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Multi-Room Wireless Sound System?

abrinton asks: "I just went into escrow on a new house. Of course, first thoughts are to the sound system. I don't want to wire. Anything. I've got a wireless network, so computers are all sorted. But what do I do for sound? I need ideas for a centrally controlled sound system that can use 802.11g for transport. I'd like to have the same music everywhere, or better still, options to play different things in different rooms. I've got access to tons of old PIII laptops, wireless gear, old computers, sound cards, etc to make this work. Has anyone got any ideas or done anything like this?"

102 of 641 comments (clear)

  1. iTunes by BWJones · · Score: 4, Informative

    I am sure someone else will mention it, but I use iTunes exclusively for music throughout our home. A central server with our entire 10k song plus collection ripped onto it resides in the study with an old Powerbook connected up to the main stereo system in the house that spins out the tunes for most to hear (A Mac Mini would be perfect for this task). Others who want to listen to something else in differing parts of the house (or outside) can also tie into iTunes and listen simultaneously to completely independent streams, all wirelessly. In fact, before they moved, my next door neighbors used to stream from our server as well.

    I don't know if PIII laptops can run iTunes or not, but my six year old Powerbook spins tunes with no problem whatsoever. For those truly particular about their music ( or those with high end home stereo systems possessing digital audio connectors ), Powermac G5's and the new 17in Powerbook also have digital audio out. Combine that with Apple's lossless audio format and you have some kick ass tunage available without ever again having to search through your CD collection for that particular song. A cheaper option is to purchase Airport Express units for differing parts of your house that each have an audio out and can plug into any available power socket.

    --
    Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    1. Re:iTunes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      " I am sure someone else will mention it, but I use iTunes exclusively for music throughout our home."

      What, are you famous or something? Why would anybody else be telling us what you use in your home? And BTW, who the hell are you anyway?

    2. Re:iTunes by over_exposed · · Score: 4, Informative

      Right on - and a PIII should have no problems running iTunes. I would highly recommend this setup. It worked great for me for two years - although my setup isn't as elaborate as yours sounds like it may be. Just make sure to A) Secure your wireless network then B) make sure Remote Desktop or a VNC solution are enabled on all of the machines. That way you can either pick the music you want to play in that room FROM that room, or you can connect remotely and make changes that way.

      --
      "The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his." - Patton
    3. Re:iTunes by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative
      Your system (as you described it) lacks two things:
      1. A `push' capability - i.e. the ability to select the music being played in a different room, and
      2. The ability to synchronise the music in multiple locations.
      Apple could add both of these very easily with two modifications to iTunes. The first would allow a computer running iTunes to be set as a slave - the machine would appear as an Airport Express station to other instances of iTunes on the local network. The second would allow you to send a stream to multiple locations (Airport Express nodes, slaved iTunes clients and your own speakers). I honestly don't know why these features aren't in iTunes already.
      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:iTunes by Synthageek · · Score: 3, Informative

      I have run up to 5 streams (3 wired) and 2 802.11g from an old 600 Mhz P3 without any need for rebuffering the stream. The only downside to using iTunes is that the functionality to stream beyond ones own network was phased out. It would have been much better had the left in the ability to stream over the internet so I could listen to my collection at work.

    5. Re:iTunes by redheadedokie · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yep. I had pretty much the same setup in my old house. My G4 lived in my bedroom and we had a PowerBook G3/500 hooked up to the stereo and tv. Sharing MP3's wirelessly with iTunes worked flawlessly. We also used the PowerBook to watch downloaded TV shows (BBC stuff not availabled in the US). It'd stream most formats (Divx, Xvid, etc) wirelessly from the G4...but higher bitrates needed to be copied over first. Everything looked fantastic when connected via S-Video. Also, the only real limitation to the AirPort Express is that they will only play what's playing on the main iTunes "server"--i.e. no different songs in different rooms. Another cool thing that you might consider is to have a BlueTooth cell phone. I never got around t to it, but there is some software called Salling Clicker that'll let you control iTunes (skip songs and stuff) from your cell phone. Here's the link (too lazy to do HTML at the moment) http://homepage.mac.com/jonassalling/Shareware/Cli cker/

    6. Re:iTunes by steelem · · Score: 2, Interesting

      As far as i can tell, your setup doesn't require iTunes to work at all - you're just sharing a massive collection on a central server and accessing it via iTunes (unless you are relying on Apple lossless as your format of choice). I do have a question though - if you have multiple airport express units, can you stream different tunes to each? Not sure how this would be done. My problem is that I have apple DRM'd songs that i'm too lazy to burn and re-rip, so i need an iTunes player for each stream, and there's a limit to how many can be authorized...

    7. Re:iTunes by LincolnQ · · Score: 2, Informative

      FYI, you can un-DRM your iTMS songs with Hymn. This is exactly what Hymn is intended for. Very convenient.

    8. Re:iTunes by nine-times · · Score: 2, Informative
      No, you can't stream different songs to different Airport Express units at the same time from the same computer. In fact, you can't stream the same song to different units from the same computer. IN FACT, you cannot stream a song to your airport express unit and play the song through your computer speakers at the same time. If you're playing a song, and you tell it to play on an airport express unit, the audio coming out of your speakers will cease.

      So, in order to use iTunes and Airport Express for this purpose, you'd need to use multiple computers running iTunes. (unless Apple changes this)

      I'm not sure why, exactly. Maybe it has to do with some difficulty keeping everything in sync?

    9. Re:iTunes by mr+i+want+to+go+home · · Score: 4, Informative
      iTunes has both these capabilities.

      1. Requires airport express. You name the Airport Express(es) as "Living Room", "Kitchen", etc. You can then select these from any wi-fi Mac and stream to each one (ie - push). Airport Express has digital audio-out, BTW.

      2. You only need one central music library really. You then share that library with iTunes. Any other copies of iTunes on the network (Mac or PC) can the see that library and any playlists on it, and play music from it. I haven't noticed any lag when playing music shared this way, even over wireless networks even with 3 or 4 people sharing.

      If you require true synchronisation of multiple libraries, then a little rsync is your friend. Here's the options I use to keep my 2 libraries in sync (note: I only add music on one machine, so this is a one way sync) - I'm not sure what Slashcode will do to the following, so you may have to remove spaces...

      rsync -v -r -C --ignore-existing --rsh="ssh" /users/my_local_account/music/itunes me@myserver_name_or_ip_address:/users/my_account_o n_the_server/music/

      The one thing that iTunes lacks that annoys me is the ability to remotely control another copy of iTunes (like on the server) from my laptop. I actually have a script to do this through the shell, but I'd really like to be doing it through the iTunes interface.

    10. Re:iTunes by rogueuk · · Score: 2, Informative

      For the even lazier, you can do it in 1/7th of the characters than the explanation.

      Just use Slashdot's <URL:link> tag
      http://homepage.mac.com/jonassalling/Shareware/Cli cker/

    11. Re:iTunes by MultiModeRb87 · · Score: 3, Insightful
      Unfortunately, I think that the first post in this thread was referring to sound synchronization. It's easy to get multiple machines to have access to the same song files, but it's more difficult to get multiple machines to output that sound in phase with one another.

      The only way that you could reliably make that happen would be to calibrate your network of machines via a test sound file and a microphone. And even then, I don't know how well the synchronization would hold up if the machines are running anything else. Maybe you need to continuously run such a calibration program on the master machine, and restart/insert delays via pause/unpause to remote machines to correct slippage?

    12. Re:iTunes by Synonymous+Yellowbel · · Score: 2
      2. You only need one central music library really. You...

      By "synchronisation" I think the GP meant playing the same music simultaneously in multiple rooms. This is, in my experience, the toughest thing to get right when dealing with digital streaming.

      steve

    13. Re:iTunes by Phrack · · Score: 4, Informative

      Doing iTunes sharing from a central Linux box:

      http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=200 30 711140157143

      Old article, but it'll be a step in a particular direction should someone be looking for that.

