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7-Year Old Prequel Fan On ANH
Random BedHead Ed writes "It is a subject often pondered by Star Wars fans: what is it like to watch the six films in order with a fresh perspective? From the Desk of Ghent, On one of the Star Wars blog site's many journals, answers this question in a recent blog entry about the writer's 7-year old son, who recently watched A New Hope for the very first time. Some enlightening quotes: 'Look... Obi-Wan is pretending he doesn't know R2-D2,' and 'Why don't those ships need Hyperspace rings?' It's a pity the end of Empire has been spoiled."
"'Why don't those ships need Hyperspace rings?'"M
Because they didn't even exist in the past in the future in the past. DUH.
Future past future!
How did Yoda go so senile so quickly?
You will never have the opportunity to relive the moment of truth at the end of Empire, or learn about the twins in Return of the Jedi. It will all be a foregone conclusion. Robbing a child of this opportunity is a heinous crime, given how much I enjoyed the original series given its original presentation.
John Maynard Keynes: "When the facts change, I change my mind. What do you do?"
"What happened to everybody's madd light saber skillz???"
"Why are red leader and gold leader the leaders? They don't know what they're doing..."
...
A question many of us have been asking ourselves ever since *we* saw it the first time
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
Yep. R2 is truely the most Force attuned of them all. Yoda and the other Jedi may have Midichlorians, but R2 has METAL chlorians! [guitar riff!] Excellent!
Start Running Better Polls
So, does this mean that R2-D2 is really the main character in Star Wars?
Well you could ask Lucas but I doubt he would know.
Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
A seven year old is more sophisticated watching his movies than George Lucas could muster while actually engaged in writing them. But then, some of us suspected as much, having been exposed to Howard the Duck.
You can enjoy a production of Hamlet
knowing that the prince goes mad. I don't think
it spoils anything to know the surprise in Empire.
I was not surprised -- not saying I saw it coming, exactly, but it was one of the possibilities that had crossed my mind. I thought it was more likely that Obi-Wan *was* Vader. That was the twist I was expecting. I had a whole argument for it and everything, back then. I was a little bummed to find out I was wrong.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
If one thing I found was that I was more bound to side with the Empire simply after seeing how inept the Republic truly was.
The new perspective gained from watching the first three puts the whole series in a new light. The Empire really became what it was simply because the Republic and Jedi had become so egocentric and inept they had to be replaced to move forward.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
When my three year old is old enough to watch the movies, I'll just show him IV through VI and skip the others. Finding out about the family relationsips, (as well as who Yoda is) is just too important, and the whole series suffers way too much. I liked episode III better than I or II, but watching Darth throw out his arms and arch his back screaming "NNNNOOOOOOOOOO" was terrible. As I left the theatre, I thought, "that is the last bit of new Star Wars I'll see. And it ended with a "NOOOOO!!!".
At what point did the Emperor decide that it was time to change Storm Troopers into a zesty new outfit and cut back on the accuracy training budget?
And when did they all get a new accent?
Am I the only one who thinks that the Star Wars movies aren't really something that a 7-year-old should be seeing? This isn't some crack about the movies' quality, I'm just thinking that some of the scenes in these movies are very dark and scary for a 7-year-old.
Alphanos
I always read things and watch series in the order they were written, not in the order of the books. It is better to watch Star Wars this way, read the Foundation series this way, and just about anything I can think of. In this way you follow the natural creative process of the writer rather than an artificial storyline; you grow with the writer and the story, the last three Star Wars movies certainly don't flow like Lucas wrote them all at the same time, maybe he had a vague treatment...
It's a pity the end of Empire has been spoiled.
Now instead of surprise it will be irony, as the audience knows what Luke does not. The audience also is left ahead of time wondering why Obi-Wan lies to Luke about his father.
Spoiled? Perhaps, in a way. But also brings up other things which are potentially interesting.
MORTAR COMBAT!
Slightly off topic, but this guy mentions that his kid has watched RotS twice (I think it was).
My four year old girl has started expressing a MAJOR interest in all things Star Wars since seeing, for some reason, a Darth Vader poster (I hope that doesn't say something disturbing about her bugeoning subconscious).
