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Microsoft Lifts Curtain on Indigo Software
daria42 writes "Microsoft has released an early version of Indigo on the Microsoft Developer Network. Indigo is a new communications system intended to let Windows programs more easily connect to other software. Indigo was one of the three original "pillars" of Longhorn, however under the new plan it will be re-tooled to work with Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, in addition to Longhorn."
After Microsoft back ports everything from Longhorn to XP, will the $499 upgrade from XP to Longhorn be like 95 to 98? Just some bug fixes and a free browser?
it is only after a long journey that you know the strength of the horse.
Is it me or nothing MS is pitching in Longhorn sounds that exciting? A new version of COM+, wow how exciting!
For ONCE, I want a newer version of Windows to be faster and smaller than the previous version and more stable as well.
I've got a great idea. Now that all the DCOM holes have been plugged (either at the OS, or at the firewall, or both), let's pick a new port number that'll be open and listening to the world by default, and on which all the OS components will have to rely.
For bonus points, I'll justify this by saying that it makes something that sounds really cool on paper if you're a CTO, but is actually the first line from the functional spec for "A platform for writing remote exploits" to anybody with even a millineuron of cynicism left in their brain.
Why didn't they just call it Purple People Eater and get the whole "scary" thing over with?
Will Prince's 1999 be the theme song for this technology or will they choose Purple Rain?
Will they get the Indigo Girls to do a version of Galileo that goes "how long til they get the software right?"
My name is Indigo Montoya -- you killed my father, prepare to die!
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
They are not going to give these away for free. You will have to pay to get these products for XP. Either way. I think Longhorn will be much better in the sense that you will finally have an OS that is both awesome looking yet more functional. The whole deal with using CSS type files to control interfaces for example is the most attractive thing for me from longhorn, besides the fact that I can finally shut up some mac fanatics who take about the mac being "prettier" (although XP came quite a way in making things look better).
Not proprietary, but well patented.
EG:
"RSA WS-Security: SOAP Message Security Patent License Agreement Instructions
RSA Security has identified four patents ("the RSA Patents") we believe could be relevant to implementing certain operational modes of the OASIS WS-Security: SOAP Message Security specifications. To obtain a reciprocal royalty free license to the RSA Patents to make, use and sell products conforming to the OASIS WS-Security: SOAP Message Security specifications, a customer or partner must sign the attached Patent License Agreement."
I imagine there are more of these out there..
Bye!
"By making Avalon and Indigo work on older machines, Microsoft hopes more developers will want to write software that takes advantage of the new technologies" I guess .Net isn't selling fast enough.
The smartest man in the whole, wide world really don't know that much. - Mose Allison
This, Avalon, and WinFS are all jokeworthy now, but at least one of these if not all of them will see decent implementation in GNU/Linux three to five years after they're being used in Longhorn, at which point Microsoft will have the replacement ready for release.
It might even have a better interface than Apple, spawning a whole new series of Longhorn themes for X-Windows.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
"Indigo will replace the five different programming methods that Microsoft has today for sending messages between two programs in a distributed system, said Ari Bixhorn, the lead product manager for Web services strategy at Microsoft." Hmm....Thats going to upset a lot of people who use those methods. There gonna be a lot of porting work to be done....
Nah, just kidding. That will never happen.
(B) + (D) + (B) + (D) = (K) + (&)
... how Indigo is treated these days.
From the colour of the year, the 6th chakra or a hype system to M$ software.
Sheesh.
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
Indigo is a new communications system intended to let Worms and Script Kiddies more easily connect to other software.
Indego, in they go!
I'm really glad to hear this. DDE, I mean, COM, I mean, I mean, OLE, I mean, DCOM, oh no wait, ActiveX, er, COM+, uh, LOL, um, Indigo! will be really great.
Everything in Longhorn will be based on the .NET framework and sandboxed, with the Win32 API scrapped. Longhorn's ability to run the Win32 API will be through a compatibility layer, similar to the DOS compatibility layer in XP. However, WinXP's ability to run Indigo and Avalon, the two pillars of Longhorn, will be done through a forward compatibility layer.
Fortunately, they're doing everything clean this time with XML and SOAP, with an open API, as opposed to binary-only files, arcane RPC calls, and endless piles of undocumented, insanely messy code dating back until the early 90s. There actually might be some interoperability this time around -- Longhorn SAMBA certainly won't be nearly as hard to code and reverse engineer, especially with Mono in hand.
More details: http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/understanding/p illars/default.aspx
- - - - - Fear not the reaper, but my shiny white teeth.
I'm a signature virus. Please copy me to your signature so I can replicate.
With the way they're promoting Longhorn, you could swear it was a religion. Next, they'll declare a jihad on Linux.
I'm going to have to agree with the parent poster. I work at MS, and just recently saw a pretty thorough ppt on Longhorn features, a lot of which didn't depend on the pillars. It took an hour just to talk about all the security revamps in the kernel. Unfortunately, its all 'MS confidential' for now... The first Beta should be out during the summer, lets reserve our judgements of Longhorn until then.
No, it uses Web Services, and standardised security (WS-Security).
You obviously don't get it. This is WAY better than TCP/IP. For one thing, IT'S WAY BIGGER. For another thing, IT'S WAY MORE COMPLEX. Third, IT BELONGS TO MICROSOFT. Fourth, IT'S NOT STANDARD Fifth, YOU HAVE TO USE WINDOWS FOR IT TO WORK. Sixth, well, you get the point... Just like TCP/IP... What were you thinking???
A most overlooked advantage to owning a computer is if they foul up there's no law against wacking them around a bit.
I try to as well, but I'm pretty sure neither of us succeed. Why? Because far too many protocol designers think their protocol is "special" and "more important" so they implement a fallback to tunnelling over HTTP (port 80, even over a proxy).
Unless you have a *very* smart transparent HTTP proxy, there go a lot of your RPC blocks. SOAP seems particularly vile in this respect.
although XP came quite a way in making things look better
Hey, I have fond memories of Fisher Price products from my youth as well. But when I sit down at a computer, I don't want flashbacks to using a Speak n Spell (unless I run it as an emulator (Yeah, I know, TI made it, not Fisher Price, but you get the idea).
It really, truly horrifies me that people actually like XP's interface. As the first thing I (and every single competant computer user I know, without exception, N>40) do when setting up an XP box, I disable the themes service. Poof, no more craptastic prettified round window edges taking up valuable screen real-estate.
For centuries, Indigo used to be a very valuable dye; the exclusive looking deep blue color was a sign of wealth. Of course that "exclusivity" went down the toilet when they developed synthetic indigo in 1905 and everyone with a new pair of blue jeans could have some of that exclusivity.
It sounds like a good name for a Microsoft product.
I agree with you that XP came a long way in terms of a functional UI, but there's still some pretty bad problems. Namely, there's a lot of examples of what Kai Krauss calls "Boeing Cockpit Syndrome" where you have a window with just too much stuff in it (preference windows, etc).
Those first leaked screenshots of longhorn (the only ones I've seen) seem to take it to the next level with more buttons along the top of the explorer windows, more widgets in the start bar and hella more crap on that sidebar thingie. Longhorn, seems to me, is going to be a UI nightmare.
Also, using CSS for a userinterface is good, but I don't think it's THAT good for a whole system. It'd be fine for designing WinAmp skins, or the like, though. Hell, I think it'd be best for that.
I'd be willing to bet that M$'s CSS has some micro$pecific enhancements that aren't supported in anything except M$ products.
...spike
Ewwwwww, coconut...
One of the main causes of security problems in Windows is the ease in which Windows programs can interact with the operating system and each other on a low-level without the interference of proper security restrictions. Nothing about this "new" communications system leads me to believe it will be any different.
Windows will never be secure until and unless Microsoft changes its design philosophy to something a little more paranoid, and a lot less "let's all be friends".
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
but I was always under the impression that Server 2003 and XP were akin to Windows 2000 and 2000 Advanced Server?
Yes and no...
From a high-level view, 2003 roughly corresponds to the "server" version of XP, which itself equates to 2000 Pro.
For Win2k, however, every version used the same underlying OS, with only the list of installed products (and a few config details) changing with the server-ness of the product you installed.
Windows 2003, however, Microsoft actually released as NT 5.2 (compared to XP as NT 5.1, and Win2k as NT 5.0). Now, version numbers don't mean a whole lot, but with Win2k3, Microsoft actually did optimize it both in terms of memory footprint and CPU efficiency. As an example, you can just barely fit a hand-trimmed XP installation into a 96MB RAM footprint. Win2k3 you can do in half that, under 48MB (without running server-specific services and applications, of course), comparable to the footprint of a baseline NT4 Workstation installation.
And don't think you give up speed for that - Not even close. 2003 not only "feels" quite a lot more responsive, it actually does run arbitrary code faster... I don't know how (perhaps XP has that much bloat?), and I had to write a dozen or so small test apps to prove it to myself, but you'll easily see a 10% gain even on mostly CPU-bound tasks, and I frequently notice that multiple I/O bound tasks that on XP would take time 2X, take around 1.1X on win2k3.
And for stability... Wow. I thought Win2k took a huge leap forward, and XP a big-but-not-so-big leap back, until I started playing with 2k3... You just can't crash those things! On one of my servers at work, I have an uptime over a year, and it hasn't even started getting flakey! Almost as good as a BSD box!
