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Oregon's Governor Backs Open Source Development
Colonel Panic writes "Oregon's Governor Ted Kulongoski is backing a plan to establish an Open Technology Center in Beaverton (also home to the OSDL). The purpose of the center will be to boost the adoption of open technology among developers and industries. Given that the Portland area hosts OSCON and is the home to the OSDL and now Linus, is Portland becoming the center for Open Source development in the US?"
Is there a secret war going on between Oregon and Washinton? //Puts on tin foil hat
Government surporting open source?
Quick, I must check for hidden traps from the RIAA, etc.
Yes, Im on to you mr. Gov.
*adjusts tinfoil hat*
Roses are red
Violets are blue
In Soviet Russia
Poems write you!
Since I live in Portland, this could be good for future prospects in the employment-in-interesting-jobs arena.
The Spoon
Updated 6/28/2011
When Kulongoski isn't tirelessly defending free software, he tours Iraq to sample their ice cream.
A hero if ever there was one.
And if yes, should there be one?
...there's not much to do in Beaverton besides staying indoors and writing open source software.
Dedicated Linux servers (root access) $45 p.M.
Cambridge Mass. last time I checked. you gotta give it some weight. VA also has a lot of OSS projects within its borders.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
Maybe we no longer have to be indentured servants to The Man
.sig
a town named "Beaverton" would have a lot of houses of ill repute.
Too bad.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
I saw Linus eating at the McDonalds on the Beverton Hillsdale Highway. I think he was eating the number 3 meal (Royale With Cheese, Coke, Fries) and I am pretty sure it was super sized.
DHS is Oregon's largest branch of government (or second maybe), and they use very little open source. Here are their "standards".
Other state agencies probably have theirs posted as well...
as an added bonus--no sales tax for everything that isn't free!
Haha! Beaverton... he said Beaverton... *snort* hahahaha
Heh, heh. You said "beaver".
Is Portland becoming the center for Open Source development in the US?
As much as any other town with more than 1 famous Open Source developer. One swallow does not make a(n Open Source) summer (camp), even if that swallow flew in from Finland and even if it likes penguins for reasons you do not even want to know.
Way to go out on a limb there, Oregon. This should jumpstart your economy
Actually you are totally incorrect about it raining here. The weather in this area is usually very nice and during the spring and summer, going on small trips lets you go rafting, hiking, mountain biking, cycling, mountains to ski, festivals in Portland, coast is about an hour away, etc... This area is honestly an awesome place to live and work in.
After intense lobbying by a large redmond based software company, GW declares all out war on "Those Commies over thar' in Portland". Airstrikes to begin immediately on the nefarious, shadowy group known only as OSDL.
I think it's just inevitable that some politician at some point was going to wake up and get a clue... This is a huge industry that is screaming for a safe-haven somewhere. I really wish this Penguin Park could have gone somewhere that really needed it, like my rust-belt hometown of Youngstown, Ohio; but kudos to the Oregon governor for opening his eyes to the situation.
Beaver, Oregon
The best part is the "Beaver Locator".
This is the same Governor whose pet project is CNIC, a colsolidated Data Center, to save money and improve security.
:-)
In fact, securty is mentioned over and over in this project.
So, to improve security, the State or Oregon is putting all their servers in one building near the airport at the end of a runway in a floodplain!!
(Apparently, Mount St. Helens (Volcano) property was already taken or something..)
And, they already had a public goundbreaking, so everyone knows where it is!
Yep, the champion of OpenSource!!
(Don't worry tho, Accenture is helping us with the project!!
across the Charles to Boston http://www.fsf.org/fsf/fsf.html Really, this is silly! You would only have to have a world capitol of OSS if it were a business, or if it were run primarily by people with unhealthy needs for recognition, domination and money...that happens north of Portland or very near the Potomac. The coolest thing about the FSF website is the who's Gnus page...contributed software comes from all over the planet.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
it's miserable in Oregon.
Please stay away.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Oregon CNIC info.
