Slashdot Mirror
Sony Patents Matrix-Like Game Technology
howman writes "Reuters is reporting that Sony has been granted 2 patents, both describing 'Method and system for generating sensory data onto the human neural cortex'. These are patents 6,729,337 and 6,536,440. The patents go on to 'describe a technique for aiming ultrasonic pulses at specific areas of the brain to induce sensory experiences such as smells, sounds and images'. The story was first broken by New Scientist magazine." Commentary also available via Ars Technica.
I'd keep an eye on Sony if I were you...
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
So, any bets as to which pornographer Sony will be suing first? ;-)
Do you like German cars?
At least with sound they don't have to stick a heavily wired icepick into my brain.
:}
See technology is already passing Sci-Fi up.
Telcos have alot of dark fibre in the States. Most people assume that's optical fibre...but it's actually moral fibre.
... finally.
.de).
Now let us just hope that we ourselves do not conflict with any (coming) patent so that we can take full advantage.
More seriously (?):
Sony hasn't yet built a device that works based on the ideas presented in the patent, so this is all theoretical. In fact, according to the New Scientist, Sony hasn't even conducted any experiments to see if this works. Nonetheless, most of the reporting on this patent (see the Times Online and the original New Scientist peice) claim that some independent experts have said that the idea is plausible. There's no word yet on whether or not tinfoil will stop the ultrasonic brain rays.
Strange. I bet there are some among the crowd here who have "theoretical ideas" that level up with SONY. IIRC, in ancient times it was necessary to present a working model (at least here in
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
...that Sony can patent something not only which they have not implemented, but which they do not even yet know how to implement?
English is easier said than done.
You mean the first third is good, whilst the rest is shit?
Interesting patent idea.
Can someone enlighten me please.
How detailed, exact and 'can be done with the current technology'a patent claim has to be in order to get granted? I mean they can't implement these patents now, can they?
Can I just take say the teleporter and describe it as a commuting device that works by transforming matter into energy, beaming it and retransforming it back to get a patent for it?
I love how they've patented a method that is as of yet unimplementable. Regardless of who actually goes to the trouble of researching and spending the time prototyping an idea, patent holders usually get to skim off the cream, because, well.. we thought of it first.
Would some slashdotters please hurry up and patent AI, warp drive and/or superhuman genetic mutation please. Wait! better yet, patent methods for processing the new social security system on a computer! Then deny anyone the right to use it. That ought to make all the old trips on Capitol Hill wake up and notice!!
May the Maths Be with you!
'Elizabeth Boukis, spokeswoman for Sony Electronics, says the work is speculative. "There were not any experiments done," she says. "This particular patent was a prophetic invention. It was based on an inspiration that this may someday be the direction that technology will take us." '
Hey - so it basically means that they do NOT have made an invention, but have a patent to get all the profit, when some real inventor makes it real 10 years later ?
This is ridiculous. Patents should be granted for novel implementations, not for ideas that someone might implement in future. The scientists that find a working solution should get the patent, not some lawyer who is just speculating on where technology might go.
The skull is well known for being a barrier almost impenetrable for ultrasound, it is only possible to use US imaging for certain areas accessible through foramen magnum (the big hole at the bottom) or more recently also through the thin bone at the sides.
I wonder how they manage to get it in and focus it.
Sounds very exciting though, I'll be glad to see it put to some sensible use. Focused neurostimulation to treat tremor associated with Parkinson's could be one (done by implanting electrodes today). Or treatment od epilepsy could be also one application.
Remember all the old "smell-o-vision" jokes? Insert your favorite one here.
The thing that scares me is how any new technology is used *badly* for the first three to five years. Force feedback was around for a good long time before anyone did anything sensible with it, and even stereo sound was heinously abused in the early days. I can just imagine the hideous misfeatures that will pop up with this.
And for the conspiracy theorists among us, Drs. Chaffee and Light in the UK supposedly had some limited success controlling the human brain with radio waves in the 30s. If either of those are cited in the patent application, we might want to steer clear of any game using this technology...
Microsoft cheerleader, blue flag waving, you got a problem with that?
Seeing goatse and tubgirl are bad enough. But, Smells??!
You'll need to be brainwashed just to feel clean after that.
The funny thing is that, if real, this is most likely a worthless patent. The patent will likely expire long before something like this is even possible.
Sort of like patenting an idea for making money by mining hydrogen gas from stars in a distant galaxy.
