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Dvorak on the LinuxWorld Fracas
An anonymous reader writes "John C. Dvorak has entered the fray, offering his opinion on the O'Gara LinuxWorld flap. From the article: '...the Linux community is slowly evolving into a state of mob rule, with the cheerleaders being paranoid crackpot leftovers from the waning days of Amiga.' "
If you ask me, Dvorak is the paranoid crackpot leftover from the waning days of the Amiga. Every community has its lunatics, just watch some Jerry Springer, your local city hall meetings or sit on the city sidewalk on a Friday night. For the Linux or Amiga community to have them is a sign of balance. Its the media that ends up giving them the light that stereotypes the whole community.
What the Linux community needs right now is a good leader. Someone to make everyone realize that the community is the one that is in charge of the direction of things and help them to focus their efforts.
Okay, yeah, I think I see your point here, John:
We should be more understanding towards useless "journalism" and media flamebaiting, because without those practices you might actually have to come up with something insightful or worthwhile every week to fill out your column and earn page hits. Hey, I can see where you're coming from -- that'd take legwork, insight and generally staying on top of the industry. I imagine that's hard work, and trust me: I'm right there with you on the "I don't like hard work" page.
BTW, congrats on getting your flamebait article on the front page of Slashdot. It's good to know that *some* "journalists" are still able to use (a) and (b) successfully to drum up (c). It's gotta be a good feeling to walk into your boss's office at review time and wave around yet another spike in ad impressions courtesy of the Slashdot crowd -- I hope you're appreciative enough to include Zonk on your Christmas card list!
Anyhow, hope preparing your standard self-righteous indignation column for when (d) inevitably rolls around is going well. Aw, who am I kidding, I know you're an old pro -- I'm sure you were already writing that one when you handed in this last article to your editor.
A little trolling, and two columns done and in the bank. Must be a nice life.
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
...than a toadying suck-up to vendors.
DaGoodBoy
My God! It's full of Voids!
Here's the deal John:
1. There were many reasonable people offended by O'Gara and her attempts to intimidate Jones. And that's what you have to call it, because if you're trying to find out if someone's a stooge for IBM (Dvorak suggests this is all O'Gara was trying to do), you're not making your case by publishing the address of their mother.
2. Calling for a journalist to be disciplined, up and including being fired, for a clearly inaccurate and evil piece of journalism is not, in any way, "nutty" or indicative of "mob rule". To lump those who have done so with those on the fringes making death threats is to lump all christians with anti-abortionist murderers of doctors, or all muslims concerned about the US presence in the Middle East with Osama Bin Laden.
It's really that simple. Something did something clearly wrong to many of us, so many of us publicly expressed our disappointment. Some did so angrily, some didn't.
It's the height of paranoid fanaticism (and yes, I use the word paranoid quite justifiably):
to lump together a diverse group of people with differing opinions and charge them with some conspiracy to attack you.That's assuming you're not trolling for webpage hits. I assume the editors were by posting this article.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
So Dvorak has seen another chance to jump in the lime light and play the under-dog
and stir up some controversy by calling all of us who called for O'gara to be fired "lunatics" (not just those who issued death threats , who are quite likely a bit mad)
Don't buy into this , he is just trying to kick up his readership .
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
Dvorak is on crack if he thinks that there are any businesses that are going to give a shit about the MoG/PJ flap. Businesses adopting Linux and other FOSS products are looking to reduce TCO and also trying to make sure that they don't end up being 0wnz0r3d by Microsoft into perpetuity by having their corporate data locked into proprietary file formats that change from release to release and by being locked into licensing schemes that become ever more onerous and increasingly expensive as time goes on. The antics of the various players in the MoG/PJ flap are going to have about as much impact on the adoption of Linux and FOSS as Steve Ballmer's video, the one where he jumped up and down like a chimp, had on the adoption of Windows XP.
cheap labor conservatives - they want to keep you hungry enough to be thankful for minimum wage.
Well, he lives by his own words doesn't he? He drums up an article or two on controversial subjects, gets them posted on Slashdot and his column gets more hits than the rest of the articles combined (stages scenario, I don't know the exact figures off course).
