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More Linux Portable Media Players On The Way
An anonymous reader writes "According to LinuxDevices.com, Taiwanese motherboard maker FIC will unveil a Linux-based portable media player (PMP) at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas this week. FIC's 'Vassili' includes a 3.6-inch color LCD screen and a 20GB hard drive, and supports files in MPEG 1-4, MP3, WMA, WAV, ASF, AVI, and JPEG format. Speaking of Linux-based PMPs, Archos will also showcase its lastest PMP, the Pocket Media Assistant PMA400 at CES, and other Linux-based PMPs have recently been announced by iRiver, Veritouch, and Zupera."
can I hack it to run MAME?
What about OGG support? That's the single killer feature for me.
You are not the customer.
Am I the only one who finds it sad that these monstrosities are replacing PDA's? I remember how excited I was at the possibilities presented by those amazing, tiny computers. The things we could do with them, now and in the future. Now that everyone has their calendar app, the innovative companies that were making them are either going out of business or dropping the product lines.
But it's OK! We have this nifty device you can watch movies on! Look at the pretty colors!
... Who the FUCK cares?
... *goes off to flirt with some other dude with an iPod*"
Girl: "Hey, that's a cool MP3 player!"
Luser: "It's not JUST an MP3 player! It runs Linux with a 2.4 kernel, and I even have a copy of GCC installed so that I can compile stuff on it!"
Girl: "Uhh, okay
Serious question: does that mean they are open source?
I mean, as an end user, I don't much care if something is "linux-based" or "foot fungus-based" if I can't open it up and re-do the way that works best for me.
I had an Archos, and the guys at rockbox.org went to considerable trouble to reverse engineer it (and I contributed my own smidgen of code to that project), but Archos apparently saved a bunch of money on assembling their machines, and the damned thing broke down (and mine was far from the only one to break down -- I'll no longer buy anything from Archos).
And Archos's firmware was so ridiculously bad (the Rockbox guys sped up directory browsing alone by a factor of perhaps 50) that I no longer want to buy an mp3 player that I can't hack. Having hacked with teh Rockbox software, I know what I want in an mp3 player -- and I figure I'll have to do it myself.
I want a new mp3 player, indeed my mom wanted to buy me one for Christmas and asked what kind I wanted, but I wasn't anymore versed on what is open source and what isn't but is reversed engineered and what is totally closed, so I couldn't tell Mom what to buy.
Loss for me, loss for the electronics store, loss for the manufacturer.
So "linux-based" I don't really care about -- open source, I care about.
So reply if you know: what hard-drive based mp3 players have hackable source or open source firmware replacements?
Opinions on the Twiddler2 hand-held keyboard?
Where is a device like this going to see the most use? At home most gadget customers have the equipment to play all sorts of media, a larger screen, and a couch.
At work, they have a 14" screen but no couch.
Outside of work and home, well its -15F today...
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
WTF? And I bet the music manager only runs on Windows and OS/X. But it's based on Linux! Super.
Sig goes here.
I fail to see how is it possible that people consume so many useless gadgets.
Speaking of portable multimedia, I was lucky enough to get a Nintendo DS for Xmas! I hear that there will be a mp3/mp4 player for this great system, but I hope to actually be able to run linux (or maybe an alternative OS like kontiki) on the DS and play theora movies and vorbis audio... somehow.
Has anyone heard of any new progress on the Linux/Nintendo DS front? I heard that there was a $1,000 bounty for getting linux to load up on the DS, but that site is now down! I think it uses a dual ARM7/9 processor setup, so it might not be impossible!
Thanks!
i.e. Divx/OGG/etc-enabled DVD players? That would REALLY hit the market.
I seriously hope they use mplayer and add support for all of the file formats that mplayer can handle.
Why?
Well... mythtv records in this crazy format called NUV. It's opensource, but it's not in any top ten codecs list. But... mplayer supports it just fine.
I sure would like to have a portable media player that supported "raw" mythtv recordings
I hope the firmwares upgradable? they must be doing something dodgy to get windows media format support? no i didnt RTFA. Sue me.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Just wanted to throw my hat in for the Archos 400. It runs an embedded operating system that I THINK (don't quote me) is Linux. Regardless, it's reliable and plays DivX movies beautifully. I have about 20 movies on the thing (that I purchased, thank you very much) and they all run great. Battery life is respectable, too (about 8-10 hours). Made me give up my iPod.
