Slashdot Mirror
North Korea Admits to Having Nuclear Weapons
steelvadi writes "North Korea has now admitted to possessing nuclear weapons. Government officials there claimed that they are needed as defense from an increasingly hostile attitude from Washington. It was also stated that N. Korea will not be reentering negotiations on disarmament for the foreseeable future. "
Replace "admits" with "brags" and then further replace "brags" with "bluffs" and then it might be a little more true.
This is obviously a serious matter, but we should not believe anything that Kim Jong Il says without adequate proof.
I'm a big tall mofo.
This is par for the course with North Korea. 1. Make ridiculous, aggressive statements in the media. 2. Pull out of talks. 3. Demand concessions. 4. Get concessions. 5. Restart talks. 6. Repeat. yawn. nothing to see here.
so the huge explosion in NK (previously on slashdot somewhere)was a neuclear test or what?
Freedom or George Bush
I'm sure there will be a lot of jokes about WMDs etc but this is a clear and present danger. North Korea, as displayed by their current actions, is unpredictable. While many will say it's common knowledge that North Korea had nuclear weapons, this is a big deal in that they admitted it.
What's even more frightening is that they're not willing to talk about it. The 6 party talks only resumed a few weeks ago I believe. This can't be a good thing that they've stop talks.
My nervous level has moved up to Red (sorry had to end with a joke).
-Teiresias
I guess Bill Clinton shouldn't of trusted Kim Jong II when he said "Give me nuclear material and I promise not ot make nukes". See how well that turned out? Sending Carter over there didn't help things either, not that it would, Carter hasn't met a dictator he didn't love.
Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
Rice says: "The North Koreans have no reason to believe that anyone wants to attack them. They have been told they can have multilateral security assurances if they will make the important decision to give up their nuclear weapons program. So there is really no reason for this, but we will examine where we go next."
Assurances, huh? Ever think for a minute that maybe North Korea has no reason to believe anything the Bush administration says? Maybe if Bush builds up some goodwill and trust then the North would be willing to resume negotiations. You don't negotiate with someone you think is lying to you.
The global economy is a great thing until you feel it locally.
North Korea:
Dictator: Check
Oppressed people: Check
No legitimate elections: Check
WMDs: Check
Threatening to the West: Check
Send in the troops! What's that? We're going to use diplomacy instead? We're going to try to avoid tens of thousands of deaths and injured? Wow, good thinking. Too bad about that other country...
Government officials there claimed that they are needed as defense from an increasingly hostile attitude from Washington But did they start making the nuclear weapons only after Washington started turning hostile?
...if you were surprised by this admission. Anyone?
*crickets*
Thought not. See, North Korea is a real threat. Probably why Bush is ignoring it. Unlike those massive armed-to-the-teeth maniacs hoarding nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons in Iraq. Good thing we went in there. Seems like every man, woman, and child there had a shoulder mounted nuclear missile launcher.
-- The reason it's called the right wing? Irony.
We don't worry about the N. Korea nukes: CNN has
this morning already moved to a more relevant story:
"Prince Charles to marry Camilla Parker Bowles".
"The North also **repeated** a claim to have built nuclear weapons for self-defence."
2 52 481.stm
6 04 437.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4
Also:
"28 September: North Korea says it has turned plutonium from 8,000 spent fuel rods into nuclear weapons. Speaking at the UN General Assembly, Vice Foreign Minister Choe Su-hon said the weapons were needed for "self-defence" against "US nuclear threat". "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2
This is just a repetition of a bargaining trick they've used before, do not listen to them.
They want us to be afraid of them as much as our leaders do....
Joseph Farthing
http://josephfarthing.com
So what if he's dead, killed in that explosion, and they've been covering it up? NK is exactly the kind of place to try to do something like that.
Just a thought....
Send in "Team America" http://www.teamamerica.com/
This is nonsense.
Why does it force anyone to not be stupid? Surely you're not talking about MAD, which is not only a grotesque oversimplification of the nuclear strategy pursued during the cold war, but also becomes exponentially less stable a game with each new player at the table.
Let's say a nuclear bomb explodes in Haifa or Tel Aviv tomorrow.
Who do you retaliate against? With only two nuclear powers, it's a relatively easy choice to decide who was responsible.