Oh please, you are exagerating. It only averages 335 days of rain a year.
And I'm hoping this does something for home prices in the area- which have been in a slump since the .com bubble burst (average residential occupancy in Washington County is at 25%, which is great for renters but murder on homeowners trying to refinance or sell). That- and maybe it will do something about the county's 12% unemployment in the high tech sector.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
...is Portland becoming the center for Open Source development in the US?
Hmmm, that would be kind of fitting, actually. And just a short-day's drive from Redmond too.
I guess, however, it's not like the GOD (Good Old Days) where you could quit your job at Microsoft one day and start working for an Open Source employer the next. The job market is such now that it's much more picky. (Unless you are working in Java which tends to be OS color-blind)
BTM
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
Great for Beaverton!!! The town hasn't been the same since Tanya Harding moved to Wash.
__________ Leave me alone I'm compiling a RPG II program on my S/36...Thanks to metamucil I'm a Regular Meta Moderator
With an attitude like this you might as well give it up now.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
Excuse me? We are, for the most part, very clean-cut hippies.
Source: WeatherToday.net
Um you could go by Nike and watch the hoties run around the track which circles the campus.
__________ Leave me alone I'm compiling a RPG II program on my S/36...Thanks to metamucil I'm a Regular Meta Moderator
Well, St. Helens is a few dozen miles to the north, in Washington. We do have some lovely extinct volcanoes within city limits, though. We've also got Mt. Hood to the east. People die on that all the time. Plus, it's got that lodge from the Shining! That'll scare interlopers away!
All code and no play makes Jack a dull boy...
Beaverton is just another Boring Oregon City.
First of all, Randal Schwartz was arrested because he was cracking passwords. The fact that he was the system administrator is irrelevant to the discussion. He was told not to do it, and he did it anyway.
Yeah, Intel had a somewhat contradictory set of policies. On the one hand, he was charged with improving network security. On the other, he was told he couldn't do certain things. Where Randal went wrong was when he saw that the policies were contradictory and went ahead anyway. There is always another option which won't get you in trouble: stop what you're fucking doing, and get clarification from management. Being an arrogant ass, he didn't, and so he was arrested.
If your boss says: "Yes, sure, release that code as GPL", but your contract says: "All code is propery of The Company(TM)", then your legal position is unclear, which is very, very bad.
In such a situation, you get written clarification, or you quit your job. You do not break the law and then whine when you are sent to jail.
Then your cell-mate will say: "I like this one. He's cute!", and you will say "Why did I ever move to Oregon!!! !!!". Not good. Not good at all.
You're pulling this out of your ass. I work in the Portland area as a software developer and have never heard of anything like what you are inventing here, except for the case of Randal Schwartz, which was a pretty clear-cut case of misuse of computer resources. The guy knew the law, he broke it, he went to jail. Tough shit.
He could have simply gone to his employer and said "I cannot carry out my job function under this contradictory set of requirements. I need clarification."
If you've seen Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9/11", you'll have found out that Oregon's entire coastline is protected at most by about 8, that's eight, state troopers. Interesting how the "Open" Source movement is moving to Oregon. You can say Oregon puts the "O" in Open Source ;)
this is just saber-rattling to get volume MSFT discounts for state government IT.
Since the state government doesn't have enough funding to hire really good people, it's mostly just temp consultants from degree mills who get their knowledge and advice from PC World and the now defunct Windows magazine. For the longest time, (it might still be there), there's a pallet of at least 50 sets of retail-boxed Intel Pentium Pro Overdrive upgrade kits (still shrink-wrapped) sitting in one of our meeting rooms which were purchased by some tech lead (for $200 when they were retailing for $80) and when P2's were bottoming out in price. In the same year, someone decided to pay a Canadian consultant $5 million to write a simple Access frontend to a database. And that's not all - they had to fly his entire family down and feed, house, and clothe them for an entire month! Granted, at the time it was difficult to find good people because of the dot-com rush, but they could have easily found a pimply-faced high school intern to have done it for $10/hr.