      No, it's not a player.. it's just a repository that looks like a shared iTunes to other clients.

      --
      Dump the IRS - http://www.fairtax.org
    14. Re:iTunes by iamhassi · · Score: 2, Informative
      " Right on - and a PIII should have no problems running iTunes."

      Just to clarify so we don't have to say "should" anymore: I have a compaq e500 p3 700mhz laptop that has no problem running iTunes.

      According to Apple you need Windows XP or 2000, 500mhz, 128megs, and of course a hard drive of sufficient size to store whatever music you have.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    15. Re:iTunes by tgibbs · · Score: 3, Informative

      The one thing that iTunes lacks that annoys me is the ability to remotely control another copy of iTunes (like on the server) from my laptop. I actually have a script to do this through the shell, but I'd really like to be doing it through the iTunes interface.

      The program you want is called NetTunes. It provides a remote iTunes window for your music server, although the remote iTunes is not as responsive as a local copy. I'm using it to run a "headless" beige G3 as a music server.

    16. Re:iTunes by homesteader · · Score: 2, Informative

      There's another little app called BrowserTunes which allows you to control iTunes via web browser.

      http://homepage.mac.com/markburgess3/browserTune s/ index.htm

  2. Hmmm, go wired! by Paolo+DF · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, if you are serious about sound, you really should go for wired solutions. If you can't go for wires, then you should consider some good (and expensive) wireless sound speakers. If you -finally- are just thinking of PC-like sounds, well, I think I can't help. Sorry. PS: I'd stress you to go for the wired solutions. And wire the speakers with MonsterCable or similar. drop the cheap car-audio stuff. Ciao!

    --
    Pumbaa! I don't wonder; I know.
    1. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by pdbogen · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm going to have to agree. Wireless is all well and good, but don't use it if you don't bloody have to. Wireless is for laptops, so you can walk around with internet. Are you going to wander around with a speaker in your hand? Anyway, I can't see a hacked-together wireless sound solution with P3 laptops and whatnot being nearly as good as a few well-placed wired speakers.

    2. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by Matey-O · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You had me all the way up to Monster Cable. [Shudder] You're falling for a lot of marketing hype.

      I've got a hybrid house with wireless iTunes going to the kids' iMac upstairs, the Wired Xbox playing audio in the family room (cat 5 to the xbox, optical from there to the home theatre). You do NOT want to pipe video over 802.11g. You can do it, but if the main living spaces can be wired, leave the wireless bandwidth for better uses. The 'College Audiophile stereo' is hooked up to the music server in my office.

      Any other music needs (garage) are handled by my iPod and an iTrip.

      --
      "Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
    3. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Anyway, I can't see a hacked-together wireless sound solution with P3 laptops and whatnot being nearly as good as a few well-placed wired speakers.

      Digital sound. Wired, wireless, whatever, the transport medium does not really make a difference. It's 1's and 0's and whether they get from point A to point B via a wire or via EM it does not matter. P3 laptops should be fine for reassembling that audio and if they have a USB port or other digital audio out and connect to good speakers there is no reason why the sound quality would be any worse than any other solution. The wirelessness just makes it more portable (if you are a renter) and keeps you from having to run wires through your walls, ceiling, or floor.

    4. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by fishbowl · · Score: 5, Informative


      "You had me all the way up to Monster Cable. [Shudder] You're falling for a lot of marketing hype."

      ABX testing has shown Home Depot 18 gauge lamp cord to be identical or even superior to Monster Cable in all respects.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    5. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by tbase · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Absolutely. If you haven't even closed on the house yet, chances are you're going to be there long enough to make the little extra effort of running wires worthwhile.

      Even forgetting about quality issues for a moment, totally wireless is going to be way more of a headache than crawling around in the attic for a couple afternoons. It's not like a lack of interference now means it won't be a problem in the future.

      And if you plan ahead and think out every possible configuration, and run all the cabling at once, you'll thank yourself later. I've got 4 RG-6 feeds and 4 cat-6 feeds going to our entertainment center, and I'm glad I went overboard when we bought our house. I'm already using almost all of them.

      Don't forget about smoke detectors (you may want one tied to a monitored security system someday), motion sensors, alarm system keypads, cable tv / modem, Satellite TV (multiple feeds for PVRs)... you just cannot go completely wireless, even in this day and age. I suppose if you could you wouldn't have to worry about night lights, because after a while you'd be able to act as your own light source.

      --

      666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
    6. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by QMO · · Score: 4, Funny

      Forget digital, go vinyl.

      But, if you're really serious:

      Forget viny, forget CD, forget DVD audio, forget 8-track. The only way to go is to get the whole orchestra in your house, and bring John Williams himself home to conduct it.

      Anything less is for pikers who might as well just listen to 75-year-old AM radio playing scratchy wire-recordings, or the neighborhood cats singing in the street.

      --
      Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
    7. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by the+quick+brown+fox · · Score: 2, Funny

      You had me all the way up to "or even superior". :)

    8. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by Evangelion · · Score: 2, Funny


      But it's not made by MONSTER! They're the best! They have to be, because they're so expensive and glossy, right? There's no way they could charge that much and get away with it if thier product wasn't superior to everything else, right?

    9. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by Jerf · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I didn't know if he was joking or not, but I considered it likely enough that it was worth googling. It actually took a bit, but I believe he was referring to this, wherein it is basically revealed that there is no difference between 16 gauge cabling and, well, anything, even up into the thousands of dollars.

      I have no counter examples to offer up. I see no reason why this shouldn't be true.

      I believe the snarky comments should be saved for those falling for the hype, not those who do actual scientific testing and puncture it.

    10. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by winkydink · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Mot that I'm advocating Monster cables, but 2 listeners doing a "blind test" who cannot distinguish anything proves nothing. What was the source? What are the qualifications of said listeners? 2 is very small sample size. Who were the 2? The guy and his wife?

      --

      "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey

    11. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by FreshlyShornBalls · · Score: 2, Informative
      And if you plan ahead and think out every possible configuration, and run all the cabling at once, you'll thank yourself later.

      I can't agree with this more strongly. I just closed on my house a year and a half ago. About the smartest thing I ever did was to handle all aspects of electrical / wiring first. Added smoke detectors, updated the service, outlets and ran cable. I have a wireless network running, as well. And it's great for surfing from the couch. But for video, audio and "real" computer work, you can't beat a wire.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank.
    12. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Professional "golden ears" refuse to submit to blind tests. However, some tests using a placebo cable while the real cable was hidden showed that the "golden ears" consistently claim to hear what the marketing information for the cable they think they are testing says they should hear. When the placebos are swapped and the actual cable being used is left fixed they consistently pick the best looking placebo.

      http://home.austin.rr.com/tnulla/duncable.htm

    13. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by borkus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wired, wireless, whatever, the transport medium does not really make a difference. It's 1's and 0's and whether they get from point A to point B via a wire or via EM it does not matter.

      As long as the format is digital, you are correct. But typically the signal between between the amplifier and the speakers is analog. For analog, the quality of the connection matters.

      In sound terms, you typically have four parts -
      1. Source (in this case digital music files).
      2. A Digital to Audio Converter.
      3. Amplifier
      4. Speakers

      Wireless between points one and two (say a music server and a laptop playing the files) can be digital. However, at some point, you have to convert to analog.

      In my option, a good setup for playback in each room would be an old laptop hooked up to an old stereo receiver/amp wired to a nice pair of bookshelf speakers - something with at least 5/12-6/12 low drivers. If you look around, you can probably find some nice used stereo amplifiers - pioneer, onkyo, yamaha. You can even buy decent new stereo amps for a small amount of money these days. I'd spring for new speakers in any event.

    14. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by jwdb · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, any cable's fine as long as it has negligible inductance and capacitance. A bit of resistance is ok - it'll just reduce the ammount of power reaching your speakers, but as long as your amp can handle a variety of load resistances it shouldn't be a problem.

