Slashdot Mirror
New DRM Scheme To Make Current DVD Players Obsolete
Oneflower writes "ExtremeTech reports that a proposed new DRM scheme could make current DVD players obsolete. The scheme, from Hewlett-Packard and Philips, targets DVD+R and DVD+RW and is an attempt to enforce the FCC broadcast flag on DVD recorders."
New DRM Scheme To Make Current Slashdot stories Obsolete
liqbase
Yet Another Star Wars Boxset to buy!
"An infinite number of monkeys typing into GNU emacs would never make a good program."
DVD-R is the preferred recordable DVD flavor for movies these days. It's cheaper than +R and more compatible with DVD players.
FU CARLY
This is never going to happen, no one is going to go and buy a new DVD player for some new crappy wannabe-standard. They'll try it and fail, next please!
I like muppets.
that my DVD players/writers come obsolete anytime soon. I use them for writing data, not playing/recording movies. Besides, users don't like forced obsolence of hardware anyway.
And a hack will be made, a firmware update released and in the end we will be back to what we are doing today. Not to mention this will take a LOT of time until it comes out and becomes mainstream (how many people are going to change their dvd players/recorders....meaning they won't be buying this new media format for a while)
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
Three people shocked by news of planned obsolescence in consumer products!
You are about to give someone a piece of your mind, something which you can ill afford...
from the article, emphasis mine: Hewlett-Packard and Philips said Wednesday that they have developed a content-protection system for DVDs, designed to protect users from burning "protected" DTV broadcasts.
How on earth does this "protect users"? It only tries to protect the bottom line of media megacorporations. Being manufacturers of the physical drive units I don't doubt they may try backtracking and manufacturing drives for stand-alone DVD players which only play +R(W) media, too, thus locking out the -R(W) media which won't work with this new scheme.[0]
Fortunately the general public seems to be getting more tech savvy (the refusal to accept Circuit City's Divx scheme, rising awareness of spyware and solutions, etc) so hopefully people will see this as it is: a money grab.
[0] - a bit of irony on Philips part there I think; I just picked up a Philips DVP642 DVD player which can also play divx and xvid on cdr/dvdr/etc. Surely they know the great bulk of those are downloaded.
Trolling is a art,
It's not like I can't just stop watching DVDs.
There's a threshold to just how much crap people will put up with it. Mine and some fellow geeks may have lower thresholds, but eventually the public threshold will be met as well and the companies that keep pulling these silly stunts will get a thrashing in the form of competition that treats customers like customers, not like crooks.
Alito: A vote for Alito is a punch in the eye to put that bitch back in her place!
Lets sue them for making me have to buy a new DVD player
It can be recorded/copied.
When are they going to learn?
People Talking in Movie shows.. people smoking in bed.. people voting republican.. GIVE THEM A BOOT TO THE HEAD!
It almost makes me want to dust off my VCR until everyone stops trying to create a new format every other week. At least then I know I can still buy tapes that work with it and never have to worry about them forcing betamax or something equally silly on me.
In other news, 15 years ago a woman in Lithuania gave birth to a kid who will crack the new scheme shortly after his sixteenth birthday.
In order to secure our profits, you must go out and buy new hardware.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
is to just not buy ANY of this DRM stuff.
Stop sending money to the MPAA and RIAA by buying the goods which support them.
If they don't have money, they can't buy congress-kritters. If they don't have money, they will wither away and become dust.
...and they will drop this like a hot potato. Any recorder that does not allow you to get round this will be dead in the water.
The same thing has happened with multi-region DVD players here in Europe. If it doesn't have a way to get round the illegal-restriction-of-trade technology, then people simply won't touch it.
Every player in every store now has a hastily applied sticker saying "Multi-Region!". Once the new recorders come out, word will get around about any models that can be bypassed, and sales will take off, leaving others face down in the dust.
And, of course, since US companies aren't allowed to do this, only overseas companies who deliver to several markets will have a legitimate excuse.
