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Girls Got Game
Via Joystiq, a story on the ABC News site discussing the (gasp) rising interest in games within the fairer sex. From the article: "I think it's easy to kind of stereotype that women don't want to shoot or that women don't want to do sports or that women don't want fast-paced action...I don't think that's true. I think that was part of the reason the industry wasn't speaking to women before." As Mr. Zackheim comments, I believe it more to be a lack of interest/effort on the gaming publisher's part that has resulted in the current player demographic profile.
that girls aren't gaming, it's just that they're not publicized as if they gamed, remember the gamer stereotype is a geek with glasses, though that is changing.
my girlfriend was COMPLETELY uninterested in playing world of warcraft until i told her that you could accessorize. she could be a cute elf with a really tasteful cloak and matching gloves!
then she was just uninterested. not COMPLETELY uninterested, but pretty uninterested.
One of my female friends who is studying to get into the gaming industry believes that some girl gamers, particulary those in development roles, push other girls away. She backs this up by saying that the majority of girl gamers (that she observes) play games "like men."
She thinks that there is probably a greater percentage of girls who enjoy games like The Sims or many MMORPGames, and I happen to agree. She further thinks that if there were more games like this brought to the market that focused on girls then there would be more girls in games (both developing and playing), as opposed to the girls who play FPS and other primarily male-orientated games.
I'm reluctant to agree, as I'm not a girl, but I still find it an intersting viewpoint.
The eternal struggle of good vs. evil begins within one's self.
My wife loves the Delta Force series and Call of Duty. She's getting better, too... I'm trying to convince her to come to the next LAN party with me.
...?
1. Realize you're leaving out 50% of the market.
2. Ask this "left-out" segment if they like your product.
3.
4. Profit!
Windows isn't the answer... it's the question. NO is the answer!
I really doubt the kind of games that sell now will ever be taken up en masse by females. This almost sounds like feminism to me. Women are equal to men, I think most would agree. But, why is women gaming so important? If women don't game as much as men (by choice, mind you), does that mean there is some great imbalance and injustice? Are women less equal for some reason if they don't play games?
The whole medium of video games was based in the early days on fast reflexes and\or puzzle solving (mainstream I'm talking about, I know about text games, but they weren't huge sellers, were they?). Why can't people accept that maybe for whatever reason, puzzle solving and finger twitching might not appeal to most women, and that doesn't mean their any less equal to guys if it doesn't.
Heh...
I find it sort of funny that a girl is gaming right next to me. PLaying stepmania on her laptop.
Of course, she also plays RPGs and MMORPGs and, like the article mentioned, Sims2.
I find it funny, though, that they talk about stereotypes... And then almost perpetuate them. Anecdotes != proof, but aside from FFXI and then one of my friends playing Sims... None of my female gaming friends fit the stereotype. They all play action games, and most of them love RE (Which, you know, is mentioned... But to me, those seemed to be portrayed as the exceptions to the rule in the article. *shrug*).
(Again, funnier, she turns to me and mentions how she beat her boyfriend in Halo over the weekend. Hahah...)
MY wife plays games all the time, she plays ET with me, bloodrayne, Half Life 1&2 and we have both played countless MMORPG's. The interesting thing is that she will only play the MMORPG's without me, the other games she won't touch unless I am around. I think many women do this, and with how many guys play a female char in MMORPG's its hard to truly understand how many females are playing, but rest assured that I know of plenty, it just takes teh right game to bring the females in :)
**It runs through my veins like radioactive rubber pants! Do not deny my veins!**
Does anyone know where I could get a gender breakdown on game sales by gender, especially for Japanese companies?
It seemed to me that gamer culture was a bit more girl-friendly in Japan than in the States - I would guess Nintendo is probobly the company with the highest female player ratio, but does anyone know for sure?
within the fairer sex.
What does the term "the fairer sex" mean anyways? Are males unfairer? I dun get it.
I was quite surprised to learn recently that 40% of PS2 gamers were female. Mostly children and teens, but even so, I had expected the numbers to be way more seriously skewed. Based on my completely scientific analysis of the people I know, it sure seems that the adult gamers are still very much predominately male though.
