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An Engineer's View of Carly Fiorina's Leadership

prostoalex writes "There is a pretty damning look at Carly Fiorina's leadership while at HP on TechnologyReview.com. The author was working for HP Labs, the center of invention and innovation for the company, only to be told that nothing exciting will happen in the tech market since it's a mature industry. He left the company in 2003. "The lab was never packed with genius marketers. Carly told us we had no business sense, and that every project needed to make a profit within three years or less. She usually said that right before the research budget got slashed again and more lab employees were laid off."" Update: 03/19 03:13 GMT by Z : As detailed on the TechnologyReview page, they have retracted the story on the grounds that they can no longer vouch for it.

121 of 627 comments (clear)

  1. Kill Innovation by SpaceLifeForm · · Score: 4, Funny
    Now, what Forces Of Evil (FOE) would want to do that?

    --
    You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.
  2. Does this suprise anyone? by Nimrangul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Honestly, does this kind of leadership at HP suprise anyone? With the constant garbage they produce and botch-up dealings they make this just explains matters. Alpha anyone?

    --
    I'm sick of following my dreams - I'm just going to ask them where they're going and hook up with them later.
    1. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by BWJones · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Alpha anyone?

      Alpha? Jeez, what about buying Compaq? Killing Alpha was just part of that whole unbelievable financial screw up. What about when HP cancelled their calculator line? What about getting out of and back into the storage business? What about not paying enough attention to digital imaging when it was exploding? They've got some good consumer level print stuff now, but they are still missing the pro level stuff. What about not capitalizing on HP IP? Jeez, they are buying everybody elses cameras and iPod clones and such. What happened to all of HP's technology?

      --
      Visit Jonesblog and say hello.
    2. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by Nimrangul · · Score: 3, Insightful
      The idea of the massive scalability of the processors is what made them the fucking bomb, if they had been properly developed under HP's ownership 64 of these suckers would have been very impressive indeed.

      Unfortunately, HP just spent money on buying something to let it die, like everything about Compaq and VAX, for as you can see Tru64 is doing really well with HP's massive backing.

      I wasn't referring to the stupidity of letting a good architecture wither, I was talking about buying it to let it wither.

      --
      I'm sick of following my dreams - I'm just going to ask them where they're going and hook up with them later.
    3. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by Mr.+Droopy+Drawers · · Score: 2, Informative

      Ms. Fiorina's exit package was pegged at $21 Million.

      --

      To Copy from One is Plagiarism; To Copy from Many is Research.

    4. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by ezberry · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I totally agree with you, but just for argument's sake... Dell doesn't really do an awful lot of innovating either. They resell almost everything they sell and don't do an awful lot of r&d by themselves, but Dell has a market cap > $100 billion, and hpq is not quite $60 billion... so it just goes to show that innovation does not a successful company make. They seem to be competing on two different fronts against the juggernauts in each industry - IBM in innovation and high end servers, and Dell in lower-end resale of conumer and entry-level business products, and are having an identity crises, so they're losing in both segments.

    5. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by Master+Bait · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I just noticed today that Acer (of Taiwan) has become the 4th largest computer maker in the world.

      --
      "Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
      --Tom Schulman
    6. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by secolactico · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sometimes I wonder why bigshot CEOs and other execs get such substantial packages after leaving a company in disgrace.

      Then I think that maybe they are simply being bought out to act as scapegoat for somebody else or a group of somebody elses. As CEO, they are perhaps the most visible person in a company and they are natural lightning rods for company's bigger blunders.

      This is not to say that Ms Fiorina is not responsible for HP's woes, but maybe, like in Douglas Adams' book, the job of the president is to draw attention away from those who wield the real power.

      (I almost typed "draw aggro". Curse you, Warcraft!)

      --
      No sig
    7. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by inode_buddha · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Remember, HP got the Alpha by way of Compaq, but AMD got the Alpha engineers. Pure irony in some ways, IMHO.

      --
      C|N>K
    8. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by sunwukong · · Score: 3, Informative

      People here have a very limited view of compensation -- the total value of her exit package is $45 Million .

    9. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by SageMusings · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, and don't forget, She is now being considered to head the World Bank by none other than George Dub'ya.

      She is still some sort of darling super woman to the entire population and represents empowerment to women everywhere. She is a celebrity. No one cares about her performance.

      --
      -- Posted from my parent's basement
    10. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by cluckshot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Lets be clear, if this $45 million had been chopped into nice neat (average) $250,000 packages to pay house and supply R&D types they would have been able to hire some 180 researchers in a well funded R&D team. Of course the company would rather pay her...

      The reality is that this is what is the matter with the whole of US Corporate America. The CEO's who do little or nothing but talk themselves up get the rewards and inventive types get walked down the hall. The reason for this is a simple little bit of US TAX policy which these CEO types demanded and got passed. It seems that the more money you earn for the company the more taxes they must pay or they will have to move the job off shore to avoid the taxes as Ms C. did. Of course if you make any money, you had best sop it up into CEO pay rather than pay stockholders because of US Tax law as well. This is why US CEO's act like companies are their own private cookie jar.

      Don't give me any replies claiming that this is Capitalism. It isn't! Capitalism pays its investors. This is Faschism in its purest form. Mods get a life if you disagree because this has everything to do with the sort of thinking that destroys money and not what makes money.

      --
      Never Politically Correct ~ I prefer the facts If you don't like what I say, get a life, or comment yourself.
    11. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by slam+smith · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's rarely a good idea to ask the fox to guard the hen house. It's fairly typical for CEO's to serve on the boards of different companies. So they "scratch" each others back.

    12. Re:Does this suprise anyone? by Matje · · Score: 2, Insightful

      you're missing the point. dell innovates on the marketing, sales & logistics front. Selling PC boxes is a logistical problem, not a technical one. You should compare dell with a supermarket like Walmart. Saying that Dell doesn't do a lot of R&D itself is like noting Walmart doesn't design and produce everything it sells. well duh.

      of course someone needs to design the products that are sold by Dell (and Walmart, for that matter), but that's not dell's function. it is more sensible for them to let others take the design risk, and simply make money reselling the succesful designs.

  3. And she want's to run the World Bank!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "nothing exciting will happen in the tech market since it's a mature industry"

    So is that it with the planet then? "I'm sorry, the planet is mature, nothing more will happen, history has ended. Please make your way in an orderly fashion to the exits..."

    What a boring woman!

    1. Re:And she want's to run the World Bank!? by dago · · Score: 4, Funny

      ... or run the US Patent & Trademark Office ?

      Ref. "Everything that can be invented has been invented." (Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899)

      --
      #include "coucou.h"
  4. Fiorina's comeback: World Bank? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is some talk about her running the World Bank.

    http://money.cnn.com/2005/03/01/news/international /worldbank_wolfowitz/?cnn=yes

    1. Re:Fiorina's comeback: World Bank? by cmowire · · Score: 5, Funny

      I bet that'll make the anti-globilization folks happy. They've been wanting something to happen to the world bank. :)

    2. Re:Fiorina's comeback: World Bank? by multiplexo · · Score: 5, Funny
      I bet that'll make the anti-globilization folks happy. They've been wanting something to happen to the world bank. :)

      I wonder if we could get Carly to take over Al Qaeda, in three years goodbye threat of terrorism, and I'd imagine that when you leave Al Qaeda you don't get a 20 million dollar severance package, probably just a bullet in the head and a shallow grave somewhere in the Afghanistan plains.

      --
      cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
    3. Re:Fiorina's comeback: World Bank? by DarkSarin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      You know, interestingly enough, even though I don't have much against globalization, I still hate the world bank! Amazing, huh?

      Globalization, short of virtually every gov't in the WORLD passing laws against multinational corporations, WILL happen. It is inevitable. At some point, governments will do the same thing (EU, perhaps), and eventually, someone will find a way to create a TRULY effective multinational gov't.

      The US was an attempt at such. The concept was largely independent states united in an effort to protect themselves from more powerful enemies, such as (at the time) England. Originally (as I understand it), the concept was for states to retain most of the power, but the fed to have power for defense against foreign powers, and to make sure that no state did anything to violate the constitution.

      How far we have strayed...

      --
      "We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
    4. Re:Fiorina's comeback: World Bank? by Bush+Pig · · Score: 2, Informative

      They're not exactly the same thing. In fact the two organisations seem to dislike and distrust each other. I have a book called "Globalization and its Discontents" by Stiglitz, the former chief economist of the World Bank, in which the author blames the IMF for all the bad stuff ("It wasn't us, it was them!"). It's interesting, but its dominant tone is one of self-justification. Still, I think you're right, if Ms Fiorina gets her claws on one, it'll bring the other down as well.

      --
      What a long, strange trip it's been.
  5. Seems like this backfired... by Nuclear+Elephant · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In mid-2002, HP's labs became solely focused on finding ways for other businesses to save money.

    Seems like this kind of backfired on HP's "We re-did NASA" marketing campaign, shortly before the Columbia crash.

  6. I had no idea she was that disliked by jerkychew · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Check out the sidebar to that article, printed back in February. You know you're doing a bad job if your ex-employees open champagne upon hearing of your leaving. Wow.

    1. Re:I had no idea she was that disliked by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >You know you're doing a bad job if your
      >ex-employees open champagne upon hearing
      >of your leaving. Wow.

      I'm sure the gigantic KA-CHING! of a cash register ringing up her severance package drowned out the cork popping. The first rule of bad management: If someone in the company hates you, they're a "disgruntled employee". I'd suspect Carly dearest subscribed to that notion with a vengeance.

