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EU Commission Declines Patent Debate Restart
maxkueng writes "I just recieved an email from NoSoftwarePatents.com. They say: 'The EU Commission, under the leadership of someone who previously failed as Portuguese prime minister and as per the suggestion of a Microsoft puppet, has decided to decline the European Parliament's request for restarting the process on the software patent directive.' More can be read on Florian Mueller's Forum post."
Once they're bought, they stay bought.
It's a sad day for those who believe democratic ideals were still governing politicians actions in the EU. A really sad day.
:%s/Open Source/Free Software/g
YTARY!
Can any informed Europeans tell us why the Comission can just ignore what they've been told to do?
It just seems really odd that when the elected groups say "game over" the other group can just say "too bad, we're doing it".
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
From TFA:
Florian Mueller, the manager of the pan-European NoSoftwarePatents.com campaign, condemned the Commission's decision in the strongest terms: "A wannabe Napoleon who heads the Commission and a Microsoft puppet that runs the DG (directorate general) in charge have decided to negate democracy. Now we call on the EU Council to demonstrate a more democratic attitude and to reopen negotiations of its Common Position at the forthcoming meeting of the Competitiveness Council on Monday (7 March)."
It would appear the European Commission has moderated him -1 Flamebait and will be ignoring him.
I'm a big tall mofo.
Failed to decide to decline to request to restart the process on the directive?!?
Normally I cringe at stupid comments like "Microsoft puppet" but in this case, it was the only clue I had to unravel the rest of that tangle and conclude that this is a win for the pro-patent side.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
I agree that a lot of software patents are a joke (the isNot example comes to mind)--but so are a lot of non-software patents. I think we just have a preference here because software patents "hit closer to home."
If it were as easy to get "duh-obvious" patents in the hardware realm, the hardware world would similarly be handicapped. In my opinion, we simply need more, better-educated people working at the USPTO, as well as stricter, more consistent rules for granting patents.
A great new idea that no one has thought of before can theoretically exist in any field, even software.
I can see how free software is threatened (I am myself an advocate), but I fail to see how any other hobby activity is also not similarly threatened, except for, say, building remote control cars isn't as easy to "publish" than software.
I guess my point is that the real problem is crappy patents, and they exist in every field, and they cause similar problems. Maybe there is a place for software patents that do truly contain unique and innovative ideas--or at least such a software patent would have more merit to me than a frivolous hardware patent.
Slashdot: Where people pretend to be twice as smart as they really are by behaving like children.
I don't believe that the European Commission negated any sort of democracy. Before I get mugged by a bunch of open-sourcers, I must say that I completely agree with the harsh language and condemnatory tone of the article, as well as with the idea of open source. However, a democracy cannot be negated; the fact is, a democracy is a form of government where the people as a whole have the final say. That is obviously not the case, as the European Commission as a whole (and the Microsoft puppet and failed Prime Minister of Portugal specifically) was able to have the "final" say. I find it really petty when people try to get a reaction out of people by using incorrect words that have a strong connotation (like freedom, liberty, democracy) instead of using the correct terminology.
It has been a nervous year, with people beginning to feel like Christian Scientists with appendicitis.
Time to send another round of complaint emails to EU... er... representatives.
Patent laws: made for the benefit of little inventors, opposed by little inventors, pushed by big corporations. Something is quite wrong.
---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
In the name of the Portuguese people: sorry.
But we had to get him out of here!
per the suggestion of a Microsoft puppet
You will never replace Jim Henson, Mr. Gates... do you hear me?!?!?!! WELL, DO YOU!!?!?
Man, first I quit taking methamphetamines, and now this... If it wasn't for my talking sofa and the giant fat men, I don't think I'd make it through some days...
--
I have no idea what inspired this comment.
Yeah, well, you try it. It's not all hanging about on the Algarve and drinking 25 year old Port, you know?
John.
