Slashdot Mirror
Steam Users Steamed
KrunchTime writes "The Steam network seems to be having some problems tonight. This is not good new for fans of counter-strike, day of defeat and other half-life mods. Some people seem to be able to log on fine while others, like me :(, cannot connect at all. The steam forums were filling up with invective when I was last able to get on. The forums now seem to have imploded under the strain of complaints. The question that was being asked most is why there isn't more redundancy on the log-in side of steam. They say that if one of the master servers goes down that the accounts held there become unavailable immediately. The other big problem is that while the Steam network is down even the offline games are unplayable. There was no sign of responses from Valve staff or forum moderators."
And on a Saturday night, no less! Mothers, lock up your daughters! Smithers in on the town!
01000110 01010000
I always thought that steam power was the worst type of combustion....
I can't even play HL2 offline a game i payed for a reatil box for. I smell LAWSUIT!
It's good to know that companies protect customers from playing their games so well ...
Someone hates these cans.
Here is a good idea: Make the single player part of our game only usable if you can connect to the central servers.
Man, such a great game, made by a bunch of idiots
To Hell with the Queen of England!
At least all the smoking server comments will finally be on topic.
I have a copy of HL2. I got it when I bought my Athlon 64, but I "paid" for it nonetheless. But, as we all been reminded, I don't "own" anything. I didn't even get a DVD. I have the license to play HL2 at the whimsey of Valve. If Valve feels like letting me play, I can play. If Valve feels like taking the weekend off when their servers go down, I can't play.
If I hadn't gotten it for free with my CPU, I wouldn't have "bought" it at all; their license is simply idiotic.
Mind you, I respect their rights to have such an idiotic license...
/.-ing the forum will greatly help the cause... :P
That's different. This a direct result of copy protection bullshit. You can't even play single player mode without authenticating against their central server
Anyone who plays MMORPGs knows what they're getting into before they buy the game.
One doesn't go buy a boxed copy of a single player game expecting to find themselves unable to play it because some dodgy auth server down.
The other big problem is that while the Steam network is down even the offline games are unplayable.
I hope this shows more people why they need to resist DRM schemes.
Absolutely. This is the most insane thing about Steam: When I can't reach Steam - either because it's down, or because I happen to be in a location with no network access (which, in fact, is a common scenario) - I can't play the offline games I purchased. Like Half-Life 2. And Counter-Strike: Condition Zero. Even Codename Gordon - a dinky freeware platformer, reminiscent of id software's classic game Abuse - is unplayable.
So I paid $80 for package including many excellent single-player games, but I can't play any of them without getting express consent from Valve every time. When that consent is unavailable, I can't play the games I bought. This is bogus. This is outrageous.
I cannot imagine how this possibly benefits Valve in any way. Surely the p1r@t3s who don't wanna pay (na na why don't you get a job?) are merrily playing their hacked-installer versions. All this mechanism accomplishes is giving the pointy-headed marketroids at Valve some academic (useless) data on who plays which games. Meanwhile, actual customers get surveilled, and sometimes denied access to their paid-for games.
In sum, this scheme presents spurious value to Valve, and no value to customers, while also pissing customers off. Valve is too smart a company not to realize this. Why they persist is a fucking mystery.
- David Stein
Computer over. Virus = very yes.
"I always thought that steam power was the worst type of combustion...."
It's great for pressing wrinkles out of clothes though.
I bought the game and installed it. Yep, works great. Yet I hated that it took what seemed forever to connect to Steam just to play Half Life 2.
.exe of HL2 that will let you play without ever connecting to Steam.
Enter the offline patch. A hacked
Sorry, but if I purchase a game for my personal machine and the game that I choose to play has no need for the Internet then that is the way it should be.
This is only half-true.
Once Half-Life 2 is decrypted and fully running, it is possible to set it to be playable offline, hence not needing an internet connection to run it, and the original single player games can be played from their original applications, not through steam.
Anyone who has played an MMORPG is more than familiar with these
Yes, thats because mmorpg stans for Massave Multi ONLINE role playing game.
last I herd, playing half life 2 a SINGLE PLAYER GAME sholdn't have the added problem of not being able to play the non online game because they can't maintain their servers.
Isn't it great fun having a DRM system built into a game? Any of you remember the good old days when you could just play a game when you wanted to?
Uhh what's wrong with that? Lots of network transfer speeds are measured using Kb/s (modems, etc) - it's a common unit of measure and just as good as KB/s - so as long as it says so, who's fooling anyone?
