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RAM Manufacturers Fined for Price Fixing
TufelKinder writes "From Law.com: 'In the largest fine ever obtained by San Francisco antitrust prosecutors, a Korean company has agreed to plead guilty and pay $185 million for its role in a conspiracy to drive up the price of computer chips.' Micron and Infineon have also been fined for their role in the scheme." From the article: "It's the third-largest fine of its kind in the United States, and it could be just a preview of even bigger penalties. The far-reaching computer chip investigation, which alleges wrongdoing from 1999 through 2002, affects thousands of consumers."
Honest
So the money goes to who, instead of the customers?
Ram is pretty cheap as it is, it's gonna be awesome if somehow prices drop even more because of this.
Le français vous intéresse?
Will they pass the cost onto the consumer?
This has got to be a wake-up call to major corporations. This goes to show that price-fixing will not be tolerated in the tech industry. Now perhaps we could get this to extend to other industries such as DVD's/CD's, and maybe even OIL!
Okay, okay, I admit it, I'm drunk.
What does this mean for RAM prices in the near and far future?
Will OEMs keep prices where they are now and pocket the difference? Or will they lower prices?
Yay so I can use the money I will save on RAM and put it towards high gas prices.
crap
I can break even on all that old EDO memory I've got!
Meet new people, and kill them.
It was like RAM was a commodity. I was buying RAM on huge price drops on Pricewatch and selling a few sticks a couple months later when the price ran back up on Ebay. It was great. I wasn't aware that it was just a Korean issue though, I thought some Hong Kong and Taiwan companies were involved.
Following links have more info:
http://tinyurl.com/8umy3
http://tinyurl.com/b4k7m
*looks at $2.00 per meg PC-133 chips* ... ... ...
*waits for class action lawsuit notification*
yah, but GW didn't make money from RAM or ties to RAM producing families.
OIL SON!... kill kill kill.
.cig
Gas is not a global commodity. Only a small percentage of countries around the world hold oil beneath their surface. They (OPEC) can control the rise and fall of gas prices.
I did hear a small blurb in the media about price fixing this last week, but that was it. But well...that was it. I would THINK the media would be jumping on this with more force then with happend with Enron. So that leaves me thinking one of two things.
1. It was all made up and thus gained no support.
2. The government stepped in and "unofficially" told the media to keep shut on this subject. If word got out on price fixing, we could end up with a panic and people rushing to the gas pumps like in the 70s. Such an event would really be a problem out of interests of national security and destabilization of our ecconomy.
I'm not saying those in the oil industry shouldn't be punished. But would it really be wise to get all in a frenzy over it at this point in time?
Life is not for the lazy.
This is good. While Japanese anti-trust "watchdogs" taking a look at an American company is bad.
How much did they make during that time?
I'm often dissappointed in fines like this when I find out that the execs did a little jail time, paid a fine, but still have 6 Lamborghinis in the garage. It's important to implement fines that are severely punishing...like the people involved would have been WAY better off not pulling this kind of crap. The should be destitute. I can't stomach the wealth accumulated on the backs of the bruised.
I'm not saying that's what is going on here, I don't know. It just makes me sick when most people involved still come out ahead, and there is maybe one or two sacrificial lambs.
I'm sorry, but your opinion seems to be wrong.
What evidence do you have that the gas companies are price fixing? That gas is expensive? It's a finite resource in high demand. Welcome to the way economics works. The infrastructure to drill for, transport, and refine oil into gasoline costs billions of dollars, and yet how much do you pay per gallon for bottled sugar water? Not to mention that here in the US ~$.30/gallon is tax...
If you bothered to RTFA, you would know.
$185 bucks says that $185 million will go towards funding DMCA litigation in San Francisco.
The cost of gas is shooting up to sky-high levels for many reasons:
a) OPEC has too much pricing power over crude oil
b) available supply is falling (it's finite)
c) demand is climbing (China, anyone?)
d) it's REALLY hard to get permission to build refineries in the U.S.
If seems to me that claiming "price fixing!" in this case is perfect example of the H.L. Mencken quote:
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
Life is short: void the warranty.
After joining/initiating price fixing with its competitors and making good profits, you rat out on your competitors without paying the fines.
Actually, the price of RAM will probably go up after this so said companies can afford to pay off their fines without reaching into their own pockets.