This is confusing. "NoSoftwarePatents.com" wants "no software patents". The EU has stopped legislation that would have created SW patents several times. Every time the laws get stopped, the process gets restarted, and SW patents become possible again. This time, the EU has stopped the restart - which would seem to stop the patents. So why is NSP.com against it? What am I missing? Would *this* time through the process somehow explicitly produce a "no patents" law, which would stop it "once and for all"?
--
make install -not war
The reported reason was that if they do restart, they must produce a new text on which several other Directorate Generals (DG), such as Information Society and Competition, must agree as well. These other DG's would reportedly never support an extreme text such as the one currently on the table in the Council, or even the original Commission proposal from 2002. They would insist on a more balanced approach, which is apparently not desired by DG MARKT - Directorate General for the Internal Market.
In the mean time, highly placed government sources have also confirmed to the FFII that the directive will once more appear as an A-item on 7 March, this time on the agenda of the responsible Competition Council formation. All hope for a democratic and balanced resolution now rests on the shoulders of the ministers and officials who will attend that Council meeting. Turning the directive back into a B-item, i.e. a discussion point, seems to be the only proper way out now.
http://wiki.ffii.org/Com050228En
Any celebrations about the directive being thrown out were premature - the BBC site for one got carried away:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4274811.stm
The European Parliament has thrown out a bill that would have allowed software to be patented.
We wish! The headline was more accurate than the sub-text:
EU software patent law faces axe
Faces, but the axe isn't falling yet.
It's not worthless. It certainly looks like it'll generate some value for its buyers.
With unhinged comments like that he's never going end up anywhere else than in the populist fringe.
The owls are not what they seem
That was the only way I could figure out the meaning of that sentence! I couldn't remember if restarting was good or bad...
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
This guy left Algarve to go to Brussels??? What could drive someone to do such a thing?
I don't think it'd be that hard to make, all you need is a paper clip and a two of those plastic bouncy eyes. And maybe some string...
Oh! and don't forget the annoying dialogue bubbles.
Meanwhile, one of the Directive's key supporters, the German Federal Ministry of Justice, has reportedly received approximately 500 bananas, shipped in more than 150 parcels, from constituents appalled by what they consider "banana republic style" disrespect for the national and European parliaments.
>as per the suggestion of a M... ...uppet
Fozzie Bear is a Lobbyist!
Bork Bork Bork
You can't talk about Wikipedia's flaws on Wikipedia
Perhaps companies that try to patent blatantly unpatentable things should be punished somehow - like a fine or a period of time where they can't patent anything for a while.
This such a thing as barratry with lawyers after all.
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
I'd like to say "keep fighting it", but lets face it, if 1 or 2 countries keep fighting it they'll just make some new law which lets them ignore 1-2 people being against it so they can just force it through.
Very similar to the hunting ban in the UK, the lords didn't want to ban it so the Government used an act ment for emergencies to force it through and get their way. Surely the EU have a clause which can do the same in some form..
I like muppets.
The democratic parliament and peoples of Europe decline to respect the commissions decline to restart because otherwise we are discussing the decline of democracy.
Pfft politics!
MS denies Windows needs restart.
Be prepared, the whole EU is about to fall to similar things. The united states has a similar thing in front of them. Microsoft has managed with the help of campaign contributions to get a strangle hold on the legislature of teh world.
Be better in bed. Wikiafterdark!
So Italy's not a part of Europe?
You don't know the intention of the *new* *different* Commission. Don't assume they don't see the problem the way the last lot didn't.
Here is fax your mp = get a question asked about this in Parliament = it will destroy the British software Industry. /. for democracy and all our coding futures.
http://www.faxyourmp.com/
And Contact details for your MP's phone and address.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/
C'mon lets
I am also torn. I think software patents are a terrible burden on software developers and open source software. However I think it's great that the Europeans are willing to hand us their economy like this. Americans and asians own 70% of the currently unenforceable software patents in the EU. Banana republic! Ha ha! PWNED!!!!11!!!one!!1
Michael
his site is very interesting. i am an american and a bit older...it wasn't that long ago that ireland was struggling economically...badly.
and i have wondered how the turnaround so fast ?
and now i know. nevermind i've never seena peep about it in any american writings...news or otherwise.
ireland is a tax shelter for many us corporations...including MS. i'd have had no idea this crap was going on if not for this website.
it makes the various american right wing comedians (say trey parker types) look awfully naive when they rail against democrats and for corporations.