      At the time I was an EDS employee on an HP contract; I saw similar (though more subdued) celebration when EDS's Dick Brown left, with sincere hopes that Carly would be next. As is was, the contract left before she did. No matter, I still got a good laugh out of it when she finally took the door.

    2. Re:I had no idea she was that disliked by SunFan · · Score: 4, Funny


      I bet IBM, Sun, and Dell all celebrated, too, seeing HP go down the tubes. What are HP going to do, now? Somehow hire back all the people who knew everything?

      I think HP should buy Infinium Labs and go into the game console business. Put an Itanium in them and sell them also as bathroom space heater entertainment center combo units. Bonus points if they put a toilet paper roll holder on top and put an Elmo spin brush in the box.

      --
      -- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
    3. Re:I had no idea she was that disliked by killjoe · · Score: 5, Funny

      Where I work they buy the worst toilet paper in the world to save money. This stuff is like sandpaper. Mind you this is a company worth around a billion dollars.

      So don't make fun of providing toilet paper, especially if it's nice and soft. Hell I'd switch companies if somebody offered me the same pay but better toilet paper.

      --
      evil is as evil does
  7. more D than R by Wansu · · Score: 5, Insightful


    To me, this rabid fixation on short-term profits is a bigger threat than outsourcing -- it is killing our ability to make astonishing things.

    This has been the case with many companies since the mid 80s. Their R & D is alot more D than R. Many of the most admired technology companies of the 60s, 70s and 80s are gone because they ate their seed corn.

    The rabid fixation with short term profits is a problem cut from the same cloth as outsourcing.

    --
    Wansu, th' chinese sailor
    1. Re:more D than R by EnronHaliburton2004 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      stole alot of industries away from us are in it for the long term

      They didn't "steal" anything. It's a free market. If a Japanese produces a better product then an American company, it's not stealing.

      So either play the game, or look to change the game, but either way quit whining.

    2. Re:more D than R by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "To me, this rabid fixation on short-term profits is a bigger threat than outsourcing -- it is killing our ability to make astonishing things."

      Actually, they are related. HP and similar companies are moving their R&D to low-wage countries and getting the same research for less money. Experts are far cheaper there and the laws of physics are the same. Thus, it is cheaper to research say new printing technologies there.

      What is going to be more cost-effect and productive: A lab of 50 PhD's in the US or a lab of 200 PhD's for the same price in India or Indonesia? And, they don't need to be "close to the customer" because they are researching physical processes, not customer preference.

      The US is becoming a big ball of marketing while the "real" work is done in low-wage countries. If you are a true-blue geek who wants to do cutting edge stuff and don't have a family, then try to move overseas. The rest of us better pick up some Dale Carnegie.

    3. Re:more D than R by cgenman · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's funny, but having grown up in the 80's and having matured into computing in the 90's, by then HP had already started to fade. Their computers were notoriously crash-prone, their inkjet printers were slow, and their calculators seemed badly out of date compared to the very user-friendly TI stuff (I know about the power of the HP, no need for a flame war). And since then they've only gotten worse. My entire impression of HP, for my entire life, has been negative.

      It's really kind of heartening to think back to what HP had done, and why so many companies and people still foolishly hold it in high regard. They really were a tech powerhouse in the 70's and early 80's, before they started rebranding iPods with the slogan "Invent." People gave HP a break for a very long time because they had built up a degree of cred, cred which they have been shamelessly squandering for many years.

      But people still care about them. It's kind of heartening that way. Like thinking about your Grandfather when he was young, energetic, and happy, rather than the grumpy, senile jerk he has become.

    4. Re:more D than R by Coryoth · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A lot of Japanese companies try and have a 10 year outlook. Yes, they worry about profits in the short term - it still matters - but they also try to have a long term 10 year plan, and are willing to take short term lack of growth if it positions them better in their 10 year plan.

      Want a really odd example? Consider "Hello Kitty". It's a silly fad right? Except they've actually been around, continuously, producing "Hello Kitty" products for over 30 years! That's some surprising staying power, and is in a large part due to long term planning to keep the brand relevant in a changing world. Were a similar operation being run by a current US CEO it would have unbelievable growth for 3 quarters, saturate the market, fall out of favour, and be dead 2 years.

      Never underestimate the power of long term planning.

      Jedidiah.

    5. Re:more D than R by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, they are related. HP and similar companies are moving their R&D to low-wage countries and getting the same research for less money. Experts are far cheaper there and the laws of physics are the same. Thus, it is cheaper to research say new printing technologies there.

      The problem there is that you end up training a bunch of tech leaders in some other country who then found companies and brutalize us in the marketplace. You get what you pay for.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    6. Re:more D than R by dustmite · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's basically a modern get-rich-quick scheme for CEOs and shareholders etc. Get in, cut out any costs that only pay off in the long-term (i.e. R&D), report increased profits, pay out huge bonuses, get out. Company may collapse or suffer badly afterwards, possibly putting thousands out of work, but you don't care because you retired a billionaire. It's become a kind of plague on western economies during the last few decades. These people are just "cashing in" on the efforts of their predecessors. The problem is most CEOs are not going to be around long enough to reap the rewards of the R&D being spent now, and they know it, so there is no incentive for them personally to manage the company well. In the "old days" this wasn't such a problem because the culture was somehow different, you just didn't do that, you thought about the long-term; the trend of bonuses paid out proportionally to 'performance' seemed to cause a kind of cultural shift in the way people think about running companies. CEOs are paid far more disproportionately now, siphoning off massive amounts of wealth from the economy .. most ordinary "middle-class" workers today can't afford to live as well as their parents did even when both husband and wife work, unlike their parents when probably only the man worked .. why is this? Because more of the wealth is taken by the few at the top, and the economy runs less efficient. In theory Darwin should sort this out, i.e. companies that invest in R&D should have greater survivability in the long term, but for now it seems this problem is just not going away.

    7. Re:more D than R by Psychopundit · · Score: 5, Funny

      I fail to see how Hello Kitty is relevant to this world. In fact, the prospect of it ever becoming so is truly frightening.

    8. Re:more D than R by Khalid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It's basically a modern get-rich-quick scheme for CEOs and shareholders etc. Get in, cut out any costs that only pay off in the long-term (i.e. R&D), report increased profits, pay out huge bonuses, get out. Company may collapse or suffer badly afterwards, possibly putting thousands out of work

      In fact, most of the time this is pension funds fault which owns much of the corporations today; they are asking companies unreasonable return on investment, about 10%, or even 15% or 20% sometimes, this is completly crazy ! trees don't grow to to the sky as they say. To make such huge profits, CEO are obliged to offshore all what can be offshored, cut their workforce and especially their R&D.

    9. Re:more D than R by ArhcAngel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And here is where the problem of solving problems lies! You now have 200PhD's solving the problem from THEIR perspective. You ever noticed several people will look at a problem and each one of them will come up with a different, sometimes conflicting, solution? Have you ever had a conversation with someone who believed something so totally absurd to you but to them it was completely rational? Some of the greatest inventions of the last century were complete accident/mistakes that came about because someone was thinking outside the box and dared to try and achieve something great. They may not have achieved what they were hoping for but their inventions changed the world nonetheless. The majority of these off shored PhD's are wrote scientists. They follow the path already etched out for them and ever so slowly etch a little bit more. There is nothing wrong with this approach but it will rarely achieve the kind of breakthrough wanton reckless abandon to scientific principles will achieve in the same amount of time. Hewlett & Packard were tinkerers who thought big and were also smart enough to start their own company. Carly didn't start the process of spinning off hp's true core business unit (now Agilent Technologies http://www.home.agilent.com/) but she did let it happen. For anything to really last there has to be a balance of PR/R&D/BST (Blood Sweat & Tears). She tried to rob Peter (R&D) to pay Paul (PR) and it caught up with her.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    10. Re:more D than R by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The majority of these off shored PhD's are wrote scientists. They follow the path already etched out for them and ever so slowly etch a little bit more. There is nothing wrong with this approach but it will rarely achieve the kind of breakthrough wanton reckless abandon to scientific principles will achieve in the same amount of time.

      "Only Americans can innovate" is probably a dangerous stereotype. I have not seen any clear evidence of that. Japan has one of the stodgiest cultures around, and their huge economy relies heavily on cutting edge technology.

      If managers encourage and reward high stakes thinking, the employees will respond. Besides, if you have ever been to Vegas you will realize that Asians love to gamble.

    11. Re:more D than R by dustmite · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You make it sound like CEOs are forced/pressured to increase profits for the benefits of others. Then how do you explain that it is the executives who are increasingly benefitting personally? Google for "Historical Trends in Executive Compensation": "Soaring executive compensation during the past two decades ..."; "In the early 1940s, average executive salaries fell by 25 percent"; "The real value of CEO compensation grew at 8.4 percent per year during from 1980 to 1994"; "The compensation of the top 100 CEO listed in Forbes's annual survey on executive compensation was 59 times larger than the average production worker in 1979 but 311 times larger by 1999".

      Executive compensation has shot through the roof in just the last two decades. This money is not going to pension funds, and has nothing to do with them, this is basically money going directly to the personal bank accounts of the executives. If CEOs were obliged as you say to deliver increasingly greater returns to the pension fund, there would be downward pressure on their personal compensation packages. The opposite is true.

    12. Re:more D than R by INetUser · · Score: 3, Insightful
      . . . . HP and similar companies are moving their R&D to low-wage countries and getting the same research for less money.

      No, I think that they are thinking that they are getting the same research for less money. I don't believe that they are getting the same thing.

    13. Re:more D than R by EnronHaliburton2004 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's morally unacceptable about one business competing with other businesses.

