed matter) who do meaningful laboratory work in small collaborations with only a few people. However, most scientists today cannot do their work without massive computing power or huge experiments that involve collaborating with large groups of other scientists. Take a look at the how the lengths of physics Ph.D. theses have changed over the last 50 years. In our library, many of the Ph.D. theses from the 60s and 70s are less than 100 pages long. My Ph.D. thesis was a whopping 200 pages, and many other recent theses are of similar length.

      I don't think there will ever be another scientist like Einstein (or Newton or Galileo for that matter) who can single-handedly change the way we think about the universe with his or her research. The problems scientists are studying today are so big that one person cannot possibly hope to solve them all alone. Expecting every scientist to be an "Einstein" is extremely insulting, since there are so many people who are brilliant in their own way.

      I don't want to be an "Einstein" anyway - he had bad hair and no fashion sense! His personal life was pretty messed up too.

    20. Re:Einstein hated? by parker9 · · Score: 1

      i did check out the article...

      when did i claim all physicists contributed the same? most physicists suck. really, they do.

      while i might agree that he laid the ground work for strings (or whatever the 'final' theory might be) through the ideas of invariants, it's not like these things hadn't/won't have been discovered. for example, Newton invented calculus, but Leibniz was able to do it 20 years later, independently. science, especially physics, does this all the time- two (or more) independent teams find the same answer. that is, new ideas come from the work previous to it.

      you must be joking about who could close to Einstein. take Maxwell- he took the work of others, postulated his own equation and was able to write down the classical equations of electromagnetism. the equations which really has the most important effect on the macroscopic scale. in fact, without his equations (which contain special relativity in), Einstein wouldn't have a leg to stand on. what about Boltzman and the formulation of the three laws of statistical mechanics. these two theories combined have more direct effect on your life and it's quality than anything Einstein ever did.

      oh, you want contemporary? Dirac was able to predict the existence of anti-matter long before anyone could create/measure it. his equation (which included quantum mechanics and relativity) is what really describes the energy levels of atoms. as for cutting edge/breadth of work, Feynman was remarkable- nuclear, computation, statical mechanics (pick up is book on that- it's gorgeous), Feynman diagrams, path integrals, etc.. the quantity and quality rivals, if not surpasses Einstein.

      it's precisely the statement " no one has been at the cutting edge of physics for so long or over such a wide range of topics" which drive physicists to moan. look, he was great. there are others who were/are just as great. it's because the media had to explain the atomic bomb and E=mc^2 did that (sort of) and therefore Einstein became more.

    21. Re:Einstein hated? by redwards · · Score: 1

      Actually, Newton's "I have stood on the shoulders of giants" comment was a notorious slam. It was written in a letter to one Robert Hooke, who accused Newton of stealing his ideas and was, perhaps most notably with reference to this comment, extremely short of stature.

    22. Re:Einstein hated? by renoX · · Score: 1

      Sorry but I disagree with you: while Einstein contribution on SR and QM were 'in the air' in 1907, GR is really his masterpiece and he made it *alone*!

      Except from Grossman teaching him the needed mathmatics for GR, but we're talking about physics here.

      He was such in advance with GR that other physicist didn't understood/use his results for years!

    23. Re:Einstein hated? by Quino · · Score: 1

      OK, fair enough but let's focus on the reason why Einstein is considered "great". He contributed (and launched entire fields of study in some cases) on the smallest (QM) to the largest scales (cosmology), and changed the foundations of physics by increasing our understanding of basic concepts like time and space. That's simply not a claim that any other physicist can come close to making (arguably since Newton).

      I see it this way, before Einstein (and after Newton), we gradually, systematically and slowly added to our knowledge and understanding. Along comes Einstein and shows that the most basic of assumptions used by everyone to build up on physics were wrong, and then uses his insights to also push out the frontiers of science on a scale and scope since umatched. After Einstein's push, we've gone back to gradually and systematically (and slowly!) adding to our knowledge of nature.

      That's a pretty big deal!

      I would actually argue that the coverage regarding the bomb hurt Einstein in the eyes of science geeks (generally speaking), as it has obscured everything else he's done. I myself only "knew" that Einstein was famous for relativity until I read more and understood the scope of what he did. I'd argue that the entirety of the repercussions of time not being absolute and varying with speed, gravity, etc. is not only seriously weird but is much more important than the first "practical" outcomes of the nuclear bomb or nuclear power (as important as those are).

      PS

      I'm a big fan of Feynman myself, aside from his technical credentials I think it also takes a special kind of genius to explain things so eloquently! But, he's added to the pile of knowledge -- not shifted the basic principles of physics (time and space is pretty far-reaching after all!). I'm not even sure he was as prolific as Einstein, in a "minor" discovery to "minor" discovery comparison. Not meant to put down people much much smarter than I could ever hope to be, but I can't think of something more important (fundamental) than what Einstein did that can be attributed to another person (again, except for Newton). The smartest and most famous of physicists compare to Einstein's "minor" works only (which he had plenty of) IMHO and therefore he does stand alone and unchallenged.

    24. Re:Einstein hated? by kEnder242 · · Score: 1

      very well put, If only I had mod points.

      About time somebody mentioned Lorentz.

      --
      my associative arrays can kick your hash - TCL
    25. Re:Einstein hated? by parker9 · · Score: 2

      launched QM? i think Planck would disagree. he was the one who first postulated that photons came in discrete (i.e. quantum) frequencies. he didn't say why, but it did explain experimental facts and the clear failure of Maxwell's equations. what Einstein did was to accept the quantization and showed it explained the photoelectric effect. suddenly Planck's conjecture seemed to be more than just conjecture.

      as for cosmology, yes, he replaced Newtons framework with relativity. but relativity was already contained within Maxwell's equations. he was the one that saw that. once that is explained, the rest 'falls out' (excuse the pun). once he had special relativity (which deals w/ reference frames not accelerating- i.e. inertial), it was clear there had to be general relativity (i.e. non-inertial reference frames). again, his great insight was that acceleration and gravitation was the same thing (something that every freshmen in physic courses assume when they write down F=ma and then say F=G m M /r^2- there is no reason to assume the two "m"'s are the same).

      Einstein didn't show that the 'basic assumptions' were wrong. he gave a different interpretation of what the theories were saying. He didn't throw away anything. you can derive Netwon from relativity by going to the correct limits.

      once again, i'm not dishing Einstein in any respect. his insights were absolutely fabulous. at the same time, if it wasn't him, it would have been another (or others).

  14. having taken quantum mechanics courses... by eobanb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ...I can certainly appreciate Einstein's sheer genius, particularly when it came to relativity. It was Einstein who postulated that, essentially, absolutely everything was relative. You hear all the examples about going around the sun in a spaceship really fast, or the twins paradox, but it doesn't really just stop there. There are all kinds of weird things that happen when you go really fast; for example, your size changes. If I'm driving my car really really fast (and of course, we're talking close to the speed of light), my vehicle actually becomes shorter. Then as I slow down, it stretches out again. At the beginning of the 20th century, no doubt what a lot of Einstein proposed sounded like sheer madness.

    In his later years, though, Einstein became increasingly conservative and very resistant to the idea of uncertainty, formulated by Bohr and Heisenberg. Einstein, from a generation of research before these two scientists, was still a determinist; he believed that you could not only discover both the position and velocity (speed and direction) of a particle, but that if you knew all such properties of all particles, you could accurately predict the state of things far in the future. I became disappointed with Einstein when I learned that, in the late 30s and 40s, even when faced with overwhelming evidence to support the ontic and epistemic uncertainty principles, Einstein tried lots of clever thought experiments to prove them wrong, even though they all relied on knowing more than one mutually incompatible property at once. I think Einstein contributed a lot, but he also made a lot of mistakes later in his life.

    --

    Take off every sig. For great justice.