Corporate Pigs In Space!!!
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
is the fact that the software ones are being looked at.
As to needing better educated ppl at uspto, that would never solve it. You are asking that somebody has knowledge of x-over patenets as well as in the field. Since they have such a short timer per patent, it becomes unfeasable. Instead, it strikes me that we need to create a much better search engine that works on the patent itself. It would have to deal with more than just search-terms, but even that would be useful. An ideal situation is using an AI (perhaps a n net combined with a GA) to deal with searching through these.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Old Portuguese prime minister is known by being one old activista of left, in a party that defended the ideals of Mao. As it wanted to go up in the life, he moved for a right party. Of Portugal arrived prime minister. To camufular the Portuguese défice he sell public companies, boxes of retirements, increased the taxes, he congealed wages and finally he diminishes the taxes on the companies. Already this was not enough, ran away for Brussels for a position that ninguem wanted, nominating its successor without national elections.
The answer is simple: The unbridled hunger for the corrupting influence that is Brussels. He might not have as much direct power as he had in Algarve, but nobody beats Brussels when it comes to festering corruption.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
"A honest politician is one who, once being bought, stays bought." -- Mark Twain.
The biggest problem i see with software patents is that companies patent the most trivial things.
Unfortunately many companies who would otherwise only patent solid ideas, get pushed into trying to patent everything.. why? because their competitors are doing it.
If company A has thousands of patents and company B has thousands of patents then you hit something like mutually-assured-destruction. Where it's generally impractical to sue each other since it's a virtual certainty that each is infringing on the others patents.
But this also happens in the hardware industry. The big few hard drive manufacturers have patented just about every conceivable way of making and running hard disks. They have cross-licensing agreements which make it very hard for any new players to break into the market.
In the next couple of months many citizens of the EU can vote for an European Constitution in a referendum in their countries. In this constitution the European Parlement is given nearly no decisive powers at all.
The European parlement really shouldn't be called that way.
If every slashdotter killed just 10 lawyers...
Hmmmm...
Somebody remember Edith Cresson? It smells like a corruption again. In addition to the steps that can be taken to prevent this nonsense, the smart@sses which took the decision should be investigated, as quickly as it's possible.
...under the leadership of someone who previously failed as Portuguese prime minister and as per the suggestion of a Microsoft puppet...
Now, that's the kind of insight that gives so many of those people the great reputation they have in the Land of Adults.
Regardess of the merits, or lack thereof, on either side of this issue, that virulent phrase manages to combine the two central themes defining how many free software advocates relate to the rest of the world:
1) Anyone who disagrees with me is incompetent.
2) Anyone who disagrees with me is also taking Microsoft money.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Suggesting that anything to do with Microsoft has strings attached!
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
" ... The solution is patenting as much as we can. A future startup with no patents of its own will be forced to pay whatever price the giants choose to impose. That price might be high. Established companies have an interest in excluding future competitors. l #bgates91
If people had understood how patents would be granted when most of today's ideas were invented and had taken out patents, the industry would be at a complete standstill today.
"
Bill Gates 1991
This was quoted by Fred Warshofsky in "The Patent Wars" of 1994. The text is from an internal memo written by Bill Gates to his staff. Part of has appeared in another Gates memos.
http://swpat.ffii.org/archive/quotes/index.en.htm
care to admit your username, cowardly mismoderator? if not, kindly stop mismoderating my posts.
Just because something sounds like a flamebait, it doesn't mean its not true.
Szo
Red Leader Standing By!
If you were a mass murderer, then by your own argument you could complain that the laws are unfair to your 'lifestyle'.