      American companies have been doing it to businesses in other countries for years. Now that it's happening to you, you start whining.

    14. Re:more D than R by dnoyeb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Did you know that Japanese employees tend to stay with the same company their whole life? And that the management you see at the top is usually old because they _worked_ their way to it from within the same company.

      So they don't have an issue with loosing their braintrust.

      Japanese auto industry is going to roar back with a vengence and kick the living shit out of us within 10 years. And Korea, and China, and dare i say Europe...

    15. Re:more D than R by nelsonal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I work for a pension fund and know people at mutual funds and the grand parent is more right than wrong. We (the entire investment community) pretty much expects an investment to grow equity at about 15% annually (it generally has to be faster than the S&P). The reason executive compensation has soared over the last several decades is that the few people who have consistently shown the ability to do this (keep their company on a growth rate of 10% annually) are well worth the money they are paid. However, they are exceedingly rare and you do not want to loose one once it is established that they can do this. Imagine the market impacts if a Jack Welch had been hired away from GE in 1999 to say Honeywell because he was peeved that GE didn't pay him enough. So the practice has become over pay (as if they were a top performer) for a few years while a CEO establishes a record, if they are a performer your investment is golden if they are not fire them and try again. It's a lot like a lottery with tickets that cost a small fortune (but with even bigger payouts--a decent sized company that becomes a consistent returner of 15% over two decades will probably be worth about times what you bought it for (starting at say $1 billion and going to $60 billion--to the big investors in the company paying a CEO even $25-50 million per year is pretty small potatoes, if he can maintain that performance and sell the ability of the comapny to keep up with that hurdle for 20 years or so. Once they have failed they are replaced with the next person. I don't think it is right or fair, but from the viewpoint of the large investors it is more rational.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    16. Re:more D than R by Mycroft_VIII · · Score: 2, Informative

      What makes you think it's a zero sum game?
      Usually economics are not a zero sum game and I doubt it is in this case.

      Mycroft

      --
      https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
    17. Re:more D than R by nelsonal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll agree that boards are not what they should be, and think that most of that arises from two big factors, index funds and the current size of companies. Index funds are big investors and they could care less how any company they own performs, as a result they are usually the largest investors in big companies (no one else has the money to be that big an investor in GE, Citi etc) and they vote based on what ISS (a CYA consulting firm) tells them to vote. A rather relevant case is the HP Compaq merger ISS came out in approval giving about 9% of the ownership of HP to managment.
      Also a corporate raider generally cannot buy enough of a big company (say over $10 billion in market cap) to elect his board and change the company's course. While Gordon Gecko is reviled as a worst case guy, someone like him would have bought up HP years ago and sent Carly packing if it were a $6 billion company rather than a $60 billion company.
      Hopefully, once the boomers (who blindly believe that domestic large cap equities excess returns will cover their almost total lack of savings) retire and pull money out of the market, I expect that valuations between public and private firms will become much closer and a decent number of public firms will go private. The problem with cozy boards is that the directors are not generally large stockholders (who they are supposed to represent) the directorship of a company should include large shareholders rather than people who get a few thousand shares granted them annuall (and probably sell them pretty quickly). The tricky part is that what benefits the large shareholders may not benefit smaller shareholders. That balance is a whole lot easier to manage than the current managment shareholder balance that has consistently shifted in favor of managment for many years.

      --
      Degaussing scares the bad magnetism out of the monitor and fills it with good karma.
    18. Re:more D than R by HungWeiLo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Japanese auto industry is going to roar back with a vengence and kick the living shit out of us within 10 years. And Korea, and China, and dare i say Europe...

      They already have. Toyota has surpassed Ford to be the #2 automaker in the US.

      --
      There are a huge number of yeast infections in this county. Probably because we're downriver from the bread factory.
    19. Re:more D than R by ramblin+billy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I believe the problem runs much deeper. The fault lies in the ascendance of the belief that accounting should be the overriding system in the control and evaluation of businesses. When individuals far removed from the actual activity of the business make decisions, especially strategic decisions, they always use "the numbers" to inform those decisions. This results in those decisions being more about the accounting of the business than the business itself. Accountants don't create companies. Engineers, inventors, and dreamers create companies. The problem is that a successful company will almost always reach a point that requires a large capital influx to move to the next level. At this point the financial establishment creates points of influence and control in the company's management. Before long the people running the business have almost no relation to the business being done. They do not deal in real things - a product you can hold in your hand or a person you can look in the eye - but instead in symbols - numbers. You don't 'down size' a person, you 'down size' a number. The focus is on the numbers not the real products that motivated the public to give the company their money in the first place.

      So now the upper management of the company has a different agenda. Their priorities place the welfare of the business, its employees, and its products below the welfare of their actual employers, the investors. The founder of the business may still be around, but now he is President, subordinate to the Board, the CEO, maybe even the CFO. None of these people are in the business of whatever the company actually does, they are in the business of making money. Specifically, using the business to make money for the investors. Money, especially the imaginary money of 'creative capitalization', is nothing if not portable and the ability to move money quickly results in a 'what have you done for me lately' mind set. Thus the investors are not interested in the long term health of the company, the lives of its employees, and its contribution to society. These issues are addressed only when it threatens the bottom line, otherwise, its better for the 'numbers' to buy time with the marketing department, cut costs by 'down sizing', or reduce product costs. Any employees not directly necessary to create revenue - r/d, customer service, positions with cheaper outsourced alternatives - become part of a number, the cost of doing business. In the world of accounting, people are not being laid off, research is not being abandoned, and jobs are not being removed from the economy. Costs are being 'down sized.' If the company fails, so what? If the industry fails, so what? It's not like management is really IN the IT(or whatever) business. They're in the money business. There's plenty of companies they can make money from - one way or another. That's why no one even questions that the CEO of a technology company is qualified to run the WB. Upper management knows THEY'RE going to be paid despite the empty pension fund, bankrupt accounts, and long line of creditors. They know because the people who pay them are also in the money business. And that's just the way it works. Don't believe it?...run the numbers.

      billy - just cause it's my job doesn't make it right

  8. Dominatrix by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny
    I'd love to have Carly as my personal dominatrix, though.

    Crack that whip on my pale white ass, make me lick your boots and worship your holiest of holys. Let me be your sex slave!

  9. Anyone else find it funny... by The+Hobo · · Score: 4, Funny

    That at the top of the page, an ad for HP shows up?

    --
    There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
    1. Re:Anyone else find it funny... by ogonek · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, that's funny. I didn't know there were people left who don't use ad-blockers!

  10. No one cares... by Atomic+Frog · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...all they want is money. Look, Carly got something like a $20million package (maybe more)for getting fired. Would _you_ care if you knew that's what you would get for screwing up?
    Possibly, if that mucked up your reputation. But inexplicably, IT DOESN'T. Rumors are she's on the shortlist to head the World Bank? WTF???

    Nobody on the board of directors (board of fat cats more like it) really cares either. Or possibly they are impossibly dumb.

    Look, how many of the "frontline troops" could tell you that the Compaq-HP merger wasn't any good and would amount to not much?

    Unfortunately, it isn't just HP. It's nearly every CEO and board of directors.
    Hands up those of you on Slashdot who _knew_ the AOL-Time Warner was going to be bust? Yes, those of us in the field and half a teaspoon of wit knew that didn't make sense and was doomed to disaster. Yet the supposedly "wise and experienced" board didn't see it coming?

    Fact is, these stupid maneuvers are are win-win-win for the board, CEO's and the stock analysts. They don't give a damn what happens to the company.

    Now Mr. Hewlett and Packard, they wouldn't pull this sort of shit because it was their own baby.
    Founder of IBM had some pretty good rules too, they treated customers and employees _right_. But since he went, it's been all downhill (except for profits).

    1. Re:No one cares... by Alomex · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This was a clear case of playing the "affirmative action"

      Bulls**t. When she was hired at HP she had seemingly done a good job at Lucent and clearly deserved a shot at the position.

      Turns out she was a fraud, but so were Kenneth Lay from ENRON and Bernard Ebbers from WorldCom, and last time I checked those are males. So do us a favor and take your sexist crap elsewhere.

    2. Re:No one cares... by CarrionBird · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If by good job you mean gutting the company, then sure!

      --
      Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
    3. Re:No one cares... by cgenman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In defense of AOL-Time Warner, If I were a traditional media bigwig and I had heard about upstart technology companies making billions (in investor dollars), an industry that was going to take over and destroy the traditional media, and I had no experience or knowledge of what they were talking about, I'd get a little scared and do something stupid too. AOL, on the other hand, probably knew they were lucking out and cashed the heck in.

      Now, it can certainly be argued that if someone is on the board of directors of a company that is about to approve such a foolish thing they're getting paid well to know about the technology etc. But few executives actually go down to the floor of their companies anymore, and more and more are losing the pulse of what is going on. They just "don't have time" to get a clue.

      CEO payoffs are rediculous. Carly was got roughly 3 million in salary last year. While in my mind a reasonable company would put this closer to 400k or less, 3 million is too high but not insane. But a 20 million payoff plus 20 million in additional benefits for running a company into the ground? That's 8 million dollars per year she was there. Giving a year's salary to help someone have time to find another job seems reasonable and just, but giving them 10 years of an already far-too-high salary for getting fired?

      All of this stands in stark contrast to what they're telling the people on the front lines. Carly's 3 million dollar salary would pay for 30 great engineers. Her giant golden parachute stands in direct contrast to the treatment of the workers HP laid off. How many of them got 10 years worth of salary? Or legal, financial, career counseling, a secratary, health insurance, a 200,000k dollar per year pension (after 5 years of service)? Or even got to keep their computer?

