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Mature Video Games in the Minority
Steve writes "Of the record breaking $7.3 billion in video games sold in 2004, only 18 percent of them were rated "M". This is surprising, considering some media watch groups have great concern over inappropriate video games landing in the hands of children, even claiming that 60-90 percent of video games have violent themes. Filefront uncovers the real trend and includes quotes from ESRB President Patricia Vance."
Is this 18% by title, or 18% by sales? No, I did not RTFA :)
See my journal for slashdot ID's by year. Mine created in 2005. http://slashdot.org/journal/289875/slashdot-ids-by-year
What percentage of top sellers are 'M'-rated?
Their definition of "violent themes" likely includes plumbers jumping on the heads of turtles.
1) What percentage do you have to reach before there's a legitimate issue of "inappropriate video games landing in the hands of children"? 90%? 185%? 18% seems well above that threshold to me.
2) "Violent themes" and "M rated" are not the same thing. There's no contradiction between those two numbers.
3) As others have said, is this 18% of titles or of sales? The FA doesn't say.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
yeah, parental groups can easily say there's 60%+ with violent "themes". Their definition includes anything where something blows up, gets killed, burned, etc. Even the original Super Mario Bros and Legend of Zelda fall under their definition. We all know why they do it, so I wont waste teh space here. But things like this 18% of all sales are of M games is something that needs to be brought up, especially since it's firm fact, whereas the 60-90% figures are based on subjective measures. Unfortunately, the propogandist isn't interested in fact, they're more interested in public opinion.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
The question is what does Medi Family consider a "violent theme"? Some people would see an Italian Plumber jumping on the head of a giant walking mushroom as violence.
LOAD "SIG",8,1
IMHO, the rating "M" doesn't equal "mature" games, e.g., I don't consider Postal 2 or GTA "mature".
(But yes, I like them. I'm just a particularly immature 30-year-old nerd).
I don't need a signature.
Sounds like a case for Homeland Security. Time to deport him to Italy, along with his ahem "brother" Luigi.
Don't blame Durga. I voted for Centauri.
18% of $17bn is $3bn.
It's staggering to realize that fully 1/4 of the adult revenue was copies of GTA.
And that most of them went to minors.
The article claims that the watchdog groups say 60-90% of ALL games are violent, however what the page actually says is 60-90% of THE MOST POPULAR games are violent. This sounds more believable to me, when you factor in GTA and HALO's marketshare.
This is not to say I'm siding with the watchdog, because it's an even less useful point then the misquote. Video games that are popular are popular because people buy them. If people are buying violent video games more then others, that's not the manufacturer or retailer or anybody's fault but the buyer's. Manufacturers make what people want them to make, or else they'd make no money.
I definately agree with the article's claims that these watchdog groups are incredibly out of touch with what parents want. I worked in retail last christmas, and on one of our busiest days of the season a group of 6 or 7 'violent-game protesters' came into the store. They were all women, probably 60-70 years old, and they kept chanting about how video games make our kids violent. I kept wanting to remind them that it was their generation that participated in world war 2, korea, and vietnam, not mine. And it's their generation right now that's invading Iraq and showing us that, apparently, the only way to solve some problems is through violence. See? I can generalize too.
These 'watchdog' groups piss me off.
The problem is that many games rated T contain gratuitous sex and violence, M contains straight out sex acts and A (Adults) isn't used at all.
In addition MOST kids are buying and playing M titles.
http://www.lionlamb.org/factsheet1.htm
http://www.lionlamb.org/E_T_M_rated_games.htm
Now personally, I think ratings are all fluff and a giant political boondoggle to argue about silly stuff while ignoring real issues (like a poor education system). A parent should be able to look at a game like Playboy Mansion or Grand Theft Auto III and determine that that's not a good thing. Instead of claiming to be faked out by a bad rating system.
But it's hubris for the ratings board to be saying "oh look, M games make up only a small percentage of all the games available because there are also sports titles too!" The big money makers ARE M rated games because, face it, everybody bought DOAX because they love to play video game volleyball...
I wish that posting to an Internet forum required some proof of an education.
You're using the typical parent's definition of "mature" (as in it means responsible and well-behaved). That's not the correct use of the word, as mature really refers to aging.
