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Azureus Decentralizes Bittorrent

BobPaul writes "While the eXeem project to decentralize Bittorrent remains in open beta, the Azureus Java Bittorrent project has recently released a major update that, among other things offers 'a distributed, decentralised database that can be used to track decentralised torrents. This permits both "trackerless" torrents and the maintenance of swarms where the tracker has become unavailable or where the torrent was removed from the tracker.' It doesn't contain the search functionality of eXeem, but it's also not a beta product and is licensed under the GPL. Could this and compatible clients be the replacement to SuprNova and Lokitorrents, or does the lack of search negate its effectiveness?"

23 of 672 comments (clear)

  1. Torrent distribution by Joakim+A · · Score: 4, Informative

    Torrents could be distributed in the swarms too. Possibly according to user preferences if the swarm has many torrents/many types of data. Could get really nice. We do need a python version though..

    (Cant access the linked sites due to company policy (they allow /. :) so i don't know if this is supported.)

    1. Re:Torrent distribution by afd8856 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Because it needs X to run. I want to run it remote, in console version.

      --
      I'll do the stupid thing first and then you shy people follow...
    2. Re:Torrent distribution by ratpack91 · · Score: 3, Informative

      you can run azureus headless and control it from the web interface- link

    3. Re:Torrent distribution by golgotha007 · · Score: 3, Informative

      ALthough Azureus is one of the better java written applications I've used, it still feels like java.

      Everything updates just a little slow. You can be downloading via torrent something and have like 18%.
      Then, go to another workspace and then later when I click back onto the Azureus workspace, it still shows 18% for about a second, then bam, all the values update. It's not my machine (p4,3.0ghz, gig ram).

      Azureus, as an application, totally rules. It would be excellent in C or even python.

    4. Re:Torrent distribution by Errtu76 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I didn't look at the screenshots. I do have the application running at home, so i can tell you that this client is a plugin. And according to my knowledge of plugins, it means it can be disabled.

      Correct me if i'm wrong. I start to doubt as well now (not that it's bloated - only an (minimalistic) irc client doesn't make an app bloated) wether or not it can be removed/disabled.

    5. Re:Torrent distribution by jridley · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'd like to see it ported to something other than Java. I really like Azareus's interface, and it works well, but it scales horribly. I really can't use it. I tried it out and it seemed good, then I tried using it as my main service, and it just destroyed my system. Try seeding 30 or 40 torrents out of a modest (2GHz, 1GB RAM) machine sometime. It's horrible. If you're web browsing, editing/encoding video, using PhotoShop, scanning film, etc on the same machine, you'll be crying.

      By contrast, BitComet (or multiple BitTornado instances) can do that and I don't even know it's running.

      If all you're doing is leeching, then Azareus is great. I do recommend it to people. But BitComet is more scalable. I also use BitTornado for a day or two on new torrents, because BitComet doesn't super-seed.

    6. Re:Torrent distribution by k98sven · · Score: 4, Informative

      GNU Classpath and JamVM are smaller and faster than Suns JRE but they may not run Azureus yet.

      No, JamVM (although extremly small ~200kB) isn't anywhere near as fast as the Sun JRE. JamVM is an interpreter, not a JIT VM. But it's fast as far as VMs go.

      If you want a Classpath-based VM which is fast you should look at Jikes RVM or Kaffe, or perhaps consider compiling to native with GCJ.

      Azureus uses native GUI widgets by way of the Eclipse SWT so if JamVM supports the required communication methods between VM and System alright, then it won't be too hard to run.

      JamVM handles native calls without problems. I've run Eclipse and other SWT apps on it myself.

      However, Azureus doesn't run on Classpath yet. It's very close to it.. But there's still one or two small issues with the Classpath libraries. If someone wants to help out with this, email the classpath list (classpath@gnu.org) or drop in on #classpath on FreeNode. You'll be 'liberating' Azureus and helping free java at the same time.

