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Nintendo Revolution Rumours Emerge
In more next-gen console news, ComputerandVideoGames.com has rumourmongering info on the new Nintendo console. Interesting bits like gyroscope sensing controllers and an online service make for intriguing ideas, but no details yet on what's going to make this console a revolution. From the article: "And what's revolutionary about Revolution? The inside source claims that talking about that "would get him into too much trouble" ... He is quoted as saying: "if you think too hard you'll never guess what it is. It's nothing 'new', technically speaking. It's just something that hasn't really been applied to videogames yet."
or did Nintendo plan to get out of the console market to concentrate on portables a few years ago?
thumb trackball.
kind of a d-pad + the analog control into one...
just a thought.
One of the rumors mentioned in the article:
Motion and tilt-sensing gyroscopes will be used in the controllers.
Great! Why don't we go and encourage those annoying people who love to swing their controller around even though it makes no difference. Well now it will! I wonder how this would be incorporated into a fighting game...
Actually, just thinking about doing a barrel roll in a flying game makes me want to try this out, silly a feature as it seems.
why? forty-two.
Perhaps Nintendo will decide that in order to gain back market share it needs a revolution in the type of games they release.
The latest Nintendo console was fun to play on, but even given the cheap price I could find very little software that I wanted to buy. Everything halfway decent that got offered was either first-party mascots or available on another console. To me, this is really the way Nintendo needs to revolutionize itself.
Another spurt of speculation about Nintendo's next-gen console splashes onto the net. Full details and stunningly predictable Nintendo response inside
10:47 A fat bundle of Nintendo Revolution speculation has belly-flopped onto the internet, causing fansites across the world to spontaneously combust with excitement.
According to hazy and totally unofficial reports, Nintendo's next-gen console will come broadband-enabled with an online service in the works, feature a hard drive, use controllers fitted with tilt-sensing gyroscopes, allow connectivity with the next-gen GameBoy, and play host to new Mario, Zelda and Super Smash Bros. games. The 'revolutionary' aspect of Revolution is also hinted at - "if you think too hard you'll never guess what it is."
The sketchy information - which we were sent direct last week and have been investigating - originally surfaced on a gaming forum, with the poster quoting an inside source. To be fair to the bloke who broke these rumours, he did preface his speculation with the assertion that his source had been wrong as well as correct in the past, and estimated there was a "65% chance" of the accuracy of these claims.
Here's the rundown of the alleged Revolution information:
- Motion and tilt-sensing gyroscopes will be used in the controllers. They will not come wireless as standard but the Revolution will have four pad ports like GameCube.
- The console will be powered by twin processors and will feature an internal hard drive. Games will come on HD-DVD format discs rather than Sony's Blu-Ray format.
- Broadband online gaming will be available out of the box via Nintendo's own service, which is currently "in development" and will be rolled out first on DS.
- The Revolution will not feature connectivity with the DS but will link up to Nintendo's next-gen GameBoy.
- Work has already begun on new Mario, Zelda and Super Smash Bros. titles, all of which are to be available at launch.
And what's revolutionary about Revolution? The inside source claims that talking about that "would get him into too much trouble" (whereas the rest of this stuff will presumably get him a pat on the back). He is quoted as saying: "if you think too hard you'll never guess what it is. It's nothing 'new', technically speaking. It's just something that hasn't really been applied to videogames yet."He then signed off in deliciously enigmatic fashion with, "Touching is good but feeling is better."
Force feedback gloves? Electrodes attached to dangly parts of your anatomy? A force feedback full body glove made out of lycra? It's a proper riddle - answers on a postcard, or even better, in the forums below.
And it's a riddle Nintendo itself unsurprisingly doesn't have much to say about. When we contacted our spokesperson we were told: "Nintendo does not comment on rumour and speculation."
So what are we to make of this? The information itself does seem fairly informed and - in stark contrast to a lot of rumours that spark on the 'net - relatively sane. It doesn't instantly smack of the deranged ramblings of a semi-illiterate monkey.
