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Robots to Help the Blind
Timberwolf0122 writes "Computer scientists in the US have developed a robot that could help blind people to shop or find their way around large buildings.
Utilising a RFID tags to find products and a laser range finder to avoid obsticals. The prototype was developed at Utah State University, is this the end of guide dogs?"
Good grief what kind of retard came up with 'obsticals'?
Assuming that they don't change the stock locations in the store too often, why wouldn't it work?
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Robots are strong, and they steal old people's medicine which they need for fuel.
maybe this effort should be going towards that instead? How far away are artificial eyes that are good enough for a blind person to shop? And if they're good enough to shop, they are probably good enough for a lot of things that that shopping robot won't be good for.
The answer to this is no, because not all blind people want some impersonal robot. A dog is much nicer as it's alive and can make decisions in the external environment that a robot cannot make.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
...the robots must stop and dispense oil on a fire hydrant every hour or so.
I have a cousin who is blind and uses a guide dog. A few weeks ago, his dog essentially mauled some burgler attempting a home invasion.
Robots may be fine and dandy for lab rat use, but in the real world where unexpected things happen, you need to have something that can adapt to emergencies, something that robots won't be able to do for a while.
The robot will now proceed to help blind slashdot editors with their spellongzzzz
He's blind.
"People think we're trying to replace guide dogs, but we're not."
;)
Nope, not going to replace guide dogs. Dogs have excellent senses, robots just have bits & bytes.
""We refer to it as a robotic shopping assistant," he told the BBC News website.
The guide dog won't keep hanging out by the auto parts section. who knows what the robot will do. Maybe subscribe itself to Popular Mechanics when you're not paying attention.
Yes, I predict a massive die-off
It's obstacles! ... idiot.
"Obsticals"? Maybe that's how robots spell it.
No. As someone who was part of a team that worked on building autonomous robots (albeit for the I.G.V.C), I must say that, in my experience, the one thing that cannot be replaced (at least, not yet anyways) is instinct. (Neural Networking or no.) The dog offers companionship and thus a bond, which plays well with the dog's instincts in not just leading the person around and fetching things for them, but protecting them as well.
If people are concerned with replacing guide dogs (as they have relatively short lives and take a long time to train), they should consider guide horses. You may think I am crazy, but this has been successfully tested and is becoming more popular.
The horses live to be 25-40 years old, have binocular and monocular vision, and are very intelligent. They also have more instincts about safety than an algorithm, to date, can provide.
However, the robots are a very neat idea.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
"We are Linux. Resistance is measured in Ohms."
"We worked out some times when we weren't open and they tested the robot early in the morning."
Personally, I'd like it better if they were field tested in the afternoon, when the store is open, right about the time when work is getting off. However, A number of visually impaired testers have given enthusiastic feedback...*, so this is still good stuff.
*Rest of quote - but not all of them were Braille users so were unable to use the Braille interface to find items.
I can see it already... RFID tags put in waffle irons purposely labeled "braille book"...
Can we answer a question with a question? That being, "Do you have stairs in your house?"
....what about the guide horses?
Think about the horses!
Oh the humanity!
No, but it sure sounds like the end of blind people. What is it with AI people? They still can't produce software with the intelligence of a lab mouse, but they've moved on to guiding the blind? Last I checked, people still had trouble getting robots to navigate a building reliably.
We are here to protect you...
yes. I know, off topic. but makes you think...
I tied my vacuum cleaner to my dog. Will this replace the roomba?
I think it is just an ActivMedia Pioneer robot http://www.activrobots.com/ One of these was used for a robotics lab at my university. I didn't get to play with it much, but it contains a full blown PC with linux and an xterm on it.
The best way for robots to help blind people is to shove them.
When things get complex, multiply by the complex conjugate.
Sure, the dog can't pick out the right canned food on the shelf, but it can see a car coming from two blocks away, sense unstable ground, and pick up on unsavory people's body language in a second. I'm not blind, but walking with my dogs alerts me to things I'd never notice otherwise - they are truly amazing critters. I hope my eyes are good for the rest of my life, but hopefully we'll have direct visual cortex stimulation from implants or some other solution before I have to depend on a mobile robot to help me get around. In the meantime, it's Fido for me.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
So... now RFID is a good thing and we must allow it everywhere to help people with disabilities. And -of course- Invasion to privacy is just a harmless side effect. Handle with care... disclaimer: i haven't RTFA yet.