The point is - there are not nearly enough qualified IT people in state government there to utilize open-source solutions.
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
You are part of the movement to get Major League Baseball to move to Portland aren't you?!?
Bah!
We killed a top figure skater's parent in the last month, stay away, you aren't safe!
Oregon is bad, stop it if you can.
... *slants tin foil hat down 23 degrees*
You are confused. Those are bums, not hippies.
Actually, only the exterior of the lodge was used in the movie. The scenes inside the lodge were filmed somewhere else.
Before you get all happy remember that once you take the money you will have obligations. If some politician wants you stop something and focus on something else, they can very easliy persuade you to do so. I don't know about you but I'm happy to have government out of open source, for open source's sake.
you know there are places in the US where the weather dosn't suck AND there are OS jobs... /move along, there is nothing to see here
grape - the GNU free, open source rape
about 8, that's eight, state troopers
That's true- because in Oregon parts of the beach are still the State Highway System. What MM doesn't tell you is that there are also 8 fully operational Coast Guard bases, 2 National Guard Bases, and the rest of the Oregon Coast that isn't covered is right on the edge of the continental plate and is protected by huge jagged rocks, pounding surf, and the ghost of Bandage Man.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Yes, instead of a nice big downpour its more of a continuous misting...
I might as well mention that I was up there a few months ago visiting relatives and kicking around the idea of moving up. Unfortunately it looks like the californiacation has already begun. I couldn't believe the new developments with the giant homes and near-zero lot lines.. ugh..
Still, its pretty nice if you can handle the weather. It just takes the right kind of person.
http://www.masturbateforpeace.com/
True, but hopefully the exterior will be enough to scare them off.
I think Schwartz said it best.
I became a felon for doing my job with a bit too much enthusiasm.
He used normal security techniques of auditing passwords, he never used the passwords in a dishonest way, and he was authorized to work with the systems. The passwords never left Intel's computers, he didnt actually "HACK" or steal access.
He should of been fired if Intel had an issue, but Oregons law basically make things like using someones xbox without written permission a felony.
Just because a company doesnt like the way you go about doing your jobs shouldnt make you a criminal.
You can read more about it here. Lightlink
Oregon is angling for some _really big_ discounts from Microsoft.
According to census information, Portland is 78% white. While that is obviously mostly white, there aren't many cities in this country of Portland's size outside of the southwest or southern Florida that are LESS white.
Portland doesnt have that many hippies actually, if you exclude the Hawthorne district. You wanna talk about hippies, then you want to have a looksie at Eugene. Now that is full of dirty hippies. I grew up there and I fucking hate that place.
Joseph?
Portland is also home to Free Geek, a model for what computer reclamation / redistribution centers can accomplish.
-- thinkyhead software and media
Personal Telco Project
Yes, Gov. Kulongoski has attended the funeral of every fallen Oregonian soldier, sailor, and airman during his term.
Unlike our Commander in Chief, he believes very strongly that they deserve at least this respect.
Then again, unlike our Commander in Chief, he's a real veteran (Marine, 11th & 12th Regs), who actually served, instead just playing dress-up.
m.m.
Umm, I've only been here a few months, but aren't we supposed to tell everyone it sucks and to stay away? Have I been lying to my parents for no reason?
In other news, Washington State is is declaring war on Oregon. News sources are dubbing this, "The American Civil War II". Many news analyst claim that this war should be open and shut in no time. An anonomys insider from Redmond, WA says this, "The red scare is back. This time it's in our own back yard! We must do everything in our power to defeat the Commies and bring Democracy back to the U.S. In our efforts to do this, we are offering to the U.S. Military our latest software package "Red Out". This is available to them for just $99 per month. For the Pro Version (which has a cooler sounding name... and it integrates with Miami Vice) it's just $199."