The last thing steam servers needed right now was being slashdotted !!
Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes.
It figures I'd get flamebait/troll moderation for showing a dissenting opinion... No, I'm not new here, just willing to step out of line and speak up.
I really think the steam DRM scheme gives users an easier time than non-DRM games. The idea of taking all of my games to any computer with only a username (and a hideous download time) seems much more convienient than discs and keys. The only problem is that users must authenticate so often causing too many problems when servers go down as they do. A 'logon once a week' scheme would probably ease these troubles, but otherwise I don't see how any of my rights are being squished.
-- Checking emails and kicking cheats `till the day I die.
What the hell. Put Steam into Offline mode. You can play Half-Life 2 in single player mode then.
I've played HL2 many times without a working internet connection.
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A 'logon once a week' scheme would probably ease these troubles, but otherwise I don't see how any of my rights are being squished.
Simple, if Valve goes out of business tomorrow and the login servers go down, all your games you paid for stop working permanently. With discs and CD Keys, you can hunt them down and reinstall, even if the company's gone out of business and your CDs are in storage.I think you're confusing "fundamental" with "universal". Steam has a fundamental problem: Requiring, at least one time, authentication over the internet to play the game (in single-player only). It lacks a universal problem: Some people have no problems, while others have nearly constant problems. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. But it is a SAD day when a company implements a protection scheme that punishes paying customers, and rewards hackers. Hacking things is fun for some; Valve is providing a thrill. And after one 1337 h4xx0r figures it out, no one else need do any work to get a free, unimpeded game!
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
The fact that it's a game versus some mission critical software doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is you paid for a product that you can fairly expect to work when you need/want it to. If they can't keep their servers up and running, then they need to refund some fraction of the original price to make up for their failure.
--
RumorsDaily
What I don't get is this:
Why do they have to do EVERYTHING in one place? I mean, I can certainly imagine, Steam goes down, some features of the network become unavailable. But why does the AUTHENTICATION server need to ever go down, at all? You'd think that would be the least difficult thing Steam does, and the thing most easily separable into its own always-available server.
But no, it appears when steam goes down, "Steam" goes down, all of it. You'd think that even if they couldn't fix their scaling problems, they'd be able to fix the availability of the authentication service.
Meanwhile, why does it have to authenticate EVERY time you try to play singleplayer? There's the cheating aspect when you're doing mutliplayer, I get that, but for singleplayer it isn't like you're going to change from a nonpirated to a pirated copy in between plays. Why not just make it automatically switch to offline mode, thus obviating the authentication checks, when you're playing offline? Maybe loosening the online-mode authentication restrictions would make the game easier to pirate-- but, hey, the game's ALREADY BEING PIRATED DESPITE THE EXISTENCE OF STEAM, so that's not such a big deal.
There's some interesting things to be said for the digital distribution concept but you'd think Valve would have realized by now that Steam is the showcase app for digital distribution. If they don't convince us they can successfully sell Half Life 2 online I don't expect many people will buy Half Life 3 online.
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
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though every game that requires a cd check (every game iv played for quite some time) with a central server to play online (the only reason to even buy games) would suffer from the exact same problem should the company crumble along with said central server.
That's essentially what the problem is with Steam and those affected by this now. We're talking about offline play though, while you may think online play is the only reason to buy games, there's a lot of people who prefer to never play online at all. Those games (the offline portion, or offline only games) certainly should not be affected by a company going out of business or an authentication server going down later on.Just one example, the Madden games on PS2 have online play but that play is only good for (at most) a year. After that you're stuck with an offline only copy, but it still plays just fine offline as it should.
Don't spin crap.
"Then if you have to buy a new PC to handle the bloatware, you have to pay $10 to transfer your CD key"
This isn't even REMOTELY true. all you need to do is remember your steam username and password, and reinstall the steam client. There is nothing. NOTHING! about a new pc that will force you to pay to release the cd key from the account.
Whoever told you this is wrong, and clearly needs to reread the part about needing $10 to transfer cd keys to another account (which is what it sounds like you should be referring to, and is a perfectly good idea to protect people from assholes)
I've made plenty of LAN servers, simply press the "Create Server" button in the main menu of any game on Steam.
If the Steam Auth servers are down, or you're not connected to a LAN with internet access you can't log in to steam to create a LAN server.