So, congratulations, once again US legislators are outsourcing American jobs and increasing the trade deficit.
Well done!
Sean Ellis
Follow OfQuack's antics on Twitter.
... to buy a shedload of cheap DVD players and VCRs unencumbered by any of this crap. Keep 'em in the loft 'til they're needed, wheel 'em out one by one as they break.
Unless... this is a scheme to make us buy shedloads of cheap DVD players and VCRs. Argh! What's the conscientious paranoid supposed to do with himself nowadays?
First of all, the standard is not going to catch on. People are not going to run out and buy a new DVD player so they can buy new movies that are the same quality as the ones the already own. The only way this might work would be to outlaw the selling of the old DVDs. Thats not going to happen. Secondly, this is stupid anyway because it doesn't do anything to stop VCD/SVCDs. The majority of the downloads I see on bittorrent sites are not 4GB, they are more like 1.5 or 1 GB and they are usually Mpeg format, for burning to VCDs. I am sure some manufacturers will be able to make a version of these new DVD players that play VCDs, and they will sell! Just like the old players. The people behind that anouncement are probably just trying to appease a bunch of idiots in Hollywood.
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -Confucius
Why exactly would I buy DVDs that I can't play on my existing DVD player? Oh yeah, in a few years they simply won't make DVDs that do play on my existing player.
Reject Fear - Embrace Hope
If that's not the case, then it's bullshit. Although I won't argue that a lot of media piracy is abound, by _FAR_ the biggest use for DVD players is to watch actually legally purchased or rented content, and if these changes won't interfere with that on old players then the whole "making DVD players obsolete" thing is just mindless hype.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Seriously. I know you short attention span types want to see all the latest and greatest shows and movies but the great thing about entertainment is that by definition it's not a necessity.
Go read a book, go surf the net, go create something or take up cooking or amature botany or anything rather than give your attention and money to these schmucks who want to eliminate rights you've had for the past however many years.
This isn't food or shelter or clothing. If the supplier abuses you - abandon him.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
...I'll go along with their shiny new DRM standard, if they'll replace my DVD player for free. By which I mean, pick it up from my door, and give me an equivalent player with the DRM, for absolutely no cost to myself.
However, I bought a DVD player, and if it stops playing DVDs for no good reason, I'm not going to be enthusiastic about buying another...
"The VCTS scheme will also be built into next-generation media, which will slowly replace the non-DRM encoded DVD+R discs over time. The new discs will be somewhat more expensive than their DRM-free counterparts, explained Jun Ishihara, a product manager for Mitsubishi Chemical Media Co., also known as Verbatim. Likewise, the new players will probably be priced somewhat higher than conventional players, HP executives said, although pricing will be up to individual manufacturers."
Why would consumers willingly pay MORE for LESS functionality, and kick their current gear to the curb to boot?!
*shudder*
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
it just encourages people in the USA to buy CD burners from overseas instead, where the FCC flag won't be implemented, supported or mandated.
Each time they made money for the sellers of the scheme, but harmed the purchasers. And I don't mean the end-users, I mean the companies that shipped software that depended on unreliable and sometimes deliberately broken hardware.
Customers couldn't use the products, and returned them for a refund. Which made the dealers relctant to stock them, and eventually the products were supplanted by their more functional competitors.
--dave
davecb@spamcop.net
Horseshit.
The media companies are trying to find ways to curtail not just piracy but legitimate fair use. They fought VCR's when they first came out and the movie studios fought television when it first came out.
They are short sighted and almost always fight what ends up making them a lot of money when they lose. The danger is they may not lose this time.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
My Panasonic -R recorder has already refused to record several movies because it detected a copyright flag.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
You have been protected.
You break my DVD player, I'll just go ahead and steal some of your movies from DC++, asshole. Don't you people get it? I have a finite space in my budget to spend on your shit. I don't have any more money for you, and if you make me start spending it on new hardware for your ridiculous new standards, then I won't have any left to buy your IP with.
...you insensitive clod.
