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Copyright Law Protection for Employees?
Copyright Fringement asks: "I've been constantly asked by my employer to install software (Office, XP, etc) on unauthorized computers, as well as duplicate copyrighted material (video, CD's) en masse. I know that there are watchdog agencies that look out for this kind of stuff, and it's setting my employer (or me) up for serious fines and Other Bad Things(tm), but is there a way to protect myself from said Bad Things (tm)? I've explained till I'm blue in the face, but the bosses always: get a glazed look; or give some nonsense explanation. I like my job, but I'm not taking the fall for these guys. What's a self respecting Slashdot reader to do?"
>> "What would the robut do? Frame someone!"
There is no protection just because you are an employee following orders. Technically, you and all of your supervisors all the way up to the president of the company, and the company itself, are individually and collectively guilty of copyright infringement, even if you don't know it is going on. If you *do* know then you are not only guilty, but willfully in violation. In either case, all of you can be sued individually.
Speculating here, in practice the copyright holder would probably attempt to sue anyone with the ability to pay (which may still include you, although for a smaller amount than the company might be sued for). And in front of a jury you might get off using the victim defense (i.e. if you could convince the jury that you were afraid of losing your job, etc.). You'd probably still be found guilty but you might escape a fine (at least in a civil suit). At the very least you should document each time you are told to install an illegal copy f something (who, when, what, where, and your protest to your supervisor at the time). Sounds like that could be a full time chore in your case.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
...would be a good start. At least then you can show that you told your boss why it shouldn't be done and that he told you to do it anyway.
- AMW
Buy the software and give them the bill.
Go to http://www.nopiracy.com/
And fill out the form.
Yeah, right... Maybe if there was a bounty. Is there a bounty? Hmmmm
Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are subtle, and quick to anger.
Talk to one of these so-called watchdog groups and offer testimony in exchange for diplomatic immunity and a tidy sum (because you risk losing your job).
Machiavellian? Maybe. Remember the alternative: participating in blatant ethics violations that you know are wrong but decide to do anyway.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Get it in writing that they are asking you to do it ... then refuse ... and sue them when they fire you.
1) Talk to your corporate counsel. If they're not idiots (which isn't a given), they'll realize you're doing them a favor.
2) Don't sweat it. This is between you and your conscience. You may theoretically be liable for these violations, but nobody will be coming after you personally, especially if you have a paper trail covering your ass and super-especially if you've gone to your lawyers.
But, yeah, stuff liek this sucks, especially in a small company.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
Fake a letter email from MS telling them to stop! I'm sure you can make the email look like it came from MS's progrom that sniffs out cheats... PUT THE FEAR of litigation in them!
Get them to give you those orders in writing . Then explain to them why you won't do it in writing . Take both documents to their corporate lawyers and keep a copy at home for safe keeping. Now you not only have a paper trail of the situation to protect yourself should the company get audited, you have ammo against them should they try to fire you for not following orders.
What they're asking you to do is violate copyright, and it's just plain wrong. Should you comply, you're opening yourself up to a world of hurt. If the company gets nailed you will be hung out to dry. You would be the one doing the copying and unauthorized installs, not management. The managers can claim they didn't know you were doing it and are shocked -- shocked! that you would to such a thing.
Just beacuse it's a crime with a lesser chance of getting caught doesn't change the nature of the act. (Not that the spy and hooker job wouldn't be hella awesome...) You refuse to do it, or you break the law. You don't isolate yourself from responsibility for your commission of a criminal act.
- Change your values to match theirs, or
- Find a place that shares the same values.
They will not change, and you cannot change them.This is not a bad thing, per se. It just means you and they have different values. Would you work at a lab where they routinely sprayed oven cleaner in Rabbits' eyes (even if you weren't the sprayer)? What about at a place that dumped chemicals into streams (even if you weren't the dumper)? How about a place that forced some employees to work in very unsafe conditions (even if you didn't work in unsafe conditions)?