When WON's auth servers went down, it didn't make any difference for LAN servers.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I'm at a lan party right now (400 people / www.lanpartynw.com). I was banging my head for the last 5 hours as to why I cant play counterstrike. I must have done a million firewall, system tweaks since I figured it HAD to be my computer since some people next to me have no problem logging in while I saw one person who has the same problem. The lan party is supposed to be steam enabled so they have a link up to the auth servers.
And now I see the slashdot article. (Browsing the net using my cell phone as a modem trying to find a solution to this steam problem).
Really, I'm pissed. Not only do they force this crap down our throat, but they cant keep it working right. I'm fine with authenticating for internet play, but making people authenticate for offline play is a plain old stupid idea.
Check gamefix.com and theres cracks for all portions of Steam anyways, so people ARE pirating half-life 2 & all mods.
So good job Valve. You've succeeded at pissing off your customers and failed at stopping people who are stealing your games.
They definately arent getting my money again. Ever. I'll be one of the smart consumers who pirate their games from now on.
Steam is heavily bugged, easily overcome, and irritating.
Heavily bugged: That's a bit of an overstatement. The friends list doesn't work, but that's pretty much the only bug I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure someone will point me to some 3 page buglist somewhere, but I haven't noticed anything but the friend's list, so the other "bugs" seem pretty irrelevant to me.
Easily overcome: What does this even mean? Steam is easy to hack? It's much harder than any previous system (WON, for instance)... I really don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Irritating: This may be true, but you can always just stick it in offline mode and forget about it.
As for why Valve continues to use it. Just look at the content updates of the last week or two for that answer. Official maps released, bugs fixed, SDK updated, community informed (through the new weekly updates), and users tracked. These are all things that Valve wants to do, and Steam does those things quite well.
I have no idea how you're post was modded +4 insightful (especially with your second to last sentence being anything but on topic).
Steam isn't perfect for all users, but it serves its purpose. If you don't like it go into offline mode and never come back, otherwise boycott Valve games...
Let's see, in order to publish a video game today you need DRM - shut up. I can hear you bitching already "But what about X, Y, and Z! They don't use DRM!" Shut the fuck up. We're not talking about Joe's Self-Published Title, we're talking about something being sold through a major distributor. DRM is a must - so what options are there?
;)
Lock to the physical CD? Easily cracked by many different groups out there. Major hassle to the game player, has the most potential for incompatibility issues.
Serial key lock without serverside verification, or one-time verification? Again, not easily cracked, and will either have the same problem Steam will long down the road (no server to unlock) or will probably be backed up by a physical disc lock.
License terms on all these options? One machine, occasionally one machine + laptop (though that's rare for games)
And then there's Steam. Yes, Steam has flaws ranging from major to minor so let's look at those:
Major flaws:
Must authenticate to server or declare offline after authentication. Reliability of the server system is questionable. Will it be up tonight, next week, next year, a year after Steam 2 comes out? Twenty years down the road for retro-gaming?
Minor flaws:
Still can be cracked with some effort. Requires you to wait a few moments to launch the Steam.exe and load that before the game loads. However, in some cases this actually takes LESS time than some games that force you to watch six screens of technology trademark videos first.
Now what does Steam give you after all this hassle? The ability to keep your game up to date without worrying about it. The ability to log onto and play your game from any computer with Steam installed. Any computer, just one at a time. This is great for people with multiple computers, or the ability to game after-hours at work or school. You no longer need to worry about the old hassle of installing your game at your college terminal and removing your CD-key before leaving so people don't sniff it out of the registry.
(Okay, the last probably just describes my school)
Honestly, until Valve fucks it up seriously, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt. They put enough time, energy and improvement into the first game that they earned a shot at changing the status quo. Publishers would NEVER let them distribute without some form of DRM, and I'd much rather have Steam and the benefits it does bring than anything like SecuROM and its ilk.
A DRM-less world would be fucking incredible, yes. But guess what? Even if every person on Slashdot never bought another DRM-enabled program again, DRM will still be here. Idealism is fine, and breaking the rules is just fine too - but when people lash out like I see here it's just annoying. If you don't like it, fine. But acting like spoiled kids and calling the people at Valve all sorts of names is just pathetic.