      Of course, if it was an HP computer it might not be worth keeping. But the point is that many CEO's have lost the ability to think about troop morale in any context, and certainly in the context of getting laid off. It's hard for people to hear that we need to cut corners from a person whose income is 95% disposable.

      It might be worth it for a big company to put out giant per year salaries to lure great CEO's to the top slot. But so far that strategy seems to have failed miserably.

    4. Re:No one cares... by virtual_mps · · Score: 5, Funny
      Bulls**t. When she was hired at HP she had seemingly done a good job at Lucent and clearly deserved a shot at the position.

      Yeah, she did great things for lucent. They might even recover someday.
    5. Re:No one cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually, she was a third stringer. The real contenders for CEO had, unfortunately, followed the money and signed on to more lucative ventures elsewhere.

      It was always about Carly marketing herself. She had no experience actually running anything even remotely like HP. When she took over it wasn't the HP brand she promoted but the Carly brand. It was, Carly, Carly, Carly. The cult of Carly. Always Carly. Just go back and look at those ads that made it on the air.

      Shortly after Carly took over she asked everyone to make a sacrifice that amounted to a 20% pay cut. Bill and Dave used to ask us to do that too. They asked for everyone (including them) to hurt a little so nobody hurt a lot (i.e., losing their job). Less than a week after folks made their sacrifices Carly cut loose with the first ever HP layoff.

      It was particularly nasty. An outside firm was hired to make sure that the correct percentage of men, women, older, younger, ethnic, etc. workers were let go so that the company wouldn't be accused of descrimination. It had nothing to do with job performance. Smack. That did wonders to morale.

      (Drive-by) layoffs continued almost daily for three years. During this time Carly found it necessary to buy three Gulfstream V's which cost about USD 45M each. Her husband had to be given a job just down the hall. What did he do? Wrote her speeches I guess. Smack. Morale sinks a bit more.

      Just when we figured it couldn't get worse Carly, after two previous failed attempts, decided that a merger was needed. And Michael Cappellas was a willing and very good salesman. Walter Hewlett warned of disaster and put up USD 20M of his own money to stop it. Carly spent about double that of HPs money to ram it through. At the last minute she forced the proxy vote to stay open just a little longer so Deutschbank could get their tipping point vote in. A few months later they got a lucrative contract with the newly merged HP.

      Carly used to spend weeks "spinning" the quarterly numbers to find just the right pro-forma nuance to misdirect Wall Street from her blunders. When they started to catch on she would respond with "that was last weeks ballgame, we're on a new plan."

      Personally, I'm glad she's gone. And her husband too. Both were nasty to the "hired help. So happy were the employees that she was gone that the most popular email subject heading announcing her departure ran something along the lines of "Ding, dong, the wicked witch. Ding, dong, the wicked witch is dead."

      As a footnote: Carly "gave" everyone in HP a "reinvention" option grant of 100 shares. Those options vest this summer. The option price is about USD 60. Why I could lose USD 4000 if I actually decided to exercise those options.

    6. Re:No one cares... by justins · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Yeah, she did great things for lucent. They might even recover someday.

      Chilling. This means she had a key role in the sinking of two of the great American private research institutions.

      Let's send her to IBM next. I am sure she can accomplish great things there.
      --
      Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
  11. Remember Palmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The rot started long before Carly with Robert Palmer's "leadership" of Digital. Having come from the semiconductor side of the house, it was amazing what he failed to do with Alpha.

    Not to mention the unholy tieup with Microsoft - anyone else remember the corporate switch from VAXmail/All-In-One to Exchange on his watch? On the world's largest private network, I am sure that helped Microsoft up the corporate ladder...

    1. Re:Remember Palmer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The rot started long before Carly with Robert Palmer's "leadership" of Digital.

      It was all downhill after "Addicted to Love".

    2. Re:Remember Palmer? by sundog61 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      IMO, Palmer's job was to make DEC an attractive take over/merger candidate. In that particular aspect, he was quite successful. ;-(

    3. Re:Remember Palmer? by DenDave · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah.. and lemme guess...



      How can it be permissible
      She compromise my principle, yeah yeah
      That kind of management is mythical
      She's anything but typical

      She's a crazy bitch and smells like a horse, she's a powerful force
      You're obliged to conform when there's no other course
      She used to look good to me, but now I find her
      Simply unemployable, Simply unemployable

      Her style is so powerful, huh
      It's simply unavoidable
      The trend is irreversible
      The woman is incorrigable

      She's a natural flaw, and she leaves me in awe
      She deserves the applause, I surrender because
      She used to look good to me, but now I find her
      Simply unemployable, Simply unemployable



      adapted from simply irresistable

      --
      -if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
  12. Carly's many failures... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm posting anonymously because my father works at HP and I have done some work for them and they continue to be a client of my company.

    Basically Carly's main failure was a total lack of vision. Her main changes were branding and cost-cutting. And in order to cover her major failing, she undertook the merger which would make success impossible to benchmark for about 3 years or so.

    There were also countless re-orgs which also serve to make goals impossible to benchmark. While re-branding HP 'Invent' she did her best to ensure that no actual inventing occured... tying HP closer to Microsoft and pushing the actual inventing to other vendors (the HP iPod anyone?) while trying to eck out a living on those thinner margins by cost-cutting.

    Now most business units are facing a 10% budget cut in order to finance Carly's kiss off. I don't need to say that morale is a huge issue and HP is largely rudderless (after being firmly steered in the wrong direction for so long this may be an improvment though)

    And there is talk of having her run the world bank. I suppose it is typical in the US this day and age to continuously reward failure as long as it's big enough (Bush, Rumsfeld, CIA, Condi etc.) so Carly fits that bill perfectly.

    The whole thing disgusts me really...

    1. Re:Carly's many failures... by Tangurena · · Score: 5, Interesting
      I spent a while at the Colorado Springs facility of HP. The downsizing was ludicrous. Every Friday would be the last day of 5-100 people. Many folks wouldn't even show up to work on Fridays because they didn't want to have to say "good bye." Morale was that low.

      Routinely, the comments on the latest person to be laid off was "this person was the last person who knew how to [some technology or skill here]."

      All because Carly wanted a new bizjet. I guess the ashtrays on the old company jets were full, or the steward/stewardesses were too old/ugly or something. About $50,000,000 each for the new ones. You have to fire a lot of people to raise that sort of cash.

      Carly screwed HP big time. It will take a decade or more to rebuild and replace the desctuction of Her Incompetanceness. But as the above poster pointed out, we in the US only reward liars, crooks and idiots. Performance, skill and knowledge have been designated as enemy combatants and are busy being rounded up and destroyed everywhere.

    2. Re:Carly's many failures... by jmitchel!jmitchel.co · · Score: 2, Informative

      That sounds a lot like when I worked at Lucent during the Fiorina era. It was among the most unreal and disconcerting eras in my life. My little group was actually protected from lay-offs for that whole summer because three tiers (at least) of management structure retired at once. Since head count was viewed as being somewhat less desirable than AIDS the ensuing argument over which organization would be responsible for us kept us off everybody's books for months.

      By the way, can anybody tell me what Lucent does these days? After all the lay-offs, spin-offs and write-offs, I've lost track.

  13. It's worse than he's saying by ewe2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is a damning indictment of the entire industry. And really, if the focus is on software patents, can that be such a shock?

    This is why the US software patent system must never be exported: if they want to nothing but sit on their arses and sue each other, let them. The rest of us have real work to do.

    --
    insecurity asks the wrong question irritation gives the wrong answer
  14. Oh Woe by d0wnr11g3r · · Score: 5, Informative
    HP has really gone downhill, and only picked up speed during the "Carly Years".

    I remember a time when their hardware was second to none, and their software and support were stellar to say the least. I'm serious when I say that I noticed the change in leadership almost as immediately as she took office - and I was just a consumer of their products. Their hardware started going up in price, but failed to move forward. Their software became more bug filled than the Amazon jungle, and their support, well, just stopped existing.

    One of the largest problems I saw was how they produced new versions of some of their software packages, writing Windows versions of packages that used to be strictly HP-UX native and then porting them back to HP-UX...this was at best a dumb idea and at worst resulted in programs advertised as being HP-UX native refusing to operate properly, especially anything with a GUI. Program crashes went from almost non-existant to an almost weekly if not daily occurance.

    To make matters worse the average hold time I spent on the phone went from less than 10 minutes to as much as 4 HOURS. I'm not making this up! And when you finally did get an engineer on the phone they mostly stalled for time because they knew they had no solution to a problem, or had too much to deal with. As we paid for our service agreement we expected to get prompt service and instead were left sitting for days, sometimes weeks while someone tried to resolve the issue, if it could be resolved. Even when told that issues were absolutely mission critical and costing us huge amounts of money and at times lost data due to failure we still did not notice any change in service.

    Like the author, my first calculator was an HP - I remembered being astounded by the ability to graph solutions and solve multi-variable equations. It was one of the first pieces of hardware I learned to program - I wrote a program to switch the in class TV channels back in High School. At one time, before Carly, I even wanted desperately to work for them....I'm glad I didn't.

    How Carly ever got into office on anything but her looks(which weren't much) will forever remain a mystery to me. How she was allowed to stay in her position for more than a few months is something I can only blame on investors not having a finger on the pulse of the company. Maybe HP will recover, but they've lost so much ground in recent years, I really can't see it happening.