I'm still waiting for two features they never brought over from VHS:
1. A format that will ALWAYS fast forward when I hit the fast forward button. (same with rewind)
2. A format that will withstand the destructive force of a toddler. (Though I do applaud the DVD's resistance to heat from a car.)
If this new-fangled DRM standard player would provide me with those things (and have a low cost), I'd look into buying one. I'm not holding my breath.
There's enough people out there that don't mind the digital to analogue step down process. Take CDs for example, DRM only works when you can check against something that somewhat resembles the original digital format with watermarks, key points, etc. If someone has simply hooked up a 3.5mm jack plug from their audio out to the mic on their soundcard then they can easily rip music into mp3 format. The same is true with DVDs, there are still plenty of people that won't mind the minute subtle changes that come in to play from using the analogue step down process.
To get around this, companies would have to then have to figure out how to pick up traits in the music/film as opposed to relying on actual markers. This too can be easily overcome though for example for the case of music, the pitch can be altered by less that 1% and for most people the difference would be virtually nill.
What I resent is that film studios and distribution companies are making a fortune here, while something which was one of the basic given rights, to make a legit backup, is being taken away. I'm sure as hell not going to be spending another $70 on some box set when some rugrat happens to scratch one of the DVDs. If film companies were really threatened by piracy and weren't using this as some kind of "anti-double jeopardy" thing they'd have some way that you could prove that you'd bought the original and they'd send you a replacement if you damaged yours for a minimal fee. After all, the media costs literally pence to produce and it is the content that we are actually paying for.
- Better picture quality
- Better sound quality
- Additional extra's
- No need to rewind the tape
- Ability to skip to certain sections of the film
- Smaller physical size of the DVD medium
There are 6 keys things there that satisfy the "what is in it for me?" factor.Having a new format with better DRM fails this test completely. The only way it will ever get adopted is if people are forced to change - and there will be public uproar.
In short, if they're going to want to introduce it, then they have to come up with some other features that really will make people want to "upgrade". If not, then it is pretty much dead in the water from the beginning.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
[0] - a bit of irony on Philips part there I think; I just picked up a Philips DVP642 DVD player which can also play divx and xvid on cdr/dvdr/etc. Surely they know the great bulk of those are downloaded.
I think rather than irony this is a fun example of how geeks can pull one over on increasingly clueless higher ups - to upper management at Phillips Divx is nothing more than another item on a checkbox list of features!! I'll bet some guy got Divx added in just that way. It's what I would do, were I working at Phillps and also perhaps a follower of Bob.
Finally the stupid "feature list" serves a purpose for good.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
is a must read. The FCC is going to lose this one because they clearly don't have the authority to require the Broadcast Flag.
Thank your local bespeckled "digitally-savvy" Librarian for this one (and yes, I'm trained as a Librarian -- we do care about ensuring digital rights).
They already are getting that competition in the form of the Internet. The average American spends 30 minutes less time watching TV on a daily basis because of the Internet.
Ultimately, TV and Movies are just another form of entertainment. If they make access to these things expensive and inconvenient, people will simply choose another way to be entertained. They'll go watch the latest e-mail from strong bad. They'll download some fan produced star wars movie. They won't have to pay a dime and ultimately they'll be as entertained, if not more so, than they were from TV and Movies.
So go ahead mega media empires. Go ahead and DRM and freak out about all of this, and watch it all crumble underneath your feet. We are your CUSTOMERS, and you are supposed to provide us a service. If you actually think that intentionally introducing confusing, complicated, and inflexible products will make us more willing to give you money, you need to get into rehab.
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
Maybe it's getting lost on the manufacturers out there, but usually if you want someone to buy your new product that is supposed to supplant an older-yet-functional product, you have to have some kind of compelling reason.
DVD worked where LaserDisc failed, because the electronics became cheaper, and the quality was much better than VHS, while not taking any more physical space than VHS.