So I take it you voted against being in the EU?
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Why, only a few months ago, Mobistar was fined, by the EU, because they sold "a package" (Nokia + Mobistar), but MS Gates can walk free, while new pc's are delivered with XP, without even asking you, when you buy, but you pay MS anyway. As long as people as Gates, can impose terms, and walk away, everytime again, nothing will ever change! We (europ) should send BarbaRosso to jail, he's no democrat, he's the same kind as Gates, they rule, but not for the intrest of the people!
Right on target.
It's actually another thing also, closely related to that, and I speak as a portuguese: the attraction of Brussels is that it gives the - generally mediocre - local politicians a sense of "grandeur". It's *the EU*, they can privy with really important people, they will be talked in their place of birth as "having a high place in Brussels...". It's the petty burgoise thinking applied to politics, some weird sense of self importance that comes from talking trough an interpreter and having "sattelite time" to communicate with the locals, obviously barbarians, away from the place that really matters, where they, previously unknown, talk to people with strange names that do matter.
Just talking about this makes me both ashamed and angry as hell. It's a blow in me national pride each time I see them all happy and subservient, like a pincher that is glad he can stick around a doberman and call him "is great pal".
>The answer is simple: The unbridled hunger for the corrupting influence that is Brussels.
I would have said the belgian beer, but you could be right too.
Since the unelected European Commission insists on treating democracy with open comtempt, the European Parliament should sack them.
Commission must this, the advice and to have parliament necessarily notable, to have done. They arrest to test, with the process without a voice, in the theory of the agreement of the advice and parliament agree (in the version of the advice). The some committees of parliament meantime have the total thing more, to start and commission neglected. Moreover the sustentation eats in the advice for the version, during parliaments national of the instructions to the representatives with its government, them does not emit to the sustentation.
Ummm, wasn't it the MEPs who asked for the restart? They already agree it would seem. The issue is that they're being ignored.
In Snivel Boy against Harsh Reality, the Supreme Court ruled that AC's who whine about Slashdot moderation should probably check to see if their milk has expired and clean the dirty condoms out of their mothers' sock drawers, and quit bitching.
The result is that central national governments more or less have free reign to set the law at this level, and central governments think most like other large entities, ie. large corporations, not individuals or smaller businesses.
Pressing for "greater national sovereignty" therefore has the opposite effect of that intended: it reduces individual freedom across Europe, and therefore in each country. We really need to be more careful about what we ask for.
Wikileaks, no DNS
Maybe one too many beers is to blame, but I intially read, "EU Communism Declines Patent Debate Restart".
I was talking to a friend the other day about the feelings that I got from large US corporations: Walmart, Microsoft, you name it. He is a lawyer, and he described them as "angry machines." It's consistent with what I feel when I think about what kind of machinations are going on behind the scenes to push patents through in Europe. How do we, Free Software advocates (and advocates of freedom and cooperation) match the intensity of these folks? Deep in despair, because I see the demise of Free Software in the bowels of these decisions, I wonder how the Nazis, those incredibly angry and strong fanatics, were defeated... What impulse was necessary to counter their hate? Whatever it was, we need it now. Peace signs and hippie love ain't cutting it.
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest. -- Mark Twain
I would like some comments on this idea: Since IP is a business concept, treat it in that way: exclusive IP rights should only be granted until profits made from the IP reach a fixed number (set through political process) times the investment that was required to create the invention claimed as IP. Once those profits have been obtained, the IP should become public domain. In addition to the currently required documentation about the invention and its claims, a deposition about the investment should be made at the time the IP rights are requested and controlled by an independent accountant. Profits can be tracked through income tax returns or will have to be administered separately. This way, anyone wanting to contest the IP rights can do so not only wrt. content but also wrt. investment. This method secures that eg. pharmaceutical companies get their huge investments back for developing new medecines but also secures that eg. existing natural species or commonly used phrases or code chunks cannot be patented. There should be an incentive to invent and innovate but the incentive must relate to the effort required to create the invention. I don't believe that any invention occurred without effort.