    1. Re:Oh Woe by adam872 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I agree with most of what you say, apart from the smart arse remark about her getting the job because of her looks. Carly Fiorina is a very adept saleswoman and *that* is what got her the job at HP. For all her faults, she must have made a significant enough impression with the HP board with her performance at Lucent to be at least considered. In spite of the lefty rantings of many Slashdot pundits, most chief executives are not straight out of Dilbert or Office Space. A good many of them are actually quite intelligent, competent people, who do a very servicable job at the helm of many publicly traded companies.

      We only hear about the dishonest or incompetent ones at the moment because of the shenanigans at organisations like WorldCom, Enron and Tyco. When I look at the CEO's of the companies in which I am invested, I actually feel relatively confident that my investment will continue to grow over time, without smearing their reputation by being investiagted by regulatory authorities.

    2. Re:Oh Woe by adam872 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I stand by my statement about "lefties". A good number of people on Slashdot espouse socialist ideals -- that makes them left leaning, IMHO. Your characterisation of the board room is also completely off base. How is it that when the board and CEO make decisions, that they don't matter? It matters an awful lot in the case of things like M&A, executive compensation, shareholder returns (e.g. share buybacks, dividends) decisions on expanding (or contracting) in certain markets and a host of other strategic decisions. It's like saying that decisions made in the White House, Downing Street or other heads of states offices aren't important to taxpayers.

  15. Re:Why supprised by lukewarmfusion · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm as cynical as the next guy (and then some), but I think your statement lacks consideration. Management isn't dumb by nature; there are a lot of factors that go into making a dumb manager. The Peter Principle, the MBA shortcut, or "connections." Sometimes, though, management consists of brilliant people that not only offer great people and asset management skills, but everything else that goes into a really successful product, service, company, etc.

    Google, Pixar, and Apple - are these companies that succeed despite dumb management?

  16. Google Anybody by timealterer · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Google goes out of its way to spend a significant percentage of its time on technology that is innovative first, that they don't know yet how to make profitable. Google News and just about all the stuff in Google Labs only cost them money, but they're smart enough to think longer term than that.

    --
    - Allen Pike
    Altering time, one time at a time.
    1. Re:Google Anybody by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The difference here is that with Google, the original founders of the company are still in control and thus they have a personal stake in the company (not just financially as its still their "baby"). The other companies that have been mentioned in these discussions, the orginal founders are no longer in control (bit hard to keep control when your dead), and there have been management "drones" put in place. You know the type, completely interchangable between industries because all they care about is the pseudo-science of managment which all boils down to maximise the profits at the end of the quarter. But of course the reason that these management drones can exist is the fact that once a company lists, everything becomes about profit for the quarter. Thus if upper management is just worried about a maximum of 3 months out, all long term thinking/planning is banished as it will most likely have a negative impact on the next quarters results (resulting in a negative impact on the management drones performance -> reduced bonus for them).

  17. Re:Why supprised by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 4, Funny
    Managment are in there nature dumb.

    ...and others are even dumberer.

  18. HP on the 'Bacon Sandwich' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm not too impressed with the way that the food division is heading either.

    Dammit, what about open sauce?

  19. Nope - screw the "new" HP! by King_TJ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The last things I can remember HP doing right were their laser printers with single digit numbers. (EG. Laserjet II, III, 4 series, and even the 6P - which is a teriffic "small office workgroup" type printer.) The old scanners with single digit numbers were equally well-made and respectable (ScanJet 4 and so on).

    But somewhere around the time they decided these products needed numbers in the thousands, quality took a nosedive and then came the parade of garbage "consumer desktop PCs".

    Nowdays, I rarely recommend anything with the HP logo on it. Their inkjets have the most outdated print-nozzle technology out there for photo printing. There's still nothing noteworthy about their Pavillion PC line, and even their laptops seem like they're generally the size of bricks. (Those HP laptops with 17" displays are just HUGE compared to something like an Apple Powerbook 17".)

    1. Re:Nope - screw the "new" HP! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
      I have an HP Pavillion with dual optical drives. The case has a stupid set of plastic door covers over the optical doors to maintain the Pavillion look.

      Of course, then when the doors close, the tolerances are too tight, and the doors jam-lock against each other so neither one can open. Way to go, Carly.

      And this HP, when we bought it, came PRE-LOADED with spyware. We hooked it onto the network and it immediately began downloading WildTangent games and other useless crap against our wishes. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, Carly.

    2. Re:Nope - screw the "new" HP! by Apathetic1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll second that, though I've found the high-end LaserJets are still half-decent. My parents have a LaserJet 8000N that came home from work as a bonus after the customer's contract expired and I have no complaints with it, even after 40K printed pages. I must say the best HP printer I've owned is the LaserJet 4 Plus that the 8000N replaced - it's 11 years old and has a page count of more than 120K and it's still kicking.

      Their consumer grade printers are utter garbage and a nightmare to support; I tell everyone I know who is asking about printers to avoid them like the plague.

      --

      My username does not make me Apathetic. It's irony, get it?

  20. The article does sprout some good stuff by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    The article's rather short with very very little details. It does should like a rant, however, there's probably truth in it.

    He's description of research is pretty accurate:"doesn't have immediate results", "expensive and unpredictable". He is also correct in implying that research is important and often overlooked.

    It's a shame that HP has turned out the way it is. It does really seem that its glory days are over. When Carly departed, it was reported that it's not because of her vision which clashed with the directors, but her execution. So, I suppose, HP is going to be like this in the forseeable future. Something drastic's got to be done.

    A lesson learnt from the article: Do not let someone with no appreciation of tech manage a tech firm.

  21. Article pretty short on content by maynard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But I like this quote:

    "Bill Hewlett used to remind us that "The marketing guys said the HP-35 would be a failure because it was too small, and then we couldn't make them fast enough to meet the demand. The marketing folks don't know everything."

    Because it was too small. Talk about misreading a market. Computing became ubiquitous entirely because of continuing miniaturization. Of course marketers would argue that they've now learned their lesson. They won't make that mistake again! No. They'll make some other ridiculous mistake. Not because they're stupid people, but because they don't understand current technology limitations and how trends imply change upon those limitations. Presumably, those former marketers thought "bigger meant better". Bigger cars were "better", right? They didn't see the potential utility of a pocket calculator, just as some will miss the utility of some other invention or advancement.

    Marketing is fine as a tool for finding products people want. But it's useless for determining if a completely new technology might create or revolutionize a market. See the Dyson vacuum cleaner as another example of marketers misreading how new technology might completely change a mature market. Marketing works best only after the marketers understand a technology and its limitations, in coordination with traditional market analysis. Not prior. --M

    1. Re:Article pretty short on content by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And now HPs calculators from the 70's and 80's sell for hundreds of dollars on EBay, while their current flagship product is a bug ridden POS with a bad keyboard. It's not only a matter of lack of interest at the fundamental R&D level, but a policy of making it as cheaply as possible, regardless of the quality level the market really wants. It is sickening to see the current product, feel the tacky keyboard and the gaudy painted plastic shell that the paint chips off easily and read reports of keypress detection problems, while that 25 year old model has keys that still work perfectly, with no sign of wear on key labels.

      Marketing is fine as a tool for finding products people want. But it's useless for determining if a completely new technology might create or revolutionize a market.

      Marketing is much, much worse than that in a technology driven company because the marketers do not understand even the current products and how they are used.

    2. Re:Article pretty short on content by Alomex · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Bigger cars were "better", right?

      Were? A lot of people still believe that crap. In part this is due to Detroit's misleading statistics that in front impact collisions a larger vehicle is safer. What they fail to tell you is that if you hadn't been in such a large vehicle to start with chances are you would never have been a collision! Smaller cars have much better handling, much shorter break distances and less likelihood of roll over. Just read the stats, for example if you drive an SUV you are much more likely to be involved in a rollover.

    3. Re:Article pretty short on content by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which doesn't much help recurring sales, though.

      I don't know, I bought several of them because I loved the quality and the geekiness of having the latest features. Now I do my calculator shopping on EBay because nobody makes good ones any more. From me personally HP sure doesn't get any recurring anymore sales because their current product is crap. If they came out with something like the 15C again I would be first in line.

      Some of these have some real history behind them. The 41CV's were carried on early Space Shuttle missions to take some load off the on board computers. Sally Ride's is on display at the National Air and Space Museum. My Dad has one with a NASA property tag on it. I can't imagine how much that would draw on EBay.

    4. Re:Article pretty short on content by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But that's not because miniaturization of computing technology has stagnated.

      Miniaturization doesn't have much to do with calculator features/quality. HP even said something like this when they introduced the HP-41 in 1980 - that for calculators miniaturization had advanced enough so they could put whatever they wanted in the calculator. The remaining issues where making it easy for the user to tap that power. That means attention to human factors engineering and software design.

      This plus durability is IMHO why the older calculators are so prized - HP understood that and took the time to get it right. Nowadays you can buy all sorts of calculators with more faetures, including synthetic algebra, etc. But on these modern machines figuring out how to get answers to everyday problems is much harder.

      does not mean that all cheap disposable products are bad

      Yes, there are times when a cheap, disposable product can make sense to both the producer and consumer. Products such as the daily newspaper that by their very nature are ephemeral. But in general I don't think electronics are in that category.

    5. Re:Article pretty short on content by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Still carry'n 'round that PDP-8, eh?

      Eh, gotta love keying in the boot loader from the front panel to get it to load the OS from paper tape. I remember the PDP-11 I used too. Gotta love 12 bit words.

      No, I left the PDP-8 behind when I graduated, but I do have a 6 year old dual Pentium II box in my house that I use for DNS/mail etc. services. It will probably hit 8 before I retire it. I also have a 13 year old (HP) laserprinter, a 15 year old TV, and a pair of 25 year old speakers that I reconed myself in service.