When a telephone company gets fined, where does the money come from? Increased prices/fees.
When an energy company gets fined, where does the money come from? Increased prices/fees.
When a car maker gets fined, where does the money come from? Increased prices/fees.
Why do you think this will be any different? They're just going to do it again, and not get caught.
Job? I don't have time to get a job! Who will sit around and bitch about being broke and unemployed then?
185 million for 'thousands of consumers.' Isn't that a bit steep? I assume that meant millions of consumers. Anyway, I thought that memory makers hardly made any money. Perhaps price-fixing was the only way to keep the market survivable?
Um, the government can do more than one thing at a time. So, you think the Japanese company should've gotten away with the price fixing, then?
One man's Funny is another man's Offtopic.
Ha! cool quote. thanks.
The problem with such a plan is nations that are part of OPEC are full members, not some company mind you, but the government itself. Regulation of the oil industry would be far harder as it would directly involve the host nations who tend to like to do what they want on their own soil where they directly make the laws.
Help Brendan pay off his student loans
d) it's REALLY hard to get permission to build refineries in the U.S.
It's not just that. People stopped building refineries in the US because there was no profit to be gained from the industry. It always ends up having the profits less than the total cost it takes to refine the oil. No profit, no business.
Debugging? Klingons do not debug. Bugs are good for building character in the user.
I heard that when you take inflation into account, gas is actually the cheapest it's been since the 80s. It still doesn't make feel good about paying $40 to fill up my car.
*scared of a negative offtopic mod* Simply due to the fact that prices can be $0.60 a litre (CAD) over the border in USA, when they are $1.05 (CAD) right here in Canada. Surely that much of our oil can be coming from different sources than USA.
I'm waiting for fines for low-priced RAM.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Allow me to add another Mencken quote:
The American public knows what it wants, and deserves to get it. Good and hard.
"Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
" What evidence do you have that the gas companies are price fixing?"
WTF do you think OPEC does, pick daisies?
(OK OK mod me down)
This was the government. It's a fine. Fines go to the government.
There have been additional claass action suits filed, which will make the ambulance chasers, err, plaintiff's lawyers, wealthy while producing almost nothing for the customers.
hawk
I am sure there is gonna be an individual hired to do precisely this. These companies NEVER lose...after all where else will we get RAM from?
It absolutely does, minus the 184 million dollar legal fee the lawyers get for enabling justice on your behalf, of course.
~Someday, I hope to be an aspiring author.
check again- how much of what you pay in Canada is tax?
d) it's REALLY hard to get permission to build refineries in the U.S.
It's not just that. People stopped building refineries in the US because there was no profit to be gained from the industry. It always ends up having the revenue less than the total cost it takes to refine the oil. No profit, no business.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H.L. Mencken
Look at gas prices near the Illinois/Indiana border. With the taxes that Cook county has there should be no way that the prices in Indiana cities close to the border should be anywhere near the prices of those on the Illinois side.
Yet for some reason they are on most occasions the same price or even slightly higher.
this stuff happens all the time. its just usually there isnt enough hard evidence to do anything about it. as scary as it sounds, though, in big business nothing is a mistake. i bet you 186 million that that money is going to end up back in the hands of the people that started this price fix to begin with. anyway, maybe im over paranoid when it comes to money. perhaps it has something to do with the fact that the federal reserve isnt owned by the usa, and every president that attempted to change that died under odd circumstances or was assassinated. anyway, nothing to see here, go back to earning your ink'd papers. god help us all.
they don't fix the prices, they control production. the market determines the prices. they could suck it all out of the ground as fast as they could build more wells and flood the market w/cheap oil, but they'd be screwing themselves and the rest of the world over. there's a reason that production is where it is, because that's the optimal balance of production and demand.
...will receive a 32MB stick of PC 66 memory.
I wonder how much they profited. The fine for the top music industry companies was about $143 million but due to price fixing consumers were overcharged $480 million. That's a profit of about $337 million.
>What evidence do you have that the gas companies are price fixing? That gas is expensive? It's a finite resource in high demand. Welcome to the way economics works. The infrastructure to drill for, transport, and refine oil into gasoline costs billions of dollars, and yet how much do you pay per gallon for bottled sugar water? Not to mention that here in the US ~$.30/gallon is tax... Um, the fact that the price goes up and so does EVERYBODY'S profits? The fact that NO ONE is taking advantage of the situation to lower their prices by a penny and increase market share? Just a thought.