What does this mean? I mean they've rejected the patent issue once which forced the restart, now some dickhead is preventing a restart. Does this mean we're sat in a stalemate with the issue languishing in no-man's land? (doesn't sound so bad to me)
"The second negative from the first sentence is missing, but you managed three in the second."
Actually an & is missing from the first sentence, done for effect. The 'didn't' is intentional misuse chosen for emphasis.
But if you didn't understand it, I'll try again:
It is wrong to assume just because a Commissioner sits in the same seat, that he holds the same views as the previous Commissioner.
US model:
1. Pay fat campaign contributions
2. Blow vast amounts of money on convincing the sheep (voters).
EU model:
1. Let voters choose their national government
2. Lobby the EU beurocrats
3. Watch the EU do whatever the hell they want, regardless of national opinion.
So while EU might have a democratic deficit too, I don't think it is the same as the US. More like a modern aristocracy (Government by a ruling class) than a plutocracy...
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Online petitions, letters to members of the paralement, online demonstrations.. crap! What gets you attention is money. Pure, hard and cold money. But I'm not talking about corruption.
What changes the minds of those in power to decide is information. The information distribution, production, and presentation costs time and money, the time of lobbist and the money of the companies behind them.
Free software doesn't have a company nor do we have a big budget. But we are many. Let us slash dot the budget of the lobbists on OUR side.
Yes, there are such folks. The FFII is one of them. Just visit http://swpat.ffii.org - But don't go for online petitions or demos. Go to the donate section. These guys have to pay their office bills, their plane ticks and their printer paper.
Vote with $$$. Change the world. Just like Microsoft.
No, that's not what I meant. I suggested removing from the government the power to regulate patents. That comes down to "no patents", or no officially sanctioned ones, anyway. If that's too hard to swallow, then let's start with "no software patents". Those hypothetical corporations wouldn't gain enforcement in the courts, because the courts, an arm of the government, wouldn't be granted power to do anything about patents.
And there's no spin there. We would not have this topic to discuss today unless the EU had the power to create patent regulation, or at least an unelected arm of the EU attempting a big power grab. A patent is not a naturally-occurring aspect of the marketplace. Patent law is created and enforced by governments, which are supposed to be disinterested third parties. It's not working out that way, though, is it?
Fred
"A fool and his freedom are soon parted"
-RMS
'The EU Commission, under the leadership of someone who previously failed as Portuguese prime minister'
If you look at the members of the EU commission you'll find that they have all failed in some pretty important political appointments. The EU commission is where the failures who can't be offered a cushy post in their own countries, because of the outcry it would provoke, are pushed off to on the quiet in the hope that no one notices that they are still around cocking thigs up
No but, yeah but, no but...
European politicians are just a little bit more subtle about selling their souls to satan whereas the American politicians just don't give a crap who knows and don't even try to hide it anymore.
Coding Monkey.org - Spanging the heavy spade of truth into t
Washington, DC?
While Minister for Finance in Ireland he was forced to row back on a number of announcments made in his budgets due to opposition from the general public. He also gave 50m to an equestrian center without going through the correct procedures; for no apparent reason other than he likes horses.
Eventually his tactics were hurting the government party so badly that he was shafted and sent to Europe for retirement.
Whether he can maintain his current position on patents I do not know, but as an Irish person it isn't surprising to see Charlie's tactics remain the same.
The EU Commision is appointed by the heads of state of the various EU countries, while the EU parliment is an elected but somewhat powerless organisation. The EU's coming constitution is a joke as it only cements this bad state of affairs. The commision should be elected, but you can well expect that the old dinosaur demagogues of European politics, among them Berlusconi of Italy and Chirac of France will fight tooth and nail to keep their influence on the Commision.
Democracy in Europe!