One trend that I have noticed is that if a game has a gun in it, it gets at least a T rating. For example Jak And Daxter did not have any guns and it was rated E. Jak II and III both featured guns and was given a T rating. Many games that have you shooting robots or non humans get a T as well such as Ratchet and Clank, but once it features shooting people it will get an M. I don't know the guidelines for the rating system and what determines the boundaries between E, T, and M but noticed that the inclusion of guns seem to be part of it.
Ratings deflation is the real reason there are "so few" M rated games.
Clear, Dark Skies
Not having an "M" rating doesn't mean it doesn't have a violent theme. Medal of Honor is rated "T" and it looks like it's based on a violent theme. The fact it has no blood doesn't make it any less violent: You're still shooting people and they still scream in pain.
I know we have all played Diablo 2. Its rated M. I don'y know why it just is. Its recockulou, that a game wher you use magic to kill made up animals and save the world is rated M. On a side note, is Madden considered violent becuase you tackle people?
R* games seem to revel in being the violent and edgy game company, whereas lucasarts are reknown for thier familyesque non-violence (non-human death).
Carmagedon the original sprite based version was banned in Germany, but I haven;t heard too many reports of games being banned now.
The huge ammount of FPS and RTS games being developed would make me question those stats - but I am not an advocate of violent games for children.
I realised that NO WAY in hell would I let my 11 year old nephew play GTA:SA. He plays soul blade and other fighting games, but this is different stuff.
Fighter against fighter, a match, a game, like boxing.
GTA:SA allows for free roaming and killing of innocents. I think it is hypocritical for R* to not place child models in the game, if somehow the proportional dimensions of the vertices makes a difference. They are walking a fine line. I do not see the peds in GTA:SA as innocent people, I just see them as utter bastards who would sooner steal my car as be mowed down by my gatling gun (nuttertools - cheat for nice weapons [gta:vc]).
Other adult themes (non-violent) are a little quaint in GTA:SA, and probably put in there as to say, hey, movies are violent, and movies contain sex, if we make our game contain sex, then you cannot complain about the violence.
People worry about the interactivity of violence in games, I did a small study into students attitudes, and those who thought games were too violent showed no more concern for violent games and children than those who didn't think games were too violent.
So, let games contain violent (yet fun) themes. I wouldn't particularly like a game that was violent but not fun, IMHO GTA isn't even violent, it is a depiction of violence on a non-realistic, joking scale. It isn't harmful (the other content is - I would happily let my nephew play a game where you could shoot people or accidentally run them all down!)
If you think about it, it makes sense.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
I don't think TFA, the slashdot editor or the filefront writer knows what the hell to think about all this. ("Mature Video Games in the Minority"?) Who fucking cares? Even if it were true that games inappropriate for kids are in the majority, so what? That's true for movies, music and books.
I mean that's a nice bit of bullshit statistics, that "60-90%" figure, but even if it were even remotely relevant the picture is clear as mud. For example, let's say that 60-90% of games (popular or no) "have violent themes", the first question you have to ask is what percentage of gamers are old enough that it doesn't make a damn difference (maybe 60-90% of gamers are over 18)? Next you have to ask what 60-90% of parents think constitutes "violent themes" - maybe your group's views represent only 10-40% of the population, if that. Next you could ask who buys more games - 20-somethings or (parents of) 8-year-olds (seems to me that I buy a hell of a lot more games for myself then my mom ever bought for me)? And so on, et cetera, ad nauseum.
Reading TFA's I have to ask: what the hell does the "watchdog group" (and their ilk) think should be done (or: what do they recommend in their "holiday warnings")? The games are clearly labelled with a big sticker on the front, and plenty more info on the back. And even if you think the labels are bullshit, the store employees are happy to give you more info if you really want it. Any parent stupid enough to hand their kid $50 and send them into EB without even looking into what they're getting doesn't deserve a voice in this debate - same goes for parents who bought the game themselves without doing proper research. Eliminate those numbnuts and what's the problem? What else would they have done?
