Japanese Govt Boosts OSS Developments

Final Samurai writes "Information-technology Promotion Agency(IPA, in pdf), an extra-departmental organization of Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry of Japan has been supported open source software development. Some efforts are now available: framework for printing, Samba internationalization, a tool for hacking Gtk+, ssh in Java, manuals for OpenOffice.org, and GRASS internationalization. Though IPA doesn't announce the support program strongly, we can find the name, `IPA' in each project page. Does your government have such a plan to fund OSS developments? How do you think about governments' funding OSS developments(by tax)? If you have a chance to be funded, what kind of software will you develop?"

Comments

Not too bad

[soniCron88]

"How do you think about governments' funding OSS developments(by tax)?"

It wouldn't be much different than the library system. Sharing knowledge for "free" is never a bad thing.

Re:Not too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

More like illegal subsidies. We should sue Japan for this appalling breach of commercial freedom. It's not surprising in light of this that they held Fischer for so long.

Re:Not too bad

[amanox]

It's not exactly free, you do pay taxes :-)

But I agree, such initiatives have to be stimulated.
More intiatives like these should be backed up by gouvernements, to stimulate innovation.

Like Software-pattents... oh wait ...

Anyway, love the idea, hope to see this here in Europe too.
The OSS-funding ... not the pattents.

Re:Not too bad

[George Tirebuyer]

We could come up with software paid for by: The Corporation for Public Programming and users like You...

Re:Not too bad

[Marthisdil]

"How do you think about governments' funding OSS developments(by tax)?"

Would be sorta cool - they we could all start hating the OSS software creators like we all hate MS, right? I mean, we'd be paying them money with our tax dollars, so we can bitch when they don't get security holes plugged weeks before someone announces them, and all that good stuff, right?

Right.

Re:Not too bad

[downbad]

It wouldn't be much different than the library system.

That's a dubious claim, to say the least.

Sharing knowledge for "free" is never a bad thing.

Code is not necessarily knowledge.

I'd be willing to bet that there are quite a few people who believe sharing knowledge of how to manufacture nuclear weapons is a bad thing.

Re:Not too bad

[seweso]

So you don't think it's bad if the whole world knows you're gay?

Re:Not too bad

[callqcmd]

Not too sure whether the tax payers(many of whom dont really care about a computer) money going for FOSS development should be a prime concern where there are other issues at hand.
How about hunger, poverty and countries where 1 out of 3 ppl having AIDS?

But then whats the point, all our bases belongs to THEM

Re:Not too bad

[swimmar132]

Yes, because we all know that throwing more situation at those problems is the solution!

Re:Not too bad

[Uber Banker]

Maybe, maybe not.

If it costs $200 to buy a documented office suite, and 1mn people do it, the cost to the economy as a whole is $200mn. Now if it costs $10mn to document and support an open source alternative, the economy as a whole has saved $190mn which it could spend on other services.

You're right the people with a computer gain, but others can gain too. Now that $10mn raised through taxes has freed up $190mn for people to spend. Even if they save half their disposable income that's still $95mn 'new' disposable income in the country. This can go on to benefit those without computers.

Now this $95mn spending isn't 'new' as the old office suite that used to be bought because the company that made this suite employed people and gave shareholders (i.e. pension and saving plans) income, their income has been cut $190mn (see paradox of thrift). So in theory how useful is this, well jumping several steps from arithmetic to growth theory, efficient use of capital (buying something cheaper on a sustainable basis) frees up money for new spending/investment and should lead to economic growth (which means higher wages, standards of living, etc).

Economic growth hasn't been especially beneficial for the average worker over the past couple of decades, (using the US as an example as the numbers are easily available and well discussed) in 1980 corporate profits made up around 7% of GDP, in 2004 they were 14% - corporates grew the amount of 'profit' they made from the economy while households didn't make much progress, some sectors of society declined. So economic growth cannot be argued as a wholly good thing - it depends on who it accrues to and whether the observer perceives that as a 'good' thing.

Personally I welcome some funding of open source, it does cost some tax money, but it introduces a notion of competition to corporates which can well be seen as monopolistic in some/many industries - i.e. without governement support of competition things wouldn't progress. There are other ways for governments to encourage support too.

THere are other arguments regarding taxation and perception of volume of tax.

Yes it is all circular arguments: that is economics, if you ever think about what happens to a dollar it goes in a circle many many times. An yes IAAE (I Am An Economist).

Re:Not too bad

[WaxParadigm]

"Personally I welcome some funding of open source, it does cost some tax money, but it introduces a notion of competition to corporates which can well be seen as monopolistic in some/many industries - i.e. without governement support of competition things wouldn't progress. There are other ways for governments to encourage support too."

The government does not need to "introduce" the notion of competition, OSS has and will continue to compete without government's help. OSS, like everything else, should compete on it's merits, without imposing a tax on people. Is OSS so important that people should be jailed and have their property taken if they don't support it? If not, it should not be publically funded. The best way for government to support competition is to get out of the way and not not muck with things (except for a few roles like enforcing rules in areas like like antitrust, fraud, enforcement of contracts, etc). The last thing we need is for OSS to become more dependent on public funding. Government does have a role similar to that of corporations in using and contributing where relevant to open source to fill it's own needs (a consumer of OSS, if you will), but government involvement "for the greater good" is rubbish as an economic principle or public policy.

Re:Not too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

And about once a month, we stick a bunch of geeks in a room on TV all day long in coding madness, and have users call up and pledge their donations. That would be a phat lan-party!!

Re:Not too bad

[Anonymous Coward]

The government does not need to "introduce" the notion of competition, OSS has and will continue to compete without government's help.
Probably.

OSS, like everything else, should compete on it's merits, without imposing a tax on people.
Opinion.

Is OSS so important that people should be jailed and have their property taken if they don't support it? If not, it should not be publically funded.
Is the war in Iraq, subsidy of the poor or support of the legal system? That is opinon. The fact is governemnt is elected and chooses its remit. Picking and choosing taxes will always cause failure, lest why would there be any taxes? If a sufficient amount of the population don't like the government they get voted out, otherwise we're stuck with them. Take the rough with the smooth or move country if it bothers you so much.

The best way for government to support competition is to get out of the way and not not muck with things (except for a few roles like enforcing rules in areas like like antitrust, fraud, enforcement of contracts, etc).
So its OK for the government to support idea you're happy with, but not others. The government enforcing contracts interfers with private contract enforcement companies, why should the government interfere? Antitrust/fraud is a concept acceptable only to those that it supports, may do not. Your supporting the idea is your opinion. A person may have the opinion that healthcare should be provided by the government and equally available to all, why is their opinion any more or less valid?