I don't see people bitching about the DRM built into the latest MMORPG, but they still shell forty or fifty bucks up front, then twelve bucks a month to keep on playing, but everyone complains about Steam as if they're stealing your soul. Many MMORPG's haven't given you the extra content Valve pulled into Half-Life since 1998. Team Fotress Classic, HL Deathmatch, acquiring DOD and Counter-Strike, that weird Ricochet thing, patch after patch after patch. Yet when HL2 comes out with something new, everyone goes off the deep end like they cloned Hitler.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Lets say 10 years down the road I decide to try that old HL2 game again, it was fun :)
Now lets say valve doesn't really care about HL2 anymore, or perhaps valve is out of business
Well HL2 is a single player game, steam doesn't matter right? Not quite, I still have to validate my game files, if the servers are no longer configured for it, or are possibly non-existant, how exactly do they expect me to play my HL2 that I bought?
*.sig
To be fair:
0.) Valve (or anyone else) should not be allowed to sell you something and then claim that you don't actually have any rights to use it. In other words, this copy protection bullshit should be illegal!
The fact that the cracked versions working perfectly fine encourages copyright infringement is just poetic justice.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
Well, in fact, it does not _all_ go down. You can leave the Steam tray app running and it will remain 'logged in' for an underterminate amount of time (at-least several days I believe).
I have been exiting and closing Steam completely when I finish for the night. Requiring me to re-authenticate each day when I want to play CS:S or HL2 again. This obviously has bit me in the butt.
Regardless, authentication is so lightweight and featureless that as a software engineer I find the fact the service isn't working unimaginable. I know we've all (those who've played MMOG) have experiecned this in the past, but come on. Surely by now the fault tolerent designs of corporate banking/trading software has finally seeped into game server authentication. Multiple masters, distributed, clustered, geographically dispersed, big-ip'd or hell even round-robin with 1s TTLs. Anything to provide some redundancy.
This smells more like a data glitch then a software/hardware glitch. I heard they were going to be doing some account maint to disable some accounts that were being sold on e-bay and passed around pirate IRC channels.
I'd bet heavily that this is the result of a very poorly formulated UPDATE sql statement. And piss-poor backup/recovery strategy.
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
SP LiveWire - Phoenix, AZ, USA.
Responding to 10,000 gamers complaining of non-access to game servers, the Maricopa County Sheriff Department investigated a break-in at the Valve DataCentre near Phoenix, AZ. The grisly finding by the deputies prompted them to call in the FBI Anti-terrorist Strike Force.
FBI ATSF raided the remaining part of SteamPowered computer control room and its server room. All the big fat system administrators were found passed out and lying about with excessive amount of twinkie wrappers strewed about.
FBI ASF spokesman, J. Edgar Hoover, III, reported that 5 kiddie terrorists, claded in black bulletproof body armor, were videotaped as storming the Valve lobby. FBI Counter-Strike Computer Task Force (CSCT) sergeant reported that the DRM were disabled so that only hacked CS can play.
It is not known how the SAs were force-fed the trademarked sugar snack or how they passed out in a "Half-Life" state without incurring any mortal injuries.
No groups has step forward to claim responsibility.
-Malakai
A Dragon Lives in my Garage
In this case you paid for the service, and you expect the service to be provided when you need it, not when the company feels to it. When businesses buy services the contracts clearly say what happens when the service provider fails to provide. For example, many small businesses outsource paycheck management; imagine what would you do if such a company fails to pay you your salary?
In this case we also talk about damaging someone's posessions, which are represented here with a Steam account. Many people said already that all you buy is the account, and once you lose it you have nothing. Well, a whole lot of accounts are lost - hopefully only temporarily, but nevertheless their property has been damaged already.
And finally with regard to being unable to use the product, that's literally true here - people paid for something and they can't use it.
This is the biggest legitimate concern about Steam that most people voice - what happens if Valve goes under? I've been hoping someone in the gaming industry with enough pull could simply ASK Valve the question:
... or some variation on that theme. Newell should have an answer for this, if he doesn't, he should be pushed hard enough to need one. I feel as though there's no reason to distrust any response he gives, so if he says they've got a plan, that's enough.
''If in the unlikely event that you were unable to continue providing authentication services within a reasonable amount of time, would you make certain people could activate the game?''
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
Did you even realize you need to LOG IN before you can go to offline mode... siriously WTF is with that
...you had to know this was going to happen.
I mean, this company comes up with a digital restrictions management scheme that if Microsoft tried you'd all be screaming bloody murder, but just because it's from a game company, and you really want to play, you are willing to overlook the truly draconian measures they came up with to control distribution of their software.
