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eGenesis to Develop New MMO with Orson Scott Card
Johnathon Walls writes "eGenesis, makers of the non-combat, world-building massively multiplayer online (MMO) game "A Tale in the Desert" versions 1 and 2, has signed a deal with Orson Scott Card (author of Ender's game and The Seventh Son) to develop the pre-Civil War American world of "Alvin the Maker" into a new MMO. This is also going to be a non-combat-centered, community-building world. Questions remain as to the amount of interest these non-combat games generate, and concerns about the rapidly dropping population of Tale 2 (a steady decline from 2089 subscribers on Sep 26 to 1582 subscribers on Jan 6) really bring this issue to the forefront."
On the other hand, it can't be much worse than what they got in high school.
Behold the riant ape! Beware, his crooked thumbs!
Caveat: I'm a raving fanboy of Orson Scott Card's *writing*.
That being said, as much as I adore the Alvin Maker series, I'm not sure how that will translate into an MMORPG. Ultimately all such games require conflict as much as cooperation, and without combat, conflict feels lacking in many such games.
Issues of product aside, I'm hoping Orson Scott Card reaps fantastic gobs of money for the license for the stories/setting, as his work certainly is worth it.
"To pass through the jungle; silence, courtesy, ferocity, as the occasion demands." -- Kamau, "Proper Passage"
Each of these MMOGs is a full time, all night, every night ordeal. There's really enough room in our lives (and wallets) for one at a time.
I think he needs to stick with writing, there's plenty of MMOGs now and they're getting pretty good.
I'd like to see the Ender's Game universe turned into a MMORPG.
However, comments above are right, non-combat MMO's can be pretty boring. I tried the Tales games, and after 10 minutes the point was lost to me.
It boggles my mind as to how a member of one oft-persecuted minority group (Mormons) can justify persecuting another minority group.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
who have never read any of Orson Scott Card's work, run, do not walk, to the nearest bookstore/library and buy/check out/steal/photocopy Ender's Game.
For those of you who have read some of his novels but have never read his short stories, you should check out Maps in a Mirror, recently re-released in paperback. In particular, check out "The Hanged Man and the King of Words", "Unaccompanied Sonata", "Mikal's Songbird", "A Plague of Butterflies", uhm... look just buy the book ok.
And while I'm at it. There is a story in the book After the King called "Silver of Gold" by Emma Bull and another one called "The Fellowship of the Dragon" by Patricia A. McKillip, and well, you should read those too.
That's it.
Oh wait. Terry Pratchett is great too...
Oh, hello Nurse Ratchet...
[Sounds of scuffling in the background]
Must press submit...
That's it. Exploring and building get old quickly.
No combat??? I guess there is no option to explore the desert for oil in the game.
Finally, a massively multiplayer version of Tetris! (context)
I never really understood how a MMO would work if based off a "super hero" world. Basicly, this MMO will be set in an alternative world of a godlike Joseph Smith. What's the angle; everyone starts their own church? Can we all sit around and translate plates hidden in a hat? Are we suposed to work together to cross Hatrack River or cut diseased bone from Joseph's (excuse me, Alvin's) leg?
Seriously, why do people buy into Alvin's story? It's just a fantasized retelling of Joseph Smith's life.
And OSC's Homecoming Series was basicly a rewritten account of The Book of Mormon.
I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
Rubbish - so long as you make sure that the community and group building aspects are compelling enough.
Let's face it, the Hello Kitty MMO has the potential to be much bigger than any MMO so far. After all, grinding up trolls and beheading orcs with a magic axe are niche activities too
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I hear "Alvin the Maker" and think of a large sandworm with funny eyebrows.
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
would be a MMOTG (Tactical Game). One of my favourite game ever is Final Fantasy Tactics, and I always tought: "Goddammit, how cool it would be if it was multiplayer, and how GODLY it would be if it was MM!"
What I dislike about MMORPG is that you don't have the time to say "oh shit" that you are already dead in PvP. You don't have the time to talk to your opponents. Of course, if both players are nice RPers, maybe that they'll talk to each other, but has it ever happened to you with anybody else than people you already knew before combat? Have you ever tried to be a "Verbose PK" in UO? You can't. Combat goes too fast. Of course, you can macro some cool stuff to say, but it rapidly grows boring to say the same old stuff.
I'm saying this and I for one have no idea of a practical way to implement a game like that. Nevertheless, it would probably a MMO I would stick to. Or maybe it already exists and someone will tell me where I can find it?
perception is reality
I need one of these now?
I just spent like 300 bucks on a Radeon now I need an "Orson Scott" card.
Does linux have "Orson Scott" card support?