What more could anyone want?
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
For whatever reason, these types of articles or comments always put me into this semi-amused/semi-annoyed mood, as if girl-gamers are so difficult to figure out.
The PS2 and the Cube are *mine*; they do not belong to my brother. Of course, my game library contains "typical attractive to female gamers" games (RPGs), but on the Mac, I can hold my own. My Scintillating Sphere saved our arses last night when we were playing through NWN, and I've brought the flag over to our side a few times in Elite Force. I may not be into the war games of which my brother is so fond, or the whole 'Rainbow-6' genre like my brother, but I do like the sci-fi FPS. I even liked Oni, a shame what happened to Bungie... I also happen to be a regular on a gaming forum, but I'm one of two female regulars.
I play the SIMS, but my brother plays it more than I do since there's a distinct lack of magic missiles in that game. I didn't play FFX-2.
So how hard can it be? But then, perhaps I fall into 'atypical', seeing as how I'm the only one at the store who can recognise that the shirts a regular customer of ours wears come from ThinkGeek.
I'm not a girl, so I could be completely off the mark, but here goes.
One of the largest problems facing female gamers is not the misogyny of the games, but the misogyny of the male gamers.
I am involved with a small, close-knit gaming group that runs a public CS:Source server.
The group has three female members who play and the amount of bullshit they have to put up with is completely unreasonable. When players realize that they are female, they either a.) attempt to flirt with them (positive attention) or b.) harass them sexually or otherwise (negative attention). We (the admins) are CONSTANTLY punishing players for this behavior.
I am by no means an extreme feminist; however, that sort of muppetry is just inexcusable. I'm inclined to make a comment about how geeks simply can't handle being around women; however, this sort of vapid generalization is simply not true. We joke about how geeks are not socially adept and cannot get a date to save their lives; however, I think at the lowest common denominator, most geeks know that it's not appropriate to sexually harass women.
So why is it acceptable on a CS:Source server to "haze" women?
Yeah, I know. CS:Source is not exactly a collection of fine, upstanding gamers; however, to counter that argument, which game *IS*? Every game has its share of asshats, griefers, and complete fucktards of different ages. My point is that this behavior is not limited to CS:Source. I see it in ET, WoW, and Dawn of War as well.
Most mornings, I wake up early and play basketball at a local high school with an assorted collection of individuals. Among our numbers is one female player. Never ONCE has she been sexually harassed or hazed simply because she is a woman. As a matter of fact, she played hoop at a Division I school. To play her is a challenge and everyone respects her talent.
Why are these two scenarios so different, when essentially, it's the same thing?
Does the gaming industry need to grow up in order to suit the needs of female gamers? Honestly, I don't know. I'm not a female gamer.
I think male gamers need to grow up and respect that video games are not a male-oriented arena and that female gamers are not some sort of mythical creature that should be harassed, positively or negatively.
Respect It.
Is there some sort of Slashdot Law that states whenever the topic of girls and gaming comes up, there must immediately be a link to that article? Give it a rest.
Forget the whales - save the babies.
I wonder if all the hopeless geeks out there might actually start learning how to talk to a girl if suddenly the girl is going head to head with them on equal footing.
I've been in quite a few teams in City of Heroes where the majority of members were female, and not only was the conversation a nice change of pace, but the teamwork was fantastic.
And as a side note, one of my requirements for any future girlfriends is that they need to be able to kick my ass in at least ONE video game.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
This is just personal experience, but I remember many girls into video games when I was a kid and games were 2D. The first home system I ever played was an Atari 2600, and it belonged to a girl.
I think that the move to 3D gaming may be partly responsible for fewer girls playing games. In studies I've read about the differences between women and men, generally they all say that we're about the same EXCEPT that men are better at 3D thinking. From thisarticle that I quickly Googled, "...Men perform better on some cognitive tests, like visualizing 3D objects. Women tend to have greater verbal abilities..."
I'm no expert, but if this is correct and applicable, women are on average at a disadvantage with modern 3D games.
