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Senator Calls on NASA to Service Hubble

Avantare writes "Senator Calls on NASA to Service Hubble In a sternly worded letter to acting NASA Administrator Frederick D. Gregory, Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.) said she expects the U.S. space agency to heed the will of the Congress and keep preparations for a Hubble Space Telescope servicing mission on track. Congress, in passing an omnibus spending bill late last year, directed NASA to set aside $291 million of its 2005 budget to spend planning and preparing for a servicing mission to Hubble by 2008. When NASA informed Congress just weeks later that it intended to spend only $175 million of that amount on the Hubble repair effort, some saw the move as an indication that the agency was preparing to abandon plans to service Hubble robotically and rely instead on a space shuttle crew to fix the telescope."

27 of 322 comments (clear)

  1. Excellent News! by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Good for Senator Mikulski! As far as I'm concerned, NASA has been putzing around on this issue for no reason WHAT-SO-EVER. The shuttles are no more dangerous now then they were for the earlier two decades they've been in service. If people were allowed to do their jobs, then NASA would have known about the shuttle damage *before* Columbia's reentry.

    These mumblings about robotic repair sound like a whiny way of getting out of doing the job. If you'll pardon my French, "Just launch the damn space shuttle and fix the bloody thing!" It's not that hard, and I'm sure there's no shortage of qualified volunteers. Do I hear an Amen?!?

    1. Re:Excellent News! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      You do know that NASA/Goddard is in Senator Mikulski backyard, right? Actually I'm not against her on this point, because it's my backyard too.

    2. Re:Excellent News! by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's the pencil pushers at NASA who largely not in favor of a manned mission. It's the same guys who want to kill the Voyager programs, despite the fact that these extraordinary vessels are hurtling towards interstellar space, a place nothing else we have has done, or will do in the forseeable future. I don't really call these guys experts in the matter, but rather part of the problem.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Excellent News! by LMCBoy · · Score: 4, Informative

      The main problem with repairing hubble is the fact that ther is no longer any shuttle capable of containing it in it's hold

      This is only a problem if you want to return HST safely to the ground in a Shuttle cargo hold. As you say, there is no longer a shuttle in which it will fit, because the external airlock for ISS makes the bay too short.

      However, for a repair mission, HST does not have to fit in the cargo bay; it is mounted inside the bay sticking straight up out of it.

      --
      Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others.
    4. Re:Excellent News! by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

      An interesting question becomes, "How to get NASA out of the cargo industry?". Already, the craft are developed by private industry - Boeing, Lockheed, Orbital Sciences, etc, are the ones who really do the development work. NASA provides the R&D money. But NASA also runs the craft after they're built, on a no-profit model. We could leave the craft to their builders to operate (or sell), but that wouldn't work on a standalone basis: they wouldn't be cost-competitive in the world if they want to extract any profit from launches, as other space agencies are launching with a no-profit model (the only real exception that I can think of is SeaLaunch). NASA could, however, provide a fixed per-kilogram launch subsidy to make them competitive again (not just to companies that they give craft-development funds to, but to any US rocket company).

      I think that would be a nice incentive system. If the same company doing the building is the one who is going to be operating the craft, they have a strong motivation to, during the design phase, keep later operating costs down instead of just "building to the spec" and "trying to make it look nice on paper".

      The lower the operating costs, the bigger the demand, and consequently the more likely that private companies will start spending their *own* money on rocketry. Which is what we all want to see here :) Most Libertarians want that so that NASA's funding can be slashed or even eventually eliminated; most Dems, Greens, and some Republicans want to see that so that NASA's funding can go to more science/exploration/research projects.

      --
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  2. There is a better option by waynegoode · · Score: 5, Interesting
    The cost of a mission to repair and service Hubble is estimated at $2 billion. And for that money, it may or may not work. However a new Hubble, Hubble Origins Probe, can be built and launched for $1 billion using the original Hubble designs and new instruments already built as replacements for the current Hubble. It's cheaper, more reliable and less risky.