Hie thee unto an aulde Englishe lexicon anonce, verily and alle thate...
What? Infineon *last year*?
All that's news today is Hynix has been fined. The headline's only good if there had been more named.
Was the joke flying right over your head. *WOOSH!*
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
Isn't it amazing how gas proces can jump up 10 cents or even 20 cents in one day yet take months to fall back down?
-- Argel
about your sig: would this work?
And is there a way to send a private message instead of posting off-topic in the future?
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H.L. Mencken
..RAM was so expensive, and the prices only got higher over time. For really good, reliable RAM from a trusted manufacturer you really have to pay out the nose.
It takes just a moment and an action to destroy. It takes some time and thought to create.
"This case shows that high-tech price-fixing cartels will not be tolerated" But oil cartels? Bring it on...I'm paying $2.30/gallon out here in the midwest...
Something Witty Goes Here
Existing refineries would be adequate were it not for the 1001 recipes that various state and local govts. have required, by law. To bad that getting together and agreeing on a few recipes is not politically profitable.
How about we do a open refinery project just across the border in Mexico. What with NAFTA and all we shoulf make out like non-profit banditos.
All of the above may be true (although I think the last one may only be an issue in places like Califorina), but YOU CAN STILL HAVE PRICE FIXING. Never underestimate the power of people to cheat when there is profit to be made.
The cost of gas is shooting up to sky-high levels for many reasons:
Don't forget - the devaluation of the American dollar.
Even though oil is officially priced in US dollars, that does not make its pricing tied to the value of the dollar. Since oil has intrinsic value, if the value of the US dollar goes down, the price of oil must go up so as to roughly maintain value parity.
First, a lot of oil comes from OPEC, which is (openly) a cartel. They have well-publicized meetings every few months to fix oil prices.
Then there are the brokers and refiners. We have audio tapes of Enron execs laughing as they caused California's energy crisis of a few years ago by needlessly shutting down suppliers, in order to drive prices through the roof.
Then there's geopolitics. i.e. invading Iraq and then declaring Frace won't be getting any of the oil because they're uncooperative, then getting mad when we discover they weren't obeying our Oil For Food program.
I'm not saying basic economics is irrelevant, but let's not pretend Econ 101 is the real world either.
Where did the author get thousands of users? Maybe thousands of thousands? From 99 to 2002 my guess is these companies sold in the neighborhood of a few hundred million DIMMS or DRAMS.
--- Old Time NeXThead
It's not just about permission either. Sometimes it is about the economics of the situation. Startup costs for a refinery is measured in the hundreds of millions of dollars. And by the time the plant is built, the oil situation might have changed so that now there is a glut and not a shortage.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
so we can each get a $2 off coupon for RAM from the offending companies.
They are currently charging as much as they feel they can without losing market share.
Your logic implies every one of your examples should have been selling their products at a higher rate, because all you need to do is raise prices to make more money.
On the other hand, if all memory manufactures agree that they need to raise prices to make up for the fines....
Not to sound like flamebait or anything, but... Wouldn't it be interesting if they let it be a little laissez-faire? Even if they KNEW exactly what was going on, if it were absolutely evident that two RAM companies were in a price-fixing collusion. A third and fourth company might come along and sell much closer to cost, tearing Infineon et al to shreds and causing them to learn their lesson.
Or will it just be foreign corporations, because I don't think there is going to be a problem with American corporations price fixing because they are simply helping the American economy... that's okay. But it's not okay for other countries to make lots of money in unethical ways.
Ram...korean company...it has been a long week but I could have sworn that Dodge is an American company. Just kidding. However...why do we never learn where these huge fines go? I mean, $160 million is a fair amount of money and I'm certain someone will enjoy collecting it. sadly, i will still be working away without receiving a cent.
Prices are too high. Must be fixed. I love that stuff.
de Beers has been doing that for years without getting sued.
Well, you have a decent point there. Ours in Canada is about $0.30 / litre. Calculating off of what the original poster said of $0.30 / gallon in taxes ($0.40 CAD approx). That would be about $0.10 / litre. That would make the raw cost in USA about $0.50 (CAD) / litre, and ours is $0.70 / litre.