I have sat with her and watched A New Hope, which she thoroughly enjoyed, but having seen Sith myself, I think the scene of Anakin's "disfigurement" was a wee bit much for a child of her age, and I don't know how mature this guy's seven year old is, but is ANY child of that age ready for something like that?
"The dew has clearly fallen with a particularly sickening thud this morning"
This sound like awfully sophisticated thoughts for a 7 year old. Maybe kids have gotten better at understanding these things, or maybe it's a particularly intelligent 7 year old, but I'm doubting this is for real.
Also of note is how much Lucas' writing and directing style have changed. Episode IV is very slow paced compared to III. There is only one light-sabre battle, and it consists of Obi-Wan and Darth walking around calmly while being careful not to break a sweat. Contrast that to III, which has tons of sabre (and other) battles, and it quite fast paced.
Next time I have the pleasure of showing these to someone for the first time, I am definitely showing them 4-6, then 1-3, then 4-6 again. Spoiling some of the major emotional moments of 4-6 by seeing 1-3 first, ugh.
the Political Inquirer
Comment removed based on user account deletion
'Look... Obi-Wan is pretending he doesn't know R2-D2,'
I recenetly rewatched Episode 4 and was struck with the same thought. I guessed that Obi Wan was just pretending he didn't know R2D2 since he's supposed to be keeping a low profile and Luke obviously knew nothing of Ben's role as a Jedi knight in the Clone Wars.
R2D2 could have had his memory erased, could be reprogrammed as an Imperial spy, ect. So until he saw the message from Leia and knew it was not a trap of some sort, he had to maintain his cover.
It's all about more money for George.
You need to get to out more. You'll find that attitude taken by many Muslim, Jewish, left wing christian nutjobs, and new age liberal, and athiest parents. Probably other groups I haven't had direct experience with as well.
Why am I saying anything? I was raised by left wing christian nutjobs and had friends whose parents filled one of the above categories. Being an over protective parent has little to do with being a right wing christian, and more to do with being a fscking control freak. And control freaks are found in every religious and non-religious group.
The word vader would be pronounced "FAH-DHER" in most languages of a germanic lineage including Middle-English. FATHER is basically the result of a few hundred years of regional dialect changes. In Afrikaans, Darth Vader would have said "Ek is jou vader (I am your father)". So the big *surprise* in Empire is only to those who speak modern English
I think the best order dramatically is IV, V, I, II, III, VI. You still get the surprise in Empire, and then treat the prequels as an extended flashback, which adds much more weight to the scenes with Luke, Vader and the Emperor in Jedi.
Well, that's sort of the definition of redemption. If you're talking standard Christian doctrine, then redemption is available to ALL sinners, regardless of the depths of their apostasy. If you're a Christian, then your sin is forgiven by God, through his Son. All you have to do is accept redemption sincerely, and it is given to you.
Now, in Star Wars, I guess we can imagine that Luke is willing to sacrifice his life for his dad's. By accepting that act of gracious sacrifice, Darth was redeemed. Not quite a perfect fit with standard Christian stories, but the metaphor remains intact. Someone who is faithful (Luke has faith in his father's goodness despite much evidence to the contrary) reaches out to someone who doesn't deserve it, and offers redemption. It is accepted, and the person is redeemed!
If King David can be redeemed through faith, then so can Darth Vader...
Maybe we're just a bit too jaded with a vengeful mentality these days to accept the idea that even the worst human is worthy of redemption.
Joe G.
Bishop, CA
Don't Die Wondering
When Anakin started to burn up after losing most of his limbs, it is quite possible that his penis was severely burned. Considering that he was engulfed in flames, it is probably safe to say that his penis and scrotum were literally quite gone. Now, my question is, did the Emperor install a prosthetic, mechanical penis onto Darth Vader?
Cyric Zndovzny at your service.
So Anakin not only brought balance to the force, the light side was seriously overrepresented, but also the fans, the light side was seriously overrated. ;-)
The more important question is why do they wear armor that can't even take one hit.
From a blaster or an Ewok with a stick?