Anyone who can win a major political office with a name like "Kulongoski" has my support. ;)
it rains 363 days of the year there That's just a lie we tell to Californians to get them to stay the heck out of Oregon. Can't stand to see Oregon getting all Californicated...
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
Sounds like pure hyperbole to me. Seems like OS development is inherently pretty decentralized.
I live in Wilsonville (close to Portland). I've lived in many other areas in the country. Actually, the weather here is generally really nice in the summer. Between May and October, it is not too hot (usually) or too cold, not raining (usually), and not humid.
The winters are rainy, but compared to other places I've lived its a lot nicer. I've lived in Oklahoma (central), Missouri (Springfield and St. Louis), and Houston, TX.
Houston has a lot of rain in the winter, too. But in the summer, it is far too hot to enjoy the weather outside.
In Oklahoma it is always either far too cold or far too hot to enjoy the outdoors. Same for Missouri.
I love the weather in the northwest. It may only be good weather for half the year, but for that half its great.
Avoid Missing Ball for High Score
We'll see how you feel when your neighbor turns his property into a feedlot and the other neighbor decides to become a auto junkyard.
OTOH, my neighbors will have to put up w/a new runway. I'm turning my back 40 into an airport.
Trolls to eat too...
All the derogatory comments in this blog regarding Oregon are true! We are just strange people that love living in these horrible living conditions (like lots of rain and that sort of thing)! You wouldn't like it here, so don't even think of coming here (unless you want to vacation here for a week or so).
Heard any good sigs lately?
Did I miss something? What does the color of the houses have to do with development of OSS? Furthermore, with all the trees, it's mostly green around here. We're also known as being blue on the political map, though closer examination shows that to be in the metro area, with Eastern Oregon being mostly red. Still, I don't see your point.
The Spoon
Updated 6/28/2011
The song's called Kumbaya, jackass, and it either came from Angola or... the southern east coast of the US, nobody's certain. I bet there are *tons* of hippies there.
"Yes, sure, release that code as GPL", but your contract says: "All code is propery of The Company(TM)"
GPL software is NOT public domain. The code is Copyright (C) The Company, but instead of a typical restrictive license, its distributed under the GPL.
Absolutely. Waiting for the bus in the rain keeps us well rinsed.
well there are more strip clubs per capita than anywhere else in the country, (portland that is) and beaverton is, of course, a major component in the portland metro area, frequently called PDX, which for a while i thought stood for Perverted Decentralization Crossing... but that could just be my mind trying to rationalize the 'logic' of airports.
As I've already moderated, I must post as AC....
A Texan, a Californian, and an Oregonian are out riding horses. The Texan pulls out an expensive bottle of whiskey, takes a long swig, then another, and suddenly throws it into the air, pulls out his gun and shoots the bottle in midair. The Californian looks at him and says, "What are you doing? That was a perfectly good bottle of whiskey!" The Texan says, "In Texas, there's plenty of whiskey and bottles are cheap." A while later, not wanting to be outdone, the Californian pulls out a bottle of champagne, takes a few sips, throws the champagne into the air, pulls out his gun and shoots it in midair. The Oregonian can't believe this and says, "What the heck did you do that for??? That was an expensive bottle of champagne!" The Californian says "In California, there's plenty of champagne and bottles are cheap." So a while later, the Oregonian pulls out a bottle of Widmer Hefeweizen. He opens it, takes a sip, takes another sip, then chugs the rest. He then puts the bottle back in his saddlebag, pulls out his gun, turns around and shoots the Californian. The Texan, shocked, says, "Why the hell did you do that?!" The Oregonian replied, "In Oregon we have plenty of Californians, and bottles are worth a nickel."
I'm far more afraid of what Microsoft is going to do about this. I mean, wouldn't it be convenient to have a Windows powered missile accidentally mis-fire and land in Beaverton? All I know is that we need more bomb shelters before the OS holy wars become literal.;-)
You're joking, right? In San Francisco county (which is neither Southwest nor in southern Florida) "whites" aren't even a majority. There is no ethnic majority in San Francisco, just minorities of differing numbers. "Whites" make up 49.7% of the population in San Francisco. If you take the Hispanic "whites" out of it, then "whites" are only 43.6% of the population.