One thing, which I think might go a long way in not pissing off female games is, change some of the character and NPC models. My fiancee and I are playing through Everquest: Champions of Norrath on the PS2 right now, and some of the female NPC's are absolutly ridiculous. For example, one of the NPC's you come across is a female vampire who is, of course, wearing a thong, a see through sarrong, and two metal nipple caps where a bra might be. And to top it off, the voice acting sounds like it was done by a porn star. She sends you off on a quest to find a "Bloodvine." From the way she talked about it, I think it was really just a code name for a vibrator. And when we brought it back and actually ate it, I was even more convinced that the "Bloodvine" was a code name for a really damn good vibrator. It sounded a lot like a porn actress faking an orgasm while she ate it. And this is about the level of the female voice acting throughout the game. Before this, we had Baldur's Gate: Dark Alligence 1 & 2. In one, if that barmaid had breathed wrong, she would have had to charge us for the peep show. And of course we had to beat down a dark elf in a string bikini. Who, once again, seemed to be voice acted by a porn star and even broke into an impromptu pole dance on her quaterstaff during the cutscean. Two was actually unmemorable enough that I don't recall any specific instances, but I do know that they were there.
Why is it that the fantasy genere insists on doing this to female characters. I realize that its not new, even D&D did this, but isn't it time we grew up? Yes, I like pictures of women in chain mail bikini's, but lets leave that sort of stuff to Boris Valejo and hentai.
Let's face it, if a woman had a choice between the metal thong and a more practical, and infinatly more comfortable set of armor which one do you think she would choose?
Necessity is the mother of invention.
Laziness is the father.
However what this have to do with gaming? If you make this a 100% skill where men got it perfect and women don't have it at all then all it would mean is that women could not edit the skins for 3D objects that is so popular in modding. That after all requires you to "see" where the pixels on the flat skin are going to end up on the 3D model.
It has no relation with 3d gaming since no study has shown that women are less adapt at moving around in a 3D world (kinda like the one outside your eyes). No parking jokes please.
Also more women play now then in the days of 2D gaming.
So the difference is very real but it just doesn't relate to gaming. If you don't believe me take such a teste and then play a FPS game and try to find such a test in it. Only 3D tetris would be slightly harder for women. Running around Brothers in Arms would not.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
One picture probably isn't a large enough sample to make a valid opinion
My girlfriend has more consoles then me (I cancel that by having more then 10 computers)... and her and her sister beat Halo 2 (I helped I guess). We have conversations like this:
"On the plane to florida I saw this kid that had a PSP"
"Cooool"
"I also met this surfer boy and he asked me to be his surfer girl"
"Did he have a PSP?"
"No...."
"You trying to get me jealous?"
"Yes...."
"Not working"
"You'd be jealous if it really happened..."
"I'm jealous of the guy with the PSP"
"Yeah me too"
Nuff said. She's awesome. She's tried to play with some of her other girl friends but they just plain.. stink. I dunno if that's becuase she's good or if they are horrible.
I for one welcome our girl gamer overlords.
You have been warned.
FWIW, I avoid networked, multiplayer games for this reason. After a long day grinding it out with others at work, the last thing I want is to grind it out with yet more people online.
"Play is the only way the highest intelligence of humankind can unfold." -- Joseph Chilton Pearce
want to suck it? MMMMMMM oohh yeah you do, thats a good girl... now play with my balls while you're at it... MMMMM yeah...
My sister was pretty happy to see the report, even though it was old news, because she gamed a lot growing up (still has any plays her Dreamcast), until the commentary afterwards. The two female hosts were playing The Sims II, and instead of getting into any of the game mechanics or showing the sim aspects they spent two minutes accessorising one sim. Because, y'know, the only reason the women are interested in the game is because they accessorise the clothing. Aghast, my sister flipped the station.
If ABC didn't have their heads so far up their asses to see their colons, they would have given this growing demographic some credit. Instead, I think they might be producing a lot of hate-mail (of which my sister's email will be one of them).
Yes -- I'm always amazed at how themainstream media "discovers" girl gamers every few months. Although, every year when I go to E3 (the big games trade show), plenty of industry professionals are surprized by the women's gaming angle as well.