The problem is that the Slashdot editors also seem to love the controversy a Dvorak article is sure to bring in, having someone to bash is just good for business I guess.
that on the one hand he says that the linux community needs to grow up and denounce and eject extremists and fanatics, and on the other hand, criticises them for doing just that with OGara
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
I also believe that O'Gara was merely being controversial.
Publishing someones phone number and address, and even their mother's address, goes way beyond being controversial. It's a privacy violation.
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Tue May 17 18:46:19 CEST 2005 [3167]
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Tue May 17 18:46:48 CEST 2005 [998]
I think that that point was lost on Dvorak. Whether or not O'Gara is a paid shill or not is beside the point- what she did was not, and should not be considered by Sys-Con, to be appropriate.
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
From the article:
Oh, brother. In the olden days, O'Gara would have been given a medal for generating readership. But in today's world of the so easily offended, she's apparently let go instead, and things calm down as the hissy fit subsides.
This is the key, right here. It's actually slightly shocking that he let himself shine through so clearly in this paragraph. Dvorak is actually just upset because, y'know, that's his schtick. Generating readership by making inflammatory and offensive articles? That's pure Dvorak. It strikes fear into his black little heart to see someone get fired for doing exactly what he does, so he lashes out at it.
Who needs to be right when you can be controversial?
Random and weird software I've written.
And there's only one thing wrong with that logic.
It's complete bollocks.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
Dvorak states that 'Crazed Lunatics' are something that normal people simply don't want to associate with and that if Linux becomes associated as the OS of the 'Criminally Insane', the OS will be dropped by regular people. That's absolutely not true.
What has crazed fanatic lunatics done to set back religious groups?
Absolutely nothing.
There's still plenty of Christians, Jews and Muslims running around, even though each of those major world religions has more then a few criminally insane followers counted amongst their faithful.
Now, I am not saying that Operating Systems are like religions. They aren't. What I am saying is that people will go with what works for them, regardless of how many kooks are associated with it.
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?
Funny thing, I've been using linux since SLS, I use it every day, I stay in tune with what's going on within the Linux world (or at least I like to think so) and I had no idea what Linuxworld was or who maureen o'gara is until this thing blew up. From what I gather, she's just a tool like Dvorak who still doesn't "Get" the 21st century and the changes in media. There is a huge difference between the readers of some little linux web magazine and the community at large. It sounds and looks to me like they can't distinguish the difference because they are so clearly not part of the greater community; they get flamed by some vocal folks and think that reflects the way things are.
I'll also throw this salvo out there. I like groklaw, I like what it's doing and trying to do. I also think PJ needs to reveal some things about herself, if you want to be a cultural and media figure you have to deal with it. If you want to be an anonymous person, then I'd suggest not running a big popular web site and trying to get in the middle of it all. I don't think what happened is right but PJ needs to build her credibility, I can't consider it news or bias free if I don't know who the messenger is. The whole thing sucks but I've been toning down my reading of groklaw simply because I don't know who is behind it. She should consider this an important lesson, release the information the way you want it released and maintain and control your privacy or have someone dig it up and lose control of it. There are plenty of "celebrities" that can manage that and keep their privacy.
There is such a thing as journalistic integrity. Apparently Dvorak doesn't believe in it, but most people do. When a reporter doesn't stand up for doing the right thing people get mad. Then heads have to roll. You can ask a number of people who used to work for CBS news until they faked a report on Bush's service just before the last election.
Come to think of it, yesterday NewsWeek was forced to retract a story, because they didn't check the facts sufficiently. I wouldn't be surprised if someone resigns at NewsWeek of the issue.
The Linux community did nothing unexpected when you consider the facts. Some reporter did something unethical, and the community forced his/her bosses to fire him/her. It has happened before, it will happen again. The only thing that has really changed is that today someone who discovers media abuse has an easier time letting people know.
I also believe that O'Gara was merely being controversial.
MoG has had a hate-on for IBM since the days of the antitrust trial. If she has a chance to slam IBM, she takes it.
