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Xbox 360 Gets Backwards Compatible, Final Fantasy
databeam writes "The official Xbox 360 press conference was Monday evening, and an AP article has news that the 360 is backwards compatible, and that Square Enix will be releasing Final Fantasy XI for the console." Coverage also available at Gamespot. From the article: "Along with a firm release date and price point, the other big question surrounding the 360 was backward compatibility with the library of games from the original Xbox. Robbie Bach, senior vice president and chief Xbox officer in the Home and Entertainment Division at Microsoft, made Xbox fans around the world happy when he announced that the 360 will indeed play Xbox games." Mostly. Gamasutra points out that backwards compatibility will be selective, with most but not all of the top selling games supported. Kotaku and the Guardian Gamesblog have firsthand accounts from the event, and to watch the conference for yourself Xbox.com has the footage. Update: 05/18 20:49 GMT by Z : Of course, not all the people there were people, if you catch my meaning.
... now that both of the 2 fully announced consoles have their predecessors games to back them up, I feel it's actually a fair competition on which console has the games that people want.
Let the commencement BEGINULATE!
Who really cares if it's backward compatable? If you have old games play them on the old system. Besides how many old games do most people play now anyway? Once you've beat Jade Empire or moved from FIFA 2003 to FIFA 2006 going back isn't usually a lot of fun. Maybe in 10 years or so.
Since they can't change the game, I wonder if they'll do this by working over some of the code that the ships in the Xbox360. They do something like that in Windows.
more of the same on Twitter.
Backwards compatability will be selective? Does this mean that they will be emulating the xbox hardware? Thats pretty amazing if it works, but I have my doubts that it will even run as smooth as the current xbox. Hopefully this means a much faster virtualpc, so I can play pc games on my mac.
I don't know which is bigger news, the backwards compatability or the fact that MSFT was able to get Square to bring the FF series to the 360!
Excellent news on all counts.
It seems odd to me that they would/could make the new system backward compatible for some but not all games. I'm clearly not very well informed, but I would be pleased if someone who is fairly well informed would explain to me how this works. Do the old games run in an emulator-style environment? If so, how hard would it really be to emulate a few more instructions?
Don't get me wrong. As long as it plays Halo, I'll be happy. I'm just curious.
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Now we know why Microsoft bought the company that made the best x86 emulator for PowerPC on the market. Actually, we might have guessed that earlier - nice to have it confirmed though.
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From TFA:
Microsoft Corp. said on Monday its new Xbox 360 will run video games developed for the earlier generation of its gaming machine
This doesn't state backwards compatibility. It could just mean that older games will be ported to the 360.
Bach said that it won't necessarily run all of the older Xbox titles but instead, run the "top-selling" games.
Uh huh. This sounds very much like ports to me. This sounds very much like Sony's PSP running old PS1 games.
Now, where do I get the modchip?
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I never had a PS1 prior to owning my PS2, so for me it was like getting two systems in one. Also, I think the price will drop on a lot of the 'older' XBox games that are stil highly playable and fun. Parents especially will have the choice of dropping 50-60 bucks on a new Xbox 360 game or getting 2 or 3 'classic' Xbox games for the same price.
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This is a crazy idea I've had in my head lately. Would it be possible to build a gaming console that runs XboX 1, PS 1, PS 2, Gamecube, and even PC games? I know it sounds crazy, but listen.
Projects like Wine, PearPC, MAME, etc. show that it is possible to re-implement someone else's software or even hardware API. If you emulate a different hardware architecture, you take a performance hit obviously. This makes it impracticle to emulate the latest gaming consoles (like the 360 or PS3 of course). However, would it not be possible to create emulators for older gaming consoles?
So the idea is that some company sells a small dedicated computer (with good graphics card, etc.) that runs some emulation software (probably based on linux, using things like wine as a starting point to at least enable running of PC games). The unit cannot run any modern games, but it can run basically *ALL* of the older games, from any console. I think there would be a market for this.
The obvious problem is legality. Reverse engineering is permitted to a certain extent, and re-creating someone else's API is allowed. Notice that I haven't talked about copying other vendor's games onto a hard-drive. You put in your officially purchased copy (on CD or DVD) of a game into this new uber-console's CD/DVD drive, and you play it. You bought the game, after all. Is that allowed? Are there any laws I'm not aware of? Does the EULA of a PS2 game say that you are only allowed to play it on approved hardware platforms?
I guess the real answer is that no company would ever attempt such a thing, since the big players in the market would all be aligned against them, and they would be crushed in a legal nightmare. This just means that we'll have to wait a bit longer for the homebrew solution I guess.
Somehow, I doubt that my old modchip is gonna work in the new xbox.
Backward compatable my ass!
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that this is a kneejerk announcement by Microsoft in response to the PS3.