But it also has that air of calculated vagueness and educated guesswork that at once lends it credibility and damages that same credibility. Are any of the alleged 'facts' offered about Revolution really anything that anyone with a little bit of knowledge about Nintendo itself and the games industry in general couldn't have come up with?
Not to worry - it looks increasingly likely that Nintendo is gearing up to unleash the Revolution at E3 in May. We'll know the answers for sure then, and as soon as we know, you'll know.
Well, this may be hit or miss. Nintendo's "innovations" have either been huge successes or horrible failures. Some of these innovations include:
My bet is on something with voice-recognition, and I hope that it is a success. If it is voice-recognition, I hope they don't overuse it, like they have overused the rumble feature of controllers.
Note to self: Stop putting jokes in my insightful comments so I can get something other than +1 Funny!
Hasn't this already been proven by games like Rez and sites like GGA? :D
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Work has already begun on new Mario, Zelda and Super Smash Bros. titles, all of which are to be available at launch.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
I've said it before, but I'll say it again. Here's what my imagination "predicts" about the revolution.
Revolution = wireless DS hub + broadband ethernet.
16 people with DSes sit around a revolution in one city and play on a team against 16 people sitting around a revolution with DSes in another city. a 16vs16 person game where everyone has two screens and a controller. Also the revolution hooks up to a tv to provide the "big screen" for the whole team to see.
And that's taking it to the extreme. If you just keep it simple with something like internet enabled smash brothers with a new innovative control scheme you've already struck gold.
Nintendo is making the video game hardware that is truly revolutionary by innovating the game interface. They started by inventing the first real gamepad (the plus) and now the're taking it a step further. The only problem is that they do not make software that takes full advantage of the potential of the platform. And the quantity of software that takes advantage is not enough. I think it is because they are very protective of their dev kits, unlike Sony and MS who are very open in this area.
The GeekNights podcast is going strong. Listen!
A light weight headset for VR?
nothing really new... not really applied to gaming.. REVOLUTION (ie full freedom of movement) GYROSCOPES...
hello?
That is my thinking.
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so true! I really wouldn't mind never playing a mario/zelda game ever again!
Stick GTA:SA on there (or pay them a cool million or so to make it exclusive to your new console... hello sales!)
That is what I would do. But even if every single GTA ever released in the future was only on XBOX, I still wouldn't buy one.
Bah.
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I think the most interesting tidbit in this rumor is that the Revolution may actually come with a built in hard drive! Sony's already said they're not going to have one, and Xbox 2 is still iffy on it. I think the hard drive was the best feature of the Xbox and I'm very glad to see Nintendo having one too (if it's true).
"A truly wise man realizes he knows nothing."
Meanwhile, if we look at what we actually know, this set of rumors has two small details that don't seem that they could be true. So putting aside "sources", here's what we can predict about the stuff in this article based on what Nintendo's actually said and done:
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
have you ever PLAYED a Mario or Zelda game? They're fun and know no age.
sure there is a lot of potential unoriginality in tried and true game franchises, but there are also guaranteed results, and in the case of Zelda and Mario, the results are ALWAYS great.
I see the fact that they'll have Mario and Zelda titles on release to be a very good thing. Mario and Zelda are part of what make Nintendo consoles great.
There are lots and lots of titles on XBox and PS2, but 99/100 of those suck. in fact the only good games for xbox are halo and halo 2. If xbox didn't have Halo it wouldn't have anything. A more powerful graphics processor does not make a good game console on its own. A networked crappy game is still a crappy game.
I know maybe 8 people with Xboxes, and all of them have modded their box to play MAME and NES/SNES games. They rarely use their XBoxes for XBox games, and two of those eight people sold all their xbox games because they were never played.
Games make the console. Nintendo has them, more good fun games than any other game company to this day.
I don't think either of them can beat Sony and the other.
I'm betting on DS connectivity, in part because the downableable play feature of the DS makes it so easy. So there is 16 player games with per-player private information.