We all have a choice. You can either stay or go; being the "whistleblower" means that you will be leaving almost immediately as you take your parting shot on the way out.
Yeah, right.
Report them. You might get up to $50K reward. Let us know how much you really get.
http://www.siia.net/piracy/report.asp
after this ask /., its not surprising we get stories like this: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/06/24/051 7229&tid=185&tid=98&tid=218
how is the general public supposed to find copyright infringment wrong when companies are doing it, and your boss is telling you to do it...
What's a self respecting Slashdot reader to do?
/. ?
But why is anyone with self respect reading
Fortunately small in this case. My very inexpert opinion is that an employee who does something illegal at his bosses request has no more legal coverage than if he acted at his own initiative. But the chances of your being prosecuted or sued are very small -- in past situations like yours, the IP police have gone after the company, not the individual employees. Of course there's no guarantee that they'll always do this.
The question you should be asking is "What do I do?" There's no simple answer there. You say you like your job, but you're also concerned about the legal risks you're running. You have to weigh one against the other. And this is something you just have to do for yourself. You're the one at risk of unemployment and/or legal peril. Only you can decide how important all the factors are.
It's certainly not fair that your bosses have put you in this position. But that's the kind of shit that we all have to deal with.
If you're determined to put an end to this situation, there are various outs -- all of which put your job at risk.
- Simply refuse to make any more pirate installations.
- Narc on your company to the IP police.
- Find somebody in the company bureaucracy who sees things your way. The legal department would probably not be happy to know that managers are putting the company at risk this way. The HR department might also be helpful.
Legally, your bosses can't retaliate against you for doing any of the above. Doesn't mean they won't, or that they won't get away with it.Hi, my name's Bob S. Arrow. You can call me BSA for short. I can help you out of your situation! Just give me a call at home, my number is 1-888-667-4722 (It's pure coincidence that my phone number spells NO-PIRACY) and give me your name, place of employment, their phone number, address, and what software they're asking you to copy and I'll help you out in not time! Pay no attention to the swarm of lawyerbots and accountants swooping through your office windows...
jX [ Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler. - Einstein ]
call the bsa anonymously.
I was in pritty much the same situation, but this time it was local goverment, and not only that but they'd been caught with it before. New IT manager, new mistakes. He ordered everyone around to "bend the rules, and we'll fix it later". but they never got round to it.
Problem was he started getting shirty about my personal blog when i made a joke about one of the councillors in the area. So much so i ended up resigning. A quick talk with the BSA and now i hear that idiot is also out of a job.
While i've technically done a "Good Thing"(tm) i still feel a bit evil as my actions generally cause another person to loose his job.
While being a snitch is the best way to fuck someone over, make sure you have the heart to commit fully to your actions.
"What do you mean you have no ice? Do you expect me to drink this coffee hot?" - Random Customer, Clerks
Report them to the BSA.
/.'er, but if you're a business, and you can't afford the software license, then use something else. Don't copy it. It's not like there aren't GPL'ed software for most needs.
They'll come in, do an audit, fine the beezubus out of them, and give you a cut.
Then take that money as a severance package and get a job with some folks who aren't complete kneebiters.
I dislike the BSA as much as the next
-EvilMagnus
Tell them you got a phone call from Microsoft asking you why there are two copies of the program using the same account number. You know, kind of like what this guy did.
I've hit Karma 50 and gotten a Score:5, Troll... I win!
There's alot of paranoia going around, huh? Yeah, if you knowingly break the law under company orders, you're still breaking the law, but criminal charges for something like this are generally unlikely. In cases like this, businesses are usually held responsible...and the business will look for an employee scapegoat. At this point, I should probably get the IANAL out of the way...so IANAL.