      Distortion due to cables mainly arises when the cable resistance becomes frequency dependent. At that point it will damp some tones more than others, and everything falls apart. I suppose you could fix it by playing with the equalizer, but that is far from a good solution.

      Prognosis: use a braided cable (many small strands, not one solid) with decent quality copper to keep the resistance down and your music should sound fine. The braids will reduce the increase in resistance due to the skin effect (where high-frequency current migrates to the surface of the conductor, reducing the effective cross-section of your cable).

      Jw

    15. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by eggoeater · · Score: 4, Informative

      I use to run a pro-sound company (we ran big sound systems for bands and DJs). Every now-and-then I'd get to a gig and find out I was missing a speaker cable or not have a long enough speaker cable to get to the speakers they owner wanted outside on the deck,etc.

      Whenever that happened I just ran to the nearest Lowe's or WalMart and bought two 16 gauge extension cords, chop off the ends and put Neutrik speaker connectors on it. Worked great and got a 100ft speaker cable for 8 dollars. You actually don't need more than 16 guage unless you're pushing serious wattage (>150 RMS).
      Of course for any install job I would use 14 and 12 guage.

    16. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by Webmoth · · Score: 2, Informative

      "...when the cable resistance becomes frequency dependent..."

      I believe this is known as impedance. If I'm wrong someone will correct me, so I'm posting AC just in case.

      On another note, "skin effect" really only becomes apparent at high frequencies. Low frequencies, such as those in your subwoofer channel, are less impacted by coarser-stranded cable.

      --
      Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
    17. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by ohsoot · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You do NOT want to pipe video over 802.11g.

      Why does everyone say this? I stream video over my wireless connection all the way to my basement and I can't tell the difference. I'm talking about compressed video I downloaded off the internet ie: simpson's episodes and movies. Am I just lucky or when people say this do they mean uncompressed DVD's? I'm wondering b/c I don't have a DVD player on the desktop I stream from, so I can't try it.

    18. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by iamhassi · · Score: 2, Funny
      "ABX testing has shown Home Depot 18 gauge lamp cord to be identical or even superior to Monster Cable in all respects."

      what about the "cool sounding name" respect? Did they do a survey to see which name sounds better? I think not, I'm sure "Monster Cable" sounds better than "Home Depot 18 Gauge Lamp Cord".

      Which would you wanna tell your friends you wired your house with, hmmmmmmm?

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    19. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by theguru · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You say you disagee, but I think we're on the same page. Soldering connectors onto the cable is a great way to get a good connection. It's more trouble than most people will go to though. Hopefully, your cheapo connectors don't corrode any time soon, or break as they are reconnected when you have to move something. I've seen cheap ratshack RCA connectors fuse themselves to cheaper components with some sort of galvanic action due to dis-similar metals.

      Cheap cables that are never disturbed will have better, longer lives than top dollar cables that are constantly moved.

    20. Re:Hmmm, go wired! by Kiryat+Malachi · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, they're digital to the amp, at best. If they're digital headed into the speaker, then they are internally amplified and will be converted to analog at the input to the amp, at the very latest. I.E. they're run through a DAC and put into the amplifier, since the only way you can amplify sound for a speaker is with... an amplifier. And amplifiers (despite marketspeak calling lovely Class D amps "Digital") are inherently analog processes.

      If they're biamped, they might be digital through the crossover even, but that's only because the amplifier is after the crossover. The amplifier is, and will always be, analog.

      --

      ---
      Mod me down, you fucking twits. Go ahead. I dare you.
      (I read with sigs off.)
  3. revealing quote by halfelven · · Score: 3, Funny

    Of course, first thoughts are to the sound system.

    Geek. :-)

    1. Re:revealing quote by wwahammy · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'd think a geek would first think of how they'd install a fiber optic network or some such wired network.

  4. Same music in every room by eln · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is so easy, I don't even know why you had to post it to Slashdot.

    So, here it is, how to have the same music play in every room in your house, in 3 easy steps:

    1.) Buy stereo system with very large speakers
    2.) Put stereo system in one room of your house. Orient speakers so they face toward the rest of the house.
    3.) Turn volume up all the way.

    If you still have some "dead spots" in the house where the sound doesn't reach, you'll need my specidal educational pamphlet "Sledgehammers and You," available for only $9.95, plus shipping and handling.

  5. New House? by CommanderData · · Score: 5, Interesting

    When you say "new house" do you mean that it's being built for you right now? If so, forget the wireless idea immediately. Go to Home Depot, buy boxes of Cat5/6 cable, spools of coax, and heavy duty speaker cable. Pick out a closet somewhat close to your living/family room and make it the distribution hub for your new home. Get your butt down to the construction site and run coax, network, and speaker wires to all the rooms of the house from this central location. It also wouldn't hurt to run RCA, S-Video, and maybe even VGA or DVI from the closet to the expected location of your main TV.

    Any wires that you do not plan to use right away can be left inside the walls (Take pictures of EVERYTHING before they sheetrock the place, you'll be glad you did later when you want to find the wires!). The rest of the stuff should have standard boxes that you can add the appropriate wall plates to later.

    Smarthome is your friend for a lot of the finishing touches. I recommend a box like the ChannelPlus that allows you to insert your own audio/video on an unused cable channel. I did that and now I can watch DVDs or Movies coming from the computer in the closet on any TV in the house. ChannelPlus thoughtfully has IR devices that feed back up the coax line to the source so your remote controls will activate everything hidden in the closet.

    I could go on and on about this- I've done it for my current home and will be building another home this year. I've already started thinking about improvements to my original layout :)

    --
    Urge to post... fading... fading... RISING!... fading... fading... gone.
    1. Re:New House? by anthony_dipierro · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A gigabit per second should be enough speed for anyone.

      Seriously though, put the money you'd spend running fibre in a bank account and it'll easily pay for the upgrade when it's actually necessary. Between compounded interest and dropping prices due to better technologies, it rarely makes sense to look 20 years into the future when it comes to computer equipment.

    2. Re:New House? by Tekoneiric · · Score: 2, Informative

      My gf and I recently had a house built and we wired it with CAT5 and coax. While I'm not happy with the builder we had, they did let us go into the house and wire it.

      We also took lots of photos of the house of the house during various stages of the build.

      -- Andrea --

      --
      *It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
    3. Re:New House? by jedinite · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No question, if you're still in the pre-rough-in stages (i.e. no drywall up yet), wire your house.

      Even if you've got drywall down, depending on your insulation type you may still be able to fish wires through, especially if your ceiling/floor is not directly insulated - you can easily run wire parallel to floor joice if its not insulated, cut a small hole at the ceiling, and fish through the insulated walls - assuming its a spray-in non-hardening insulation, which most people use these days - my house is blown recycled newspaper which is apparently a very common insulation.

      In more detail, I just (this weekend) closed on my new custom-built house. I've got 1.26 miles of wire in the house (easily calculated since everyone sold me the wire I used by the foot). Cat5e for phone, Cat6e for data, speakerwire, multiple coax runs to almost every room (so I can RF-mod signals and broadcast them to any other room), and in appropriate places audio, video, even two 25' DVI runs and two 25' RGB runs. In fact, voice/data/coax terminates to a Futuresmart panel in my furnace room where signals can be routed...

      As someone has already said, wireless is good for walking around with the laptop/etc. Not what you want for speakers. But not to mention when you've got the opportunity to build a gigabit backbone for the majority of the house, take it while you still can. Especially if you're serious about moving music or especially video.

      My recently-received Mac Mini will be taking over as a media center in my home theater, and i'll be pulling MP3s and videos from my WinXP boxes via Samba (cut me some slack on the Windows comments, my dedicated server is BSD but XP still is my best machine for gaming and video).

