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Man Finds $1,000 Prize in EULA
bhtooefr writes "When Doug Heckman was installing a PC Pitstop program, he actually read the EULA. In it, he found a clause stating that he could get financial compensation if he e-mailed PC Pitstop. The result: a $1,000 check, and proof that people don't read EULAs (3,000 people before him didn't notice it). The goal of this was to prove that one should read all EULAs, so that one can see if an app is spyware if it is buried in the EULA."
One of our developers buried some easter eggs in a web-based game, and nobody has claimed them yet after several months.
:)
And the kicker is, players do talk about strange "bugs", even ask us to fix them, but none of them actually goes so far as to discover those eggs. Maybe they will now after reading this post
So I gather some of the 3000 users may have read the EULA but dismissed the possibility of real cash prize., just like not everybody entered suparmarket prize draw thinking that they won't be so lucky.
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
where was that EULA link again?
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Don't know if it's worth 1,000.
The safest way to approach lava is to have another person with you and he goes first.
That's not going to make people read EULAs...all that will make people do is say, "wow, I wish I had been that guy, what a break!"
From now on, I'm at least doing Ctrl-F, 1,000
Mmmm. That's a tough one, but I'll have to pass on the $1,000.
Too many look like that Gator one - pages and pages of gobbledy-gook and mumbo jumbo which ultimately translate to all your base are belong to us.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
I'm still waiting for my scale model replica Herbie The Love Bug that I was supposed to receive after mailing in 15 Cheerios box tops in 1974.
I think you are missing the point. The point they are making here us that even a cursory overview of the EULA will tell you if an application is spyware or not. Or if you will be rendered legally sterilizeable if you install this software.
Think of Rumplestiltskin, without the princess even knowing what her end of the deal is.
You say you want a revolution....
... we, the slashdotting community, will not be receiving an award for burning down their server. :(
... what's his name and email again? i'm his cousin ... and stuff.
After discovering the nastiness of the kazaa family back in the day, i've been much more careful about reading the EULAs - plenty of "iffy" programs have not been installed on my Windows machines because of the trash found in so many EULAs that apparently no one reads anymore! (or did they ever?)
'cept our newly enriched friend
so that one can see if an app is spyware if it is buried in the EULA
Because all spyware apps include a EULA with "THIS IS SPYWARE" in big bold letters? People don't read EULA's because they are legal fluff and mean nothing to the average reader. I personally would like to see a standard, simple format for EULA's like credit card companies do with rate disclosures. Otherwise most users have no idea what they have just agreed to.
Nobody needs to read a GPL license more than once; why can't we have standard comercial agreements? What we need is a standard set of EULAs for different types of software with coded variations ("basic closed source EULA with XXX clause").
I'm reinstalling all the programs I own just so I can check their EULA's now.
'Every story, if continued long enough, ends in death.' --Ernest Hemingway
I read my Win2000 SP4 EULA and found out that I owe THEM $1000. Those jerks still haven't cashed my check, either.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
A lot of EULA's are difficult to understand, a lot of technical/computer language, and not to forget legal/lawyer stuff.
Knowing so many open source lovers (like myself) are here on slashdot, how many of you have read the GNU GPL?
I had trouble understanding it all, but English is not my primary language...
Dependency hell? =>
So this is the latest variant of the old fable (big boulder in the middle of the road, everyone walks around it, the chap who finally pushes it aside finds the treasure underneath). But really - nice as the story is, is it going to make any change to how people treat an EULA? I think not.
People will still not read an EULA because
(a) They know thay not every EULA has a $1000 check buried in it
(b) They still won't understand the real point to reading the EULA - which is understanding exactly what the software claims it will do on your computer.
Unless they get (b), there really is no reason to read an EULA.
I think the point they're making is that people don't read EULA's and in terms of research, the $1K prize was worth it for the PC Pitstop people to demonstrate that they could pretty much do anything they liked and have the user agreeing to all conditions as a precondition to use. The only real outs for the end user are 1) proving the eventual end user agreed (rather than it was all pre-installed stuff) 2) that EULA's hold any real legal weight, which some haven't.
Think of Rumplestiltskin, without the princess even knowing what her end of the deal is.
And yet the princess was pretty venal, expecting to take advantage of the little dude. Ain't no saints in that story.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
me, and everyone in my team are just going to spend time reading EULAs all day long. Sounds like its more productive than research anyway.