This is why consoles are so popular. Noone should have to buy new hardware every month just to play some crappy games.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
> Questions remain as to the amount of interest these non-combat games generate
If these games are to be popular past the "gee whiz, check it out!" phase, they need to let the player decide how much or how little time is appropriate.
No game or hobby that requires dozens of hours per week to achieve and kind of success is ever very popular. Life is too full things to do.
On an offtopic note: Is there a SF writer out there who is more right-wing than OSC?
Seriously, I'm trying to think of one.
Operator, give me the number for 911!
It's better to have a small community with a richly defined experience than a new game aimed at people who already have a mass produced outlet they are content with.
postmodernsideshow.com
ps Just because YOU don't understand this post doesn't mean it is off topic!
Lasers Controlled Games!
If you care for these "ultimate" reinventions Marvel is fond of (I only like Ultimate X-Men, myself), then it might interest you to know that Orson Scott Card is writing Ultimate Iron Man when it debuts in March. I'm not sure how long he's signed up for, but I'd guess no more than 12 issues. See here for details. For those not up on comics, the quick summary is that the "ultimate" line is Marvel's way of restarting their characters from scratch so as to draw in new readers who don't want to fuck around with the 40 years of storylines.
This makes it pretty obvious to me. Look at the levels people are reaching...
The levels are Student, Apprentice, Journeyman, Scribe... we'll stop there cause no one has gotten and further.
Now, looking at architecture, the highest level reached is apprentice.
Art & Music, NO ONE RANKS,
Body? Yeah, some apprentices here (you have to have a good body to fight)
Leadership, one Journeyman...
Thought, a few students
Worship, a decent amount here, not playing the game, I dont' know what benefits this gives.
Conflict: Wow, 8 people have made it to j'man here. Only worship scores higher.
So, the two most desired attributes are to be a good fighter and to be worshiped. Tells me that a non-fighting game is doomed.
I'll admit, I haven't played (well, I played the first when it was free) I'm getting all my info from the chart, so I may be all washed up.
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
Yay... Mormon propoganda is turned into a game. Get out your magical underoos
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
Thank you for pointing this out. I had no idea.
We recently had heard in the office over one of the Yellow Machine that's made by Anthology Solutions.
Here are my population estimates for some of the major MMORPG's.
Lineage: 2,000,000 subscribers
World of Warcraft: 600,000
Final Fantasy XI: 550,000
Everquest 1: 250,000
City Of Heroes: 200,000
Everquest 2: 150,000
A Tale in the Desert 2: 1,500
1,500 isn't much in the world of Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game's.
I played the original A Tale in the Desert quite a bit back in the day, and I've considered trying ATITD2 for a month to see what's new. I have to say that I did enjoy the original ATITD quite a bit for a while, the people at eGensis did a really great job putting together a non-combat MMORPG- but it did have problems.
I think the problem with the non-combat MMORPGs is the exact same problem as with more standard MMORPGs, just that it tends to show a bit more. The problem is the oft-discussed leveling treadmill.
A lot of people play more traditional MMORPGs because they like to gain prestige through having level 100 characters with +50 swords of dragon slaying and armor of holy protection and more money than god. In a non-combat MMORPG you take away those carrots, and basically all that's left is to see how boring a MMO game really can be at times. It's not that they are any more boring than City of Heros or Evercrack, just that without levels and rare items to work toward, the borning treadmill beneath the game shows itself a bit more
The real saving grace of ATITD was the community. With a relatively small number of people, and the afore mentioned lack of level and item status symbols, the game didn't attract griefers like many other games do, and I think that it helped having a good community, but at some point you realize that you are still doing the same thing over and over again.
Instead of "Go to A and kill mob X, then go to B and kill mob Y" it's "plant and harvest flax, let flax rot while mining for ore, seperate flax, start making cloth/canvas, make charcoal". Instead of levels, occasionally you'd get enough resources to learn a skill or complete a test.
I think the problem with many MMO games is the higherarcy of power- that is to say there really isn't one. You have the GMs who work for the company and will occasionally run games, and then you have a whole mess of players.
I think the solution to this will involve some way for players to create their own quests, more powerful characters will be able to exert more influence and run larger, more spread out quests. I think that this is the type of innovation that will probably start in a non-combat game at first anyway, if only because the logistics implementation are simpler when you don't have to deal with mobs and boss monsters and weapons and such.
Things like that were even starting to happen when I last played ATITD, larger guilds were offering rewards for rare items, or for hard-to-make items, so that they could build buildings or produce items.
I was a member of a medium sized guild, and there were cases where our guild would host a part and invite people and then offer up goods in exchange for players completing a quest, so that we could get items to trade up to a larger guild.