Another example, Dallas County (I don't consider Dallas "southwest" having grown up there) is only 58% "white" according to the 2000 census. I can't find the data just for the city of Dallas, but I'll guarantee you that the city has a higher percentage of ethnic minorities than the county as a whole.
New Orleans is only 28% white.
I love Portland, but it's considerably whiter than most of the southern half of this country when compared to other metropolitan areas.
"No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
It's not the trees that are green, it's the MOLD.
I have just the perfect project that could make
the new Open Source Center literaly the center of
the open source universe.
I'm talking about a real, good, solid replacement
for Microsoft Exchange. Take a combination of the
projects that we already have (openexchange,
opengroupware, etc) and use the best components
of each one and come up with something that is
truly open source, industrial strength, and with
as many 'enterprise' features as Exchange.
We already have the backend components this can
use; postgresql (or mysql) for the back end database; kerberos or ldap for the authentication (which can be nicely integrated with the likes of postfix and cyrus or courier imap engines, and so on.
If the new center in Beaverton can pull something
like this off, it would be on the map for
creating a first alternative to the one thing that
has prevented many businesses from migrating
off of Microsoft.
Luv
Mrs. Cleara Plastique
Cleara
Yes, buy can Linus say Oregon properly yet?
(He's very adaptive, so I would vote yes)
Hint-- It is NOT pronounced OR-E-GONE
uh.. yer not supposed to tell people that the weather is actually good here.... It's taken generations of FUD to convince the rest of the world that the weather here sucks. Hand over your renounce your Citizenship at once!
.
Cool, I'm glad I voted for the guy. oregon politicians are doing good so far this year. With prozanski trying to bust up the city cops speed traps across the state and send the money to drivers ed programs.
Don't forget that Keith Packard lives in Portland also. So you have the core of Linux development and the core of X development.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
It only rained 360 last year. I counted. (It snowed the other 5.) And you can go waterskiing in downtown Salem sometimes, that's always fun.
I have this really funny quote that I like to put here. Unfortunately, there's this really annoying thing called a char
If you hate stumptown that much, GTFO
Here...here are all the cans from my house. Now you can afford a u-haul to go somewhere you don't hate. I live in Lents, so come on down for 'em.
Geeze, you'd think we ate his dog or something....
"It may just be that there is something fundamentally unworkable about government itself" -H. Beam Piper
Normally, I don't bother with people too cowardly to register, but Austin is about Portland's size and is only 65% white. Oklahoma City is almost exactly Portland's size and is also about 65% white. Atlanta has a populuation of 416,000 and is only 33% white. Need I continue? Portland is pretty damned white compared to much of America.
"No, no, no. Don't tug on that. You never know what it might be attached to."
Sheesh, you both have it wrong. It was a billboard just north of the California border that said "Oregon: A Nice Place to Visit", with the emphasis on "visit". We used to live there back in 1981. Worked at HP's Calculator Division in Corvallis. Worked on the HP-41 CMOS power supply chip. "Oh, I heard that the HP-41 only ever had a bipolar power supply chip." You'd be right, sigh. Never did get the damned thing working, but at least we scared Harris into improving its incoming yield rate.
-russ
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Actually, McDonald's have been running Open Source Software since around 1989. They use the GPL'ed packet driver collection to communicate between the registers and the back of house system. There was a time when I had open source software running on more CPUs than any other person.
-russ
p.s. hehe.
Don't piss off The Angry Economist
Tonya Harding
Senator Bob Packwood
Monica Lewinsky (she went to Lewis and Clark College in Oregon)
There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
I'll give you OKC and Austin, but Atlanta is the principal city in the ninth largest metro area in the US...not exactly in the same class as the other cities listed. However, after looking at a population listing of other cities, your point is proven. Most of the cities in the same range (Kansas City, Sacramento, Cincinnati, San Antonio etc) are less white (not necessarily less Caucasian, as most demographics count Hispanic in Caucasian) than Portland. I'll admit when I'm wrong...