I don't want to read
In Steve Mann's award winning paper he describes a technique he calls Ouijagree. The next time you are presented with an EULA, grab three nearby people (family members, fellow employees) and have them gentle place their fingers on the mouse. Add your own fingers and then call upon the spirits to agree to the EULA. Watch! as the mouse slowly glides from its current position, possibily spelling out the names of lost loved ones, as it approaches the I Agree button. Should it linger over the button too long, feel free to click yourself as the spirits have made their intention clear. Now it is not you who has agreed to that EULA, it's your long dead great grandfather, who came from beyond the grave to take away your legal responsibility.
How we know is more important than what we know.
Will he read the soul-selling EULA on the back of the $1000 check?
Think of Rumplestiltskin, without the princess even knowing what her end of the deal is.
And yet the princess was pretty venal, expecting to take advantage of the little dude. Ain't no saints in that story.
That's the point
You say you want a revolution....
From TFA:
"The goal of this was to prove that one should read all EULAs, so that one can see if an app is spyware if it is buried in the EULA."
This is even assuming the 'this product includes spyware' statement is even there, encoded in a bunch of legalese. Companies that have spyware in their products are going to hide it as much as is legally possible, and even moreso if they think they can get away with it. This story indicates that they probably CAN get away with it.
Tag lost or not installed.
Sure, it cost them $1,000, but it's going to get their name in the press.
Free of Flash! Free of Flash!
EULA...read? Somebody make a EULA search engine...or better yet, a Legalese-English translator for EULA's.
"There are some people that if they don't know, you can't tell them." ~ Louis Armstrong
EULA's suck. Why should this do anything to change my opinon?
PS. I wonder what would have happened if the corp refused to pay up?
Im pretty sure EULAs are not legally binding under the UK Consumer Rights Act (namely the bit that talks about fair legal contracts drawn up buy both parties on equal footing, and also statutory rights) anyone know better?
Personally I think this is a case where the government needs to protect the ignorant and at the same time protect me, because if the idiot masses don't read EULAs and allow their consumer rights to be chipped away, then mine will also be lost.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
This things should not be legally binding. Consumers should have a standard, mandated set of rights when purchasing software and other products. EULAs only exist for the benefit of companies that don't tend to give a shit about the interests of their customers (spyware as the perfect example, microsoft as another).
SAILING MISHAP
I'd just like to point out something about the claim in spyware EULA's which says that you are agreeing for them to capture "non-personally identifiable information" -- while it may be true that the captured web history and form input logs don't literally have your name in them, it's a simple matter for the customer of the spyware marketing service to match up a given capture log with your known identity on one of their web sites, by matching page sequences and/or time stamps, and then from that starting point they then can tell what you *individually* were looking at, searching for, and entering into web forms on every other site you visit, forever.
Imagine if you follow somebody around for months and watch every move they make -- you can learn anything needed to advance whatever agenda you have in mind.
has small print on the back stating that by endorsing that check, he agreed to switch his long distance carrier to Siberian Porn & Bell, he provided his bank account number to the entire country of Nigeria, and his testicles will be fed to contestants on Fear Factor.
I'm not convinced that the people who include EULA's in their products even read them. There is clearly a lot of cutting and pasting that goes on. I find lots of bizarre threats about infringement and exclusivity attached to unsupported free products. One Eula had changed the warranty section to read: "by agreeing to this license, you are granted a warranty for a period of zero (0) days.", rather than just change the language to indicate that their was no warranty.
Best one I've seen so far: reading the EULA for a RPG dice rolling program, I find this:
Section 3.a.i: This software is a guitar utility. This is a learning tool.
A dice roller that teaches you to play the guitar? Now that's a feature!
And the kicker is, players do talk about strange "bugs", even ask us to fix them, but none of them actually goes so far as to discover those eggs. Maybe they will now after reading this post :)
An easter egg is a fair amount different than a prize offering burried deep in an EULA. People generally will find easter eggs 1 of 3 ways:
1) by searching specifically for an easter egg because they think there is one there for some reason
2) completely by accident
3) after being told exactly how to find it by someone else who found it through methods 1, 2 or
Finding a prize in an EULA is a little easier since people really should be reading legal contracts before signing them with the next button. Not very many people are just going to randomly search for easter eggs in software, since that's just a waste of time, and equally few people will investigate bugs fully enough to find an easter egg by mistake.
a special consideration which may include financial will be awarded to a limited number of authorize licensee to read this section of the license agreement and contact PC Pitstop at consideration@pcpitstop.com. (FoxNote: it should be obvious we shouldn't bombard this email server) This offer can be withdrawn at any time.