Extending the gyroscope sensor rumor, hasn't anyone else thought it weird that Twisted is coming to GBA instead of DS? Of course the bigger cartridge means the sensors fits easier. I foresee GBA styled cartridges for the DS just for similar sensors that work for DS cartidge and download play games. Twisted may already as such a cartidge. So the DS in your hands right now has an "expansion slot" for future controller compatibilty allowing it to meet Revolution controller needs (especially if you count the touch screen as the analog controller, as Mario 64 DS treats it).
2. A system with a visor screen display that created a "true" 3D display
The person responsible for that miscalculation, Nintendo got him fired, then rubbed out. I do not think Nintendo engineers will be making mistakes of that kind in future.
If we're going by the "Touching is good but feeling is better." hint my guess is that it's some sort of tactile force feedback in the controller. Or at least that's my hope. While force feedback can be fun(see Metal Gear Solid for one it's best uses) most games use it for just another effect when your character gets damaged or something basic like that.
I remember reading about these tactile feedback control in video games a few years back. They had motors in the controller that responded to what was going on in the game. For example, if you had a character walking up a hill the controller stick would respond back by pushing in the opposite direction so that you could feel how tough it was going on up the hill. The only big drawback was that I imagine controllers like that were pretty expensive.
I can't imagine the price being much cheaper now but if there's anyone I would expect to try it out in their controllers(even if it's on a really basic level) it would be Nintendo. With the exception of the Gamecube(and some of their portables) they have tried to put something new into each controller design. NES d-pad, SNES shoulder buttons, N64 analog stick, etc. Even if this all speculation, if Nintendo doesn't try this for their next-gen system someone else should.
-Shawn "If the Name Don't Rhyme It Ain't Mine" Conn
Xbox has about as many decent games as PS2 and Nintendo, they're all about equal. Just Xbox and PS2 crappy game:good game ratio is a bit higher than the Gamecube.
PS2 comes out with the new GTA's first, Metal Gear, Gran Turismo, etc.
Xbox is still new and trying to find their niche. But in the meantime you have Halo, Halo 2, KOTOR, Fable, Ninja Gaiden and they currently have the BEST online console on the market with XBox Live.
Nintendo has Mario, Zelda, Metroid, and now Resident Evil. All are pure classics and make for FUN games.
Violence doesn't neccessarily make a game fun. Heck, look at all of us who played Tetris for hours and hours. Currently I own all 3 systems and play them all equally, they're all good in their own regards.
Nintendo has underestimated me! They have leaked enough info about the "secret" features of this console that I have been able to narrow down what they are!
Given that:
I can say with reasonable certainty that the new addition is either:
Clearly, whatever Nintendo has planned, they are taking steps to avoid the fiascos associated with the last couple of platforms and leap into first or second place in the console market!
... then again, maybe not. Nintendo's corporate slogan: Third party developers - who needs 'em?
It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.
It's nothing 'new', technically speaking. It's just something that hasn't really been applied to videogames yet
Clearly the Nintendo Revolution with be the first video game console that is fully edible! I can hardly wait.
Trees can't go dancing
So do them a big favor
Pretend dancing stinks!
...When Nintendo developed the 64DD, they originally wanted to have it so you can write a large amount of data to the cartridge, for sustainable worlds (think something like Fable)... Remember the ill-fated Mother 3? I think Nintendo will have an HD to cash in on something like this.
seems rumors are their new form of ads, must save them a lot...
for the DS, I never saw any ads on it (I don't have cable, but I've asked some people and they didn't either)
By reading this, you have given me brief control of your mind.
That actually sounds very similiar to the little yellow camera stick on the GameCube controller. That thing that's never used :-)
Forget the whales - save the babies.
".. they still don't get it..."
Whoopee, you don't like Zelda or Mario. Nintendo's still making millions off them.
"Derp de derp."
get creamed and really feal the pain
VR gear. A headmount display that puts you literally into the gameplay. All you see is the world around you and the gyroscopes can be mounted in the headgear, so you turn more with your head and body, than the controller, and the controller could be used for activating weapons and forward/backward movement. It falls in line to what he said "revolutionary, but nothing technically new". VR gear has been around for over a decade, I believe, and have seen it used in the big arcades as far back as 1997 (I used to work at XS New York). I just hope they have resolved the cooling issues by the time it's launched.