      --

      ---------
      There is no try at jedinite.com
    4. Re:New House? by anakin876 · · Score: 2, Informative

      a cheaper solution would be to install cable runs. Maybe a 1 or 2 inch diameter pipe that runs to the different places in your house. Put a pull string in for each place you want to go and you have now almost entire "future proofed" your setup. You can pull whatever is new and great with little or no destruction to the walls or anything.

  6. Apple AirPort with AirTunes by DaKrzyGuy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Apple makes a neat little device that you can use to stream music to and hooks up to your stereo. This combined with iTunes is a great way to play music all over the house.

  7. Sonos might be your answer... by klubar · · Score: 5, Informative

    You might look into the Sonos system (previously discussed on /. It's wireless and allows unique content at each location. I saw an early demo and it was very impressive. Cost might be a factor, but the system and controllers have a very nice look and feel.

  8. Don't forget by Mr2cents · · Score: 4, Funny

    > I don't want to wire. Anything.

    I suggest batteries.. a lot of them.

    --
    "It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful." - Anton LaVey
  9. [tt] lemmie get this straight... by FortKnox · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You put down money for a NEW house. Studs still in the walls? Where wiring up speakers and such is a piece of cake. Putting in a full sound system in every room (you can do it yourself for free) is pretty simple and easy to do...

    But you'd rather drop a big clunky P3 in the room with a wireless card.... why? I see no advantage in it. Wire up speakers in every room. All wires go to computer room. Wires then attached to a single machine that manipulates everything.

    But, being a computer geek and having a buncha P3 boxes lying about is what makes you happy, knock yourself out.

    --
    Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
    1. Re:[tt] lemmie get this straight... by cr0sh · · Score: 2, Informative
      If it is a brand new house, and built like all the other expensive crackerboxes I've seen - it is anything but a "piece of cake".

      First off, in most house construction, both interior and exterior walls have horizontal firebreaks between the vertical studs (ie, an 18 inch 2x4 running horizontally), to provide fire protection (keeps the fire from getting to the attic as quick). So, to drill holes for wires (any wiring) after the sheetrock is on - means a flexible drill and a bit of luck - or punching holes in the drywall and patching (or replacing the drywall). Furthermore, so many damn new houses now have "vaulted ceilings" - where there is no "attic" - so fishing wires through those areas is a real nightmare.

      It sounds like the house though, hasn't been built yet - but unfortunately, you run into other problems. You typically aren't allowed to run your own lines (liability issues on the construction site), nor can you hire your own contractor in many cases (liability issues generally, once again). You typically have to use the "approved" wiring contractor for the subdivision - and since he has it "locked up" - he will gouge you for EVERY penny - $100.00 or more per cable pull/drop is not unheard of.

      Just several more reasons NOT to buy an overpriced cardboard/styrofoam shitbox they call a "house". Want real value? Buy a pre-1980 block constructed house, or something older. Make sure you get a good inspection before you sign. Check out attic access, etc - see how easy or hard it is to run lines yourself (btw - if you buy too old of a home, you might have more trouble than it is worth - especially if you need to replace the entire electrical system because of age, or you need to drill or make holes in plaster ceilings or walls).

      Or, better yet, if you can afford it - have your house custom built. You might want to look into the idea of a steel or alluminum frame building, or precast concrete, or rammed earth, or any of a number of alternative building systems which you might find easier to wire as they are built or afterward. One other thing: if you do build and wire it yourself - run the wiring in conduit with pull strings for later upgrades - you will thank me later...

      --
      Reason is the Path to God - Anon
    2. Re:[tt] lemmie get this straight... by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You put down money for a NEW house. Studs still in the walls? Where wiring up speakers and such is a piece of cake. Putting in a full sound system in every room (you can do it yourself for free) is pretty simple and easy to do...

      But you'd rather drop a big clunky P3 in the room with a wireless card.... why? I see no advantage in it. Wire up speakers in every room. All wires go to computer room. Wires then attached to a single machine that manipulates everything.

      But, being a computer geek and having a buncha P3 boxes lying about is what makes you happy, knock yourself out.


      You must be new here. This is ask.slashdot.org, where periodically through the day Cliff posts a question that basically falls in two categories. 1) Its something that can be found in the first 10 links on a google search or 2) its something completely crazy where someone is too cheap but geeky enough to spend hours/weeks/months on end to get a half baked solution that usually can be bought off the shelf at a reasonable price.

      Yeah, if I were building a new house I would have it wired for both ethernet and an audio system. Heck, a grand in cables and jacks (much lest than 1% of building price) could very well add value to your home in the future.

      Welcome to ask.slashdot.org.

    3. Re:[tt] lemmie get this straight... by clausiam · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I think you're forgetting one tiny little thing: Resale value.

      The demand for pre-1980 houses or custom built houses is much smaller than for new run-of-the-mill houses, so you may end up with a house you can't sell when you need to.

  10. Try out Sonos by Viscount9 · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's a wireless system out there that already does this: Sonos.com. You can check out the review at Engadget and I believe they won an award at CES. plus it was on Queer Eye, I think. It has a pretty damn sweet looking wirelsss controller with a color LCD screen.

  11. Roku Soundbridge by davegust · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Roku Labs has a neat solution.

    1. Re:Roku Soundbridge by kraut · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or a slimdevices Squeezebox. http://www.slimdevices.com/ - I've just bought one, and it works a treat. Sounds good, to. And it's cheaper than the Roku stuff.

      --
      no taxation without representation!
  12. Here's how by doombob · · Score: 2, Funny

    What you need to do is go ahead and send me all of those PIII laptops you have available, and I'll configure all of them for you and send them back... I promise! While you're at it, you might as well send me the sound cards and wireless gear, too. Do you visit ebay very often? No? Excellent...

  13. Ethernet (wired or wireless)... by WonderSnatch · · Score: 5, Interesting

    isn't going to work. Since each sound card will have a slightly different version of 44.1-kHz, none of the rooms will match. It won't take long for the songs to get out of sync. Ethernet is also no isochronous, meaning it can't gaurantee the arrival time of packets...

    1. Re:Ethernet (wired or wireless)... by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      isn't going to work. Since each sound card will have a slightly different version of 44.1-kHz, none of the rooms will match. It won't take long for the songs to get out of sync. Ethernet is also no isochronous, meaning it can't gaurantee the arrival time of packets...

      Yeah. For lower quality settings like my kitchen and outside porch. I'm going to buy an FM transmitter. Plug it into the 1/8" out on your computer and you have complete synchronous wireless transmission inside and outside of your house. They are under $30 too.

  14. sound in all your rooms by sidhe7 · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've been playing with this problem for a couple of years now. The problem is that sound streaming over IP is basically impossible to sync properly. As mentioned above, it's pretty simple to stream different streams to each room but if you want all the rooms playing the same thing, each will be off by a few parts of a second. It drove me crazy. We just ran audio over Cat5e everywhere from a central system in the living room. Home Depot's got punch down blocks that convert Cat5e into an unamplified audio output RCA jack.

    1. Re:sound in all your rooms by ldspartan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've come across this problem as well, and it seems to me that it's really not very hard, just that none of the currently-available streaming protocols are designed to do it. It seems like it would be trivial to timing metadata in the stream, and have the endpoints buffer a second or two of data. Then you just need to synchronize every endpoints clock, but that's a problem that NTP has solved for years.

      Just random thoughts.

      --
      lds

    2. Re:sound in all your rooms by Wugger · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Think back, think waaaaay back, before packets, before computers. When you wanted the same music in all your rooms, what did you do? You tuned all your radios to the same station.

      Buy an FM transmitter kit for a hundred bucks, and your problems are solved. Synchronization is perfect, price is low, deployment is trivial.

  15. Wireless audio distribution by jnolen · · Score: 5, Informative

    So it turns out that this is harder that you might think. Getting different wireless audio into different rooms isn't too bad. It's mostly a function of throughput. But getting the SAME wireless audio is into different rooms and keeping it in sync is a surprisingly difficult.