The last thing we need is for OSS to become more dependent on public funding.
It creates some dependence which could be viewed as a negative, but it may be a positive. Care to detail some specific arguments why it is bad for OpenOffice.org, from OO.O's perspective, to benefit from Japanese documentation which happened to be funded by the government?

Government does have a role similar to that of corporations in using and contributing where relevant to open source to fill it's own needs
Absolutely not. Government has a role in whatever it chooses, and what it chooses is upto who is elected, that's democracy. If a population want to elect a government which happend to fund open source then let them.

government involvement "for the greater good" is rubbish as an economic principle or public policy.
That is purely your political view.

Please note I am not criticising your opinions. I am pointing out they are your focussed opinions, not by any means facts, they are unlikely to ever be provable either way. Contrast that to the grandparent who spoke of ideas and concepts and clearly seperated their opinions from discursive concepts.

Re:Not too bad

[Directrix1]

I don't. Share that info. The biggest terrorist the world has ever seen, is also the one that is trying to stop that information propogation. Coincidentally, it is also the only entity to use a nuclear bomb on another country. Have a nice day.

One more convert...

[WilliamSChips]

Another convert to the array of corporations and governments supporting and using Linux. Soon, the only major corporations not supporting Linux will be Apple and Microsoft...

Re:One more convert...

[ceeam]

Monoculture is bad. Moreso, Linux (or GNU/Linux if you fancy) is not perfect, far from it, just like other UNIXes. It reminds me C++ in certain ways. I wonder when it will outgrow itself and will go supernova (like C++ predictably did).

Re:One more convert...

[Anonymous Coward]

...except that Apple do support and contribute to OSS projects (eg khtml) that are used on Linux.

Re:One more convert...

[Anonymous Coward]

Monoculture is bad. Moreso, Linux (or GNU/Linux if you fancy) is not perfect, far from it, just like other UNIXes.

True, but there are alternative suppliers of Linux (and Unix), which give all of them a greater incentive to improve it since the lower switching costs between different suppliers are so much smaller that the competition is much harder.

Re:One more convert...

[Anonymous Coward]

OSS != Linux

Re:One more convert...

[indifferent children]

Shhhhh... My company didn't hear the Earth shattering KABOOM. They still employ hundreds of us C++ programmers.

In Australia?

[inflex]

I'd love to know if something like this - or other Government based funding system is in place in Australia.

As a long term OpenSource developer with several routinely used projects for email content management/filtering it'd be lovely to get a few dollars from the government to help me pay the bills around here - hell, even a tax break would be lovely.

What I would develop

[Apreche]

If I could develop software funded by taxpayer dollars I would totally make an MMO. It would be free as in NPR and PBS free. It would be designed to be high quality, not designed to be addictive. And it would appeal to all peoples, so everyone could enjoy it. It would hopefully give everyone in the country something in common to talk about and help bring an end to this dichotomy of peoples in the US.

I would also use the money to fucking educate people about technology. God damn are people freaking clueless!

Re:What I would develop

[Norgus]

How do you manage not addictive AND appealing to masses of people?

Pandering to the Chinese?

[shanen]

Well, not sure how far they'll really go with it, but I feel like their motivations are suspect. The Japanese government has pretty much made peace with Microsoft. The only reason I can see for them supporting OSS is because the Chinese seem to be going away from MS, and Japan is thinking about who's going to be most important to Japan a few years down the road.

Think of it as another form of distributing their investments away from dollars...

Re:Pandering to the Chinese?

[RoLi]

Why is every positive Linux movement badmouthed?

It doesn't matter why they did it, also being at "peace" with Microsoft doesn't prevent you from supporting Linux. The important fact is that they did a big Linux commitment and that that commitment is helping all Linux users.

Re:Pandering to the Chinese?

[indifferent children]

Being at peace with Microsoft doesn't prevent you from supporting Linux, but supporting Linux does prevent you from being at peace with Microsoft. M$ will see this as a hostile act and terminate their non-aggression pact with Japan. Hopefully the Japanese will see it coming sooner that Stalin did.

Does that count as an invocation of Godwin's Law, or was it too subtle?

Re:Pandering to the Chinese?

[sql_noob]

>The only reason I can see for them supporting OSS is because the Chinese seem to be going away from MS. I would say it isn't true. That Asialinux is probably just a small move in order to cut cost of servers. Chinese in linux isn't ready anytime soon and the government isn't helping at all. From fonts to input there are still lots of problems. Common forks would just use windows, it's the doorway for using pirated software to save money.

Re:Pandering to the Chinese?

[RoLi]

M$ will see this as a hostile act and terminate their non-aggression pact with Japan.

Nice analogy, if it weren't for the simple fact that MS doesn't have any possibility to hurt Japan in any way.

Any hostile action by Microsoft drives Japan further to Linux, which is bad for MS and good for Japan in the long run.

Goverment funded OSS

[Anonymous Coward]

I know that the the french government is increasingly pushing free software.The police will soon use OpenOffice as the official suite.An hardened version of Mandrake Linux is beeing used in the army and the standard Mandrake Linux in some part of the administration.Well, Id'l like to see gnu/linux used in other places than army and police, but there are many others examples. Goverment support gives OSS a lot of credibility.

Re:Goverment funded OSS

[Jedi Alec]

so the french army uses Mandrake these days? *easy pun alert* my my, that sure explains a lot */easy pun*

all kidding aside, knowing the french they'd just love to be free of yet another (american) shackle. looks like they're ahead in the race to get rid of good ol'MS.

Re:Goverment funded OSS

[Anonymous Coward]

They're just doing what all governments do - use a domestic supplier if one is available. That is, have you ever seen e.g. police cars in a country made by a foreign car manufacturer if there is a domestic one? Nope.

Re:Goverment funded OSS

[Jedi Alec]

heh, I'm dutch, so unless the police switch to Spijker I think they'll stick with foreign cars :P

Too bad they stopped using the 911's tho, looked pretty impressive.

Re:Goverment funded OSS

[netsharc]

What, in contrast to a dolt going to war only to be greeted with this?

And talk about tax-paying, that's your tax money going in flames down there.

Government should not be funding OSS

[Shivetya]

Unless it is under contract to provide an immediate service that is needed. Just putting money out there for funding development would be wrong and we would have nothing more than the waste of taxpayer money that funds "art".

In other words, if there is a purpose/need for the software then by all means fund it under contract for that purpose. This could include changing educational programs to only use OSS for teaching of students on how to program. If however the reason is just to buy votes, keep unemployed "artists" from starving, or there is no need then do not use the taxpayers dollars on it.

I just want to avoid a situation like what we have here in Georgia where one local county spent more on art than their roads. Boy does it show. Want to find a government building - just look for the ugly art or a building that looks more expensive than a bank. I used to think it was just a saying.