There's probably lots of Microsoft engineers now trying to figure out how to hack backwards compatability into an almost-finished product, after a 'just make it happen but don't change the deadline' directive from the boss yesterday.
Like all projects with that mandate, quality is the first to go. To the end user, that means many old games will probably not work well, if at all.
PS3's backwards compatibility is simple: In addition to the Nvidia-driven gfx and hardware of the PS3, it has the PS2 emotion engine circuitry built-in. And since the PS2 had the PS1's circuitry built-in, you get 2 generations of backwards compatibility.
Xbox is more or less a P3+Geforce4 design. Somehow I don't see it being feasible for Microsoft to miniaturize the xbox logic and slap it onto the Xbox360 motherboard. Xbox360 will probably require a xbox-live download for emulation instructions that allow it to play whatever selected Xbox game you want to run.
Nintendo revolution's backwards compatibility is relatively simple as well: From all accounts, its architecture is an extension of the gamecube's architecture: GC had a custom IBM Power chip called "flipper", and a simple yet powerful gfx solution by ArtX (later acquired by Ati) that uses embedded 1T-SRAM. Revolution is supposed to have an IBM Power-based cpu and an Ati gfx solution that, surprise surprise, uses embedded gfx memory as well. I'm betting the new hardware's just a superset of the old.
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For the backward compatibility, does the Xbox 360 have an x86 processor in addition to the PowerPC? Or does it emulate the x86?
Most European friends say meh to XBOX 360 apparently.
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I remember the backwards compatabilty/Final Fantasy argument being the mantra of just about every ps2 or nintendo fanboy. I'm sure this has something to do with the influx of game designers who have been getting snatched up by microsoft in recent months. Now if RockStar games moves, or even offers on both consoles, that would be a death blow.
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Actually, with the amount of power these new consoles sport, they could easily have their predecessors, as well as their Competitor's predecessors games to back them up.
Both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 have more than enough horsepower to emulate not only their own previous consoles, but also each others previous consoles. the only thing that would stop them would be licencing issues, and the PS3 would have the edge since Nvidia is their partner and they designed half of the previous Xbox, which was based on a standard X86 PC to begin with. The only thing that would stop them is the Bios and the Xbox OS.
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Remember, Live is now part of the system package, available to everyone for free. My guess is that backwards compatibility will require the hard-drive add-on as well as a Live connection. This will allow Microsoft to "patch" the game, allowing it to run on a 360.
Think of it as a pseudo-port of top-selling XBox games.
Gamecube was a distant 3rd in the console scene
*yawn* Baseless assertions bore me. The Gamecube did about as well at the XBox in the US, and completely destroyed it in Japan. If you add that up, it makes the Gamecube much more potent than the XBox, in terms of sales. If you mean hype/PR, then maybe the Gamecube lags, but Nintendo's press conference isn't till today, anyway.
Emulation is never really that "easy". Unless the X-box and ps3's graphic controller is compatable, I kinda doubt it would be possible. And how on earth are you goin to split up X86 instruction code so that it can run on seperate parts of the cell processor?
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Although I don't have the figures to hand, I'm pretty sure that Nintendo were a close third place with Sony in 1st and M$ only just second. Also, it's also worth pointing out that of the three, Nintendo is the only one who also makes money selling the consoles. For both Sony and M$ the console is a loss leader.
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Because the corporations that produce the games really aren't into re-writing a game for nothing to satisfy a few people who will use the backwards compatibility.
You still want to run all xbox games? keep an xbox, hey they'll be going dirt cheap anyway soon. Much like ps1's are now, I found it cheaper to buy a ps1 second hand with 9 memory cards rather than buy a memory card to replay ff7.
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Why would you go to the trouble of emulating a x86 game on a PowerPC (then testing to see if it is playable), the games companies won't have lost thier source, can't they just recombile for for the PowerPC. As long as M$ has put some backwards compatablity in the APIs.
THey could just download the new code via XBox Live when you inserted an old CD (still reading the media content from the CD).
This way they could market the XBox 360 as plaing version 1 games "Better then the original!", given people a reason to upgrade before they even have a decent games libary for the new system.
I wouldn't exactly call FFXI a hot-ticket item. The game has been in decline for a bit now. This just sounds like S-E trying to expand their user base to the XBox fanboys who dropped the PS2 when XBox came out.
Future collaborations sounds vague at best. Although the rumor mill has been saying that the exclusive contract with Sony is almost up (I never knew one was ever in existance or with a time limit), and Square-Enix has been branching out over the past few years.
S-E will ultimately go wherever they think they can perform the best. Which is why they left Nintendo (cartridge would severely limit their options) and if MS is truly poised to dominate the market, then seeing them switch to XBox360 is a no-brainer. Also, they seem to be following Sakaguchi's coat-tails with Mist Walker announcing its two RPGS for XBox360.