What about with three? Four? Seven? Some of whom are demonstrably unstable and hostile states?
The concern isn't that North Korea will do something "stupid" with their bombs in an obvious and overt fashion. The concern is that North Korea will do something with their bombs by proxy, or in an attempt to implicate a third party.
It forces all sides to not be stupid.
You'd think the mass starvation of your own citizenry would force a national leader to not be stupid, but that hasn't stopped Kim. Why do you think nukes which can spread that same level of suffering outside his own borders will?
not to mention the US actually failed to live up to the previous agreement:
...many years later...
Korea - we want to develop nuclear power
USA - we'll help you with technology for nuclear power so you don't need to develop it yourself
Korea - er, hello. where's our help?
USA - fuck you
Korea - fuck you too then
...South Park creators, Matt Stone and Trey Parker, have been moved to an "undisclosed location."
sig not found
Same thing with Iran. I'm hoping they get nukes within a few years.
Why? Because people with nukes don't do stupid things (excluding the U.S. of course).
I've been saying this for a long time. Despite what the neocons would have you believe having nukes is a great way to make a country get its act together.
Right. Like Pakistan. Because they've been so responsible at handling their nuclear material. Why should we worry, since Kim Jong Il is so stable?
As the destructive power available to individuals grows through technological advancement, it's an open question whether civilization is long-term stable. A few thousand years ago, one person could, at most, kill tens of others before being killed themselves. Civilization (such as it was) was stable. Now imagine giving everyone on earth a button that would wipe out all life on the planet. How long do you think we'd last? We're somewhere between these two extremes right now. Do you really think demonstrably insane people having nuclear weapons is a good thing?
Perhaps it isn't actually Mutually Assured Destruction, but you have to admit, pointing those nukes at Seoul and Tokyo and then saying "Hey US, stay the F**K out of my country or I push the button!" could be rather persuasive.
I can't say I agree with the proliferation of nuclear weapons, but perhaps it will keep the US from invading another country.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
But as long as we're talking about stupid presidents, how about Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter giving them the freaking reactors?
As far the "We need more North Koreas!" contingent here is concerned, by the way -- if you think a totalitarian hellhole with rampant starvation and the threat of incineration of South Korea is a net win as long as they're somehow sticking it to the US -- well, you're entitled to your view but I'm entitled to find it loathsome.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
He believes God will magic everything ok, and that he should actively pursue an end of days scenerio so he can speed up The Rapture. Sadly, he has Santa and Jesus confused.
That is stupid. It is very very stupid. It is the concious choice to deny the world as God would have it, and currently keeps it. It is the improbable hubris of super-villians. Which is why I seriously think he should have considered replacing Rocky Squirrle with at least one five yearold.
This North Korea is the true seed of the Bush administration. The harvest will be nuclear proliferation throughout asia. And it's all his fault because he surrounded himself with idiots, first amoung them Condelezza Rice. That a person with her position and credentials can know so little about Asia is a testiment to the all-powerful nature of the social network.
North Korea got its nuclear technology from China and Russia. The proliferation-resistant pressurized water reactors (primarily financed and built by S. Korea) which were part of the Clinton deal are not even partially completed.
Sustainability and energy independence essay
We can thank Bill Clinton for this. Bill's policy was "Oh stop development and we will give you money." And of course N. Korea said "Ok Bill- thanks for the cash" ... and later ... "Hey you bomb guys said you needed more money to continue tinkering? Well we have some new funds for you". Everybody knew the treaty Bill made with N. Koreans was only good for wiping ones ass. Type "Clinton Korea" into google and you can read about it yourself. The first link gives a "pro Clinton" view (emphesising how complicated the issue was and how Clinton was really ellected to be a domestic hero) while many other links say "how stupid". The reason I will not give any specific links is because I believe that this is a case where the reader should do thier own research.
I miss the Karma Whores.
It's been known, or at least very strongly suspected, that North Korea has had a nuclear weapons programme for 10 years. In terms of their position of strength against SK "admission" makes very little difference.
The US government's standard line is that countries must permit inspection and monitoring and 'come clean' about their weapons. Iraq's failure to do so was the legal justification for the US invasion.