The way I see it, you all gave up your freedom to live in a fascist state because the government promised you something you valued more than freedom. Now you have to live with it. Good luck.
Just remember, if we reward the companies who do this sort of thing by buying their games, they have no reason to stop. Just stop buying the game. It's a freedom thing. If we keep mindlessly buying stuff, sooner or later everything will be like this. I know you want to play, but sometimes standing up for your freedoms is hard.
Peace, or Not?
Well a temporary outage of a game isn't enough to sue over IMO, and anyway, you probably said it doesn't matter when you agreed to the EULA.
Now if the same happened with my Oracle DB, yes, heads should roll.
>
>SHHHHSH! People around here are just building up a full head of steam, and you're going to ruin it.
Incorrect. Once HL2 is up and running, and in offline mode, it only remains in offline mode so long as the "ticket" is valid. The tickets have expiry dates and times.
Sorry bud. Offline mode is still pay-to-play. You currently pay $0.00 and a few TCP/IP packets per subscription period, but you're still on the subscription model.
if you bought the game in a retail store you do own a copy of the copyrighted work.
No, you own a copy of an encrypted datafile, which is worthless without the decryption key, which is available only under contract with Valve through Steam.
I want a world where all software must be open-source, even if the code is locked away in the Library of Congress for release upon the expiration of copyright.
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
HL2 is a single player offline game.
It shouldn't have to phone home each time.
Atleast on each MMORPG games I've played every time there is significant outages your account gets credited for the outage.
Howm any people are going to see even a penny compensation from valve because of this?.
The problem with this sort of error is that the problem is causing a bad login which invalidates your copy of HL2 (and any other games requiring steam) until valve gets steam working again.
It's not a simple case of "Steam servers down, do you want to play in offline mode" it's a "Our servers believe you're not authorized to play this game any longer"
Neither me nor, I suspect, you are lawyers, so probably we shouldn't debate the merits of a lawsuit here. One obvious fact is, though, that Valve can be sued regardless, and they would be insane to go to trial over such a thing.
Maybe they could be sued over this (although I'd expect something in the EULA none of us read would take the wind out of any lawsuit) but I'll bet you a solid $10 that no law suit comes out of this.
Valves gamers are mostly, what? 15-25? Even if the kids and young-adults banded together in a class action setup
a) how many of the minor's parents are going to give them permission to participate in the lawsuit
b) how many of the 18-25 players are going to bother, what with being
+generally busy--with gaming and college.
+lazy--this age bracket hardly even votes
+broke--college is expensive. So are all of those games
c) I have a feeling you'd have trouble finding a lawfirm willing to accept your case. Class action lawsuits often have trouble finding paper mills that poisened the water supply, killing infants and disabling the elderly. Fat chance sueing a gaming company because the held up their end of an EULA that you don't agree with, but obviously accepted since you're playing the game...
I just don't see it happening.
Considering the HL2 box doesn't mention the need of a service contract to work and you cannot be reasonably expected to know that beforehand (like you could be with the EULA, at least that's what the court claims but that only holds true for common EULA demands, you cannot be expected to know if an EULA introduces new rules) Valve is commiting fraud. No, telephones don't need that warning on the box because they would work if you could get a valid datastream from somewhere while circumventing Steam would likely get you a DMCA lawsuit. By omitting that warning they're either making Steam an illegal hidden cost (because it was not known at the time of sale) or invalidate it as a copy proterction mechanism (if they claim HL2 is just a receiver for data generated by services like Steam, omitting the like would make it an illegal cost).
Note that even though Steam is "free" at the moment, personally identifiable information is considered a value. And besides, forcing you too enter an additional contract to make your purchase work the way it was advertised to work out of the box is fraud (since the good was advertised to work without the contract but doesn't).
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
I appreciate your points. Maybe I did overhyperbolize a bit, I'm in a bad mood since my neighbors thought 7am sunday morning was a good time to start ripping apart their bathroom, which is right next to my bedroom :)
However I think this is a battle worth fighting over. I am not too familair with secureROM, or why the current Steam system is supposed to be better. But for what it's worth here is why I don't like it.
It appears to be a proprietary system. I don't see anyone opening their own steam servers, like people could open their own web servers back at the dawn of the internet. Without the ability to do this, we are granting our freedom to use software as with like it into the hands of one or a few companies whose interest often is at odds with our interest. Now, in the absence of monopoly this is manageable, but if Steam is the only way to play a game you paid for that it seems an intolerable restriction.