      I went looking for a new laser printer the other day and became kind of PO'ed at the obvious cheapness of current models compared to the one I have. I don't see why it is any benefit whatsover to making a throwaway laser printer. Especially since it's pretty obvious that something made like this is probably not going to even work right when it is new. And the manufacturer is perfectly capable of getting good repeat business through selling cartridges.

      Brain dead if you ask me.

      I'm going back to Ebay now to look at a nice HP-15C they have offered. I hope the bids haven't broken the $300 mark.

  22. Now she's headed for the World Bank... by perrin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    After ruining HP, the Bush administration has suggested her for rui^H^Hnning the World Bank. Read it here. 'Top executives' like herself like to tell us that they need their huge salaries because they take such risks, and if they screw up they are done in the business. Yeah, right. The truth is, it doesn't matter how much they screw up, their own will take care of them anyway.

    1. Re:Now she's headed for the World Bank... by NatteringNabob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is worth pointing out that this isn't Carly's first debacle, she also drove Lucent into the ground. That's a mighty impressive record, destroying not only the company that made the transistor, but also one of the first companies to put it to good use. I think Bush sees alot of himself in Carly. Remember he had two failed business ventures, Spectrum 7 and Harken Energy. Harken bailed him out at Spectrum, and some skillful insider trading netted him a profit out of the second (it's not only good to be a King, being son of a President ain't so bad either).

    2. Re:Now she's headed for the World Bank... by Coryoth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      If I recall rightly HPs market cap went up by 2 billion dollars the day she left. In other words (if we're going to justify everything by share price as many CEOs like Ms. Fiorina do) she was worth negative $2 billion to HP. Do they get to bill her for damage done? Nope, they pay her a nice $20 million leaving bonus. Why would anyone hire someone who managed to decrease a companies worth by $2 billion? I'm at a loss. Her career should be over (and with a $20 million dollar bonus to walk away with, it's not like she'll ever have to work again if she doesn't care to). Bizarre.

      Jedidiah.

  23. Technical Companies Need Technical Leaders! by xtal · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If you don't understand your own products, you are going to suck as a leader. I don't care what the current nonsense is, but that's something I really believe - perhaps it explains the success of lawyers as politicians?

    This is a theme you see in education all the time - you don't need to understand or have a degree in, oh, say physics in order to teach physics. Yeah, right. You can't teach something you don't understand at a fundamental level.

    This goes to show that people with pure business backgrounds are not automatically assumed success in any field. Mr. Hewlett and Packard made wonderful products, by and for engineers. You can see it clear as day in what they produced. I love my HP48 calculator. I own oscilloscopes and function generators made by HP that dates back to the 70's and the gear still works flawlessly and looks great.

    Watch for intel to make the same kind of mistakes - the best leaders for tech companies are those with BOTH business acumen and technical backgrounds.

    Hopefully this Carly FIASCO will scare some brains into those who make the big decisions, but maybe I'm just dreaming. Short term profits, damn the cost!

    --
    ..don't panic
    1. Re:Technical Companies Need Technical Leaders! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sorry, you're wrong. Companies need leaders with a clue. That's it.

      I work for IBM. Lou Gerstner, a hick from some tobacco/foods conglomerate came in and saved our bacon. A lot of the old timers curse his name, we're still settling a lot of pension disputes, but there is no doubt he saved IBM. We are the premier technology company in the world. I work on a project that originated in a research lab. I feel like my company has taken the "Engineering" mantle away from HP, even though we are traditionally led by marketing and salespeople. Yes, even though they are marketing and salespeople, they are people with a clue. Our current CEO, Sam Palmisano said it best "We don't package stuff off the shelf and have the gall to call ourselves technologists".

  24. That'll happen.... by King_TJ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not unlike Hollywood, where actors and actresses live in their own version of reality - pretty far removed from the daily lives most of us have.

    When you earn that type of money, and spend your time around peers that do the same, how can you expect them to see these screw-ups as a "big deal", really? Like you said, it's not their own business, built from the ground up - so they're not coming into things with that background of remembering how tough it was to build it.

    A lot of these big-wig corporate types pander more to such things as a peer "taking a big risk". They're going to say "Carly, that was a really bold move you made, merging with Compaq. Didn't really work out, but that's the type of thinking and attitude we like to see in a C.E.O.! I think we can find a new spot for you over here...."

    In many ways, I think they approach it like gambling. Sure, the rest of us can say "I can't believe that guy just plunked down a million dollars on the roulette table and lost it all. What a moron!" But if he's got the kind of money where that isn't going to put an end to his lifestyle, and his peers are equally rich gamblers, they're just going to cheer him on. They're thinking in the back of their heads that they're "way above" all those naysayers who aren't "successful enough" to even afford to take those types of risks.

  25. Patnets by argoff · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think in a normal world. people would collaberate and fund raise to do RnD - their creations would gain them value and reputation, and that would lead to new opportunities. But we don't live in a normal world, we live in a patent world - a world where companies receive vast rewards for cutting off other companies from new tchnologies. A world where those little inventors (who patents are supposed to help) are premanately locked out.

    Yeah, I know the "party line" that one that says no big companies will invent without patent monopolies, but just look at how many items in the average kitchen were really invented by a big company (hint none). Look at the electricity, phone, the PC, the radio, and so on .... (no big companies). I think if people kicked patents the hell out of they way they'd be supprised what happens. It would free up millions of inventions, to millions more inventors, and create a sunami of economic growth and technology. The fact that inventions can be coppied should be treated like a opportunity, not a threat, or even worse a theft. Patents monopolies (and I mean all of them, not just software) simply half to die and calling them
    intellectual "property" is simply fradulent.

    1. Re:Patnets by psykocrime · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The fact of the matter is that patents are much more important to single inventors of small organizations because without them the big companies would just take their invention, and use it freely without and any compensation to the small inventor.

      The problem with your thesis is that it's too expensive and time-consuming for single inventors or small organizations to get patents. And even if they do invest the time and effort to get a patent, they run the risk of having it invalidated by a previously issued, overly-broad, never-should-have-been-granted patent owned by EvilMegaCorp Inc. The fact of the matter is that patents are much more important to large, powerful corporations, because they can leverage them (patents) and their power and money and lawyers, to squeeze out any single inventors or small organizations that threaten them.

      --
      // TODO: Insert Cool Sig
    2. Re:Patnets by jpc · · Score: 2, Insightful


      Did occur.

      Before legal costs in the US went exponential, and huge cross licensing agreements meant that the big corporations wouldnt sue each other to invalidate patents.

      Times have changed.

      There is almost no point in small companies filing now. Unless you are about to become bankrupt and want some residual assets for vulture lawyers to take up.

  26. cry me a river by philipkd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    First, where's the comparison with the experience at other R&D labs, like Microsoft's.

    Plus, the guy's article runs under the assumption that the R&D Lab is holy and that any attempt to reduce, shape, or in someway modify them is evil.

    This is not necessarily true. Xerox PARC gave us the mouse, the gui, and ethernet. Microsoft's R&D Lab hasn't done much noteworthy yet has a $1 billion+ budget.

    Apple's innovation shouldn't necessarily even be attributed to an R&D Lab. I remember that Apple emphasizes a research-to-product-development cycle. Apples tells its developers precisely that: "these things better turn into products!"

    And this makes simple business sense in some cases. Look at what good those innovations did Xerox. Apple took the GUI and mouse, Microsoft took the GUI from Apple, and 3Com took ethernet.

    This article's the typical kick-her-on-the-way-out story. "Yeah, I didn't like her either! She didn't increase my budget! I don't need to argue anymore."

  27. Slashdot is powerful! by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Funny


    Slashdot is powerful! On Tuesday I complained about Carly Fiorina in a Slashdot comment, and on Wednesday she was fired. (See the 6th paragraph of the comment, and the subsequent comment.)

  28. Re:He's just an angry, old, white man by psykocrime · · Score: 4, Funny

    The Patriarchy will do whatever it can to keep down a smart, sophisticated woman.

    Maybe, but what does that have to do with Carly Fiorina?

    --
    // TODO: Insert Cool Sig
  29. It's about profits, not what the customers want. by JoeCommodore · · Score: 4, Interesting
    It's about profits, not what the customers want

    That seems to sum up the "new HP". Before they were pretty much doing thier own thing making specialized computers, test equipment and some damn fine laser printers.

    Now 2/3 of thier profits come from ink and toner sales, thier systems are very unsupported, I know I just talked to a really friendly techie from India who couldn't answer my problem (I have just discovered are due to thier thier latest BIOS...grrr).

    From what I saw when I booted this machine is that HP is cozying up to any company with money: Microsoft (XP, only XP), Apple (iPod), Symantic, AOL and other services (spyware/adware/Internet/etc). They seem to be using thier PCs hard drive capacity for garnering advertising, tie-in and lock-in revenue.

    Certainly sounds like HP has been reduced to a me-too company, they should expand into the ringtone business, I hear there are big bux there now.

    --
    "Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
  30. President of World Bank by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here are some interesting comments about Carly becoming President of the World Bank.

  31. Re:Patents by psykocrime · · Score: 2, Informative

    Yeah, I know the "party line" that one that says no big companies will invent without patent monopolies, but just look at how many items in the average kitchen were really invented by a big company (hint none). Look at the electricity, phone, the PC, the radio, and so on .... (no big companies). I think if people kicked patents the hell out of they way they'd be supprised what happens. It would free up millions of inventions, to millions more inventors, and create a sunami of economic growth and technology. The fact that inventions can be coppied should be treated like a opportunity, not a threat, or even worse a theft. Patents monopolies (and I mean all of them, not just software) simply half to die and calling them
    intellectual "property" is simply fradulent.