It may be that in admitting that they have a programme North Korea is aiming to be recognised as a state making moves to defend itself, rather than a danger to international security.
There appears to be a movement to reduce the personality cult and begin to behave as a less totalitarian regime, although probably still a hereditary dictatorship, this may be evidence thereof.
"Sweet lil' N. Korea" had nukes before we went into Iraq, they have only just acknowledged it now. That was the problem. At least with Iraq we don't have to worry about them developing anymore. You can thank all the BS appeasement talks in the 90s (a la President Carter) for allowing this situation to develope.
Now we are forced to only talk for fear that they will use the nukes, and hope our own nukes and risk of invasion is a good enough deterrent (as it was in the Cold War). At least with Iran we still have a chance to keep them from finishing the work. We can't make the same mistake twice.
An excerpt from Joe Vialls : Russia Proves 'Peak Oil' is a Misleading Zionist Scam
... intelligence reports that the Russians have already moved three deep-drilling rigs into impoverished North Korea, where they intend to repeat the Vietnamese production cycle by drilling thought solid granite and basalt, with not a single trace of the 'decaying marine life' so essential to blinkered western geologists for the 'accepted' production of crude oil. It may take a while, but ultimately the North Koreans will be able to go about their sovereign business without the Zionist Cabal in New York being able to blackmail them over a few ship loads of food-aid rice. Yes indeed, Korea will eventually have an oil surplus of its own, allowing it to tell the latest in a long line of terminally insane "New World Orders" to go to hell."
"After more than 60 years of being enslaved, pillaged, and raped by the French and then by the Americans, the poor Vietnamese were told officially by American oil multinationals that their country was barren; that western 'cutting edge' technology had failed to find anything to help them recover financially from the mess left behind by American bombs, Agent Orange, and a host of other delightful gifts from Uncle Sam. This of course was exactly where America wanted the Vietnamese to be: desperately poor and unable to take action against their former invaders.
The Russians had other ideas and a very different approach. After telling the Vietnamese that the Americans had lied to them, oil experts were flown in from Moscow to prove this startling claim in a no-risk joint venture, meaning the Russians would provide all of the equipment and expertise free of charge, and only then take a percentage of the profits if oil was actually found and put into production. Vietnam had absolutely nothing to lose, and swiftly gave Russia the green light.
The Vietnamese White Tiger oil field was and is a raging success, currently producing high quality crude oil from basalt rock more than 17,000 feet below the surface of the earth, at 6,000 barrels per day per well. Through White Tiger, the Russians have assisted the Vietnamese to regain part of their self respect, while at the same time making them far less dependent on brutal western nations for food-aid handouts.
All of a sudden in a very small way, Vietnam has joined the exclusive club of oil producing nations, and a stream of cynical U.S. Senators and Congressmen have started making the long pilgrimage to Ho Chi Minh City in order to 'mend fences'. Predictably perhaps, the Vietnamese are very cool, and try hard to ignore their new American admirers.
Welcome to the White Tiger oil field in Vietnam. Observe the truly amazing oil flares, in an area the Americans officially declared 'barren' of oil reserves !
It is truly amazing how quickly good news travels [outside of CNN], and in a very short space of time China was also engaged in a joint super deep venture with Russia. Nor did it end there.
According to the text of their statement, reported on the BBC, they listened to Bush's Coronation, er, Inaugural speech, and his State of the Union, and what adminitstration officials are saying to Congress, and concluded that Bush wants to overthrow the regime.
Why on *earth* would they be afraid that the US might bomb them, or even invade them? I just *can't* Iraq, er, imagine why they'd think this of the US.
So, who here is enlisting so that they can fight in a nuclear war agasist North Korea, which of course will result in a few casualties...like fallout all over the west coast of the US and Canada? Who here, that's in the US, is offering to pay more taxes for this?
Right, just as I thought.
mark
You know...I just have a hard time buying that one. I certainly have NOT seen my fuel bills going down due to the 'glut' of Iraqi oil we've grabbed so far...
In fact...prices seem to still be going up....
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Let's see a test, otherwise NK is just blustering.
What the F*** are you talking about?
America doesn't run penal labor colonies
America doesn't lock you and your whole family up because of what your father did before you were born.