Anyway, I've been rambling on- somewhat incoherently, but what I was trying to say was this: I don't think the problem with non-combat MMO's is their lack of combat, I think that the problem is one that is systemic to the entire genre, and is only covered up cosmetically by the combat in more traditional MMO's. The decling interest in them is really just a symptom of the declining interest in the leveling treadmill that is present in all MMO games, however, I think that if done correctly, a non-combat MMO could bring some innovation that would eventually reach more traditional MMOs and revitalize the genre.
Famous Last Words: "hmm...wikipedia says it's edible"
Since Orson Scott Card is going to help out with this, I hope it will be entertaining in a different type of way; I get sick of games in which the point is to level your character etc. Maybe this will set a precedent to put more of a story into Mass Multiplayer games. Is this the first "proposed" MM game that will employ a master writer? It's the only one that I can think of...
University of Washington
Student
Some folks on here have suggested some of Orson Scott Card's fiction. I would also like to suggest some read his non-fiction. He is an outspoken critic of homosexuality and gay marriage. I read those works by Orson Scott Card and they were enough to convince me that I didn't want to read any of his fiction. Your mileage may vary, but it doesn't hurt to be an informed consumer.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
Does that mean it will have slave trading? That would be strange. I guess you could ignore that piece of history for the sake of the game. That would be a little strange, also.
As is customary on SlashDot, disapproval of homosexuality is equated with homophobia. One can disagree with something, and even speak against it, without fearing it (at least in the phobic sense).
"Homophobe" and "homophobic" are nothing but name-calling - terms used to avoid engaging serious discussion on a topic that the new liberal orthodoxy has declared decided, even as the vast bulk of Americans simply disagree.
As far as your comparison of Homosexuals and Mormons - are you seriously suggesting that there is no difference between religious faith and sexual practice? Are you seriously suggesting that we have a freedom of sexual practice comparable to our freedom of religious conviction? Are you seriously under the delusion that the status of homosexuality as a civil rights issue rather than a moral issue is settled?
The bottom line is that YOU are the innovator here, not Card. To act as though he must, necessarily, agree with your orthodoxy when your orthodoxy has thrown the orthodoxy of 30 years ago out the window, and that any failure to do so must only be because he is "homophobic", is downright insulting.
"He who would learn astronomy, and other recondite arts, let him go elsewhere. " -- John Calvin, commenting on Genesis 1
There are pacifists in the Army, we call them Medics.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
Ultimately all such games require conflict as much as cooperation, and without combat, conflict feels lacking in many such games.
Orson Scott Card is already quite experienced in video game combat. He wrote all of the insults for the insult swordfighting in Secret of Monkey Island, the first Monkey Island game. Although I guess this type of "fighting" is naturally inherent among players in MMORPGs in general, maybe he can make it fresh with less expletives and more wit.
"You fight like a dairy farmer!"
"How appropriate, you fight like a cow!"
Yeah, I can see this.
I, really, still do not see it. Maybe I would have to actually read the last book in the series. I see the overtones of a messiah, but.. come on? The only similarities I see are that Smith and Maker both wandered around the country picking up supporters.
For the ultimate OSC-style twist, the game could borrow a trick from Fable only in reverse. As you level up, your character would get younger until all of the high-level uber-characters were less than ten years old.
It's for Hatrackers. These folks have been doing role-play type posting in this "world" for more than a decade (they were going pretty heavy when I got to AOL, back when they used the GeoWorks interface). When Scott moved off of AOL to hatrack.com, they just moved over there, and have been going strong the whole time.
I don't think you're going to see this trying to be the next Everquest. The folks who want it will know about it (most already do) and we'll find out how many are willing to pay to use it. I'm not sure how it'll work out (I was never into the role-play part), but I know there are folks who will want to try it.
I'm lead designer on this project.
The Tales of Alvin Maker are not combat-free, and the would that we are building based on them isn't necessarily combat-free either. It's certainly not combat-centric, which puts it somewhere on the spectrum between most MMOs and a game like A Tale in the Desert. ATITD is, on the other hand, combat-free.
The other example is far too short-sighted. Of course there are short-term affects of therapy. However, the subject should not be considered closed until we examine these people years and years down the road. Having known a fair number of homosexuals rather well, most of them couldn't change if they wanted to. It's readily apparent, because, in their words, who would willingly choose a lifestyle that was so maligned?
As to your conclusion, I'm pretty much with you there. Government has no business redefining marriage. Its only involvement in matrimony should be the assigning of Fiscal costs/rewards for partnering, no more. Marriage has long been the province of religion and culture, and should have remained that way. Gov't should give gay people the equal footing they deserve in the financial world, and stay the hell out of the private beliefs and practices of the citizens.
