D&D Blamed For Stabbing Deaths

Grymalkin writes "A man is in custody for allegedly stabbing 3 people to death in King of Prussia, PA last week. Now it appears that the district attorney believes there may be a link between the murders and the Dungeons and Dragons RPG. From the article: 'I mean, you have many, many stab wounds and those 'Dungeons and Dragons' fantasy games involve swords and knives and daggers and things of that nature. There may be a connection but I can't say for sure.'" Wow. There are a lot more D&D players than I thought there were, what with all the stabbings and all.

Comments

So that means...

[Durinthal]

All vehicular homicides can be connected to Nascar, right?

Re:So that means...

[Fjandr]

Of course. Also, anyone who runs from the police.

"Well, what we have here is a high-speed chase. Nascar has a lot of drivers going really fast, and things of that nature, so there might be a connection here."

Re:So that means...

[sgant]

Jesus saves...everyone else takes 2d20 crushing damage.

Re:So that means...

[vettemph]

So who do you blame when the get-away car makes a right hand turn?

Re:So that means...

[walt-sjc]

Um, you DO know the history of Nascar, right? FYI, it was started by moonshine runners - they were really good drivers, and frequently were involved in high-speed chases. These drivers decided to compete against each other too for fun. Nascar was born.

But back the the FA... these linkages to games / TV / etc. are just stupid. If anyone would bother to do the study on it, I bet they would find bad parenting is the number one factor in a persons tendancy to become violent / anti-social / exhibit criminal behavior.

Re:So that means...

[Keith Russell]

Watkins Glen and Sears Point raceways.

Re:So that means...

[Keith Russell]

No, I mean Sears Point. I also mean Candlestick Park, Comiskey Park, Laguna Seca, Jack Murphy Stadium, and Pittsburgh Civic Arena. Fsck naming rights. They didn't pay me to call it some corporate name.

Stab wounds...

[0x461FAB0BD7D2]

Personally, I blame Chris Rock's guns-for-knives program.

The DA is clearly just an attention whore.

Well atleast its not computer games this time

[FidelCatsro]

"I mean, you have many, many stab wounds and those 'Dungeons and Dragons' fantasy games involve swords and knives and daggers and things of that nature. There may be a connection but I can't say for sure."

? How the hell did this man get a law degree , Seriously it may have something to do with D&D , though the evidence is um ,well,, if that is all they have to link it to D&D, then may i sugest the motive could have been related to pumping up a football , as that has lots of thrusting motions involved if you use a hand pump.

On a more serious note , The man obviously has some serious psychological issues of which i have no doubt contributed to these murders , the only reason the D&D link should be brought up is in establishing motive if you want to have the man released to the care of a mental health ward .

Games do not turn people into psychotic killing machines , they may however shape the style but if it was not the game it would have been some other influence .Jack the ripper was never known to play counter strike ,Charlie manson Never played Mortal kombat.

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[dasunt]

Everyone knows that D&D only caused murders in the 1980s.

In the 1990s, it was metal music.

In the post-2000 world, Grand Theft Auto is the cause of all crime.

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[Anonymous Coward]

How the hell did this man get a law degree

Don't forget, you're living in a country that encourages its lawyers to twist any legislation available to their advantage (and there is a ton of legislation to choose from), encourages poor standards of education that help guarantee (amongst other things) putting twelve idiots into jury boxes, encourages near-radical anti-anything UnChristian to help whip up the public fervour about such an issue, and also involves a cult of personality surrouding a leader who's putting people with this sort of ideological bent at the TOP of the legal food chain.

The idiot with the law degree is a symptom of a MUCH bigger problem.

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[FidelCatsro]

No im not ;) , Im living in germany and im from Scotland . In Germany we just have dodgy political decisions on baning the posesions of WW2 memorbelia , yet allowing Neo-Nazi scum to march .
Idiot lawyers though are a world problem , however we have far better safe gaurds against them in civils case's at least.

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[Seumas]

Fortunately, good old religion never causes people to do strange things like this. If we must restrict by age or ban entirely games, movies and pencil and paper RPGs, then we must ban bibles of every religion as well.

There are countless recent events where people have directly claimed that religion and/or religious material lead them to the violent acts they took.