America doesn't kill people who try to escape.
Look, you can make all the jokes you want, but North Korea is an Orwellian human rights nightmare. I'm not saying that bad things don't happen in America or worldwide at the behest of her corporations, but we make an effort to police ourselves. We try to be the good guys, and in North Korea they'll pop a cap in your a** for just looking like you're thinking the wrong thing.
PS: Sometimes swearing is necessary in response to extreme stupidity.
The world will not get better through technology. We must seek to be better people.
No, they were actually on a live camera, not producing weapons. When Bush came in, they took down the camera, and move forwards to weapons production. That was the time for Bush to threaten to bomb them, but instead he waited until some Saudis based in Afghanistan bombed us, then bombed Afghanistan (good idea), and invaded Iraq instead of dealing with N Korea. The process has been long towards a N Korean bomb, but the it is Bush who blew the peace, and a legitimate war - in favor of an illegitimate one.
--
make install -not war
Yes, I remember it well. North Korea was having government-organized 'spontaneous' demonstrations against the growing threat posed by the U.S. Crowds of thousands would chant anti-US slogans. They even had a huge sign showing a US diplomat being crushed under the weight of a nuclear bomb. (You could see his blond hair and briefcase sticking out at the bottom!)
North Korea had admitted to having a nuclear weapons program, but not *publicly*. They simply informed the US of this fact, astounding US diplomats. When the media took off on this, the DPRK backtracked. Kim Jong II started making bizarre statements like: "We have no nuclear weapons. Our research is for energy-production only. Those who oppose us will be drowned in a sea of (nuclear) fire!"
They also made some claims about how their long-range missiles were capable of delivering a nuclear device into the US, which is, I think, the main reason we're developing an anti-missile shield. Test fired a few of them, just to show us.
And then, the US invaded Iraq. Something about weapons of mass destruction.
You must understand, the average North Korean believes that the US is about to invade at any instant. When they had that train-explosion last year, people thought, its finally happened, the US has dropped a nuclear bomb on us.
In North Korea, the government has total control over what people do and think. Its fairly common knowledge that they test chemical weapons on their own citizens, have massive concentration camps (death rate estimated at 10% per year), frequently drive the population to starvation under the 'military first' policy, imprison and kill dissidents without trial, etc, etc.
The latest insanity: All citizens must have one of 5 govenment approved haircuts. Growing long hair starves the brain of energy, and makes you stupid.
This stuff sounds incredible, but you can easily google to verify any of it.
This reminds me very much of an interview with a violent gang member, about 6 years ago. He claimed gang members had to have guns, to defend themselves against the police.
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
"Bush stopped the Clinton deal's funding and changed to a hard-line approach, and now we see ourselves in the present situation."
This sentence seems to try to establish a causal relationship between Washington politics and the development of nuclear weapons by the North Koreans. If we briefly examine the timeline we see contrary evidence: Koreans try to get nukes, we offer to do something, they still try to get nukes in spite of our intervention, we change tactics, they still try to get nukes in spite of our new tactics. It is obvious that they operated from day 1 with the intentions of having offensive nuclear capabilities and the actions that we took did nothing to deter them.
I will posit this: regardless of the position of Washington, China, or any government other than the North Koreans themselves, the North Koreans would have sought out and acquired offensive nuclear technology.
The world is rapidly approaching a time and place where nuclear weapons are not out of the reach of any country with the desire to posess them. I can even see individuals with great wealth and/or political power with their own personal arsenal. Those that acquire them will do so for their own reasons and motivations and efforts to stop them will most likely prove fruitless.
Sleep well...
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
Kim Jong Il sees one Korea. You only make areas you don't intend to use uninhabitable.
S. Korea has better weapons and technology, and a comparable army. They have a superior navy, and occasionally sink N. Korean military vessels that stray into their waters.
Nuclear missiles don't have to be aimed at land. The US parks a fleet near Japan, N. Korea could destroy it. North Korea could nuke US bases in Japan. North Korea could nuke Tokyo. They may have the capability to destroy the headquarters of the Pacific Fleet at Hawaii.
