Slashdot Mirror
Toys For The Rich To Cultivate Product Popularity
ChipGuy writes "Newsweek is reporting on a new elitist club called the Silicon Valley 100, an exclusive group of venture capitalists and entrepreneurs like Marc Andressen, Esther Dyson, Chris Shipley, and Ross Mayfield. The Schwag Set will get a lot of free stuff which they will either recommend or not, to unsuspecting masses. Dan Gillmor thinks 'it is oddly creepy', and urges people on this list to 'bow out of this exercise entirely.' Om Malik says it ironic that 'the first product being offered is a shitter! What Crap!'"
Sorry, slashdot community :(
this is no different from hiring someone for a paid testimonial.
except that the reviewers are not necessarily going to present a positive review. why is this important?
-mkb
Even post bubble, vendors tend to take care of sales reps and techs...
This is why the Segway is so popular....
and the people who practice it are the children of the devil.
Just what the rich need... more stuff for free. How about giving the products to random Joes on the street with the requirement of getting a review from them on it?
but do most of them contain grammer this horrific? The linked article read more like a stream of consciousness e-mail (a poorly written one at that) than a published piece of literature.
I wish I had the influence for people to give me free things just so I could tell them it wasn't absolute crap!
"What do you think of this sir?"
"Meh." *Scuttles away with new toy.*
The Immortality Institute
At any rate, it's wrong to create any sort of poll or list and not have a CowboyNeal option. 'Nuff said.
Yah.. that's what i want. Advice from marc andressen..
Hey pal you gotta pay for Windows.
Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa
I wonder if one of the invitees responded with this Groucho quote:
I refuse to join any club which would have me as a member.
Andreessen Biography : http://www.ibiblio.org/pioneers/andreesen.html
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His career:
Beginnings at the University of Illinois
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Netscape
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What happened to Netscape?
Broken Hearts are for Assholes. - Frank Zappa
You haven't lived until you've experienced the pleasure of a toilet-seat bidet. These are becoming a standard fixture in Japanese homes. If you think North Americans have a good sense of hygiene (Slashdot denizen excepted), think again.
You'll never just wipe your ass again.
If you don't want to repeat the past, stop living in it.
As any PBS junkie knows, there is a market for everyday people willing to hawk a merchant's wares. What is disturbing is that it appears such people are in no short supply.
Word of mouth is the best form of advertising. What bothers me is that characters that push agendas under the guise of neutrality are becoming more prevalent all the time.
Here's hoping that one of the community's most revered icons never sells out.
I've been about the computer scene in general since I was 12, I'm 23 now... who are these people? why would I want to listen to them?
Just curious..
...Accepting free products is unethical, plain and simple.
If the companies that give out the freebies didn't think it would influence the recipients, they wouldn't do it.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
I'm in an even more elitist club called Cowards Anonymous 1.
That'd make for some great Schwag Set blogging!
-- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
sub-plot out of William Gibson's novel Pattern Recognition.
Si vis pacem, para bellum! For evil to succeed good men need only do nothing!
l3371575 600d, Elitists bad.
wake up dudes, the world works in a hierarchical fashion not because it can but because in fact this works well. Look at how scientific research works. Sure there might be lots of little folks that could be great seniour researchers if only they could get funded. But it costs too much to identify these folks. Its better in general to go with a trusted senoir researcher than require omniscience on the part of funding agencies.
that was the long recognized flaw of the command economy in russia. it could not effectively gather the information that a market economy could
thus elitism as a filter to diseminate useful information about a limited availability product in an optimal fashion is not a bad idea.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I don't think I need anything else in society.
:)
/.!
:)
This is a good place to find friends who actually do know what they are talking about most of the time
Where else can you be modded so democratically?
God/Allah/Jesus/(your own pick) bless
BTW I use toilet paper, step on the flusher and wash my hands every time thank you very much!
Where else can you be modded so democratically?
-1, democracy in action Muhahahaha.
