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Dell Axim X50 Running Linux

Posted by timothy on from the tempty-tempty dept.

Venture37 writes "the guys at handhelds.org have managed to boot the linux kernel on a Dell Axim X50 handheld, the project is at alpha stages, you can grab a copy of the files from handhelds.org or fisherss.com."

94 of 132 comments (clear)

  1. Advantages and disadvantages of linux on a PDA by guyfromindia · · Score: 4, Informative

    Some may find this article informative.. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/library/l-em bdev.html
    It discusses the various pros and cons of file systems, graphic systems, etc.

    1. Re:Advantages and disadvantages of linux on a PDA by treff89 · · Score: 4, Informative

      As that article explores, Linux on a PDA is very much dependent on what you want to use it for. If you want a miniature computer which can do (most) things an ix86 can, great, go for it - Linux will allow you to compile many, many applications. However, if you just want to use your PDA as a PDA, the operating system already on there is specially created for your hardware and use, and unless you absolutely do not want to use it, there's no point in compounding the amount of time taken to set an appointment. (Although, I hear from my Windows Mobile friends, it's not very efficient at all.) PalmOS takes less taps to make an appointment than WM200x, (1 hard button press and 1 screen tap to be exact.) So basically, one would use Linux for more features, and to correct previous flaws (after all, it is OSS!)

    2. Re:Advantages and disadvantages of linux on a PDA by BlueLightning · · Score: 4, Informative

      Perhaps you have not seen these:

      http://opie.handhelds.org/
      http://gpe.handhelds.org/

      Familiar Linux for iPAQs and other handhelds (presumably the X50 soon) provides images that include Opie and/or GPE by default.

      It might also be pointed out that the Sharp Zaurus runs Linux natively, and manages to be both a useful PDA and a powerful computing platform at the same time, so the two are not mutually exclusive as you seem to imply.

    3. Re:Advantages and disadvantages of linux on a PDA by jelle · · Score: 1

      I've had palmos on a clie, and now have the x50v. The x50v is really nice hardware with the fast cpu, the 2700g, the bluetooth and the wifi. The OS, however sucks badly. Every time when I have used bluetooth to get on the Internet, and want to go back to wifi, I have to go back change/fix network settings, reset the wifi (on/off), etc, a couple of times before the blasted thing will even associate to my wifi router.

      It's has pocketpc-2003, or is it 'windows mobile 2003' whatever. The built-in network connectivity software just plain sucks.

      That, and the pocketpc web browser sucks big time. Not only does it render badly and misses java support, it even doesn't allow multiple windows, let alone tabs.

      Oh, and the email client in the pocketpc is also pretty much useless.

      And the only way to display pdf files is to convert them first using a PC? what where they thinking, people did not get pdf files from the Internet directly or something? Sure, it may not have been on the marketing radar of either Adobe or MS, but it plains sucks for me, the user.

      Linux on the x50v will be an amazing experience compared to that.

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
    4. Re:Advantages and disadvantages of linux on a PDA by treff89 · · Score: 1

      I have a Clie as well (NX80V), and couldn't agree more with your points. It's just so efficient, and the battery life can be increased by underclocking because of the efficiency of the OS. It can do everything! BTW - when a PPC has a decent thumbboard, 1.3+MP camera, big screen, high resolution, high battery life and good connectivity, with a usable OS (that includes Linux, or basically everything but WM2005) let me know and I will purchase it immediately!

  2. Re:to boldly go... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    http://www.freeos.com/articles/3800/

  3. Been there done that... by NZheretic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IBM's Linux Watch enhanced shell with Bluetooth

    1. Re:Been there done that... by poor_boi · · Score: 2, Funny

      Sure that's not one o' them training weights for power walkers?

    2. Re:Been there done that... by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Yea it's the only kind of exercise us geeks get now a days.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
  4. That's fine... by krautcanman · · Score: 2, Funny

    But does it run Lin... i mean Win... i mean OS Xi?


    I know - it's bad. Mod me down.

    1. Re:That's fine... by Zeebs · · Score: 1, Funny

      In korea only soviet old people run OSXi on handhelds.

      --

      Happy Noodle Boy says "F###ing doughnut! Mock me? You fried cyclops!!"
  5. Re:to boldly go... by iamdrscience · · Score: 1

    Yes.

    IBM & Citizen Watch develop Linux-based "WatchPad"
    Watch This Wednesday: the Linux Watch
    Et Cetera

    Why, I'm not exactly sure.

  6. Re:to boldly go... by bobinabottle · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Well it would seem it is the next logical step for this group if they haven't already. Their mission statement of TFA is as follows:
    What is handhelds.org? Our goal is to encourage and facilitate the creation of open source software for use on handheld and wearable computers. We welcome participation and sponsorship by individuals, groups and companies seeking to further this goal. (About handhelds.org)
    By wearable computers this would naturally cover a wristwatch with an IC inside it.
  7. Re:to boldly go... by PsychicX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can also install it on a dead badger.

    TBH though, I don't see the hype. So, it runs Linux, and does absolutely nothing useful. Big freaking deal. Lots of geek points, yes, but minus several million engineer points in the practicality department?

  8. Re:picture by maciejkt · · Score: 1

    Actually that's a m500.

  9. Also Toshiba by espergreen · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is a similar project for Toshiba pdas. http://www.mnementh.co.uk/eseries/

  10. eh, zaurus for me by jnf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After spending over a year both contributing and waiting for the linux port to become useable on my ipaq 2215, I decided to just buy a pda that supported linux natively. I commend these guys for their hard efforts, but really I wanted to be able to program _my stuff_ on it, not spend all my time programming to get a not-so-stable linux port that is only useable 30 seconds to a minute at a time.
    perhaps that axim people will have better luck, i surely hope so. But really if this is what you are looking for you should consider buying one that supports linux natively. Not only will it save you some time but you also get to put your money where your mouth is and support companies that support you.

