Slashdot Mirror
Azureus Decentralizes Bittorrent
BobPaul writes "While the eXeem project to decentralize Bittorrent remains in open beta, the Azureus Java Bittorrent project has recently released a major update that, among other things offers 'a distributed, decentralised database that can be used to track decentralised torrents. This permits both "trackerless" torrents and the maintenance of swarms where the tracker has become unavailable or where the torrent was removed from the tracker.' It doesn't contain the search functionality of eXeem, but it's also not a beta product and is licensed under the GPL. Could this and compatible clients be the replacement to SuprNova and Lokitorrents, or does the lack of search negate its effectiveness?"
... but the RIAA/MPAA lawyer teams don't need to start hiring again just yet.
does the lack of search negate its effectiveness?
I'd say it "limits" it's effectiveness, not negates it. It's not really de-centralized if you still have to rely on sites like suprnova in order to search for stuff, is it? This is a major reason why BitTorrent hasn't completely dominated eMule yet.
But since this removes another potential point of failure in the network (the tracker), it is still a good thing(tm).
After upgrading a few hours ago, I opened up the appropriate UDP prts as requested (pol;itely I might add) & watched the number of clients that I was trackerlessly connected to rise from ~50,000 ot more than 76,000
I've used it for a long time now, but the latest itteration just seems to go beyond the call of duty.
Go Away! Not for Sale
This kind of thing is not new ANts P2P is a decentralized, encrypted anonymous protocol that works in the same way as BitTorrent. From the page "ANts P2P realizes a third generation P2P net. It protects your privacy while you are connected and makes you not trackable, hiding your identity (ip) and crypting everything you are sending/receiving from others." Why not give that a try?
We do need a python version though..
No we don't. This (java) version works perfectly already. Why does this _need_ to be ported?
I gained a lot of respect for Java apps when I tried Azureus for the first time. It was at least 6-7x faster than the official client or Tomato Torrent on OS X, and it connects to way more hosts for me. Like I said, I'm on OS X, so I've never tried exeem.
Making it easier to get to torrents is all well and good, but let's keep in mind that most of the *legal* stuff available through bittorrent is easy to find as it is.
Slashdot: 24 hours behind every other site or your money back!
How will the trackerless stuff interact with sites that require login? In the normal case you would login to the website and after that the tracker only allows you to connect from the same IP, but does the new trackerless thingie allow anyone to connect to these swarms? Might be (way too) good way to get past share ratio requirements.
It also looks like they integrated Tor into the client, which should lead to fairly interesting results. When a client as popular as Azureus has anonymity built in, I think some people might be angry.
When the **AA see an IP address downloading from an infringing torrent, they direct their lawsuits towards the account holder for that IP. This puts people running Tor at risk of being sued. Is "It wasn't me, it was another Tor user" a valid defense? Are people going to be held accountable for the traffic that passes through their Tor server?
I was also interested to see they included 'Joltid Peer Cache (JPC)' - in their words "Joltid Peer Cache (JPC) is now integrated into Azureus. For users whose ISP support this, JPC should allow faster downloads, while helping the ISP reduce its bandwidth costs. The JPC Plugin is safe in the way that your ISP won't know what you are downloading, and can't use it to spy on you."
Given that torrents are supposed to account from anywhere between 30-70% of all internet traffic, depending on who you believe - this could go a long way towards easing bandwidth consumption issues. Of course, I have no idea how many ISPs are actually using this, the website http://www.joltid.com/index.php/peercache/ is rather limited in it's information, and a google for the name reveals that there is still some question over the legality, so a lot of ISPs are keeping their heads down and using it on the quiet.
For flash traffic, such as a new game demo being released - or even torrented anime, which often sees in excess of 10-20 thousand people downloading it within 48 hours for the more popular series, this could save ISPs a lot of money.
I heard about eXeem a while back when SuprNova disbanded... the creator's next project or something. I also heard that it was being backed by spyware companies... so I haven't jumped to try it out. Could someone who has tried out eXeem give their thoughts about it?
Whatever you may be sure of, be sure of this: that you are dreadfully like other people. - James Russell Lowell
Was looking foward to using as as soon as i heard they updated.But looks like the OSX port is not avalible yet.Must be working a version that is compatible with Tiger.
Sure, search for decentralised trackers might be convenient; but it would probably make it rather easier for everyone(read *IAA) to find all the good stuff rather quickly. Without search we've got a formidable tool; bittorrent efficiency added onto the standard "I know a guy who knows a guy" search method of the good old social darknet.
This tech should be very useful on the public trackers (no registration required) as the torrents will continue to work even when the tracker is offline.
But what about the sites where a ratio is enforced so people seed and not just leech? This might break it as the clients might not talk to the main tracker anymore.