To me, that $0.20 difference is too much to ignore.
The Enron thing in California had nothing to do with oil.
I'm not saying it's Econ 101 simple, and it's certainly more complex than most markets, but we can't really do anything about OPEC controlling the amount of supply, so then it really comes down to the companies that do the stuff WITH the oil (i.e., make gas) and that is as basically as supply-and-demand as any other market. In a way, though, OPEC's really controlling the supply as best as they can- they could flood the market with cheap oil, but it would seriously screw things up. Likewise, they could drive the price even higher and it would seriously screw things up, too. It sucks, but it's really about as good as it can get...
So now they have a REAL reason to charge more for the memory. Sounds like a solution to benifit the consumers for sure! How much of the $185 million went to lawyers and lawfirms and how much of that is going back to the consumers? $0.18 checks aren't worth crap to the consumer that bought the memory at the 'fixed rate'. Cause in the end, the consumers get nothing back from a suit like this except paying more for the memory in the future because of the impact of the lawsuit. The lawyers make out like a bandit! Why else do imagine these lawsuits exist?
We are not running out of oil. It's demand and supply. The current oil price probably has more to do with the Iraq war and SE Asia growth than price fixing. Oh, I forgot to blame MS :)
No, they control the rise and fall of crude oil prices, which are hella-cheap, relatively speaking.
It's the companies that run the refineries that take advantage of "supply-and-demand" concepts to drive up prices at the pump.
i.e. "we had to produce xxx gallons of heating oil, and so we couldn't produce enough gasoline"
But what they don't tell you is that they intentionally shut down the refineries to drive demand and raise the market price.
I voted for GWB, and don't regret my decision, but I'm no fool about where the bucks are being spent.
a) OPEC actually is having less and less control over the pricing of crude with other sources coming on line.
b) This is true (and most likely the principle cause). While there are signifigant discoveries still being made, the are in areas that are VERY difficult to produce in. And by difficult, I mean expensive. The financial analysis just does not make sence until the price of oil goes up.
c) Until the needs of China / India / East Timor / Boogymanoftheday out strips that of the US, we will have a hard time pointing our fingers at other's consupmtion. Odd that you do not hear any timeframes for when China's demand will outstrip ours. You hear even the shakiest estimates on Social Security or Medicare running out quoted as gospel, but nothing on when China's demand will be the 800 pound gorilla.
d) This denys the fact that more refineries have closed in the past 30 years than permits filed to build new ones. The number of refineries in California alone has decreased by an order of magnitude. Even world-wide, grass roots refinery projects are the exception rather than the rule. It is much easier from a technical, financial, and regulatory stand point to ramp up the production at an existing refinery that to build a brand new one.
(how the hell did we get so far off topic?)
Your math is off though. Canada is a socialist economy, you pay a much larger percentage of tax then the US does.
The things I can think of that are going up in price these days are:
- Food
- Petrol
- Automobiles
- Housing
- Other luxury items
With the exception of the first two (food and fuel), everything else is an extremely high-ticket item that you buy very rarely. The day-to-day cost of living expenses like cheap manufactured goods, clothing, etc. have been tending to decrease in price as we find more third-world countries to exploit^w^w^w^w^w^wcome up with newer, more automated means of production to reduce the cost.The cost of electronics is the most extreme example, showing a very severe downward trend, but this deflation applies to other things as well. All that sweat-shop clothing has driven textiles way down. Chinese knock-offs are starting to really cut the prices on random non-electronic equipment---I bought a precision torque wrench for $12 that would have cost $60 ten or fifteen years ago, and a Chinese-made ribbon mic for less than the cost of a replacement ribbon for a vintage ribbon mic....
I'm not saying everything is going down, but I would say the majority of things are, from what I've seen. The ones that aren't are either things that can't be reasonably manufactured overseas and imported (food, beverages, fuel) or are situations where the supply is being artificially stifled to drive up prices (fuel again, automobiles, housing).....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
I don't get that. How can "illegally invading" an oil producting nation can we have HIGHER oil costs. The anti-war folks shouted from their SUVs "No Blood For Oil" but now they complain that prices are too high because demand isn't being met.