The rock, the vulture, and the chain
The goal of this was to prove that one should read all EULAs
This is not a goal I want to be moving towards.
I mean, I can go to home depot and buy a nail gun and a welding torch without having to read, parse, and agree to any complex and lengthy legal agreement. Why should I have to do this to buy and use software?
A few days ago I submitted a story about Blizzard not honoring their EULA in full. After much arguing with Blizzard's support staff, I have heard from them today:
The really funny part is that they have never asked for the old key, yet somehow they have disabled it. I can't check, because it never worked for me.
Edward Burr
Having a smoking section in a restaurant is like having a peeing section in a swimming pool.
why can't we have standard comercial agreements?
Right, and those are called laws. Most of an EULA is already codified in various laws, and everything else is asking you to give up your rights.
If I buy a telephone at WalMart I don't have to sign an EULA. If I buy a softphone at WalMart they expect me to agree to an EULA. What's the difference?
If I buy a car, it comes with software in it, but they don't expect me to sign an EULA.
As far as I can tell, an EULA is saying that Chewbacca lives on Endor.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Software companies, feel free to use in your own products. Released into the public domain.
----
YOUR_COMPANY_NAME_HERE ("Company") makes this copy of NAME_OF_YOUR_SOFTWARE_PRODUCT ("Software") available to you ("Licensee") under terms of this End User License Agreement ("EULA"). By installing software you agree to be bound by the terms contained herein.
LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
Company makes no guarantee of any kind, and waives all implied warranties including mercantibility and fitness for a particular purpose. Company shall not be held liable for any damage, personal injury, deaths, loss of profits, growth of additional organs, or any other injury or debt suffered by licensee due to any negligence, fraud, or other criminal or civil breach of contract or law committed by company. Licensee will hold company harmless under all circumstances in perpetuity.
PARTICIPATION IN GAINS
Company shall participate in the profits, advantages, or other benefits that the licensee experiences as a result of installing, using, or otherwise having anything to do with software no matter how remote or mundane. Company reserves the right to inspect the records of licensees business, premises, or person at any time for any reason to determine if it is entitled to a share of licensee's gains.
GRANTING OF ALL RIGHTS
Licensee gives software and company the right to do do anything it wants to your property or person for any reason. See limitation of liability and participation in gains for more information.
SEVERABILITY
Should a court of any kind find any part of this agreement unenforceable, the remainder of the agreement shall still have full force and effect.
IMMUNITY FROM LAW
No court shall have the power to enforce any of these provisions against the company, but shall have unlimited power to enforce any provision against the licensee. Licensee accepts the jurisdiction of any court.
RECOVERY OF FEES
Licensee must reimburse company for all enforcement fees incurred as a result of any action, in addition to paying a $100,000,000 penalty to the company, whether or not its action is justified.
GOOD FAITH AND DUE CONSIDERATION
Licensee declines any due consideration in accepting this EULA. Licensee accepts this agreement in good faith and verifies that they have read it and understood it in its entirety even if they just scrolled to the end and clicked OK without so much as glancing at it.
RESTRICTIONS ON REDISTRIBUTION
Licensee may not redistribute software in any way. Licensee may not format shift or space shift this software. Licensee waives all fair use rights, including the right to make a backup copy. Backup copies may be purchased from company for a (large) fee.
RESTRICTIONS ON USE
Licensee can only use the software for its intended purposes. We'll let you know what its intended purpose is when we catch you doing it and bring costly legal action against you.
Licensee must discontinue use of software and upgrade when company decides software has reached its end of life.
REVERSE ENGINEERING
Don't even think about it unless you've got really deep pockets so we can sue you for everything.
Sounds like a great marketing idea.
1. Get a friend of yours to say they got $1000 from your software
2. Advertise the event on your website
3. Include a fair share of advertisements on page
4. Submit miracle story of how great EULA's are to slashdot
5. People flock to your website to see what it's all about
6. Profit
Even underpants gnomes can figure this one out. Until somebody does an indepth report on the story I'll consider it a ploy and move on.
Is this what you were looking for, my good man?
Even Software Companies.
Your brand-new generic-EULA is so faithful that I can't even read the first paragraph.
Contratulations.
Please, can somebody explain me the funny part of this CEULA?
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
The first thing I do when I receive a credit card or load application is to flip it over and read the mandatory disclosure table. 2 or 3 seconds and I know right away if I'm being offered a good deal or taken for a ride. Why should EULAs be any harder?
No one reads them and everyone (including the companies that include them with their products) knows that no one reads them.
Armchairgenius.com - Where everyone is a genius.