Other ideas, some other simpler force feedback device.
on realdoll link if you are sitting in work good post otherwise
"all through my house i set up traps, it seems like the rats have a map, so now i feed the rats crack" - Donald D
Call me jaded, but I just don't believe the Revolution is going to have anything that's going to knock our socks off. That said, here's something that might make things interesting.
How about a MMO game that makes use of GPS enabled DS units interacting via hot spots with online Revolution home players. This would be a game that makes use of the whole Earth as its play space. Perhaps Revolution units themselves would be the hot spots. If the Revolutions have hard drives, each one could store some of the game data describing its locale in the game world.
I think there's a Gizmondo game coming up that moves in this direction. But if Revolution consoles are themselves access nodes to the game for mobile units, that would be different. Games that break down the barriers between the game world and the real world would be truly revolutionary, or subversive, depending on your point of view.
To the making of books there is no end, so let's get started
It will either be a cheap camera used for input based on body gestures or it will be running Linux, not some proprietary game loader.
My money is on linux.
So... more games in the long-running but innovative Zelda franchise equals BAD, but more games in the long-running but innovative GTA franchise equals GOOD?
I don't quite follow your reasoning. Why is innovation from Nintendo worse than innovation from Rockstar?
He's already said that (to paraphrase) he'd be very interested if Nintendo wanted to talk about being bought out by Microsoft.
The 'revolutionary' aspect of Revolution is also hinted at - "if you think too hard you'll never guess what it is."
I know what it is: the return of the Power Pad! Without it, you can't Dance Dance on the Revolution.
Here we have rumors which a random person on a game forum says he got from an unidentified source which has had a 65% success rate in the past. Furthurmore, the news "doesn't instantly smack of the deranged ramblings of a semi-illiterate monkey" and therefore is probably accurate.
My former roommate's ex-girlfriend's uncle was talking to this guy on the bus who said that his wife's hairstylist knows someone who sat beside this guy on a plane whose sister-in-law is a janitor at Nintendo and she says none of those rumours are true.
The Revolution will have 802.11. There's no other way to connect to the DS.
Other than the GBA slot, renamed the "Option Pak slot" when in DS mode?
I hereby put forward the position that it is YOU who does not get it.
GT4, MGS3, Halo 2, Jak 3, Ratchet 3, GTA/GTA2/GTA3/VC/SA.
"Interesting bits like gyroscope sensing controllers"
GYROMITE!!!!
Because Now You're Playing with Power(TM)!
"if you think too hard you'll never guess what it is. It's nothing 'new', technically speaking. It's just something that hasn't really been applied to videogames yet."
I'll wager that it's a bicycle.
America's enormously obese youth are about to get a tad healthier.
Yes, because there's nothing like naming three game titles that nobody knows a damned thing about to boost pre-release buzz.
if you THINK too hard...you'll never guess Perhaps it's thought controlled? Even if it's not reading your mind, it could be bioreactive. Like the IBM blueeyes, combined with a head tracker, microphone, and pule sensor in the controller and electro-shock pads on your body for feedback.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
Actualy, Zelda is more just getting it all right, with the cool puzzles, and the fun combat, and the cliche storyline, where as GTA is all about doing the exact same game over and over and over, just a lot better each time, and with new missions, and stuff to do.
The original GTA was innovative, as was the original Zelda, but after that it is mostly just Refine, Milk, Repeat.
Not that I'm complaining.
Virtual Boy : The Next Generation
"Nintendo Revolution Rumours Emerge"
"EA's Plans for Xbox 2"
"Cultural Blinders Lead to Nintendo Fallacy"
Fuck sake, Zonk, find some actual news to report or quit. I don't think anyone would blame you at this point.
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Nah - he's just another one who would only admit to liking Zelda if it were full of profanity and sex. It's just not cool otherwise.
emerge --search "nintendo revolution rumous" did anyone else read it as that?
www.TECHNETIUM.net.au
that the new system will be the Game Icosahedron. It will be revolutionary in that it will be the first 20-sided game system ever. How will Sony and Microsoft compete with that?