I always mention this, so the best source out there for mainstream girls gaming news is http://www.gamegal.com/.
I agree fully as well. Every single time there is a story about girls and such, someone has to link to that stupid article about the Rez and the vibrator. Have you Slashdot nerds run out of ideas? I see that most of you who do link to that site have been doing it for at least 2 years now! Give it a rest!
It is either that or linking to a Penny Arcade article. Get lives you idiots
I have a life, not your life, but then again I doubt I would want to get your life.
Well personally I love gaming. I'm just not a huge fan of killing stuff. I've noticed that most games in the end are a blood hunt. I play games with invold killing things ...www.game.org...mmm TEXT ...
But personally I'd rather not see huge amounts of blood all over my screen. I REALLY wish that game makers would make a few more games today like the old (early 90s lates 80s) Day of the Tentical or Zork, Monkey Island(all of them) and Loom. (No not Doom, Loom). IE collect tons of dumb stuff and puzzel it together WITHOUT the need to kill more then a few plants. It's the type of game even my sister who thinks gaming is almost evil can't help but enjoy for hours.
Life is like untied shoe laces; it always tripping you up and getting in your way.
The essential dividing line between "girl games" and "boy games" has nothing to do with gender, it has to do with ancillary activity. Women *like* ancillary activities. While most men would start a game and just focus on how to make their onscreen persona accomplish the goal, most women prefer to experience the game in much greater detail. But until recent years, we haven't really had much to offer in the way of ancillary activity, because we had to squeeze and strain to get the game's core into the tiny amount of memory we had.
Essentially, older games simply weren't good enough for women to care about them. We're not tapping into some previously unknown market, we're just edging onto the radar of a more discerning consumer.
Microsoft cheerleader, blue flag waving, you got a problem with that?
Okay, so let's append Godwin's Law then.
Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Another said she likes the competitive element: "I like beating my boyfriend."
I'm sure he likes it too.
thats it babe.... oooh.... i love it when you talk all dirty like that... yeah... youre a bad girl huh.... oooooooh yeah...
Seriously, once again they've come up with this patent nonsense. First, battery enhancing stickers and now girls? Might as well just make a new section: Hokum and Flim-flam, just put women under there with bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster.
Is it really good to get news from a site that still only has *PREVIEWS* of games like Wind Waker?
Why is everyone obsessed with wether girls want to play games? Who the hell cares? Take football for an example, either one. You don't see girls painting their faces and helping empty the keg, now do you? And does anybody care? No! Why the hell should we care if girls want to participate in games? Ever been to a lan party? It's a guy thing. Girls have makeovers and whatever else they do for fun. If they don't like it, last I checked, it's not like they check your ID to make sure you're male at Babbages.
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Because, for most of the posters here, that's the only way they're ever going to meet a girl. Period.
I believe it more to be a lack of interest/effort on the gaming publisher's part that has resulted in the current player demographic profile.
Kingdom Hearts: A story of teenage love and princesses.
Or Dark Cloud 2, where there was a boy and a girl playable character, and you had to play with both.
Metal Gear Solid 2, with the girly-man player character (eye candy?) with the super-realistic girlfriend (she keeps calling you all the time to talk about your relationship, keeps asking you what you're thinking of, if you love her, etc).
But, more importantly, why should we care if chicks want to game or not? Some do, some don't. Trying to change games to fit a different demographic than current gamers just crapyfies the game. Grow up, let the gamer chicks play games, and stop trying to squeeze revenue out of every demographic you can think of: It's not healthy.
You can't take the sky from me...
"You don't see girls painting their faces and helping empty the keg, now do you?" "Ever been to a lan party? It's a guy thing. Girls have makeovers and whatever else they do for fun." You, Sir, are a sexist son of a bitch. "whatever else they do for fun"? Not only are you sexist your stupid. Have YOU ever been to a LAN party? Go to any major LAN party in the United States and you WILL see woman there. Just maybe if you left your parents basement every now and then you would know that. What is the deal with "You don't see girls painting their faces and helping empty the keg, now do you?" First off, YES I have seen girls paint their faces. And secondly, are you trying to tell me you've never seen a girl drink beer? Yes, they will indeed go for the keg. I seriously doubt what type of gamer you are, as well as your character.(And I don't mean your Dungeons and Dragons character.)
