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NASA Ponders Postponing Launch until July
BitFluid writes "According to Sun-Sentinel.com, NASA is considering postponing its Return to Flight shuttle launch because of 'ongoing concern about possible ice buildup on a liquid oxygen propellant line.' Apparently, that stuff turns into debris on launch, a risk they need time to investigate. If delayed, the target launch window becomes July 13 through July 31."
Postpone it again? Thats cold man...real cold
Let's stop messing around with this piece of shit and develop something wonderful through international cooperation. Just like in The Contact.
Hmm.. I guess they need my shovell. It take care of my car during winter.
hilarious
Hm. Since NASA is so afraid of ice debris, I guess we won't be landing on any comet that's on a collision course with earth anytime soon.
On the other side, there's enough ice on Mars, carrying the extra weight over there to make some cold Bailey's would just be silly.
Why don't you take the money you're spending on bandwidth and spend it again on charities that help third world countries? The moral position you're arguing in favor of would require it.
Scientific research is a necessity to improve the quality of life for everyone on the planet. Human space flight is an important avenue for scientific research.
By the way, for the record, the 2003 US budget for food aid was $2.5B; for the Shuttle, the budget was $3.1B.
Remember all the ice raining off the Mercury, Gemini, and Apollo rockets in the launch movies?
All those guys said was "Let's light this candle"
Spray de-icer on it? Wrap it in an insulator? Blow warm dry air over it? Why can't there be a low tech solution to this?
They could stop the shuttle program and use the money in the few years in between now and when the new man-rated launch-vehicle comes out to seed promising space initiatives by private firms. I'm sure this would more than pay for itself.
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
read this as "NASA Ponders Postponing Lunch until July?
Apparenly the delay is due to a sensor failure that occured during tank testing. The delay will assist with getting a few other things sorted too, like cleaning up a hydraulic fluid spill.
NasaSpaceFlight.com has a nice write-up about it.
Here's ANN's coverage of the story.
If you're interested in this and similar sort of news, ANN is a great daily news site you should probably check out.
~Lake
It's not like the shuttle's gonna blow up or anything.
Jeez...
This postponement is so they will have more time to copy the features of Tiger...
Scientific research is a necessity to improve the quality of life for everyone on the planet. Human space flight is an important avenue for scientific research.
By the way, for the record, the 2003 US budget for food aid was $2.5B; for the Shuttle, the budget was $3.1B.
Granted but I still think those $3.1 would have been better spent researching a Shuttle successor rather than keeping those things in operation, they are way past their prime. If the USA can produce an aircraft like the F-22 which (if you believe the Pentagon's hype) has made all the worlds airforces obsolete in a singe sweeping stroke; why on earth is the USA still pissing about with 1970s technology for its space program? You would think the US aviation industry could come up with something better than the Shuttle in a matter of a few years.
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
NASA have postponed until July.
NASA did the job once, but since then they've done nothing but screw shit up.
It's time for Congress to get off their asses and ACT. Jerry Pournelle came up with the idea, which would get us a complete spaceflight system in five years, and only cost 10 Billion Dollars.
How?
Congress must pass TWO lines of legislation.
1) It is in the National Interest of the United States to have a mature spaceflight technology.
2) The Tresurer of The United States is directed to pay, tax free, the sum of TEN BILLION DOLLARS to the first American Company to keep thirty Americans alive and well on the surface of the moon for Three Years and A Day.
That's it folks. If we ain't got it, it's cause BUSH and Co don't want us to have it.
( Not that Klin-ton wanted us to have it, either, though... This idea ain't new. )
All we lack is the will to achieve great things. Killing kids over lies, that we can do. "Supporting Our Troops", check.
Pass TWO LINES of legislation to ensure AMERICANS have a stake in The Future? Nah...
Technology -- No Place For Wimps! Grateful Dead and Jerry Garcia Chatroom -- http://www.wemissjerry.org
"If we die, do not mourn for us. This is a risky business we're in, and we accept those risks. The space program is too valuable to this country to be halted for too long if a disaster should ever happen."