According to Hoovers, Hynix's NET income for 2000-2002 was $7.5 Billion with a "B".
Better look at those numbers again. Hynix's net LOSS was $7.5 billion over that time period.
you would be in Radio shack, and that old guy would be talking about how he remember when you had to wait for everything to warm up because of tubes and you would roll your eyes?
Your being that old guy.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Which is exactly why there is a problem in the U.S. In Canada and Europe, prices are high to begin with because of taxes; in the U.S., the tax burden on gar is relatively low. But that means that if gas goes up by $0.50 a gallon in the U.S., it should also go up by that much in Europe and Canada as well, if the price of gas is really driven purely by supply-and-demand economics. But it doesn't -- the U.S. gas prices have gone up much faster than the prices in Canada and Europe. Profits are high in the U.S. -- without price fixing, one of the oil companies would almost be certain to trade a few cents per gallon of profit for market share -- but it doesn't happen, they are keeping the prices high in order to keep profits high, and they are almost certainly working together to do so.
The argument could be made that gas is too cheap in the U.S. compared to other countries -- but at least in those other countries, higher gas prices mean more money to fix roads and stuff, rather than simply more money to pay the shareholders of the oil companies...
"That's not even wrong..." -- Wolfgang Pauli
I do work with music synthesis and man, can that shit eat RAM. I have a sample DVD of a drumkit, just a normal trap set with 5 toms, a selection of cymbals and so on. It's 2.4GB, oh and it's the small one. Their full one, with all different styles of kits (like using brushes instead of sticks) is 35GB (comes on 4 DVDs). The same company makes an orchestral sample set with basically all instruments from an orchestra in 3 different mic positons. 68GB.
Now the sampler technology is advanced enough that it can load just the start of the samples in RAM and then stream off the disk as needed, but there's limits to that (only so fast the disk can go) and you still need part in RAM. Eating up the 2GB I have is cake, and I don't even have the really big sample sets.
Now pro apps like those aside, normal apps will grow to use the memory, if it's available. Games can almost always use more memory, if for no other reason than to eliminate any kind of load times (by loading more data further ahead). I'm sure most game makers would like to use more RAM than they do. However, you won't sell many games if you require something most people don't have. If RAM prices go down and amounts go up, they'll start using more.
Some games already do. World of Warcraft just isn't happy unless you have a GB of RAM. It'll run on less, but you'll find it lagging and stuttering as it scrambles to get the graphics off the disk. You give it a GB, it gets pretty happy and smooth.
The cost of gas is shooting up to sky-high levels for many reasons:
a sp rices/price.html
a) OPEC has too much pricing power over crude oil
b) available supply is falling (it's finite)
c) demand is climbing (China, anyone?)
d) it's REALLY hard to get permission to build refineries in the U.S.
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/global_g
Why is it so much cheaper in VENEZUELA?
Inflation refers to the increase of prices as a whole in the economy. It is a measure of the average increase, not of particular markets.
Inflation is not a misnomer for the trend to compensate for when rating gas prices today versus their price 20 years ago.
Your problem is that during this time they were losing their shirts! Look it up, Hynix, Infineon, Micron were all losing billions of $$$ during this time period. So maybe they got together and said, look guys, we are all gonna be bankrupt if we don't cut production to try and slow this bleeding... And then dell complains cause the memory cost more per box and sicks the government at them. Their profits were in jeopardy. Anyhow, my point is that there would have been no third or fourth company as you postulated selling closer to cost - cause that would have meant their prices were higher! Everyone seems to be lynching the memory companies for wanting to at least break even on things... Ridiculous. Infineon lost billions and got fined for not losing trillions. I think they learned their lesson.
That 185 million dollar fine Hynix got doesn't come close to the multi billion dollar bailouts the Korean banks gave them right after the banks were bailed out my the IMF w/ your tax dollars.
c) demand is climbing (China, anyone?) Let's not forget the absolute necessity of owning an SUV. Afterall, they're not about carrying people, they are made simply to burn gas. Everyday I see people driving around (BY THEMSELVES) in huge-ass trucks only getting 15 miles to the gallon. They could just as easily be in a smaller car getting 25-30 mpg, but then they think they have the right to bitch about gas prices. THEY ARE CAUSING IT.
Some of the reason you listed for gas prices are wrong.