Population information from: http://www.citypopulation.de/USA-CombMetro.html
Actually, there are other approaches. For instance, the cake maker can be paid a fixed wage plus expenses to provide new model cakes from time to time. This is, approximately, the model for academic research. Or someone (government, consumer organization) can contract with cake makers to produce new models. Yet another approach is to hold competitions with cake-makers earning their income via prizes. This is the model on which rodeo cowboys earn their living. I'm not saying that all or any of these approaches will be good in all cases, but it isn't true that the only possibility is paying the producer on a piecework basis.
Yes, it was a frightening miscarriage of justice and common sense. Washington County simply did the bidding of Intel (its largest employer). The irony of Washington County now becoming a center for free software is not appreciated widely enough.
So... You are jealous of Portland?
Oh well, what the hell...
Portland to Seattle/Redmond is only about 145 miles.
Keep your friends close, your enemies closer?
Check out the budgets. Look at their spending and objectives. If an objective states, "Identify possibilities for increased efficiences in information technlogy," there you go.
If all their documents are in Microsoft formats, draw their attention to Commonwealth of Massachusetts open standards policy and how open formats are helpful.
If you can find they are violating a their own policies regarding document storage or accessibility, mention that.
This joke has much truth. It is funny AND insightful.
Oh, I figured that as a resident of Beaverton, it would be ok for me to ask the governor to float me some of that 1.2 mil to help relocate the entire Debian development team to Oregon. Hmm, maybe not.
I VOTED FOR HIM! ~n (Portland native)
Never mind that big fancy OSDL out in Beaverton.... this is the heart of Portland linux.
http://www.freegeek.org/
OK, one of the hearts. But at least Free Geek is located in the real Portland, inner southeast, as opposed to out in sterile, wealthy, Geography of Nowhere, Silicon Forest, stripmall land....aka Beaverton.
Still it's neat to have Linus himself living here in our little old forest.
Seriously, man. Burgerville rules! Too bad that they don't exist south of stenchburg, er Albany.... we don't have them down here in Eugene!
The tightly-build new subdivisions is mostly because there is less land inside the Urban Growth Boundry. It's a trade-off, tightly-build houses in exchange for them not streaching off for EVER.
"Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys" P. J. O'Rourke
Yeah, Intel had a somewhat contradictory set of policies. On the one hand, he was charged with improving network security. On the other, he was told he couldn't do certain things. Where Randal went wrong was when he saw that the policies were contradictory and went ahead anyway. There is always another option which won't get you in trouble: stop what you're fucking doing, and get clarification from management. Being an arrogant ass, he didn't, and so he was arrested.
Being an arrogant ass shouldn't be illegal. What you're saying is, "Yes, parent poster, the law was wrong to put him in jail, therefore it was his fault for not recognizing that potentiality, and violating the stupid law."
The point isn't whether the law, as it stood (which was NOT clear until after the trial), made what he did a crime, it's whether that's a good and intelligent law. It isn't.
In such a situation, you get written clarification, or you quit your job. You do not break the law and then whine when you are sent to jail.
Way to miss the whole point. The point is that the system is unmoral/disagreeable/anti-the-little-guy/whatever related adjective you prefer. Your reply blames the victim and does nothing to address the problem. It's like saying (during the witch trial eras), "Well, that's what you get for having a birthmark and a pet black cat!"
What Randal did shouldn't have landed him in jail, but it did. He probably shouldn't have done it even if it was completely legal, but that doesn't mean he should be imprisoned for it!
Hmmm Windows-powered missiles, eh? How would the licencing work on those? I guess on a per-casualty basis?
I think, therefore I am. I think?