    I have the SlimDevices Squeezebox (http://www.slimdevices.com/), and it works great at the first task, but only moderately well at the second. There's a new company called Sonos (http://www.sonos.com/) that just released their product which does both very well.

    I had a chance to beta-test the product and it really is as good as described. It's Linux-based, but not open-source. It utilizes a proprietary mesh-network running on top of 802.11g and it worked flawlessly in my three zone setup. All three zones could play high-bitrate audio in perfect sync with no drops.

    The downside is that it is fairly expensive. If you don't need sync'd audio, I might go with a cheaper option. But if you do, I've yet to find anything that can top Sonos.

    1. Re:Wireless audio distribution by thnmnt · · Score: 2, Informative

      i have 2 wireless squeezeboxes and a wired squeezebox which i serve using slimserver (open source) on an old pIII linux box with 512 mb RAM. they all sync perfectly. the trick is getting your wirelss network up to snuff. since the squeezeboxes are wireless B i have a totally seperate wireless B network so they don't slow down my wireless G devices. i've also heard that people get even better bandwidth by buying a wired squeezebox and connecting it to a wireless G bridge.

      sonos is not fairly expensive. it's *absurdly* expensive. a 3 room setup will cost almost $2000 and you need to buy speakers. you can't even connect it to your stereo via digital out (it doesn't have one).

      the sonos remote is sweet. but i can control my squeezeboxes using a similar device known as a wireless PDA. for the price of their remote i have easy and visual access to my music + it will do other things as well (surf the web anyone?)

      add to that slimdevices open source policy and i have a host of amazing plugins to choose from - more being added daily.

      --
      Go read some bible: nubible.com
    2. Re:Wireless audio distribution by revans · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The amazingly stupid thing about Sonos is their marketing folks don't scream this time-base synchronization feature. This thread shows how important it is. I've been looking for a multi-zone digital playback system for years and this is the first one I've found. To me it is the ONE thing that makes them stand out. Well, that, and their cool iPod-like remote control.

  16. FM Transmitter by neilb78 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Get the RoadTrip FM transmitter from Griffin(i have one; work's great). It's for your car, but the FM transmitter detaches and connects to your PC, too. Connect it to your PC and start the music. Use cheap FM stereo's throughout your home.

    http://www.griffintechnology.com/products/roadtr ip /

    --
    © 2004 The SCO Group, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
    1. Re:FM Transmitter by Rebar · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Parent is modded funny, but this is a very reasonable solution; that's what I do at my house and it works fantastically.

      You can get a nice little PLL FM transmitter from ccrane.com for around US$70.
      With the addition of an antenna wire that is about 6 feet long on the transmitter, I get hiss-free FM stereo that sounds certainly good enough for me, in every room of my house and out in the shop. I've ripped every CD I own and put that on "shuffle" from the main PC, and have either nice stereos (living room and shop) or rinky jam-box radios (bathrooms) about everywhere I can expect to be. Two NI-MH batteries will last for at least a couple days in the thing, or you can use the wall-wort and not mess with transmitter batteries at all.

      Implementation notes: (1) PLL synthesized FM is important; don't get a kit without it or your transmitter frequency will drift and your digitally-tuned receivers will get fuzz. (2): There are about 15 radio stations in my local market but I'm several miles out; YMMV if you are in a crowded market with no blank spaces on the FM dial. (3) When you are tired of your digital audio collection, you can always listen to the radio :)

  17. Did this. by clinko · · Score: 2, Informative

    I did this same thing a few years back in a dorm.

    I had a server in a closet, multiple machines playing at the same time.

    The problem ends up being where you want to put the power (as in Receivers/Speakers.)

    Unless you want really bad sound quality, and buy lots of speakers... Anything wireless, laptops, pcs, especially speakers, need a power oulet.

    Long story short: You're limited by receivers and power outlets not wires. Continuing to try to be wireless is pointless.

    Just run the wires through the a/c vents & put the speakers in the vents. It will still sound better and require less work than a wireless setup. Plus..., no visible wires...

    -JT

    1. Re:Did this. by cajunfj40 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      JT has good points, but I'd like to comment on this snippet:

      "Just run the wires through the a/c vents & put the speakers in the vents. It will still sound better and require less work than a wireless setup. Plus..., no visible wires..."

      If you go this route, please use the appropriate "plenum rated" cables for anything you run through ductwork. Cable that is rated for plenum use has insulation that burns slowly and emits little smoke - important in case of fire. Better safe than cheap. Not to mention the possibility of an insurance adjuster denying a claim if said cheap cable contributed to any otherwise covered losses...

      As for the speakers in the vents, I'm not so keen on that idea from both a safety standpoint (not sure if they make "plenum rated" speakers...) and from the standpoint that they'll block airflow.

      Otherwise, have fun!
      -cajun

  18. Re:Monster Cable by futuresheep · · Score: 5, Informative
    Here comes the flame war about cabling, but you'll get the same sound quality by wiring your house with lamp cord as you will with Monster Cable. Monster is an outstanding marketing machine. The product are good quality, but the bang for buck ratio is pretty bad.

    If you don't want to belive me, and since I'm just some schmo on the internet you shouldn't, do a search on Monster Cable at either of these websites, and read the consensus opinions.

    Avs Forum
    HDTVoice

    If you're looking for high quality cables at an excellent price, try Bluejeans Cable

  19. Beware of latency by weopenlatest · · Score: 2, Informative

    I had similar aspirations for a central sound server, but found that the latency issue can be hard to get by. If you want to use wireless, you're going to have to have independent decoding at each wireless access point. Problem is, each device is going to decode at it's own slightly different rate. The result is speakers in adjacent rooms that are a millisecond or two off. If you happen to be standing where you can hear both sets of speakers, the sound is going to be pretty nasty. Its difficult to get around this any way other than having the wires all come from the same box.

  20. My Home-Grown System by SlipJig · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wrote a little Java app (actually three apps) that allow me to stream audio over the network. The cool part (well, I think it's cool, anyway) is that it's in three pieces: a server, player, and controller. The server serves the files, the player plays it out to audio, and the controller (you guessed it) lets you set up playlists and jobs from a central location (there's little point in streaming audio to another room if you have to walk there to start it up). You can play multiple jobs to different rooms at the same time.

    My wife uses this to stream music (in ogg and mp3 format) from my server downstairs to a Linux box in the living room I built for this purpose. She controls it from a GUI on a Windows box on the kitchen counter. I've tested it over wireless and it works fine.

    I was thinking of putting this up on SourceForge - if anyone's interested let me know (msimpson at abel solutions dot com).

    --
    Read my keyboard review.
  21. Consider wiring by bubba451 · · Score: 2, Informative
    In my home, we use a combination of a Squeezebox in the Living Room and an Airport Express in the Office.

    It has its issues, but the Squeezebox works well in the Living Room because it's unobtrusive and self-contained: you don't need a computer or a TV to control it. In the Office, the Airport Express is perfect because it can be controlled by any computer in the room, and being an office, there are plenty of them.

    The biggest downfall, actually, is the wireless. Wireless just isn't as reliable as wired. Once every few weeks, I'll find that one of my base stations needs to be power cycled. Sometimes all of them do. And this is something that's a pain for my wife, who just wants to listen to music.

    The problem is worse in the Living Room, which is close to the kitchen, which contains the microwave. As you know, microwaves interfere with 802.11. That's not a big deal when you're surfing the web, but it sucks to have your music drop everytime you make a bag of popcorn.

    This problem is only going to get worse when sharing movies starts becoming possible. Ethernet totally has the bandwidth for this. Wireless does not.

    It's a pain, for sure, but now's the best time to do it.