Also, there's a difference between an attacking force and a defending force. Defenders who are trained and armed tend to do more damage than a comparable force that is moving in to invade. This works in favor of both North and South Korea. South Korea doesn't have to worry as much about invasion. They can do more damage to the N. Koreans than can be done to them using conventional warfare tactics. It works for N. Korea because the only way to control them is with ground troops.
Well, because it's news for everyone (including nerds) and stuff that definitely matters..
Whenever the Americans stir up the terrorists, we wind up with fallout. In the case of North Korea, that'd be nuclear fallout.
I've heard from S. Korean friends that in N. Korea that no brids sing or chrip because most have been caught and used a food. The populace is in a continual status of near starvation, while nearly all food produced is diverted to keep the military fed.
To top it off, the place is run by a paranoid meglomaniac. Not a great place to live. -- TMK
"You don't believe Washington turned hostile in 2001, do you?"
Yes. We defined them as part of the Axis of Evil, and pledged their destruction. Jesus.
Why do you assume that the Bush administration, oil men all, want to bring down the price of oil?
It's about the control of the oil, not the price of it. I made the same mistake in thinking myself. I thought they'd flood the market with cheap oil and break the cartel pricing stucture, and save Bush's economic hide much as Reagan was saved by OPEC's crackup in the early '80's.
But it seems they have a bigger agenda, controling Asia/China's access to the petro they need, while reaping huge private awards in the oil industry. Bush is a faux-free marketer: he will not interfere in the price of oil. Flow of blood, no problem, flow of oil -- he's got a problem.
Put it this way: you're stuck in a jail cell with another prisoner who's acting erratically. Think Charles Manson. Is the best solution for you to have a gun, for you both to have guns, or for neither of you to have a gun?
That's a pretty interesting scenario. But what if Charles already has a gun, and you only have the parts to make the gun? I'm pretty sure you'd be secretly assembling it behind his back, and when completed, you'll tell him, "Look, don't be waving that gun in my face, 'cause I've got one too now, so back off!"
That's exactly how NK is feeling right now. And to their credit, NK hasn't done anything with their military outside their own borders unlike the US/British coalition.
Live forever, or die trying.
Um, afghanistan and iraq have degenerated into the 7th century. We boosted the holy warriors into power in Afghanistan in the eighties because the fought the Ruskies. We just kicked out a stable secular ruler in Iraq, which is being replaced by a Shiite theocracy, popularly elected.
So, basically, instead of having to rattle sabres with conventional arms to get food and infrastructure aid from the US, South Korea, Japan, and China, North Korea now has a nuclear saber to rattle and extort food and infrastructure aid from the same. Don't forget that Korea also has the No Dong missile (that is not a joke, No Dong means "long march" in Chinese, and is not a reference to asian phallic dimensions) that was developed with Chinese assistance. So now the sabre rattling isn't just a threat of regional instability, but one of direct first strike: A No Dong tipped with a small nuke can reach Alaska, South Korea, Northern Hokkaido, and parts of China.
Incidentally, Bush called out North Korea in his infamous Axis of Evil speech. It's worth pointing out that Pyongyang sold parts and expertise on the No Dong to Iran which has resulted in an Iranian long range missile capable of hitting large swaths of the middle east. While Iran is a bit more stable and diplomatically minded, do not underestimate the radical hard line elements in the Iranian government. And do not think for one second that Iran's recent rapid progress in nuclear arms development is all home grown; its no coincidence that their program is running slightly behind, if not parallel to, North Koreas.
With America's nuclear stockpiles aging and in need of redesign/refit, don't be surprised if the next decade sees an East/West nuclear arms race. If ever there was a time to push ballistic missile defense, now is it.
Bushy plan:
(1) Find a country that disagrees with you.
(2) Economically and politically sideline them, till it becomes a tough place to live for the citizens, and blame the govt
(3) Call them terrorists for owning ANY weapons (OMG! they have knives!!!)
(4) Lie to link them with some bomb that went off somewhere in USA regardless of why
(5) Invade regardless of the lives lost
(6) Give the govt to ANY group of people but sideline the other groups, so the imbalance keeps the country divided and makes it a timebomb rather than some economic power
(6) Put in a puppet govt by holding elections with only the possible puppets as candidates and siphon off any possible natural resources
(7) Profit!!!!!