(a) Crude oil costs only accounts for about 1/3 of the total price. If oil prices double, then you'll pay about 1/3 more at the pump. If they halve, you'll pay about 1/6 less at the pump. The price of crude is rising due to China and the rest of the world recovering from stagnation in the early 2000's. OPEC has been producing more to try and lower the price, but their supply cannot keep up.
(b) Federal and state taxes contribute about 1/3 of the cost as well. While these are fairly static, they are still gradually rising. Consider that many gas taxes are implemented over time (ie, a few cents more each year is taxed.)
(c) The remaining third go to the costs of distribution and profits for the companies involved. The reason this is so high is because of environmental regulations are very strict, requiring several different types of blends be used in different parts of the country at different times of the year. Combined with the bottleneck that you can't store gasoline and use it the next year, and it's really hard to build more refineries, we run into a bottle neck every summer where we just can't refine the oil fast enough.
As far as the oil supply being finite, that may or may not be true. But noone has suggested that supply is actually decreasing today, nor will it for the next several decades. More and more oil is discovered every year, and exciting new ways of extracting oil from previously useless sources are being explored. If crude prices remain above about $30, we can begin extracting it from shale and it will be profitable.
If we begin drilling in ANWR and restart the pumps throughout Texas, California, and other states, we can do a lot to lower the price of crude. But this won't solve the problem of refining. We need to lighten the regulation and we need to allow more and bigger refineries to be built. We should also allow people to stockpile refined gasoline to help smooth out the peaks and valleys of demand and supply. It would help a lot if we could build more supply lines and upgrade the ones we have now as well.
You'll notice a common thread: It is environmental activism that is really causing the most significant increase in your gas prices. Get rid of that and you can enjoy your sweet nectar for a more reasonable price. And remember: The purpose of the environmentalists wackos is not to fix the environment, but to shut down our economy and destroy our capitalism.
The radical sect of Islam would either see you dead or "reverted" to Islam.
Thus, IMHO, those narrow inflationary sectors should be ignored for the purposes of calculating inflation, since it produces the impression of inflation when, in fact, the reverse is true..
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
Something tells me these folks didn't buy the right judges...
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
Memory is so slow these days, that the cost of an L2 miss for can be as high as 400 cycles. Basically, a load that hits in the L1 can be as fast as 2-3 cycles of latency. If it misses all the way to the main memory, it's ~400cycles. Two orders of magnitude.
Small is fast; large is slow.
The Raven
The summary shows the name of two RAM manufacturers, but not company fined. Come on, it's not like Hynix is an unknown company.
Due to environmental regulations (not saying they're bad) many oil refineries had to spend billions to meet new requirments and many companies just let them shutdown instead of renovate. To make things even worse companies aren't investing in new refineries because they can't make a good buisness case for it. At least thats what the evil oil men told me.
Boot longhorn?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Although I agree with your general point, you seem to have gotten things mixed up:
Then there's geopolitics. i.e. invading Iraq and then declaring Frace won't be getting any of the oil because they're uncooperative, then getting mad when we discover they weren't obeying our Oil For Food program.
The Oil For Food program violation occured prior to the United States invading Iraq.
I'm Trappped at Berkeley.
Like $21.65 each.
CD prices haven't gone down at all, and the music industry is back to claiming piracy & lost sales and suing customers.
The price fixing lawsuit that they were slapped around with didn't phase them one bit.
i can't believe so many clueless users are saying ram prices are so low etc etc. apparently they don't remember that ram prices were even lower 2+ years ago... and if you can extrapolate, that would mean that today it should even be lower. instead its been going up quite a bit to level off where it is now. i cannot believe the lack of outrage among the people here. 512megs of ram used to be around 50 bucks in 2002... now you'd be lucky to find pc2700 (low end) ram at that price. they must be trying to lower prices recently in order to fool the short-term memory of the public. i'd price fix their asses if it were possible. those f*****s need to give back all the money they legally stole from the public that had no alternative. i'm dreaming but still, its good to dream.
Science : Proprietary , Knowledge : Open Source
The statements above are simple, neat, and so misleading as to be wrong. I do agree with your conclusions, but the argument is really weak.