Here's what I'd do, send a written meno to your boss and his/her boss. Make sure that they get it, and make sure that you save a copy for yourself. In the memo, make it clear that you are unsure of the legality of what you are doing, but you will move forward on their orders under the assumption that the manager who assigned you to do the work obtained the proper licenses (list their name). Also note your objection to this in the case that the proper licenses are not in place. This will take care of the CYA part. Now, the burden is on them.
Don't call the BSA if you still want to work there. Those guys are dicks, and they'll surely audit your company, and you will be the guy doing all the work. It will make your life very difficult. You will have to prove that you purchased every license for every piece of BSA software on every machine in your company. It's a sucky process, and in the end, the BSA typically waive any charges if your company buys all of their missing licenses and promises not to screw up again. To complicate matters, your company will have a pretty good idea that you called the BSA on them (since you've already raised a small stink).
On the other hand, if you're really pissed that they put you in that position in the first place...don't install the software and find another job. I still wouldn't call the BSA on them, because I've got a thing about not burning bridges (and again, they'll probably put two and two together to have an idea that it was you who blew the whistle). I'm sure that they'll eventually get theirs without your intervention.
-Turkey
While i've technically done a "Good Thing"(tm) i still feel a bit evil as my actions generally cause another person to loose his job.
No, his actions caused him to lose his job. Had he behaved ethically and responsibly, he would still have his job. He asked for it, he got it (Toyota).
Reach around behind you, get a firm grip on the stick lodged up your ass, and pull.
Your best defense is to anonymously report them to the BSA and the FBI, and to demand from each of those organizations a confirmation code that you can use to identify yourself as the informer in court, should you ever be faced with criminal prosecution or a similarly damaging civil judgement. There's no reason to sacrifice your job because your employer is breaking the law.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Tell the Powers That Be that you're afraid that some disgruntled employee might turn them in. You like your job, so that's not gonna be you, and make sure they can see that. But it's a very real danger and you're trying to look out for the company. That's the message to bring them.
With that said (and especially if they still brush you off), you might want to consider just how much you like that job. If the company's asking you to do something unlawful for which you'd have take some of the blame, that's not exactly a company that cares about its people, y'know? I used to be "the PC guy" for a regional retailer that populated its entire corporate office with a single license each for Lotus 123 and WordPerfect. I'd include software in the purchase req. for a new PC, and one of the VPs would say "We already have that." (I finally persuaded them to start buying more licenses... to get more manuals.) Stupid stupid rat creatures. That was a warning sign, and I'm glad I got out when I did (before they imploded from executive incompetence).
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
The last time I was in a similar situation, it wasn't as much about the legality of my action but the safety of employees and customers that drove me to tell an officer of my company that I would not be able to follow his instructions. That was a union job and I had seniority. I knew that the union would back me up. Pissed them off but they weren't able to fire me.
My advice: organize.
Forget about your job. The company is dead, and therefore your job is dead. They just don't know it yet.
There are whistle blower laws in place to protect you, but you better be working with the police if you want to apply them. (This may be a civil matter where they don't apply)
Update your resume tonight. The only reason you wouldn't take a new job (even for less money) is if you were collecting evidence, even then you should ask them what you should do.
Contact every piracy organization you can find, and ask their advice. Insist of getting everything in writing.
Get a lawyer. 1 hour with the right lawyer can easily be worth the cost. (You only need 15 minutes of their time, the rest is time for them to research the laws that apply)
I'd tell you to sell your stock, but that would be considered trading on insider information, so I'm not sure if you are safe to do so.
Most important, consider your current company bankrupt - they will be soon anyway.
I don't know if it's this way in all states, but I've been told that it is impossible to make a legal contract to commit an illegal act. So, you maintain personal responsibility for breaking the law and cannot hide behind loyalty to your company or contractual obligation because you cannot be compelled into action by any prior agreement.
Everyone that has posted has an opinion, Some of them make more sense than others, but none of us are lawyers. The best thing for you to do is to get advice from an attorney. NOW! Before a disgruntled employee other than you calls the BSA or other agency.