Gus Grissom
How is it we can visit the moon on multiple occassions in the much younger times of technological capability (even before electronic calculators for god's sake), but when we have advanced our technology we find ourselves topped in mid-countdown because of ice?
I say toss out the newer technology and let's look at what the guys in the first few launches did with older technology that made it so successful, and without the continual nagging for perfection in a job enviroment where risk is not only high, but will forever remain that way due to the very nature of space travel.
I decided to fulfill a lifelong wish and see this launch in person. So I booked my vacation when they announced May 15 was the target date.
Then they bumped it back to May 22 last week, and I had to scramble to rebook everything.
Now they've fucking pushed it back to July. This is the kind of luck I have. If I were to move to Florida, they'd probably cancel the fucking space program and de-orbit the ISS.
Thanks, NASA! I should have known to wait for a few launches to come and go, so you got complacent again and started putting timetables before safety once more.
I'm still taking the trip in May because there's other stuff I want to do/see down there (plus the airlines are downright vicious with the cancellation fees). I'll just fly back down for a day or two when they finally get their shit together.
Delaying the launch would give NASA more time to also address several other nagging technical issues."
Well, that is a relief! Better you don't rush the launch like they did with Challenger, give it time to really fix the problem. I am thinking they need to build something like the Skunkworks reusable vehicle that launches like a plane, instead of going up on a bunch of hydrogen. If only they had a millenium falcon.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
I realize that you are attempting to make a joke through the association of forth of July fire works displays and previous shuttle explosions. I realize "this is slashdot" but i find your attempt at humor rather crude. The astronauts who died in those explosions gave their lives for education, the advancement of science and the betterment of human kind. I would hope that someone who frequents slashdot.org who have more respect for them than you have demonstrated.
The way to a man's heart is through the left ventricle
Man, being a Rocket Scientist sounds harder every time I see one of these stories.
[% slash_sig_val.text %]
Geez, you gotta feel sorry for these guys. They are proably quintuply(sp?) checking everything! If this one goes boom there will be hell to pay. Poor bastards. I hate management and stupid media. Whats the odds of something going wrong with a flight? pretty high? 5-20%?
And how many accidents have they had in 40 years of space flight? Not many. Come on, they had to have a few bad years.
Best of luck to them! All the best NASA! There area lot of people who love you from the old days. You were and still are the technological pioneers of the world!
More like a bottle rocket.
We have PE in school, its just a joke, thats all. Basically has to do with the fact that most people don't feel they need to work hard at anything in life, they just seem to think they are entitled to everything. That, my friend, is the New American Way! Back to the topic at hand, though, it sure does cost a lot to launch a shuttle, but think of all the money it pumps into the economy.
Mid to late July is typically when the hurricane season starts to really pick up steam. I would suspect that there will be more delays before the launch.
While I would hate to see the shuttle system scrapped due to another avoidable crash, I would also be disappointed to see NASA delay the launch until late November.
Well, I agree that it pumps alot of money into the economy, both directly and indirectly. Look at all the advances as a result of the space race. I just wish we had "space race II", I feel it would probably do a lot of good for the economy and the country. And btw... PE IS a joke, but thats because its required in high school. Where I went to school, it was little more than a poke in the eye for anyone with any accidemic achivement, kindof a way of saying "look the people that can't count past 10 are better at something then you" even if it was throwing a ball into a basket. chears, mike
1. Durrr geee not all de-icers are flammable (ever been in an aeroplane? that pink crap they spray on the wings is de-icer. it's ethanol with anti-combustion agents blended in. 2 you could wrap it in a vacuum sleeve. very thin, very light, very efficient. 3 er, no. you need a varying temperature gradient for that - the purpose of the air would not be to heat the pipe, just to prevent moisture from being in the air around it. picture a hairdrier.
Come on, think of the big picture here. I know being simplistic and small-minded is the catch-phrase of our "new generation". But what if they said this 40 years ago? Why even go to space? Look at all of the technologies we have developed whilst trying to get there. We would not be able to live without half of these advances! (Especially the freeze dried food).
More importantly, compare $3.1B against:
(a) amount spent on pizzas in the US
(b) amount spent on election campaigns
(c) amount paid to actors for acting?