Yeah, it's only a game, but next year this kind of thing could be built into all software. In a few years it could even be built into hardware devices, such as CD players. How would you like to have to log in just to play a CD? And what happens if you borrow a CD from a friend and it doesn't work in you CD player because that CD serial number is associated with your friend's player only.
Seems unlikely to you? This is exactly the type of system that content and software people are looking to build. If we just let it happen it will be much harder to fight.
Plus there is the principle of the matter. If you think this kind of thing is bad, than it is bad whether its for a game or for some software running life support systems at your local hospital. If you think Steam is okay, well then I guess that is you point of view, which I will respect but am forced to disagree with.
Peace, or Not?
Didn't buy it. Don't even have a cracked copy, I don't like that game. It cracked nicely for a couple friends, though. The cracked copies are working perfectly, even right now, unlike the legitimate copies, which both of them bought. The legit copies, on the other hand, only worked intermittently, even in "offline" mode.
People -will- crack games. No matter what any software company does. The only question the software company needs to ask themselves is-how appealing do you want to make the cracks? The more you encumber your legitimate users with "authentication", the more of them you drive to cracked copies with that garbage removed.
To fight the war on terror, stop being afraid.
Damm right. Next time you'll get the pirate versions and have alot better game experience. For free!
Steam. Only the real customers get screwed!
"Um... Sure, I can see it'd be frustrating, but dude it's a *game*."
Point of game: Entertainment.
Game not in operation: Not entertainment.
Cost of Game: $50
Parent poster: Clueless.
"Derp de derp."
Which you can also get around if you use something like All Seeing Eye... Provided the servers in question are hooking up with that server...
The two UT2004 Master Servers are usually fairly reliable. I know the same can't be said for the U2XMP one (but I don't believe thats under Epic's control). UT2003 one is still up as well I think.
Insert Sig Here
Actually, you can't just forget about it in offline mode. I tried playing Half-Life 2 in offline mode since I'm paranoid and told ZoneAlarm to block it. After a few gaming sessions, the software kindly told me that it needed to connect to the Steam servers, and I wouldn't be able to play the game until it had a chance to update.
Tell ya what - I'll sell you a glossy, empty box. I'll even fill it with a bogus CD. When you come to me and complain that it doesn't work, I'll just tell you it's just a game.
General Forum: Yes, something is not right
Paste of the link's contents in case the forum is too bogged down:
Second, maybe my ideal is a little anti-capitalist. But anti-American? Certainly NOT! The Constitution's idea of copyright is not for the benefit of authors or publishers; it's for the benefit of the public. I'm tired of restating this argument myself; instead, please read about it here and here.
Third, DRM systems are by NO means "inevitable." For one thing, is iD going out of business because Doom 3 doesn't have DRM? Also, "selling games" is not the only possible business model -- there are several MMORPGs where the game itself is free, or even Free, but the developers make money by selling subscriptions to the server. And I'm sure there's plenty of other possibilities out there too.
And finally, if ensuring the public's rights results in fewer games, then so be it. If the US has to choose between freedom and economics, the choice must be freedom!
"[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz
This is the very reason I didn't buy in the first place. I was in the middle of Best Buy, game in hand, and asking myself "Hmm, I wonder how steam works", I went home and talked to some friends. My friend Colligan is like "Yeah, the game works fine if you don't connect to the internet", but I was still skeptical since it said that it was required on the box. I ask him if I can play it for a few hours, so we go around town, playing it until... all the sudden the game won't start up. I say to myself "ha, I knew that was going to happen," as we proceeded to the range of the nearest wireless access point in town, and I didn't buy the game.
Story in short: When a company requires that you connect ONLINE for an OFFLINE game, something is INHEIRENTLY wrong. Either they should advertise the fact that you have to have an internet connection to use the game, or they should not require users to connect to the internet to download a new key so that they can continue to play the game. It's rediculous in so many ways, and the fact that I may not even have internet and might have to get the internet just to play the game alone should be grounds for a lawsuit. Especially since stores will NOT allow you to return a game once it's been opened. I don't think those guys at Best Buy would listen to me whine, "But I didn't know you had to connect to the internet to play this OFFLINE game, honestly!! "
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
I bought the collectors edition of HL2. I'm not into counterstrike or any of the other games, I just wanted HL2. I installed it on my machine and tried to run it and ended up spending the better part of 2 weeks trying to get it working.