Better quality + same price point = commercial success
However, if this new stuff requires consumer purchase without consumer gain, it will be relegated to the halls of failed products, in the display case between DIVX (the single use disc, not the codec) and SunnComm's CD copy protection which could be bypassed through the use of the shift key.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
By law June 2005 is the last month any equipment can be made to ignore broadcast flags.
This is the new standard whether we like it or not since many dvd makers will be fined if they do not include the drm.
Isn't corruption great?
http://saveie6.com/
"it has nothing to do with rights or DRM, it's a simple matter of average joe's seeing that things doesn't work the way they used to. and he/she will not buy any more of them because these things "don't work."
That's true, up to a point of about 6 months after the initial advertising campaign and product release. I used to work at Wal-Mart (sucked hard) and every consumer there initially hated DVDs, because their old "videos don't work no more." Then after a few months of advertising sinks into their thick skulls, and they see some of their friends with them...Poof DVDs are embraced and Joe's now working hard to 'convert' his old 300 piece VHS collection to DVD; fool.
Combine this new campaign with a dangling carrot of 'further increased quality' or simply being cooler than traditional DVDs, and in six months everyone will be snarfing them down as if they had a disposable income; fools.
It's not about the technology, DRM doesn't matter; all that matters is how it's marketed. If enough non DRM alternatives are removed from Wal-Mart shelves, what do you think people are going to do? Grumble, and then stuff it into their cart just as their told.
That is incorrect. The Picass0 robot is malfunctioning. I will protect you from the terrible secret of Fiorina. Fiorina has a terrible power.
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
What if consumers do not know?
After all we all now use macrovision and many of us bought new TV's because we could not figure out why we could not watch some certain movies. I know my parents did and it was years later until I found about Macrovision.
This new standard will be standard. It has to be by law. June 2005 is the deadline for the old standard to become obsolute under the DMCA.
Its also a crime punishable to 10 years in prison to copy movies you own or practice fair use.
The US government is always on the side of big business. Get use to it.
http://saveie6.com/
Uh... No, not confusing acronyms. DivX was a Circit City invention of a variant on DVDs that required you to pay money for everytime you watched a disk after the first three times. The players would dial home to a central server and bill your credit card. The idea failed miserably and in its honor the DivX codec was named. I have had troubles with this at work where people thought I was talking about the circuit city product and not the codec.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
A few years ago, SONY decided to "protect" its movie/music assets by designing all of their home DVD players to reject recorded (instead of stampted) media.
SONY must have thought they were the only company in the world producing home DVD players. To no one's suprise, Pioneer (made players that played anything you threw at them) had a banner year in home DVD player sales.
As far as "non-compliance" with DVD standards goes - who cares. The music industry is pulling this crap right now saying DRM protected CDs are not really CDs - so they can ignore the standard.
It only takes ONE hardware manufacturer to decide that it is not in their best intrest to sell bastardized hardware for this plan to fall apart. I'll bet there are a lot of hardware manufacturers that don't own music or movie companies that would love more hardware marketshare.
-ted
Actually, from R'ing TFA, the article headline is very misleading. This will not make any change to current DVD players. It makes changes to make the recorders obey the evil bit/broadcast flag.
The fact that they expect the media and the players to cost more once this is in place (so Hitachi can get their royalties of course) is going to slow adoption of this.
Cheers
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Friends of Crazy Christians.
What's an FCC?
Federal Censorship Committee. You guys should really look into getting yourselves one. They're great!
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
DVI will be encrypted, or any other digital means.
But high quality analog is fine with me. I don't see what the problem is with good quality captures off of a component video input.
Do any good HD capture cards have component inputs? I haven't had a chance to play with any of them.
This should be legal, and not "grey area" quasi-legal either. The supreme court said years ago that I can make analog copies for the purpose of timeshifting (broadcast flag or no broadcast flag), did they not?
What TiVo does is legal and I shouldn't have to deal with any kind of crap to extract and burn it to DVD (and TivoToGo is going to be a load of crap). It captures an analog signal. The problem is 1:1 digital copies, right?