Howdy.
Why? If there is only one Gender present does that mean the kid will never have any interaction with the "other" sex?
I wanted to comment on this issue about Sex and Gender and the well being of kids.
Believe it or not, there have been many, many psychological studies on this topic. And for the most part all of them conclude that a 2 gender parental enviroment is absolutely essential for 'normal, healthy, well adjusted' kids. And not for any religious reasons; I'll explain...
Notice how I say gender rather than sex; this is the key difference. Before the age of 12, kids need a 'Mom' figure in their life. They need someone to uncondionally love, nuture, and respond more with emotion than reason. It has been shown that babies recognize and respond more to their mother than father. Up until about the age of twelve, kids generally feel closer to their mother. Why? Because most women exhibit these traits. After the age of 12, this is when the 'father' role becomes essential. Someone who evokes a sense of trust, respect, independence, the ability to handle the world and deal with problems. At this point, both girls and boys start to respond and emulate their father figure until adulthood.
The stereotype 'Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus' really holds true. The vast majority of women fit the 'mom' psychological profile, and the vast majority of men fit the 'dad' role. There are fundamental hormonal diferences in the two sexes that prevent this for the most part. There are exceptions of course, but they are rare.
So for a gay parenting enviroment can work sucessfully, one or both of the parents need to exhibit enough traits of the opposite sex, to provide this necessary emotional resource for kids. In families that don't... both heterosexual and homosexual, children tend to grow up socially awkward and have many more problems in life.
The sending of this message pretty much inconveniences everyone involved.
Remember, there are no true synonyms in our language. Ethics and morality are close, but not the same.
Here's the thing--homosexuality is normal now. That makes people like you insecure, for some reason. And that insecurity makes people like me happy. I'm kind of an asshole that way, but what can I say? I really hate misoneism.
How do I know you're afraid? Because you seem to have spent a great deal of time researching one side of an issue you claim not to care about. You said they were "representative", so I guess that means I'm supposed to imagine there are a great deal more studies like these. It's interesting to note that these only "refute" the Gay Press (does the musical score in your head change ominously when you say those two words?), if you're assuming a rigid hetero/homo dichotomy--which is silly. If you start out thinking that there is a spectrum of sexualities that people are born with (the received view), then none of these studies refute that. You may have read more science, but it would have helped if you'd occasional taken a break and actually thought about what you'd read. Not really possible, given your level of bitterness. You might want to work on that first. Try some yoga or drinking tea. This is me being condescending, because I like to agitate you ignorant, fearful people. Sorry.
Furthermore, it is evident that "gay marriage" - at least among male homosexuals - is not equivalent to heterosexual marraige in an important respect. Namely, it is rarely, if ever, monogamous.
And might the fact a great deal of people feel the need to put gay marriage in scare quotes, suggesting its not a real marriage, have something to do with that? Or could it be self-fulfilling prophecy--we've painted homosexuality as something deviant, so now deviants are disproportionately more likely to admit their sexuality? Or might you be overestimating the monogamy of heterosexual unions?
Or, might it be none of your damn business whether they're actually monogamous or not--it's certainly not your business when we're talking about heterosexual couples, why do you feel a need to punish all homosexuals for the cheating or rule bending of a few? Do you have evidence that married gays are LESS monogamous that non-married gay couples? Any decrease in promiscuous sex of any subgroup is of public health benefit.
Plenty of heterosexuals get married only to adopt or remain childless. I see no reason why homosexuals ought not to do the same. Would they be ideal parents? No, but no living flesh and blood person is an ideal parent.
There was no sense in which homosexuality was regarded as an alternative to heterosexuality - instead, it was regarded as a fling, something that one did when young and with the young. (And, frankly, if you look up any authoritative source on this you will find this out. I'm not makign this up.
You are trying to tell me that there are no cases of exclusive homosexuality throughout history?
Perhaps you truly aren't homophobic. Or perhaps you are--you aren't helping yourself with the "I have lots of black friends" defense. But your insecurity seems more directed at some perceived academic and/or leftist orthodoxy. You are determined to prove--not only that you are learned, but that you are more learned than the other fellow. Perhaps you're a very gifted individual who missed a key opportunity in academia. To redeem yourself, you found a piece of somewhat uninhabited memetic turf (territory that people like me deemed to be bigoted) and built a fortress of logic and citations to sit upon it. You sit atop it and sing the praises of all that you have read. (And more importantly, that other people have NOT read.)
But a fortress of logic is a foolish thing