She sees PJ defending IBM, and so she goes after PJ. I think Darl & Co. played on her hatred of IBM, but she allowed them to, and she got what she deserved.
It was more than just being "controversial" - MoG wanted to hurt IBM by hurting PJ.
What amazes me is that O'Gara was literally stalking PJ and published personal information about her on the web and this bozo thinks open source people are dangerous.
evil is as evil does
He got one thing right...
First let's get a few things straight. All of O'Gara's assertions are nutty.
Some of them go way beyond nutty. Dvorak acknowledges that O'Gara tracked down and photographed PJ's home and PJ's mother's home and posted pics in her column
But rather than point out the problem with this type of "journalism", he praises it.
Oh, brother. In the olden days, O'Gara would have been given a medal for generating readership. But in today's world of the so easily offended, she's apparently let go instead, and things calm down as the hissy fit subsides.
Right, thank god we have PC Magazine to sustain the flame of responsible journalism. What an asshole.
In recent years, he has become a professional internet Troll. He knows that he can get a lot of page views by saying things to inflame passionate groups (Mac users, OpenSource advocated, etc.) and he does so at every opportunity.
My advice for you is the same as with any other Troll: Do Not Feed.
My Photography - http://ian-x.com
The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
Why do people confuse articles with editorials? He's not reporting news, he's voicing his opinion.
Windows over Linux == trolling.
Linux over Windows == advocacy.
Right?
We need a leader to tell everyone we don't need a leader?
No, we don't. Why bother putting the weight of a world-wide movement onto one individual, when the thing is doing fine on its own?
I'm reminded of a story from the Book of Judges (in the Bible). Israel had been more-or-less confined to the hill country by the Philistines because they kept failing to listen to their judges, who were sort of like Linus, ESR, RMS, et al. It was a meritocracy of sorts. Israel clamored for a king, though, so they could be like the other nations. Through Samuel, they were told the king would take away their freedoms and tax them for his own purposes, but they insisted. They ended up with King Saul, a megalomaniac of, er, biblical proportions.
sigs, as if you care.
I believe John is severely deluded.
First of all, PJ's articles have been very accurate.
MOG took a role in media sensationalism, inaccuracy, and FUD. When her articles descended into ad hominem attacks, people reacted.
People emailed SYS-CON advertisers.
Fuat Kircaali called up individuals emailing advertisers, and threatened to sue them.
Instead, the OSS community threatened a boycott of SYS-CON. We made our positions on anti-OSS publications well known.
I guess because I received an unfriendly phonecall from Fuat Kircaali threatening to sue me over my emails, that I am somehow one of these crackpots?
Instead, I will rebut with this:
John Dvorak is not fully acquainted with the overall tone of the MOG articles, and the SYS-CON support for her anti-OSS sensationalist agenda.
If threatening a boycott, is somehow construed as a death threat, John Dvorak should stop pointing fingers and instead enroll in english 101.
We still haven't seen any evidence of a DDOS. No logs, no IP addresses, no documentation.
We still have an unapologetic publisher (Fuat Kircaali)
We do have "media analysts" pontificating on subjects they appear to be thoroughly ignorant in.
I guess John Dvorak is following in the MOG tradition. Will he be syndicated by SYS-CON next?
I have to agree with Dvorak on this one. I have been saying this for months on Slashdot and usually get modded to troll or flamebait for it. The fanatic members of the linux community are going to bring it to it's knees. I am an IT professional who has made a living in this fashion for 20 years. Yea, that's a long time for IT. I don't flaunt it, because it actually means nothing. I do however know that to be successful, you HAVE TO be able to weight the pros and cons objectively on every software/hardware decision that is made. Quite frankly, those decisions end up being an MS product much of the time. I am not saying MS's products are great, heck I am not even saying that they work decently sometimes, but it is necessary in many cases, due to the constraints of the software, the job/project needs and so on. It's a fact of life right now, It's not a Linux world out there,... yet.