There's the guy who held a gun store up by knife point so he could use the stolen gun to go rescule Terri Schaivo. He said, to the gun store owner, that god was with him and that he was either with god or against him in rescuing Terri.

Then there's all the people in the last couple of years who have chopped off their children's arms and legs, filled a little girl's stomach full of bleach and then sat on her until she died (for having sex), stoned a girl to death, chained a girl to a treat as punishment for sex and that guy who offed his wife, child and himself because he believed the end is near. All in the name of religion.

Any time some conservative or religious nutcase tries to tell you all of these other things must be controlled, suggest to him that the same applies to his own propaganda and that he should settle up his own house before hypocritically lobbing grenades into the camp of others.

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[Alsee]

In the 2010's Scrabble will be the cause of all sorts of crime.

District attorney Duce Dastor: I mean, we got this ransom note, and those 'Scrabble' games involve words and letters and vowels and things of that nature. There may be a connection but I can't say for sure.

-

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[mjpaci]

Back in 2000 or 2001 a man by the name of Mucko took a couple of guns to work and killed 7, I think, of his co-workers. A couple of days later, the Boston Herald had a story about the investigation and what police found at his apartment:

Books on depression
Medication for various mental disorders ... ... ... ...and Dungeons and Dragons books.

They didn't go so far as to SAY there was a connection to the killings, but they were kind of pulling you in that direction.

THE MAN IS A NERD! OF COURSE HE HAD D&D STUFF.

--Mike

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[Alsee]

Seriously it may have something to do with D&D

Nope, it almost certainly isn't D&D.

Here is a second source for the story. Philadelphia Inquirer.

Many of Still's friends, including Eichinger, were also involved in "role-playing games" that are like the Dungeons & Dragons game.

Games like D&D. Wording that almost certainly means that they did not play D&D. Anyone want to wager on whether the RPG they were playing didn't even revolve around swords and knives? Perhaps a game more focused on laser pistols and blasters or something? Chuckle.

Of course his homicidal motivation was obviously caused by D&D...

Eichinger allegedly killed Still for the same reasons that motivated him to murder Heather Greaves, his former coworker at an Upper Merion Acme, prosecutors said - he had wanted a romantic relationship but had been rejected.
"And he was jealous because they had other boyfriends," Castor said.

Yep, damn RPGs and all that sex. Chuckle.

-

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[Haeleth]

How the hell did this man get a law degree?

You must have a really good spam filter, if you can't even hazard a guess.

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[grub]

Superstition is the lazy way out of reason. I get that insignificant feeling when looking at the stars through my telescope, that doesn't lead me to believe that there's an invisible man deciding the fate of all those points of light.

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[rmccann]

I read a very good article about violence and computer games. It mentioned that throughout the last centuary there has always been somethat that is corrupting tht youth. First cinema in 1920s, then comic books in the 1950s, etc..

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[theMerovingian]

Hmmm... I am both a Christian and a video gamer/D&D player. That stuff is just inane fun, and it only adversely affects people who have trouble distinguishing fiction from reality. I can guarantee there have been crazy people willing to kill, steal, rape, and commit heinous crimes LONG before the advent of RPG's. To assume otherwise is a logical fallacy.

In the same vein, some of these very same crazy people mentally associate themselves with the forms of religion. Jesus even said that there is a parallel between the amount we forgive others, and the amount that God forgives us. Obviously it is not scripturally accurate to kill or steal with a perverse notion of social justice.

I guess with this long-winded reply that no one will probably read, I'm just saying that certain people are willing to commit violent crimes, and will make up reasons to justify it in their head.

Ultimately, the best we can do as a society is to raise our children well, help those in poverty, and make sure that our prison system is focused on reform and individual improvements rather than simple incarceration.

It makes me sick to see people treat others so poorly, and you are right to be horrified at these violent crimes. It is in no way keeping with the teachings or life of Jesus, and in fact Jesus would be among the first to condemn such actions.

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[ABaumann]

Well, wasn't that what was happening back in Jesus' time? You had the religious leaders condemning anyone and everyone. Jesus came along and said, "You're all screwed up and need help. If you loved me, you'd try not to do anything to make me sad, but hey, I understand nobody's perfect ...except for me."