Re:Government should not be funding OSS

[sboss]

I agree and disagree. I dont think the goverment should give money to be giving money. But I do like it when the goverment (our hard earned tax dollars) are given to specific OSS projects (and is stated this is a one time shot of money). The lottery in GA (yeah I live here too) gives a wad of cash to schools and are told this is a one time deal/single shot of cash. Once it is gone it is gone. period. Granted the lottery has been back to give more money but they make sure everyone knows that you can not count on anymore money from them. If the goverment (or even the lottery) wants to fund some OSS projects that way I am all for it.

Re:Government should not be funding OSS

[WindBourne]

That is nice for us, but in other countries, the citizens want their gov. to spend money on creating jobs. Look at India. They have focused on Hollywood, Software Engineering, and Space. Bollywood is up and coming, as is space. As to software engineering, well, you can not be here and not know that India is coming on strong. In adiditon, their gov. is moving towards Linux even with the MS bribes. Why? because, they can not hoep to compete in MS's back yard. So they are wanting a new front yard.

Likewise for Japan. They did cars, steel, and hardware. Now, they want into a new market; software. Well, you can not hope to compete with MS doing bribes and GWB pushing MS everywhere. SO you just move to a different yard.

Sadly, we have seen our gains from the 90's wiped clean over the last 4 years. Worse, our schools are slipping into a true state of mediocity similar to what is in texas (IIRC, texas is now up to 47 amongst the states).

While I do not like to see money be spent (esp. foolishly), I do think that we need to quit pushing the monopoly and allow compition. If the gov. keeps pushing MS everywhere in the states, all the companies will be selling to the US only when they fall.

In fact, I tried to get Colorado to do an "X-prize" for gpl based software within the state. That has produced some very interesting results.

Re:Government should not be funding OSS

[oliverthered]

Unless it is under contract to provide an immediate service that is needed

If everyone though like that the Government would never hand grants out to anyone. If the Government thinks that it good for the country (or the world) as a whole then they give it funding.

If I were to start up a small business the Government would give me a lot of backing, including the ability to apply for several grants, because small businesses are good for the country.

If I start up a charity then the Government gives me extra money on top of the donations I receive because charities are considered good for the country or the world.

Money spent of OSS ends up being spent on everyone, when compared to money being spent on the contractor that stays in the pocket of the contractor. Maybe you look at short term goals and the here and now, but the Government looks into the feature.

Re:Government should not be funding OSS

[oliverthered]

'Sadly, we have seen our gains from the 90's wiped clean over the last 4 years.'

There were no gains, switching to computers has not increased efficiency or created any new jobs. It has just replaced some old jobs with some new ones. Since the new jobs cost about as much as the old ones did the transaction costs are comparable to before computer automation.

Re:Government should not be funding OSS

[mpcooke3]

There are often goverment grants or tax rebates available for research and development. I think OSS research and development is not neccessarily a bad thing even if isn't required for a specific "product".

Re:Government should not be funding OSS

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless it is under contract to provide an immediate service that is needed. Just putting money out there for funding development would be wrong and we would have nothing more than the waste of taxpayer money that funds "art".

Can't be any worse of a waste of money than the money that goes to keeping corn farmers alive (hey guys! GROW SOMETHING ELSE YOU DIPSHITS!), or subsidies to companies that can't compete with cheaper goods produced overseas (of course, if its not lining the pockets of the CEOs, then the conservatives and libertarians call it "socialism", just try suggesting subsidies to protect american coders from cheap overseas labor).

Re:Government should not be funding OSS

[timeOday]

Government should not be funding OSS unless it is under contract to provide an immediate service that is needed.

That shouldn't be hard, government needs every kind of software.

If you want to get annoyed with govt. waste, think how much govt. (at all levels) has spent on MS Office over the years. How many billions does Microsoft have sitting in the back? And guess who is their biggest custmer: the govt. of course.

It's time to end the Microsoft handout. For a relatively paltry fee, the government could get competitive bids to fix up OpenOffice in whatever way necessary (if at all) to meet government needs. Over time it would save billions!

Re:Government should not be funding OSS

[wew]

And on this basis, how would the internet itself have been developed?

Re:Government should not be funding OSS

[nametaken]

That's a cool idea. Why doesn't someone start a US lottery? As far as I know gambling is legal if its non-profit, like how churches do casino nights. Why don't we set up a lottery where the winners get 70% of the winnings, and worthy (proper non-profit) OSS projects get the rest?

Jeeze, a national lottery? It could put a dent in the state lotteries. :)

You just had to

[kevin-cs-edu]

You just had to give me another reason to move to Japan.

ARGH!!!

Re:You just had to

[metricmusic]

Yep, I wish they would stop fucking around with us and just show us the Gundams already.

---
http://starbulletin.com/2005/03/20/news/sto ry1.htm l

Cool

[WindBourne]

Governments probably do not wish to alarm MS and our gov.. So they quietly slip away from both.

Sadly, I think that by the time, We Americans wake up, it will be too late. All the jobs will have flowed out as all new apps will be done on Linux in other countries.

Re:Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly, I think that by the time, We Americans wake up, it will be too late.

There are evidence that Europeans first came to the ground of modern USA, long before the "Indians" as we call them today. The theory says that these ancient Europeans were replaced by more modern Indians at the end of ice age. Then, few hunder years ago, more modern Europeans replaced the Indians.

Seems to me that America has a long history of sleeping, what comes to technology. Other countries get more advanced, while America stays still of advances only a little. I don't know why and I don't know will this happen again.

Israeli govt funding OOo localization

[Yonoz]

With a budget of 240,000 NIS it's a small step but one in the right direction. http://www.maor.gov.il/english/open_office.asp

Re:Israeli govt funding OOo localization

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm, that's just the distribution budget. IIRC, the treasury dep. had spent about 1M NIS (~250K USD) on the whole project.

Repeat of the 1970's

[ites]

Remember Big Steel, Big Auto, Big Air... large monopolies subsidised by the State, inefficient providers of substandard goods... being eventually driven to the edge of extinction by cheap foreign competition, surviving only by embracing modern practice and competing equally?

Remember how world leaders turned to world losers in just 15 years, unable to change with the times?

We're rapidly entering the same phase with software. Big Software in the US (and to some extent in Europe) is largely dependent on its monopoly position, bolstered by State support, using the argument "we pay taxes and create jobs" (both false) as blackmail.

Meanwhile the rest of the world is rapidly evolving to use modern practice (which means open standards and open code) so that they can compete against the previously unassailable US Big Software giants.

It's going to happen exactly the same way. Trauma, crisis, mass layoffs, and finally, when it's almost too late, an understand that Big Software sees that it cannot fight the commoditization of its industry through marketing, politics, or blackmail.