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
...the idea was that if you came up with a brilliant idea, but lacked the funds to invest in R&D, materials, production equipment, distribution model etc. etc., you could patent it and then get investors. Otherwise your "investors" could just run off with your idea and cash in.
That works quite well for items that are "non-intuitive". Where it does not work well are for items that are "intuitive" (yet probably not obvious), the technology is "coming", but there's no implementation yet.
For example, say I went out and patented creating CPUs with nanotechnology. Obviously, if it could be done it would be a hit. You expect the product to appear, so you patent it and wait for someone else to actually do it.
The real question is what part is there that is innovative, the idea or the implementation? Or maybe it is both? Patents have been made to protect ideas. But there's a whole chunk of "innovation" that it doesn't cover, or is directly in opposition to.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
This idea is not new. Patenting it means they've probably hired an army of lawyers that will try to change the IP laws, extending the patent duration.
Now let me take my paranoid hat off.
I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...
No, it was to give them a temporary monopoly since they (theoretically) spent all that time/money developing it - since it should not have been something that is plainly obvious from existing knowledge/technologies.
In fact, originally (in the US, from 1790) a model was required to demonstrate how it functioned, but that requirement was removed in 1870.
I would argue that maybe you don't have to actually build one, but you need to throw down a lot of proof that you know it could work, and if things don't work out that way then you haven't yet patented whatever you've just created, and you need to patent the proper method.
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
Sony hasn't yet built a device that works based on the ideas presented in the patent, so this is all theoretical. In fact, according to the New Scientist, Sony hasn't even conducted any experiments to see if this works.
So, they've got a patent on something that they not only haven't built, but that they have no particular evidence could even work at all?
I'm starting to wonder what you'd have to throw together to get rejected by the patent office at this point. "Um, yeah, I think that, like, maybe you could make someone remember something by, you know, setting up a magnetic field around a specific part of their brain. Sounds like it could work, right? Can I have a patent?"
Obviously I'm wrong but however...
if someone patents an idea he cannot realize but is based on some form of fiction (i.e. Matrix), couldn't that fiction be considered "prior art" and make that patent invalid?
If it works at all, there could be hazards, especially as this is not envisioned as something done for a few minutes as with a diagnostic ultrasound, but for hours on end, day after day. It might be worth the risk to address a medical problem with vision or hearing, but entertainment is another matter.
There are known mechanisms by which excessive neural activity can potentially result in damage.
I'm not going to line up to be the first to try this new technology. The prudent thing to do would be to wait ten or twenty years and see if the early adopters start turning up with dementia or stroke.
By the way, researchers are already achieving interesting effects with transcranial magnetic stimulation, which is much further along, experimentally speaking. Indeed, some scientific equipment companies are selling ready-made devices for this purpose. At least it really does do something, although I haven't seen any practical (as opposed to research) applications.
Could somebody patent the act of patenting and put an end to this? Or patent the act of suing people for all possible future patents? I am sure that if things like the one in the story can be patented you should be able to work out a paradox and halt the system.
That's not quite right. The original purpose of patents was for greedy monarchs to enrich themselves by granting monopolies in return for bribes. This was eventually getting out of hand and had a negative impact on economies in Europe. In 1610 King James I of Britain abandoned the system of favourist patents and introduced a new law by which patents were only to be granted for inventions deemed to be in the public interest, only to the first inventor and strictly limited to 14 years. This was the birth of the modern patent system.
The duration was eventually extended to 20 years as it remains today, but there was never any requirement to provide a prototype nor was the idea to aid fund raising for a prototype.
Instead, the patent system is based on the concept of a bargain between the public interest and an inventor. The bargain is for the inventor to receive a time limited monopoly in return for not keeping his invention secret and have it published. In fact, when the patent expires after 20 years, the invention become public domain.
It does not matter whether the invention actually works or not. The public interest is served by the disclosure of the invention. Any such disclosure will enrich the public domain, which is the only reason why a patent is granted in the first place.
If the invention is flawed and doesn't work, in most cases, there is still something to be learned from its disclosure for others to fix the flaw or not make the same mistake and instead come up with a better idea. This is what enrichment of the public domain is all about.
Consequently, it doesn't matter if an invention works or not. If there was any such requirement as to produce a working prototype, it would actually limit the enrichment of the public domain.