Expected troll:
Something along the line of "yeah, those fictional characters rock." (Although Jesus's existance and history have been backed by many sources. The only disparate part is whether or not he was ressurected.)

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[Creepy]

no, D&D only caused mass suicides in the 1980s - murders by goth cults didn't happen until the 1990s.

Heavy metal has been the primary source of murder since the 1970s - we all know that Lemmy of Motorhead himself kills 100-200 every concert and his roadies work in conjuction with the CIA and Jimmy Hoffa to cover it up by donating all the spilt blood and bodies to GWAR. Violent video games are the source of all murder, especially if they have a metal soundtrack - like that Prince of Persia, Warrior Within game. GTA isn't the only cause of theft - you can't forget games like Thief, a game that also promotes diabolism. GTA is pure evil, as your main character fornicates with unchaste women and then shoots, and even depicts pre-marital sex, a horrific act that constitutes stiff $5 fines and/or 90 days in jail in some states with powerful and moral blue laws. Its also a well known fact that Osama bin Laden has an underground bunker where his minions play video games and D&D and listen to a mix of heavy metal and country music to harden them to their homicidal and suicidal cause.

--

there are probably nutbags out there that take me seriously...

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[Admiral Ackbar 8]

Any time some conservative or religious nutcase

Oh wait! This just in, there are liberal nutcases too: Hillary Clinton bashes GTA

... and I quote: "Children are playing a game that encourages them to have sex with prostitutes and then murder them. This is a silent epidemic of media desensitisation that teaches kids it's OK to diss people because they are a woman, they're a different color or they're from a different place."

Re:Well atleast its not computer games this time

[UberGeeb]

Religion doesn't cause erratic or neurotic behavior. In the first case, that person had something wrong with him in the first place. He let his emotions of sympathy get the best of his rationality.

Of course. But, the point is, D&D doesn't cause erratic or neurotic behavior either. And, the same non-causal arguments that are used to implicate D&D, video games, whatever can also be used to implicate religion.

It's a goddamn form of expression

[bersl2]

Had this person not been exposed to D&D, he would have expressed his wish to kill in some other way.

I can't quite refine this one, but: If one has natural musical talent but no formal training and no wide exposure to many different forms of expression, one will make music according to pre-existing patterns and experimentation.

Is this example not similar?

Re:It's a goddamn form of expression

[FidelCatsro]

Karma be dammed

Roll 3 d 6 : 14 or higher to go on a killing spree :: You rolled 6 add to that your previous pyschotic dispostion modifier of +20 for a score of 26 , pass lunacy check . You go nuts and go stab a bunch of people.

Obviously this lawyer never played D&D

Where, PA?

[Kris_J]

"King of Prussia, PA" -- is that a real town? And here I was thinking that "Medieval England, Iowa" was just a lame joke. Now I'm thinking of getting an atlas...

Re:Where, PA?

[NanoGator]

"Maybe that's the true reason for his killing spree: his town has a stupid name." ... said Zork the Almighty.

;)

Re:Where, PA?

[El_Muerte_TDS]

Yeah, didn't you know? It's near "Prince of Persia, PA"

Re:Where, PA?

[ZosX]

Yes it is in Pennsylvania, amonst many other towns, including the infamous Intercourse, PA, Blue Ball, PA, Beaverdale, PA, Manda Gap, PA, Scalp Level, PA, Stalker, PA and Burning Well, PA. I'm sure there are more funny names around the state. Still not as bad as Gaysport, OH and Businessburg, OH. Let us not forget Why, AZ, Cadillac, FL, Energy, IL, Normal, IL, Sac City, IA, Zook, KS, Cadillac, KY, Ordinary, KY, Hazard, KY, Christmas, MI, Gay, MI, Hell, MI, Nirvanna, MI, Paradise, MI, Askew, MS, Hot Coffee, MS, Competition, MO, Novelty, MO, Flying H, NM, Truth Or Consequences, NM, Weed, NM, Kill Devil Hills, NC, Can do, ND, Happyland, OK, Boring, OR, Half.com, OR, North, SC, Gayville, SD, Mud Butte, SD, Bushland, TX, Earth, TX, Gun Barrel City, TX, Needmore, TX, Tiki Island, TX, Study Butte, TX, Telegraph, TX, Best, TX, Boston, TX, Old Boston, TX, New Boston, TX, Index, WA, Ruff Starbuck, WA, Walla Walla, WA, Acme, WV, Friendly, WV, Odd, WV, or Sod, WV.

