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Top Mice Compared
Johnny writes "Unfortunately mice are one of the most overlooked computer peripherals, while in reality should be one of the first places where your hard earned cash should be invested in. TechSpot has posted a round-up of some of the best mice currently available in the market: Logitech's MX1000 and MX518, Razer's Viper and Diamondback, and from Microsoft, the Wireless Intellimouse Explorer and the Optical Mouse by S+ARCK."
When I recently started feeling a tingling smarting pain in my right arm, I got a Perific Dual Mouse and after the first week I not only have gotten used to it, I'm also almost symptom-free. I tend to change between using it as a regular mouse and setting it on end and using it as a trackball. Sometimes, I use it with the pistol-grip but rarely use the two-handed grip. It's a bit smaller than the Logitechs I'm normally used to, but it's pretty easy to switch between them. If you have any kind of RSI condition or even if you're afraid of getting it, I'd strongly recommend looking into the Perific mouse.
Money for nothing, pix for free
Mice, Keyboards, and Monitors.
Sure, you can deal with your computer being a little slow, but skimp on the above and you can wreck your wrests, posture, and eyes.
With a gel wrist pad, your arm only moves when you want it to, and there's no RSI or other nerve damage.
And you can use it on any surface, since it doesn't move.
I've been using trackballs for about 10 years now, can't stand regular mice anymore.
Logitech seems to make the best ones. Their Trackman series is my favorite.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
I've been using a trackball for a couple years now. I enjoy it much more than a regular mouse. Its not only perfect when desk space is at a premium, but also in reducing RSI. When your are can remain in one position, its less likely that it will get into an uncomfortable/unnatural position which could cause injury. I also find it more accurate than a mouse, or at least as accurate. I find that they don't need to be cleaned as often, because they aren't rolling around on a dirty surface. Unless you don't wash your hands. Also, it's nice to be able to click without having to worry about moving the pointer.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
They would sell more mice if they didn't name them after poisonous serpents. What? Are they trying to scare the other mice away?
I hate mice and would much prefer a good quality keyboard with pointing stick like the IBM notebooks. Preferably something matching layout of my notebook keyboard, and comfortable for lap or desktop use.
Is a periperal like his marketed? Pointer?
I always had problems with mice skipping when I moved them too fast. Then I bought the MX510. As I am concerned it is pointless for me to get a higher resolution mouse and now that they are $30 on newegg there is no reason to not at least achieve that level of performance.
All this talk of the mice, but what of 'high-performance' mousepads? I recently upgraded from a regular wooden desk to a 20$ job, I can't remember the name of the company, something 1080, but the mouse just glides across it. I personally think this was an excellent upgrade to make, not only for gaming, but overall computing pleasure...I'm even contemplating purchasing a second for my work machine...
I have a MS natural keyboard and a 5 button optical intellimouse.
Unfortunately mice are one of the most overlooked computer peripherals, while in reality should be one of the first places where your hard earned cash should be invested in.
... oh forget it. I started to be perverted, but I feel like breaking precedent today....
It is the first place my right hand goes when I set down at the computer. Shortly afterwards, the left hand
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
"while in reality should be one of the first places where your hard earned cash should be invested in"
OK, sure because mouse resolution and "mousing surfaces" are what most people really care about. I've been a system builder for better than 10 years and while a good mouse is important, good can easily be a $6.00 optical mouse made by Mitsumi. The first place to spend my cash? I think not. While twitch gamers get so hyped up on mice and surfaces its almost retarded, and regular users just want a mouse that works doesn't cripple them and responds well. Personally I still use my trusty iFeel Optical Mouseman by Logitech, probably about 7 years old with no issues or problems... cost? $12.99
http://teasphere.wordpress.com - A little spot of tea
I'm using a Logitech MX900 right now, and it's the best mouse I've ever owned.
Well, as a heavy duty console user myself, I'd damn well like to see something less half arsed than the right thumbstick for aiming. No, the touch screen on the DS isn't it either. I said _less_ half arsed.
Been talking with a gamer co-worker some months ago, and we came up with "well, why the heck doesn't anyone use a trackball?"