Mobistar was fined under Belgian law, according to which "tying" is illegal. The practice is, however, perfectly legal in other countries of the EU: phone + service bundles are commonly sold in the UK, to give one example.
If your comment title says 'Re: Foo', I'm not likely to read it.
The Socialists had a great victory in Portugal two weeks ago. By the way, they benefitted from the frustration created by the wretched governation of Mr. Barroso and his successor, Santana Lopes, the worst government we had since the revolution.
The position of the Portuguese Socialist Party is against software patents. Let's hope that being in the Government doesn't make them change their minds.
If I can recall, we only needed one country to make the switch to block this whole patent process again. Portugal may be it.
I don't know why people keep saying this, it's so obviously bollocks. The Parliament Act takes years to invoke; it is no good for emergencies. The Lords are supposed to be an amending house, not one that takes decisions; the Parliament Act is there for when it starts acting like no more than the voice of the British upper classes against the will of the people.
The purpose of the Parliament Act has always been to ensure that the Lords cannot frustrate the will of the Commons altogether when they have really set their heart on something, and that's exactly what it was used for.
Wikipedia on the Parliament Act
Xenu loves you!
The socialist party withdrew definitively their support for the current directive last week.
. asp?Mode=2&Art icleID=27184
The directive no longer have a majority support in the parliarment, and so the government has no mandate to vote in favour of the directive.
This means that even if the directive appears as an A-item, it must be blocked.
In danish (sorry - I have no english equivalent):
http://www.computerworld.dk/default
...and the guy *is* incompetent. So much so that he *ran* for cover leaving his second-in-command to take the historical beating their party got at the national legistlative elections.
:P) ...And now he "runs" the comission... there is no justice...
It was the greatest turn-around in public support in the shortest time in the history of democracy in portugal (which, admitidly, is rather short at 31 years
The EU is still basically an inter-governmental entity. Parliament has a consultative more than decisionmaking role - it can shame the commission into acting or not acting, but it can't force it.
It's a bit as if the US president were elected by the state governments and had some legislative power as well.
Several bodies are involved in EU decisions:
There are several other bodies, but these are the main to know.
The decision process itself is quite complex. Actually, it is the decision processes, as there are over 30 of them. The things to pinpoints are:
As such, to answer your question: I'm not sure the EP was not supposed to give its opinion on the topic in the first place. And if so, there are so many ways to bypass the EP that the EC can safely go its way without taking it in account.
I'd personally compare the European politicians to those of a banana republic. The thing that shocks me the most is not so much that the EC ignores the EP -- since they've more or less the right to do so. Rather, it is the display of arrogance. It is becoming more or less common practice in the EU to make voters return to the ballots as many times as it takes for them to get the answer right.
I have a better solution. Require an exponentially-growing maintenance fee to keep patents and copyrights out of the public domain. Companies with valuable "intellectual property" can keep them as long as the fee is less than the expected benefit.
Fees should be higher and grow faster for patents than copyrights, since they're more exclusive. Eventually, the fee will be ridiculously expensive (but it's all relative), and the work will be allowed to enter the public domain where it belongs.
Copyrights should start with a free period of automatic copyright protection without registration, but require registration and fees after a year (or several) for continued protection. Modest copyright terms should be affordable to all, while excessive terms will eventually be prohibitively expensive to everyone.
This would be a fair system. The public would be increasingly compensated for the sacrifice it makes to honor the exclusive rights, while abandoned works would enter the public domain far more quickly.
Meanwhile, it would provide another revenue stream for the government that doesn't involve arbitrary taxes. Only those who feel it's in their best interest to maintain the protections would pay these fees. With "intellectual properties" that are worth hundreds of millions to billions of dollars, this could be a substantial revenue stream indeed.
Such a system would truly be in the public interest, but the content industry would abhor such a reform -- they're too used to the free ride they've had so long at the public's expense...
Deven
"Simple things should be simple, and complex things should be possible." - Alan Kay
Sure, democracy is way better than some of the alternatives, but not everything should be decided by a popularity contest.
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.