I'm a happy pessimist. I expect and prepare for the worst, when it doesn't happen I am pleasantly surprised.
Seriously, find another position. In a similar position I wound up paying a 10,000 dollar fine and spending jail time plus 2 years on probation .. eventually my record was cleared but the years of struggle were not worth it.
I would tell your boss that it just takes one disgruntled employee to make an anonymous call to the BSA. If they tip them off that there is illegal software, they can show up for an audit. Tell him that they could be fined $10,000 for each violation and all it would take would be an anonymous phonecall.
I like to mention the disgruntled employee thing, because it puts things into terms they can understand.
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. It's the only thing that ever has.
You need to bear in mind that copying more than 10 copies of a piece of software, worth more than $2,500 total, is a felony if it is done (a) deliberately and (b) with intent to violate copyrights.
The courts would have no trouble at all proving that you deliberately made the copies, knew you were violating copyright, and hence did it deliberately.
They would also have no problem proving that it was done for commercial gain, since it was clearly saving the company money. Hence, you would personally be liable for not just a huge fine, but also a term of up to 5 years in federal prison.
As someone else has already pointed out, your boss ordering you to do something illegal does not remove your liability under law. Doesn't matter if you have your orders in writing, you are still expected to obey the law or face the consequences.
Even if you don't report the company, sooner or later someone at Microsoft will notice that a company with N employees only has 1 licensed copy of Windows, and they'll ask questions. They've gone after public schools and charities, damn right they'll go after a profit-making company without hesitation.
So, the real question you should be asking yourself is: do you love your job so much that you are willing to risk an ass-pounding in prison to keep it for a while? Personally, I wouldn't take that risk.
That's the selfish argument. Now the altruistic argument.
By shielding the company from the true costs of proprietary software, you are aiding Microsoft. If your bosses had the choice of paying for Office or using OpenOffice, they might make a smart decision based on the actual merits of the products. Right now, you are assisting Microsoft in maintaining their monopoly.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
Probably start visiting another site, as we don't take kindly to no rootin tootin "self respectin'" folks around here =P
e.
Build Your Own PVR/HTPC news, reviews, &
Before you can figure out what to do, you should decide whether it's worth your job. If you report them, and they find out, they'll certainly start looking for an excuse to fire you. If you simply refuse, they'll probably HAVE an excuse to fire you.
Personally, I would report them, and hope like hell that they never found out it was me. I'd also start looking for a new job.
Before going that route, though, there are a few things you could try.
- Put it in writing. Filing a formal protest with your supervisor is a good first step. If you can give them dollar amounts for the fines for each piece of software, they might respect it.
- Offer alternatives. Look around for the best price on each piece of software, look for free/cheap alternatives, find ways to get licenses that let you do what you need to but won't cost as much. This will (hopefully) show the boss that you're not just saying "This can't be done," but trying to work to find a better alternative.
- If your supervisor has a boss, you could try discussing it with them. My experience has been that, in most companies, there's someone somewhere along the chain of command who understands that legal trouble is a Bad Thing, and can order their underlings to obey the law, or at least be less obvious in breaking it.
- If all else fails, I suggest leaving the company. If they're willing to break one set of laws, they're liable to be willing to break others. Once you know they're unreliable, you should start looking for ways to get out. Yes, I've done this. Yes, being unemployed sucks. The fact is, you can usually find SOME other job, and it's better than getting caught up in the wreck when the copyright holders catch up to your current company. And once you're gone? Report the suckers.
Congrats go out to the BSA for submitting a fake "question" to Slashdot in order to get "free" coverage. I find it suspect that just days after a posting on slashdot about Microsoft's Genuine Advantage being cracked, this "question" gets posted to Slashdot. Yeah BSA, I heard your advert on the radio this morning too, but ignored it.... Faking a "question" is much more effective against slashdotters.