    1. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Skynet · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Whether they were mistakes or not, Einstein became sort of the sounding board for developments in theoretical physics. So whether he "agreed" with the ideas posed by quantum physics or not, he certainly helped drive research along with his constant challenges of other scientist's work.

      Plus, it's interesting to note that alot of his "mistakes", like the cosmological constant, are gaining support once again with developments derived out of superstring theory like extra dimensions and dark matter/energy.

      --
      Execute? [Y/N] _
    2. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by chrissywallace · · Score: 0

      Einstein did not say "absolutely everything is relative". If that was true the universe wouldnt exist, such generalisations are the biggest problem in the general populous understanding Einsteins theories (WHAT THIS ARTICLE IS ABOUT). For reference, some things are relative, some things are invariant, a lot of important physical things are invariant. A better name for Einsteins theory would be "Invariance theory".

    3. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by norminator · · Score: 1

      If I'm driving my car really really fast (and of course, we're talking close to the speed of light), my vehicle actually becomes shorter

      What really freaked me out is the fact that since you're in the car, the car doesn't seem shorter to you (your velocity relative to the car is zero), but to you and the car, the rest of the universe is moving really fast, so the rest of the universe gets shorter. From what I understand, it's not just about apperaing smaller, it's actually becoming smaller... so you and your car are smaller according to the universe, and the universe is smaller according to you and the car.

      Crazy stuff, that's why I went into electronics instead of Quantum Physics, I guess

    4. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Telastyn · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "God does not play dice."

      Perhaps his adherance to faith led to such views? Uncertainty I can imagine would put a large dent in the concept of an omniscient Lord.

    5. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Agilis · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Everyone's free to believe what they believe and to try to prove it to the opposition. Heck, isn't that the spirit of peer review?

      Science is all about changing the theory if something comes up in nature that's not properly predicted, so I believe that there is still alot of value in having one of the greatest minds around throw all of his ability at trying to find flaws in quantum mechanics, and utterly failing to do so.

      He may not have been right in not believing in the truth of quantum mechanics, but who else could come up with those 'clever thought experiments' that could have potentially been the 1 case the breaks the theory?

    6. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      > Perhaps his adherance to faith led to such views? Uncertainty I can imagine would put a large dent in
      > the concept of an omniscient Lord.

      Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with what Einstein actually believed. He was a deist, not a strict religious individual. He did not believe in a personal god, and was, with his famous dice comment, not illucidating some religious belief, but rather insisting that he felt the universe to be deterministic in nature.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by jxyama · · Score: 1

      the most amazing aspect of relativity, to me, was the fact einstein had the "guts" to challenge newton's laws of physics. he realized that the maxwell's equations were "relativistic" while newton's laws were not. instead of patching up the maxwell's equations so that the speed of light wouldn't be invariant under all reference frames, he decided that it was newton's laws that needed to fixing...

    8. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      Wrong on both parts.

      First off, Einstein refuted that quote. While he may have been religious, it was apparantly closer to deism than judaism.

      Secondly, uncertainty doesn't rule out God -- it gives God a backdoor through which to influence the universe without having to do more than fix the dice. There are some physicissts who become MORE religious, not less, from their studies.

    9. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Corporate+Drone · · Score: 1
      "God does not play dice."

      Perhaps his adherance to faith led to such views? Uncertainty I can imagine would put a large dent in the concept of an omniscient Lord.

      It would? AFAIK, the uncertainty principle only points to our inability to ascertain the location and velocity of sub-atomic particles without affecting one or the other.

      so, an omniscient God wouldn't be subject to the same limitations that non-omniscient creatures are. Uncertainty, then, would seem to flow more naturally with a belief in a supreme power (or, conversely, in nihilism, but that's another story...)

      --
      mmm... yeah... You see, we're putting the cover sheets on all TPS reports now before they go out...
    10. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by sckeener · · Score: 1

      I think Einstein contributed a lot, but he also made a lot of mistakes later in his life.

      what I find interesting about Einstein is he married a radical woman that was as brilliant as himself only to dump her for a more traditional wife later in life.

      Radical to traditional in both scientific and private life....odd parallels

      --
      "Only one thing, is impossible for god: to find any sense in any copyright law on the planet." Mark Twain
    11. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by MenTaLguY · · Score: 1

      That happens to pretty much everyone to varying degrees as they get older, not just Einstein.

      I've been told there's a saying among physicists: the only reason new theories are accepted is because old physicists eventually die.

      --

      DNA just wants to be free...
    12. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Telastyn · · Score: 1

      Hrm, you are correct.

    13. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Telastyn · · Score: 1

      While another poster has indeed shown that I was incorrect on the first, you've misinterpreted the second.

      I did not say that uncertainty rules out God, simply that it makes the existance of God [or at least the standard omniscient/omnipotent God] less likely as it requires more and more conditions for the Theory of God [oh I'm going to get flamed for that one!] to jibe with scientific law.

      *shrug* but mayhaps I let my own faith cloud things too much...

    14. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Planesdragon · · Score: 1

      I did not say that uncertainty rules out God, simply that it makes the existance of God [or at least the standard omniscient/omnipotent God] less likely as it requires more and more conditions for the Theory of God [oh I'm going to get flamed for that one!] to jibe with scientific law.

      True enough -- the traditional infallible God is not supported by QM. OTOH, He's not supported by the bible, either.

      All-knowing, all-loving, and all-powerful does not necessarily make him infallible. However, a God unbound by the universe (i.e., the traditional Christian God-as-seperate-thing view) may be able to see the deterministic principles underlying QM.

      Not to mention that QM as an avenue to effect the newtonian world by non-newtonian beings who aren't necessearily God is nearly obvious, though wholly unscientific. (i.e., "if demons exist, how do they effect the world?" "through QM")

    15. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by global_diffusion · · Score: 1

      In his later years, though, Einstein became increasingly conservative and very resistant to the idea of uncertainty, formulated by Bohr and Heisenberg.

      Dude! Popular misconception. I'm not going to argue it here, but read The Shaky Game by Arthur Fine if you are interested.

    16. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "God does not play dice" was just someone's way of being pithy -- and paraphrasing Einstein, BTW, since he never made that exact quote (though he did say something similar). Myself and all the other atheists I know still invoke god as a rhetorical device to mean "the way the universe is" or some similar concept. Einstein did specifically believe in the Spinozan concept of God as the sum total of all the universe.

      He just didn't accept the Uncertainty Theory as it was, but moderated it later. He never accepted the notion that observation itself caused change, however (it all seems to come down to philosophical wrangling over the definition of "observe", is all. To dispel some of that idiotic Fritjof Capra "Wu Li Masters" mystical garbage, one explanation goes that measurement of an isolated effect as it relates to the rest of the "environment" (anything else, really) constitutes observation, and "entangles" it somehow with the environment. The problem being that you can't reliably get at the effect without relating it somehow to the environment -- sort of like relativity that way. At least, that's one of the theories, and the "somehow" is still not too clear.

    17. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by torako · · Score: 1

      Crazy stuff indeed. But what you are talking about doesn't even have anything to do with quantum physics. Once you get to know quantum physics, relativity looks a lot less crazy to you than it does now :)

    18. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by JianTian13 · · Score: 1

      ... Or maybe, just maybe, God didn't want to be bored? Maybe God likes surprises?

      Just a thought...

    19. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by 31415926535897 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here is the real quote from your paraphrase:

      "Quantum mechanics is very impressive. But an inner voice tells me that it is not yet the real thing. The theory yields a lot, but it hardly brings us any closer to the secret of the Old One. In any case I am convinced that He doesn't play dice."
      -Einstein

      I think this is one of the most misunderstood quotes. Einstein is saying that yes, the models we have for understanding QM are incredibly accurate, but he doesn't feel like the models we have derived are 'the answer.' He is saying that just because the best we can do to predict QM events is with a probabalistic model does not mean that God does not know what is going to happen to each subatomic particle.