  22. Mac Mini & AirPort Express with AirTunes by ad0le · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Ok, this is a "NO BRAINER".... get a Mac Mini ($499), and a AirPort Express with AirTunes ($129) for each room youd like to have music streamed to. If you dont want wires, then purchase seperate wireless audio speakers (5.1 ch wireless audio packages can be had for $199). So, $330 per room as clients with a $500 server. Did I mention is looks great too.

    --
    My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-bitch.
  23. Don't listen to people who don't know audio! by lcsjk · · Score: 2, Informative

    Do some research. There is no reason that wireless cannot transmit sound as well or better than wires. (After all, look at the wireless microphones used on all sound stages.) There have been transmitters to send audio from the sound system to remote speakers for years. Even go visit Radio Shack, check with Bose, or take a look at the audio magazines. Are you an audiophile? If so, be aware that each room will have different characteristics, even with the same speakers, and we still have to deal with that "sweet" zone. Large wire cables are indeed best for the connection from the amplifier to the speakers, but only because low speaker impedance requires a lot of current for any power levels. (Power=I^2*R, where I is current and R is the speaker impedance in ohms) Also large wires reduce the inductance which can cause some delay for the highest frequencies, but unlikely that you will hear it. I expect that the computers can provide you with what you need, but again, remember that the computer systems require amplified speakers.

    1. Re:Don't listen to people who don't know audio! by hackstraw · · Score: 2, Informative

      Also large wires reduce the inductance which can cause some delay for the highest frequencies, but unlikely that you will hear it.

      Another inductance tidbit. NEVER coil up extra wire in a circle. That is basically an inductor which will act like a high pass filter and can kill your bass. If you have extra wire to play with, wrap it back and forth in an S pattern.

      I've never heard about delay in high frequencies, but lower gauge wire is definitely a plus for longer cable runs.

    2. Re:Don't listen to people who don't know audio! by lcsjk · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Although they could use wireless mics, I think you will find that the recording studios have a much better reason to use wires. When you are 20 feet from the pre-amp, there is no need to have a seperate transmitter-receiver for multiple mics. The main reason the studios do not use wireless is that the extra audio stages can be avoided and that means that the amplifier only needs to handle 20Hz to 20kHz. Everytime the audio has to go through an audio stage the bandpass is reduced. For instance, if each stage (one in transmitter, one in receiver) has a bandwidth of 20-20kHz (-3db) the result will be a 20-20kHz with -6db. Assuming the standard -6db/octave (its not), this would put the -3db frequency range as 40Hz to 10khz, not a very good system. One other reason for wires is the shielding from the surrounding equipment.
      The advantage of wireless is that you can transmit a digital signal to a remote location where wires are difficult to run, and then D/A the signal back to a very good, but not perfect audio. Unfortunatly, you cannot get away from the problem with multi-audio stages when digital is used;A/D and D/A.

  24. Re:Slimp3 by chiphart · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You can definitely do cheaper than a slimserver (though mine is on its way).

    The
    NetGear MP101 can be had for ~$75 after rebate at your local Big Box Electronics Store. Note, though, that the experiences with this product range from miserable to acceptable, largely because of weak wireless capability (it works for some, not others) and a flaky server software package.

    The slim, on the other hand, has a fairly amazing open package with some awesome plugins developed by the community. The downside, though, is that it's not compatible with UPnP (which the MP101 is), making alternative servers, like Twonkyvision
    useless.

    Why am I switching to the slim, even with the higher price (3x)? Two reasons: first, the open server software - perl based! - means that I'll get features I really dig and not get stuck without answers. Second, the MP101 can only really do radio streams if you pay a one time? $20 fee OR monkey around considerably. While the service is pretty nice during the trial period, I'd prefer to not pay for something I can do for free.

    --

    ...if I wanted to read garbage like that, I'd go to \.
  25. MythTV by Mike+Miller · · Score: 4, Informative
    While the entire app is a bit overkill, using mythtv would be a reasonable solution. For just Music, you would need to run a backend server with the music and NFS and then just install the clients on your laptops. There's also a Knoppix distro for it - http://mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html

    There are several websites on converting laptops into "picture frames" http://www.likelysoft.com/hacks/pictureframes.shtm l, http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/12/27/023922 2&tid=222&tid=1, http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channel 9.JunktopRevival Which you could modify slightly to add built in powered speakers and hang one in each room.

    - Mike

  26. Buy a walkman by delmoi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Honestly, you'd rather have a bunch of ugly, old computer equipment sitting around (and plugged into the wall no less) in every room in your house then put in wireing? Are you planning on buying high-fidelity amps and good speakers for every room too?

    As much as I hate apple, just buy an Ipod and cary it around with you if you can't stand to be stuck in just one room listening to music.

    --

    ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
  27. Cool analog solutions by ScentCone · · Score: 2, Funny

    Learn to sing. If bandwidth is a problem, hum or whistle. All three formats go with you from room to room, and the hands-free interface is amazingly intuitive.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  28. Use Slimserver and Softsqueeze by ZedmanAuk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Install Slimserver (http://www.slimdevices.com/index.html) on a central server with all your music. Put a P3 laptop (or some other machine) with wireless in every room you will want music. Run SoftSqueeze (http://softsqueeze.sourceforge.net/) on each client, connecting to the server. Get a PDA with wireless and use Slimserver's built-in handheld skin to control your music.

    Done!

    --
    -ZA
  29. FM Transmitter by gozar · · Score: 2, Informative
    In this Slashdot article there are listed several ideas for FM transmitters. After reading that article, I am think of setting it up in my house with iTunes.

    Pros:

    • Easy to listen to your songs anywhere.
    • Can use a cheap fm radio/headphone when I'm out mowing the yard, working on the house, etc.

    Cons:

    • Everyone is stuck listening to the same thing (unless you setup multiple sound cards/transmitters)
    • Have to use some sort of remote control software (VNC) to control what is being played.
    --
    What, me worry?
  30. Really simple, here's how: by cypherz · · Score: 4, Informative

    If you have a network, and a stack 'o PIII's then you have what you need. It doesn't really matter what kind of network, as long as everything connects via TCP and has enough bandwidth for your needs.
    Setup a linux server, with enough disk space for your media collection and whatever else you want to store there. Install gnumpd3 from
    here: http://www.gnu.org/software/gnump3d/
    Install a desktop linux distro on the machines in each room. Aim a web browser from any machine at the URL of the gnump3d server and viola! you have music from your collection on demand in any room!
    Streaming radio style music is easy as well. Install icecast from here:http://www.icecast.org/
    and aim the xmms player from here: http://www.xmms.org/ and you have streaming media! woohoo!
    If you want to control a distribution system that plays the same songs things get more complicated, you'll need Apple computer's RTSP server and some client software to get everything sync'd throughout the house.
    I use secure shell from my zaurus wireless pda and mpg123 and aumix to operate this from a pocket sized device. For everything else I just browse the music library with gnump3d's web interface. FWIW, I use SuSE linux. It came with all the above except for the Darwin Stream Server (or whatever it is that Apple calls it these days). I had to download and compile the icecast source, but what the heck, it wasn't to hard to do either.

    HTH

    --
    This sig kills fascists.
  31. Squeezebox by stephandahl · · Score: 2, Informative
    The Slim Devices Squeezebox works great for me.


    Buy a box for each room that needs music, add any old (active) speakers (or a hifi amp), and you're good to go.


    It comes with (Free & Open GPL :-) server software; It's perl, and modifiable to do all sorts of interesting things with the players. Slim Devices had a developer contest where you can see what people thought up. You can download the software and try it out before you decide to get the box - it can stream to XMMS or WinAMP just as easily as to a Squeezebox.


    Each box comes with a remote, and they can all be controlled through a web GUI as well.


    They come in both wired and wireless variants; The wired ones cost $200, The wireless ones are somewhat more expensive at $280.