Explain that they will need to pay for the software before you install it, but if they want you to install Linux and OpenOffice, then you'll be happy to comply and it won't cost them anything for the software.
and e-mail M$ about this... and watch yourself climb the ladder
Live life to the fullest. It's not that life is short, but that you are dead for so long.
If the company is publicly traded, you only need two words: Sarbanes-Oxley .
I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
You're in the clear for two reasons:
1.) You don't have nearly as much money as your employer, so a software company isn't going to sue you. They're going to sue the employer. Seriously, you go for the deep pockets - not the guy installing software.
2.) The legal doctrine of "Respondeat Superior" covers you. It pretty much means that the "Employer answers for the crimes of the Employee". If a software company is going to sue for infringment, it's as if the lawsuit passes through you and onto your employer BUT only if what you did was within the scope of your employment. If you were installing the infringing software on your own free will, then you're in trouble. However, if you installed the software at the direction of your superior, then they're the one that is in hot water - not you.
So in sum - you are not in trouble and have no duty to disclose under the law, although whistleblower statutes would protect you if you did. I think the best thing for you to do is realize that it's friday and that pretty soon you should be drinking mass quantities of beer. Cheers!
***This is NOT legal advice and I am not you're attorney. If you have serious legal questions, you should seek counsel in your jurisdiction - the laws may be different***
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur
I don't know how much this would really help you if the BSA did a raid, but there is the concept of due diligence. You need to be able to show that you made an effort to follow copyright instructions and get your boss to do the same.
I would send a nicely worded email to your boss (&whoever else relevant) stating you will be glad to install the software, but the company needs to make sure it has correct licences. You also need a series of activation keys because otherwise "false" alarm bells may be ringing at MS. And print & keep emails offsite.
Dead? You're joking. I don't remember the numbers, but I know that a very significant fraction of small businesses use at least some pirated software*. This guy's employers are no deader than the rest of them unless he deliberately decides to cause trouble, and even then it's a case of inspections and fines rather than dismantling the company.
Copyright laws *cannot* be strictly and universally enforced right now, because it'd put too much of the workforce in prison - what sane democratic country would do that?
*Not to mention an even larger fraction of home computer users...
self respecting?
Just install ubuntu, firefox, thunderbird on the machines, and place a windows Longhorn [top secret] wallpaper on the desktop, and tell you boss you got the latest windows W4r3z on the computer, and within 3 months everyone woudl haev seamlessly gone from typing
>>john@drinkbeer.com[tab]I am bored at work[tab]Hi JJ, I need some beer, fuck work, my boss is a twat.
and clicking send to typing
>>john@drinkbeer.com[tab]I am bored at work[tab]Hi JJ, I need some beer, fuck work, my boss is a twat.
and clicking send.
Seriously, ubuntu, firefox and thunderbird. He won't know will he, I mean, come on. You can setup their passwords etc. Go on, try it.
Don't for get the 'w1nd0wz l0ngh0r|\|' wallpaper for added authenticity. You might get a payrise. But, tell him you can't tell anyone, else SCO might ask for a license!
Oh hahaha! that should go in the joke thread. *wipes tear*
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
im all for piracy, no really!? BUT only in certain circumstances and i think the law should allow for this:
Pirating windows is wrong UNLESS you are installing it in a virtual machine on an OS that has a valid license. so you've paid your license fee and are just extracting more usefullness from that license.
you are using a pruduct for personal education. NOT that schools can pirate software! for instance, if you are typing up a report, or a letter, or a memo, or whatever in a piece of software that is not licensed, that is wrong, BUT if you are teaching someone to use a piece of software or teaching yourself then it is ok.
liesure outside of software's market. pirating games is wrong. pirating 3d studio max to make 3d images and sell or give away is wrong. pirating 3d studio max to experiment with 3d modeling for personal use is ok BECAUSE 3d studio max is a professional product with a market in pruduction to distribution of 3d content, where you would only be producing and not distributing. the moment you sell or give away one of your works you would need to license the product.
and on that line of thought, many companies should allow full, and unrestricted copies to their software be used for free BUT have a visual, un-removable watermark on any output. so your word doc would look good BUT it would have small microsoft "unlicensed copy" text spread on it in random formation.