OPEC wants to make a profit, but has been trying not to make the same mistakes it did in the 70's that resulted in average US fuel economy increase from around 15 to around 25 miles per gallon. Thier main purpose seems to be to ration the supplies so that current prices are not too high, and supplies last as long as possible. There is some price fixing going on, but on balance, I think they serve a useful function, and probably do much to try to keep prices stable. The US mucking around in Iraq probably has more to do with it.
Available supplies are falling, but overall output is remaining rather steady. In fact, the 2004 numbers I have seen shows an increase in output. So supplies are falling, but has anyone really counted that. True, accounting fibs showed us that there was less oil that we thought, but what commodity is truly priced on output 10 years down the road?
Demand is climbing, and china plays a big part. So do bigger houses in the US, and a fall in US fuel effeciency. The demand is not responding to increased price, this is wierd, and it is much bigger than china.
As far as building new refineries, I am sure it is more a matter of need and money than anything else. After the 70's, i believe the US was overcapcity. No refinaries were needed for many years. It appears from what I have read that maybe 10 years ago old refinaries were brought back online and upgraded. We now seem to be in a situation in which we need more capacity, and there is money availble to create it. However, due to the rules the oil industry created, rules that pretty much assumed that new capacity would not soon be needed, it is very difficult to build a new refinery.
The reality is that we are in a bizzare situation in which the normal rules of supply and demand seem to be suspended. People in the west are buying huge cars and huge houses, even if they will require huge amount of hugely expecsive fuel to run. China is lending money to the west to buy chinese products that are produced in factories that will require huge amounts of fuel to create, and, in the end, will unlikely turn a profit. It is a wacko world. It may end soon, and badly, as we are unlikely going to build more capacity, fuel costs will continue to rise, and only a major crash will bring us to out senses.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
You didn't think this huge judgement was to protect consumers did you? It's to punish people who sell products to consumers at unfairly low prices. So that does mean that any RAM you buy from them in the next year will be more expensive than it would have been without this fine.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Your explanation is also wrong.
The price of gas is shooting up to sky-high levels for many reasons:
a) Terrorists blowing up pipelines and oil infrastructure, mostly in Iraq, but also in other countries as well.
b) Industry is NOT investing in expanding capacity, at a time of high demand. Free Market theory says that they will. We've had 5 years of inflated oil prices, and no indication of any oil companies (outside of China) expanding capacity.
c) FTC and SEC regulators turn a blind eye to industry collusion and price-fixing (as was done during the 2000 California energy crisis - it's proven that the market was manipulated, so where's the convictions? where's the fines? where's the tearing up of fraudulent contracts?)
The bugaboo of "Its really hard to get permission to build refineries in the US" is bullshit. Bullshit bullshit bullshit. Yes, there are environmental regs. If they want the benefit of protection of the US military, they can comply with US law, or they're perfectly free to build their refinery in some third-world shithole, without US environmental regs, and ship the gasoline here. Why don't they do it? Because they're afraid of a revolution, and losing the refinery to nationalization, or they're afraid of guerilla/insurgent/sabotage action (ie, they want US-taxpayer-funded military security). At a time of record profits for the industry, they don't want to invest in expanding capacity. Why not? Because they know damn well that working together, they can keep prices at a profitable level, and they also know that reserves are going to be in decline from here on out (Hubbart Peak).
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Do not confuse technological improvement with deflation. Today, I can buy a gig of ram for $100. 10 years ago, it would have cost me $10000.
That's not deflation. The product has changed, not the price.
A more accurate comparison is to say that today I could buy "a reasonable amount of RAM" for $100, and that 10 years ago that same "reasonable amount of RAM" would have been $100 well.
The only trend toward deflation in this industry comes with the general increase in demand due to computers getting easier to use and more people using them.
Just as soon as they get the California powerplant operators to refund the overcharges from 2000-2001. Refiners have US drivers by the balls same way now. Don't like the price of gas? Here's the answer: *buy less gas*!
Blow it out your ass, jerk wad.
Find something in that to critique.
When I bought a gig PC-133 back in 2000 it cost me nearly $1024
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
I like Samsung. I think they make excellent products, for the price. I'm thankful that my...uh....shit....I'm hesitant to say this, but....faith in Samsung is still intact. I have no doubt they've done some underhanded shit and just haven't been caught, yet.