So you're saying he's the tech community's version of Paris Hilton? Seems fitting, because although he might not have appeared in porn, he seems to be quite the connoisseur of porn.
I know god exists. I read it on the internet, so it must be true.
This is such a normal and acceptable process that it annoys me this is even posted here. People with products have to create buzz, and one way is with a silent salesman type thing like this. This is in no way similar to paying something to talk up your product.
I'd hate to sound like I'm accepting of this sort of nonsense, but since when is any of this actually news? It's been going on for a long time in some form or another. I've seen it happen and I've seen the very amusing reactions companies generate when what they thought was a sure-thing positive review backfire horribly. I'm not entirely certain why it's suddenly some sort of big deal now though.
Moderation -1
100% Troll
Oh, c'mon. Maybe "Flamebait" - Andreesen probably reads Slashdot, and was never above a flamewar before the Netscape PR team made him stop posting to Usenet. But every fact in my post is true. Andreesen, could you be a Slashdot moderator? The Web is now complete.
--
make install -not war
This book is a great read, and discusses how epidemics (such as Palm Pilots) get started, and how to take advantages of 3 major types of people (Mavens, Connectors, and Salesman), as well as how to tune your product/idea so that it too can become an epidemic.
Incorrect. You do not hyphenate "-ly" adverbs such as "poorly". Please see:
http://www.getitwriteonline.com/archive/042703.htm
The entertainment elite are constantly given free stuff in the hope that their wearing/using/talking about it will promote the product.
It's a truism in hollywood that nobody will give a dime to struggling actors who could really use a hand, but once they make it big and don't need anything from anyone, they are practically buried in freebies - free clothes, free cars, free tickets, free jewelry, free beer, you name it they get it all for free.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
I tried folowing your link and am receiving:
Server Error
The server encountered a temporary error and could not complete your request.
Please try again in 30 seconds.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Nobody ever asks me to be their spokeswhore. Curse you, marca! Curse you and your squirty toilet.
Speaking of squirty toilets. I think that you should all know that Mr. Andreessen had the stinkiest shits in the universe. There was many a time when I'd be about to go into the bathroom, and someone coming the other way would shake their head and say "Captain's Log."
are the ones who get it for free? And they get it free to try to convince the rest of us to pay for it? Gee, I'd be rich too if people kept giving me free stuff.
I lost my copy of the green golf ball joke can anyone find it for me?
It's not that these people are elitist... or whatever. In countries such as the U.S., corporations feel they must dupe the general poplulace into buying their rubbish by hanging it around the neck of the elite. Since the elite aren't stupid, the purveyors of this crap have to hand it over to them basically for free. Then, like a bunch of good lemmings (yes, I know Walt faked that, but the metaphor serves) every moron runs out and buys it because some rich bugger has it... and the rich themselves are not immune (e.g. the Humvee). It supports my addage: the more you have, the more you get for free.
There was an interview with Trump recently, where he talks about how most of the time if he goes to a restaurant he doesn't frequent, they give him the food! Now why would they do this? (hint: it's not because he can't pay) It's because just maybe he'll like it, and he might mention it somewhere, and if he does there will be people listening. His opinion can change your restaurant from an unknown hole-in-the-wall to an A-list establishment. Even if he doesn't, they can boast about how Trump came to their restaurant.
Companies want rich people to use their products, because others will follow. Nobody buys a product because they saw poor people using it, in fact, in many cases they will avoid such products. It's been the same cycle for hundreds of years, common people trying to be like the rich, who usually in turn try to avoid aped by the common people.
Shaq gets megabucks (and free footwear) for convincing you to buy overpriced Nikes. The only real difference is you know he's being paid to do that.
Wow, what a slow news day... An article on rich people getting free stuff. ,=- * * * this article
I certainly was planning to be open about how I got products if I talked about them. I suspect most of the other folks are too. I jotted a brief note in my blog about it like some of the others.
It's really not some sort of elitist club, not even a club, nor much that new.