Re:Repeat of the 1970's

[beacher]

I disagree wholeheartedly. The japanese kicked our ass in the auto industry in the 80's and 90's but detroit adapted and learned how to make a better product. More and more american cars are finding their way into consumer reports top 10's and that's something that benefitted the population at large.

Competition fosters a better quality product. If Japan wants to help make Linux a better product, then I'm all for it.

Adapt, evolve and pass the strong genes on ;)
B

Re:Repeat of the 1970's

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference is that Auto, Steel, etc. make products, they have specific owners and they are for sale. The OSS is Open Source Software --> everybody have it. Public. Not just the manufacturer, and it's not for sale.

Supporting it requires payment but that is different from purchasing a product.

Re:Repeat of the 1970's

[Cyn]

Wait, their OSS development is in competition with Americas? Hmmmm pearl harbor ... bush ....

tough call.

ok, Japan wins hands down.

Re:Repeat of the 1970's

[Anonymous Coward]

OF course, there was also a spate of "let's do everything like the Japanese". There are certain cultural differences that were ignored:

"Hey everbody, let's all dress up like our favorite animals and do jumping jacks in the parking lot! It works in Japan!"

"How about if I kick your ass and we call it good?"

Re:Repeat of the 1970's

[Beale]

More and more american cars are finding their way into consumer reports top 10's and that's something that benefitted the population at large.

But, alas, not the environment.

Re:Repeat of the 1970's

[vertinox]

...detroit adapted and learned how to make a better product.

Have you been to Detroit lately?

No seriously... Have you been to Detroit and walked around the streets during the day? I didn't think such a place existed in the United States until just a few months ago. Entire neighborhoods of suburbia abandoned... Houses burnt down... Blocks and blocks of abandoned car warhouses. Crackhead zombie bums straggling in the streets. They even have these "Food Vans" that go around handing food out to the homeless.

Cheap place to live though.

Most of the car manufactures have moved elsewhere... Like to the southern states and Mexico where the taxes are cheaper. There is still the nice GM corporate building and the nice monorail that no one uses.

Like the idea

[nietsch]

You'd need to keep the grants smallish or otherwise every coder will be writing grant applicatiosn instead of software applications.

Re:Like the idea

[indifferent children]

I'm going to do both, and write a grant application application.

Andalusian Government

[Anonymous Coward]

My regional government (Junta de Andalucia) has just announced they will free all the software developed for them (Andalucia, Spain).

You can read about it here the Spanish version of slashdot http://barrapunto.com/article.pl?sid=05/03/02/0921 215

Tax-Based Funding

[Evil W1zard]

If the government starts to really push OSS funding from taxes then I would want to see a big push for security-related products. Because broadband/always-on connections are growing there is a real need for free/open-source security solutions for home users who don't really know anything about security and might not be inclined to go out and spend the money on firewalls, anti-virus and etc (and a good advertising campaign for use of freeware security products since there are already many out there, but many people just have no idea they exist or where to find them.... And why we're at it they can also develop an freeware version of VMWare as well please!

Re:Tax-Based Funding

[Trolling4Columbine]

So not only do you want to spend tax money to develop software that competes with the private sector, you want to spend tax money on advertising for it too?

Why should OSS get a free handout when every other software business has had to make their own way?

Re:Tax-Based Funding

[Evil W1zard]

I said "If" the government starts using tax dollars to do this. I would prefer that they don't use tax dollars, but if they do then security is where I would like to see the money spent. (I also would not have qualms "if" the govt. decided to use tax money for software development to spent the money on private sector development of security products to lessen their costs as well)

Allow me to apologize:

[earthbound kid]

As an English teacher (and native English speaker) living in Japan, allow me to apologize for the poor English in the article write up. My organization (JET, Japan Exchange and Teaching) has been working directly within the Japan school system more than 15 years in an effort to increase the English ability of Japanese public school students. Currently more than 3,000 native speakers from around the world are living and working in Japan, employed by local school boards and teaching the youth of Japan in teams with native Japanese.

However, during these past 15 years, a new technology called "the Internets" (developed first by Vice President Gore but later expanded to a plurality of networks under President Bush) has developed. As a result, I and my thousands of colleagues have spent our time checking our email, reading slashdot, downloading graduate school applications, and clicking links randomly while staring vacantly at the clock in the corner of the taskbar instead of developing lesson plans. The result of these activities can be seen above.

Sorry!

I swear, just one more article, then it's nose to the grindstone! For real this time!

Re:Allow me to apologize:

[earthbound kid]

Hmm, I'm not sure why I got modded down. Read the summary folks-- you notice how the language is slightly strange? That's how all my student write. It's not their fault; it all sounds right in Japanese, but I still wish I had some way to keep them from saying things like, "How do you think about governments' funding OSS developments(by tax)?" I can try to say, it's not 'how'; it's 'what,' put spaces before parenthesis, and what not, but all those things are correct in Japanese anyway, so it never sinks in.

Anyhow, now that my karma is low, I'm going to have spend the next month building it up again-- more losses for the Japanese educational system.

That has nothing to do with software

[nietsch]

If you local government does stupid things by spending large amounts on art or software without requiring something substantial back, that does not make art or software bad. It just shows that morons exist everywhere, even in your gouvernment, and there are always people willing to profit of it.

We had a similar subsidised art system here too, the warehouses were stacked to the brim with art that was delivered in return for the grants. With (Free) software it is different: an overflowing warehouse of software would be very good for the rest of the world as everybody could use it (unlike art objects).

Metric

[metricmusic]

"Information-technology Promotion Agency(IPA, in pdf), an extra-departmental organization of Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry of Japan has been supported open source software development.

Obviously they support slashdot as well...

I'm METI Certified

[Mad Geek]

I'm a METI/ITA/JITEC certified Systems Administrator, and they've always been vendor neutral in their exams and included question about opensource for many years. The shortest
exams are still 5 hours long, and are available in the spring and autumn.
Even if they are mostly standards centric, you can see a preference towards open source. They even require knowledge of the GPL in their recent exams.

Off topic for editors...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is every open source story filed under the Linux heading? The projects listed like Samba, OpenOffice, ssh are not Linux.

I have nothing against Linux, but it is only one part of the picture.

Funding Arts?

[sshtome]

"we would have nothing more than the waste of taxpayer money that funds 'art'."

Uh, sorry to be upset at you but geek or not, don't you think that funding arts is a good thing?

Art is an indicator of the state of a society, perhaps you could see it as a way to give joy to the population, it serves so many purposes. That I am quite disturbed that you could imply that it is useless!

If you see technology as the only method of furthering human development do you think that eugenics might be a way to improve the rate of human progress?

This leads us back to the point of this thread, that governments are here to help the population, if they are not at war with other countries, why should they keep those benefits from others.