With all of that said, I cannot survive in the industry, if I am viewed as belonging to a group of fanatical left wing blow hards who absolutely refuse to look at the pros of anything that competes with their prize product. It would shut the door for me as professional. I have also long stated that the fanatical representations of Linux and the over-bashing of MS shed a poor light on the community and cause outsiders to shy away. Very few people wish to be associated with a group that refuses to acknowledge that any choice but theirs is a ticket to damnation (accept maybe in the case of the factional Christian faith denominations). If Dvorak is stating this, should it not be clear to everyone that there are a fair number of ot Iher important people who also have this perception? I am not saying it is right, but we HAVE TO do something to correct it, or we all are going to painted in the same light. That is not what Linux is and it is not what it's future could be. If the perception rules over the facts, as Dvorak said, the trash heap of history is where this (linux) is - headed.
Don't bother with RTFA. The article is a complete troll. I feel had for having read it. The gist of the article is, "So two women got in an online argument. What's the big deal?" Dvorak conveniently ignores the central issue behind the uproar - the publishing of PJ and her mother's addresses, complete with photos and (practically) driving directions. He replies to several messages in the forum, but never to one covering this most central of points. So either:
A) Dvorak thinks this is within the bounds of ethical journalism, or
B) His articles weren't getting much attention lately, and he knew which buttons to push.
I vote for (B).
"Anyone that has ever gotten an idea based on any of my work and done something better with it-good for you."--J.Carmack
In today's world of the so easily offended you sure look like one too, John. Otherwise I fail to see what this troll is all about. Are you protecting bad journalism here?
You should remember who your clients are before talking that much. Do you really fail to see why the kind of visibility that O'Gara received and that you seem to admire so much is actually bad?
First of all I would like to know what kind of proof you have that any of this is real. You wrote that Groklaw's claim about O'Gara working for Sco are just words, yet you publish an article saying that the death threats existed, and that they come from this community.
Get your facts straight. The whole effort that you descrive as an act of violence from this community was just a ton of complaints to Sys-Con regarding O'Gara.
Reporters have the freedom to speak up their minds just as much as we do. You should never forget that it works both ways.
diegoT
After R'ing TFA's first page, I believe that Dvorak's signal-to-noise ratio is either negative or imaginary (like sqrt(-1)) at this point.. Hack city...
IMHO, the worst think that happened in the personal computer world was the appearance of a strong leader in the form of Bill Gates and Microsoft. MS corralled the PC industry and dominated it.
In the build up to the MS dominance was a great deal of talk about the need for a leviathan that would dominate and curtail the computer industry. We got what the pundits wished for.
What the computer industry needs is a framework that allows development on multiple fronts.
That people develop rivalries or have egoes is really not a problem. The communitarian belief is that we will have paradise when everyone has denied their ego. If no-one had egoes, then we would all be zombies. The existance of feud between two linux pundits really is not a problem. Nor is the fact that different businesses want to define their place in the market.
The fact that there's too many ideologues like me who want to bubble on about our ideologies is annoying, but not quite a category killer. Although it is a sign of problems in the linux community. Personally, I had a ton of ideas I wanted to develop. I've looked at open source as a way to bring some small new businesses into fruition, but really only see pitfalls and dead ends in linux development. Not being able to see a way to participate in open source software development that does not leave me destitute is a big problem.
It seems to me that the way for a business community to thrive there needs to be a way for the members of the community to invest their time and resources into the community, and receive returns for that investment. Historically, the best way to do that has been with the establishment of property rights.
The last thing open source needs is another leader. It needs a stronger business framework where people are making money and thriving.
What MOG did wasn't so bad. He's seen worse.She didn't violate any ethics. People are just too easily offended today.
There is such a thing as "moral outrage" and that is what is being expressed by people objecting to MOG's article.
But John doesn't understand that. John only sees page hits. And page hits are good.
No matter what, there's a difference between a posting of a hotheaded 14 year old on /. and a journalist's work (at least I still hope so)
You can't excuse e.g. the lying of a politician by pointing to the fact that some random person on some random website did it too
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
That is the way these "journalists" handle it.
Since we cannot see the actual email, he is free to describe it in any way he desires.