      Also, on a side note, I feel that uncertainty is necessary for there to be a God. QM uncertainty is the physical means to a free will which allows us the ability to accept or reject God.

    20. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by norminator · · Score: 1

      But what you are talking about doesn't even have anything to do with quantum physics.

      Good Point. I guess that makes it obvious that I don't know anything about quantum physics, eh? How embarassing...

    21. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by MonkeyCookie · · Score: 1

      Einstein actually helped Physics along by doing that.

      By constantly hammering at a theory and trying to poke holes in it, you will either show it to be wrong or make it that much more solid. Either result is a benefit to science: we find out that we're wrong or we become more sure that we're right.

    22. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by complete+loony · · Score: 1

      Absolutely,
      If the universe were deterministic we would be nothing more than pre-programed machines following a clearly defined path. This does not mean that a God could not know the outcome, just that he has decided not to control it.

      --
      09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
    23. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by zsandoz · · Score: 1

      yea one of my favorite Einstein terms is "spooky action at a distance" referring to the work of schroedinger (sp?) and his wave mechanics.. but nowadays that view is the most consistent with applied quantum mechanics, so yeah Einstein wasn't perfect but he was far from opposed to this view, just a healthy skeptical of it
      as far as "God does not play dice with the universe" it is not in reference to any particular theory, but rather the methods of modern statistical mechanics. i'm inclined to agree with Mr. Einstein because stat mech is mostly a tool, not a physical law, and is therefore limited as a tool in science.
      people seem to overemphasize Einstein's belief in God, because Einstein claimed to believe in Spinoza's God, which if anyone is familiar with this, is more of a secular view of God. in fact, Spinoza was excommunicated from the Jewish community of his time for his "heretical" views
      So to Einstein God was just the concepts behind the workings of the universe. He didn't believe that the universe works entirely by chance, although at our level of observation it appears to work that way - and it is probably the most useful way of looking at things
      hence the search for a Grand Unified Theory of Everything continues :) It's pretty clear that Einstein saw things entirely different than other scientists of his time, and that is why he was so brilliant.

    24. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Listen+Up · · Score: 1

      "Also, on a side note, I feel that uncertainty is necessary for there to be a God. QM uncertainty is the physical means to a free will which allows us the ability to accept or reject God."

      Once again proving that most of the people in world are, in the end, as dumb as a brick. Here is a clue: The universe is not ruled by mysticism/make-believe. Religion and any concept of a god is completely make-believe invented by humans for humans. Physics is reality.

    25. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once again proving that most of the people in world are, in the end, as dumb as a brick.

      Nice of you to introduce the purpose of your post right in the first sentence. At first I thought you were responding to the poster above, until I realised you were stating an unproven possibility as unalterable fact.

    26. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does having our behavior controlled by random, nondeterministic physical processes give us any more "free will" or "ability to accept or reject God" than deterministic laws of physics? Is it really free will to have our decisions determined by whether an electron jumps energy levels? We can't control the microscopic physics that gives rise to our cognition in a quantum universe any more than in a classical universe.

    27. Re:having taken quantum mechanics courses... by smallpaul · · Score: 1

      If thinking beings are probabalistic rather than deterministic automatons they are still automatons. Physics does not care.

  15. Curl oneliner by Carthag · · Score: 4, Informative

    This works if your browser doesn't insert spaces after each line. Otherwise you'll have to remove them by hand. If I remember correctly it's a couple hundred megs.

    curl -f "http://a768.g.akamai.net/5/768/142/3f9e\
    9589/1a 1a1afb6ae049ae214fc034aad839a9198\
    5ea187bea5786f 362d841a61948bf2688f01f87fb\
    6fdf0e7ceb61c22186fb /nova_eu_30[12-14]c[01-\
    08]_mp4_300.mov" -O

    The joys of curl | strings :)

    1. Re:Curl oneliner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      can you help us out with the full-screen versions, too?

    2. Re:Curl oneliner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this url doesn't work for me, it returns a 404.
      does it work for anyone else?

    3. Re:Curl oneliner by Carthag · · Score: 1

      I just re-tested it and it still works for me. To the other AC: I'm sorry, I can't get anything from the fullscreen .mov, they might have fiddled with the settings. That said, the one I posted is rather nice quality. -Carthag

    4. Re:Curl oneliner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right, I couldn't get it either. Thanks though.

    5. Re:Curl oneliner by SmittyTheBold · · Score: 1

      I get an HTTP 400 error when using the Windows version of curl. Odd.

      What was your source for this so I could try alternate methods?

      --
      ± 29 dB
    6. Re:Curl oneliner by Carthag · · Score: 1

      It could be that the windows commandline does not support backslashes before lineshifts as a way of continuing the line. Try removing both, so it's one long line with no backslashes.

    7. Re:Curl oneliner by SmittyTheBold · · Score: 1

      I actually did try that; but it didn't work. Oh well.

      --
      ± 29 dB
  16. Another Einstein Far Side by exhilaration · · Score: 1

    This Far Side is also pretty good - "Einstein discovers that time is actually money"

  17. What he did? let me start with name.. by E+IS+mC(Square) · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Well, he gave me my nickname, for one!

  18. even non-geeks appreciate him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    For example, this on-air quote:

    "There are no geniuses [among coaches] in the National Football League. A genius is someone like Norman Einstein."

    - ESPN commentator Joe Theismann

  19. Einstein Quotes by mabu · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Here are some Einstein quotes from Wisdomtoday.com - a daily quote e-mail:

    Strange is our situation here on earth. Each of us comes for a short visit, not knowing why, yet sometimes seeming to divine a purpose. From the standpoint of daily life, however, there is one thing we do know: that man is here for the sake of other men - above all for those upon whose smiles and well-being our own happiness depends.
    - Albert Einstein

    I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own - a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
    - Albert Einstein

    As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
    - Albert Einstein

    Make things as simple as possible, but no simpler.
    - Albert Einstein

    Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal.
    - Albert Einstein

    The significant problems we face can not be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them.
    - Einstein

    It is easier to denature plutonium than to denature the evil spirit of man.
    - Albert Einstein

    Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from that of their social environment.
    - Albert Einstein

    The important thing is not to stop questioning.
    - Albert Einstein

    1. Re:Einstein Quotes by Haydn+Fenton · · Score: 1

      I gotta say my favourite Einstein quote, and no doubt in my top 10, which you haven't posted, is "The only thing that inteferes with my learning is my education". So true, it really sucks being too smart for what your supposed to be at your age and school/college justs slows you down, but hey.

    2. Re:Einstein Quotes by mabu · · Score: 1

      My favorite quote, which I omitted because it's probably his most common quote: "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."

    3. Re:Einstein Quotes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Two things are infinite: The universe and human stupidity - and I'm not sure about the universe.
      - Albert Einstein

    4. Re:Einstein Quotes by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      Make things as simple as possible, but no simpler.

      I think the actual quote is "Everything should be as simple as possible, but not simpler." Anyway, it's a great quote and i keep it in mind every time i'm designing something.

      Einstein was a man illuminated on many levels, IMHO.

    5. Re:Einstein Quotes by Listen+Up · · Score: 1

      "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality.
      - Albert Einstein"

      This quote is often misunderstood and taken out of context. It is as much as statement that the universe exists mathematically, but mathematics itself is both empirical and unempirical.

    6. Re:Einstein Quotes by JohnnyCannuk · · Score: 1

      "Imagination is more important than knowledge"

      --
      Never by hatred has hatred been appeased, only by kindness - the Buddha
  20. You're too hard on Einstein! by 2nd+Post! · · Score: 2, Interesting

    What if he were right and one of his clever though experiements did prove them wrong?

    In his time he couldn't KNOW he was right or wrong, he just hoped he was right.