If you are too lazy to google for information and such.

Reno 911

[riceslimbo]

Someone's gonna post these, might as well get it out of the way:

boots of escaping

axe scuffle

I hope its true...

[zappepcs]

If they prove his bad morals are because of D&D, then maybe they can link bad teeth or eyesight to some other source and my insurance will have to pay for corrective actions, after suing the appropriate game maker?

Not Surprising

[TiredGamer]

It was only a matter of time before D&D became a target again for those looking for reasons for homicidal mania... other than the person being a homicidal maniac. Perhaps the same lawyer going after Rockstar will start a new suit against Wizards of the Coast for the families of the deceased individuals. Somewhere in the shadows I can hear Jack Chick cackling...

Yet another D&D tragedy (old)

[Dark Coder]

Remember Dallas Egbert?

http://ptgptb.org/0006/egbert.html

D20 roll.... SUCCESS

[mcmanzi]

You Bastard!

I'll kill you!

... wait... I must consult my dice for my next move.

King of Prussa?

[mcmanzi]

I thought Prussa dissolved? Aren't we calling it Poland these days?

and who are you then?

I am your King

well I didn't vote for you...

seems that...

[dunkelfalke]

seems that [SA]HatfulOfHollow has what he wanted at last.

Could Passion of the Christ cause stabbings?

[MilenCent]

I mean, the violence in D&D is typically glossed over (some might say to its detrement -- barbarian heroes don't seem to live up to their Conanic legacy without rivers of gore to wade through). You roll. You hit. You kill the monster or it kills you. The survivors gets on with their lives. Not a lot of description going on, when it comes to combat.

Now The Passion of the Christ... there you have some violence! And no matter how you couch it, as being history, religion, passion play, statement of faith, what have you, it cannot be denied that it presents its violent images much more vividly than any DM ever did. If you buy into the watching-violence-causes-violence thing, then it seems obvious that it undoubtedly causes more RL violent behavior than D&D does. (And kids do watch it -- sometimes at parental behest!)

When is a lawyer going to come out and say that stabbings may be caused by Mel Gibson movies, is what I'd like to know.

Re:Could Passion of the Christ cause stabbings?

[QMO]

Quote: "If you buy into the watching-violence-causes-violence thing"

What amazes me is that many people believe that what we watch DOESN'T affect us.

If only there were real, irrefutable, evidence of that then television, radio, newspapers, and internet would cease to exist as we know them.

The fact is that there is plenty of very good evidence that what we see/hear/read affects us. That's why you can make HUGE amounts of money by advertising. It would be irrational (IMO) to believe that what we see affects us only in how we spend, and not in our other behaviors.

Note that this doesn't place the blame for bad behavior (or the praise for good behavior) on the people that create stuff for us to see/hear/read. (ie. It's not my fault if you kick the dog after reading this.)

Re:Could Passion of the Christ cause stabbings?

[[cx]]

Ironically back then, Jesus was viewed by many of the Roman populace as being an evil man and a bad influence for the people. He was killed, many rejoiced, and many still do.

I for one could care less, if God was my dad and he let me die, that would be the end of our long talks.

And as for violence being glorified, try the news, one minute, "Your Army Needs You!", next minute, boom! There goes some new recruits!

Video games if any put a comedic spin on violence, making it family fun. Jesus would get more of a kick out of video games than he would out of that Mel Gibson movie.

How can you say Jesus wouldn't enjoy the 5 star cops rating in GTA?

I think you don't know Jesus!

[cx]

Re:Other causes of death

[NanoGator]

"What about: Fists and feet Piano Wire Strangulation/Suffocation Drowning Starvation Food poisoning"

Well, if they looked at your hard-drive, they'd probably assume porn.

It was only a matter of time.

[King_of_Prussia]

I have been trying to institute a ban on D&D in my hometown for many years now, but the nerds just wouldn't listen. I guess one of them finally snapped and went on a murderous rage fuelled by satan and cheetos.

Re:It was only a matter of time.