I do agree that by giving stuff to folks who write or are influentical, they do increase the chances that they will get written about. I presume that's their goal. There are certainly no requirements that we speak fondly of the products, but the historical tradition is people are far more likely to evangelize a new product they've seen than they are to curse something new nobody knows about, so on the balance it's been a win for vendors to do giveaways like this.
I know in the old days of magazines it was worse. Most software reviews were good for the same reason. If an obscure product came along and was bad, they just didn't write about it. If it was good, they might write. If it was famous or the company pulled enough strings (ie. bought lots of advertising) that got them a review, even at places with decent editorial firewalls, though it didn't assure a good one. If you saw a scathing review, it usually meant the company was so famous they had to review the product, or the company had pushed super hard to get one, good or no.
Truth is though, I, nor most of the people on the list aren't bought so easily. If you hear about something from somebody, you should judge how much you trust them in general, not whether they got the thing free.
If you think about it, what logic in there is giving a false good review for a bribe, if the bribe is a free version of the product you don't like very much?
Has it been over a year since you last donated to the Electronic Frontier Foundation
How do I start the Slacker 100. 100 slackers with blogs and websites that didn't cash in on the Tech boom to get free schwagg. Heck we can start small with a free bottle of Bawls, and Ipod mini's.
Slacker #1 right here who is with me?
---In a time of Chimpanzees I was a Monkey.
No, Shaq gets megabucks to _try_ to convince me to buy Nikes. There's a difference.
I lost my copy of the green golf ball joke can anyone find it for me?
The parent post is both funny and insightfull because it gives a great example of the obvious flaw. I have seen one Segway in my entire life (looked like the kid got it second hand). I was looking forward to what was billed as a "revolution in personal transport". It had marketing megaflop written all over it when the "secret broke", slow, expensive and impractical compared to existing skateboards, push bikes, rollerskates and wheel chairs.
The problem with elitist thinkers is that because they had one briliant idea in the past, everyone thinks all thier future ideas and opinions will automatically be just as brilliant. Normally they just come up with crap that ends up on late night infomercials.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
PV: Exuse me Sir,...
Man in street: Gimme that!
&^myeye#@$myeye%(*@
@#!$$%-owwww-*&%$
Man in street: Thanks. Now fuck off geek or I'll kick your arse again!
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
This group is people who have established credibility and are being offered stuff for their opinions of it: like record, book and movie critics.
Indeed, the high reputations of those on the list is what makes the whole thing so nasty. Bill Gates was just bragging about this kind of cheesy scheme in a BBC interview:
He was talking about the media center, the one that blew up on him in public with dismal sales. News flash, Bill, it has to work for people to say they like it.
I don't know if this M$NBC article is tied to that effort, but it is the lowest form of "influence" purchase I've seen yet. Microsoft has always pursued this strategy to one extent or another, giving product to people who they think will be influential. In the past, they pushed product onto business schools and other places that might not know better. That was low but fair enough. This effort, where the recipients are identified before receiving anything combines that game with another one, falsely attributing approval or endorsements. It takes the "smart people use M$" lie to a personal level and that's reprehensible.
It's not a spiff to a salesman or product to a writer, they are trying to hijack other people's reputations in an effort to push buggy crap. The company that gave us the "Apple Switcher" and forged letters to representatives is not above such things. If there's anything Microsoft is an innovator with, it's astroturf. We shall see where this goes, but where it comes from is clear.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Sure but those people have made careers out of bathing in publicity. This list is composed of private people who may or may not enjoy someone claiming an endorsement from them. Don't put fake endorsements past the marketing department that gave you the Apple Switcher and is famous for name dropping whenever it can. The "creepy" reaction is right on target.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
"How about giving the products to random Joes on the street with the requirement of getting a review from them on it?"
You mean like when you get a survey through the mail with a dollar enclosed?
"There was many a time when I'd be about to go into the bathroom, and someone coming the other way would shake their head and say "Captain's Log.""
Hehe. You should have been at our place when the company had "Mexican Night Buffet". I believe they had to turn off the smoke detectors to prevent false alarms.