This works well for Afghanistan and Iraq, and seems to be working on Iran and N Korea currently.
But what I find quite funny is the extraordinary lack of symmetry. The US has nuclear weapons. Why? Because of rogue countries like N Korea which might use them. N Korea has Nuclear weapons, why? Because rogue nations like USA might attack. Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Why? Because India might attack.
Whats worse is that the use of Biological and Chemical weapons by the Americans on civilians anywhere has been more extensive than by Saddam on Kurds. USA has been the only country in history to drop nuclear weapons on civilian cities. Now it is attacking another country for owning nuclear weapons, which it does in case the USA attacks.
So the big bully in the playground first beats up the kid. Then the bully says dont defend yourself at all, or I'll beat you up. Then he tries to get support from his friends saying the kid is trying to defend himself, therefore he must be beaten up.
N Korea is a shithole. So was Afghanistan, so was Iraq. Thats because of the economic sidelining of Uncle Sam, which has full control over the global economy. N Korea in many ways is trying to kick start their economy with a free economy zone, attract tourists etc. Sure theyre not doing a good job of it, but thats because they also have to defend themselves of American infiltration. But economy is in their sights, and the people are still dying of hunger. Is it because they are completely incapable of manufacturing exportable goods? China is not a democracy, but they are exporting goods and a far smaller percentage is dying of starvation.
Interesting is also the case of Zimbabwe's president Mugabe. He was elected in an election. But since he disagrees with Britain, has the guts to flip em the bird, suddenly Zimbabwe is a terrorist country, with a dictator, and if their natural resources were sufficient, it would warrant an invasion by the white knights of the west. Rule: Never EVER disagree with the USA.
I think the USA turning into such a bully is a very natural part of any empire in history. As soon as they become the undisputed global leader, they use excessive political and military forces for their personal benefits, until they become the global villain enough to be toppled by another global regeime. Think of the Chinese empires, the Roman empire, Greek empire, Mongolian empire etc. Couple that with the fact that you cannot suppress any people for too long, the future does not bode well for the Americans
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Wrong.
When the North was considering its invasion of the South, it didn't go to China to talk to Mao to see if it would be all right with him, they went to Moscow to talk with Stalin.
When the UN invaded North Korea China didn't blink until troops were standing on their border. The Chinese response wasn't out of brotherly love for fellow Communists, but out of concern for their own security.
In the 1960s the Soviets and the Chinese had a parting of ways. Since then the Stalinist and the Maoist states have been on speaking terms at best and at each others throats at worst.
North Korea was and remains loyal to the Stalinist model of Socialism. It does not and never has been on terribly friendly terms with the Chinese.
No, the reason no one has invaded North Korea since the Korean War is the guarantee of the North's safety by the Soviets. It was Soviet, not Chinese pilots, flying MIGs over the battlefields of the Korean war. It was Soviet, not Chinese equipment clutched in the hands of the Korean troops as they surged over the border into the South. It was Soviet, not Chinese military advisors that assisted the Koreans in planning and executing the offensives that opened the war. Today, of course, the Soviets are a fast fading memory, but their legacy has not passed on.
We know, because the Russians have told us, that the North Koreans were supplied with weapons by the Soviet Government, including weaponized Small Pox (India 1) and other lovely toys. An invasion of North Korea would be suicide. Weapons of Mass Destruction are not just limited to Nuclear Weapons. North Korea has long had enough chemical and biological firepower to reduce the South to a wasteland. With missiles capable of reaching the United States their capability now extends to second strike capability and thus deterrence.
To those that would, at this point, suggest a missile shield as the solution to our problems, I caution you. A missile shield serves only to antagonize. An ABM system is seen as an OFFENSIVE weapon by any country that relies on deterrence to defend itself. The development of an ABM system can rapidly lead to a use it or loose it scenario wherein preemptive strikes are necessary to prevent the loss of parity.
Moreover, the existing US deterrent is more than enough to ensure that the North does not launch on the United States or her allies without overwhelming provocation. Admittedly, we must treat the North Korean deterrent with deference and its due import, but such is the case of any military power.
As the NRA has argued, an armed society is a polite society. And while this has little place in a world with rules, government, and authority, the international system has none of those things. It is fundamentally an anarchic system. In such a system, those that have the capability to destroy each other are more apt to seek peace than those to whom war is a profitable venture.