Yesterday I was in Target and MP3 players have reached the point where they are packaged in that impossible to open plastic card and hung on metal pegboard hooks in lots of 10. Even with extra storage we're still talking in the $150 range. Why would anyone care what OS it runs? It's practically disposable at that point.
It might have something to with the name. "Ogg" isn't exactly dressing for marketing success. People don't want to listen to "oggs". At least "MP3" sounds cool and techie.
".music" would have worked. or: ".tune", ".sound", ".tun", ".mix", ".track"... anything but Ogg!
Names have power. As Bankie would say, there were the fingers of the Ogg developers, far from the people's pulse...
Any more TLAs and IGN!
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
and the first thing I heard in my mind was Snoop and 50 cent:
I don't know what you heard about me
But da iPod ain't got nuthin over me
I have color LCD and more bling tham you can see
cause I'm a m%$*&*&%#%& PiMP
sigs are like a box of chocolates, they all suck remove the underscores to email me
It's a Linux-based product that supports every codec you'd probably need but the open source one I use all the time, Ogg Vorbis. They really did a great job on that one.
"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
I hope all these manufacturers adhere to the GPL and release the source code for their devices. Right now there are several big players in the SOHO router marketplace that do not. The ones that do provide stripped-down versions of what they actually ship, and most of them had to be persuaded to do so. They consider their device driver modules proprietary and don't provide source for those regardless of what the GPL says. Many of these manufacturers are not based in the U.S., so I can see how it might be expensive to bring a court action to enforce copyright, but that shouldn't be an excuse. Restraining orders preventing manufacturers from selling their products can be very effective.
Will the FSF or other copyright holders finally stand up for their rights? I'm no lawyer, but I seem to recall that if you don't take affirmative steps to protect your copyrights you can lose the protection they provide.
Is PMP pronounced "pimp"?
Some mornings it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints to get out of bed.
i always thought vorbis sounded good. but then again, i always thought mp3 sounded stupid. *shrug*
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Impress her with the 2.6.9 kernel and you'll have it made
OGG tends to sound better than MP3 in my experience.
<jedi> There is something funny here. You laugh. </jedi>
All these companies claim that their device is somehow "Linux-based" or "Powered by Linux". The problem is that most of these companies are making it worthless to be run by Linux. I mean honestly--what the hell use is it to me that a device is Linux-powered if the crucial device logic, drivers, or userland applications are all closed-source?
NONE.
So unless their devices are 100% open source that I can hack and modify freely, these are just more companies jumping on the "Hey we run Linux too! *snicker*" bandwagon.
Bull-crap.
Sounds like ghetto slang to me...
I was under the impression that the wmv family of formats was proprietary to Microsoft. I'd be shocked into next Tuesday if MS licensed those codecs to be used for a Linux-based player. How is it possible that FIC is doing this legally?
Thad
I love Mondays. On a Monday, anything is possible.
I found out a few minutes ago that apparently the site offering the $1000 bounty for loading up linux on the DS didn't just go down, it was apparently attcked, which would obviously have brought it down. however, there is a sourceforge project http://sourceforge.net/projects/nitro/ to bring the DS online using techniques that are apparently better than tunneling. The project will be written in C and is in the pre-alpha stages.
I think the poster means if you take an MP3 and recode it as an OGG. In which case it will not sound better than the mp3.
-]Phreak Out[-
"I think the poster means if you take an MP3 and recode it as an OGG. In which case it will not sound better than the mp3."
WTF? Who would do this?
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
Elitists who don't buy music? Uninformed people who don't know what they're doing? It's really hard to say, but a few easy to figure out possibilities exist.
-]Phreak Out[-
If you have to rip a DVD first, then you're looking at a fair bit of time at a desktop first, and then a portable DVD player starts to make more sense because you won't get that many ripped DVDs with reasonable quality on these units.
I would like to see one of these that can be docked in a device like a TiVO where this item is the removable storage that can play on the road, but does normal PVR duty when at home.
Just my .02 worth...
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Check here for the other .98 :-)
These sorts of consumer products are what will REALLY show the non-technical consumers the benefits of open source in their pocket devices. They will soon come to see that once they buy the product it does not remain static, but will adapt as user groups form that contain techies motivated to extend the products capabilities. As more and more consumers realize the advantages, the market for open-source based devices will increase, and hopefully open-source will become an important sales feature.
Companies will then compete with more flexible hardware, attempting to leave some room for unplanned enhancements or variations, in an effort to help the product gain a life of its own and sales take off accordingly...
And the result should be a series of amazing and unusual applications as devices are adapted to unexpected and imaginative uses.