    I wish I had mod points... this deserves to be modded up.

    I just wish more people understood this. Patents do more overall harm to our society than they do good. They now serve to inhibit innovation, rather than to encourage it.

    The best thing we could do, would be to eliminate patents altogether. At the very least, software and "business method" patents should be eliminated.

    --
    // TODO: Insert Cool Sig
  32. Carly's Looks? by yukio · · Score: 5, Funny

    I swear that she and Celine Dion are really one and the same person.

    With about the same abilities in their respective fields.

    --



    To have ambition was my ambition.
  33. [OT] Carol J. Loomis by rifftide · · Score: 2, Interesting
    Someone should do a story on FORTUNE reporter Carol J. Loomis, whose story (subscription required) on HP's performance under Fiorina hit the newstands about a week before Carly was fired.

    Nor was this story remarkable by Loomis' standards. She covered her own corporate employer, AOL Time Warner, for several years and her reports were characterized by withering sarcasm in reviewing their strategies, finances, and internal politics.

    Fiorina may no longer be one of the most powerful women in American business, but Loomis still is.

  34. Carly Fiorina to head the World Bank? by kaalamaadan · · Score: 2, Funny

    Carly Fiorina is the potential chief of the World Bank. So while engineers breathe a sigh of relief, the world at large cowers in fear at the next turn?

  35. "Bash a Failed CEO" Game $39.95 by Sundroid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The most telling paragraph of that piece from TechnologyReview.com is: "Our biggest mistake at HP Labs came from being too cautious. We passed on developing Steve Wozniak's cheap little personal computer. Woz was working in HP's lab, on calculator projects, at the time. We knew the computer idea was great, but we couldn't work out how to market it, so we passed."

    The retired HP engineer undermined his point that "a marketing person should not run a tech company" by admitting that tech guys, including him, are no marketing genius either.

    Tech industry is a cutthroat business, let's face it. Bashing a failed Tech CEO is a popular game these days, that is why a short article like this gets the Slashdot treatment. But, the smarter people are working on weeknights and weekends, at their basements, in their garages, to come up with the next thing, and I bet they do it quietly.

  36. Agilent may prosper by laing · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Fortunately Carly spun off the test and measurement instrument group into "Agilent". They have always produced the best instrumentation in the industry and continue to do so. It's a shame that they've lost the HP name, but they are still a top notch company.

  37. Wasn't very popular by Creamsickle · · Score: 5, Informative

    I worked at HP making drivers and whatnot several years ago. I was there at the time Carly took over until about a year or two afterwards. I can tell you from my experience at HP that she was quite unpopular among the employees, at least around the time I left. A big part of Fiorina getting the axe I am sure is not only because of stock performance, but because she took so much away from the family that was HP and showed nothing positive for it.

    Before she took over, the company was very family-oriented, as you would expect since it was family-owned. I loved going to work because I realized that the kind of work atmosphere we had at HP was very rare. There were a couple of policies that employees somewhat questioned that were family-oriented, for instance having to take a mandatory day off, I believe it was every couple weeks. Obviously there were a few grumbles from some over losing money since they could be working. But overall looking past specific policies, there was an overall feeling of appreciation for the top of HP management for creating such a caring work environment. There was just an atmosphere there that didn't just appear overnight, it was the result of careful planning by those in upper management.

    Folks loved working at HP, and it showed in the turnover rate, which was stunningly low. This was worn as a badge of pride by the company.

    Enter Carly Fiorina. Look at this turnover rate, it's terrible! We need it to go way up, to cycle new people and new ideas in! Day off every two weeks, that's ridiculous, let's get rid of that as well as cut back paid vacation and benefits to help push up the turnover rate! Firings, and resignations sure did lead to a higher turnover rate. HP stopped being HP. Instead of being a very special place to work for, it was suddenly Just Another Corporation. I left a little later, not with the new company environment as the reason, but at that point I was not sad to say goodbye.

    The thing is, Carly took that spirit away from the company, she took away that something very special about HP that made it a privilige to work there, all the while promising results that never materialized. Had HP skyrocketed, few would have complained, but no - she took all these intangibles away, and all the company had to show for it was poor performance. She was a poor leader and a bad decision-maker. The Compaq thing and lack of results afterwards was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

    --
    On the 0th day, God created C
  38. Carly wasn't the real problem by xs650 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Carly wasn't the root source of problem, the boneheads that hired her and let her run the company into the toilet were and are the problem.

  39. Linus Pauling said... by Linuxathome · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "a good idea comes from many ideas." It sounds like Carly Fiorina does not truly understand how research and development is funded. If an exec comes in thinking that all ideas and prototypes that come out of the lab must have an economical payout, then they will commit innovation suicide. Give a little slack and allow the engineers and researchers do what they do best -- create. If you make them worry about their job or their wallet, then that's wasted brain energy that could have been put to good use for creativity.

    Some venture capitalists (which I think Carly was before joining HP) truly understand the nature of the beast, which is why we often hear about companies, crazy ideas, or projects the VCs back that should have never had funding in the first place. Fund lots of ideas, one of them will be a great one.

  40. New slogan by bsandersen · · Score: 3, Funny
    After seeing the iPod in an HP box I realized their new slogan was:

    HP: relabel

  41. But Carly made money for stockholders! by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 5, Funny

    Carly made lots of money for stockholders. I can personally attest to this.

    I bought 26 shares of HP stock on February 1 at 19.75. Carly leaves, and I dump my stock on the 9th at 21.50!!! Woo hoo! I made $45 in just 8 days (minus commission). Just look at that selloff spike. Some of that was me!

    Anyone who knew anything about HP was partying that day. Even at Agilent everyone was giddy. If I had known Carly was about to get dumped I would have hurled my life savings into HPQ.

    I understand she has a bright future ahead of her in the Republican Party. If the Republicans are smart they'll wait until right before an election to kick her out of the party.

  42. bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    they own a lot, but not more than US citizens. http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/chart ing/2005/0302.html

  43. Re:Why supprised by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm going to go anonymous here...

    I'm an Apple employee, and I can tell you that every single Apple VP I've met (six of them so far), is freakin' brilliant. Bertrand Serlet actually reads just about every bug report for any part of the software that falls under his responsibility (that is, the whole OS.) Ron Johnson knows more about selling products in stores to the public, than I had any idea there *was* to know. Sina Tamadon could do the job of any engineer who works for him.

    One thing that people haven't given Steve Jobs enough credit for, is the amazing job he does when it comes to executive recruitment (he learned his lesson with Sculley ;-). I am convinced that any one of Apple's senior VP's could run any other fortune 500 company.

  44. Re:Why supprised by INetUser · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Gee, and here I was thinking that what we really need is leadership and not management. This only confirms it.

    • The manager administers; the leader innovates.
    • The manager maintains; the leader develops.
    • The manager accepts reality; the leader investigates it.
    • The manager focuses on systems and structures; the leader focuses on people.
    • The manager relies on control; the leader inspires trust.
    • The manager has a short-range view; the leader has a long-range perspective.
    • The manager asks how and when; the leader asks what and why.
    • The manager has his or her eye always on the bottom line; the leader has his or her eye on the horizon.
    • The manager imitates; the leader originates.
    • The manager accepts the status quo; the leader challenges it.
    • The manager is the classic good soldier; the leader is his or her own person.
  45. I disagree that innovation is stifiled... by JRHelgeson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Carly may have killed innovation at HP, but it doesn't mean that innovation in America has been killed - just pushed back to the garage.

    There has been a truism that is as true today as when it was coined back in the early 1800's: Americans invent as the French paint, or the Italians sculpt.

    It is our nature to innovate. If it is not happening at Lucent, HP or wherever, it will revert back to the garage where countless American innovations have started. Analysts that look to HP and Lucent (Bell Labs) for innovation in the future are sure to be blind-sided by the invention they didn't see coming from some garage or shed somehwere in this great land of ours.

    --
    Good security is based upon reality and common sense. Common sense is a function of having common knowledge.
    1. Re:I disagree that innovation is stifiled... by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 2, Informative
      I applaud the parent's emotional center on the subject, but disagree with this statement:

      t is our nature to innovate. If it is not happening at Lucent, HP or wherever, it will revert back to the garage where countless American innovations have started. Analysts that look to HP and Lucent (Bell Labs) for innovation in the future are sure to be blind-sided by the invention they didn't see coming from some garage or shed somehwere in this great land of ours.

      I'm of the opinion that most of the real basic stuff is done. It's going to take Huge Sums Of Money and Large Professional Staffs of Very Smart People to really kick over the next cycle of innovation.

      Example: software. Sure: anyone can code stuff, but most of the simple things have been done. I'm sure someone in a garage somewhere will eventually find that one or two points ofentry, but most of the big innovations are going to come at very great expense with large teams of people - some doing programming, others QA, other hardware, bla bla bla, and a support staff and marketing group to make it happen and give it some penetration in the market.

      Another example: nanotechnology. I don't see someone in a garage gettin' down with some electron microscope to build micro-buckyball bearings. Heck - he microscoe would eat up most of the garage, never mind the material science machines that made the damn things, andthe hyper-short wavelength lasers, etc. Back in the 1930s - sure - H & P could cobble together some electronics and build a fucking oscillator in a garage, but the kind of innovations in basic research needed today are mostly beyond the reach of some guy in a garage.

      don't get me wrong: I truly wish this weren't so, which is why I applaud the parent's attitude. I've just been around long enough and have noticed the trends enough that I seriously doubt we're going to see much value coming out of low-end entreprenuerial efforts.