And you think we have it bad? Go try to buy gas in China or Europe or Japan... it's alot more expensive and the rise in oil prices hurts them alot more than it hurts us. That's the whole point, u know. It's not about saying "ok, we now make oil free for U.S. for teh win!"... it's about controlling where the oil goes. You'll notice the Iraqi Admin is about to hand out a bunch of contracts to American firms which aren't exactly going to be shipping oil to China when they come knocking.
Control over oil is NOT the same thing as control over the price of oil. Price is just this made up thing that is highly relative. Not having oil for your tanks when the time comes, well, that's a little more concrete, wouldn't u say? That's why Hitler lost, after all...
Also, there is the military factor. Do you know how much it costs to get fuel out to, say, tanks in Iraq? I forget the exact number but it's like $40-$300 bucks PER GALLON. All of that comes from transportation costs...do you think they really give a fuck that the price went up by $.50 for domestic consumers? When the military funds half the economy?!
Geez...
As far as N. Korea not commiting mass genocide... you clearly haven't been looking at the figures regarding how many people are starving there on a daily basis, have you? It's as full blown as genocide get's buddy.
And about Iraq: go look at the damn history will you. Everyone in every administration has known what the deal is with Saddam. While he was busy slaughtering his own people in the 80s (and yes, everyone knew about it. it was in the damn paper for christs sake), we were shipping him the weapons to do so. So don't give me this crap about how we wen't in there to save Saddam's people.
Yet here you are knocking the "sheep"... you fucking moron, go read a history book or at least the damned papers.
1) Establish your currency as the only currency with which to purchase oil.
2) Print off money whenever you need, trade it with foreign nations for goods and services, knowing that it won't be redeemed for goods from your own country but rather hoarded and traded by other nations, and that your country will thus grow rich
3) Profit!
4) Notice that some scumbag in Iraq is trading oil for euros instead of dollars
5) Realize that if you can buy oil with euros instead of dollars all those dollars you printed are going to come home like so many bad cheques
6) Invade Iraq and establish a puppet government
7) Profit!
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
"The real reason gas prices are so high is because of investors taking advantage of the gullible in a speculative market."
Or could it be that American's demands for gasoline are relatively in-elastic and the war just makes a good excuse for raising prices.
> This statement is idiotic. North Korea had
> nothing to fear until they developed nukes. Now
> they're afraid because... they developed nukes.
United States Congress has this year sponsored "Freedom Fighters" in the following countries, with the following sums:
Russia $150,000,000
Iran $150,000,000
Egypt $25,000,000
Syria $5,000,000
Venezuela $20,000,000
Cuba $40,000,000
North Korea $20,000,000
Myanmar $12,000,000
These include terrorist groups like MEK
It should prove that MANY COUNTRIES have a LOT
to fear from U.S., even if they've never developed
nukes.
It also seems that US going wimpy on North Korea,
and bullish on Iran, just proves that nukes are worth it in their deterrent value.
You don't hear Rumsfeld being uncertain about Iranian nukes, whereas you can read him doubt
that North Korean nukes even exist. The funny thing is, that Iran claims to have none, and North is claiming to have several. Read it here.
"American imperialists are very arrogant, they are very unreasonable whenever they can get away with it, if they became a little bit reasonable, it was because they had no other choice."
This reminds me of GWB who is such a "decisive leader" that he wont accept constructive critism to his policies. I think it was a mistake to accuse North Korea, Iran, and Iraq of being the "axis of evil" -- and impling that he might take military action to preempt the threat from their weapons of mass destruction...and then actually invading Iraq which didnt have a WMD programme but the other two do. this has effectively pushed North korea and Iran against the wall. They are next!
From the three, I rate North Korea as the most dangerous. They are still technically at war with the UN with a truce that could end anytime. Dear Leader Kim is unpredictable that even the Chinese do not trust him. This is the person the US should have taken out first and not Saddam.
Iranians are nationalists. Any form of outside political influence will be resisted from the moderates and hardliners alike. I personally do not see them as a threat since the government does not threaten its neighbours militarily directly but through proxies, the same methods empoyed by the CIA for decades. Setting up the Shah by the US and Britain taught them a lesson they are not ready to forget.