    From an article in Discover Magazine

    Colin Norman, an astronomer at the Space Telescope Science Institute, notes that NASA has already built two expensive new instruments, the Cosmic Origins Spectrograph and the Wide Field Camera 3, for the cancelled Hubble upgrade. Instead of salvaging the current Hubble, he proposes using the parts to create a replacement, the Hubble Origins Probe.

    Also see the John Hopkins Newsletter.

    1. Re:There is a better option by ThomasFlip · · Score: 5, Funny

      yeah but what you're talking about is fiscal sensibility. I don't think that the United States government (Congress, Senate, Whatever) in all of it's infinite wisdom is prepared to partake in such a common sense approach.

      --
      If the dollar is an "I owe you nothing", then the Euro is a "Who owes you nothing." - Doug Casey
    2. Re:There is a better option by bechthros · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So these two instuments alone can replace all of the existing functionality of Hubble I's instruments? If that is the case then bravo, go for it. But if it means losing the ability to do deep UV astronomy or anything else that Hubble I has proven to be very adept at, I don't think we should skimp out. Hubble has shown itself to have exceeded expectations time and time again, and I think it's well worth the investment. Not to say we should throw money at the problem, but if we can find untold billions for the sake of running to stand still in Iraq then surely there's gotta be a spare 1 billion somewhere we could use to fix something that's been more useful than we expected.

    3. Re:There is a better option by kebes · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think the "better option" that most astrophysicists are looking forward to is the James Webb Telescope. It's a primarily IR-telescope, but in terms of its mission statement it will largely replace what Hubble is doing now. Hubble has already survived longer than originally intended (due to many well-executed repair missions). More years could be squeezed out of Hubble with more repair missions, but if what you want is a brand-new telescope, the James Webb Telescope will keep astronomers busy for many years.

    4. Re:There is a better option by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The thing is, I don't see the people who want to let Hubble die earmarking the funds for a new and improved replacement. The smoke and mirrors of a manned mission to Mars looks good politically because it's so ambitious, but it's causing other important areas to be underfunded or not funded at all.

      --
      It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  3. Understanding risk by waynegoode · · Score: 4, Informative
    The shuttles are no more dangerous now then they were for the earlier two decades they've been in service

    The problems is not that they are more dangrerous now. They have always been this dangerous. It is just that now the danger is better understood. Ignoring risk does not make it go away.

    That said, I am not against using a manned (sorry, crewed) mission to repair the Hubble if that is the best option. In any case, the risks needed to be understood, reduced as much as possible and accepted or rejected; not just ignored.

    1. Re:Understanding risk by AKAImBatman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Space travel has always been dangerous, PERIOD. Astronauts have always known that everytime they strap themselves in, there's a reasonable chance that they won't be coming back. Apollo 1 made that point real clear, and the Challenger incident further punctuated the point. The only comfort the astronauts have is that we will do everything in our power to get them home if something goes wrong. (e.g. Apollo 13)

      As I said, there's no shortage of volunteers who fully understand the risks they are taking. So fly the damn space shuttle for something USEFUL, and keep our bird in the air.

      You can't take the sky from me...

    2. Re:Understanding risk by Jerk+City+Troll · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The only comfort the astronauts have is that we will do everything in our power to get them home if something goes wrong.

      And if we can't get them home, they carry 150mg doses of KCn to make things easier in the end. No doubt, astronauts fully understand what they are getting into: a personal sacrifice in the name of science.

  4. Worth Remembering Mikulski's Motives by reallocate · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's worth remembering the Mikulski's motives aren't driven by pure science. Goddard and other Hubble-related facilities are in Maryland. This is a pork barrel and jobs issue for her.

    And for those who argue that repairing Hubble now is no riskier than in the past, you're missing the point. Every Shuttle flight is risky and Hubble repair missions are even riskier because rendevousing with Hubble means no chance of taking reguge at the ISS and slim to zero chance of rescue by a second Shuttle.

    Loss of a Shuttle during a Hubble repair mission would have political repercussions that woujld likely kill the Shuttle program and, possibly, kill any further crewed spaceflight of any kind. The Hubble is a nice tool, but the purpose of space travel is to put people there, not to do science. Fixing it isn't worth the risk.