[chrish]

Mmm... delicious Satan.

Uh, I mean, Cheetos. Yeah, that's it... Cheetos...

This guy has an interesting history...

[Hobart]

Some googling on Mr. Bruce Castor in Philly brings up:

Some of his emails involving campaign for Attorney General

This is a revolution. Revolutions are by definition unconventional. It is this, not consideration of ego, pride or stubborness which gives me pause. Normal methods have not worked. Asher is a Madman, ! and that lunatic is in charge of the asylum. How can normal logic ever apply?

Allegations he may let off drunk drivers if you happen to be a rich political donor

Re:Other causes of death

[dasunt]

So if I shoot you it's because I played Doom, and if I stab you it's because I play D&D. What about: Fists and feet Piano Wire Strangulation/Suffocation Drowning Starvation Food poisoning

Nethack.

Behind the scenes at someone's office...

[tuxedobob]

Mike: Hey, Joe?
Joe: Yeah Mike?
Mike: Someone just got stabbed.
Joe: Hmmm.... we should probably blame it on video games.
Mike: Nah, I don't think so. Everyone else is doing that. And some people say there's no proof?
Joe: Well, how about D&D? That's kinda like video games, and it's based on the occult, and Satan is bad.
Mike: Yeah, that might work. Let's go with that.

Logic Saves

[skinfitz]

Once again, Logic Saves:

If
"Violent crime is inspired by media violence" is true;

Games are a form of media

Books are a form of media

...therefore...

The Bible is an inspiration for violence as it contains violence.

Lets see them get out of that. Oh wait - let me guess - there is some law being passed to exempt the Bible for being blamed for anything.

Oh, come on!

[91degrees]

How many people stab in D&D? Any decent combat munchkin will use a sword or battleaxe. And nobody stabs with those. They'll try to get a decent swing.

Comeback.

[Gen. Rasputin X]

I guess it's true that D&D is making a comeback, after all, it's been years since anyone blamed the game for anything.

Unless of course he's blaming it on the D&D xbox game...

Or of course the D&D movie. I can see that causing someone to kill.

He didn't mean to kill those men,

[MykeBNY]

he was attacking the darkness.

Obg. Futurama

[Xaroth]

"Hi! I'm Gary Gygax, and I'm..."

rolls dice

"glad to meet you!" ...who knows? Maybe the guy just crit-failed on his encounter disposition roll.

Bagel store implicated

[hoggoth]

The DA has just found out that the suspect had recently gotten bagels at a so-called 'Bagel Store' where he witnessed slashing and sawing motions with a sharp knife perpetrated on a bagel as symbolic proxy for a murder victim.

"Bagels may be involved," quoted the DA as he himself chewed on a bagel, unaware of the sinister implications of his actions.

Re:Need more data.

[ostermei]

Note that DA Castor says that there might be a connection, or there might not. He's not demonizing D&D, nor are either news agency making it their headline.

Actually, D&D is being demonized by this because of the way it's being handled. You're correct in that the media isn't coming right out and saying "D&D made him do it, it's bad and needs to be destroyed," but Mr. Castor even mentioning it when there's possibly no link whatsoever is just irresponsible. If it turns out that D&D did have something to do with it, fine... they should tell us about it when they have proof. Until then, dropping a product's name as being "possibly" involved with a murder is, in fact, demonizing it in the public eye. If you notice, the only time D&D gets media attention is when it's being mentioned in situations just such as this. When was the last time you saw/read D&D getting any sort of positive mainstream media attention?

Dupe.

[SoCalEd]

Wasn't this same article posted in 1982, 1983, 1986, etc.? (Oh, wait....)

Seriously though, I clearly recall my mother freaking out over my playing because of crap news like this back in the very early 80's when I was in 7th or 8th grade. Its amazing how this "D&D is the root of all evil" horseshit keeps coming back.

Next we'll be back on the Proctor and Gamble has satanic symbols on their product witch hunt...

Stands to reason...

[Monty_Lovering]

After all, most people who burnt witches had access to a copy of the Bible.

I ddin't see anything about the victims being orc though

No, it was caused by D&D

[rsilvergun]

from what I've heard, the whole thing started with a heated exchange over 3rd Edition vs. 2nd. It got pretty bloody after that.