Is it even possible to enforce share ratios with distributed tracking?
Many projects means developers will be spread thin, negating the old "Many eyes make all bugs shallow". Developers for Azureus will have to work harder to implement new things and fix bugs, since developers who could have helped them are working on other projects.
These would be developers who really know and like working in Python - rather than Java - to begin with. If they didn't do a Python reimplementation, they would do another Python project, not help on Azureus.
And as I wrote, doing a reimplementation does help shake out bugs and mistakes in the protocol and implementation.
Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
Basicaly, they don't realise it, but they are coming full circle, and the outcome is just going to be a another eDonkey network. Which means, why not just use the existing one.
Here goes one reason: 9500KB pieces
Another: MD5-class hashes
The eD2k network uses oversized basic blocks and weak reference block hashes. Wasting up to 9.28MB because someone sent a bad bit is somewhat wasteful. So far, I have yet to see a torrent with >1MB pieces. Since MD5 is EOL, it is very likely that undetectable corruption exploits will appear in the near future (ViralG?). Killing legacy eD2k would be a good thing - those oversized blocks need to go, hopefully to be replaced by a scalable recursive tree hash.
Because eDonkey sucks?
Seriously every time I have tried to use that network I have quit the download after a day or so of waiting in queues. This is before getting anything at all of the file. It sould be faster to just go down to Germany or whatever by car and copy the file to a CDR and go back.
I know I'm supposed to be online for a while before the eDonkey style queues start working in my favour; but I just can't be bothered.
Also note that BT isn't like a typical P2P as you can't really search for files. This is in fact a "good thing" as it protects you from " Nbr_of_files * Loads_of_cash = You_are_bancrupt" type lawsuits.
AFAIK RSS+Bittorrent type functions aren't available in other networks. (Not that it'd be impossible to add; but it's quite natural in BT.)
All that said, networks like eDonkey, DC et al certainly have their uses. So does BT (even if they add some distributed functionality to it).
Where "long time" is measured in days? It was only released a month or two ago (v0.56+ as I recall.) Azureus has had DHT in the CVS tree for many months now. Proir to the full release, there were only a few thousand running from CVS builds. Now there's nearly 100k and growing within the DHT tree.
The way AZ is doing things, a tracker is not required at all. If you can find one peer, you'll be able to find the entire DHT tree. Btw, this is currently an azureus only thing -- you won't learn of any non-az clients this way.
I doubt it. Look at Battlestar Gallactice, which was downloaded left/right/up and down around the globe. It still managed to get renewed.
Nah, I think it's because Enterprise didn't know what direction it was going.
The python runtime is pretty small and is loaded instantly. Java takes forever to get going, and gobbles up considerably more memory. Don't forget the original BT client was actually written in python.
I really don't understand people like you. What difference does it make whether someone reimplements something in another language? It takes nothing away from you.
Seems to me that the most obvious way to decentralise bittorrent would be to just have a separate gnutella network solely for .torrent files, along with a hack in the client that automatically runs bittorrent on the downloaded files.
Gnutella has progressed over the years, and is the fastest P2P app I know for small files. It would handle searching etc. too, and if you've tried a client like gtk-gnutella, you know that high-quality filtering is no problem.
No we don't. This (java) version works perfectly already. Why does this _need_ to be ported?
Erm... because you can't run it in the background over SSH session on another server through 56kbit link? Or just choose any other reason...
Exactly how long does this decentralized system take to recognize that someone is no longer connected, don't want to talk and (especially) has perhaps handed the DHCP IP address to the next person? I think I'll give it another try, but if I get results like last night I'll either disable that feature or give Azureus the boot.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I think the amount of led shot off in WWII is more than has ever used for hunting. But, in the US most people use guns to hit targets or animals and not people.
As to target's I think more people shot at targets learning how to hit people than shoot at targets learning how to hit animals.
Seriously, if you want to know why Azureus is so damn cool, just click on the new "swarm" tab on a running torrent. Ye gods, but that's beauty! Perfectly abstract, instantly comprehensible, informative in realtime, mesmerizing as a screensaver. You have to respect the kind of people who'd think up something like that.
(Karma bonus turned off because this is OT, but damn, I just had to say that.)
I've just completed a Master's project on incorporating Reputation Management into BitTorrent. The idea is that if you give file slices first to people who are likely to stay connected and share, it will increase the overall bandwidth of the system and eventually increase everyone's performance. My simulation results show an average speedup of 5% for everyone in the network (good citizens get up to 15% speedup). I don't have a website, but if anyone wants to contact me about getting my research into the spec, I'd be happy to send you the paper.
clenfest@yahoo.com
Does anyone have a clue what this I2P techonology is and how the azureus plugin incorporates it into bittorrent. Thanks.