I don't know why people are complaining that there are too many open source software licenses. I typically only see a handful of them. And if the software says it's GPL'ed, I don't have to read the damn thing, because I read it already back in 1991. I know what it says.
But these commercial licenses - Jesus Christ they are long, they are complicated, they are in fine print, they are badly written, and they are all unique. It's like a fricking zork maze. Someone needs to figure out how much time it takes to read software licenses and add that to the "cost of ownership" that they report.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
More companies should move the GPL style of EULA. (As much as I like the free stuff I am referring to the versioning idea in this case.)
That way, instead of requiring a lawyer every time you install a piece of software or run Windows Update you could call your lawyer only periodically. "Hey Larry, Could you check out MS EULA 4.3 and see if any of the changes bother you?"
With EULAs all over the place there is no way you can keep up. Many of them are 20 pages or more and how can you read that when you just want to install the software and see if/how it works?
Coding Blog
According to the band the reason for this clause was to assure that the contract had been read and understood and therefore, all technical specifications for stage conditions, power and so forth would be met.
The lawyer quoted in the article, Parry Aftab, isn't she the infamous Aftab who (was said to have) harassed Katie Jones of Katie.com?
From the article "...if the agreement is incomprehensible, it may be unenforceable, according to Aftab."
Personally i wouldn't trust Ms. Aftab to sit the right way on a toilet. Let alone give sound legal advice.
Oh, and down with software patents and Linux rules n all that.
Yet Socrates himself is particularly missed.
A lovely little thinker but a bugger when he's pissed.
My buddies and I in college had an ongoing gag... anyone who got up and left the vicinity of their computer with a lab report/paper/presentation on the screen had the phrase "I poop too much" inserted somewhere at random.
Unfortunately, an otherwise excellent paper that I got back had a red pen circle around a certain phrase on the 9th page, with the comment "proofread" written next to it.
"No fair, you changed the outcome by measuring it!" - Professor Hubert J. Farnsworth
The goal of this was to prove that one should read all EULAs, so that one can see if an app is spyware if it is buried in the EULA."
Of the things I want to do the LEAST in my life, reading EULAs ranks pretty high among things which do not cause physical pain or summering to my loved ones.
Fuck reading it. I am more likely to look a prog up on CNET. If it had a lot of thumbs-down, I read those and see what people complain about. People always complain about spyware if its there (and sometimes even if its not)
Doing a google or deja search for name of the program and spyware always brings up some discussion of that topic, which lets me know conclusively (well, as far as something can be conclusive on an internet thread) what the answer is.
Reading the actual EULA? If I am a billion dollar company about to bind something with my product, yea I'll read it. But for something I am installing at home, behind a firewall which will prevent it from phoning home, FUCK IT! Who cares what they wrote?
Ecce Europa - Web Design for Business
Back in '95 or so, free SSH clients were more or less non-existant. About all there was for the PC was F-Secure's SSH client, which they allowed people to download 30 day trial copies for. When my copy expired, I poked around in the EULA that came with it. I found that the EULA stated that the copy was valid for exactly 60 days. =)
;)
So I emailed them asking them for a copy with the correct number of days enabled. They wrote back, instead of making the programmers go to the effort of recompiling, how about just a free copy of the client? Which was exactly what I was hoping to get by asking for the extra 30 days.
To this day, I still use my free copy of F-Secure SSH.
-Bill Kerney
If I have to read the EULA, or am legally expected to have done so, I need to know the length of it before purchase.
If I'm buying a new mousemat and it has a 20 page EULA, I'll decline the purchase, as the reading time outweighs the value of the product.
This means all products need the full EULA text printed on the outside of the packaging.
EULAs are bullshit that keep lawyers in sports cars, one reason my games don't have them.
DRM-free indie games for the PC and Mac: Positech Games
The thing is that the content of the text is ignored partly because people are looking at what buttons to push to get past it to get the software they wanted at the pace that the expect computers to deliver it...
A computer screen a work or the home is exactly the WRONG place to ask if you've developped sober second thoughts about having shelled out money already.
You could write in there that they agree so sell their souls into perdition and nobody would notice.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
It seems to me that even if you attempt to read the EULA of a lot of the spyware out there you can't tell that it's spyware.
It's not as if they say somewhere in the text "This is Spyware".
You can't reasonably expect every 10 year old, grandmother, or even your boss at work to actually understand any of the technical mumbo jumbo that Spyware/Adware uses to describe itself. Most people do not understand what spyware/adware is, that it may be bad or how it would be described in a EULA.