Dont worry, if they aim for Beaverton, they should overshoot and end up in San Jose
I did. He's tied to my belt and forced to play music all day. When I'm at home I put him in a machine which restricts his movement and passes electric current through him. And make him play more music. I have no intention of paying him.
Isn't anthropomorphism fun?
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Now it's 6 months later, they've scrapped the whole project because...
I think Slashdot ought to do a whole story on people's experiences with Project Zombie, ill-conceived, the living undead, Death March, etc.
Management always trumpets success and ignores failure - but how better to learn how to avoid failure than to have examples of it dissected in front of you?
"Provided by the management for your protection."
That's somewhat true, but the issue wasn't support for the war, but supporting and honoring the troops that are fighting and dying in it.
President Bush has used the military for photo ops, while at the same time cutting their combat pay and benefits. He has yet to attend even a single memorial service for the Americans who gave their lives to fight in his precious little war.
Governor Kulongoski, who knows what it's like to actually serve has consistently fought to protect and promote the interests of the troops. The Governor has also acknowledged and honored each Oregonian who gave his life in this war.
r.m.
Heavily liberal, perhaps, but that hardly equates with "peace loving."
And the wording of my post really has little to no correlation with how angry I am (which is to say, "not at all angry").
Why shouldn't it have? It's a law like any other law. You break it, you suffer the consequences.
Whether or not the law is right is a different issue. Breaking the law might be a legitimate act of civil disobedience. I highly doubt that was what was going through his mind when he did it, however. And I think there are laws much more worthy of protest than this one.
I mean, come on -- do you really think it's that unreasonable to prosecute somebody who willfully misused corporate resources? What if instead of cracking passwords he was wasting reams of paper making photocopies of his ass? Would you still think him all noble for going against the establishment?
>What Randal did shouldn't have landed him in jail, but it did.
Why shouldn't it have? It's a law like any other law. You break it, you suffer the consequences.
Because the consequences for what he did should not be jail, duh.
Whether or not the law is right is a different issue.
No, it's not a different issue, it's the WHOLE issue.
You ignorant sod, you are saying that a person should be deprived of their freedom for cracking passwords, not in any malicious way, and dutifully reporting the weakness to his employer. It should not be against the law, it should be up to Intel whether or not to fire and/or sue him for damages, but it's absolutely disgusting to hear someone advocating sending someone to jail for that.
I mean, come on -- do you really think it's that unreasonable to prosecute somebody who willfully misused corporate resources?
"Misuse corporate resources" is a vague term. Should you go to jail if you use the photocopier to copy your tax returns before running to the post office? No. Should you go to jail for using corporate resources to steal from your shareholders? Yes.
What if instead of cracking passwords he was wasting reams of paper making photocopies of his ass? Would you still think him all noble for going against the establishment?
You are a moron. I never said he was "noble for going against the establishment", nor did he "photocopy his ass" (what an absolutely ridiculous analogy--do you think photocopying your ass should land you in jail?). What I said was that it shouldn't have landed him in jail. What you have is Intel depriving a man of his liberty for showing them a flaw in their system. He didn't steal corporate resources, he didn't vandalize the files he had access too. He did scare Intel's corporate leaders. Boo!
You're fucking sick. I'll bet, just like Rush Limbaugh who rails for people who abuse drugs to go to jail, except for him, if you found your employer's corporate file share with the legal docs and employee records was prone to be accessed via WiFi and l0phtcrack from the Starbucks in the lobby, you'd decry the notion that what you did should land you in jail.
I mean this is no small way: Go fuck yourself. That goes double if you live under the jurisdiction of a law which makes said self-fucking illegal. Putting someone in jail is the second-worse thing our government can do to a person (well, maybe third, now that Gonzales is championing torture--in much the same, "I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just that it can be done," way that you are saying Randal Schwartz should have been sent to jail).
President Bush has used the military for photo ops, while at the same time cutting their combat pay and benefits.
"_Cutting_ combat pay and benefits" for servicemen, and that in wartime? Put up evidence of this please.