    1. Re:eh, zaurus for me by koreth · · Score: 2, Funny

      Pfft. I bet you're one of those poseurs who wants to run Linux on your desktop PC and have the sound system just work, too. Who do you think you are, Jamie Zawinski?

  11. Re:to boldly go... by NanoGator · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "TBH though, I don't see the hype. So, it runs Linux, and does absolutely nothing useful. Big freaking deal. Lots of geek points, yes, but minus several million engineer points in the practicality department?"

    Gotta say I concurr. Supposing I did buy an Axim and put Linux on it, what useful stuff could I do with it that I couldn't before? This is a serious question. These days, you can almost affordably buy one of these with a 480 by 640 display, 3d accellerator, and equip it with a 4 gig micro drive. Any real advantage to putting Linux on it?

    --
    "Derp de derp."
  12. Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Deviant · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I have a Dell Axim X30 and I could not be more impressed with MS's latest PDA OS offerings. The unit is cheap, light, fast, stable and with pretty respectable battery life. It has loads of impressive software availible for it. I had a Palm based PDA/Cellphone hybrid for two years and had gotten used to Grafiti - the Transcriber handwriting recognition that lets you just write whole sentances on the screen simply amazing and on an entirely different level. On top of normal note taking and scheduling I can view/edit word documents and excel spreadsheets. I can surf the web including secure online banking sites and check my email with a 802.11b wireless VPN connection. I can watch videos and play music. I can take over PCs using RDC or vnc and connect to them with ssh and ftp. I can read books and manuals in either the Adobe or MS e-book formats. I have never had a problem with any of these things - a testament to how well it has stood up to my extensive use.

    From what I gather from the site Linux is nowhere near there on most, if not all, of these points. For your average user Linux might be there on the desktop, and it is my desktop OS, but it certainly is nowhere near there on the PDA. I enjoy tinkering with my PC OS but when it comes to my PDA it has to just work and it is for getting serious work done quickly. It is the device I turn to when all else fails to get the job done. This is one Linux user that is not going to be running Linux on his PDA. I think it is many years away from being close to functional in the way that I need it to be and the way MS's product is today. I give credit where it is due and MS is due it for their Windows Mobile OS.

    1. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by TelJanin · · Score: 1

      Is that why many companies use Linux as their PDA OS of choice?

    2. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by theblackdeer · · Score: 1

      Mostly agreed. Although I'm very interested in trying out Linux on PDA's just to scratch that goddamn itch, the current version is reasonably sound. I also have an X30, and the wifi, apps, and navigation is pretty sound.

      Cons? Sure. The cheapo speaker blew out on my when I had Beta Player cranking up the tunes. Battery life on wifi is really short. The bluetooth keyboard I got took a pairing, backup, hard reset, restore, pairing, to get it working.

      But in a Microsoft shop, this is a pretty slick device. Syncing with Exchange Activesync or wirelessly to my notebook is flawless; moving 'twixt wifi spots is really smooth too. It works well enough as a media player that I take it for playing music while running (using Beta Player, not Windows Media Player).

      Linux may commoditize windows on servers (and soon desktops), but the price / performance of the X30 is really well done.

      ralphhogaboom

    3. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Mr.+Hankey · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You have a point about Linux for typical PDA use. I've used Linux on PDAs in several incarnations but I'm still most productive with my PalmOS-based Sony Clie. It does everything I want, is easy to use and has been very stable. On the other hand, I think it's great that there is further development with Linux on mobile devices such as this.

      Although most people may not know this, the port of Linux to the iPaq brought forth several nice embedded systems and even commercial products. Fluke for example created a Linux-based wireless network scanner using an iPaq. We use one at work, it's much lighter than a laptop and works with much less configuration. Odds are the device would have been slower to market and probably have had fewer features if the Linux port to iPaq handhelds had not existed.

      This story may not be interesting for everyone here, but to state that a Linux port to the PDA is irrelevent would be short sighted at best. There are many possibilities for a device which can be hacked up and turned into new products, and that's what excites me to see stories like this.

      --
      GPL: Free as in will
    4. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Joseph_Daniel_Zukige · · Score: 1
      why?

      Hmm.

      Ehhhhhht-to ...

      VisualStudio?

    5. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by supachupa · · Score: 1

      Umm.. I have an X30 as well. How is it that you have 2003SE on it? As far as I know, Dell never released the SE upgrade for the X30.

    6. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by HappyDrgn · · Score: 1

      My x30 was shipped with wm2k3se, maybe i bought mine later? version 4.21.1088 (build 14260.2.0.2) according to the about screen. i bought it in february '05 (and have returned it twice so far for malfunctions btw.)

    7. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Karakth · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The Axim X50v has some extremely nice specs which are, unfortunately, completely unused by Windows Mobile 2003 SE. Things like the graphics card, the 600Mhz acceleration, the VGA graphics...All completely wasted under Windows.

    8. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Jacco+de+Leeuw · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is exactly why some people prefer Linux on their PDA: because the vendor does not want to release Windows Mobile updates for that particular model.

      --
      -------
      Warning: Slashdot may contain traces of nuts.
    9. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Mac+Degger · · Score: 1

      WinCe/mobile has PalmOS beat on one thing only; natural handwriting recognition.

      You should know though (apparently having had a treo) that palm supports word/excel better than win mobile does. Formatting, saved files etc. It's a well known irony that palm does better than MS at it's own format.
      All the rest you mention...palm does that too, effortlessly (although why you'd want to read stuff in .lit I really don't know).