Yes but keep in mind that Darth turned to the dark side to save his wife, and then turned from the dark side to save his son. See, Darth's all about love. Or that his only loyalty is family and he'll betray anyone. ;-)
I always felt that when showing the movies to someone who's never seen the movies at all and doesn't know about Luke's father (though most people do know about Vader, since that line is so engrained in pop culture), the proper order should be 4-5-1-2-3-6. Thus you get the story of Darth Vader who's this magic "Force" weilding goon for the empire, and of Luke, this farm boy from a desert planet who also learns of the force from Crazy Old Obi-Wan (Who tells him that Vader killed his father), and then rescues the pricess, joins the rebellion, and kicks ass. Then he goes to learn more of the force from Crazy Green Yoda, but leaves too early to finish his training, gets his butt kicked, and then learns that Vader is his father. Now, start in Episode 1 where you learn how Aniken became a Jedi, how the empire began, and how Aniken became Vader. Now, a small problem with this is that you learn that Leia is Luke's sister right at the end of 3, but that's not so big a deal since Yoda hints at there being another in 5, and you find out about Leia pretty early in 6 anyway. Then after seeing the prequills, you watch ROTJ to see how everything resolves and how Luke redeems Vader and defeats the empire.
you are implying that the Dark Side is a gay conspiracy, then you are being very, very naughty. :-)
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Yep, Eps IV-VI had bad acting and dialogue.
They succeded better for two reasons:
1. The directors worked around the bad dialogue a bit better.
2. Alec Guiness.
3. By far the biggest, Harrison Ford. Without Harrison Ford there would have been no episode V, let alone VI,I,II,III. He made the character work, he made his dialogue work. He knew the character better than Lucus. He ad-libbed the "I know" response to Leia's "I Love You".
The other actors and their dialogue varied. Hamill was a great farm boy, a mediocre Jedi. Fisher was terrible all around. But Harrison Ford glued it together and made it work.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
To me, one of the greatest thing about Star Wars is the Big Revelation in Empire. Why spoil that? I will be watching Empire tomorrow night with my daughter and I can't wait to see her jaw hit the floor just as the jaws of the collective audience in 1980 hit the floor. If any of you out there have children coming of age and want to show them these films, PLEASE show them in release order. They don't need the prequels to appreciate the original trilogy
Don't get me wrong. I am one of the few who think the prequels kick ass from start to finish, but why spoil one of the greatest surprises in movie history just to give a lot of back story that doesn't matter much until you've see the originals anyway?
Besides, for a new viewer, the prequels still contain the surprise of Palpatine being the Emperor so it's just fine to end your viewing of the films with Sith. Palpatine isn't referred to by name in Jedi so there is still a satisfying build-up and climax in the prequels with that revelation (most of us hardcore fans might not realize that because we already knew who he was. New, younger viewers won't.)
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
The endings of both tESB and RotJ had a new spin for me after watching Sith recently. By the end of Empire, Vader has figured out that the Emperor lied to him and his son was alive all along. What does he do? Try to get Luke's help to muscle the old man out and run things himself. Now it comes off not just as greed for more power, but as hoping for revenge for being lied to and otherwise manipulated.
Similary, the end of Jedi seems totally different to me now. Vader realizes his hopes of taking over as the new Emperor aren't going to happen because Luke just isn't good enough to pull it off, and he cracks. He gets pissed off and the old reflexes to kill the person responsible kick in, so he offs Palpatine in a rage the same way he routinely used to kill people in his younger days. It's not to atone for his sins or even to save his son. He's been getting pushed around by this guy for twenty years, looking for a weak moment to off him, and finally he gives up hope on a better ending and just finishes him off while there's a good window to do it.
* How do you know it took the whole 18 years to build?
* How do you know that the second Death Star wasn't already under construction prior to the destruction of the first?
* Why wouldn't it be quicker to build something if you've already been through the process once before (as if we haven't witnessed that with computers in our own lifetimes)?
* They DID consider small fighters a problem which is why they were building an improved Death Star in secret so it wouldn't be attacked before it was completed. That was a main plot point in Jedi, that the rebels had discovered what the Empire was doing.
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."