    --
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    1. Re:Worth Remembering Mikulski's Motives by AKAImBatman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's worth remembering the Mikulski's motives aren't driven by pure science. Goddard and other Hubble-related facilities are in Maryland. This is a pork barrel and jobs issue for her.

      Another poster addressed that point here.

      And for those who argue that repairing Hubble now is no riskier than in the past, you're missing the point. Every Shuttle flight is risky and Hubble repair missions are even riskier because rendevousing with Hubble means no chance of taking reguge at the ISS and slim to zero chance of rescue by a second Shuttle.

      The Shuttles were designed with hot-standby in mind. If the powers that be are THAT worried (which I'm not, we've done this several times before without incident) then get a second, unfueled shuttle on the pad. If something goes wrong, you have a day or two of turnaround. If everything goes fine, then the second shuttle will complete the next mission (probably IIS work). If possible, use the Endevour for servicing the Hubble. Not only is it newer and a bit sturdier, but it carries the extended mission, life support equipment just in case the astronauts have to cool their heels for a week or two while waiting for a rescue.

      Loss of a Shuttle during a Hubble repair mission would have political repercussions that woujld likely kill the Shuttle program and, possibly, kill any further crewed spaceflight of any kind.

      As sad as I am about it, the shuttle is dead. I see little chance that it will be flying for much longer. My only hope is that it hangs on long enough to push for the new launch technologies.

    2. Re:Worth Remembering Mikulski's Motives by bechthros · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "This is a pork barrel and jobs issue for her."

      Can you please explain to me why a Senator representing her constituants who, like most of us, want jobs, is a BAD thing? Isn't that why they're elected, to represent their constituants?

      "Every Shuttle flight is risky"

      Sure, just like every airplane landing is risky, just like crossing the street is risky. Most of them are former test pilots, so you'll have a hard time convincing me that the astronauts aren't willing to accept those risks. The fact that it's risky doesn't mean it istn't worth it.

      Not to mention that the safety record of shuttle flights far exceeds what was expected. I remember NASA saying when Challenger blew up that we were very overdue for just such an incident, and it was a fluke that one hadn't happened sooner. Not to say that more shuttles should blow up, but the safety record of shuttle flights is exemplary.

      "but the purpose of space travel is to put people there, not to do science."

      Why must there be only one purpose for space travel? And what exactly do you think these "people" we "put there" are going to do, sit around and play pinochle? No, the people that went to the moon did science once they got there. So will the people we eventually send to Mars. Scientific research is a very valid purpose for space flight.

  5. Local interest: STSI by jfengel · · Score: 3, Informative

    I really like having Ms. Mikulski as senator, and I've voted for her each time she's been elected, but I should point out that the reason that she's pushing this isn't that she cares about getting hi-res pictures of aliens. The Space Telescope Science Institute is in Baltimore, MD, her home state, as well as NASA's Goddard facility.

    That's what representatives of any sort do: they fight for their local interests. If they didn't do that, the voters would elect somebody who did. Unfortunately, without a fixed budget cap, that generally means deals of the form "You vote for my thing, so I'll vote for your thing, and the only one who loses is the guy who eventually has to pay off the debt."

    So while I like Ms. Mikulski, and I support the "measly" few dozens of millions of dollars it would take to keep getting great science from Hubble, I thought a bit of disclosure would be appropriate.

  6. it's not about that by Yonkeltron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    i might get modded down for this but it needs to be said.

    it's not about whether robots or humans are used. it's about the hubble being a piece of crap that needs to be replaced in order for us to move forward. the hubble is obsolete because of the fact that there are cheaper and better telescope projects out there that should be initiated. some of those programs are mentioned here on /. all the time!

    it's a wonder that we haven't listened to the independant experts and just thrownit out to lagrange point to work as long as it can.

    i really feel like NASA needs to let this one die so we can move forward.

    --
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  7. ...or join one by waynegoode · · Score: 3, Interesting
    If the Senator wants Hubble serviced, he can join or start a voluntary organization to do exactly that.

    Or join one already started and make a contribution.