Or are you saying that if a government develops some software, then the populace will only appreciate it if no one else has it. Very Machiavellian. Quite wrong (I hope!)

Re:Funding Arts?

[indifferent children]

Art is an indicator of the state of a society

Art is only an indicator of the state of society when it is society that is creating and supporting the art. When the government is supporting the art against the wishes of the people, then the indicator is pointing in the wrong direction. Using your argument, as long as the government supports art, the populace can be a pack of violent, slobbering morons but that is still a health society.

And no, I didn't choosing "violent, slobbering morons" just because the GP was talking about Georgia.

In Italy

[Simon (S2)]

Does your government have such a plan to fund OSS developments?

In Italy LUGs get funded by the government. More or less everything they spend for hardware, room rentals for courses, etc. gets a refund.

As a citizen I am concerned

[briancnorton]

Not to disrespect the OSS developer, but I have serious concerns about the level of professional financial management that these projects have. I don't want my tax-dollars going to buy a foosball table for an OSS company that will go out of business before their product is delivered. No offense, but follow-through has been a serious problem for OSS. Look at how many projects in freshmeat are at at version 0.5 and haven't been touched in a year.

Re:As a citizen I am concerned

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to disrespect the OSS developer, but I have serious concerns about the level of professional financial management that these projects have.

Don't worry, with Bush in office all the money will go no-bid to his croneys. A small percent will trickle down to pay the salaries of actual software developers in Halliburton's new "homeland cybersecurity" division, and the rest will be "professionally managed" quite well, thank you.

Re:As a citizen I am concerned

[Bloke down the pub]

I don't want my tax-dollars going to buy a foosball table for an OSS company that will go out of business before their product is delivered.

Would you have the same objection if it was the dollars you'd used to buy shares in noBusinessPlan.com?

No? Well neither did anyone else, at the time.

Re:As a citizen I am concerned

[ssj_195]

No offense, but follow-through has been a serious problem for OSS. Look at how many projects in freshmeat are at at version 0.5 and haven't been touched in a year

That's very true, and one of the saddest sights in a the world is a promising-sounding project that has seen no releases for two years :( However, I wonder how common this would be if the authors had been given funding? I'm willing to bet that a lot of these abandoned projects were dropped mainly because the authors found that their need to put food on the table meant that they did not have the free time to carry on working on a project they loved.

Re:As a citizen I am concerned

[Anonymous Coward]

The great thing about open source is that unlike closed source, open source projects can be continued by another company, so even if one company dies, another company can start it. Also, it could be the case that a company decided to release a product under OS specifically because they've decided to abandon it and thought it would be a waste to keep the code to themselves.

Now with government, I'm sure the project will follow through. Each project will cost at least three times as much as originally anticipated, and surpass the project deadline by three times as much as well, but there's no doubt the project won't get axed if it's another reason to spend more of our tax dollars.

Re:As a citizen I am concerned

[timeOday]

Look at how many projects in freshmeat are at at version 0.5 and haven't been touched in a year.

I wouldn't draw any conclusions from that; most of those little freshmeat projects are just personal projects that somebody graciously offered to the public.

Whether the code will be open is irrelevant; if the govt. lets out a contract, there should be deliverables and they should be delivered. Unfortunately that sometimes doesn't happen.

Re:As a citizen I am concerned

[nietsch]

Look at how many projects in freshmeat are at at version 0.5 and haven't been touched in a year.

Well as one of those thousants, i have this to reply: You have to try, to succeed. As a developer it can be very hard to find out if you are the only one having that itch, so you just put your app out there and see if you get any response. And when you've never done that you think it is cool to do, a little boost for your ego.

To get a thriving free software culture you need both people that try, and people with a bigger than average ego. The world does not gain from timid people that are too afraid to tell about their creation or that they failed. They just don't register on the google scale...

If you demand of a gouvernment to never to try and fail, then maybe some uninhabited island in the polar region is better suited for you.

Re:As a citizen I am concerned

[cpeterso]

No offense, but follow-through has been a serious problem for OSS. Look at how many projects in freshmeat are at at version 0.5 and haven't been touched in a year.

That is not a very nice thing to say about Debian. Sarge will be released "When It's Ready"(tm) any year now.

Re:As a citizen I am concerned

[cheesybagel]

Or it means that the project did its thing and is no longer useful because something else does the same job better.

Ssh ported to J2ME, not java in general

[Gorath99]

If you follow the link in the blurb, you'll see that this project did not port ssh to "normal" java (J2SE), which had been done before, but instead ported an existing java implementation of ssh2 to J2ME, which is the java platform for mobile devices. So now you can enjoy ssh2 on any mobile device you have that supports Java/MIDP2.0 (most recent cellphones and PDAs seem to do so).

Maybe the editors should proof their post for

[Anonymous Coward]

grammatical errors.

Information-technology Promotion Agency(IPA, in pdf), an extra-departmental organization of Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry of Japan has been supported open source software development.

I done said my bit.

Nor funding proprietary software

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree that in an ideal world the government wouldn't have to fund Free Software, but when you consider that the entire proprietary software industry only exists because so many of our tax dollars go towards enforcing limitations on our rights through copyright, the least they can do is give some of that money to the creators of software who aren't using such an antiquated and couter-productive business model.

m17n

[pamri]

The m17n library funded by the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, Japan is probably, IMO the most exciting thing to come out of the whole process.

The m17n library allow you to view and type complex text languages like Indic, Arabic, Hebrew and other languages. While this is possible by using QT3.2+ & GTK2.0+pango, this restricted one to just 2 toolkits and to two heavyweight desktops(XFCE4 is the exception though). The library is also a good compromise between a toolkit dependent solution like pango/QT3.2 and Server based solutions like the doomed Indix and STSF.

The screenshots here show firefox and magicpoint, applications that use different toolkits displaying multilinugal texts. I have even seen but not used windowmaker rpms compiled with m17n support.

A very practical example would be something like Damn Small Linux, which is a pretty lightweight live CD in both disk size (~50 MB) and Memory usage (runs on 64 MB RAM). This was ideal for a school near my place that wanted to use it as a teaching resource but wanted it in their native language. I finally am settling for XFCE4 and GTK2 applications like OO.o, Firefox.

The keyboard solutions were too rudimentary, in the case of xkb for phonetic keymaps for indian languages or too buggy and complex, in the case of IIIMF. M17n was a joy to use from day one and rpms for Mandrake 10.1 & debs for Ubuntu/Debian unstable are available.

Quit pushing the monopoly

[Anonymous Coward]

As much as I agree that they should quit, do you really think scrapping the "intellectual property" regime would be politically feasible given that the profiteers leaching the most from its abuses are those responsible for our mainstream media and culture?

Great idea

[Anonymous Coward]

"How do you think about governments' funding OSS developments(by tax)?"