"is this the end of guide dogs?"
Not unless your willing to put an RFID tag in your butt so blind people can avoid you.
Will they be shover robots or pusher robots? Also, what if the blind people do not have stairs in their house? How will the robots protect them from the Terrible Secret of Space??? This obviously wasn't thought out very well...
... to beat out man's best friend.
They have to teach it to like peanut butter.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
And, of course, the original work that inspired that.
Obligitary comment: I for one welcome our new robot shopper overlords...
Physicist, consultant, science communicator
I thought at first that it said "Robots to Help Fix the Blind"
I LOL'd at the thought of some Short Circuit type robot saying "Number 5 will repair your eyeballz. Sit back and reeeelax" while his shaky uncontrollable limbs bounce about....yikes.
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
Guide dogs can often do more than merely guide a person while walking:
1) Can also be trained to fetch things like phones (very useful for when a blind person falls and hurts themselves and then cannot get up), keys, and miscellaneous items that a blind person accidentally drops and then need assistance in finding on the floor.
2) As another poster mentioned, a guide dog can provide a level of home defense against intruders. I once heard an author on NPR describe how a dog's primary sense is smell with eyes being second. This is why its so important (as far as the dog is concerned) to have its nose out the window when traveling in the car. Smells provide much more information. Any ways, imagine what goes through a dog's mind when he smells a stranger that is also giving off odors related to adrenaline/anxiety. The dog is going to go into a state of extreme alertness and defensiveness and will try to let everyone in the house know about what its discovered irrespective of whether it was trained to be a guard dog or not.
3) Dogs can alert you/wake you in cases of emergencies such as fires.
4) Dogs have amazing senses of smell and its believed they can smell hormonal changes and odors related to anxiety and stress and such, can tell when there is something "wrong" with their master.
I suppose it won't detect those kinds of obstacles until it's too late. Dogs will at least run to save themselves, dragging their blind owner with them.
It even has an LCD display. I'm sure that'll come in handy.
...or rather, I hope, there aren't many teachers on Slashdot: "obsticals". How many spelling errors do you have on your resume?
The ability to spell is a sign of organizational skils. If you can't organize your thoughts for coding purposes, you're likely to become a member of an IS|IT department. But as the janior or keypunch operator.
Let's see here, should the blind allow robots to lead them around.?...Hmmm....let me think about that one. MMMmmm... No.
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
laser range finder to avoid obsticals
It couldn't really hurt the blind much, but us people who can still see might find it a bit annoying..... I can just see how a conversation might go:
Joe: Hey bob, how'd you go blind?
Bob: I was shopping at walmart when this blind guy walked around the aisle and flashed his laser range finder into my eyes. Now I'm blind too. The bastard.
Joe: So is that the same gizmo you're now wearing too?
Bob: Yep
Joe: Oww my eyes. you just blinded me you idiot.
...Not just for old people anymore.
Robot : The road is clear ahead, please walk
*Walking*
3
2
1
*CRUNCH*
Dogs have common sense, robots don't.
I like muppets.
Authority questions you. Return the favor.
Good to see developments that help the blind... but how many of them would really use this robot? For those who are interested and try it, can the robot justify the money that they would have to shell out? I have seen many robots, some which make way through the traffic on road, some which can park vehicles and some that play soccer... most of them performed well in ideal situations, but it would take a lot of time before these machines can practically be put to use... please correct me if I am wrong!
It's sad that the National Federation of the Blind, which believes it represents its constituents, thinks of guide dogs as a crutch and would love to replace them with impersonal, imperfect robots.
Compare the costs (money, effort, expertise) of purchasing and maintaining a guide robot versus a guide dog. Now compare the capabilities of each. Will the robot be self-healing, last a whole day on the equivalent of a bowl of chow, and adapt to changes in the daily routine?
More importantly, which would you want guiding you across a busy city intersection? The GPS guided robot or a dog that has a sense of self-preservation?
I am afraid.
A most overlooked advantage to owning a computer is if they foul up there's no law against wacking them around a bit.
Robo Puppy commencing 2 hour yipping session!
Great! Now all we need is an evil guy that hacks into these and turns a great army of blind people on us. Tell me it can't happen, please, do.