    The nice thing about them is that all the smarts are in the server - the squeezebox is basically just a network adapter, an MP3 decoder, and a soundcard (with a nice bright display and a remote IR receiver, of course). It will (knock on wood) last as long as I don't drop it on the floor, and I won't need to buy new devices next time the industry switches media again :-)


    Multiple squeezeboxes can be synchronized to play the same stream; You can't sync a software player and a squeezebox, though (no buffering control over the SW player, i guess).


    No Disclaimer: I'm not affiliated with Slim Devices in any way; I just love their product :-)

    --
    What is the difference between a real song and a simulated song?
  32. SQEEZEBOX!!! by papageorgio02 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Store all your music on a server somewhere. Set up multiple clients around the house connected to local stereo. Stream music to all of them in-synch or different songs to different players.
    I have the older wired SPLIMP3 and I love it.
    It is a lot easier than listening through the computer.
    The SqueezeBox is wireless and has digital output on it. Plus the server is all open, so you can help contribute if you want!
    www.slimdevices.com

    --
    -- I stole your sig!
  33. Sonos by Issue9mm · · Score: 2, Informative

    This is probably too late a response to get noticed, but having just put a contract on a new house as well (as of today actually), my mind went to similar directions.

    After quite a bit of googling, I've found that Sonos (http://www.sonos.com) has a really nice setup. It's not Linux-friendly, but if you're a Windows household, or can have an old Windows box lying around, it'll be great for you.

    The basic setup is as follows: You can have up to 32 base stations, which act as both input and output. Plug a base station into your PC and install the software, and voila, it will now interface with the remote. The base stations communicate with each other wirelessly, acting as repeaters, or a wireless mesh, if you prefer.

    You can have multiple sources (with multiple base stations, that is), but I don't know whether or not it is available to the other base stations if it isn't coming through the PC (and through their software), so you'll likely want to check into that.

    All in all tho, while it is a little pricy, does involve zero wiring (except power, and ethernet if you don't have wireless), and the cost of putting together a 5-6 room thing with 4 remotes is still cheaper to put together a decent quality multi-zone whole house audio system.

    -9mm-

  34. FM Transmitter by DrinkDr.Pepper · · Score: 3, Funny

    Instead of trying to use 802.11g and multiple computers, why not just buy your own FM radio station and put a radio in each room?

    --
    0xfeedface
  35. Pipe it with EMT for most convenience by swb · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If you could afford it, it'd be best to run big diameter EMT from your hub location to your satellite locations. It's much easier to fish through, and even if it gets hard to fish a single new line through you can always empty and re-pull everything at once if you have to.

    In an ideal world the house would have been planned for this to begin with and a wiring plenum would have run been established between all the floors (a riser plenum) and there would be a cross-shaped plenum in each and every room, as well as a plenum connecting all the rooms. With a few access panels here and there, you can go from any room to any room without a lot of painful, finished-wall fishing.

    There's a commercial building accross the street that has a 3" raised floor encompassing every square foot of every floor of the building. Now that's what I call planning ahead.

  36. It's about the delivery stream continuity by lullabud · · Score: 2

    Clearly digital is digital when you're looking at the data and hence the sound quality will be identical regardless of wether you use a different network link for delivery. I think the questionable aspect is the continuity of the delivery those 1's and 0's. Anybody who frequently uses wireless knows that there can be lag problems due to RF interference or heavy traffic on the wireless network segment. Dropped and late packets causing pauses for rebuffering aren't going to sound great with high fidelity speakers, especially when turned up loud. Also, anybody who's used XP Zero config knows that it can be a fantastic source of frustration, and Windows would have to be the platform if iTunes is to be used on a PIII. XP Zero Config is easily enough bypassed if you dont' use XP or if you use the vendor-supplied management software, but I don't know for sure that those options would be any better. I say that if you're building a house, definitely use a switched ethernet network. If you're buying a house, definitely consider any possible way to install ethernet. The worst-case solution would be wireless, and in that case you might consider ad-hoc for your audio units since it relieves strain on your access points.

  37. Glod plated optical cables by LanMan04 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yeah, I think "GOLD PLATED CONNECTORS!!" on optical audio cables is all I have to say about Monster Cable. [shudder]

    --
    With the first link, the chain is forged.
  38. Re:reference please? by eggoeater · · Score: 2, Informative

    There are definitely different grades of copper....that is, there are different amounts of impurities that they mix in. However, when it comes to hooking up speakers, it just doesn't make a huge difference.

    Where cables DO make a difference is when you're hooking up line-level signals. i.e. the analog output of a CD player to your amp. The shielding of the cables is what makes the difference. And if the signal is coming from a turntable or microphone, it's REALLY important since those signals are boosted in the amp so much more. Even still, you're not going to notice much of a difference between RCA cables you buy at WalMart vs Circuit City. When it comes to hooking up digital outputs (DVD) to your Dolby Digital amp, it doesn't make a difference at all as long as you have a coax cable (with RCA ends) meant for digital use. For this, just get the WalMart version.

    The only time cables can make a difference is if they're gold plated which only really helps if EVERYTHING (plugs and jacks) are gold plated. Ask anyone who works in a recording studio and they say gold plating on everything can lower your total noise floor by 2db, which is significant for studios... probably wouldn't notice it in a house.

  39. Sync issues by SilentJ_PDX · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've tried everything to get the same sound in multiple rooms using wifi and I could never get it working.

    I have a smallish 1bdr flat and I like to have the same music playing in my bedroom, kitchen and bathroom as I roam through the flat in the morning (my neighbors must love me). I tried to stream mp3 from a central server but the laptops would all have a different buffer and the sound was out of sync in all three locations.

    My final solution was to use an FM transmitter. The upside is I can use cheap receivers in the kitchen and bathroom. The downside is poor sound quality in those locations (the bedroom is wired to the source).

  40. Re:Monster Cable by Webmoth · · Score: 2, Informative

    There's more to cabling than oxygen-free copper, pair twisting, and stranding/braiding. Most people seem to ignore insulation and installation ratings.

    If cable is installed inside a wall without conduit, it must be rated for in-wall use. Most lamp cord and extension cords are not, as well as your typical clear-jacket lamp-cord-style speaker cable. If installed in a plenum (air-handling space, typically the space above a false ceiling in your office building), then the insulation must be plenum rated. This means that in the event of a fire, the insulation a) does not support combustion, and b) meets standards for emissions in the event of a fire. If your cabling does not meet the standards for the particular installation, then you'll have to run it in conduit.

    In addition, most of your "Home Depot" cord and most audio cables are not rated for permanent installation. Usually, cable designed for permanent installation has individually insulated conductors and a durable outer jacket. (Rule of thumb: interconnects between equipment are considered temporary. If the wire runs thru a wall or is somehow fastened to a surface, then it's considered permanent.)

    Don't run your cables under a rug or carpet. This is dangerous: the slight bump in the carpet can be a tripping hazard, the carpet does NOT protect and in fact increases the wear on the cable, heat dissipation is hampered by the carpet, and the cable cannot be visually inspected for damage.

    Oh, and another thing about twisting pairs -- for speakers, twisting your pairs won't necessarily improve RF rejection (considering the amplitude of the signal), but will help prevent your speaker signals from inductively coupling to your other signal lines. That is, with parallel non-twisted cable, your speaker lines are not a magnet for interference, but rather are a source for it.

    --
    Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
  41. typo by commodoresloat · · Score: 2, Funny
    I heard the walkman is a pretty popular item.

    You misspelled "iPod."

  42. I've already got the low cos[tt] solution at home by eno2001 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Many of us already have some kind of a system to play music in digital form. iPods, Rios, hell even PCs with some kind of media player on them or... the venerable CD player. A while back I sat thinking about the best way to be able to listen to music throughout the house without needing to either:

    1. Run speaker wires to every room
    2. Cart the music playing system (I use a PC with XMMS on Linux) around the house
    3. Run network cables to each room I wanted to listen to music in
    4. Or just have a device in every room

    All of these seemed cost/time prohibitive. Then I got to thinking... What do I have in every room of the house that I could use to get music into the room without a lot of effort? It dawned on me: heating/cooling ducts. (If you have steam heat or baseboard heat, then my post doesn't apply to you) What I wound up doing was moving my music playing PC from the living room down to my basement (yeah mine. not my parent's) and putting a speaker transducer in the heater that connects to the main ducts. Then I set the volume high enough the the vibrations travel through the ducts to every room at a suitable volume.