Taxes are meant to fund means and services that are for public service and need, or rather, for different groups of people. This includes roads, traffic signs, also considering the handicapped.

Anything that services a society, technologically, economically, including educational institutions, healthcare, etc. justified governmental funding.

As such, tax funded OSS projects would be a good thing. Given that the solutions are beneficial for a large enough part of society. How that's weighed is a different issue, but just like which roads or traffic signs or schools need more or less funding.

Wrong, Wrong, Wrong!

[Trolling4Columbine]

"This leads us back to the point of this thread, that governments are here to help the population..."

BZZZZZZT!

Wrong answer! Government (in America, anyway) was created to uphold the freedoms guaranteed by the constitution. It does not exist to redirect tax money to certain privileged segments of the population.

local government

[kerp11]

i think its very important that local government start initatives like this, as they are able to put money back into the local economy rather than giving it to large corporations, often in the case of europe - in other countries. this is a win-win situation as far as local government is concerned, local employees providing local services. re-investing back into the community they are supporting.

Re:local government

[Trolling4Columbine]

If a local government's only purpose is to "put money into the economy", it has outlived it's usefulness.

Which OSS ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hello,

I just wondered myself what OSS are you talking about ?
The only product I know which bears this name is Open Sound System, but in this cas that's not accurate, right ?

Answer to question

[ebvwfbw]

How do you think about governments' funding OSS developments(by tax)?

Asked to Bill Gates (how I think he would answer): "What a stupid idea? Why only a complete moron would support that! There is nothing like it in the world. On the other hand taxes should support Microsoft since we know every man, woman, child, even pets benefit from Microsoft products and they should pay for it. We are getting ripped of to the tune of 1 billion billion bucks a month!"

Free money...For companies

[Anonymous Coward]

Great, now more people will finance development so IBM, Red Hat, SUN, etc. can profit more...but hey, they are the good companies, aren't they? MS is only truly bad company!

Isn't that a little bit naive? IBM is making loads of money SELLING linux based software and its eclipse twin brother, Websphere.

So people are working for free to settle a framework to companies make more profit and downsize. Thats quite a bargain! Maybe I convince my favorite restaurant chef to launch "Open Food", afterall people has the right to eat! That's a primary need, isn't it? Why do I get "free" software if I can't eat?

What about Open Sex? That's great! Think about it...

Not in my backward country!

[museumpeace]

Govt $ to make something useful when it could be developed at a profit by a company that would then be able to contribute to a campaign fund? No Way in the USA, man!

OPP vs CUPS?

[Grendel Drago]

Can anyone tell me how this "open printing project" differs from or interacts with CUPS?

--grendel drago

Freedom of software

[tepples]

Government (in America, anyway) was created to uphold the freedoms guaranteed by the constitution.

Freedom of speech and of the press are guaranteed in the first amendment, freedom of software alluded to in the ninth.

Re:Freedom of software

[Trolling4Columbine]

What the hell are you talking about?

Re:Freedom of software

[tepples]

The framers of the Bill of Rights knew that they couldn't recognize every desirable right of the people into writing, so they left it open: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

Re:Freedom of software

[Trolling4Columbine]

So how does that translate to "citizens can be compelled by the government to fund [insert product or service] that competes with private-sector offerings"?

Whew!

[Cyn]

I thought it said 'boots' - my jaw dropped and I was about to start Googling for home addresses of their OSS projects. :P

Public-sector businesses competing with private

[tepples]

The same way that "citizens can be compelled by the government to fund policing that competes with private-sector security guards".

Re:Public-sector businesses competing with private

[Trolling4Columbine]

Security guards don't enforce the law, and aren't competing for "business" with police.

Try again.

been there, done that

[towndowner]

IPA used to contribute to nearly all my projects, and it was a very good time. I've since switched to a Belgian Abbey-style ale, which is a very much nicer time, though I tend to fall asleep sometime through the fourth.

aka Socialism

[Anonymous Coward]

That anyone is taking this idea seriously just shows how fucking retarded this site is. Wake the fuck up. The nanny state is not going to pay for your shitty toy programs.

Japan.org

[Doc Ruby]

Japan's central industrial planning, through MITI, has tried many times to snatch the global computing lead from the US. But every time, the strategy has been to fund large corporations to execute a central, multi-year plan, with a specific revolutionary goal. This IPA is completely different: it doesn't pick the end result in advance, it doesn't have a specific timeline, it doesn't even have a revolution in the specs. And it doesn't seem to be a state capitalist (friendly fascist) program for transferring taxes to corporations. Could this be the way that Japan Inc. finally pulls it off - as Japan.org?

OSS != Linux

[mamladm]

With all due respect, you are talking nonsense.

First, the IPA does not expressly support Linux. Its progam is to further the use of open source software in Japan. And in fact you will find that many government sponsored research projects in Japan are based on BSD and not Linux. A prominent example is the KAME project (IPsec and IPv6).

Second, Apple has embraced open source software and it is supporting and contributing to open source projects. Some of the work Apple is contributing directly supports otherwise Linux centric projects, for example KHTML.

Also, it should not be forgotten that Apple sponsored and contributed most of the work on MkLinux. In any event, the impression you try to create with your wording, that Apple is in one boat with Microsoft in resisting open source is nothing more than spin.

EU support for OSS

[Tiiijpei]

There is a lot of support for OSS in Europe, mainly in EU institutions built up in and around Maastricht.
The idea is to create a lot of research centers, not only in tech related issues but in the study of the economics and political impact of OSS as well.
In addition to that, a lot of EU countries, particularly France, Germany, and some parts of Spain are taking big steps towards goverment support for OSS. Schools in Spain are to migrate to linux in 18 months, and there is talk about doing the same in France. France runs quite a bit of its critical infrastructure (computer administrated motorways, nuclear power plants, airport traffic control, etc) on hardened linux systems.
Take a look at the following links if your interested:

http://www.flosspols.org/ http://www.flossproject.org/

They are nothing but war criminals

[Anonymous Coward]

U.S.A. should be given back to indians!

Contrast Japan with Brazil

[synthespian]

Brazil is all talk with the Free Software, with the Lula government and what not, their big bruhaha forums, their highfalutin' Minister of Culture Gilberto Gil and speeches about "empowerement and technology transfer", but no action. No action, that is, except the government hiring consulting firms full of sysadmins that are making big bucks installing FOSS.*

The Brazilian government AFAIK is spending zilch, nada, on developing the code base that will save them millions. It's an exploitative mentality: you use, deploy widely, but don't give anything back. Except to the consulting $ysadmin$.**

I would like to see the Brazilian government spend money on the development of software they'll use. This would be money well spent. It's the sort of investment that actually saves money, becauses it creates better products and tools, and eases installation, deployment, and integration. FOSS depends on having a solid code base. If you're going to use that code base, you might as well pay something for it.*** This goes for individuals and governments, in particular governments who like to shout out loud their support for Free Software. The Japanese government is an example for all to follow.