    It's only in hindsight can you say, "he also made a lot of mistakes later in his life," but if you were there, then, you would STILL be dwarfed, I think, by his genius. It's only unfortunate that his genius didn't extend to embrace QM, but he honestly thought they were wrong, too.

    1. Re:You're too hard on Einstein! by Quino · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I Agree.

      according to:

      http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/genius/

      "Einstein's work anchors the most shocking idea in twentieth century physics: we live in a quantum universe, one built out of tiny, discrete chunks of energy and matter."

      "Before anyone else, Einstein recognizes the essential dualism in nature, the co-existence of particles and waves at the level of quanta. In 1911 he declares resolving the quantum issue to be the central problem of physics."

      He disliked the theory, he didn't disbelieve it -- it was his search for a more fundamental theory that led him to the ground work that string theory is based on. Basically, unless someone can prove that string theories are wrong (or that there will never be a grand unified theory), you can't really say Einstein was "wrong" about quantum mechanics. For him to be wrong, QM would have to be the final and most fundamental explanation of our universe -- he felt there was more underneath that could explain QM (like the grand unified theory). AFAIK that's still the "cutting edge" physicists are working on still today.

      Fascinating article, btw. Apparently, the questions he couldn't answer still define to this day the cutting edge of physics. That, and the fact that no other physicist has had as long a ride in the cutting edge is why Einstein is remembered as the greatest physicist since Newton.

  21. General Theory of Relativity in two lines by fromme · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Space tells matter how to move. Matter tells space how to curve.

    The best definition I've found till date. If you can wrap your head around that, you're in the clear!

    1. Re:General Theory of Relativity in two lines by savagedome · · Score: 1

      If you can wrap your head around that

      Not enough space to wrap it though.

    2. Re:General Theory of Relativity in two lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it conveniently ignores energy (as well as time).

    3. Re:General Theory of Relativity in two lines by sharkey · · Score: 2, Funny
      Space tells matter how to move. Matter tells space how to curve.

      And the Heart of Gold tells space to get bent.

      --

      --
      "Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
    4. Re:General Theory of Relativity in two lines by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably attrib. to John Wheeler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Archibald_Wheele r

      His "A Journey Into Gravity and Spacetime" is one of the great science books for the layman.

  22. Invariance and Statistics by radtea · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From the article:

    Abraham Pais, a physicist who wrote what is generally regarded as the definitive scientific biography of Einstein, said of his subject that there are two things at which he was "better than anyone before or after him; he knew how to invent invariance principles and how to make use of statistical fluctuations."

    This is a great one-line summary of what made Einstein an outstanding physicist.

    The use of invariance principles is still finding its way slowly into other subjects. Jaynes' work on probability is an excellent example of the power of invariance principles--he derives all of probability theory from a few basic postulates, including the condition that conclusions be invariant under transformations in the path used to reach them.

    --Tom

    --
    Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
  23. Re:Read his definitive work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Parent is troll, the Amazon link he posts goes to the book "What It Takes To Run Slashdot" by CmdrTaco. It's not Einstein related.

  24. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  25. Biblical proportions by Dorsai65 · · Score: 3, Funny

    And God said "sqrt(e/m)=c" - and there was light.

    --
    --- Asking inconvenient questions for over 30 years...
    1. Re:Biblical proportions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      About your sig... for the same reason, you are not eating your girlfriend....oh wait

    2. Re:Biblical proportions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Photons have no mass. E=mc^2 doesn't apply to light.

    3. Re:Biblical proportions by spuzzzzzzz · · Score: 1

      What version of gcc is He using?

      Doesn't matter, it's an invalid lvalue anyway. Try c=sqrt(e/m) and you might get somewhere.

      --

      Don't you hate meta-sigs?
    4. Re:Biblical proportions by entrigant · · Score: 1

      Interesting thing to say considering the article is about people who don't understand Einstein's contributions... Light is simply energy, it is the E part of this equation. This equation tells you how much energy a given amount of mass contains if you were to convert all of the mass to energy. On the flipside, you can have m = E/c^2. This tells you how much mass you'd have if you converted all of a given amount of energy (E) to mass. It is accepted that such a thing can be done. This equation is all about how matter and energy relate, and light, being a form of energy, is very relevent.

  26. Sorry, but... by dsci · · Score: 2, Informative

    I haven't read the book you mention, but I did catch PART of the Nova on PBS.

    IMHO, it was overproduced drek. It was absolutely the worst NOVA I've ever seen. Dumbed down physics and cutesy graphics and music. I had to turn it off, I just could not take it. Certainly not of the standard I've come to expect from Nova.

    I had a string theorist on my Thesis Committee in grad school, and he asked some pretty interesting questions during my Oral Exam. It's a fascinating field, but if you have to dumb it down that far to make it popular and interesting (which I don't believe), save it for those who care to listen.

    That said, it's hard for me to take Brian Greene very seriously. But, I bet he's better at math than me, and not by just a little bit. ;)

    --
    Computational Chemistry products and services.
    1. Re:Sorry, but... by xtermin8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think they do have to dumb down modern physics that much. I bet most people watched it for the cutesy graphics and snob factor than to really learn anything about string theory. You quote the Simpsons in your sig- How do you think Matt Groening would try to present String Theory? How many would watch the Simpsons if he didn't dress his clever cynical insights with juvenile potty humor?

    2. Re:Sorry, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a watcher of Nova since it began in the 80's, I have to say that The Elegant Universe is one of the very BEST of the series. Instead of trying to wrap everything up in 1 or 2 hours, Nova gave this one the 3 hours it deserved. True, Greene repeats himself at the beginning of hours 2 and 3 but that was forced on him in case the whole 3 hours could not be aired consecutively.

      For the layperson, advanced physics is both daunting and boring. The "cutsey graphics" you demean are required to do what Nova is designed to do--bring science to the masses. The series did what it was intended to do and did it very well. Without this series, only the elite would still know what string theory even is. Is that what you're advocating; elitism for science? In this day & age of government-imposed standardized testing that concentrates only on math and vocabulary, one would hope not.

    3. Re:Sorry, but... by ViolentGreen · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I think they do have to dumb down modern physics that much

      Well if they had gone through a bunch of calculations, I would have gotten nothing out of it and probably wouldn't have spent more than 5 minutes on it. This program was not meant to explain string theory to physicists; it was targeted at people who have a basic knowledge of physics or less. The intention was not to show how the theory was formed but to give an overview of it.

      --
      Not everything is analogous to cars. Car analogies rarely work.
  27. Note: "Herb" actually refers to Hermann Minkowski. by stkpogo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Note: "Herb" actually refers to Hermann Minkowski. (And "Izzy" and "Ari" are, of course, Isaac Newton and Aristotle.)
    http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/txt/al.html

  28. Very good, but by wurp · · Score: 1

    It's space-time, not space.

    1. Re:Very good, but by antispam_ben · · Score: 1

      It's space-time, not space.

      Space-time is redundant.

      --
      Tag lost or not installed.
  29. s/ameliorate/alleviate/ by pkhuong · · Score: 1

    If you're going to use fancy words, at least use the greater precision doing so gives you.

    --
    Try Corewar @ www.koth.org - rec.games.corewar
    1. Re:s/ameliorate/alleviate/ by NitsujTPU · · Score: 1

      Eh, I feel that I did .

  30. Patent Clerk?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny
    But wait, Einstein started out as a patent clerk. Aren't we supposed to hate him for that?

    I'm so confused......

    1. Re:Patent Clerk?!? by NardofDoom · · Score: 1

      Yes, but he repented, so it's cool.

      --
      You have two hands and one brain, so always code twice as much as you think!
    2. Re:Patent Clerk?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Yes, but he repented, so it's cool.