If you are going to be fair, then be fair. Talk about it being a capitalist world, and that we only give money for food at all because we are:
(a) making ourselves look better on the world stage
(b) appeasing that guilty little bit of ourselves
Good luck NASA! You guys will be the ones that get us off the planet one day.
FloridaToday.com has an article this morning indicating that they *have* postponed the launch.
? AID=/20050429/NEWS02/504290343/1007
http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article
One thing I quickly learned after moving down here to the "Space Coast" area, is that Florida Today usually knows before anyone else does!
The simple truth is the average American just doesn't care anymore. Congress is only concerned when NASA funding will bring pork and jobs to their districts. There's no long term commitment, funding, motivation, or fascinating technology there. The average Joe would rather watch SciFi, it's cheaper, less dangerous and fits his 60 to 90 minute attention span. Maybe it is time to scrap manned exploration for now and de-orbit that international boondoggle.
1. As long as it takes for the ice to be removed before launch
2. Really? how much did you pay for your last thermos? You must have been ripped off. And if it's icing up, then no, it isn't insulted like that.
3. Again, it only needs to be done directly before launch
RTFA, AC. All they're worried about is ice falling off it when it launches. If ice is removed before launch, it's a non issue.
It is sad that PE is a joke, especially in the Southern US. I don't know where you are from, but they sure do grow 'em big down here! Its sad, actually. People here need to realize that all-you-can-eat buffets are a concept, not a rule!
Actually, it was a brain fart .... oops. I did mean Avro.
Although Avril is not too shabby either.
gus
.. if only.
Anyone known what preventative measure they're looking to employ?
* hydrophobic coating on lines?
* insulation on lines?
* heat tracing lines?
* mechanical deicing?
* chemical deicing?
* trained, highly skilled gerbils? --my vote
Never ascribe to malice what can be adequately attributed to ignorance. -Napoleon
Not to mention, NASA would then have two big events competing for air time, the shuttle and the comet-impacting probe that is set to collide on 7/4/05
Moot point, since the launch window for the shuttle starts on the 13th.
While your argument sounds good, you're using Straw Man numbers. The government is only one small piece of the pie.
The amount of aid given by private charities is many times more than what the governemnt gives. Consider how much is anually given by: United Way, Red Cross, the Catholic Church, 1000's of other Christian churches, etc.
Oh how I tire of liberals with government tunnel-vision. The private sector has always (and always will) do more food aide, and do it more effeciently.
-MrLogic
NASA is not going to launch another shuttle. They're just going to play the "One more thing" game 'till everyone gets bored with it and gives up. Even when the shuttles were working it was nearly impossible to plan a vacation around it: you'd wait on the intercoastal for 5 hours with your scanner listenening to rebroadcast NASA transmission only to have the launch scrubbed when the 2-minute hold goes into the launch window.
The moral is: never plan your trip around a shuttle launch. An atlas or titan launch, that's another story - you can get a bit closer since they're launched from canaveral rather than kennedy - though they delay those as well.
Florida Today has good coverage of spacey things. Scan the pages for upcoming launches. It's too bad you won't be in town on May 11. There's a delta 2 launch.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
Am I the only one who initially read this as 'NASA Ponders Postponing Lunch until July'?
It may be a case of 20-20 hindsight, but trying to keep giant tanks of cryogenic gases cool and ice free in Florida seems a mistake. Granted, there are huge advantages to being located towards the south, so heat is a given, but the whole icing problem would have been reduced by launching from Edwards, Yuma, or White Sands.
I wonder if anyone has considered wrapping the tanks loosly in mylar and blowing dry air in to create a bubble. You'd get some thermal barrier effect and avoid ice. The trick would be to rip the mylar off in the seconds before launch, but some Vegas magicians could teach NASA how to do that.
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
What the hell is PE?
No sig today.
it would seem we're way past just doing away with the shuttle flight programs at the moment-- so it would seem reasonable to set about fixing the icing problem-- reminds me of icing problem on jetliners' wings during winter, while stuck on the ground, because of wintry flight delays-- you engineer guys can chime in on this: surely the smart folks there at the Cape Canaveral launch sites can come up with some sort of ground-based de-icing system-- the launch towers provide all manner of ground-based support for the vehicles, it would seem perfect for adding on the necessary technology modified from existing systems already utilized at major airports?