Iraq was the weakest of them all and definately not a threat. Saddam was powerfull during the Iran-Iraq war but was firmly under the control of western powers. Incidentally, this is when he commited most of the crimes he is now being charged with like the gasing of the Kurds. The 8 year war against Iran had drained its resouces and he disastarously invaded Kuwait. Kuwait was actually formed in 1961 by Britain, though Iraq had already gained independence in 1932. A look at the map and you see why Saddam really wanted Kuwait. His actions were followed by a devastating war and 10 years of sanctions. No wonder he was easy prey for GWB and co.
I don't care anymore what North Korea has. As an American, I have no intention of paying a dime in extortion money to that psycho-midget. The psycho has starved, suppressed, and brutalized his own people in order to obtain nuclear weapons. I'm tired of playing 'who blinks first' games with the world, and I'm even more tired of some moron overseas making light of 9/11, and making statements about how Bush is 'evil'. Frankly I'm pretty damn happy we went after Afghanistan, and even more so that we went into Iraq. To hell with you people who said that Iraq would be like Vietnam -- what a load of crap; they just voted for the first time in over half a century. To hell with you people who indicate that Bush is making things worse... for the first time there's real potential for Palestinian/Israeli talks working out. To hell with the nay-sayers who are more pissed off that the world is actually being pushed into cleaning itself up. Personally I'm just tired of paying for the rest of the worlds incompetence. The US doesn't OWE the world a DAMN thing. We don't OWE foreign nations money to assist with banking, or monetary woes. We don't OWE the world foreign aid. We don't owe the damn world a thing and yet we still take on the worlds problems. We're still the first place the world turns whenever there's a major problem that needs to be cleaned up. I mean honestly... why the HELL do we need to be sitting at a table with North Korea?? OH that's right... because North Korea doesn't give a damn about China, South Korea, Japan, or any other nation in the area. They know the only nation worth a damn is the US. If europeans who're content to sit on their butts watching the US work think they can do it better... please, by all means go ahead and pay that psycho midget for more of his lies.
"Maybe they should start acting a bit more rational and patriotic - and a bit less like homo pinko commie politcally correct appeaser pacifist traitors."
SIEG HEIL!!! SIEG HEIL!!!
Your closer than you think. Or maybe honestly willing to admit.
On a side interesting note, we in the West always have a immediate negative reaction to the phrase sieg heil. At least I always have. I have the same mental image I think many people do of a very strange little man with a "unique" moustache. However, did you know it means safe victory when translated?
Look at Iraq today: Does it have elections? Yes Is it a working and stable democracy? Definitely not Are dozens of people dying every day, because the country is in a state of half a civil war? Yes Also, don't mistake voter turnout for a sign of a healthy democracy. Dictatorships usually have the highest turnouts in their fake votes than any real democracy and by some standards, the USA have the lowest voter turnout worldwide, yet it seems to be working well, doesn't it? No I'm not saying NK is good for the people, but Bush isn't likely going to attack NK anytime soon anyway. Look at Cuba for example. They have a regime that is non-democratic and in Bush's opinion would have to be replaced. Yet Cuba isn't that bad off and they have a health-care system that is splendid, particularly in rural regions. That system would collapse faster than you could say "splat", if the regime was overturned and the country emerged in a classical capitalist market. I seriously doubt they'd be better off without Castro, even if he has his faults. Iran is similar, only that their regime is founded on religion. Overturning their regime is like going into the Amazon and try to mission some indians that catholicism is the way to go. We stopped doing that 100 years ago, why start over now?
oh, it takes about that long for the cheap oil to get processed through the refinery.
Not only does it take a while to get processed through the refinery (and then delivered to where you are), but it also takes a long time for the oil to get TO the refinery. Those oil prices that they quote on the evening news? Those are for delivery generally at least a month in advance. That's why they're called "futures".
There is all this talk of foreign aid to North Korea? South Korea has been trying to help with economics based initiatives.
US gives $1 billion to Israel each year mostly military stuff.
I just wanted to call bull shit on the size of North Koreas foreign aid.
Just another leftie [except when boxing]
Be Free: Free Software Tuition