Just think about it. Replace the right thumbstick with a trackball, and you suddenly have a device that can actually work as well as a mouse for either FPS or RTS. (The weakest uses of a gamepad at the moment.) Or close enough. I had co-workers which were good at Half Life multi-player with a trackball, so it can't be too bad.
And it seems to me like it _can't_ be that me and said co-worker are the only smart people on Earth. Surely others had the same idea by now. So WTH is preventing Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo from making a controller like that? Did someone already patent a gamepad with a trackball, or?
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
I bought a Logitech MX-700 a few years ago and it's probably the best mouse I've ever had. The only complaint I have is that it tends to "jitter" when sitting in certain spots on my mousepad. I haven't tested a new pad, yet, but if I were looking for a new mouse right now, I can tell you I'd head straight for that MX-1000.
"There are more important things than stopping terrorism. Upholding the Constitution is one of them." - Ars Forumer.
I like optical mice because they don't get full of fluff. The problem I did have with them is that they don't like shiny desk surfaces. So I got the Logitech MX1000.
On a polished pine desk it never misses a twitch. It's very sensitive so I can minimize my wrist movement and maintain precision, and I get to say i have a laser mouse. The battery lasted a week away on business (using the mouse all day) without needing charging or even dipping below two bars out of three. It's just a shame it's an IR laser and you can't see it.....
Very much worth the price tag.
I've got the MX1000. I more-or-less agree with what the review says about it except for two things: 1. An additional con should be that the recharch station is also the receiver, so you have to have that honkin thing sitting out in the open (relatively). 2. I find this statement at the end laughable - "Best Precision and Responsiveness: Logitech MX 1000". THIS MOUSE IS 800 DPI FOLKS! If you do precise graphics editing and/or you are a fairly skilled twitch gamer, this mouse is not for you. The mouse does work fine for mere mortal gamers like myself though.
Only a problem if you sit there like a lump and never move your arm or anything else.
Even during the marathon 18+ hour gaming sessions I move around. Yeah, if I sat in exactly the same position for that long I'd probably have nerve damage in my arm, neck, ass, whatever. So I don't.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
It's worth nothing that the laser in the MX1000 doesn't emit visible light :) (at least mine doesn't).
"Those who would give up Essential Liberty, to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"
"Now, Earth creature," he said, "the situation we have in effect is this. We have, as you know, been more or less running your planet for the last ten million years in order to find this wretched thing called the Ultimate Question."
"Why?" said Arthur, sharply.
"No - we already thought of that one," said Frankie interrupting, "but it doesn't fit the answer. Why? - Forty-Two ... you see, it doesn't work.
Ooops. Sorry. Should have RTFA. Wrong Top Mice. I'll go away now.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Anything I post is strictly my own thoughts and doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the opinions of IBM.
Anybody else notice that the reviewer never tested ANY of the mice with a left-handed user?
All those "its ergonomic" Pro points would have been reversed, and suddenly the 2 Razers and the Starck thing would be the more ergonomic mice.
Here ya go:
m #kbmrf100
http://www.fentek-ind.com/rf-wireless-keyboard.ht
the nipple is in the top right corner, so not quite as handy as a thinkpad.
They do ones with trackballs and touchpads too, but the best mouse is this foot operated one: http://www.fentek-ind.com/nh-mouse.htm
~~~~~ BigLig2? You mean there's another one of me?
I think what's preventing them from coming up with something like a trackball is that, although it would be great for RTS and FPS games, it would suck royally for just about everything else. They need to have one controller that can work for every game produced. Mind you, if they offered something for $30 (price of regular controller), I think i would highly consider getting it. It would make FPS games so much more fun to play. As it is now, I can't stand FPS games on consoles, and refuse to buy them.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
why oh why do we still use mice keyboards & monitors?