---

* Many of those guys are, strangely, acquaintances of the individuals on the government. If there's a scam, I don't know, but it sure smells funny. I should know, I know some of them.

** In fact, I'm lying a bit here: there's a small bunch of government employees developing some stuff. But they're too slow, small in numbers and lacking in expertise. And also, there are small research grants. All this sums up to almost nothing. How many times have you read about a big project the Brazilian government funded on FOSS (except the usual replacement of Windows desktops?) For instance, there is a huge opportunity for KDE and GNOME usability studies, a huge oppportunity for office integration via OO.org. Where are they? Not to be found...

*** How much money have _you_ donated to a FOSS entity like GNU or OpenBSD this year, even though _you_ use their software on a daily basis?

Re:Contrast Japan with Brazil

[HishamMuhammad]

Your portrayal of the situation in Brazil is at the very least unfair.

The Brazilian government is spending on developing the code base that will save them millions, but I'm sure government management software does not make Slashdot headlines like "a tool for hacking GTK+". Migrating to a Free Software platform does not involve only installing Linux distros; migrating the actual systems that run on top of the platform is the most substantial work.

Brazilian involvement with Free Software started in my home state, Rio Grande do Sul, where the state government started a big push for free software in its IT agency. The systems of the state's public bank were migrated to free software, and its very pleasant sight to see Tux in the ATM's wallpapers. Incidentally, it is also in Rio Grande do Sul that the International Forum on Free Software takes place (and where the World Social Forum was created). The party who was in state government when these initiatives took place has now won the federal elections, so these developments are now starting to take place in national scale. Brazil spends billions every year in proprietary software licenses -- yes, spend money installing free software is a great move, especially in the long run.

In my personal experience as a Brazilian from Rio Grande do Sul, I can say that the development of a culture of Free Software there is as important as funding coding. The Forums served as a great incentive to the FS project I'm involved with, the GoboLinux distribution, a project born in Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil. It was also in the Forums that I was exposed to another Brazilian Free Software project, the Lua language, which I now took part in my MsC project, funded by -- you guess -- the Brazilian government. So there's your "big project the Brazilian government funded on FOSS". Of course, we could use more research grants, but that's a more general problem of low incentive to science R&D (a recurring problem in the so-called Third World). At least, now, the grants are given by the government with the explicit condition that research results are made available under an OSI-approved license. To me, that's a great thing.

IPA == Japan.inc++

[mamladm]

You are greatly mistaken.

The IPA is a Japanese government agency and as such every bit as bureaucratic as anything else going in Japan Inc.

I know of quite a number of cases where the IPA has turned down to fund interesting open source projects, the kind of projects most Slashdot readers would be very much in favour of.

If you are a small or medium sized business in Japan and you want money from the IPA's program to develop open source, you have to go through a lot of hoops to actually get funded. Most of the money the government has alotted for this progeam isn't spent and it is not for lack of applicants.

If you do decide to apply, you have to prepare an application that most SMEs won't have the expertise to do. They will need to spend $$$ on ex-government officials turned consultants to prepare the application for them.

Then if you do get invited to present your application at the IPA, you will find yourself with 3 or 4 employees of your company in a room with about 15 to 20 Japanese government officials, every one of whom will ask questions that are pretty humiliating for small and medium sized companies.

The tenor is pretty much like "Who the heck are you guys? Is three people all you can muster? How big is your company? Have you done this before? Have you got any backing by big corporations with recognised names and brands?"

The smaller your company, the more likely your application will be judged not on its own merits but on prejudice against anything small and without a big name.

The IPA program may look different on the outset but under the surface it is just the same old way of Japan Inc.

Re:IPA == Japan.inc++

[Doc Ruby]

I'm not surprised to hear your take on the IPA. I'd be surprised if the IPA were the only (or rare) gov't agency in Japan throwing off the straitjacket of their ancient state capitalist miracle that's kept their economy moribund for longer (18 years) than their "miracle" lasted (~1972-1987). But do you have actual stats on who's gotten the money? I'd hate to be unreasonably disappointed in my unreasonable optimism :).

FWIW, in the US, government tech grant programs also require onerous application/reporting work that generates a whole "consultant class" of parabureaucrats. Unless you're a big company, you don't have the management bandwidth or extra budget to service the grant programme requirements. And, in my experience, the consultants marketing to small biz suck, and are actually pretty rare - the big corps drain any brains in their whole industry. This whole entrepreneurial socialism game is really oxygen-free.

Engrish?

[danharan]

an extra-departmental organization of Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry of Japan has been supported open source software development.

Please tell me that sentence came out of an automatic translation service.

Hey, aren't EDITORS supposed to PROOFREAD?

Re:Engrish?

[yanyan]

Hey, aren't EDITORS supposed to PROOFREAD?

You must be new here.

This is exactly why tax exists.

[Anonymous Coward]

The idea behind tax is to get everyone to foot the bill for things that benefit everyone. Using tax money to build a program is in theory no different than using it to building a road.

How do we pay for it? Simply replace the "windows tax" with a real one.

As long as they don't botch the implementation, I'm all for it.

And the question remains: is it better to fund existing developers or hire more?

Open Government - Full Stop

[TractorBarry]

Well I for one believe that Governments should develop nothing but Open Source products. As a taxpayer I'm paying the wages of the coders so I should be able to utilise the fruits of their labour.

Not to mention the fact that once one government has developed something all governments can benefit from the work too. Maybe this will lead to lower taxes worldwide ;) ?

My personal view is that all Govermnets activities should be fully accountable and a citizen should have access to all information held by the Government. The only exceptions being data relating to current military activities, ongoing criminal investigations, and the identities of witnesses in past criminal cases. If someone is hiding something it's because it's dodgy. Full stop.

Being a UK citizen I view this in the same way that I view programming created by the BBC. I've paid for the work to be performd (via the licence fee) so I should be free to download them when I like, reencode them to new formats etc. etc.

If I'm paying for something I have the right to use it. If not don't ask me to pay for it.

And speaking of the BBC the first episode of the new Dr Who is on tonight. Fantastic !!!

Govenment funding

[Game Genie]

How do you think about governments' funding OSS developments(by tax)?

I for one welcome our new funding-projects-for-the-public-good-overlords. Wait, isn't that what government is supposed to be doing anyway? Sure, the right wing may not agree, but those are the same people that want to kiss Bill Gates' ass untill it turns red.

Seriously though, just as long as governments carefully consider the licences that they will allow, I think this is great.