I had the priviledge of participating in live chat, e-mail and phone support with several different reps working from scripts in India. None really knew what was going on, but their flow charts did point in the right direction: there was some problem with the DVD or the drive that was keeping the game from running.
Upon launch the HL2.exe process would run, ramp up it's memory and processor usage and then quietly quit. no error, no feedback. After several reinstalls of both game and OS I exchanged my dvd for a new one, only to have the same problem. Rather than swap out my drive I pulled disc check crack off the internet and sure enough the game loaded without any issues.
Not only is there issues with their remote auth for the game, but there are issues with the SecuROM protection they use on the actual discs, forcing me to crack my legit copy of HL2 just to get the damn thing to *run*.
Fuck You Valve, If you release any more worthwhile games I'm just going to steal them to begin with... It's easier in the long run.
Even people that believe in pre-destiny look both ways before crossing the street.
Didn't you read? Both his friends bought the game, but couldn't use it due to steam problems, so he got them cracks which apparently works.
This has always been my beef with copy-protection, anyone getting an illegal copy are much better off then are the ones who pay.
They don't have to locate a manual, or check key-codes, or log-in to somé bogus webservice. They dont have a problem making a backup and they dont have a problem installing on a second machine so they can play with a friend (actually, blizzard handled this nicely in StarCraft - punch in your cd key once, and if you want to play with a friend you can install network play copies).
Basically these people tried to do the right thing and it didn't work, and I'm guessing they can't get their money back.
Everything's going to have DRM whether you or I like it or not. Spend some time trying to mold the future by encouraging things like Steam that at least offer something in return, rather than fighting the inevitable.
You actually believe those marketing drones??
DRM is not inevitable. How many years have copy protection schemes been implemented on games / other software? 20+ at least
In the entire history of software, how many copy protection schemes have never been broken? How many have stood for more than a single year?
Every piece of software I have EVER bought has been available through piracy, but nonetheless the software industry continues to grow.
So why is an Orwellian world of DRM surviellance inevitable?
For God's sakes, DOOM was released as shareware, and made ID millions of dollars. So don't start spouting about how the loss of freedom is something we need to accept to keep the game industry alive.
And freedom is exactly the right word. When a company spies on you to determine whether you can use a product you have already paid for, what other term could possibly apply?
Or.... pull the genius move of NOT BUY EVERYTHING MEDIA TELLS YOU TO!!!
. The actual gameplay blows donkey balls and the engine is so resource intense that it's impossible to play at a "nice looking AND >20 FPS" rate on any modest graphics card. To me that's not progress that's just "something".
I disliked the idea of Steam from the get-go. Hence I didn't buy HL2.
The problem with people like you is that you'll buy anything your told to, e.g. review posted on slashdot about upcoming HL2 engine, then IGN hosts a screenshot gallery, then you simply must own this game. It has l33t properties.
Even if you think "I'm deciding to buy this" if you actually do buy it, it's totally the marketing wheels spinning.
Not only that but as fun as HL2 is, it does get a bit tiring after a while. When I'm at my friends place playing the game I spend most of my time finding inventive ways to make the exploding red barrels explode all at once.
I fell for Doom3 and what a ripoff that was. Generally I don't buy games first day but Doom3 was hyped and it looked very sweet. Then it turns out to be "YetAnotherStaticWorldWithShinyPolyRendering(tm)"
Now I rent first [xbox/ps2] then buy. At least losing 5$ for a crappy game is better than losing 40$.
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
Firstly, I was able to log on last night. Everything was fine. If I hadn't been, I would have played some other game. Secondly, if Valve went tits-up, I would be sad, and then realize that for my $60 buck for HL2/CS:S, I had gotten more gameplay than $60 bucks had bought me since Final Fantasy VII. I have games right now that I don't play at all, just because they bore me. What if Valve died? The world will keep turning, folks.
If nobody pirated their games, there would be no need for the DRM. Pirates are at least as responsible for DRM as media companies. So if you don't like DRM, then stop pirating games, music, and movies. You're just making life difficult for paying customers.
This is a spurious argument. "So if you don't like DRM, then stop..."? What will that accomplish? Nothing. They aren't making life difficult for paying customers. If every 'pirate' stopped infringing copyright today, it wouldn't matter. The DRM genie is already out of the bottle. Media companies (Valve included) will never go back. For these companies, the doctrines of Fair Use and First Sale are "quaint and obsolete" (to turn Gonzales' phrase).