Fuck it. Nowadays watching TV requires a lawyer. All this shit will kill the "entertainment" industry as it stands.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
The author suggests that IFF an activity (copying) is prohibited via technical or practical means, it follows that activity is restricted by copyright law.
This is the view that the **AA has been promoting for some time now, through propoganda and the DMCA.
That is--if it's technically difficult, it must be illegal. And, via the DMCA, that we, the **AA, will decide what's legal and what rights you have. You will be informed of our decision after you buy our product.
Folks, it doesn't work that way. Fair use has not been repealed. Not by the unelected and un-apointed **AA, and not by the passage of the DMCA.
The DMCA gives a group of unelected people the practical ability to make certain legal activities illegal. Our constitution doesn't allow that. The power to pass legislation comes from the whole of the people. The select group that we give this task was ostensibly elected by the whole of the people they represent. Not by a small group.
A person (or corporate "person") who wishes to apply for this sort of protection should not be allowed to arbitrarily remove rights from other persons.
I propose a test:
"If you want your RM system to be protected under the DMCA, you must submit it for approval. (leaving the approval process and challenges to improperly approved systems to another discussion). If your system inhibits legally protected activities, your system may not be protected under the DMCA. You may implement the system, as long as it doesn't break existing laws. But if someone chooses to break your system in order to exercise their rights in an otherwise legal manner of their choosing, the law will not stop them. However, if your system ONLY inhibits those activities in a manner you are already legally entitled to control, then it may be protected."
Seems to me a fair test--Everybody's existing rights are protected. No unelected person gets to make arbitrary decisions for the rest of us, then use the penalty of law to enforce those decisions.
It removes the power to enact laws from the **AA and the puts it back into the hands of the legislature where it belongs.
This assumes, of course, that legislators answer to the will of the majority of the citizens they represent--not to the citizens offering the biggest bribe.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
This new DVD format sounds like it takes away more freedoms than it gives. Who is fooling who? DRM means the rights of the media companies and not the consumer that buys the thing. The consumer is actually losing rights and freedoms here and being forced to buy a new DVD player.
What this will do is force more people to get on the Internet to download cracked versions of DVD images on the file sharing networks and burning their own copies, because the new DVDs won't play in their $60 DVD player they bought a few years ago. Rather than spend $120 for a new DVD player, they spend $59 on 100 DVD-R disks in bulk and start up whatever P2P file sharing program they can and make DVD-R copies of movies from that.
Way to go, the more you tighten your grip on the DRM movement, the more revenue that slips through your fingers.
P.S. The Hackers/Crackers will find a way around this protection in less than a month, and turn protected DVDs into DVD ISO images using a DVD ripper. The ISOs can then be burned back to a DVD-R or DVD+R or DVD+RW disk after that, the DVD ISOs can be shared over file swapping networks.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
DVD-R is the preferred recordable DVD flavor for movies these days. It's cheaper than +R and more compatible with DVD players.
ROFL. Slashdot man speaks with forked tongue.
DVD+R was designed specifically to have a format that is compatible with the DVD-movie standard. In other words, a DVD movie player doesn't even need to know about DVD+R to be able to play movies written to a DVD+R disk. It's hard to get more compatible than that, and I'm proving the compatibility daily on my antique DVD movie-only players.
No other DVD format is compatible with DVD movie in this way. All the other formats require the player to have been programmed explicitly to handle them.
My last post sounded a bit like a troll, but here is one thing that is a parallel in the software industry:
- Red Hat, Mandrake, Novell, Linspire, and others are still in business!
- People "pirate" their software like crazy!
- And Sun is open sourcing Solaris next month!
It's craziness, this whole trust your customers idea! It's insanity, I tell ya!
-- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
Frankly, were I a lawyer, as soon as these things started being sold to the channel, I'd try to put together a class-action lawsuit claiming harm to the class of people who previously purchased recording devices that were being legally used that now had to go out and purchase new units.
Also, the fact that these new units would cost more due to the implimentation of this copy-protection scheme creates additional actionable harm.