But Hynix and Rambus are a load of complete fucksticks. Even I know that. To see Hynix caught in their ass is good for morale, but I want to see people (read: the managers and CEO) beat with canepoles on live television. I want humiliation and personal well-being at stake, to get some deterrence on this issue in the future.
I'm half cocked, and read this differently first time I read it and made me laugh more than when I read it more sober.
The American public knows what it wants, and deserves what it gets. Good and hard.
Does this explain why 128MB ram shot up from $14 CAD to $40 CAD within a year during 1999-2002? The DRAM manufacturers *flooded* the market with DRAM chips and then artificially cut production to raise prices when everyone was hooked to the low price. Higher DRAM prices just made everyone go in a panic and started to buy all the DRAM chips at the lowest price while the price was rising.
Refuting someone who was Offtopic and Redundant is considered a Troll? That just doesn't make sense.
I think the main evidence is that all of the gas stations charge relatively the same price for gas.
Have you been reading any news lately? Probaly not.
Opec is going to raise oil production by 500,000 barrels around May,in order to help bring down the price of oil per barrel.
In my opinion, its the traders in oil stock that is keeping oil artifically high due to pure speculation. Because as you oil companies are making record profits.
Or if he bothered to read three lines below the headline!
Are you sure about that? Texas Instruments is a big defense contractor, and designed a number of the laser guided bombs used in Iraq and Afganistan. And Texas Instruments was a major DRAM company a few years back before selling to Micron, and Micron was accused of price fixing. ;)
I can assure, it wasn't the anti war peoploe in the SUV, it was the screaming redneq turned commuter.
The anti war people all drive honda civics and hyundai's.
Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
They do?
Last I checked, each person pays 15% of their paycheck to SS and medcaid. Then the lowest tax bracket is 10%. that is 35% for the poorest people. Then about 5% to the state and another 5% to sales tax. State taxes rival the federal income tax pretty easilly. Don't even get me started on property tax.
Considering there are much higher than 10% tax brackets, we pay a lot of taxes.. (of course most "small busineses" write it all off and never pay a tax but that is another story altogether). We pay so much yet have nothing to show for it except a bunch of schools shutting down because of ignorant presidents.
Your ignorance is infinitely greater than you realize.
http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/topofthehour.aspx?Story Id=3274
he National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) on Thursday said it has arrested two British nationals with $3 trillion fake US federal bank notes in their possession, DZMM reported.
NBI Director Reynaldo Wycoco identified the suspects as Paul Edward John Flavell and Sam Beany. The two listed their address as Unit 305 CEO Apartments in Jupiter Street, Makati City.
The suspects were not physically present during the press conference called by Wycoco at the NBI office in Taft Avenue, Manila. Only the suspects' photographs were shown to reporters.
Wycoco said NBI agents have also launched a manhunt for two other British nationals involved in the syndicate.
The two other suspects are Seki Mehmet Bayram and Peter Whittkamp.
Flavell and Beany's arrest came following a tip from international cargo forwarder DHL Philippines Inc. on April 14, Wycoco said.
The tip was about a shipment consigned to two foreigners, which was pending at the company warehouse.
The forwarder said the cargo was bound for Zurich, Switzerland.
The NBI dispatched a team to the DHL office. The agents were able to chance upon the suspects as they were paying the airway bill amounting to P53,967.
Company records show the suspects paid using a credit card.
Wycoco said Flavell and Beany did not resist arrest after they were made to open the cast-iron boxes containing bogus federal bank reserve certificates.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Wasn't George bush part of this?
i remember reading a while ago about him putting a tax on imported ram cause some korean company was selling ram at a price lower than what micron was producing it at. conveniently, micron had donated 180 million dollars(ballpark, not 100% sure about the figure. this was a while ago.) to the bush campaign for 2000.
Tell me why every gas station in my area ALWAYS has the same prices set? When one changes the price, they all match it. What happened to competition?
The price of the $1 chocolate bars doesn't change every day, why should gas.
But Shell's gas is always mysteriously one cent more expensive...
I am scientifically inaccurate.
This announcement is for Hynix only. The writer of the summary adds the following misinformation, "Micron and Infineon have also been fined for their role in the scheme." Infineon did plead guilty and settle for a fine, but Micron and Samsung are the two manufacturers that haven't settled yet.
We may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode. -Capt. Mal Reynolds