      "but when it comes to my PDA it has to just work and it is for getting serious work done quickly."

      So get a palmOS device (or, what I'd want now is a win mobile device with palmOS on it :))! When my friends and I get into the old 'my pda is better than yours' arguments, I do this: we "race" to see who can a)set up an appointment faster b)who can draw an annotated map faster in the app of users choice c)see who can dictate a word faster and d)find a contacts email faster.
      A palmos device wins at all of 'em.

      Oh...and another nice thing is to see which device can play it's mp3's the longest (through headphones, to make it more objective) :)

      And wtf is that 'closing an app doesn't really stop the thread from running' crap which win mobile still pulls? I click close and my damn app better remove itself from memory unless I don't want it to (as is the case for when I run my mp3's when reading)...

      The only things win mobile does right is handwriting recognition, the hardware and slightly easier appwriting. But for basic PDA functionality palmos wins every time.

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
    10. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by kilyerd · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm the founder of a OSS restaurant management software (http://www.myhandyrestaurant.org/) and we're really looking at these linux ports on PDAs, because it would be the best solution for our customers. If we could hack a cheap PDA and install linux, we could create an ad-hoc distribution having only a browser (the application is web-based) and vpn connection autostarting at boot. This would really be fool-proof, plus would save battery power, thanks to wise process administration (unneeded desktop environment and so on are not started). Probably Linux on PDAs is not needed for the wide public, but for industrial or special application it will be the best solution. Bye

    11. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by BenjyD · · Score: 1

      Technically, it's not Palm that supports MS Office formats so well, it's Dataviz's DocumentsToGo, which comes free with most Palms.

      I agree in general, though: Palm devices are still amongst the best general PDA devices.

      (and yes, I do work for Dataviz)

    12. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Felinoid · · Score: 1

      Actually in each example you've given not only do Linux PDAs support it but Linux PDAs far surppass Windows CE in that support.

      However most people who use Windows CE actually need the Microosoft brand name product.
      Most every Windows office application has a Windows CE counterpart. A clone exists for Linux PDAs and a file reader exists for PalmOs but only Windows CE has the offical PDA mini version of the same applications with the same support.

      However this means nothing to a person who runs Linux on the desktop.
      In this case to have this advantage they need to run Linux on the PDA.

      --
      I don't actually exist.
    13. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Felinoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My mother uses a Zaurus in tandum with her PalmOs PDA.
      She dosen't use a desktop.

      She started using a Palm 7 with the intent of using a wireless PDA exclusively for her Internet access.
      She's upgraded a few times.

      Her next planned upgrade is to a PalmOne Treo 650. This PDA/Phone can be used as a wireless modem for a computer. The Zaurus can be that computer.

      The plan is to set up so mom can use her Zaurus when her Treo isn't powerful enough.

      Step two is to build a camra that supports bluetooth. The Linux PDA will act as a server pulling video in and spitting it back out as a video feed.

      --
      I don't actually exist.
    14. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by nxtw · · Score: 1

      All X30s shipped with 2003 Second Edition. Maybe you have an X3?

    15. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by releppes · · Score: 1

      I don't understand the hype with Linux. So you get an extreamly hacked up special version of Linux ported to an otherwise unsupported platform...I think the better path is NetBSD. Not to start a my OS is better than your OS war, but of all the free unixes out there, NetBSD has the best stable port record.

    16. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Deslock · · Score: 1

      I have an X50v with WM2003SE. I love the hardware, but I couldn't be more disappointed with the OS:

      1) It's temperamental. Like Windows on the desktop, it occasionally slows down for no reason, apps stop responding or close, etc. I have to stop and restart drivers (which sometimes means soft-resetting the device). It's much more stable than it was back in the pre-PPC days, but it's still flakey compared to, say, Linux and OS X.

      2) The process for loading applications can be restrictive and convoluted. Ironically, Microsoft's attempt to make this simple (like Palm) is what makes it so painful... the Activesync installer doesn't let you specify what directory to install to (only whether to install to RAM, file-store, or a card). It installs to the root directory of cards, and many application then show those directories in dialog windows when opening files... what makes this worse is you can't specify the directory name and the defualt is non-descriptive and usually so long it crops on the screen.

      Using CABINSTL fixes this *if* you can extract the CAB file and copy it to your device... but that isn't always possible: sometimes it's easily available, sometimes you have to dig through the program files activesync directory (often having to figure out which CAB is the correct one since some installers come with multiple CABs), and sometimes an installer wont let you find the CAB. Also, sometimes the installer is a Windows executable that requires you have a Windows laptop/desktop available. Lastly, heaven forbid you need to reinstall all your apps on a PPC... it's like reinstalling a desktop OS: it takes hours (while Palm takes only minutes)

      3) The OS can be somewhat sluggish. Not nearly as bad as the WinCE devices from 5-8 years ago, but is still not as instantaneous as Palm (well, not counting the awful Lifedrive, which loads apps from hdd... what was Palm thinking?)

      4) Memory management is horrible. I get out of memory errors pretty often (sometimes just from running a few web browsers). I keep my system pretty clean too (close stuff with Wisbar and I don't install apps to RAM).

      5) Web browsing sucks. PIE and all the 3rd party PIE-base browsers have limited java support (I can't even manage my Netgear router with them). Equally annoying is that images are either scaled or quadruple-pixelated, making page formatting on PPC a joke. Netfront is a little better, but last time I check it didn't support VGA properly (dialog windows would show up with fonts so huge that you can't read it all or click on buttons because it renders them off screen).