I would add, for the benefit of karlandtanya that the term fair use also refers to the permission to exhibit or broadcast copyrighted material due to a news event, like the death of a person connected with the material, a photograph of a person and so on. Fair use in the United States exists for a period of 48 hours and then it expires. In that event, one might be able to use one's home-digitized material on a blog as long as the link was removed in 48 hours, though this has certianly not been tested.
What he is referring to is home copying, which is legal as a result of the Sony Betamax Case that specifically allows home recording and copying and storing of material for personal use.
Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
1) DVD handles chapter forward and back (a VHS doesn't DO that...) and via the remote (and in some cases, on the front panel...) you can fast-forward/reverse in at least 4-5 different speeds and slow-forward at at least 2-3 different speeds. Now some discs have some obnoxious feature that prevent you from doing this sort of thing to the "previews" (ads?) on the disc- but they're actually in the very small minority of late because people bitched about that... Item 1 on your list has pretty much been a non-issue since the beginning- always HAS been.
2) Tape's much worse- haven't you seen VHS tapes strewn across roadways by rowdy teenieboppers? All it'd take to ruin a tape is to give it a couple of swirlies, moosh food or spill juice/kool-aid into the thing, or stick one's fingers into the loader gaps in the door (which little fingers would be adept at doing) and PULL (ooh... Such fun that!). DVD's can be snapped and scratched up- the other "mishaps" that would trash a VHS tape don't even figure into a DVD, they're non-problems. Light to medium scratching can usually be ignored by a player and when it isn't, one can typically resurface the optical portion of the disk with various products on the market, which do, amazingly work well.
Simply put, neither of your reasons work as being valid concerns. (And the people that modded you up as "Interesting" never went through this little mental exercise to see if you really were "Interesting"...)
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
+R is significantly less compatible.
..I JUST bought a DVD for the TV and a cdburner/DVD reader for my computer. Yes I know that has been out for years, I had a VHS player that sufficed and never really needed to burn media to disk, but I want to now use free software, so I got one. If you won't let me watch your paid for media on my hardware, FINE, so be it. I won't. Nor will I buy it.
Dear DVD media hardware people, Hollywood, and "musicians". I have never in my life ONE TIME ever downloaded an "illegal" piece of media or "shared" it. I've never burned a "shareware" software programmer or cheated them out of their asked for money, or even used a "pirated" version of software. I have paid as I have gone along. I have grown up with first 78s then 33's then 45s on vinyl, I purchased them. I went to your "movies" at the theater and to your live concerts. I used reel to reel to backup some of my stuff and make playlists of a sort. Then you came out with 8 track and cassettes, I bought the 8 tracks and cassettes, and VHS tapes as well, but I was able to move my 8 tracks all to cassettes because your "standard" was such a sucky failure. I was able to make an original backup of a VHS tape and play that one and not wearout the master. Then the computer age with floppies and CDs. You know what? It never annoyed me that the stuff got "obsolete" before now, because there was a way to transfer your media and "upgrade" without having to REBUY YOUR SAME SHIT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. I am NOT going to keep doing that. You have already whizzed me off enough to rarely go to the theater or to live concerts, and only occassionally do I buy pre recorded media now, but this is it, that will drop to ZERO. If you really don't want me to listen or watch your stuff or rubn your program without taking out a bank loan, then good luck to you with your new and improved "business" model. I'm only one guy, but no more of my loot to you guys.
I feel like I'm going to have to keep saying this 'til the day I die...
;)
All these DRM/Copy protection schemes are an attempt to return us to the days before the Gutnburg printing press when an elite group (in those days the Church) were the only people who could read and write the Latin books and hence the only people that could interpret the Bible for you.
Add to this the fact that with a closed proprietary format then in X years time you may not be able to view content you've paid for (the hardware is no longer manufactured, the format is proprietary and the skills/information needed to decode it have been lost/forgotten)
What we have with all these schemes is utter barbarians trying to appropriate culture for their own use and profit.