    Pros:
    1. Wireless!!!
    2. Plays music!!!
    3. Answers silly Ask Slashdot question!!!

    Cons:
    1. Tinny sound at best
    2. Too loud when you are closer to the first floor
    3. Can't control what your listening to (I play in random+repeat mode)

    I'm pretty sure that the majority of you have ductwork in your house and could take advantage of this innovative approach to whole house wireless music distribution. Let me know what you think!

    --
    -"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
  43. Re:Monster Cable by peawee03 · · Score: 3, Informative

    feeds troll...

    Speaker wire is nothing more than fancy AC power cables, and with a good reason- analog audio is represented electrically as AC current. Nothing special, just simple AC. It's voltage and frequency vary considerably (voltage = volume, frequency = pitch), but it's just AC nonetheless. The only reason why it doesn't look like it is because most of the time there's a fancy connector on the end of it... or other times, just bare wire.

    The only reason why your dryer has thicker cable than your TV is due to the fact that the dryer pulls much more current than the TV, and to avoid literally melting your cables and starting a nice electrical fire the conductive material is thicker to carry the increased current. The same is true for speaker cables- the cable used on big, multi-kW PA systems is much bigger than the 1 W headphones you've got.

    As long as you don't do silly things like running audio parallel to power cables (tends to induce a 60 Hz hum into your audio) and make sure you cross all power cables @ 90 degree (or pi/2 radian) angles, you will get great performance with either Home Depot extension cords or Monster Cable speaker cable, because they are the exact same thing. Keyboard magazine ran an article a few years back on cable comparisons. The listening test, done with at least 10-15 people, showed no superior performer. The only way they could rank them is in how well they lasted (one of their tests: slam the cable in a pickup truck bed door 10 times and see if it still works).

    There is differences between different kinds of cable, but the differences are for signal types. Analog audio is AC, so AC cables work just *great*. For example, twisted pair ethernet uses a differential signal to avoid interference problems, more details can be found here. Check up on your stuff next time before trolling so hard.

    --
    I wish I could write clever and witty sigs.
  44. Been there, done that, use cat 5 by Beatlebum · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I have installed a home network in our home (2700 square foot, 7 rooms). Here's the bottom line- wireless is unreliable and slow, you'll need plenty of repeaters to make it semi reliable. After trying different base stations, repeaters and cards I gave up and pulled cable. It was a hassle but I now have an extremely reliable gigabit LAN. Audio is streamed from a rackmount system in the garage to Audiotrons in the various rooms and video is streamed to a PC with an xcard in the living room. The video streaming was a semi-custom solution, I can play ripped DVD's in full quality mpreg2 over the network. Watching a DVD involves a menu click using the xcard remote control, the DVD starts playing almost instantaneously.

    Wireless is great for certain applications, but if you own your home I would go with a gigabit copper LAN. It's cheap and it works even when your neighbor is microwaving a burrito.

  45. Re:And if you can solder something, do it. by eggoeater · · Score: 2, Informative

    Solder DOES increase conductivity and you can solder wire to a speaker but you have to be VERY careful. I never solder wire to a speaker for two reasons....

    1. Speakers can blow. If you need to swap a speaker out, using quick connects works a lot better. I use to run a sound company and sometimes we'd have to swap speakers out in the middle of a gig.

    2. Soldering irons are hot! The voice coil of a speaker can easily be damaged (or it's life-time shortened) due to the heat. Especially high frequency drivers...never solder dome tweeters!

  46. Just did that by macdaddy · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I just wired my folks' new home this past weekend for voice, data and TV and I have lots to say on this topic. They don't want a sound, intercomm or security system but I would highly recommend considering them. A note on security systems later...

    I did the electrical wiring in the house. If you do it yourself or if you hire it done, believe me when I tell you that you have to put in the extra time to do a neat, clean job. Runs should have square corners. Multiple runs should follow the same path(s) back to the panel. This allows you to route your voice/data/TV cables and conduit away from runs of romex or at the very least cross them once on the way to the closet. Yes you have to staple the wires up every 4'. Plan ahead and use 3m Stack-It clips. Yes you have to have a dedicated circuit for your entertainment center and primary computer installation(s). All this means you'll spend extra in wire but it won't cost you that much more (under $50, easy. 1000' of 12/2 is $127 @ Lowes). The contractors will hate you for it but 1) some of it is code, like the part about stapling up wire runs), and 2) they work for you. Tell them to deal with it. I was in a friend's basement early last Fall. The house he lived in was built new a year or two earlier. The 1st floor trusses were an absolute cluster-fuck of wiring. You could trace a wire through that mess if you life depended on it. It seriously looked like one of those pictures I know you've reached from some buddy that shows a telephone pole in some 3rd-world country that has a couple thousand various strands of wire pulled off of it, running every which way. A cluster fuck. There was no way he could route his voice and data runs through that mess without succumbing to the interference. Clean, neat, professional (better than the average professional!) runs are a must. Now, back on topic.

    I ran Carlon (Lamson Home Products) 3/4" ENT (Electrical Nonmetallic Tubing) flex tube from most boxes back to the accessible side of the basement. It's too expensive to buy well over 1500' of conduit for each and every cable drop. In all honesty you don't have to run conduit to drops that will probably never updated wiring. The drop in your kitchen wall for the family telephone is a good example. Ideally you would run it everywhere but realistically it's not worth the expense. In some cases actually running PVC water lines is cheaper (not to get into a discussion about plenums, PVC, fire, and toxic fumes).

    I also used Carlon's low-voltage gang boxes for all the cable drops. They have a knockout in the top and bottom to allow to quick and easy connections to the flex tube with a Carlon Terminal Adapter and an appropriately sized knockout nut (not supplied).

    I highly recommend not going with flexible conduit that's any smaller than 3/4" if you expect to pull more than 3 wires (Cat5, RG6, whatever). I pulled 3 x Cat5 and 2 x RG6 lines through 3/4" flex tube but it was a tight fit. 6 would have been very tight. 7 wouldn't have fit. Ideally you would run 1" to all major drops with more than 5 wires, 3/4" to all drops with 3 or 4 wires, and I suppose 1/2" to anything with fewer wires (but only if you got an extremely good deal on it). It's worth noting that the Carlon gang-boxes do not have a 1/2" knockout. The boxes come pre-cut to 3/4".

    A good fish tape and some Gardner Bender Wire-Aide(tm) pulling lube is an absolute must (I think that's what I'm using currently). Don't even think about attempting this without both of those items. Depe

  47. Yet Another Linux Jukebox by Sooner+Boomer · · Score: 2, Informative

    I had a similar project. I built a media server from scrounged parts (533 Celeron mb, scrounged ps, built my own aluminum chassis and hard drive shock mount, etc.) Server software is Debian Sarge, including Glirnath and gnump3d. All the CDs were ripped onto their own partition on the hard drive (Lame-based encoder) The server is hooked up to the A/V unit and the TV in the living room. Using the web-based interface in Glirnath, I can play music on the main stereo. Using gnump3d I can play music at a local console (desktop or laptop). Since both software packages use a web interface, the "client" machine can be any machine with a browser.

    --
    Chaos maximizes locally around me.
  48. Google it. by Molochi · · Score: 2, Informative

    An A/B/X test is a type of blind test used to impartialy show a statistical preference for A, B or Undetermined. The X sample is A or B (random) and is just used to determine the number of surveyed test subjects that could/couldn't tell the difference between A and B.

    --
    "The Adobe Updater must update itself before it can check for updates. Would you like to update the Adobe Updater now?"