That whole mediafamily.org page is just a scattershot of random facts without context, mixed up with a steaming, piled helping of bullshit. Why the hell is it being used for a reference anyway - it's like 3 goddamn years old? As for the filefront article, the spokeslady/president gamely tries to explain away the kooks, but the kooks shouldn't have been given any attention to begin with. The whole thing is just a waste of everyone's time... except for one tiny point:
Very good point, and true almost anywhere I can think of. Maybe video game stores having a children's section should be the norm. But what the hell does sniping at the ESRB do to make that happen?
It's hard to soar like an eagle when you're surrounded by turkeys.
I am 22 and was carded for buying a copy of Diablo 2 yesterday from wal-mart. (Rated M) Don't complain to the makers of such software if your son or daughter was playing a Mature game that caused them to commit violent acts. Blame the shopkeeper / store who sold the game to them.
"When it comes to kids buying games, it is RARE that I see a child purchase a game..."
This is also like saying "4 out of 5 dentists" How many kids do you watch when you go into a store? When do you go into the store? What stores do you go to? I know the cliche is that parents care about what their kids buy, but in fact I've seen many kids buy games WITHOUT their parents present or buy M rated games with their parents not even batting an eye. (I watched parents bring their 6 year old kids in to see both South Park the movie and then promptly take them right back out during the 2nd musical number.)
I'm not saying that parents aren't responsible. What's offensive to one person isn't offensive to another. It's a very complex issue and why I was against the ratings system to begin with. It's an arbitrary system of saying this or that is a violent act and X number of those equals a more mature rating.
But what I think we can all agree on is that people want a higher quality of game that doesn't pander to the more banal interests. (IE The NPR or Public Broadcasting of the common media)
An M rated game isn't an automatic best seller (there's plenty of evidence of that) What I said is that it's easier to make a successful M rated game based on sex and violence than it is to make an E rated game like Civilization, M.U.L.E. or Myst.
That you have to fall back to Sports games (which I point out in my post) proves my point. You only need to look at the shevles of the stores to see that there's far more games based on violence and scantily clad women then there are constructive purpose ones... and most of those are in the Nintendo camp.
I applaud you in your parenting efforts. I think that's the way it should be. I'm also not supporting the censorship of games via the rating system (which is why I'm against THAT). But I do sympathize with those parents that desire a better selection of games for their kids (or themselves) than the likes of Mario Party 6.
I've never really understood the take these people have on things like this.
Columbine happened because of violent video games? What? Kids become disassociated from reality because they come to believe that video games represent reality? What? It's the government's job to control media? What?
Most of the kids I've had interaction with, or have been able to listen to comments from believe that video games represent things we can NOT do in life, and therefore make a great escape.
Why is there no outrage AGAINST the people who lobby against the freedoms we enjoy in our media?
Ok. I'm ready to be modded down now.
---- How absolute the knave is! We must speak by the card, or equivocation will undo us. -Shakespeare
> some media watch groups have great concern over inappropriate video games landing in the hands of children
If your children get access to material that you deem inapropriate, it is your failing as a parent.
If my children get access to material that you deem inapropriate, it is none of your damn business!
Capiche?
Also, it is interesting to read exactly what the ratings mean!
Ratings Uncovered
For those of you too lazy or tired to click my link......
Titles rated M - Mature have content that may be suitable for persons ages 17 and older. Titles in this category may contain mature sexual themes, more intense violence and/or strong language.
According to your statistics, 1/4 of $3 billion revenue were for GTA. 1/4 of $3 billion is $750 million dollars. Assuming each copy was sold for $50 each, GTA sold 15 MILLION copies. The Final Fantasy SERIES from the original NES 1, to the most recent FFX-2 and FFXI expansion, sold more or less 25 million with FFXII soon to be released and FFXIII no doubt in development as well. Are you trying to tell me a series less than 10 years old is halfway towards outselling a series thats over 15 years old? Way to pull numbers out of your ass.
Someone explain how Need For Speed Underground 2 got an E "for everyone" (mild lyrics, suggestive themes). It is packed with Rap songs that I would not want my 5 and 7 year old daughters to hear. They love to watch me play, but the music is not suitable.
The songs are "blanked" every third or fourth word on most songs, but some of the others are *really* blatant. And the "don't play" feature doesn't persist between sessions.
...that letting someone else think for them
is an invitation to disaster. The 10th Gerbil
was too busy swearing at the Steam(tm) validation
screen to constructively comment.