I'm looking at the gyromouse (can be lifted free from the desk) as an absolute comprimise. I can't even run two independent mice at once? I can't even run two independent keyboards at once? (why you ask? macros for one)
I don't care how good they make the "mouse" or the "keyboard" they are next to obsolete in my eyes. The manufacturers just haven't caught up with the present. Are we all still cynical because of movies like lawnmower man? Yes we *should* have direct interaction with the computer. We *should* be able to liberate ourselves from our desks.
i'm more able to expand the functionality & efficiency of my computer by expanding its controls indefinitely with midi. Yes I know it too has its limitations but it was atleast designed to be expandable, not be a static typewriter replacement.
give me an expandable interface. let me connect 10 racks of assignable buttons. Let me rotate an object in maya by grabbing one side of it with one hand and moving the other side. Theres no processing limitation on this, just a lack of vision (or marketability)
ah thats the end of that rant... - 'plex
Rich Gentlemen Hide - The Existential Comic
I use a MX1000 and I'm happy with it for the most part. The battery life is very very good (though I do find it irritating that some reviewers assume the indicator scale is linear. I don't know if it is -- haven't bothered tracking it in detail -- but early reviewers went like "battery time is very good, X hours and only one indicator LED down" -- like that says anything).
Anyhow, the only problem I have is that due to being an "early adopter" I got a base reciever station with an irritating "skip bug" which oddly enough manifests only when using USB, not when using USB->PS2.. So I'm running on the PS/2 adapter (included) with no loss in precision.
The other thing is that you really don't want Logitechs intrusive GiantMouseWare software and drivers under Windows. Best thing is to track down mwadvanced_enu.exe on their homepage and change the acceleration curve to "OS implementation" and "tracking optimization" to "precision". This gives perfect smooth motion. Very nice.
I used several MS IntelliMouse Optical before, but they seemed to always break down in exactly the same way after a year or two. MX1000 are just as good "feelingwise", no problem with it being cordless at all.
I should also mention that I'm a leftie and tend to switch between using the mouse in my left and right hand. I have no problem using the MX1000 in my left hand at all. Sure ,the "groove" for the thumb won't be in the right place, but the mouse actually fit pretty good anyhow.
Belief is the currency of delusion.
E.g., if you read the very first page of the review, about the MX1000: "As with optical mice, if you don?t make use of it for several seconds, the battery indicator turns off and the mouse goes into power saving mode."
Now I am a hardcore twitch-gamer, and let me tell you that those power saving delays are what gets you killed in multi-player. You end up doing weird stuff like slightly waving the scope around when you wait for a target as a sniper, because otherwise you have that brief wake-up delay when you do need the mouse.
I had an MX500 and went and bought an MX300 with a cord instead.
Basically my take is that it's a mouse that isn't really good for either. For twitch gaming I _really_ want a corded one, for someone who just browses the web, as you've said, a $6 mouse works just as well. So who are the target demographic that absolutely needed it?
The SFV (Stupid Fashion Victims). The people who buy for the buzzwords and the hype. OOOH, IT'S LASER!
As someone who actually spent a lot of time studying physics, lemme tell you what you probably already knew or suspected: there is nothing magical about laser light in a mouse.
Yes, you can use the coherent light wonderfully for other purposes. But an optical mouse works more or less like a camera: it compares consecutive snapshots and determines the movement from the difference. Increasing the resolution or the number of snapshots per second, yeah, that'll make it a better mouse. Putting a laser diode instead of a regular LED in it, however, won't do jack.
Logitech's problem is: the keyboards and mice business isn't a great place to be in. You won't make a big fortune by selling el-cheapo $6 mice. So they just need some buzzword to allow them to sell a $50 one instead. That's all.
And if you put up enough hype, there'll be enough SFVs that believe it. And enough sites who aren't even as much review sites, but prom queens: they just print whatever is currently popular and brings page views. They catter to stroking the ego of those who already knew which buzzword they really want to buy. If enough SFVs fall for a buzzword, those sites will dutifully print an article telling them how good it really is, and how pleased they can be with that purchase.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
from tiny buttons to large marble balls that kids can take out and smash on the ground, modern day mouse/trackball designers are absolutly stupid when it comes to common sense and logical thinking. more buttons on a mouse doesn't really improve performance, nor does futuristic looking designs where noone can make heads and tails of where the buttons are.
I was pleasantly surprised when I found out how much more efficient the traveler size mouse over the convensional size mouse after I started to play some flash games where the efficiency of using one's mouse became apparant. I would like to share some personal findings on efficncy of a mouse.