Monopolise the means of production the means of distribution (digital certificates, DRM) and kill any minor players (independent producers who are priced out of the process) These people want an Eastern Bloc style Communist entertainment industry ! "The party makes good stuff huh and you will buy".
What cultural inheritance will our current generations leave for future historians ? Nothing at this rate (min you that could be a blessing for the ones to come
All together now.... vote with your wallets and just say no.
Sky subscribers are morons. They pay to be advertised at !
I'm known amongst friends and family as being literate in the world of dvd recording, and more and more, whenever I get asked to make a recommendation on a dvd recorder, I'm telling folks to keep the VCR in good shape. You want to record something; pop in a videotape, hit record, and play it as many times as you want.
But the world of dvd recording is getting more and more freakin' complicated with the bottom line being 'you can record it, but it won't play.' Right now, the geniuses in Hollywood haven't hit that 'enable CPRM' button, but once they do, it'll make trying to make a dvd home recording of Show X next to impossible, and the prevalent view amongst home viewers will be 'the savvy money held onto their vcrs.'
Combine this with the new ATSC format; 'ma, if you want to keep watching the soaps, you either need one of them there converter boxes or buy a new tv. And don't forget, you gotta watch it live because we haven't figured out how to get the vcr to work with the new converter box;' and you're guaranteeing that folks are going to be strongly motivated to simply turn the boob tube off. They will NOT understand what's happening to the tv and will not be willing/able to afford the new gear. Combine this with tales from their neighbours/kids of how the new, expensive, home recording gear doesn't really work and needs a University degree to understand how to use, and no one will be willing to touch anything new. Not the televised formats, not the new tvs, not the new dvd recorders.
The entertaiment industry will have what they absolute want; either you watch the show live, or you purchase the dvd box set. But the market for electronic goodies will absolutely collapse.
I still haven't bought a dvd recorder because of the standards that are basically a mess and waiting to see if it gets ironed out - but now it looks like it is going to get worse. I only want to put my home movies onto cd - I use the svcd standard - more cds but I don't care I just want the movies to last and be around for a while and share them with friends/family. I just hope the new players will still play this standard still- if not I will be very very pissed off. I don't record any movies or tv shows - heck I don't even watch tv except for sports (use to watch techtv - screensavers but now G4 has just destroyed that station and is nothing but crap now) - the movie/tv networks don't really put anything out these days that is worth pirating in my opinion. why don't they concentrate on that instead of being worried about stealing 24 hours of the day. Also is it me or to be an actor these days you just have to have a voice - nobody does acting anymore because they all make these computer animated movies.
There are two reasons a player won't play a DVD*R(W):
1. It can't handle the optical properties of the DVD*R(W).
2. It doesn't recognize the media type and refuses to play.
DVD+R(W) and DVD-R(W) use exactly the same materials. Once burned, the optical properties are identical (the differences are in the technology used for tracking the burning process), and the bit pattern of the same data is the same (assuming no record-time glitches that trigger Just-Link type compensation, and ignoring some extremely trivial differences such as the slight difference in the total number of burnable bits). So once burned, DVD+R(W) and DVD-R(W) optical compatibility is exactly the same.
So any player that can play + and not -, or vice-versa, is failing to play one format because it doesn't recognize the media type (and it is too stupid to give it a try instead of failing). There are utilities that allow DVD+R(W) burners to lie about the media type. This can make some players handle DVD+R(W) media better, but some players that worked before actually fail when they are lied to (I have one that will refuse to play a DVD+RW ID'd as a DVD-ROM, but works fine when it's ID'd as a DVD+RW).
The bottom line is that the argument over +/- compatibility is dead. They are equal. You may have a player that won't play one, but you'll find a matching person somewhere that has a player that won't play the other. DVD*R compability is well above 80%, and DVD*RW compatibility is over 50%. Both numbers go to near 100% if the player was made in the last couple of years. (DVD+R9 compatibility is still a question, because the price of the media is too high for there to be much market penetration so far. However, initial tests seem very promising.)
Xesdeeni