OK people, pay attention and learn something There have been tech advances in the 20 years since the "end" of eps 3 and the start of 4 Obi-Wan did not "recognize" R2D2 because he was not supposed to let on what had been happening, obviously he had been training himself to hide from Vader. Uncle Owen did not recognize C3PO because threepio did not have coverings when he was on that farm previously. In additon there are probably MILLIONS of similar protocol droids, recall the one that threepio ran into on Bespin? Vader walked like "frankenstein" because he was 1) in pain, 2) using new prostheses 3) probably having problems breathing He shouted NNNOOOOO!!!! because he went through everything he did in order to SAVE his wife and yet he has been told HE killed her. Would eny of you done differently? AND FINALLY>>>> you people need to quit trying to apply EARTH and HUMAN values and concepts to what is supposed to be an ALIEN and NON_TERRAN society, these people were not meant to think like you and me, their culture is considerably different than the USofA
Talking to Geeks is like eating jello with a chainsaw, interesting, but painful.
Also, maybe the station itself didn't take that long to build (say, 3-6 years to finish it completely). What if the big delay before revealing the first one was R&D of the superlaser? Without its primary planet-killing weapon, the Death Star is just an oversized, inefficient resource-sucking TIE carrier.
No, there is another.
The same thing occured to me, and I think there are two ways out of it. One, no one ever said that construction on the second deathstar began right after the first one was destroyed. They could have started much earlier, just to have a backup. Also, it's possible that the first one was delayed by unforeseen engineering challenges. No one had ever built such a device before. But once they had made one, they were experienced deathstar builders, and so were able to built the second much faster.
I personally find that the best order to watch them is:
I, II, III.
sic transit gloria mundi
I just found out recently that they're being marketed in chronological, rather than publication, order, and it seemed a bit like Star Wars, indeed. They're prequels, yes, but they read better out-of-order. Like "Pulp Fiction" or "Memento", the order of the story is important.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Never mind, someone else said it a lot better.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Now on to the parent comments...
Life is hard, and the world is cruel
While watching ROTS, as Obi-Wan picks up Anakin's lighsaber--leaving him to burn to death--all I could think of was the ANH quote "your father wanted you to have it when you were old enough" and damn was that that a stretch. Makes the "betrayed and murdered your father" seem pretty reasonble by comparison...
Having shot both weapons I can say that there definitely is a difference between them... in the hands of a properly trained marksman. There is a reason the US trains their infantry so hard. Those guys can shoot. They make good use of the superior accuracy of they M-16/M-4.
Also, the M-16 has a much lighter kick, allowing for faster accurate followup shots than you can get with the AK. Even using three-round-bursts there is less deflection/vibration.
Another major advantage of the smaller lighter round is that the troops can carry far more 5.56 ammunition. The loudest sound in a gun fight is *click*, and he who runs out of ammunition first loses. Sure, you get a bunch of jerks out there with only 15 or 20 rounds in their AKs, but these are not long-lived individuals, generally. The word 'cannonfodder' comes to mind.
And, yes, our third-world adversaries do consider it a victory when one of their illiterate enthusiasts manages to shoot on of our boys/girls (or blows him/her up, more likely), but this has nothing to do with the quality of the American rifle.
I know there was debate about the decreased kill probability when using the smaller round. I think the final outcome was that a wounded enemy was often better than a dead one, and I think this speaks well of Americans generally.
Oops, I just realized that this isn't a gun thread. Sorry. Back to Star Wars.
Yet the designations of the two that we see are C3PO and R2-D2. Never do we find out if C3PO is a model number or a serial number, but the latter seems to be implied. As for R2, It is clearly implied that it is an R2-unit. Meaning model number R2, serial number D2. Even granting that there could be more letters in the galactic alphabet, The population of the republic is so large that our named numbers probably don't do it justice. Those droids have very low numbers indeed. What are the odds that two 'low-number' droids would end up in the hands of a moisture farmer on tatooine? I still remember that time I was driving behind the car with registration number: 7. Those droids are billions of times more rare than that.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
After watching the final fight scene in Episode III between Obi Wan and Anakin, was anyone else reminded of King Arthur's fight with the Black Knight in Monty Python and the Holy Grail? Oh, well. Sith happens.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
The Emporer didn't know that Vader had children - he thought Vader killed him. I think he was being honest there. The identity of the children were hidden, and Padme's funeral showed her still pregnant.