Al Gore gets award for lifetime contributions to the Internet.
No, he didn't claim to invent it. Technically, he claimed that he "took the initiative in creating the Internet".
"We refer to it as a robotic shopping assistant," he told the BBC News website.
so like is it going to come with Gator installed?
Fancy robots are expensive to develop at first but once mass production starts this could be a great alternative to dogs... Considering what it costs to train a dog and the "carrying costs" associated with keeping one...
All the torrents you could want.
We are all disabled until we become a cyberthalamus (an engineered version of the thalamus, which hosts sentience). We'll take our last breath, and not die. We will become the robot that is helping the so-called "disabled".
Transcend Humanity. Please.
Simple answer is no as posted above. But there might be a market for people with sight to have one of these robots acting as shopping servant.
Non, je ne veux pas coucher avec toi ce soir.
Why don't they focus their technology on making BETTER bionic eyes for the blind, as previously reported here on Slashdot?
Why not just let natural selection fucking take over.
It does not matter if you are white or black, able-bodied or disabled, every American has a right to shop, and if there is any impediment to this right our brilliant scientists will work non-stop to remove it.
Is this the end of large dogs? Well, not really, dogs can be trained to be much more reliable impulse byuers than a robot.
Yes dogs have a short lifespan, but while there are downsides (increased training costs is the one you've mentioned but there are others), there's also positives. New dogs can be trained in newer techniques, with increase in numbers being trained the training cost per animal goes down, and the blind person knows that he/she has a limited time with their animal, so when the animal does die it's less of a shock to the system and they're less likely to become so depressed they're suicidal.
By the way I do know what it's like to lose a dog you're attached to emmotionally (though obviously not one I'm dependant on).
Now you bring up guide horses. I think that's really really impractical for most blind people. For one most people who live in the city will find it hard to house and feed the animal. Also think about public transport. I've seen guide dogs on trains but can't imagine guide horses. Another point to consider is that the guide horse can't live at the foot of your bed. Houses aren't designed for an animal that large to live in. I think it would be difficult even for minature breeds to overcome these problems.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
--- The Shover Robot
The original involved monkeys.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
But what's he's getting at is that it's from Utah State University! That's why it will replace guide dogs.
...hmm.
OMG! Wau!
"Sir, you can't bring that bot in here" "He's my guide bot" "Beep" The days of sober Benders are getting closer, aren't they? I guess maybe my dreams will come true: Gouging my eyes out and being led around by a seeing-eye bot. Oddness prevails...
A blind man walks into a store, grabs his guide dog by the tail, and starts swinging him around in circles.
The clerk runs up. "Sir, can I help you?"
"Naaa. I'm just looking around."
Jokes just won't be as funny with robots.
Utilising a RFID tags to find products and a laser range finder to avoid obsticals.
And if you install Ispell and Grammatik, it will also improve their visually disturbing spelling and their jarringly horrendous grammar.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
What ever happened to the shop clerk? Robots? Dogs? Why not someone you can actually talk to?
Robots help the blind!
Robots help the blind!
They sometimes like to kill and maim!
But they are often kind!
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/robots.php
No.
I can say that since I RTFA:
"People think we're trying to replace guide dogs, but we're not."
Pusher Robot will protect you.
Shover Robot will protect you.
From the Terrible Secret Of Space
I dont do meaning of life questions.
...just pathetic.
... please, let her know that at least one Australian guy had a good belly-laugh when they read it. Kudos to your dotty and slightly scary friend!
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
The friendly neighbourhood store will be more than inconvenienced to see a well intentioned guide horse walking right in. Talk about shelf space or the lack of it thereof. An easily startled guide horse ... well talk about collateral damange!!
Sample instructions:
1. Please keep your horses away from the grocery section
2. Keep your supermarket clean. Poop bags available for all horse owners.
Phew ... imagine the look on the martians faces when they land on this planet
than laser-guided robots
3CPO: R2, look a blind lady crossing the road!
R2D2: Beep squeak squeak beep squawk
3CPO: R2! Really! That is such a nasty idea!
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What will happen to all of the out of work dogs? There goes the market for my new product as well.
How'd that Commodore 5 1/4" floppy disk drive get in there? I guess anything can happen after two eight balls.
...a comment criticizing a spelling error is modded as "troll"...