Not bad, HORRIBLE

[WaxParadigm]

"Free" is probably the worst term one could choose to describe funding OSS via tax monies. I see no valid reason to fund OSS using taxpayer money.

First, tax monies should not fund things that are obviously able to be funded privately as OSS is (lots of individual, non-profit, and coporate support and funding).

Second, we should be VERY careful in selecting what to fund with tax in order to minimize what is funded with taxes because of the associated burden and consequences. People who don't pay 100% of the tax they owe are likely to face criminal charges and have their personal posessions confiscated. Is funding of OSS so important that people should face these consequences for not funding it?

Third, if something is funded that could otherwise be funded by the normal free market, it is artificially supported by the government and is likely to always require that support. There are many things that can seem good or be made to sound that way by politicians (farm subsidies, steel tarriffs, other forms of corporate welfare) but in the end they remove the realities of the market from those activities with serious consequences (farm subsidies make things like cotton prices artificially low, hurting domestic and foreign farmers...steel tariffs insulate domestic steel companes so they don't have to learn how to compete in the global market and make domestic steel prices high with a ripple effect into manufacturing, without this competition they learn to depend on the tariffs...etc). OSS does not need tax funding, should not get tax funding, and should not want tax funding (less OSS becomes dependent on and becomes subject to politicians).

It's just a bad idea all around and will lessen personal freedoms (economic freedom and thus other freedoms as well) and would create a socialist environment around OSS instead of the competitive, choice, and capitalist environment which has and will continue to allow OSS to exist and thrive (and do so based on it's merits).

Re:Not bad, HORRIBLE

[soniCron88]

I think that you made some good points. However, I think you're overestimating the impact it would really have. Open source is a hot topic right now with the public because Linux is gaining such popularity. In addition to that, to most IT people (programmers, network administrators, hobbyists, doesn't matter), Open Source is a big deal. It's hard to imagine that to a large majority of the world, nobody cares about OSS. They barely know what it means. Typically, they just know Linux is somehow related to it.

No, I don't think that funding open source software is a corporate killer. I don't think it'll turn us into a socialist state. I don't think that a lot of the horrible things you envision happening ever would. In fact, I see exactly the oppostite.

I forsee the open source community upset because they're not getting funded enough. The government would never pump so much money into it to topple the economy, let alone to make the oss community satisfied. But the government paying for something that is inherintly good is...well...inherintly good. The government pays for artists to sit around and paint all day. They're not paying for the entire art communtiy. They haven't destroyed the field of commercial art. In fact, all they've done is further, even if through few people, artistic exploration. The same could be said about writers, musicians, and many other art forms.

Some programmers like to think of themselves as techno-monsters and find it hard to grasp that what they do all the time is an artform. It's a much more scientific artform, but there are strong aspects of art and creativity involved than most would care to admit.

Would the government paying to support OSS drive unnaturraly low prices into the software industry? Possibly in certain areas. I'm sure libraries cut into book sales somewhat. But nobody would ever (intelligently) suggest getting rid of libraries.

Japan's OSS/FS contributions/activity

[ghostunit]

Anyone knows the state of the OSS/FS movement in Japan? is there a significant number of developers working for this movement in Japan? what are they working on? Only think I know is that the Ruby language was made in Japan and that cell-phone tech is quite open over there.

Ruby

[pixelcort]

There's also Ruby.

Re:Ruby

[rubycodez]

also, the project for the bytecode ruby machine YARV is supported by IPA.

Re:OSS != Linux.. The Angel Singeth

[Anonymous Coward]

aw come on. what and where the fuck is Apple?.

we're talking about PUBLIC COMPUTING here, not some rare nonportable iLifestyle OS - arguably a highly regulated ticket for selling fucking whitegoods.

for god sakes Apple is a gimmick, a so-called luxury good, it benefits a flashy, fashion (self)conscious upper middle class population and from the perspective of any one that actually CARES about their countries well being, as a growing, self nourishing entity.. it's TOTALLY IRRELLEVANT. you're a joke.

FYI Apple (my brother works for them) stipulates in employee contracts that they are NOT ALLOWED to work on OSS projects while they work for the company.. say your hail mary's and go back to bed.

BS Alert [Was: Re:Not bad, HORRIBLE]

[Jorgensen]

Rubbish. If I pay for something (indirectly) using my Tax Dollars (actually: in my case: Pounds Sterling), I want to be able to use it. If I have to pay a 2nd time, how is that better?

You seem to assume that OSS is outside "the normal free market" - I cannot see any basis for that assumption. OSS will not depend on state funding: If the state does *not* "buy" (for want of a better word) OSS, this does not mean the end of OSS. Rather the opposite appears to be the case: OSS operates in the same market as non-OSS software. And competition there is *good* isn't it?

Comparing farm subsidies with my tax money funding OSS development is a bad analogy - after all the state (i.e. all of us) get the end product. We're not talking about artificially lowering prices - just a more efficient manufacturing process...

And how on earth can that *lessen* personal freedoms? I'd be interested in seeing your arguments for that, as they seem to be missing completely from your post. Without those arguments, your doomsday predictions are worthless...

Open source is the meteor storm...

[Kazoo the Clown]

that is killing off the dinosaurs...

The computer is far too important to businesses, governments and organizations to leave it to Cretaceous market-protecting tyrants, and more and more people are becoming acutely aware of it.

The real fear should be what is going to happen when these tyrants mutate and start looking for ways to work within Open Source system. Do you really want Microsoft contributing source code to anything?

Re:OSS != Linux.. The Angel Singeth

[delire]

stipulates in employee contracts that they are NOT ALLOWED to work on OSS projects while they work for the company

Errm wrong. I think you mean that Apple coders aren't allowed to work on their own OSS projects - which I read somwhere (others may be able to verify). Apple do extend a few existing OSS projects, I think they even initiated one or two or their own.

There's been some debate however whether they've done KHTML any good though, developed so fast that the KDE team couldn't merge the (poorly documented) patches. Some see it as the beginning of a fork or a slow death for the project for the very ironic reason of too much development to fast..

You've got to be kidding me...

[pipegeek]

I, for one, strongly support grass internationalization.

Re:You've got to be kidding me...

[nadaou]

That is the i18n of the GRASS GIS software.

http://grass.ibiblio.org/devel/i18n.php

US Dept of Energy asks for Open Source

[sunhou]

Today I just submitted a research grant proposal to the US Department of Energy, in their "Multiscale Mathematics in Research and Education" program. If you look at their proposal guidelines, near the end under "The evaluation under item 2", they talk about making materials available to the public as open source. I was happy to see it, as I have made some software available from my previous research available in this way, and plan to do so again in the future on my new projects. I'll have to wait many months to see if they fund my current project proposal, though...

Re:Well...

[Anonymous Coward]

GRASS GIS: http://grass.ibiblio.org