skkkoooonnnggggkkk ptui
It fills me with a fury that can only be compared to that of a fairly angry person.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what's right." -Isaac Asimov
If your contention were correct, Idi Amin would have lead Uganda to world domination while Margaret Thatcher tumbled the UK. Weren't the lessons of the 20th century to the contrary? Is it efficient for the Poliburo to have party members honeycombed through the whole economy, reporting every time someone neglects their duty? Would you take the Commissariat for Food over Wendy's? And doesn't hindsight (The Gipper v. Gorby) show whom to choose in a battle for military might? The Cathedral may work adequately for a campus in Redmond, but The Bazaar is the only realistic model to run a whole nation by.
"Give a man a fish and he will ask for tartar sauce and French fries!"
R2D2 = R. Daneel Olivow?
...
Okay, *THAT* I did not see coming
This applies to the prequels as well, but much more so to the original trilogy. Often, in light of all the action and special effects and so on, people overlook some of the more subtle symbolism that's present in Star Wars. One of the big areas that does this for me is the way light and color are used. Some examples:
In ANH, Obi-Wan is telling Luke about "the old days". At one point, he says, "Oh, yes... I was once a Jedi, like your father." He then leans back, revealing a brightly lit window -- very symbolic.
Han Solo's garb. His shirt is white, the vest he wears over it is black, just like his personality: on the outside, he appears to be a real creep, but on the inside, he does have noble qualities.
Colors in general: Darth Vader and the Imperial officers all wear either black or muted shades of gray; Leia and the rebels wear white or lighter colors. (Although Lucas did mess this up by dressing the storm troopers in white.)
One of my favorites: throughout ROTJ, Luke, formerly dressed all in white, is now dressed entirely in black, symbolic of his upcoming temptation to turn to the dark side. He stays dressed entirely in black, until he fully and openly refuses to turn to the dark side. Shortly after he does this and the emperor starts frying him, a small light-gray panel opens on the front of his tunic, symbolizing his choice to stay with the good side. This panel stays open for the remainder of the film.
Good filmmaking elements that are very subtle and often overlooked, as I said, in all of the "sound and fury".
Vader realizes his hopes of taking over as the new Emperor aren't going to happen because Luke just isn't good enough to pull it off, and he cracks.
When did he realize this, before or after Luke removed his hand and placed him in the same prone position as Anakin placed Dooku? Sure, the Emperor took him down fairly quickly, but that was after Luke threw his Lightsaber away and presented himself defenseless to the Emperor. Well, not defenseless. He had the most powerful weapon in the universe not a yard away from him in the form of his father.
I came away with this. Anakin never had control of his life and never had personal responsibility. He went from a slave on Tatooine to Obi-Wan's padawan. He was always able to use his talent to get him out of the tough spots, but he never learned that his raw talent needed to be tempered by skill and focus. He lost to Dooku in their first battle because he leaned on talent and power. In their second battle, he tells Dooku he has grown powerful not how he has grown more skillfull.
Once he turns to the dark side, he returns to being a slave and he still relys on his power as a crutch. He is Cerebus on a giant chain guarding the doors to the Empire. Anakin fights Obi-wan the same way he fought Dooku. Unless you believe in luck, a clearly less powerful but more skilled warrior won that battle. Anakin is like any young adult. He does not think, he believe's himself to be invincible and he suffers from a monumental case of hubris.
Finally, in that throne room aboard the Deathstar, he makes his first conscious, responsible decision. He looks back on his life and realizes where he went wrong. He remembers the goading by Palaptine that drove him to destroy Dooku. He sees his son at much the same age, who grew up much the same way and had much less training than himself face the same situation and make the same choice. He finally realizes true strength, because his son shows it to him. Why does he return from the dark side of the force? Because he makes the right decision and makes the ultimate sacrifice for that decision. In his final moments, he does save Padme in the form of their son.
Maybe my rose colored glasses need adjusting, but I think that is closer to what the Lucas was thinking. Just my two cents, take it or flush it.
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So, which do you prefer? :)
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1.) If I am in charge, then a dictatorship.
2.) If not, then democracy is fine.
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