      6) Office apps suck. Very few features.

      7) Task switching sucks. You need a 3rd party program to move easily between running apps.

      8) Syncing with the computer sucks as Activesync is slow and buggy.

      9) No Mac support for syncing (there are 3rd party solutions, but then you can't install some apps... see #2 above).

      10) Windows media player sucks. It's slow and has limited features (but BETAplayer rocks).

      11) Switching between landscape and portrait is slow (was instant on my old Palm T3).

      12) Windows registry and shared DLLs can mean OS degradation and application conflicts.

      Having written all that, Terminal Services comes in handy now and then. And PPC hardware rocks. I can watch VGA DIVX movies with BETAplayer thanks to the hardware decoder. I can play several impressive games thanks to the GPU. If I run true VGA mode, web browsing is actually decent (but the true-VGA programs have other problems so I don't usually bother).

      And some of the things I complained about can be solved with $100-200 worth of 3rd party software... but the underlying problem with WinCE/PPC/Windows Mobile will still be there: it's based on Win32. This has advantages (for example, it's easy to write applications for) but many of the above disadvantages can't be fixed because of it.

      Microsoft went with Win32 when they first create WinCE back in 1996 in an attempt to

    17. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Deviant · · Score: 1

      There was alot there but let me respond to some of it.

      I was aware that you couldn't sync it with Linux (which I run at home) but not about OSX which I agree is a bit of a bummer for those Macheads out there. Since I usually charge/sync it with my work PC (XP) and MS exchange that hasn't been an issue for me.

      I let all of the apps install to the default location and install into System Memory and I have never had a problem. I use the storage card only for documents/music/videos/backups. I had a few of the issues you mentioned but I installed all my apps and on a freshly cleared device and then backed it up in that state with both ActiveSync and also the Dell included Backup application on the PDA. If I have any weird issues, which has been rare for me, it takes me all of a minute to restore the 25MB virgin system backup image on my storage card to get the PC back to the freshly installed state in the field. I look at this as the same way I treat XP machines problems ala Ghost. Build a nice image of your PDA and keep it handy for a quick fix.

      As for memory management/app switching in the base OS I agree that is less than ideal. The OS doesn't close programs when you close them but instead leaves them open - behavior that I didn't expect. Dell bundles that switcher bar app which pretty much makes up for functionality that MS should have included to allow you to close apps and easily switch between them. Since Dell did that, though, it isn't a problem for me. When I use that to close out apps I am no longer using I don't run out of memory - and I usually have 4-5 apps open at a time.

      As for MS porting their NT kernel/APIs to the PDA that is actually a good thing. Who wants to learn a different set of APIs and tools when they don't have to? Why rewrite something from scratch when you have a known and tested place to start from? If you want a PDA with the kind of functionalily we are using our PDAs for you need a modern OS - early PalmOS didn't even multitask etc. MS was ahead of the curve in realizing these are the things we would want to do. You arn't complaining here that these people are porting the linux kernel and many of it's libs to these devices so this isn't a negative if you don't hate MS's kernel and APIs - which you seem to.

    18. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by jnf · · Score: 1

      hehe, i got a giggle out of this. linuxdevices.com has a list of pda's that support linux natively. However, I must admit that after actually looking for half of these, I had a hard time actually finding anyplace to purchase most of them. The others were just crappy and I ended up with a zaurus. At any rate, here is the list: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT8728350077. html

    19. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by cahiha · · Score: 1

      WinCe/mobile has PalmOS beat on one thing only; natural handwriting recognition.

      Even that depends on what you actually want from your handwriting engine. The PPC handwriting engine is easy to learn and does fairly well on normal text. But it is far from the fastest handwriting input method around, in particular if you need letter accurate input of things like names.

    20. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by cahiha · · Score: 1

      As for MS porting their NT kernel/APIs to the PDA that is actually a good thing. Who wants to learn a different set of APIs and tools when they don't have to?

      But MS did not port the NT kernel or APIs to the PDA. Instead, they created a half-hearted derivative that is a pain to program even for Win32 programmers. That is in addition to the fact that NT was never designed for embedded systems.

      Linux, on the other hand, has the full desktop APIs on PDAs. Furthermore, its POSIX APIs have been used in embedded systems for decades.

      The upshot is that Linux and POSIX scale well, from PDAs to supercomputers, while NT does not scale well, either up or down.

      MS was ahead of the curve in realizing these are the things we would want to do.

      MS wasn't ahead of any curve: they chose to deliver a stripped down kernel and set of APIs for PDAs. Even if they had delivered a full handheld system, they would have been far from the first to do so.

    21. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by tabrnaker · · Score: 1

      Really? Which handhelds has netbsd been ported to?

    22. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      When I read that a lot of companies where using Linux for there PDAs I was think of end user companies not manufactures.
      The Sharps are pretty nice but not available in the US through normal channels.
      I guess I will have to see what Palm does.. I hope they survive and prosper. I would hate to have to buy a CE machine

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    23. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by timeOday · · Score: 1
      I'm still most productive with my PalmOS-based Sony Clie. It does everything I want, is easy to use and has been very stable.
      How can this be? I have the Clie TH55, and the software is very unstable. Even doing a "find" causes the machine to reset. The web browser requires occasional resets. The HP48 emulator I installed locked the thing up so hard it wouldn't reset until the batteries ran dead.

      It's sad, because the TH55 hardware itself is kick-butt. But my next "palm" will be Windows-based.