Big Dog: "I want the toilet seat." Little Dog: "I want the toilet seat." Big Dog: "_I_ want the toilet seat." Little Dog: "Ehh... hmmm... I want the toilet seat!"
Sig for hire.
If you haven't heard of bzzagent, this is well worth reading and being aware of:. html?ex=1259989200&en=6dc3f3878659a642&ei=5090&par tner=rssuserland
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/05/magazine/05BUZZ
(nytimes registration required, yadda yadda)
It too references Wm. Gibson's "Pattern Recognition" in its investigation into this insidious marketing technique.
Esther Dyson's dad...Mr. Dyson sphere himself
"Aye. An actual Dyson Sphere."
Make the pain stop....jpg
...with this kind of 'behind the scenes' buzz-making is that
a) These people are not really trained to evaluate products properly and
b) They probably don't have the time to do it well even if they were trained.
The reason these buzz schemes don't want to use journalists or other professional reviewers is that journos know what to look for in products they're reviewing. They have the experience with similar types of product, and know of potential pitfalls which can slip past the amateur reviewer. That's not to say that 'ordinary' folk aren't useful for giving 'epinions' type evaluations, but for the most part if you rely on these reviews for an in-depth analysis you're leaving yourself open to all sorts of disappointment.
For example, just read the forums when any new mobile phone comes out. It will be full of generic comments like 'wow, the screen on this rockz' etc. What about if that screen only lasts for a year before the backlight blows it up, or it sucks up significantly more battery life than alternatives? Professionals will pick up on that kind of hidden danger much better than amateurs. They're not perfect, but I'd rather rely on a journalist appraisal than some rich tech celebrity any day!
Just take a look at the "successful" people around you. Look at the way they behave. Often they have got where they are through bullying, backstabbing, cheating, lying and double standards. Look at how they drive, look at their politics, look at their opinions.
They are often the people perpetuating the pointy-haired culture and foisting it on the rest of us.
Look at what they've done to previosuly mighty companies as a result of their "education" and beliefs (HP anyone?).
Giving them products to evaluate is going to further entrnch the decline of Western engineering companies.
Stick Men
You do realize that the Washlet is made by TOTOUSA, which is a subsidiary of TOTO Ltd., which basically makes every freaking toilet in Japan.
But to agree with your original post, yes, electric bidets have been around for ages over here in East Asia.
I find this story interesting because I worked on implementing a similar project 7 years ago. The idea was, the consulting firm I worked for would partner with CNN to select the "100 most influential people in the world." These people would be given special IBM laptops they'd use to log onto a web site every so often to answer brief surveys. CNN could then take that information and, I don't know, build a show around it or something.
I helped build the prototype web site (which looked pretty cool for '98, IMHO) and a presentation promoting the project. The project never got off the ground, though. I guess there wasn't enough incentive for those "thought leaders" to answer the surveys. But free schwag is a pretty good idea for soliciting feedback.
Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
These people aren't really so much "rich", as "famous". Their wealth derives from mainly from their punditry, which is usually less insightful than merely choosing what trend to comment on. The echo chamber nature of their layer of society, where one "right place, right time" win, even for the "right person", put them in a role defining other places/times which have never been nearly so fortunate. This marketing system harnesses their spokesmodel power directly, discarding the veil that these celebs have any real insights. So there's no scandal in "reducing" these pundits to pitchpersons for their vested interest; that's all they ever have been. Any reduction in their credibility by revealing their vaunted "synergies" as "conflicts of interest" can only help the rest of us get over them.
--
make install -not war
The reality is that these Silicon Valley members can say whatever they want about the Swash. They don't get paid. The company gives up a lot of $ in product to try and get word of mouth out. This product is just like Tivo -- you need evangelists to tell you how awesome the Swash is. Once you try it, you'll never go back. I know. I use one everyday and the heated seat alone makes me happy to go to the bathroom - a place I previously hated due to cold toilet seats. The warm water wash functions are the icing on the cake. Nobody paid me to say this.
would never even peak at this