Regardless of the copyright protections outlined for us, the paying customers, the difficulty is not being caused by 'piracy' [copyright infringement], it's being caused by investors. Media wants to bleed a stone when it comes to music, movies, games, etc. because they are driven by one goal only to increase return on investment. Unfortunately, the real solution would be to turn back the coporate influence in Washington, reduce the reliance on capital markets, and trend back towards Constitutional government. You're a bright reader though, and know this will never come to pass.
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
While I'm positive people have voiced their opinions to Valve, I thought it was time I did so as well. I've been boycotting HL2 and Steam for a while now, and who knows, maybe my e-mail is the one that'll send them over to the light side :)
Anyways, here it is if anyone cares:
To whom it may concern,
I thought it was time to voice my opinion regarding Steam. I have been a HUGE Half-Life fan. I've purchased multiple copies of half-life so that we can play multiplayers together at home (I didn't even have to do that since they were all LAN games and the CD keys don't appear to be enforced by LAN games, but still, I've paid money for multiple copies of HL because it's a good game and I buying software is a nice way to support the companies who put out decent software). I still play half-life, cs, tf, and dod on a regular basis.
However, with regards to Half-life 2, I cannot justify giving you any money for the game (no matter how good it is), and I have voiced this opinion heavily to my friends and co-workers. Many of them are unaware of the reasons why they would not want to purchase half-life 2 until they heard from me and now they agree completely and refuse to buy Half-life 2.
The main issue that has prompted my unwillingness to purchase half-life 2 is Steam. The DRM measures used in Steam are draconian. If I purchase single player game, I see absolutely no need to access an online system just to play the game. Apparently, on 1/29/2005 many users suffered from the exact problem that I had envisioned when I first heard about this. If something goes wrong, you can't play. Yes, I know about offline mode. However, offline mode doesn't really work well I only boot to Windows to play games. Each start of the steam client apparently "phones home". This is absolutely unacceptable to do for a single player game. The fact that if something goes wrong on your end could prevent me from playing a single player game I purchased is completely absurd.
I understand the need to protect yourself from piracy, but based on the information I've been reading, pirates have already figured out how to circumvent Steam. At this point, you're hurting your paying customers more than pirates. Apparently, paying customers (once you have their money) rank lower than pirates.
The second point I have with Steam is a minor one. Cheat banning. I understand why you do cheat banning. My problem with cheat banning is your methods of dealing with it:
1) If the cheats are removed and one BUYS a new cd-key then they can play on the secure servers. Keyword here is an individual has to BUY a new key after removing all the cheats. This is analogous to our legal system sentencing someone, then saying, if you bribe me, your sentence is commuted. This is absurd and doesn't reflect well in my eyes, as well as a significant chunk of the gaming community. I absolutely understand the need for cheat protection, but when the solution to it, after being caught, is to give you more money, well, you can see how that looks.
2) Directly from your FAQ:
"Valve's Anti-Cheat system (VAC) automatically detects programs and other methods used to cheat in Valve's games and does not have any false positives in the system.
We will not un-ban you regardless of the reason. It doesn't matter if someone else used your account, you didn't know what you were doing was wrong, your brother or sister downloaded a cheat you didn't know about, etc."
How can you guarantee that there are no false positives? Any detection system is guaranteed to be exploitable. It just needs time to figure it out. What if someone figures out the exploit and were to release a W32.Steam.Cheat virus, how would you handle this? Based on your FAQ, VAC can do no wrong and you won't un-ban anyone. Will this statement stand?
This second point regarding cheat banning is completely speculative not knowing what your VAC system actually does. However, the tone of the "We will not un-ban you regardless of the reason" once again solidifies in my mind that you care more about
Um, Halo 2 sold over 1.4 million units since launch, on the larger audience console market, and with advertisement that rivaled movies. Where the HELL did you pull 1.7 million units for Half-Life 2 from? Final Fantasy 7 sold like over 4 million units TO DATE, and you're telling me a PC game is halfway to outdoing the most fan acclaimed RPG? Yeah, RIGHT.
according to Vavle they have sold over 1.7 MILLION copies of HL2. Whine all you want as long as everyone buys the games they will keep adding more crap like steam.
Speak with your dollars and stop buying this crap. Find another game or make one of your own.
Artists? Con-men who rip off their customers and make their lives miserable, more like. The pirated release is actually easier to install and faster to play.
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