    24. Re:Windows Mobile 2003 SE is Great - So why? by Mr.+Hankey · · Score: 1

      I have an SJ-33, it's been great. It plays MP3 files off memory sticks, which appear as a hard drive under Linux when the transfer app is running. There's a great free Japanese dictionary app I found on Freshmeat, it even attempts to guess the kanji I'm writing and give the meaning. All the typical PIM apps do what they're supposed to, and kontact syncs fine with it. It comes with the full version of Bejeweled, and has great sound capabilities with most of the games I play on it.

      Most likely the difference is in our useage patterns, although it may also be the version of PalmOS the device runs (4.1 in the case of the SJ-33.) I've never tried to do a find for example, since I tend to know where things are on the PDA. I also haven't run any emulators on the device. I use it as a PIM, Japanese dictionary, and occasionally a game device.

      --
      GPL: Free as in will
  13. Re:to boldly go... by LordSah · · Score: 4, Funny

    Any real advantage to putting Linux on it?

    Keeps girls away.

  14. Re:to boldly go... by kschawel · · Score: 1

    I bought an iPaq so that I could put linux on it, just because I thought it was fun. It came with Windows Mobile 2003 (WinCE2003) and I can honestly say that I do not like WM2003. I am waiting for some issues to be resolved with familiar and my specific model (h5555) and until then I am using this godawful OS that came installed.

    If you want a PDA that Just Works, buy a Palm. I had one before. I wanted to tinker with something that had WiFi (Palms with WiFi are expensive).

    Speaking of WiFi, one of the things that I really HATE about WM2003 is the "Work/Internet" specification on the network card. You need to tell it if you are connecting to your work network or the internet. The only way to connect to Windows shares is by choosing "Work". It will refuse to connect to the internet when you choose work. For some reason the checkbox that says "My work network also connects to the internet" won't stay checked. My home network is set up correctly, why won't it just work like every other WiFi device?

  15. Project Details by Taxilian · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have been working with fisherss on this project (I'm Richard), and I thought I'd post a summary of the status, for any interested. We have a linux kernel booting, but we don't yet have wirless drivers working. USB networking is also in progress. This should go a little faster because the x50 (and x50v) use the same chipset for the wireless network that the ipaq hx4700 does, which is further along in the port. We hope to soon have a graphical interface up, and I will be trying to load the kernel on my x50 just as soon as I can get the files from Fisherss (I've been gone for a few days). It will probably be 6 months or so before linux is really usable on this device, and it could be longer before we can completely remove windows ce from the device. Anyone with low level distribution, drivers, and/or kernel experience who is interested in contributing to the project, we could definitely use your help! We learn quickly, but this is new to us... we just want to get past the limitations imposed by windows ce! =]

    1. Re:Project Details by Mac+Degger · · Score: 1

      I've heard/seen pics that the palm t3's and later ipaq ppc's (iirc) have near identical hardware (at least in terms of circuitboard/cpu). What are the chances of getting this project working on a t3?

      --
      -- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
    2. Re:Project Details by Taxilian · · Score: 1

      it is certainly possible. the t3 uses an ARM processor (not sure which one exactly) and the linux kernel has been ported to arm. The first thing you'd have to do is write a palm program that can probe hardware for you and return the values. I think the t3 has a serial port on it, so that would be a good way to send the output.

      The next thing you'd need to do is create a bootloader that would run as a palm program, reset the cpu (mmu, interrupts, etc), load the kernel into ram, and start executing it.

      The main challenge would be that ideally you'd want to run linux off the SD card and use all the ram as, well, RAM. It could be done, and there has been some discussion on it, but writing palm apps is such a pain that I don't think anyone has done it yet. If anyone is serious about it, they can get some suggestions from irc.freenode.net #handhelds.org where many people working on ports to pocketpcs hang out.

    3. Re:Project Details by jelle · · Score: 1

      I'd just like to say that you guys made great progress! Keep up the good work!

      About some of these pda's, I read about USB host support. Do you think the x50/x50v can be USB hosts? That would be a really nice feature with a usb harddisk... especially with the intel 2700g and some appropriate xvmc support, or a special version of mplayer or something.

      Jelle.

      --
      --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  16. Haskell on Handheld Linux Machines by exp(pi*sqrt(163)) · · Score: 1

    What is the lowest cost handheld device on which I could do Haskell development? Presumably the most sensible thing would be to try a Linux device as Haskell might be tricky to build for any other handheld OS. Would this device be a good option?

    --
    Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
  17. How to get Linux on any PPC by Prophetic_Truth · · Score: 1

    PocketPutty

    --
    time is a perception of a being's consciousness
    time is your 6th sense, the wierd ones are 7+
  18. Re:to boldly go... by DualG5GUNZ · · Score: 1

    The satisfaction gained from knowing I wouldn't be running Microsoft products would enhance my productivity. (speaking of which--I use a Palm).

    --
    "I'm a philosophy major. That means I can think deep thoughts about being unemployed." -- Bruce Lee
  19. Re:to boldly go... by MoralHazard · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You want practical? It's a blue-sky open source development project, you nitwit. The potential applications are legion. But let me give you a run-down of several of the uses to which I've put my own HP Ipaq (running Linux from handhelds.org!):

    1) Mobile FULL-FEATURED WiFi scanner and auditing kit. Run Kismet, Airsnort, and a lot of other Linux-only tools (any Windows equivalents cost $$$ and have stripped-down handheld versions) for serious portable work. 100x easier than carting a laptop around. Break WEP keys, perform breakin demos, and hunt down rogue APs with a pocket-sized monster.

    2) During the NYC blackout, my ISP was still up and laptops had juice, but my routers ran down the UPS batteries in about 30 minutes. Jury-rigging a car battery, some DC-DC conversion stuff, and an Ipaq w/ PCMCIA sleeve holding 2x PCMCIA network adapters = an instant router that stayed up, routing 1.5 Mbps DSL to five users, for 12 hours. Do you know how much a 12-hour UPS costs??