      Which is what makes the historical fiasco that is the person of Carly Fiorina such a complete and unmitigated disaster.

      She wasn'tthe undoing of Lucent, but she set Lucent up so that with mediocre management, it could only fail. Which is precisely what happened. And the world (not just the USA, not just Central New Jersey, but THE WORLD) lost a Really Important source of innovative technology that transformed the planet. No Bell Labs? No CD players.

      Her greedy shortsighted dismantling of HP and its R&D facilities is just part and parcel of her evil legacy, and shows how she, and all the other self-centered nihilistic freakazoid neocon shitbags like her are really enemies of the People. I'm not being some Commie - I mean what I say in the most democratic (smal d) sense - she and her other plutocratic asswipe buddies are simply pillaging the planet and whatever government or economy stands in their way, and are hellbent on leaving the rest of us "holding the bag" when they (finally) drop dead.

      The only thing I can gloat over is:

      For all her narcissism and cultivation of celebrity, I can *guarantee you* that she will be forgotten, just like the rest of us. Her priorities are completely misplaced and in the end, she will end up disappearing from the cosmic stage, just like the rest of us.

      Unlike the rest of us, she will have left a vast swath of wreckage behind her.

      RS

      --
      Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    2. Re:I disagree that innovation is stifiled... by JonKatzIsAnIdiot · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm of the opinion that most of the real basic stuff is done. It's going to take Huge Sums Of Money and Large Professional Staffs of Very Smart People to really kick over the next cycle of innovation.

      Example: software. Sure: anyone can code stuff, but most of the simple things have been done. I'm sure someone in a garage somewhere will eventually find that one or two points ofentry, but most of the big innovations are going to come at very great expense with large teams of people - some doing programming, others QA, other hardware, bla bla bla, and a support staff and marketing group to make it happen and give it some penetration in the market.

      Another example: nanotechnology. I don't see someone in a garage gettin' down with some electron microscope to build micro-buckyball bearings. Heck - he microscoe would eat up most of the garage, never mind the material science machines that made the damn things, andthe hyper-short wavelength lasers, etc. Back in the 1930s - sure - H & P could cobble together some electronics and build a fucking oscillator in a garage, but the kind of innovations in basic research needed today are mostly beyond the reach of some guy in a garage.


      Don't forget that all of us have a huge lead on H&P in terms of knowledge availability (through the Internet), education and tools. You can build your own scanning tunnelling microscope, for example. To build something innovative today takes a greater achievement than it did in the 30's, but we have far more to draw on.

      I don't think that it's gotten much tougher since H&P did their work. Consider the state and general knowledge of electronics in the 30's. Like then, to do something innovative today will take imagination, vision and persistence (probably in that order). Lots of work needs to be done by large, expensive teams, but imagination is cheap. And it's imagination that can show someone what he can build out of what he's got.

  46. Ding Dong the Witch is Dead! by GrassyKnowl · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here is a better link to a very critical evaluation of Fiorina as CEO of HP.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Business/SiliconInsider/stor y?id=88655&page=1

  47. I think... by Quiet_Desperation · · Score: 2, Funny
    ...she looks like Edie Falco from some angles.

    That's all I have to say about her that's civil.

    Carly: http://www.paumanokgroup.com/slides/4.jpg

    Edie: http://www.readio.com/nywindowgallery/movies/img16 .gif

  48. Ramblings of an ex-HPer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    When I hired on at HP in 2001, they had never laid anyone off, ever. I got a sense that people loved working there. I mean, 30,000 employees volunteered to take a temporary pay cut so no one would have to be laid off. But those vestiges of togetherness evaporated a few months later with the first round of layoffs.

    From the start I thought it odd that we didn't actually write our own software. We merely integrated shoddy software licensed at high cost from incompetent vendors. We spent more time "integrating" than we would have just writing it ourselves. And at the end of the day the systems didn't work, and no one (above the engineer level) had the courage to admit we were trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

    In fact no one had the courage to do or say anything that might possibly be considered unorthodox. The witch trials went on, and every quarter or so, more heads rolled.

    It was critically important to fulfill the increasingly quixotic demands of The Project Committee, who burned us out on wild goose chases for the sole purpose of jockeying against rival Committees, not for increased budget or employees, but to avoid reductions in budget and the requirement of layoffs. Not that protecting your budget is bad. But when everyone above the engineer level forgets about creating useful products and focuses instead on what Big-Bang, get-rich-quick scheme will help position them more effectively, that is bad.

    This atomsphere was only exacerbated after the Compaq merger. All of a sudden every team in HP was in direct competition with its counterpart Compaq team to see which one would get axed. Our normal work week, which already spilled over into our evenings and Saturdays, ploughed on through to midnights and Sundays.

    During the years I worked at HP, its spirit and its purpose have both withered, but there were and are still many bright, dedicated engineers working there who still care about HP and take pride in what they do, even if management could care less. If HP is to recover from its malaise, it must move beyond its culture of fear and initiate a return to sanity, a return to caring about its employees and its customers. HP must take its time. Tread slowly, thoughtfully, methodically towards a culture of quality.

  49. The Carly disease is endemic in America and I'm gl by midnight2038 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Carly disease is endemic in America and I'm glad I will be long gone when we follow the path of the Roman Empire. It started a long time before she got there but obviously she is a iconic model of a great many powerful players, otherwise she would have never made it in the first place. Todays business model is exactly that told by the unnamed engineer. Sell, exploit or kill the brain pool by purchasing modest lack luster competitors who sell crappy products but have needed patents.

    The 5 year ramp up time of new product development is fast becoming just a dream. I work in RD. Management complains about our average age of 55 years. Unfortunately the majority of younger recruits with new degrees take as much as ten years to develop common sense and work ethics let alone a working vocabulary.

    The real problems are deeply embedded in our society and educational system. Even though our productivity remains the highest in the world, time is running out. In twenty years the leaders will be China and India. The US will become a Third World Nation with Nukes.

  50. Damn Straight! by DesScorp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    " Carly wasn't the root source of problem, the boneheads that hired her and let her run the company into the toilet were and are the problem."

    You're pointing out what everyone else seems to be missing; the board of directors backed Aunt Carly, even against the son of one of the founders. They knew full well her business plan was the slash and burn the place and turn it into an IBM-Dell hybrid wannabee. They approved all the way, and fought on her side during the Compaq aquisition.

    Good on them for firing her, but if they give a shit about HP and want to own up to their mistake, their next actions should be mass resignations, and an invitation to Walter Hewlett to lead the new board of directors.

    --
    Life is hard, and the world is cruel
  51. Research is one thing Microsoft gets right by Thornkin · · Score: 2, Informative

    The threads above all mourn the loss of Research in American technology companies. It's interestsing that one of the most despised companies on /. is also one of the few that is still doing a massive investment in primary research. Just last week Microsoft had its annual TechFest and showed off much of what it is working on. It is doing research on everything from Teddy Bears with face recognition to rootkit detection to new display technologies. Sound like they, at least, are getting it right. If someone like HP failing to invest hurts the U.S. economy, does someone like Microsoft inveting save it?

    http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1 77 2515,00.asp

  52. Re:The Carly disease is endemic in America and I'm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting
    The US will become a Third World Nation with Nukes.


    Dobro pojalovat k moemu miru

    (welcome to my world)

  53. Re:The Carly disease is endemic in America and I'm by nsxdavid · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Do you only have your vet engineers and a bunch of bright-eyed and bushy-tailed kids? I would figure you'd have everything in between too... bring in young talent, get them experience and train them up. The good ones coming into their own as the old ones retire to tinker in their garage.

    The rot can be in engineer core too....

    My dad was a great tool engineer at Boeing (with it was owned by MacD&D before that). He was brilliant at finding ways to save that companie's butts. But there were engineers there, in other departments, who resented that because it could often make them look bad.

    My dad would see problems and find unbelieveable solutions. For example, they used this very expesnive and dangerous process of pumping molten metal under pressure to create custom bushings per screw hole in parts the F15. My dad, in our basement, created a jig to do the same thing with inexpensive and entirely safe hot glue. A simple hot glue gun and a wooden rig.

    It took forever to convince them to even try it. He had to get everyone to sign off on the thing, from the materials guys (what the hell good is hot glue?) to the people who would look foolish if it worked. Eventually he managed to get a trial setup. They'd use his system to create a bushing and drill a hole with it and see if it meet the extreme tolerances required.

    While doing the experiment, one of the engineers who'd end up looking foolish for "inventing" the molten metal process reached up and nudged the drill as it was making the hole. He tried to be sneaky, but everyone saw it. Never-the-less, the experiment was a success and the whole was perfect, even with the attempt at sabotage.

    He ran into that sort of thing all the time. Management was less of a problem than just bad, don't-rock-my-career engineers. Of course in this case, management just shelved the idea anyway and didn't use it. At least not at first.... one day, a few years into retirement, my dad gets a call for boeing asking if he'd ressurect that process. They suddenly needed to be able to do things cheaper, get the winning bid on whatever-the-heck, and his process would be key. My dad, being the kind of guy he was, created a detailed how-to for them and mailed it off never asking for anything in return (despite the millions this meant to their bottom line).

    Not sure if they ever ended up using it, but it was just one of many things he inveted there. Some of them had far reaching affects on how they built their aircraft. I wasn't able to follow his adventures in engineer after they moved him into Black World and he couldn't talk about what he did, have visitors or even bring home anything. But I'm sure it was exciting. :)

    -- David

    --
    David Whatley