Finally, this could be a good move for MS with the 360, since the original Xbox didn't have a large library of RPGs, which is something the PS2 had an abundance of.
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It greatly helps during initial console launch/soon after, when the library of new games isn't there yet. And I play quite a lot PS1 games still (new ones - for me at least)
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hince incompatible with lightgun and STEEL BATTALION. This may just be a "CYA" type "selective compatibility" since all the games work with the wireless controller.
just my $0.02
With "some, but not all" games being supported for backwards compatibility, there's no reason to believe that *any* games will work as originally intended. You can't call it backwards compatible if... well, it's not backwards compatible.
I can just see it already. Microsoft will heavily promote the XBox 360 as being "Backwards Compatible**"
** But not really. Actually, only Halo2 is compatible. Everything else is subject to this nice little disclaimer here.
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for the PS2, the entire PS1 circuitry was located away from the emotion engine, and tucked away in the peripheral IO processor.
Nice of you to show up with an article to an actual important presentation, then water it down with the "nay saying" comments of blogs. "The Xbox Suxors! news on eleven"
I mean the second comment (blog) started: "(actual comment) Im going to give out the win to PS3 because their graphics were a lot cooler. (/actual comment)"
Point 1: Sure thing bub! I mean why dont you just skip that theres going to be xbox live for FREE in each 360? that you'll have a cool IM system, with some tivo like features mentioned? or that you could even design and sell stuff for games online? (not buy, SELL even I can see a benefit there!) I mean those are totally not worth talking about features right?
point 2: this is slashdot land of the "gameplay first, graphics second! damn it!" motto, and now it turns out we are completely signing out a console because the other flashed some pretty graphics at us? nice bias there bub!
I admit some games shown had lesser graphics (in some cases not, I mean check out gears of war!) but they were all ONLINE capable. In ghost recon 3 each window that pop out was an online partner trying to tell you something or showing you a location in a map, doesnt that add a lot to strategic gameplay?
Is a bit too early to cast out an opinion on this, at least an intelligent, unbiased opinion that is.
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Do a little research before making baseless accusations of baseless assertions.
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From the numbers I've seen in NPD, the Xbox has about 2x more total units sold in the US than the GC. It has roughly half the installed units as the PS2.
I didnt have the old information on hand, but some web searching pulled up the information.
NPD sales numbers for January 2005
PS2 - 488,000
Xbox - 241,000
Gamecube - 114,000
NPD sales numbers for February 2005
PS2 - 533,000
Xbox - 212,000
GCN - 116,000
NPD sales numbers for March 2005 (through April 2nd)
PSP 620,000
PS2 495,000
XBX 227,000
GC 94,000
NPD sales numbers for April 2005
PSP = 351,000
PS2 = 332,000
Xbox = 153,000
GCN = 63,000
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3 G5 procs (PPC) and a 733Mhz Celeron (X86) in such a tiny case? That's one heck of a kludge, and then you'd have to deal with two kernels. In the case of the PS2, the PS1 chip actually handles some IO functions, so it's not just sitting around.
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Obviously a version of MS's newly-acquired VirtualPC will be used to handle the CPU emulation, and the DirectX layer will cope with redirecting most of the the gfx calls smoothly enough. The tricky part is the patented nVidia shader code used in Xbox games.
The only answer that make sense is that the emulator will intercept the nVidia shader code, match it against a database & replace it with a prewritten equivalent DXSL shader (as gfx drivers often do today, for better performance).
Nicely sidesteps the patent issues, it's efficient, relatively easy, and can be upgraded via Live updates too, for further compatibility down the road.
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Actually, worldwide sales indicate xbox is in 2nd place and gamecube is in third. Not exactly a distant 3rd, but 3rd nonetheless. Worldwide Hardware Sales (End of 2004) PlayStation 2 - 81.39 million Xbox - 19.9 million GameCube - 18.03 million Game Boy Advance - 65.74 million Nintendo DS - 2.84 million Sony PSP - 0.51 million N-Gage - 1.3 million PSone - 101.73 million North America PlayStation 2 - 32.86 million Xbox - 13.2 million GameCube - 10.11 million Japan / Asia PlayStation 2 - 19.47 million Xbox - 1.7 million GameCube - 3.78 million Europe / PAL PlayStation 2 - 29.06 million Xbox - 5.0 million GameCube - 4.13 million Worldwide PlayStation 2 - 81.39 million Xbox - 19.9 million GameCube - 18.03 million All Three Consoles North America - 56.17 million (47.08%) Japan / Asia - 24.95 million (20.91%) Europe / PAL - 38.19 million (32.01%) Worldwide - 119.32 million source:http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php ?tid=8498&page=2