Society never gets more or less violent, the definition of violent just keeps changing.
"And I don't mean your Dungeons and Dragons character"
Aw come on. I agree with your statements to the parent poster but you don't need to combat sexism with another stereotype. I played lots of D&D when I was a kid. I don't live in my parents basement. I have actually dated women and had sex and even produced offspring.
In fact the last person I knew who still played Dungeons and Dragons was a 30 year old married woman.
Sometimes my arms bend back.
In reading this article, my fiance and I had to laugh. He's a software engineer and I'm an astronomy major and while he plays video games on a more...devoted level, I play too.
MMORPG's? FFXI, beta tested Guild Wars and the Matrix
RPGs? Too many to count.
I play a multitude of games and never diss a game I've never tried (except for Barbie's Horse Adventure. I mean, come on) but I dislike the sims. It's just a personal opinion but I'd rather play Dynasty Warriors or GTA rather than the Sims. I was even chastized by my mother on why don't I play more 'girly' games in my younger days.
Irony that game devolopers just realized they were missing women.
Oh, I'm sorry, you must not be from West Michigan. I guess you're right. There was one girl at the last lan I went to. She served food and handled the registration.
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It doesn't hold a huge amount of relevance, however it is easy to see the greatly increasing female population of gamers through MMRPGs. A female friend of mine recently got World of Warcraft, and the 3rd thing she did imediatly after setting up her account was running around asking everyone if they were female in person, and upon finding all the ones that were in her area continued to attempt to band them all together. Online gaming is slowly begining to reflect a major female quality of sticking together due to the common tie of sex, as opposed to most guys who just grunt and join the union.
oooh so stereotyping may not turn out to be accurate.....AMAZING!
:(
too bad we all should know this already
I KUT J00 M4NG!!!
So...
Women like to play the same games as men, but somehow, at the same time, the "industry wasn't speaking to women"?
I never have frustrations, the reason is, to wit:
If at first I don't succeed, I quit!
In my experience, this phenomenon is not just limited to the world of video gaming. I like real-life games far more than I like Counterstrike or Starcraft (which, I assure you, is a lot.) My favourites tend to be games that make both players think a lot and set them up as adversaries. This includes complex games like Risk or Shogun, but also abstract games, such as Quarto or Chess. I have very rarely encountered girls who enjoyed these games, however. I have, however, encountered many girls who find great enjoyment in more social games, particularly party games -- Pictionary, Taboo, Trivial Pursuit, Apples to Apples. In my opinion, these games require less intense thought, which translates to a more casual experience, and take less time, which yields a wider variety of experiences. These observations are analogous to the findings with video games, in which women are typically found to prefer games that emphasize socialization, relationships, and cooperation.
Virtue finds and chooses the mean.
Aristotle, Ethica Nichomachea
He may not be from West Michigan, but I am... And I know plenty of women who game, including my girlfriend, and her sister-in-law, as well as quite a few when I was in college. But I disagree about you being sexist; my guess is you're just a jackass.
How am I supposed to kick my husband's a$$ if I don't practice?
Yeah, I play DnD too. I was just upset at the time of writing that so it got thrown in there.
Society never gets more or less violent, the definition of violent just keeps changing.
I seriously doubt what type of gamer you are, as well as your character.(And I don't mean your Dungeons and Dragons character.)
Seriously, I'm a female gamer AND I play and GM D&D AND I do plenty of other gaming (computer, console, tabletop, LARP, board, word, etc...) You're stereotyping is as bad as the OPs.
Sara
Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
They have been pretty good about picking hit games, the popularity of chat avatars among women and girls in korea makes this game a good bet http://www.ncsoft.com/eng/ncgames/al_intro.asp my anecdotal experience is that korean women are online as much as korean men. this may just be the vehicle to turn them on to gaming.