Think of how many tabletop gamers would buy one just because it's shaped like a d20.
This rumor has been circulating for a while now. Maybe they should change it to "Old News for Nerds. Stuff that mattered a week ago."
Its probably just an ass joystick like that vehicle in Southpark. Sorry I can't quote from memory the complete transcript of the episode, i am not that much of a nerd.
If you think too hard... - I reckon it's a brainwave sensor. Some games will require you to be calm or excited to gain special powers or pass a bad guy. There might be "meditation" levels in beat-em-ups.
1. All three will be using processors from IBM.
2. All three will be as small or smaller than existing systems.
3. All three will have advanced graphics and sound capabilities, and will be able to function as digital entertainment hubs.
4. They will all retail for under $500.
Conclusion: All three of the next generation gaming consoles will actually be Mac minis.
Revolution. As in "Now you can actually play games from the previous system on the new one" revolution.
... or, ressurect it and then settle it... I'm the only one who's ever debated that, aren't I.
And when is Sonic going to be put in a Smash Bros. game? It's time to settle the "Mario v. Sonic" debate once and for all.
IAARS, and have looked into the use of accelerometers for a few different things; armature satellite use, for one. They simply do not have the resolution you need. Gyros WORK, and are insanely accurate over a very wide range. Accelerometers work for large accelerations (> 0.1G is what I found) but not small, or have a very narrow bandwidth -- they either saturate at high acceleration or don't respond to low acceleration.
In game terms, what this generally means is that for the 'Oh crap I am about to wreck' spastic twitch response the controller would respond. For the 'Controlled entrance into a long turn' you would get nothin'.
Another VERY important aspect of gyros is that they can sense orientation as well as acceleration; in fact, a gyro WORKS by sensing displacement over time, where as a MEMs accelerometer works by sensing the voltage generated by a displacement, the displacement being proportional to the acceleration applied, and the displacement only exists while the system is actually undergoing acceleration.
Key point is that you have to integrate to get position for the MEMS, as opposed to HAVING position and HAVING acceleration; both being essentially equally accurate because you are physically measuring them. The gyro simply cannot saturate (in this use!). Even if you exceed the resolution (# of times you sample position per second) of the device, it still 'knows' that it was displaced, say, 30 degrees between position read at time A and position read at time (A + 0.01). If you saturate the MEMS it has no idea where it is. Thus you couldn't use the MEMS controller in something like a flight simulator, where the controller orientation is the orientation of the airplane, or where the orientation of the controller indicates the turning angle of a race car; you would have to have a 'recalibrate' button on the controller, just in case you jerked the controller too hard (or dropped it).
* More accurate re: measurements:
-- The error in the MEMS is caused by the error in the reading of the voltage vs displacement
-- The error in the Gyro is from the accuracy of the measurement of position; this is more well known and varies less with environmental factors such as temperature and humidity. Typically going to be easier to have a high read accuracy.
-- Both* also have a bit of clock error based on the sampling rate.E.g. if your sample rate is 100Hz, you may really be sampling 99 or 101 times per second. For the gyro this does NOT have anything to do with the position, just the acceleration.
--> Gyro acceleration error is proportional to (position error + clock error). There are some error coefficients in there, but they are constants.
--> The MEMS acceleration error is proportional to (acceleration error + clock error)
Here is the problem with MEMS:
--Gyro position error is simply the position error. However:
-- MEMS position error is proportional to (acceleration error + clock error)*(# of samples). Ouch.
* You have to remember that there is a derivative of acceleration as well; sampling rate DOES matter for the MEMS.
haha. Please ignore my horrible typos: for one, I have never worked on an armature satellite. Only an amateur one.
Ok, so they say "dont think too hard" yet its "revolutionary" for game consoles.
Dual-heads anyone? It'd be cheap and easy to implement, and give a totally new dimension to multiplayer gaming on consoles...
Plus they already did something a little bit similar on the DS, so why not?
I own all 3 consoles and I prefer using the xbox when I can, because it has better graphics and the controllers are better. I use the game cube only because it has some titles that you can't get any where else. And ps2 sometimes gets titles before the xbox does (like san andreas).