If you're installing that much software and worry about it, tell your boss that you're uncomfortable taking possibly illegal actions and want them to indemnify you against any actions or liability that may come about by you following your boss's instructions.
But, really, the smart thing to do is to spend the $500 to ask a lawyer this question. They'll know what protection your state gives innocent employees of criminal organization, and what can and can't be indemnified against.
And a good lawyer will also be able to tell you how your state's employment laws can keep you from losing your job if you refuse to perform illegal acts.
This seems like it would fall under activities on behalf of a company. If you order 30k computers for your company and you have no way to pay, the company goes bankrupt, not you. If you include a popular song in a product your company puts out without permission, your company is liable, not you. If you raid your company's pension funds, sell off their assets, give yourself a big fat bonus, and quit as the company enters bankruptcy, the company is liable not you.
I fail to see how the legal burdern of having unlicensed software on company computers would fall on the shoulders of individuals any more than the legal burden of not poisioning the rivers would.
Of course, this person should document everything, because they will be the fall guy if the fit hits the shan, including (recorded, with permission) conversations with superiors farther up the toem pole. He probably also qualifies for whistleblower status, and if necessary he should consider a pre-emptive strike. It won't make employee relations any easier, but it will legally prevent them from holding him accountable for their decisions.
The ______ Agenda
Remember when the narrator 'retires' from his office job in "Fight Club"...
Once you've been talked into doing something once, precedent makes it *much* harder to say no thereafter. I had a former employer that asked me to falsify records, though it wasn't stated that way. It was, "You check to make sure that this thing is thus-and-such, and then you record it", but the first time I wrote down an accurate but unacceptable value, it became, "You CAN'T put THAT down!" I shrugged and said, "That's what it was." They had somebody else take the book and change it, a compromise I was willing to live with at the time. Anyway, my point is that because I refused the first time, it thereafter was easy to refuse subsequently, and before very long an understanding developed that I couldn't be asked to do that.
That is the position you want to take. It may not totally protect you if everyone in the whole company goes down in flames, but it CAN reasonably be expected to keep a target from being painted on your particular chest. (Well, a legal target anyway. Some bosses hold grudges, which could be a different kind of target, but if you think you have that kind of boss you probably should be looking for another job already anyway.) But if you did the thing the first time, you may have to take that position on your *next* job.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
" but i was ordered to kill those people "
It wont fly..
Your only real choices are to get a statement that the license is legal, or quit your job..
If you *knowingly* install it, you are as liable as the shop is. Having the statement above would let you off the hook. But dont hold your breath on getting it.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
You won't get caught.
"Free Music and Witty Commentary"
No such domain: www.pityfive.com
Of course your boss cannot fire you for not doing illegal activity. Your boss can certainly fire you for another reason if you are not doingthe illegal activity...
The guy driving the broken truck and getting the ticket probably have done the right thing. The ticket was probably much cheaper than the risk of losing a job...
It is really the fault of the law that doesn't make the employer accountable. In this case both the driver and the one giving the instruction should have been fined, and the boss should have been fined more!
This week in Israel we had a crash between a truck driven by an overworked driver and a train. (The driver was said to have worked 40 hours...) Both drivers were killed, Several passengers were killed. hundreds of passengers were wounded, some severely. The owners of the company emloying the truck driver had sabbotged the "blackboxes" recording working hours of drivers and other data on their trucks so they could overwork the drivers without superviosion. The operators of the train did not have good enough arrangements at the railroad crossing that was known to be dangerous. I realy hope some management ends behind bars. Otherwise nothing would change...