Isn't that an insensitive way to start a comment on a story about the blind?
.. apparently dont include being able to spell and/or use dictionary.com, or ispell.
-=-
def:obstical
No entry found for obstical.
Did you mean obstacle?
-=-
def:obstacle
obstacle
One that opposes, stands in the way of, or holds up progress.
I think I've heard of this robot somewhere before.
and should make available such information as nutritional information and EXPIRATION DATE. Hell, I can read the packaging and sometimes can't find the pack or expiration date. For example it may be printed in red ink on rust background.
It's gonna be tough to beat a dog for tasks such as crossing the street or keeping the pesky, panhandling, "i don't mean you no harm", hobos at bay.
If you follow your parent post's link, you'll see these are tiny little horses. They aren't significantly larger than a St. Bernard.
The main problem with them is that, as herbivores, they leave much larger droppings than an equivalently sized dog.
Anyone else think this will end up like some sort of horrific cross between "I, Robot" and "Conquest of the Planet of the Apes?" If so, then I for one welcome our (yadda yadda yadda)...
"Was it a millionaire who said 'Imagine No Posessions?'" -- Elvis Costello
The prototype was developed at Utah State University, is this the end of guide dogs?
hhhhhhhmmmmmm... NOPE
Those obsticals can be deadly to a blind person - even non-blind people can be hurt very much by a rabid obstical. It's so terrible for a family if their insurance doesn't cover obstical attacks.
ruff ruff RUFF RUFF RUFF!
Having to work for a living is the root of all evil.
and a laser range finder to avoid obsticals.
Can it also be used to scan for typos?
$8.95/mo web hosting
I've read several articles about the Japanese designing robots for disabled people too. More have been about nurses for the elderly in a land where there are many old people and too few young who would do this menial work. Besides Japan seems to have a strong popular culture of robots too in entertainment and acceptibility.
My wife is blind and uses a dog. Seeing Eye Dogs do not, as some believe, lead the blind person to where they want to go. The blind must still know where they want to go and how to get there.
The dog simply helps them to avoid things like curbs, stairs and so on. It does so by simply stoping at them and waiting for the blind person to give them instructions as to what to do next.
It is perfetly possible to get lost with a dog.
We have seen all sorts devices of this type all the time canes with sonar, devices with GPS, you name it. The fact remains that nothing will ever subsitute for proper mobility training for the blind.
No, I'm not retarded. Did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning? I was merely pointing out robots (no matter how cool) will be everyone's cup of tea.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
It could be used to find the neighbors house--some sort of interaction. But a few million $ in research goes to find the Jiffy Puffed Marchmallows.
Where is the altruism? Where is the pathos? Where is the poetry?
I'd prefer a Mini guide horse--but make sure his poop-bucket has braille for easy changing.
>>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
"Scientists have successfully replicated two cells in a petri dish. Does this spell the end for human birthing practices???"
"What kind of music do pirates listen to?" -Paul Maud'dib
"Yeeeaaarrrrr n' Bee!!" -Stilgar, Leader of Sietch Tabr
...after a while it stops near stairways and tries to leads it's owner to the top floor repeating over and over: "Please stand by the stairs so I can protect you."
Will they be helping people down the stairs?
Oops.. I didnt mean to let out that little secret.
What is slashdot coming to?!
--Rob
Towards the Singularity.
"People think we're trying to replace guide dogs, but we're not."
The idea is that you simply come to the grocery store, grab the shopping assistant and it leads you to the different products. When you leave the store you leave it behind.
They didn't say anything in there about replacing a dog, it just is to help where dogs can't. It knows where things in the store are.
My daughter is blind because she had a stroke before she was born. Her eyes are perfect, but she cannot see.
Although I think a shopping robot is silly, it would still make this task much easier for my daughter when she is older and wants to be independent.
-- Len
Repetitive learned behaviors? Sounds like cerebellum. How about, the thalamus has all sensory information routed to it (except smell).
Transcend Humanity. Please.
Borrow from the latest military hardware and mount a 9mm on the robot. Code the firmware to detect intruders, give them a warning and detect hostility, and mow them down if hostility is detected after the warning has begun being given... :)
(No, I'm not serious. I've played Deus Ex and DX: Invisible War too much to think this is a good idea...)
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?