The analogs for the ps2 feel weird (sometimes they are to sensitive other times they are not senstive enough). Nintendo controllers give me callous on my right index finger, this is because the triggers have a ridge above them that you can use your index fingers to help hold the controller with and when you are pressing buttons and triggers constantly it can give you a callous.
I'm not saying nintendo is bad, I'm just saying Xbox is not. And just because where ever you live and the people you know don't really use them, that doesn't mean no one else in the world does.
And Nintendo has other good qualities beside a few good titles, it also has a number of party titles for four or more friends. This is there solution to the online game play that other consoles provide, and it works in some cases. Some one who has a bunch of gamer friends can do this once in a while, but loners will find it easier to find people to play with online then to get a bunch of friends together in the same room to play some smash brothers, mario kart, mario party, godzilla, bomberman, etc.
Anyway I like the Gamecube and XBox... ps2 is more questionable. But that is my opinion, I have a number of gamer friends who share the same opinion, although some of them don't even have gamecubes. And during last christmas it was harder to find xboxs and ps2s, but gamecubes were everywhere. Is Nintendo's strategy working? I don't think that it necesarily is.
And there is where you hit the nail on the head. I halfway seriously predict that Nintendo will release their console with a Super Nintendo Emulator, and allow internet downloads withour licensing fees (to them, You would still have to pay the author). This would:
Allow all of their old licensees to make a ton of money with little more than putting up a web server.
Allow for F/OSS software to be written for the system.
Limit the F/OSS software to the power of a SNES, thus ensuring that the regular licensees still want to pay for the right to sell the software they wrote.
Move all of those people who bought an X-Box just for the SNES games back to Nintendo.
If they are really smart, they would add NES, Genesis, Atari 2600 and Amiga Emulation while they are at it. None of these would cut into their core business of game licensing, but they would certainly get a lot of systems into living rooms. I would definitly buy one.
Nintendo gets out of the home console hardware market!!! that's one of the rumors I heard, twould be a revolution of sorts...
Free electronics!
If I remember correctly, gyroscopes spin. They might even be said to "revolve". So I think if the rumors are true, that's the "revolution" they're talking about and we're going to see controllers with gyroscopes.
Another piece of the rumor puzzle would fit too. The statement "Touching is good but feeling is better" makes me think of the tendency of gyroscopes to resist changes in direction off of the plane in which they spin. Any input from the controllee to the controller that wasn't in the same direction as the spin would be felt as feedback.
I might be thinking a little too simply though.
I know the accelerometer sampling rate is critical, but what would stop nintendo from making a small circuit to control them (or, more likely, buying a single package with everything in it) that ran at the top frequency for such a purpose? You're talking about satellites, I'm talking about a disposable video game system.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Position, mostly. Developers would be able to make cooler games if they knew that they could query the controller for the angle it is being held at.
The price of a gyro system is cheap enough (as witnessed by the Gyration) that it makes little sense to spend as much or more money on a MEMS system and the higher computing power (and battery consumption) that it would entail.
Or so I believe.
MEMS accelerometers do provide static acceleration, and thus can be used to sense angle if you have enough axes. You don't need more computing power, you just need a teensy bit of hardware close to the accelerometers doing high-frequency sampling and putting out a useful signal. I suppose the gyro could be cheaper, but I would think it would also consume more power.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Your statement might have some truth to it. Interestingly, at the time the Mac G4 Cube was released, rumours about the GameCube (then known as Project Dolphin) were circulating. It was known for quite a while the GameCube would use a PowerPC processor, that ATI were providing the 3D hardware, and Nintendo registered the trademark "StarCube" (changed later to GameCube), and was a multimedia powerhouse. Although it was probably just a happy coincidence, the Mac G4 Cube and the GameCube shared all these traits. As Nintendo had been working with Apple to make Mac-based dev kits for the Dolphin, many considered it to be confirmation that the rumours of the GameCube's specifications were true; a tip of the hat from Apple to Nintendo's future console. That might be what's happening here, although it might also be that we're looking too-far into it.