Especially once USB peer-to-peer enhancments become more widespread (or Firewire), eliminating the need for a "computer" to drive them, and digital cameras can then connect directly to media players, etc., a lot of new "field" applications may arise from open-source pocket devices.
Anyone seen a Linux-based digital camera yet? I could think of quite a few features I'd like to homebrew onto one of those...
Where are you idiots coming from? There is nothing viral about the GPL. It's not any more viral than any other license: if you incorporate someone else's code into your program without respecting the license, you are violating their copyright and are liable for damages. The GPL isn't any different, except for a way to legally use someone else's code. Nobody can make you release your code against your wish.
See, here's the thing.
These Linux based PMPs are cool.
But the iPod Photo is a Portable Image and Music Player.
And everyone knows nothing else is as cool as a PIMP.
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Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
(I read with sigs off.)
Legal devices can't use mplayer unless they rip out all the patented (e.g. good) codecs, since patents and the GPL don't mix.
These sorts of consumer products are what will REALLY show the non-technical consumers the benefits of open source in their pocket devices. They will soon come to see that once they buy the product it does not remain static, but will adapt as user groups form that contain techies motivated to extend the products capabilities.
Yeah, right. Half of the embedded Linux products on the market come with no source code (sure it's illegal, but what are you going to do about it?) and the other half come with minimal, undocumented, barely-compilable code that doesn't include any of the interesting features. The result is that the open source hackers end up having to write new firmware from scratch, which rarely ends up being better than the original.
But it's a nice dream.
What this article implies is that by running under a GPL kernel with the GPL'd multipurpose busybox binary, all software on the OS immediately becomes GPL.
The kernel traffic article does not imply that at all, because it is wrong. If iRiver uses Linux and busybox, then they only have to provide source to Linux and busybox. But they have not done it.
That Archos PMA400 that's going to be introduced at CES is really going to be more than just a PVP. It's going to be a full-fledged PDA with a built-in hard drive. You'll be able to keep your calendar and contacts on it, check your email on it via Wi-Fi (or via Bluetooth, if your cell phone lets you do that), and possibly do some web surfing as well.
So why don't we see more PDAs with built-in hard drives?
Seriously, is it a battery life issue, or is it just that nobody else has thought of it yet? It seems to me that if a Palm or PocketPC device came out with even a 5GB microdrive inside, it would cause real problems for a lot of MP3 players that aren't iPods. Plus, PDAs with built-in hard drives would automatically have an advantage over most smartphones in terms of storage. Add in a faster processor and some extra memory, and now you're talking about something as close to a PC as you can get in your pocket. (Assuming your pockets aren't quite big enough for that OQO, of course...)
Personally, I'd be all over something like that Tapwave Zodiac if it could hold 20GB of my music collection, too. Wouldn't you?
Visit me on the web at Permanent4.com.
So then it's settled...
All occurences of the string "OGG" in encoders/decoders/players and existing song file names will be replaced with 69R
eg: "Rammstein - Reise, Reise.69R"
Think of the pickup lines... "Hey baby, want to sample my 69R selection?", etc.
How about "Vorbis"? I've always thought that was a really cool name. Maybe the format would have more support if it was referred to based on the name of the codec rather than the audio container?
Your argument is equivalent to this:
I like SCSI. It's far superior to IDE. But it's twice as expensive because it's a much more complicated schema. Oh noes!!11one! Oh whys did anyone adopt IDE standards? A vastly inferior - but curiously affordable - tecmology! It must be Microsoft's fault!
For fuck's sake - stop being so god-damned dramatic. It's not a massive "TEH WORLD VERSUS APPLE!" fight as you imagine it was. Even Sony likes / liked Firewire enough that they even had their own name for it: "iLink". My generic, completely standard no-brand 2-year-old PC has a Firewire port on the back (right next to the 6 USB ports) - as does my Apple Powerbook (right next to it's 2 USB ports). However, I have absolutely no Firewire perhiperals.
It turns out that the Firewire protocol was overengineered for devices like keyboard and mice. I have never seen a Firewire mouse, for example. Possibly because you don't need 400Mbps to move a mouse pointer. But USB (universal serial bus) was good for keyboards and mice because it's design goal was to replace the PC's serial and parallel ports. Slow speed USB 1.0 runs at 1.5Mbps - plenty of bandwidth for the task and very inexpensive. USB 2.0 (at 450Mbps, faster than Firewire 400) also happens to be "good enough" for most heavyweight external periperals like mass storage and multimedia (ie: video). AND USB 2.0 devices are backwards compatible with USB 1.1 (running at 12.5Mbps). So, it turns out that USB is a plenty good enough solution for the masses.