    3) Since the Ipaq (like the Axim) has a microphone and WiFi, it makes a killer wireless microphone. Turn on a recording app, stream the data via wireless to a laptop somewhere nearby, and you've got at least an hour of recording time on batteries alone. Makes an excellent conference-room bug, for checking up on meetings that you can't attend or negotiations that you shouldn't know about--and you record all day if you plug your Ipaq in to charge and then "forget" about it.

    4) Portable streaming MP3 player. I've got kerberos-protected NFS shares full of music, and I can stream music out of those shares from anywhere I can reach my APs.

    The point is that the sky's the limit with Linux--whatever you can think up, within the limits of RAM and battery life (which are pretty substantial!) is yours to do.

  20. Re:picture by Nirvelli · · Score: 2, Informative

    Here be a picture:
    Original
    Mirror 1
    Mirror 2

  21. Re:to boldly go... by nofx_3 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    your # makes me think it could also make a decent voip phone. Can it run skype (IIRC skype requires a full xserver and qt3)?

    -kaplanfx

    --
    Visualize Whirled Peas
  22. Re:to boldly go... by nihilogos · · Score: 1

    So, it runs Linux, and does absolutely nothing useful. Big freaking deal

    Sheesh. Kids nowadays. What's the world coming to?

    --
    :wq
  23. As an X30, X30H and iPaq (HP) owner by tod_miller · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I am very keen to remove my reliance on the poor (yet just usable) tools. The RAPI, the cecopy etc was a bitch to get a real development cycle going, using Java (superwaba.com.br).

    As a veteran of 3 wireless applications that link to a remote interface I have seen a great deal of potential in the handheld paradigm, there was a slashdot link about a many to many pradigm in computing screens, where angles dictate what you saw, well my idea if different handhelds have differnet views on a computer system, like thin clients.

    Right now the ipaq is an up and coming bluetooth tv remote control, which shows the tv guide on the ipaq, and allows you to email using the qwerty keyboard, or web surf (built in apps).

    Right now it is a bad set of programs, and hacks, with linux opening up the system, I can make customised system designed for this.

    Imagine, watching seinfeld on xvid through your RF link to you 42" screen, from your PC, but then watching satellite channels on yoru handheld, while you check for latest news on an earthquake, and then at a push of a button send the image you are seeing to the tv screen.

    Yes, it is already here, but not working nicely.

    Wray for linux!

    --
    #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
  24. H1940 also on this list by RedPhoenix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The IPAQ H1940/H1930 has also had some recent progress - Opie/GPE can now be booted via an NFS-mouted root, or from a ext2 loopback filesystem, mounted on a FAT16 SD card. Still a little work to be done, to replace the flash with a boot image though.

    H1940/30's are pretty cheap 2nd hand these days, and would make a reasonable linux handheld.

    Red.

  25. Re:to boldly go... by RedPhoenix · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For some selected applications, sure.
    For the average user? Probably not.

    A couple of possibilities:
    * Getting openvpn to run, so that you can connect back to a linux gateway, whilst on the road.
    * Being able to share contact/appointment data between evolution and the handheld (multisync/synce is a bit touchy at the moment).
    * Being able to install applications without needing a windows box hanging around.
    * Wireless LAN sniffing for security evaluations (kismet, etc).
    * Coding on the road (if you're VERY desperate...)
    * Having control over your data, not having it stored in some wierd proprietary format, and potentially being able to import the stuff back into your linux box.
    * Custom applications (warehouse floor, inventory control, etc.) may be easier to code in some cases.

    Red.

  26. Just became service unavailable by tod_miller · · Score: 3, Informative
    Fisherss' home page Last update: 6-14-2005 News: 6-14-2005 First Linux booting on DELL X50. We finally succedeed. The serial output of this alpha kernel version is available here. For this testing kernel, you can get output through serial cable only. After the penguin appeared for about 20 seconds, you can see some kernel mssages at the LCD (that means the framebuffer driver works), but the font is too small, so they can't be recognised. and then it stops there. That's not a problem, making GUI work is more and more easier than making kernel work :) I just tested it one my x50 (416) machine, so I don't know if it will also works on x50 (512) or x50v. If you have tested it, please tell me :P The necessary files can be downloaded here: haret.exe zImagex30s default.txt initrd NOTE: This kernel version is just for debugging, you can't see GUI at this time . And it will destroy all your data in ram, so make sure you have backed up you data. Make a copy of your rom image is also recommended, it is safe on my machine, but I am not so sure if it will be on yours.
    2005-4-21

    Successfully got serial kernel output.

    sting 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 Preloader physical/virtual address: ab69b000 Physical initrd address: a0408000 Goodbye cruel world ... sting 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 Preloader physical/virtual address: ab667000 Physical initrd address: a0408000 Goodbye cruel world ... Testing 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 sting 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 Preloader physical/virtual address: ab671000 Physical initrd address: a0408000 Goodbye cruel world .sting 123 Physical kernel address: a0008000 Preloader physical/virtual address: ab5ef000 Physical initrd address: a0408000 Goodbye cruel world
    2005-4-19 Great news, I have done my selfmade serial cable , it works fine. So the following steps should be quick. Thank you my friend reactos , thanks for your great help. After clean up my hundreds of cables, I will post the total debug information from serial port and complete my personal home page. And....... maybe I will post the practical serial cable making method and the images. PS: Getting past junk character filter was a bitch
    --
    #hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
  27. Linux on handhelds is rock solid and widely used by cahiha · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I enjoy tinkering with my PC OS but when it comes to my PDA it has to just work and it is for getting serious work done quickly. It is the device I turn to when all else fails to get the job done.