      Maybe so, but how do you think a patent clerk comes up with so many cool ideas... ;-)

    3. Re:Patent Clerk?!? by tatsu69 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but he wasn't a U.S. patent clerk.

    4. Re:Patent Clerk?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you see any stupid patents that slipped through him?

      If all US patent clerks were half as smart as he was we would't have any news on ./ about patents.

  31. Newton's bucket by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    Is not it strange that, despite these incredibly complex equations of relativity/string/etc. theories, still so apparently conceptually simple (?) things as the Newton's bucket are not understood?

    It might make some wonder what really these rocket scientists know, behind their rocket science math, used to frighten laymen ;)

    Any explanations?

    1. Re:Newton's bucket by krysith · · Score: 1

      The site you linked had the following statement: "There is a proposal to test experimentally whether frame dragging occurs. This involves using the rotating earth as the massive body and putting a satellite into orbit with a gyroscope which keeps it pointing in a fixed direction. Although the Earth would only have a tiny frame dragging effect it is close to the limits of present day experiment to detect the extremely small precession of the gyroscope which should be caused. So far no mission to try this experiment has been approved."

      This is incorrect. This mission is currently running.

      I suggest you begin your search here here:

    2. Re:Newton's bucket by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only running, but has observed frame dragging.

    3. Re:Newton's bucket by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, but what are the concluding hypotheses? Are they very complex or can they be explain somewhat simplier?

  32. Small Error by Quasiben · · Score: 1

    "a black body could emit radiation only at discrete frequencies"

    I think, black bodies can emit radiation at all frequencies. However, Planck purposed that the radiation does so in a discrete fashion. Recall his formula E=nhv (h = 6.626x10^-34 J s) (v (nu) = the frequency) (n is a postive integer). Notice that energy can increase either with v (nu) continously or discretely with n. The electromagnetic spectrum is continous. (For all intents and purposes I am ignoring the debate of whether the world is actually continous. Mathematicians need not quible.)

    1. Re:Small Error by superstick58 · · Score: 2, Informative
      Perhaps they were referring to the discrete energy levels in an atom. An atom emits a photon when an electron falls from a higher energy level to a lower one. The frequency of the photon is determined by the bandgap energy (E in your equation) of the atom for the transition of the electron. Each type of element has only certain discrete bandgaps thus it can only produce certain discrete wavelengths. This is how you explain the various spectra of different elements.

      Granted if you examine all elements you may be able to discover a continuous variation of wavelengths. However, when examining INDIVIDUAL elements it is clear that only discrete wavelengths may be produced.

      On a side note, some (negligible)variance in the wavelengths of a spectrum can occur due to the uncertainty of the energy levels, and other phenomenon such as the doppler effect(electron is moving fast when it releases an electron in the direction of motion thus the frequency is increased).

    2. Re:Small Error by parker9 · · Score: 1

      it's the frequency that's quantized. energy is simply h v in your notation. you're over counting n (the number of modes).

  33. Recommended reading.. by mabu · · Score: 4, Informative

    For laypeople, I think the best book introducing Einstein's theories in an understandable way is Relativity Visualized by L. Epstein.

  34. Re:mod parent down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    what? thats a fucking shit comment. it's not even close to being midly informative... lucky I just got mod points and modded you a troll.

  35. Some highlights from my annus mirabilis.... by mogrify · · Score: 3, Funny

    ate a pound of pasta in one sitting

    avoided every single episode of Fear Factor

    bowled a 150 game

    watched the entire Godfather trilogy, pausing only to switch discs

    obeyed nearly all traffic laws

    finally cleaned out the laundry room

    played Civ II for 13 hours straight

    washed the car

    --
    perl -e 'foreach(values %SIG){$_="IGNORE";}while(){}'
    1. Re:Some highlights from my annus mirabilis.... by SoupGuru · · Score: 1

      I sometimes wonder what great things I could have accomplished had I not spent countless hours playing Civ II.

      --
      What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
  36. That's cause old people are stupid by selfdiscipline · · Score: 1

    I'm 23, and already I can see my mind slipping away into senility.
    Dementia isn't only about short-term memory loss, it's about a general stagnation in thinking. We try and cram more into our existing architectures of thought, and explain things in terms of our established beliefs in stead of trying to deduce structures from raw data. Eventually the world moves on, and our reality becomes obsolete. Anything that doesn't fit with the daily routine doesn't get remembered, and memories of the daily routine could be today, yesterday, or 5 years ago.
    I can't wait to have kids so that I can know what real intelligence is again.

    --


    -------
    Incite and flee.
    1. Re:That's cause old people are stupid by snorklewacker · · Score: 1

      > I'm 23, and already I can see my mind slipping away into senility.

      I'm 32, and I'm definitely not as sharp as I once was, but I have a more pedestrian explanation: lack of exercise. Your mind is a whole lot sharper when you're in shape, so if you're not exercising, you're getting dumber as well as weaker.

      As for the "babies are geniuses and we're all stupid in comparison" stuff, it's really not quite as clear cut as that. They have a bit of "bootstrap" programming that's pretty amazing in terms of learning languages and some other skills, but beyond that, it really pales next to the higher-order abstract analysis we're able to do as adults. Don't sell yourself short -- dementia is NOT a natural part of aging.

      --
      I am no longer wasting my time with slashdot
  37. Einstein as a publicity tool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    As a physicist who is currently doing experiments on using the Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen scheme for quantum cryptography, I have the upmost respect for Mr. Einstien. While his contribution to physics is significant, I think the public's perception of the importance of his work may be overblown. The development of quantum mechanics is a large scale effort by a lot of people over a long period of time, and I think even without Einstein, most of those ideas would have developed anyways because they are the inevitable conclusions from what scientists were observing at that time. However, Einstein can grab the public's attention like no other physicist in modern time is able to achieve. Try teaching kids about Lorentz's relativity or Schrodinger's quantum mechanics. They'd rather hear about Einstein! I am happy to see that people are excited about something related to physics, but at the same time, maybe people will be less intimidated if they know that you don't have to be Einstein to contribute to our understanding of physics, just as you don't have to be Bill Gates to influence what technology will bring us next.

  38. thats because by Striker770S · · Score: 3, Insightful

    most people still do not understand exactly what it was he did thats because the average person has the thought capacity of a 4th grader. I mean hell, many people still believe the world was created around 6000 years ago on a given sunday by some guy. That kills me.

    --
    I thought what I'd do was, I'd pretend I was one of those deaf-mutes. - Catcher in the Rye
    1. Re:thats because by MXK · · Score: 1

      Some of us think it was a girl!

    2. Re:thats because by Dan+East · · Score: 1

      I know I'm responding to nothing more than flame bait (or off topic, take your pick) but what does intelligence have to do with beliefs?

      Also, do you really believe that the average person's mental aptitude peaks when they are 9 years old? You state that as if it were a fact. Do you have any references to that effect?

      Dan East

      --
      Better known as 318230.
  39. Don't forget Poincaré by cy_a253 · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The french mathematician Henri Poincaré anticipated Einstein by a full 8 years with his 1897 "The Relativity of Space" paper.

    http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosop hy/works/fr/poincare.htm

    What he describes in his paper is quite similar to the Special Relativity of Einstein, although he does not explain it as clearly and as completely as Einstein does. But why history keeps him the shadow I'll never understand.

    1. Re:Don't forget Poincaré by Jonathan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well, you'll probably get some flack from right-wingers for linking to a Marxist site, but whatever the politics Poincare certainly deserves some recognition. But still, much like Alfred Wallace, who discovered natural selection independently of Darwin but didn't want it to apply to humans, Poincare didn't really recognize how relativity changed everything. An in any case, what Poincare discovered was really only a form of Special Relativity. It was General Relativity which really made Einstein famous.