Given that he has already characterized the Linux community as "criminally insane" and "lunatics", you can be sure that he will be portraying the emails as from such individuals.
BUT you will also NOT see a SINGLE case of any email being forwarded to the cops/FBI for legal action regarding communicating a threat.
Not
a
single
one
.
Meanwhile, if it were you or I who received an emailed death threat, we would have the appropriate message and headers carried to the local authorities for investigation and possible arrest.
No arrests will be made.
No criminal cases will be opened.
No email will be sent to the authorities.
But much will be said in his articles about the tone of the threats he received for his unbiased and fact-filled article about Linux extremists.
Today is the 16th of May, 2005 and it is 11:25am Pacific time.
That is my prediction.
I'm posting anonymously for reasons that'll become blindingly obvious in about three sentences.
My employer asked me to do this. We are involved with a particular industry that is rampant with Old Fogeyism. As I tend to rant anyhow, I posted a rant on a highly visible mailing list. My boss came to me and, to my horror, prodded me to keep flaming away. Flaming customers, mind you. Not usually a good business strategy...
I had my reservations, as an old-time Troll. I couldn't see the benefit. But my boss has an understanding of business that I lack, and I've learned to trust him. So I did it. I was my usual asshole self. I put fifteen years' experience in net.flaming into a post that was factually sound and very logical, but with my inner asshole coming out like Fran Drescher's voice in a granite cathedral. (Not that you have to dig deep to find the inner asshole where I'm concerned, mind you). It was so offensive, that only the people who already agreed with me already could agree with what I said, no matter how sound my logic was.
The next day, the boss told me: Now apologize to everyone.
Since then, I can actually see the repercussions. Many of them are just ripples from other things happening off in the distance, but the effect is clear: It was a kick in the ass to an industry that needed it, and suddenly people are wondering why that asshole on the mailing list was so damned mad. They're digging deeper.
You see this with SCO. Whenever SCO says something stupid and outlandish, the Free Software community will retaliate with venom, but others will also dig deeper to see: Do they have a point, and if so, how can we prevent this? Groklaw has become useful for this very reason -- for this purpose of getting the facts straight. Linus changed how he maintained the kernel. A lot of due diligence is being done on GNU/Linux that might never have been done anyway.
The whole O'Gara situation is causing people to look and think critically about the relationship between publishers, editors and content who haven't looked at such things before.
I was surprised to see the results of my little public flamewar. I wasn't surprised that people were pissed off; I was surprised that there was a genuine positive and creative response to it. My boss was fucking brilliant.
It shows that provocative writing does have a point from time to time. It is the little ego of the industry, goading people out of their complacency. Thank God this shit is not the only motivation we have, but it does have that use.
I thought the quote in the leader to this article was offensive, but it got me RTFA, and when I RTFA, I have to admit I laughed. I am laughing at myself, a true blue anti-MS zealot, when he says about the Linux community "Too nutty even for the Mac community? We welcome you!" It hits close to home, but he's right. I -am- too nutty for the Mac community.
So I think it's a bit more useful than just a scam to draw enough eyes that advertisers are happy; columnist journalism can occasionally benefit the industry.
Although most of the time, we're just trolling assholes.
Dvorak is one of the smartest writers in the industry, and as someone who took a step back a couple of years ago, after being immersed in Linux (and being paid to write about it) for the better part of four years, Dvorak has called it right. (For the record, I was a rampant member of the Amiga community as well.)
The Linux community IS populated by lunatics. Microsoft don't even need to fight Linux. They can just sit back and watch the community built around it fall apart. Torn apart by the childish zealots who created the situation.
Dvorak is merely commenting on it. Those who think he's blowing smoke are the exact problem the community has.
You got to love journalists. They want power with no responsibility!
Take a look at Newsweek. They got one tip and checked not facts then publish a story the looks like it got people killed! When the Challenger blew up the camera crew kept shooting the faces of the crews families while the watched there loved ones die. Now O'Gara chases down some on and invades there privacy for no real reason. And the Linux community is upset? Dvorak feels this makes them the crack pots? My goodness for all the stupid things I have seen on Slashdot this has got to be one of few examples of justified moral outrage and human compassion. The fact that Linux community said in one voice "We do not care what religion she is. We do not care that she takes care of her elderly mother, we do not care what PJ looks like. We only care about facts."