First and fore most, I would like to discuss about the scroll wheel. The scroll wheel is a good idea. However, it isn't in the right place. For human beings, our thumb and index finger are much much more efficient and accurate than our middle finger. So it made absolutly no sense to put the scroll wheel in the middle of the mouse. Since the index finger is occupied by the left button, it makes sense to use a person's thumb for scroll wheeling. In stead of aquire motor skills with your middle finger. Further more, what's with scroll wheels and tilt wheels anyhow? wouldn't it be easier just to use a trackball system for scrolling? think about it, how natural a person will feel with a scrolling ball controlled by the thumb!
In the world of mouse, bigger isn't better! big mice are bulky, makes a person's hand bump into other items on the desk; and not only slow down pointing process, but dimishes accuracy as well. Now I am not saying small is better, but size of the mouse should be proportionally smaller to a person's hand by 30%.
Simple and elegant is better! even though when a mouse offers 10 programmable buttons, I found myself hardly ever use them. This is because of several reasons:
1. Additional driver software causes the computer to lag. This is mostly due to inefficient software packages that eats ton of processing time and memory just to listen and opt an extra button.
2. Most software package don't take advantage from those extra buttons, and they certainly don't act uniformly toward the function selection.
3. Buttons interfere with regular mouse functions (especially logitech mice where there's tiny buttons near the scroll wheel. It's easy to push them by accident and screw things up)
4. Somes those extra buttons just outright don't work.
5. Special functions are not supported over a KVM
In most cases, mice is about inflated price and step by step technology improvement. and in most cases, designer mice gets sold without much consideration of the users. This trend should stop and the mice world needs another revolution to correct the current trend of things.
the profit margin on these given the price range must be 400%. So these things probably earn more per unit than selling a dell shitbox, and x-box or maybe even an ipod.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The environmental cost should also be considered.
One basic argument against wireless mice and keyboards is that they required batteries. In lots of case the batteries will need changing weekly. This seems ludicrous to me. At least the "wire" mouse will not require batteries so the cost this is lower.
I've been using the S+arck mouse with my G5 for a while now. I've been using a two button mouse since my first Mac (running OS 9).
As for the one-button mouse, I think Apple has it right on. I work at a retail store, dealing with people who are less than computer saavy. A typical conversation:
Me: "Okay now, I want you to right click for me..."
Them: "Right click?"
Me: "Yes, on your mouse, hit the right button."
Them: "Okay, I've done that."
Me: "Okay, now click on 'Properties' and then..."
Them: "Is that RIGHT click?"
Me: "No, Left click."
And it will go on and on.
With a Mac and the OS, walking a user through is much simpler. There's no need to worry about right/left click, nor is there a need to worry (typically) about options being hidden in contextual menus. It's perfect for novice users.
However, if you so desire to use a multibutton mouse, OS X will support up to five buttons out of the box. And yes, those right clicks will bring up contextual menus that will allow users to get to the information "quicker" than before.
What gets me the most is when I'm talking to a PC user who laughs about the one button mouse. I mention that I'm using a two button mouse, which they reply, "Well, Apple should supply one in the box!"
"Do you have the original mouse that came with your PC?"
"No, I have a Logitech MX1000."
So it's alright that they bought a new mouse for their PC, but Mac users should be forever stuck with the one button mouse? HUH?
I asked my aunt, who's a hand surgeon, about "ergonomic" input devices, and she told me that the opposite is true. The best thing to do is to move around a lot, so that you don't stiffly stick to one position; she said that a variety of motions is less likely to cause RSI. In her opinion, old-fashioned typewriters were better than modern keyboards because they forced users to lift their hands to return the carriage, roll paper, etc.
I think I'll be building a keyboard hack where every switch is different. =)
I found the Logitech MX900 Bluetooth mouse and keyboard combo on sale for around $100 US at buy.com
It moves relatively smoothly, but I soemtimes have to fight the need to lift it to cover the entire screen. I have set the Tracking Speed to maximum and need still more to be happy. I'm not using a mousepad. I'm going to try one to see if that helps.