Oh, but: Firewire 800 BROKE PHYSICAL COMPATIBILITY with Firewire 400 by having a different connector. Ooops. Sucks to have chosen Firewire equipment, now you have to buy new cables and convertors to use 400 equipment with a 800 port.
As the saying goes:
"The good enough is the enemy of the excellent."
But even you must, surely, admit that you don't need 400Mbps data transfer rate FOR A MOUSE AND KEYBOARD.
As a result, to this day Firewire still hasn't hit the magic numbers to drop the cost down to parity with USB.
Agreed - it's probably still more expensive to make Firewire devices. But blame this on them for making a standard that's too complicated. Again - where's my Firewire mouse and keyboard? Exactly - USB was cheaper, so that's what people are going to buy, so that's what they make.
If they'd managed to make firewire mice and keyboards, I'm sure the price would have dropped by now. I have eleven USB devices (various keyboards, mice, joysticks, MP3 players, USB storage devices). I have no Firewire devices. Given those volumes, take a guess at which is going to be cheaper to manufacture?
Microsoft had no small role in retarding the introduction of Firewire in Windows. MS/Intel swing a lot of weight. They did not exactly like Apple making a new standard.
Absolute bullshit, you filthy, filthy liar. Sony is a big Microsoft customer (with their VAIO line) - and they happily introduced Firewire into their range. Of course, their motivation was interoperability with their digital camcorders - but USB 2.0 hadn't launched at that point. So please show me some hard evidence that Microsoft squashed Firewire - not just your insane ramblings that point to Microsoft being the root of all fabricated evil.
Ogg doesn't equate to quality loss; in fact, it performs better than mp3 in most cases. You're right, though, as far as converting mp3 to ogg; converting mp3 to anything (indeed, converting any lossy format to anything) is a bad idea, and will result in quality loss. That's why it's so important to be able to play both; you're invariably going to have some music in legacy formats on your computer, but at the same time, you'll want to take advantage of the higher quality and smaller file sizes afforded by Ogg files encoded from lossless sources (WAVs or CD audio).
Peed My Pants if it looks really good...
I commute half hour each day, each way to my office. I would love to watch movies during my daily commute.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
You can patent some code (at least in the US) and the GPL it.
No contradictions I believe, but I am willing to be educated.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
If you want to hack something it is much easier to do so if you know the item to be hacked is using something you are already familiar with.
ANd alos there are many of us who care who different companies are paying to when implementing embedded solutions.
I will rather support companies using OSS software since they will al least be aware of how it works, closed source company should be punished when one can do so since their business model is stalling progress in the IT industry.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Although this does not solve your conundrum I would feel inclined to believe a PMP device from iRiver should support Ogg as well.
I am surpirsed their websie don;t specify this, the documentation they provide is second to none, I would have a second look at manuals and available information.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
In the other hand others .. o sorry, AC, yeah, typical, a sheep hirding on the herd.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... is akin to the uneducated misinformation you are spreading, then it is not silverbullet at all.
It is only uninformed, lazy people that continue to use the MS given mantra of "viral" when refering to GPL licensing.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I did, but it was only to get some streaming-audio ;)
program to work properly...it did not like mp3
So If I get one of those special addition VW beetles, can I PMP my ride with an IPod?
"... always going forward 'cause we cant find reverse! "
Just in case you are interested in Linux connectivity to other portable audio and video players, there are reports for Apple iPod, Archos JukeBox, Creative Nomad MuVo, Diamond Rio, Sony Diskman and many more models. There is also a survey of Linux Applications for Portable Music and Video Players, links to free music (GPLed or under Creative Commons license and tips and tricks about repairing, upgrading and disassembling your portable media player.
GPL is extremely UNfree, as it forces them to go down a road they normally don't want to go, against their will (open their source)
/. and elsewhere have a coding job (as opposed to coding hobby), doing so would be extremely infantile.
That would be UNfree as in beer. Nobody is twisting their arm. If they use GPLed code, they either agreed to abide by the GPL or are violating copyright. They actually get off pretty easy doing that, since there have never been any damages awarded. Try including an unlicensed copy of Windows with a product and see how much better off you will be.
You can brand them all as "evil" or "idiots" with in your cute little religion, but since it's due to them that most coders here on
You are basically saying that stealing code is OK if it's GPL code, since you don't like the GPL. Now THAT is extremely infantile.
hire enough people