  2. Kind of been done... by Gilesx · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is a little like Shareaza.

    Shareaza has support for Gnutella, Gnutella 2, Edonkey and Bittorrent. As it provides a "bridge" between these networks, it means I am able to search for torrents from the two Gnutella networks, and edk. When I have this torrent, I can open it using the bittorrent part of Shareaza, and if that torrent is down, Shareaza will still hash the torrent and attempt to download the appropriate files from the Gnutella and eDonkey neworks. It's a nice idea, and really unites all the various p2p methods, using each method's strength to give an all round solid result.

    I'm surprised that it's taken Azureus this long to catch up, and I'm sure we'll start to see a lot more bittorrent clients either offering their own solutions to this issue, or as in the case of Shareaza, using existing p2p networks to give backup to the Bittorrent protocol.

    --
    Sunday you're Thinking Different, Monday you're a huge tool, paying too much and waiting to think like everyone else.
  3. This is not anything new. by solidox · · Score: 5, Informative

    The bittorrent client BitComet has been doing this for a long time now.
    Simply what it does is shares lists of peers between clients for matching infohashes...
    It dosn't nessecerely decentralize it or remove the need for a tracker, as you need to get at least 1 ip from a member of the swarm (who has a compatible client)
    It can help to get new peers if a tracker fails half way through, but you still need the initial peers ips from a tracker or similar.

    --
  4. Re:Tor by moonbender · · Score: 3, Informative
    Oh. The Tor guys won't like that. People figured out how to run BT over Tor a while ago (I tried it myself in January after seeing a presentation on Tor). Google for anonbt and you end up on a subsection of the Azureus homepage, saying:
    Please *DO NOT* use Tor for routing peer-to-peer data traffic, it can not handle the bandwidth. They have indicated that they will make efforts to ban such usage if it continues, which will likely affect both legitimate and unwanted use!
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    Switch back to Slashdot's D1 system.
  5. Re:Using it now by willdenniss · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's UDP so there's no sockets anyway. Datagrams are connectionless and have far less overheads.

    76,000 would still kill most apps though...

    Will.

  6. Re:I don't understand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Because if you decentralize the tracker you remove a sincle point of failure thus make the system that distributes ISO far more reliable.

  7. Re:This is great by IANAAC · · Score: 2, Informative
    I hate when I stop a torrent, because I need to use my connection for something else...

    Why would you have to shut it down for other things? You realize you can throttle the up/down torrent bandwidth within the application, don't you? In Azureus, you can change the values without having to restart the app, too.

  8. Re:Breaking file share ratios at private sites by izomiac · · Score: 2, Informative

    AFAIK the client still will still report its stats to the tracker. The only way this could be exploited is if people just stopped connecting to the tracker all together. Some sites are banning BitComet for this reason (since you can connect then manually change the tracker address to something invalid). Kinda pointless though, changing a useragent is simple, and if you want to leech then there are various clients that are better at it/falsify ratios.

  9. Re:This is great by Kabal` · · Score: 2, Informative

    Azureus has for a while now, cached the results of your last successful tracker scrape. So you could close it, then reload it later and even before connecting to the tracker, still have a bunch of IP's ready to try.

  10. em.. by Stu+Charlton · · Score: 4, Informative

    Let's get some perspective. 266MHz isn't "a year or two" ago, it's been SEVEN YEARS since Intel released the P2 @ 266mhz. I have a 233MHz from that era, and you can barely even run Firefox on it (IE runs "OK"). Furthermore, 1997-1998 would be the era of Java 1.1 and 1.2, which were significantly slower.

    These days, and since the year 2000 with the release of Java 1.3, Java UI's have been very usable. And Java is much faster than Python; it's comparing mixed mode dynamic compilation (Java) vs. interpreted (Python)! Pysco's JIT release in 2003 may have sped things up somewhat, but it's far from mainstream.

    As for running on a 266Mhz machine, what's "plenty" of Python apps? Were they all graphical? I think you'd find graphical Python to be pretty pokey (pyGTK or what have you). Command-line Java is pretty fast.