Maybe Mr. Dvorak should take a lesson from this. You maybe free to write what you want but we also have the right to hold you responsible for the quality of what you write.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Daryl McBride makes a statement about 'exposing' the Groklaw writer for what she is (attempt to discredit) on or about the 13th of April. O'Gara carries out that attempt - but fails miserably some time afterwards - as we all saw explode in /. this week.
Is that a mere coincidence? Are we paranoid to think there is any linkage between SCO and Ms. O'Gara? Or could it be that she took his statement as the lead for a story? Who knows?
However, it is incorrect to paint the FOSS movement as a bunch of criminals. On the contrary, that community has seen how monies from the convicted monopoly Microsoft, have gotten into the SCO treasury via the Canopy Group - to fight free and open source software. We have also seen people involved with the case meet untimely death under strange circumstances.
You are not paranoid if they really are out to get you. Then again, it could all just be coincidental. I'll leave determination of that as an exersize for the reader...
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Gee, that's reaching deep into the bag of tricks: insult one group by insulting another that's well-known for fanaticism.
m ag.html
s p
Here's Dvorak's own words about his Amiga:
http://www.cucug.org/amiga/aminews/1996/961003-pc
And only a few months ago, he was insulting the Mac community by comparing them to the Amiga:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1745930,00.a
So why bring up the Amiga? Seems like Dvorak likes to drag a stick across the cages of owners of computers whose market share never exceeds five percent, then uses it as evidence that they're rabid. Puhlease! It's not as if the Linux market is a unified entity.
Curator of the Jefferson Computer Museum http://www.threedee.com/jcm
This really ought to just be a categorical principle. Nothing by or about Dvorak goes on the front page. He's a slight step above O'Gara, but only a slight one. He *does not* deserve or warrant extra readers.
His argument is:
(1) Sure O'Gara tried to instigate stalkers to commit violence against PJ and/or her family.
(2) Sure O'Gara violated privacy rights and trespassed.
(3) Those hysterical "Linux fanatics" get worked up over the silliest things.
This matter is *not* about merely bad journalism, which O'Gara (and Dvorak) have been doing for a long time. OK, fine, publish another "study" that proves Linux will irradiate your brain, and Windows will bring you inner peace. Whatever. It's propoganda and fluff, but ultimately within free speech rights.
What O'Gara did is criminal incitement of violence, and probable RICO violations.
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I can't say much about Slashdot. However, newsgroups have been around much longer; and this same disease of bitching about how the newbies are clueless goes back to the very beginnings of the Internet.
The use of moderation only works when the moderators themselves are actually knowlegable and civil enough to understand who is ranting, who is BSing, and what the relevant issues really are.
That's why I still feel that only you can really moderate the stuff you read. Slashdot's moderation scheme is a nice try. But ultimately, it only works after the fact --if it works at all. Participation in a discussion is the only way to smoke out who is full of themselves, and who knows his/her stuff.
Nearly fifty percent of all graduates come from the bottom half of the class!
Once upon a time, there were no user accounts, see. We had to type in our nicknames everytime we posted, and anyone could type in anything as anybody and you never knew who anyone was, and that's the way we liked it, dadgummit! We debated all kinds of heady intellectual ideals back then, not like you kids today with your flame wars and trolling. See, we knew that computers and the internet were going to change the world, the geekiest (meaning us) were going to be the new power elite (even if we hadn't, you know, actually done anything.) This was before most people had any idea about commercializing Linux or the Internet, before the Boom and the Crash, back when reading Wired was cool, Yahoo was a tiny little portal, Altavista was the search engine of choice and google was a number. All we had was dialup, mostly at 28.8k and the packets had to go uphill, through the snow, both ways. So it took too long to post nonsense, ya see? And we respected each other and only said nice things, not like you kids today.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton