Ubuntu and UserLinux to Combine?

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Ubuntu and UserLinux to Combine?

Posted by timothy on Wednesday March 23, 2005 @06:48AM from the plenty-of-u-to-go-around dept.

An anonymous reader submits "With all the noise about Ubuntu, and no sarge release in sight, we haven't heard much from UserLinux in recent times. Even Bruce Perens has admitted that the "lack of a Debian release is becoming a critical problem". Now, Ubuntu has invited UserLinux to combine forces. More distro consolidation -- without a corporate buyout in sight!"

27 of 274 comments (clear)

I'm Not surprised by ciroknight · 2005-03-23 06:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

The first one out with a working product tends to win the market, as long as their product is the best. And since UserLinux stagnated in a lot of trivial discussion, Ubunto got the one up on us..

That being said, I believe that the collaberation of the two products will be a great support to the cause!!!!

--
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
1. Re:I'm Not surprised by hyfe · 2005-03-23 07:40 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  The first one out with a working product tends to win the market, as long as their product is the best.
  The manufacturer releasing the best product, ahead of the competitors tend to win?
  No shit! ... and in other news, people with loads of money tend to be rich, and people with very little money tend to be poor.
  
  --
  "" How about taking the safety labels off everything, and let the stupidity-problem solve itself? """
Ubuntu, as a desktop and a server by alienfluid · 2005-03-23 06:51 · Score: 5, Insightful

i personally think it is a very good move. Combining forces with UserLinux will not only increase its userbase but will allow Ubuntu to conform to the standards that UserLinux was established on. Ubuntu is a great distro that is good for the desktop and the server alike. You just got to love the apt-get. Visit Lafayette Linux Users Group at http://lug.lafayette.edu
1. Re:Ubuntu, as a desktop and a server by AvitarX · 2005-03-23 11:22 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I strongly disagree.
  
  I tried to use Ubuntu as a server and it was disasterous. We have a heavy use "workgroup" server at work that needs to run Netatalk 2.x (1.6.x did not play nice with OSX). I had to apt a whole bunch of packeges to get stuff ready, and some of them were from debian even.
  
  In the end I was unable to get netatalk to compile, but I found an apt source for it (jones.dk). I install it and all is fine for about 12 hours, and then files turn into folders before peoples eyes. And everything someone clicked on would turn into the same folder. So someone decided to delete the duplicate and we lost it obviously.
  
  Long stoy short, I went back to my Mandrake image where netatalk was hand compiled, but I am dying to have a distro where it comes from a package and I am not stuck with stuff in /usr/local and a custom init script. It is just Ubuntu is definatly not that distro.
  
  The oft berrated Mandrake has been far better for me.
  
  Also the only thing I do without the console is adding printers (never quite made sense to me, and they kept changing the system).
  
  --
  Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
No story here, move along by RevMike · 2005-03-23 06:53 · Score: 5, Informative

One person posts a suggestion on a discussion list. No one has yet responded positively or negatively. Ten minutes later it is a story on Slashdot?

I'm going to post somewhere that I'm taking over IBM. Let's see if "RevMike to take over IBM" becomes a story in the next ten minutes!
1. Re:No story here, move along by winkydink · 2005-03-23 06:57 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  This means that Ubuntu has joined the ranks of Slashdot LoveFest companions Google, Apple & Linus Torvalds.
  
  --
  "I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Bruce is right... by rk · 2005-03-23 06:54 · Score: 4, Funny

"If this goes on, there will be credibility for Debian or Debian-derived distributions in the enterprise setting."

How many times have Windows releases been pushed back? Microsoft has credibility. It seems Debian is working towards the same credibility.
1. Re:Bruce is right... by Bruce+Perens · 2005-03-23 07:24 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Ugh. Of course I meant "no credibility". But you're right, maybe we need a longer vaporware period in order to be taken seriously by business people :-)
  
  --
  Bruce Perens.
New name! by Faust7 · 2005-03-23 06:55 · Score: 5, Funny

Ubuntu and UserLinux

I give you... UberLinux.

--
The coolest voice ever.
1. Re:New name! by SmokeHalo · 2005-03-23 07:01 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  I, for one, welcome our new Linux Uberlords.
  
  --
  I'm not good in groups. It's difficult to work in a group when you're omnipotent. - Q
Makes sense by aCapitalist · 2005-03-23 06:57 · Score: 5, Insightful

Maybe it should be Ubuntu assimilates the few users of United Linux.

I asked Jeff Waugh about this a few months ago on irc and he had said that Mark Shuttleworth and Bruce Perens had talked before, but nothing about a merger.

I think there's a natural synergy here with Bruce Perens being an "industry insider" and Shuttleworth having deep pockets.

And at this point in linux history I don't think a little consolidation of efforts is a bad thing.
1. Re:Makes sense by ryanvm · 2005-03-23 07:28 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I think there's a natural synergy here with Bruce Perens being an "industry insider" and Shuttleworth having deep pockets.
  
  I too have a natural synergy with people who have deep pockets.
Re:GNOME or KDE by ultrabot · 2005-03-23 07:00 · Score: 4, Informative

AFAIK GNOME is 1st class citizen of Ubuntu. Will there be re-run of GNONE vs KDE

sudo apt-get install kubuntu-desktop

Voila', first class KDE on Ubuntu. It works like a charm, switched it to default yesterday - mostly because it's faster than Gnome and konqueror rocks.

--
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
I think at this point we can say... by example42 · 2005-03-23 07:04 · Score: 4, Funny

"lack of a Debian release is becoming a critical problem"

I think at this point it's safe to say this isn't a bug, but rather a feature.

"Debian users take pride in the fact that their distribution is always several releases behind the latest version of the kernel, but makes up for that by being more difficult to install and use."
From here.
Re:Huh? by Crashmaster007 · 2005-03-23 07:05 · Score: 5, Informative

It is very true that there are way too many Linux distros out there, but staying informed about the top 10 is normally a good idea. Just go to http://www.distrowatch.com/ and check the list. Not that UserLinux is in the top 10, but still a good idea.

--
I reject your reality and substitute my own.
Re:GNOME or KDE by aCapitalist · 2005-03-23 07:05 · Score: 5, Informative

Ubuntu is Gnome. Kubuntu is a community run effort to bring KDE to the Ubuntu platform.

I think Kubuntu has the opportunity to be big. I was running Ubuntu since about October or so, switching to Hoary about a month ago, but yesterday switched to Gentoo and KDE just to see what's happening in the KDE world after a couple years of running Gnome. Gnome isn't exactly zippy even on fast machines. I love Gnome, but KDE 3.4 is a freaking speed demon.
server versus desktop by bcrowell · 2005-03-23 07:05 · Score: 5, Interesting

Although I run generic Debian on my desktop, my perception is that Debian is really meant for two things: (1) a distro for use on servers, (2) a generic basis for other people to build customized Linux distros on top of. Given that perception, I don't really see how the slow release schedule is "a critical problem." People using it on servers don't care if it has the latest prerelease version of KDE, they just want it to be stable, and they want security patches (which they get). People using it as a foundation for their own distro are going to build their distro after updating whatever they think needs updating.
Another perception of mine, which may be totally incorrect, is that UserLinux is a project that failed. Would any Slashdotters who actually use UserLinux like to share their counterexamples?
It's like the joke that goes, "I don't have a drinking problem. I drink. I fall down. No problem." Generic Debian is doing fine on servers. People who run non-x86 architectures are presumably happy that Debian is continuing to support them. Ubuntu is apparently doing fine on the x86 desktop. Many desktop users (including me) run testing, not stable, and therefore don't have a problem with the slow time scale for releasing the next stable.
So what's the problem?

--
Find free books.
1. Re:server versus desktop by claes · 2005-03-23 07:12 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I don't think that is what Debian is meant to be, but that is what it is actually used for. And this has become kind of rationalization for slow infrequent releases.
my $.02 worth by suezz · 2005-03-23 07:11 · Score: 5, Interesting

I think it would be a great idea - I tried ubuntu and now it is all I use - hardware detection is second to none - can't wait till next release - got my apt-get ready - I hope unbutu sticks around for a long time - I plan on not doing another iso install ever - use debian on my sparc sun blade 100 at work - will never do another sun cdrom upgrade on that one either.

if ubuntu puts out a sparc edition I will get it on my sunblade in a snap.
Ubuntu the new Debian by affinity · 2005-03-23 07:13 · Score: 4, Insightful

I would like to see..Ubuntu replace Debian as the base system for many of the current debian distros out there. I think with Ubuntu could promote other distros to focus work on the application and desktop layers while keeping better package compatibility.
This could be what UnitedLinux attempted to be.
No dis-respect to Debian or it's developers. I believe Debian as a base could have been managed better to take advantage of the many advances the "Deb based distros" have made.

I am not a professional developer or Software Manager so take this opinion as you will....

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no sig yet
1. Re:Ubuntu the new Debian by xeno-cat · 2005-03-23 08:14 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I don't think this is such a good idea. Debian is a good base because it is stable. primarily, but also has a massive bredth of packages. The "Debian based" distributions generally add value to Debian by providing more limited but current set of packages by pulling from the testing branches and doing their own integration. They also target some niche. This is why Ubuntu has value. It targets the desktop.
  
  Debian does not really target anything, and that is good because it makes for a rich base to start from.
  
  What would the value add be for basing a distribution on Ubuntu?
  
  Kind Regards
  
  --
  "A few great minds are enough to endow humanity with monstrous power, but a few great hearts are not enough to make us w
It must be a really slow news day. by Bruce+Perens · 2005-03-23 07:20 · Score: 5, Informative

Since this story is about my project and it's a complete non-event, I'm going to make an off-topic announcement before I get to the meat.
We now have 4 paid editors at Technocrat.net and we're running Slashdot for Grown-ups. Please try it out.
Now, about UserLinux: Debian will resolve its problems. We're trying to help. And the project will go on. There will be a commercially-supported UserLinux release about a day after the Debian release. There is nothing else but the Debian release on the critical path.
I have been acquainted with Mark Shuttleworth since the early days of Debian and fully support Ubuntu. UL will borrow from Ubuntu where appropriate. But UL seeks to do all development directly within the Debian organization, in order to achieve maximum transparency and public participation (a better explanation is in the UserLinux white paper). So, where UL borrows from Ubuntu, the result will be checked into Debian.
I would have liked everything to go a year faster, but I'm convinced that the UL rationale is still valid and is important to the future of GNU/Linux.
Thanks
Bruce

--
Bruce Perens.
1. Re:It must be a really slow news day. by CockblockTheVote · 2005-03-23 07:28 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  I am unfamiliar with this "editors" concept. Could you elaborate on what duties and responsibilites would be?
2. Re:It must be a really slow news day. by mjg59 · 2005-03-23 08:32 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  We're trying to help.
  
  That's an interesting thing to say. You haven't posted to debian-project or debian-devel this year. There are only three Debian bug reports mentioning Userlinux - two are by the same person and turned out to be due to a bug in Vmware, and the third is from a Userlinux developer who wants some extra fields in the default Samba config file. He didn't supply a patch. In fact, I can't find a single case of a patch being submitted with a note stating that it came from Userlinux.
  
  So, what are you doing to help? What solid technical improvements have Userlinux made to Debian? Will the money earned by offering certifications and support go into improving security support in Debian?
  
  I'm already seeing Ubuntu gain adoption and support by commercial vendors. They've also put a great deal of code and money into Debian. What real, tangiable advantage will Userlinux provide over them?
No. by Doc+Ruby · 2005-03-23 07:23 · Score: 4, Informative

UserLinux answers "no" (in European).

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--
make install -not war
Re:Ubuntu and why it didn't work for me by Anonymous Coward · 2005-03-23 07:39 · Score: 5, Informative

Er, when you run the install CD, it asks you what language you want to use, and what keyboard layout you want. You CANNOT install Ubuntu without going through these 2 screens, so I'm guessing you skipped past those and then complain? You're 100% wrong on this. Sorry.
Re:Ubuntu and why it didn't work for me by makohill · 2005-03-23 07:40 · Score: 5, Informative

I'd like to remind you, folks, that it's year 2005 we're talking about here. Every god damn Windows app can accept unicode, and Windows itself can accept any language in five mouse clicks.

Try the preview of the new version released several weeks ago. A Unicode world has been both the default and assumed everywhere in development Ubuntu for nearly six months now. You can select a language at the GDM screen and get it up and running with full internationalization quite easily. The language-support and language-package project that Ubuntu is running is doing great things for l10n but help from those communities that speak the language and use the input methods is going to be essential.