And no, I don't work for Microsoft... I even prefer Linux, myself. But, finding myself more-or-less forced to use Windows, I REALLY wish MS would release a pro or WS version of Win2k3 (my particular hack works for now, but I kinda wonder how Win2k3 SP1 will react to my trying to install it on a nonexistant product line... With luck it'll work just fine, but I expect I'll need to slipstream it in and do a clean install, sigh).
"C:\WINNT> copy firefox.exe explorer.exe"
This doesn't work on XP. Explorer.exe is automatically restored when you mess with it. Of course, it'll be assumed that this is because Microsoft is enforcing a monopoly instead of it simply being a security feature.
"Derp de derp."
He's a witch! Burn him!
However, on a somewhat more serious note...
"It took an hour just to talk about all the security revamps in the kernel. Unfortunately, its all 'MS confidential' for now... "
... I think you have a real future working on a rumormill blog. You're supposed to post this stuff as an AC, though. :)
In theory you're right, in actual reality you're completely wrong. A massive portion of the .NET Framework is actual a thin veneer over Win32 calls (ildasm - this isn't rocket science). The .NET Framework pulled it into a much easier, and more organized structure, but the bulk of the code is actually Win32.
.NET interface, as will some of the new higher level services like Avalon and Indigo.
The post several generations before was actually talking the standard smoke and mirrors of distance "it's all gonna change!" bullshit. Longhorn is basically taking Windows XP, with largely the same kernel and underlying subsystems, and of course all of the Win32 API, and adding a new managed shell. Let's remember that explorer.exe is just an application. This new shell will have a first-class
... who hears the voice of a pseudo-scientific Monty Python narrator as I read this? "Indigo was one of the three original "pillars" of Longhorn, however under the new plan it will be re-tooled to work with Windows XP and Windows Server 2003, in addition to Longhorn, which will, in fact, never ship."
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Actually, you really should know what you are talking about before you make bold statements. Avalon - NOT the shiny new interface, is the new display subsystem. It handles the layout of windows forms and such. It also has NO knowledge of XML. XAML - A declarative programming language based off of XML. It allows you to instantiate objects using XML. Such as - would instantiate a Hello object and set its Color to blue. Aero - The new shiny interface system. This is actually what makes things pretty and is built off of DirectX. This also has no knowledge of XML or XAML. But this is slashdot, so I should expect geeks to talk out of there arse before knowing what they are talking about! :-)
"Ideas without action are worthless."
Everything in Longhorn will be based on the .NET framework and sandboxed, with the Win32 API scrapped.
You're a damn fool if you believe that. Or at least, if you believe that and that Longhorn will be released this decade.
#!/
I can only assume that the people that understand how XML, Web Services, Service Oriented Architecture, Enterprise Application Integration effect large corporations have remained silent.
The people that have replied have stated clearly that they don't know what Web Services are, have never worked with XML, and don't understand how EAI has changed the way businesses do things.
Indigo is an extraordinary technology that will very likely be copied by IBM for Java (IBM and Microsoft both partnered on all of the WS-* standards) and will usher in a whole new era of interoperability for the business world.
If you're even the slightest bit curious about what this is all about I suggest the following reading material:
http://www.ws-standards.com/
http://community.java.net/java-ws-xml/
http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/understanding/p illars/Indigo/default.aspx
WinFX Indigo Docs
http://pluralsight.com/blogs/tewald/default.aspx I'm sure there is a lot more.
http://chicagodave.wordpress.com
Even when parts of the Longhorn shell was being built on managed code (which is no longer the case), there was no "compatibility layer" for Win32. Longhorn will still have all of the Win32 goodness.
The relationship bewteen Longhorn and managed code will be the same as the relationship between XP and managed code.
Trust me...
A speech...
And Gene Ray explains that you are educated stupid:
www.timecube.com
This started out as practically a greenfield project within MS with a brand new team at least five years ago. It's being done by incredibly competent people, and they have done a huge amount of work on interoperability issues- that whole raft of WS standards represents solutions to a whole range of issues that no else is really confronting. And I'm not saying they've solved them in an ideal way but as long as no one else puts anything out there that is less proprietary, they will jump out in front here. Remember how they eventually "got" the Internet?
Those of us who love F/OSS and Linux need to be less dismissive and more frightened.
MS is fragmented and balkanized internally but there are pockets of real capability. Web Services have not achieved anywhere near the level of adoption they could/should have by now (to all you trolls: the few dozen desultory SOAP projects at your company prove my point, not disprove it). And that's because of lack of "security," which boils down to lack of widely supported standards. We gotta be more proactive about this, and not make the same mistakes we are making in regard to Avalon.
If a company uses DRM to place unacceptable restrictions on what I purchase I'll simply not buy it. It's really that simple. And I'm sure a lot of other people will do the same. All the DRM will do is stop people from using it in a way which the companies don't "like". Which is fine by me as the choice to buy or not to buy is always going to be mine to make.