He has yet to attend even a single memorial service for the Americans who gave their lives to fight in his precious little war.
Bush spent time with families of soldiers killed. It's not about _appearances_ - it doing the right thing.
The Oregon Governor may be a swell guy, but that doesn't make Bush-bashing right.
I agree. As I said though, it ain't fucking relevant. You can't choose to enforce some laws and not others based on whether they are "right" or not. Law is not about what is right or wrong.
You ignorant sod, you are saying that a person should be deprived of their freedom for cracking passwords, not in any malicious way, and dutifully reporting the weakness to his employer.
No, I am NOT saying that. I am saying that a person who breaks a law should be punished as the law requires. If the law is unjust, the law should be changed. What is NOT right is for us to stop enforcing laws because we don't like them.
I mean this is no small way: Go fuck yourself.
Get over your silly indignation. You and I both think the law is stupid. The difference is, I am capable of distinguishing between legality and morality. You are not.
Are you still here? Didn't I tell you to go fuck yourself?
I agree. As I said though, it ain't fucking relevant. You can't choose to enforce some laws and not others based on whether they are "right" or not. Law is not about what is right or wrong.
Yes you can (well, you can't, but the police, judges, prosecutors, etc, can), it happens all the time. The question *is* relevant because the whole point in discussing Schwartz's incarceration is to point out how stupid the law is. That's the first step in changing the law. Your attitude is, "well, the law's the law." That's revolting.
No, I am NOT saying that. I am saying that a person who breaks a law should be punished as the law requires. If the law is unjust, the law should be changed. What is NOT right is for us to stop enforcing laws because we don't like them.
I disagree fully, a person should (should is a moral term, more on this below) not be punished under an unjust law. For you, it's more important to sacrifice people to ensure the consistency of the system. For me, the system serves the people, so the system must bend to ensure the just liberty of the people.
Get over your silly indignation.
My indignation is not silly. It's disgusting to argue that a person should be imprisoned for a stupid law. It's sick. And it's made moreso by the fact that every time an asshole with your attitude towards the law falls victim to such a law, they scream bloody murder about how wrong it is for them to be arrested/investigated/imprisoned/etc.
You and I both think the law is stupid. The difference is, I am capable of distinguishing between legality and morality. You are not.
No, the difference is you are a sociopath who thinks it's moral to punish someone under an unjust law. To separate the morality and legality of the system is merely to say that his imprisonment was completely legal, but the imprisonment was immoral. NO ONE has suggested the law was not executed exactly as it was written. What's at issue (which you keep dismissing by claiming it's not the issue) is whether it was moral, whether it was the sort of law that serves the people, like the US Government (and State and local governments under the Federal hierarchy) mandates. When you say such a law should be enforced, you are making a moral decision. Should is an opinion, and is predicated on your values (morality). You are saying it's more moral to uphold the law than it is immoral to unjustly imprison someone. You are a sick, pathetic man.
A man was deprived of his freedom for being a geek and a white hat hacker. It's sick and anyone who defends such a system needs to be personally run through that system in order to cure their sociopathy.
Now, go fuck yourself, and be sure to turn yourself in and demand to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, if there's any law against self-fucking in your jurisdiction.
So, you're an anarchist. That's fine, but I'm not going to continue to argue with an anarchist.
So, you're an anarchist. That's fine, but I'm not going to continue to argue with an anarchist.
I am not an anarchist. What gives you that idea?
You're a dumb-fuck who has to see things in absolutes. Either I'm absolutely for the rule of law, or I'm absolutely an anarchist (an extension of your earlier, "you either enforce all laws equally, or there are no laws"--are you really retarded enough to not see that's false?). Your pea-brain can't comprehend a system which is not 100% self-consistent. Laws are important, laws are integral to a working society. Sound like an anarchist? No? Just wait until you hear this: laws are not ends unto themselves. They are tools to an end. Unjust laws should not be enforced. Oops, all of the sudden I'm an anarchist, but only to a rigid fool such as yourself.