    --
    -Stu
    1. Re:em.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      1. Python is JITed only with Psyco, which many apps don't use. Even when JITed, Python is *much* slower (up to 150x on worst cases, believe it or not) than Java on raw numeric computation, method calls etc.
      2. Jython doesn't convert Python to Java bytecode. Jython is a Python interpreter written in Java, thus much slower than running plain Java (200x slowdown thanks to interpretation is pretty common). Java bytecode doesn't even allow the dynamic constructs that Python uses.

  11. dumbest thing ever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    This is so dumb:
    the replacement to SuprNova and Lokitorrents, or does the lack of
    search negate its effectiveness?"

    The point is to complete your 1.4 GB download
    that is at 1.0 GBs, not to search. You can easily
    search for torrents and trackers and torrent search engine
    cough**isohunt**mininova**

    just type allinurl:torrent simpsons season OR complete

  12. A few notes by JPelorat · · Score: 2, Informative

    Rather a lot of bullets are spent on paper and animal targets. More than 1% of the total, guaranteed.

    A significant portion of the vs-person use of guns is justified and legal and occurs every day all around the world. Self-defense and apprehension of criminals being the two most common examples.

    Using extreme exaggeration as an appeal to authority is self-defeating. Easpecially when you attempt to lay down 'the truth'.

    My signature may be of some help in this matter.

    --
    Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
  13. mldonkey by tepples · · Score: 2, Informative

    Plus, there is no official support for non-Windows platforms.

    The eMule client itself is not official. If you want official, look at eDonkey Basic for Linux. Or just use mldonkey like everyone else does.

  14. Re:A step in the right direction... by MBGMorden · · Score: 2, Informative

    xMule, mldonkey, and aMule.

    All work fine. No they're not "official" eMule, but eMule itself isn't official. It's just client for a P2P network for which eDonkey2000 is the official client (and it DOES have official versions for non-Windows platforms).

    --
    "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  15. Some statistics by Saanvik · · Score: 3, Informative

    Good point, you should have done it rather than posting about it.

    Here are some statistics for your hungry little minds.

    From the Illinois Council against Handgun Violence

    In 2002, there were 30,242 gun deaths in the U.S.

    Digging a little deeper, from the Department of Justice

    The number of gunshot wounds from assaults treated in hospital emergency departments fell from 64,100 in 1993 to 39,400 in 1997, a 39% decline. Homicides committed with a firearm fell from 18,300 in 1993 to 13,300 in 1997, a 27% decline.

    And from the Burlington Free Press

    Vermont's loss of hunters is part of a national trend. The number of hunters declined from 14.06 million to 13.03 million, or 7.3 percent, from 1991 to 2001, according to the Census Bureau and the Fish and Wildlife Service. The drop was greater in the West -- 9.6 percent, from 2.46 million to 2.22 million.

    Not a direct comparison, but it's hard to find numbers detailing the number of times a gun was discharged at a person versus discharged at an animal or target. Nevertheless, it's pretty apparent the original poster was incorrect. The vast majority of shooting in the US is not at people, but at animals and targets.

    So, back on topic. The analogy was not a good one. A closer analogy could be made for handguns (handguns are not designed for hunting, but a lot of people do use them for target practice), but it still wouldn't be a good one.

  16. Re:A step in the right direction... by susa-no-o · · Score: 2, Informative

    That is totally, completely ridiculous. You are almost three times as likely to die if there's a gun in your house than if there isn't. If guns had some amazing self defense value where only .1 % (!) of the time you had to actually shoot it, then the mortality rate would be lower because if there's a gun in your house, you could defend yourself from murder better. Just from googling it (which apparently you can't be bothered to do), I believe you're referring to "Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review". In this paper, the conclusion is that there is no strong evidence that right to carry laws either increase crime, or decrease crime. They conclude that more research must be carried out. I'm inclined to agree. Guns don't increase crime, but they don't decrease crime, either. If you want to go around waving a gun, thinking it makes you safer, go ahead, but don't blame me when that gun blows up in your face.