    2. Re:Don't forget Poincaré by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      And Poincare's discovery and Einstein's special theory of relativity really just rehash the Lorentz-Fitzgerald transformation to more properties than just an object's length. While General Relativity is an open question, Special relativity is useful in everything from nuclear power to CRT/vacuum tube/X-ray machine design

    3. Re:Don't forget Poincaré by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      and you can derive at least 2 of maxwell's equations from S.R./L.R./P if you're clever (which I'm not but I have textbooks that do so)

    4. Re:Don't forget Poincaré by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      What about Bernhard Riemann? A hundred years before Einstein, he laid out the entire field of relativistic geometry in a single, brilliantly short and lucid paper. Again, his only gap seems to be that he didn't publicize, nor did he translate it to the 'real world'.

      Given Einstein's lack of aptitude for maths (Minkowski was his maths teacher and had told him he 'would not come to anything'), would he have been able to come up with Relativity if Riemann hadn't written 'On The Hypotheses that lie at the Fundamentals of Geometry' long years ago?

    5. Re:Don't forget Poincaré by radtea · · Score: 4, Informative


      David Bohm's excellent primer, "Special Relativity" (available in Dover paperback) gives a very good summary of the situation prior to Einstein's 1905 paper. Essentially, every result that Einstein's theory gave (including the famous E = mc**2, which was published by Heaviside in 1892!) had been arrived at previously by Poincare' and others as necessary consequences of a particular dynamical interpretation of Maxwell's electro-magentic theory.

      Einstein's revolution was the derivation of the same results via a kinematical restatement of mechanical laws. Dynamics deals with the causes of motion, kinematics with the description of motion. The "old" relativity assumed that there were real forces acting to squeeze matter so that rods got short and clocks ran slow. Einstein's relativity showed that the same results followed immediately from adopting a particular, consistent, description of motion based on two assumptions (the constancy of the speed of light and the invariance of the laws of nature under changes of velocity.)

      One of the consequences of Einstein's theory is that when we discovered matter that does not participate in electro-magentic interactions, such as neutrinos, we could confidently treat it using relativistic mechanics. The old relativity, in contrast, only applied to charged particles.

      It is a remarkable and still interesting fact that so much of what Einstein explained can be explained by alternative means within the context of Newtonian dynamics, although the explanations are much less general and much harder to understand.

      --Tom

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    6. Re:Don't forget Poincaré by Rick+BigNail · · Score: 1

      Well, SR is also useful in developing online games :)

  40. PBS is no good by Man+in+Spandex · · Score: 1

    Me Homer, I'm running from PBS

  41. Einstein a fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Says so here.

  42. Simpsons vs. Nova by dsci · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I think it is a matter of target audience. The Simpsons is on a major 'pop' broadcast network and specifically targets people for whom potty humor is (part of) the draw. Personally, I do like The Simpsons for it's subtlety.

    Nova, otoh, has set itself up as a cut above the 'for the masses' standard. I've watched that show since high school (early 80's), and I remember specifics from specific episodes. It was produced to be informative first, and if pop style entertainment was a goal at all, it was far down on the list.

    I've also witnessed what I believe to be a general degradation of Nova in this respect. This is just my opinion, mind you, but I think Nova is but a faint shadow of its former self.

    To put this into a broader perspective, I also happen to believe the 'making science fun' in the classroom is partially responsible for the overall degradation in science education here in the US. I've taught my classes without that maxim, and proudly achieved my (only) stated goal of actually making sure my students finished the semester with more knowledge than they had at the start.

    Iconoclastic, I know.

    --
    Computational Chemistry products and services.
  43. Read Einstein himself! by turboalberta · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have found out that reading the original papers of Einstein elucidates a lot more than the whole of literature that's been wasted on the subject to introduce people to the ideas. Start with "Relativity : The Special and the General Theory" which is an introduction for everybody who followed math in highschool a little decently. Then read "The principle of relativity" published by Dover. You can buy both for $14.36 on amazon. I found those very understandable and I'm certainly no math wizard.

    Einstein was a marvellous educator and his writing on the subject is way better than almost anybody else (except for Feynmann maybe).

    --
    I sometimes think that God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability. -- Oscar Wilde
  44. Mod parent up - +1, accuracy. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    n/t

  45. sciscoop too by apsmith · · Score: 2, Informative

    We attempted to elucidate Einstein's miracle year last week, but I have to admit the Economist did a nice job on this article.

    --

    Energy: time to change the picture.

  46. Attribution by RedWizzard · · Score: 4, Informative

    It appears to come from here.

  47. Mod Parent UP by krysith · · Score: 1

    I highly agree! Einstein was rare among scientists in that he could clearly explain his ideas to a lay audience. I have read a number of books on relativity but NOBODY does a better job of explaining it than the man himself. Think about it - this guy had to sell people on his idea long before it was fully accepted by the scientific community.

  48. Mythos inside and outside physics... by jpflip · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First off, I'm a physics grad student with nothing but the utmost respect for Einstein's work, and I make use of it's consequences frequently. He did some of the most beautiful stuff in the history of physics. Nonetheless, I think that his mythos may have arguably had a detrimental effect on theoretical physics and its public perception.

    When asked what he would have thought if solar eclipse had not confirmed general relativity, Einstein famously responded something like he "would have been sorry for the dear Lord - the theory is correct!". The general picture people have is that Einstein sat in a room, thought really hard, and figured out how the world was supposed to be without ever needing to go out and LOOK at it. This idea has inspired generations of young physicists to think that the "real" route to truth about the world is mathematical insight. Over the ensuing century, however, this has essentially never been the case - the biggest breakthroughs generally come when an experiment sees something weird (i.e. discovers new particles or behaviors) and a theorist comes up with a mathematical picture that makes all the weird observations fit together. Experiments are still important - it's not just Plato sitting in his cave imagining how the world ought to be. Beautiful mathematical models of fundamental physics very frequently turn out to be experimentally wrong!

    Outside of physics, the public image of Einstein has arguably breathed life into the legions of crackpots who think they know the theory of everything, claim that quantum mechanics is "obviously" wrong, etc. Everyone learns in school that Einstein was terrible at mathematics growing up and that he did his best work as a patent clerk, not at a university. Many people are encouraged by this, thinking that the best work comes from "outside the system" and need not involve a thorough understanding of the details of current science.

    Unfortunately, this is not true. Einstein was quite good at mathematics (had he been a bit more versed in fancy Reimannian geometry, however, general relativity might have happened faster). He had a Ph.D. from one of the world's most prestigious grad schools. He was working as a patent clerk to pay the bills simply because he hadn't yet gotten a teaching job (they were scarce, and even in later years Einstein never did much teaching).

    The point is that he knew his stuff (experimental results and current theory). Too many people think they can walk in off the street with no substantial knowledge of physics or mathematics and give a "common sense" alternative to modern physics that doesn't involve any of the "hard stuff". It usually turns out that their work contradicts some experimental result that they never bothered to learn about. I often see e-mails about such ideas that cite Einstein as an example of how an outsider with no knowledge can change a field. In principle, a gifted outsider with a new insight can change any field. In practice (as Einstein shows), it's good to know what others know first.

    1. Re:Mythos inside and outside physics... by Listen+Up · · Score: 1

      1) You are an empirical physicist and not a mathematician. You should limit your comments to that point.

      2) The universe exists mathematically. Without mathematics there would only be observation without understanding.

      3) There does not need to be physical testability or direct relation to experiment for mathematics to be true. For each physically testable experiment there is an exponential amount of mathematical 'fabric' which exists to determine it. Mathematics itself is both empirical and unempirical. If physicists create incorrect mathematical models, it is not the mathematics which is false, but the model itself.

      4) Aside from your second paragraph, which is poorly thought out, the rest of your post is spot-on.

    2. Re:Mythos inside and outside physics... by ambrosine10 · · Score: 1

      He could be a theoretical physicist - he didn't say.

    3. Re:Mythos inside and outside physics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had heard that Einstein wasn't terrible at math growing up but that it was a rumor only.