    There are dozens of handheld devices with Linux pre-installed and supported (often in innovative form factors and applications). There is nothing to tinker: they turn on and are rock solid. They also have lots of software available for them.

    Handhelds.org is an effort to bring Linux to unsupported devices, in addition to the supported devices. Why do people do that? Because they can and because they like to have an even broader range of hardware available to them. Generally, installing Linux on unsupported devices involves some effort, but in my experience, the end result is as solid as it is on supported devices.

  28. Wonderful... by shmlco · · Score: 1, Funny

    Wonderful, a PDA that does... nothing at all. I suppose I could always amuse myself doing directory listings...

    --
    Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
  29. Re:to boldly go... by q.kontinuum · · Score: 1
    Any real advantage to putting Linux on it?


    Also I don't know this specific device, in principle I see some advantage to use Linux on a handheld. A friend of mine has a LAMP installed on his handheld, with some scripts to organize his schedules, addresses, whatever. The advanage compared to other organizers is the increased availability of your data: You can easily export it to any format you need without being locked in some proprietary applications.

    --
    Trolling is a art!
  30. Easy to answer by gilesjuk · · Score: 1

    Basically with Linux on your phone you can recompile any app for Linux to run on the PDA. The cross compatibility is better than with Windows and Window Mobile.

    From what I've seen the GUI libraries are slimmed versions of QT and GTK.

    1. Re:Easy to answer by supersocialist · · Score: 1

      Running Nethack on a Zaurus with a "real keyboard" v. running the PocketPC port with the on-screen pad is reason enough.

  31. The Asus port is even more succesful by mu22le · · Score: 2, Informative

    but noone wrote a post on /. to inform the masses...
    too bad but it's probably because develope do not want to many lusers asking questions arount untill things get a little more stable...

  32. Re:to boldly go... by daikokatana · · Score: 1
    A friend of mine has a LAMP installed on his handheld

    Why doesn't he just turn on the backlight?

    --
    http://jcsnippets.atspace.com/ - a collection of Java & C# snippets
  33. Re:to boldly go... by leecn · · Score: 1

    You could do lots of cool stuff running linux on one of these

    • run an operating system that you are comfortable with
    • run a kannel SMS server
    • run an ssh server
    • use sshfs to access your remote files securely as if they were local
    • run a webserver, not sure if you can do this over gprs but I think itd be cool to let your family/friends see where you are at any time.
    • use ethereal, or kismet (with GPS too) and nmap to search for / scan networks

    Basically you can do (obviously) all the things you can do on linux that you cant do on windows, and (eventually when it is set up and stable) not have the thing crash, which I think is cool!

  34. Re:to boldly go... by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

    Liberty to write one's thoughts is what makes slashdot what it is today.

    --
    Write boring code, not shiny code!
  35. Re:to boldly go... by wertarbyte · · Score: 1

    Linux on your PDA is a great way to take your favorite applications with you. I use gpsdrive on my iPAQ H5450, many other GTK-Applications do run under GPE, and it's pretty cool to use your handheld device in your universities WLAN/VPN (hello vpnc) and browse Wikipedia on your palm. I also use SSH to get home and browse my E-Mail via mutt.

    I don't see why I should run another OS than Linux on my PDA, the user interface is quite nice, I can get a wide variety of applications, and I have the possiblity to influence the behaviour of my device in many ways. Cool stuff.

    --
    Life is just nature's way of keeping meat fresh.
  36. Re:to boldly go... by Diakoneo · · Score: 1

    But again - the hardware isn't the limitation. Aside from #2, wouldn't it be easier to write these apps in PalmOS or CE than to shoehorn in an OS and start modifying all the apps to work on the PDA?
    *Disclaimer* I am not a PDA developer, I have no idea how tough it is to program for them.

    --
    "Well..here I am..." - Jubal Early
  37. Re:to boldly go... by vhogemann · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Once the port gets done you'll be able to use Opie or GPE with it.

    Opie is the OpenSource fork of Qtopia, the same interface that powers the Sharp Zaurus. It's quite usable, and I installed it on my iPaq 3970 without any problems. As a matter of fact, handwriting recgnition is better than WindowsCE one.

    Check those screenshots http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/

    GPE is a GTK+2 based enviroment for handhelds, is a little bit cruder than Opie, but it uses a X server instead of the frame buffer, so it's easier to port software to it. There's already stuff like SNES9x, Quake and Doom running on it!

    Again, some screenshots http://handhelds.org/~gpe/gallery/

    Also, one may guess that Nokia's Maemo could get ported to it.

    So, there's lot of usefull things to do with it once the port is stable.

    --
    ---- You know how some doctors have the Messiah complex - they need to save the world? You've got the "Rubik's" complex
  38. Re:to boldly go... palm OS linux based ! by free2 · · Score: 1

    the next palm OS will be based on Linux and will allow you to run linux apps without using the palmOS API

    So yes, this is important to be able to run all theses apps !

  39. Re:Linux on handhelds is rock solid and widely use by cahiha · · Score: 2, Informative

    The entire Zaurus PDA line, the line of TomTom Navigators (probably the best navigation systems you can buy), a number of high-end MP3 and media players, and half a dozen cell phones. And the next generation of Palm will be based on Linux as well.

  40. Re:to boldly go... by David+Horn · · Score: 1

    I mean, I know this is Slashdot, but please tell me that you can bear to be without the internet for 12 hours?