What is far more important is that the rules of patentability, ie novelty and non-obviousness are strictly enforced. Too many patent applications for inventions which are not novel or which are obvious get rubberstamped these days. That is where the problem of the patent system lies today.
the macintosh asterisk mailing list http://www.astm
It appears Sony is trying to patent sensory input from the nerve while having done zero research into the field.
Yet there is a large amount of existing research into the field. Right now most of the practical application is in the area of receaving signals from the brain but the cochlear implants that restore hearing an the cybernetic eye that restores vision are practical examples of sending sensory data back to the brain.
I'm not sure how far we are on the other sensory inputs but I guess that dosen't matter anymore becouse all research will have to be scraped leaving Sony to start pritty much from scrap to redo the decades of research already done.
All becouse Sony got the patent.
Good luck Sony.. None of the researchers working on this field for over 20 years now will ever speak with you let alone share notes.
To Sony it's just theoretical ideas to many reseachers in the medical industry it's science and to some degree a pratical reality.
This is a grand example of abusing the patent office and an ideal example of a patent that should have never been issued.
I don't actually exist.
"Because the gas is always greener on the other side of the universe."
Yep, they are called Senators here in the U.S.
The requirements for patentability are simple ...
1) the invention has to be novel
2) the invention must not be ovious, there has to be an inventive step
3) the specification has to be detailed enough for persons skilled in the art to carry out the invention, that is to say, build the apparatus
These requirements are perfectly sufficient if they are properly enforced.
requirement 1 means, no patent is to be granted if there is prior art
requirement 2 means, no patent is to be granted for something that is obvious
requirement 3 means, no patent is to be granted for concepts or ideas, nor for applications that are too fuzzy to be pinned down to an actual implementation
The problem with the patent system today is that the patent offices are hopelessly understaffed to ensure that these requirements are actually enforced and consequently there are too many patents which are not novel, obvious or fuzzy or any combination thereof.
If a requirement to produce a working prototype was introduced, it would make things even worse because the already overworked patent examiners would now also have to examine the prototype and there would likely follow a tendency to grant any application as long as the prototype appears to do what the specification says it does. The result would be even more non-novel and obvious patents.
the macintosh asterisk mailing list http://www.astm
Why go to a distant galaxy when we have 200 billion stars in our own ?
Because the best stories happen in a galaxy far, far away.
This is the Internet. You can say "fuck" here. - AC
1 file the last document,
2 get the patent, and
3 profit!
This workked so well because until that last document was filed, the patent number wasn't issued, making submarine patents all but impossible to look up.
Now the patent lifespan is 3 years longer, but the clock and the visibility of the patent starts as soon as the first document is filed.
I am a Neuroscientist.
There is no way in God's Green Earth that you can transnsmit a meaningful signal to the brain wirelessly through the skull. They even say it themselves in the article that you can't even target *groups* of neurons.
It's about the laws of physics. The fields just spread too much to allow you to target neurons.
Maybe with vast (!!!!) improvements in technology, we could selectively activate a region of the brain, making someone feel a particular way (happy, sad, horny, religious), but it would be sloppy, dangerous and need to be tuned to a particular individual.
Under NO conceivable circumstances within the universe that we currently live could you uninvasively transmit any detailed information, through the skull as the article (and presumably the patent) implies.
1) the invention has to be novel ...
2) the invention must not be ovious, there has to be an inventive step
3) the specification has to be detailed enough for persons skilled in the art to carry out the invention, that is to say, build the apparatus
The problem with the patent system today is that the patent offices are hopelessly understaffed...
I don't think that failing to notice that 1/3 of the required elements is entirely missing can be brushed off as understaffing. Not finding some obscure prior art -- okay, it happens, though I don't think they're really trying all that hard. Questions of the invention being inobvious are often open to argument, especially after you've already seen the invention and had a chance to say "oh, yeah, I coulda done that." But failing to notice that there's not anything that even pretends to be an actual physical apparatus or any idea how to design one? Sorry -- that's incompetence.
Ever think that someone in a galaxy far, far away is telling stories about us?
"Gather round kids, I'm going to tell you a story. A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, there was an evil monopoly called Microsoft..."
Laziness, check. Impatience, check. Hubris, double check!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but any invention can only be patented once.
We should set up a charity to patent these sorts of "prophetic" inventions, so that when the day comes that they can actually be implemented the patents will have expired and the technology will be free of any restrictive licensing.
I suggest these as starters:
Cold Fusion
Teleporters
Personal laser weapons
Warp drives
Jump gates
Nanobot based immune systems