      I'd like to think otherwise, perhaps :) Have any sources that he was a poor student?

    4. Re:Mythos inside and outside physics... by ambrosine10 · · Score: 1

      It's a myth. He was certainly good at math, not the best but good enough to be a physicist, which is quite a bit ;)

    5. Re:Mythos inside and outside physics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      I'm an experimental physicist, true, but I'm late in coming to this calling - my background is mostly in theory.

      I completely agree that there are two different sorts of truth - I'll call them "mathematical" and "physical" senses of truth. String theory, for example, certainly contains many truths in the mathematical sense - there are a lot of theorems one can prove that tell us beautiful things about the structure of mathematics. Nonetheless, it may turn out to have no "physical" truth - the physical world may not happen to be that way.

      I was not speaking to the concept of mathematical truth, nor arguing that "wrong" theories cannot be intrinsically interesting as branches of mathematics.

    6. Re:Mythos inside and outside physics... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only thing he appeared to get bad grades in was a foreign language class.

  49. GR, Einstein, Grossman, Hilbert and Plagiarism by Baldrson · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Another article from the UK Register discusses some apparent shenannigans surrounding the theory of General Relativity.

    The money quote:

    "My analysis of Hilbert's mutilated proofs therefore cannot prove that Einstein copied from Hilbert," he says. "It proves less, which is that it cannot be proved that Einstein could not have copied from Hilbert. But it proves that Hilbert had not copied from Einstein, as it has been insinuated following the paper by Corry, Renn and Stachel."

    The original paper by Prof. Winterbottom was published but a rebuttal to that paper by Corry, Renn and Stachel was not.

  50. Better yet... by Chembryl · · Score: 1
    Everything is measured relative that constant we call the 'speed of light'.



    That way you can avoid all those 'clever' questions about shooting beams of light at each other.

    --
    - This and all my posts are public domain. I am a Physicist. I am not your Physicist. This is not Physically advice
  51. How so? by wurp · · Score: 1

    Space and time are not the same thing. Not even in relativity - they're not completely interchangable. Either the space dimensions or the time one (which one depends on if you use quaternions or normal imaginary numbers) is non-real and the other is real. I.e. one subtracts from the interval between events and the other adds.

  52. Local police have quantum physics nailed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The local police just freed a guy that had been
    arrested for murder. They offered the following
    reason for the release:
    "Facts were distributed, but the actuality is
    different."

    Gotta love that indeterminate state.

  53. Symmetry is what it's all about by torako · · Score: 1

    The single most important principle in physics is finding symmetries and invariance principles. And Einstein was extremely good at understanding and formulating those.

  54. World Year of Physics by indig0 · · Score: 1

    FYI:

    "The World Year of Physics 2005 plans to bring the excitement of physics to the public and inspire a new generation of scientists. Timed to coincide with the centennial celebration of Albert Einstein's "miraculous year," the World Year of Physics will be coming to YOU before you know it. "

    From http://www.physics2005.org/

    I, for one, welcome our new Physics overlords.

  55. Right on! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Right on brotha!

  56. Erratum: s/Winterbottom/Winterberg/ by Baldrson · · Score: 1

    Winterbottom is one of my favorite directors.

  57. This feels weird (off topic) by spacerabbits · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It feels weird having your first story accepted after all those years.

    --


    fortune is my favourite linux command
  58. You're completely correct... by antispam_ben · · Score: 1

    ... and my comment was too simple and flippant (perhaps that's often a danger when discussing complicated and/or counterintuitive ideas such as this), but meant to convey that Einstein's findings point out that there's a closer relationship between space and time than many people realize, and than anyone thought of before Einstein.

    --
    Tag lost or not installed.
  59. Very few truly understand relativity, though. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After all these years, and there are very few people on this planet that truly understand relativity! average Joe surely does not understand it...many people that claim they understand it make foundamental mistakes when asked very simple questions about it, me included.

  60. Too bad Alain Aspect's experiment was so late! by renoX · · Score: 1

    I'd really wish that Alain Aspect's experiment could have been made when Einstein was young..

    Maybe he could have shed some light on it: think about what this experiment reveals: one interaction at one place can have an 'impact' instantly on a different location!
    But this 'impact' is subtle enough that it cannot provide information faster than the speed of light..

    That's just plain weird! And Einstein was one of the few men who viewed how bizarre QM is and thought it was incomplete as a result: while some thought that he was 'an old fart' which cannot accept new theory, for me this is exactly the opposite: I bet that few takers of QM really understood how weird it is when you think about EPR paradox..

    I still don't understand it: non-local instant interaction but which still cannot convey information faster than the speed of light???

    Uh?
    I wonder if string theory helps here to describe a "clearer" picture of these weird distant interactions ..

    1. Re:Too bad Alain Aspect's experiment was so late! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Okay,

      Here's how to think of this. Think of a stick man drawn on a piece of paper. He's looking at two electrons that are connected by their spins. You in the 3d world look and see - hey, there's a wire between the two electrons but it's not in a dimension visible to Mr Stickman. Mr. Stickman moves the electrons apart and measures one of them, a message goes along the wire to the other electron.

      This is string theory. More dimensions than we see in the normal world.

      You are Mr. Stickman.

  61. Einstein Myth Free Of His Plagiarism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -- Albert Einstein

    The name "Einstein" evokes images of genius, but was Albert Einstein, in fact, a plagiarist, who copied the theories of Lorentz, Poincare, Gerber, and Hilbert? A scholarly documentation of Albert Einstein's plagiarism of the theory of relativity,
    "Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist" discloses Einstein's method for manipulating credit for the work of his contemporaries, reprints the prior works he parroted, and demonstrates through formal logical argument that Albert Einstein could not have drawn the conclusions he drew without prior knowledge of the works he copied, but failed to reference. Numerous republished quotations from Einstein's contemporaries prove that they were aware of his plagiarism.

    Many people may have been misled by the tactless and prejudiced account of the history of the Hilbert-Einstein equations of gravity published in 1997 by Leo Corry (Cohn Institute, University of Tel-Aviv) and John Stachel (Director of the Center of Einstein Studies, Boston). The "objectivity" of that account is well demonstrated by the fact that Corry and Stachel "forgot" to mention that the set of galley proofs of the fundamental Hilbert's paper that they analyzed was incomplete and was missing a critical part. The wonderful book "Anticipations of Einstein in the General Theory of Relativity" by Bjerknes is a perfect remedy to Corry and Stachel's "discovery" and their attempt to further cultivate the cult of personality of Einstein at the expense of Hilbert. The book is thoroughly and meticulously documented and leaves only one way to counter it: by silencing it or by labeling the author as Einstein-hater (or worse) and changing the subject. Especially valuable is the section reproducing the original publications, including the (incomplete) galley proofs of the Hilbert's paper. If after having read this book someone still thinks that Corry and Stachel understand physics well enough to write about the history of general relativity then I would recommend the paper by A. A. Logunov et al., "How were the Hilbert-Einstein equations discovered?" Physics-Uspekhi, vol. 47, pp. 607-621 (2004) (in English).

  62. Hawking stole a guy's wife by Schwarzchild · · Score: 1
    The guy who created one of Hawking's earlier computer systems (that allowed him to talk) had a wife who was a nurse to Hawking. Hawking and the nurse fell in love and she divorced her husband and Hawking divorced his former wife.

    Oddly enough recent news reports imply that he is being abused by his new wife.

    --

    "sweet dreams are made of this..."

  63. Hilbert and General Relativity by Schwarzchild · · Score: 1
    I've read that Hilbert was about to publish his own paper which had the correct equations of general relativity when Einstein submitted his work.

    I can't quite tell if Hilbert backed down seeing that Einstein had submitted for publication too.

    Anyway, it appears that Hilbert and Einstein both came up with General Relativity at the same time.

    --

    "sweet dreams are made of this..."