  8. I see your bullshit and raise you a horseshit by Ohreally_factor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Good argument!! Unfortunately for your argument, most scientists involved are in favor of repairing the Hubble, and it was a political decision by a non-scientist political appointee to NOT repair it.

    Dumbshit.

    (No, I don't think you're a dumbshit. It just fit the fecal theme of this post.)

    --
    It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
  9. Re:I want to know why... by bechthros · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In other words, a Senator is representing the interests of her constituants. Horror of horrors. Perish the thought.

  10. Buying time on Hubble by Ford+Prefect · · Score: 3, Informative

    Probably been mentioned already, but a work-around for one of the major limiting factors for the Hubble's lifetime has already been found, that being the number of working gyroscopes available.

    After repair, the telescope has six gyroscopes (used for pointing and stabilising the device, without any messy reaction mass involved), and it needed at least three to point accurately. There are currently only four working ones left - they're somewhat unreliable.

    However, a way of pointing the telescope with just two working gyroscopes has been tested recently, which should extend the lifespan a little - possibly until 2008. I still doubt that a full-scale repair mission will be launched, but this might help in filling the gap until a replacement is finalised...

    --
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  11. Why the controversy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Odd thing about all the controversy of this servicing mission - had Columbia not been lost, the money would have been there, Hubble would have been serviced, and that'd be it. But now, because Columbia went down, killing those aboard, we suddenly are being led to believe that space travel is now much more dangerous that the previous 100+ missions the shuttles have flown? I am positive that there are people out there that are willing to crew the shuttle and repair Hubble, fully knowing the risks involved. Everyone who steps on the shuttle knows there are risks. Alternately, if we can build a good replacement for Hubble in a reasonable time frame, and launch it, cheaper than the cost of repairing Hubble, then that would of course be the reasonable option.
    In the troubled times we live in, we cannot spare the money for this sort of pie-in-the-sky space fantasy. We have a moral obligation to westernize the middle east - the future of the world depends on it. They must live in democracies, and, if possible, worship in Christian churches.
    And if anyone comes here, telling us that they have an even better way of living, and that we worship in accordance with their religion, we'll just quietly and politely oblige, right?
  12. Wait a minute by washley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wasn't there a Slashdot story a while back saying that we could send up a NEW space telescope for less? What's the sense in fixing Hubble if we can get a better, brand new, space telescope for less money.

  13. Wrong by MattHaffner · · Score: 4, Informative
    ...but in terms of its mission statement it will largely replace what Hubble is doing now.

    First of all, NASA almost never builds straight replacement instruments. They are always focused on something new. JWST will not replace Hubble by any means. In fact, if both were up at the same time (sustained, not about-to-be-junk), the amount of additional science able to come from their complementary instrumentation should be reason alone to keep Hubble strong until it launches.

    Astronomy in the ultraviolet is all but mothballed for a decade if one of the instruments (Cosmic Origins Spectrograph, COS) slated for installation in Hubble does not make it to orbit somehow. The only functioning instrument right now is GALEX, an imaging experiment.

    However, when we obtain spectra, the ultraviolet, more than any other waveband, gives us tremendous direct information about the atomic composition of many astronomical objects. (Molecules are best studied in the radio part of the spectrum. Solid particles [e.g. dust] in the infrared).

    JWST will not fill this gap. It will be a great loss and put a halt to a wealth of knowledge gained from ultraviolet spectroscopy that began about three decades ago.
  14. It's good to live in third-world nation America by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Where the Japanese and Chinese and Europeans have their acts together while we stop spending on Science.

    Sigh.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  15. Re:Let US decide where to spend the money by DeathPenguin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Actually, I missed something important in your original message--the part where you said "[. . .]what percentage of your taxes go to which area[. . . ]" At first I thought you meant taxes in general.

    Being a Libertarian, I believe that we should eliminate income taxes all together. And since most of the government's money comes from other means (taxing corporations and such) anyway, they'll still have plenty left to fund cool things like wars and science (In order to make better weapons for wars).

    If you want to give the government money to spend on non-military things, I don't see a problem with that other than how only a small fraction of what you originally give will likely reach the people it was intended for. I'd prefer to write a check to a local charity or the EFF myself, personally.