The Logitech MX900 has worked well without ever connecting the USB cable from the charging/Bluetooth base. I just hated the idea that a) I had no way to turnoff the Bluetooth receiver I'm not using. I have no idea if it can or is causing interference with the receiver in the iMac. b) The mouse has to be recharged on that base so I can't just chuck it.
In hopes that a mouse that used simple AA batteries would be more appropriate, I bought a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer for Bluetooth for ~$50US. It was pretty much wasted money. It's nowhere near as good as the Logitech. The mouse movement is much, much worse than the Logitech. It constantly disconnects - I assume it has an auto-shutoff to save the batteries. In spite of that, it's already eaten a set of the original Lithium batteries after only 3 months of occasional use.
Ironically I've had little trouble with the Logitech batteries being discharged as I feared. We just park it in the base when we're done working.
Bluetooth on the Mac has been a constant source of annoyance. I've had to power down to get the mouse and keyboard to work more times than I can count. Bluetooth will not wake up after the Mac goes to sleep. I reported that online to the "fine" off-shored Apple support who disconnected on me. That is apparently a known bug to Apple.
Tiger hasn't fixed the problem. Now we often get "No mouse found" and/or "No keyboard found" at power up after which we use the non-existent mouse and keyboard to log in. What an absolute pain.
Ever dream you could fly? Get up from the Flight Sim. I Fly
Yes, the best ergonomic point of them all: move around. That's why I like wireless, I can take the mouse in mu hands, lean back, and read the page with the scroll wheel, left+right button is forward in Opera, right+left is back. Brilliant! I also have an L-shaped desk, so sometimes I have the mouse in front of me, someimes to my right side while sitting further from the monitor, etc.
True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
Overlooking the laughable application of you being a total waste of skin, you might want to examine this:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=marathon
Broaden your mind. If you can.
Hokey statistics and ancient misconceptions are no match for a good thought in your head, kid!
I wanted to know the actual stats of the sensors used but couldn't find a site with technical info. So I made one.
If you have a mouse not listed, I'd appreciate info and/or pictures.
Also, if you use a Logitech mouse and/or keyboard that uses the SetPoint driver, unlock loads of features with my UberOptions mod for SetPoint.
-Richard
-Richard L. Owens
As per most other hardware advancements, gaming has really defined the quality bar by being the most demanding application.
I was recently given a Microsoft Wireless IntelliMouse Explorer 2.0 and a Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer 4.0 to compare. They are basically the same mouse but one is wireless and one is corded. I tried both with Unreal Tournament 2003, and there's still of course a huge difference between corded and wireless. The wireless mouse is laggy and significantly less responsive than the corded one. It's so bad that it makes FPS games basically unplayable.
No wireless mouse will ever be able to match the responsiveness and precision of a corded mouse, so the simple fact that this "review" ranks a wireless mouse as the top choice just shows how worthless this review actually is. Even if 90% of your mouse usage is on standard desktop/GUI activities, and you only rarely fire up a game to play, you will still be far better off with a good corded mouse.
Furthermore, durability and drivers are two issues largely overlooked by this review. If you go to the Logitech support forums you can find tons of users who have problems with the MX510 and MX518's buttons failing. It appears to be a design defect. And you can find tons of frustrated MX518 users who are suffering from major bugs in the SetPoint drivers or who are unable to get drivers for their platform (the MX518 drivers are only available for WinXP). By comparison, the Microsoft IntelliPoint software isn't very feature-rich for gaming purposes, but it's totally stable and is available for nearly every Microsoft mouse on every windows version.
Moderator hint: a comment is neither "Flamebait" nor "Troll" if it is true.
As someone who's used both a MX1000 and MX510 extensively in gaming, including sniping in Counter-Strike or whatever as you state, I can assure you there's no latency or problems with the MX1000 as far as gaming goes. Try it before you slam it. You call people who use a product you've never even tried stupid? Based on what, wild ass assumptions? That's not very logical. Every review of the MX1000 out there states they're great for gaming. And they are. I use a cheap mouse at work; there's a world of difference in ergonomics, precision, and tracking between the MX1000 and it. Latency isn't a factor. Period.