  64. Re:Life by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That kills me.

    What keeps you alive? Pure arrogance? You are the one without any thought capacity.

  65. I give the article 50% by Artifakt · · Score: 1

    Unlike most discussions of Einstein, the article does a good job of mentioning the breadth of his discoveries and explaining his stellar place in the scientific pantheon. It's refreshing to see some mention of his work on the photoelectric effect and the results of his brownian motion studies (this is referred to as proving atoms are real, rather than mentioned directly).
    Some of Einstein's other accomplishments, such as the new interpretations of metalurgical theory spun off in his paper on diffusion of metallic atoms at a plane surface weld, has been skipped over, but enough is included to give the idea. His "not quite accomplishement" of getting close to proving the universe was expanding has been skipped as well, but then this field has opened back up and the results are as yet very uncertain. This would probably have required too much space to introduce properly.
    However, in discussing quantum mechanics, only non-locality is really touched upon. Both the other approaches Einstein himself criticised and affected (the many-worlds interpretation, and the classical Copenhagen interpretation) aren't mentioned, and so his thought experiments about QM aren't actually explained at all. When I got to this section, I kept expecting to see the phrase Einstein-Rosen-Podolski pop up somewhere to give the reader something they could google for an explanation. If the article space was that limited, it would have been better to discuss only the early Einstein and stop about 1926.

    --
    Who is John Cabal?
  66. Nice, but how does one download by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Id rather watch these on my DVD player then the pc...

    They aired in my market.. but i missed them when they were on..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  67. They Got Einstein, missed Schrödinger by Little+Brother · · Score: 1
    And it is there in the form of Erwin Schrödinger's equally famous cat, which is simultaneously dead and alive because its fate depends on the quantum properties of an object whose state is indeterminate.

    Schrödinger's cat was supposed to show the flaw in the idea of something being simutaneoulsy two things at once, only defined at observation, why, oh why does everyone use it as a justification (or even explination) of that idea?

    link

    --

    Little Brother, watching the watchers

    1. Re:They Got Einstein, missed Schrödinger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Wikipedia article is misleading. Schroedinger's cat was intended not so much to prove that the idea of superposition was flawed, but to refute the (at the time) common claim that such oddities must be irrelevant at a macroscopic scale. Schroedinger's cat showed that quantum effects can be relevant even for macroscopic bodies.

  68. Read Einstein himself (online)! by Dan+East · · Score: 1
    --
    Better known as 318230.
  69. INSTEAD READ EINSTEIN AS PLAGIARIST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -- Albert Einstein

    The name "Einstein" evokes images of genius, but was Albert Einstein, in fact, a plagiarist, who copied the theories of Lorentz, Poincare, Gerber, and Hilbert? A scholarly documentation of Albert Einstein's plagiarism of the theory of relativity,
    "Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist" discloses Einstein's method for manipulating credit for the work of his contemporaries, reprints the prior works he parroted, and demonstrates through formal logical argument that Albert Einstein could not have drawn the conclusions he drew without prior knowledge of the works he copied, but failed to reference. Numerous republished quotations from Einstein's contemporaries prove that they were aware of his plagiarism.

    Many people may have been misled by the tactless and prejudiced account of the history of the Hilbert-Einstein equations of gravity published in 1997 by Leo Corry (Cohn Institute, University of Tel-Aviv) and John Stachel (Director of the Center of Einstein Studies, Boston). The "objectivity" of that account is well demonstrated by the fact that Corry and Stachel "forgot" to mention that the set of galley proofs of the fundamental Hilbert's paper that they analyzed was incomplete and was missing a critical part. The wonderful book "Anticipations of Einstein in the General Theory of Relativity" by Bjerknes is a perfect remedy to Corry and Stachel's "discovery" and their attempt to further cultivate the cult of personality of Einstein at the expense of Hilbert. The book is thoroughly and meticulously documented and leaves only one way to counter it: by silencing it or by labeling the author as Einstein-hater (or worse) and changing the subject. Especially valuable is the section reproducing the original publications, including the (incomplete) galley proofs of the Hilbert's paper. If after having read this book someone still thinks that Corry and Stachel understand physics well enough to write about the history of general relativity then I would recommend the paper by A. A. Logunov et al., "How were the Hilbert-Einstein equations discovered?" Physics-Uspekhi, vol. 47, pp. 607-621 (2004) (in English).

    1. Re:INSTEAD READ EINSTEIN AS PLAGIARIST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stachel's radical revisionism is discredited in Tilman Sauer's article, "The Relativity of Discovery: Hilbert's First Note on the Foundations of Physics", Archive for History of Exact Sciences, Volume 53, Number 6, (1999), pp. 529-575.

      http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/physics/pdf/9811/98110 50 .pdf

      And in F. Winterberg's article, "On "Belated Decision in the Hilbert-Einstein Priority Dispute", published by L. Corry, J. Renn, and J. Stachel", Z. Naturforsch. 59a, 715-719 (2004).

      http://physics.unr.edu/faculty/winterberg/Hilber t- Einstein.pdf

      This rebuttal to the Winterberg's paper by Corry, Renn and Stachel was not published.

      http://www.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/texts/Winterberg- An twort.html

  70. More on EINSTEIN the PLAGIARIST by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources." -- Albert Einstein

    The name "Einstein" evokes images of genius, but was Albert Einstein, in fact, a plagiarist, who copied the theories of Lorentz, Poincare, Gerber, and Hilbert? A scholarly documentation of Albert Einstein's plagiarism of the theory of relativity,
    "Albert Einstein: The Incorrigible Plagiarist" discloses Einstein's method for manipulating credit for the work of his contemporaries, reprints the prior works he parroted, and demonstrates through formal logical argument that Albert Einstein could not have drawn the conclusions he drew without prior knowledge of the works he copied, but failed to reference. Numerous republished quotations from Einstein's contemporaries prove that they were aware of his plagiarism.

    Many people may have been misled by the tactless and prejudiced account of the history of the Hilbert-Einstein equations of gravity published in 1997 by Leo Corry (Cohn Institute, University of Tel-Aviv) and John Stachel (Director of the Center of Einstein Studies, Boston). The "objectivity" of that account is well demonstrated by the fact that Corry and Stachel "forgot" to mention that the set of galley proofs of the fundamental Hilbert's paper that they analyzed was incomplete and was missing a critical part. The wonderful book "Anticipations of Einstein in the General Theory of Relativity" by Bjerknes is a perfect remedy to Corry and Stachel's "discovery" and their attempt to further cultivate the cult of personality of Einstein at the expense of Hilbert. The book is thoroughly and meticulously documented and leaves only one way to counter it: by silencing it or by labeling the author as Einstein-hater (or worse) and changing the subject. Especially valuable is the section reproducing the original publications, including the (incomplete) galley proofs of the Hilbert's paper. If after having read this book someone still thinks that Corry and Stachel understand physics well enough to write about the history of general relativity then I would recommend the paper by A. A. Logunov et al., "How were the Hilbert-Einstein equations discovered?" Physics-Uspekhi, vol. 47, pp. 607-621 (2004) (in English).

  71. And yet... by ahdeoz · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    we still use Newton every day. Einstein, however, is relegated to a few crackpot sci-fi fans and pop icon posters.

  72. Something he has vehemently denied... by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    .... n/t

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  73. Oh boy, you are so wrong. by jotaeleemeese · · Score: 1

    Here you go:

    It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
    -- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press


    It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
    -- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930


    Goolge is your friend ... or foe if we look at your unfortunate comment.

    --
    IANAL but write like a drunk one.
  74. For Those Experiencing Failures by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Informative
    Copy this URL to the clipboard and do:
    curl -f -C - -O pasteurlhere
    -C - lets you rerun the command as many times as needed to fix dropped transfers.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  75. mod parent up by Carthag · · Score: 1

    he is right