1 It doesn't need to delay the launch, it can be done concurrently - much like they don't stop fuelling even until the damn thing is beginning to leave the ground
2 Inuslation[sic] Cryogenic insulators aren't that expensive - for liquid He the cost is greater, but not that much - He is liquid below 3.8k only. A good vacuum is a good vacuum. And to be honest, it wouldn't need to be *that* great to do the job - an average thermos would do the trick - it's how we transported lox for experiments back at uni.
3. See 1.
Physical Education. Gym. At least in the school I teach its a chance for the school to babysit 40-50 kids at one time with only one teacher. No, wait, its supposed to help students learn the importance of staying physically fit and healthy. I think. I'll know more once our state beings standardized testing for physical education.
I've often wondered what what happen if all the money spent on "professional" sports in the US was spent on spaceflight instead. Hell, the Superbowl alone would probably pay for several launches.
Wanna know the kicker? It was developed by NASA for long duration space flights.
The basic design flaw of the shuttle is that it's a vehicle that sits on the side of the booster. Anything that goes wrong with the booster, or falls off the booster, can damage the orbiter.
None of this would be an issue if the stages and orbiter were arranged vertically.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
NASA should certainly fix any bad design in the Space Shuttle and it's launch procedure. But basically going to space is dangerous and I wonder if what they are going after now are unavoidable risks of having both very hot and very cold stuff onboard. Personally I would accept a 10% risk to my life for seeing space and helping serious science like repairing Hubble and I am sure so would thousands of other people. They should continue flying both shuttles and do cool stuff including sending space tourists until whatever replacement launch vehicles are ready. Look at how many people die in Iraq, in car accidents or doing extreme sports just for kicks. Compared to that, a space flight is much more safe and meaningful.
Read the article. There is a plan to use infrared from sources 500 feet (meters? I forget the units) away. However engineers are not confident that it will work. Blowers might work, except that you either need them on the tank (more weight to lift, and not areadynamic), or you put them on the platform and hope they never fail to retract after the main engines are lit.
.... More importantly, compare $3.1B against: (d) amount spent making religious leaders rich.
Think your right? Prove it.
The astronauts who died in the latest shuttle accident did so for a massively inefficient government jobs program that uses antiquated, dangerous technology, and I would hope that someone who frequents slashdot would refrain from the sort of phony riteous indignation that politicians are so fond of. I call bullshit.
"OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
The lunar surface has a huge amount of oxygen in it. Spend a few hundred million to get O2 out of the surface and you are in business.
Biosphere failed because the people involved were all a bunch of arrogant scientists and academics, iconoclasts that could not get along. If you want to put lots of people into space, you have to do it military style, run things like an 18th century warship. They would be out at sea for years and order was kept by a rigid social hierarchy. There are no worker's rights in space exploration!
This is my sig.
Why don't you *both* take the money you're spending talking about what else to do with the money we're spending on the shuttle, and use it to set up aerospace companies in third-world countries to build your *own* space shuttle, and then fly it into space, and then come back and post your adventures. Yeah.
Man, So the shuttle blew up. Boohoo. We all know space travel is inherantly dangerous. Anybody here think it is safe to sit on top of literally tons of highly reactive compounds and mixing them is without risks? NASA knew it, the austronaughts knew it. I'm not saying it doesn't suck that those people died, it does. It's just that everyone knew the risks and took them. That's no reason to stop space travel because of that. We've actually had a remarkabley low number of accidents considering the risks. If someone offered me a seat on that shuttle tomorrow, I'd be there in a heartbeat.
Scientist: People, we're in danger of losing our funding. America isn't interested in space exploration any more.
Assistant: Maybe we should finally tell them the big secret: that all the chimps we sent into space came back super-intelligent.
Chimp: No, I don't think we'll be telling them _that_.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I think NASA has lost confidence in the design. I have. The smaller (and cheaper) SpaceShipOne type design is good for people. If NASA wants to launch some gear into space then assemble for use in space then launch the people separately from the equipment.