    You could have gone outside (yeah, sunlight won't actually melt you) or read a book, or in the worst case, you must have saved some porn on the laptop... :P

    --
    PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
  41. Re:to boldly go... by smithcl8 · · Score: 1

    So all of you are saying that running these things would actually be of some use? BS..... All the Palm/PocketPC was designed for was to be a planner, calendar, email gadget, not a fully functioning PC. No matter how much you try, you will never replace a fully functioning system on anything with a tiny PDA screen. Sure, MacGyver might find a million ways to use it, but, as for me, I'll use it for its designed purpose.

  42. Re:to boldly go... by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

    How could you not mention GNU/Emacs?
    Now, if we can just get Gentoo to target this...

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  43. Re:to boldly go... by swillden · · Score: 1

    A friend of mine has a LAMP installed on his handheld

    What's a LAMP?

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  44. Re:to boldly go... by GIL_Dude · · Score: 1

    Absolutely right - it's from either the "too much time on our hands" or the "Who cares" department...

  45. Please Linux on PDA cant.... by falltime · · Score: 1

    compete with Pocket PC (yet) for multi-function usability. Okay so in a typical day I use my IPAQ 2215 to Play music -GSPlayer Watch TV and Movies - Betaplayer Read newspapers and magazines - iSiloX Driving Directions - GPS navigation Bluetooth receiver w/ TomTom Play Games -Age of Empires Get restaurant review - Zagats to go Show pictures of my Daughter - Image Viewer Check TV listings - PTVL Draw rough floorplans in field for work - Pocket Painter Track appointments & Contacts - Agenda Fusion and if neccessary I can use the wireless card to check email or get on the net and control my desktop remotley and even use Skype. Be honest their is no Linux setup that can do all these tasks easily.

  46. Re:to boldly go... by leecn · · Score: 1
    So all of you are saying that running these things would actually be of some use? BS

    Well it would be of use to me, I couldn't care less if it wouldn't be of use to you, but it makes you look dumb to call it bullshit considering that I, and a bunch of other people have legitimate uses for it.

    as for me, I'll use it for its designed purpose

    Thats great for you, it shouldn't bother you that other people will want to use it for other stuff though.

  47. Re:to boldly go... by ubuntu · · Score: 1

    Any real advantage to putting Linux on it?

    So it won't SUCK?

  48. Homepage moved!! by Andor666 · · Score: 1

    Just now:
    http://narcotize.com/~axim

    In some hours, when the dns is ready:
    http://axim.narcotize.com/

  49. Re:to boldly go... by q.kontinuum · · Score: 1
    What's a LAMP


    A LAMP is a very commen combination of Linux, Apache (Web-Server), MySQL and PHP.

    Some PHP-skripts implement the required functions to access the SQL database and to format the output as HTML, apache opens a port so any web-browser can be used to display the UI and to access the skript. Not particular useful on a PDA, but flexible because you can copy the skript to your PC at home and access the skript (and therefore Your data) through the Internet. (Of course you will probably need to some password protection for this case.)

    The advantage is that you have one set of skripts which can be used on Your PDA or PC or whatever, the data s available (and easy to transfere) in an SQL database, interfaces to access the data for whatever purpose are available for nearly all relevant languages.

    --
    Trolling is a art!
  50. Re:to boldly go... by YouCanCallMeAl · · Score: 1

    Linux Apache MySQL PHP Standard configuration for basic webserver.

  51. Re:to boldly go... by Yaruar · · Score: 1

    Really *looks behind him* then that isn't actually custom software i'm running behind me on windows CE on Ipaq 4700's running as music sample stations and scanning devices.

    --
    Working for the (other) man
  52. Re:why this sad obsession with installing linux? by chip_0 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Come on, half the world's inventions would have been absent if geeks hadn't played about with new toys/ideas. There may not be any practical uses of it yet, but they may just come about later. Remember that if linux was just restricted to the platform it was originally designed for, there would be no linux for the PowerPC, or for the hundreds of odd handhld devices, or for xyz ... zzz.

  53. Re:to boldly go... by erveek · · Score: 1

    TBH though, I don't see the hype. So, it runs Linux, and does absolutely nothing useful. Big freaking deal. Lots of geek points, yes, but minus several million engineer points in the practicality department?

    It's easier to carry than a dead badger.

    TBH though, it won't ever do anything on a pda, and people will never program for the pda incarnation...

    Wait for it...

    If it doesn't actually *run* on the pda first.
    If lack of ported apps is a rationale for not getting the OS to run on new hardware, how would OSes ever get ported?

    --
    -- This void intentionally left null.
  54. Re:to boldly go... by MoralHazard · · Score: 1

    Hahaha, funny. Whether you can be without the Internet for 12 hours depends on how much money you're willing to lose by letting your users stay down. I don't like to lose money.

  55. Re:to boldly go... by smittyoneeach · · Score: 1

    Repaint, thou thinner! :)
    I would've friended you, but I've just discovered a 400-friend limit or something. Sorry.

    --
    Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
  56. Re:to boldly go... by David+Horn · · Score: 1

    So you were hosting a website[s] on a 1.5mbps DSL line? Pull the other one.

    --
    PocketGamer.org - For the gamer on the go!
  57. Re:to boldly go... by jelle · · Score: 1

    "Do you know how much a 12-hour UPS costs??"

    Actually, yes, $6k and a couple of bottles of hydrogen.

    --
    --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.
  58. Re:to boldly go... by jelle · · Score: 1

    I tried the pocketpc version of sjphone on it with stanaphone and freeworlddialup, and that worked fine (after spending most time getting the crappy pocketpc wifi software to work again).

    Of course, it will be much better geek value when I can run a full pabx on it (asterisk...).

    --
    --- Hindsight is 20/20, but walking backwards is not the answer.