Following Bill Gates' Linux Attack Money

UnderScan writes "After researching this material for about three years, Tom Adelstein tracks Microsoft's anti-Linux lobbying money: "Microsoft has unparalleled influence throughout the Federal government. On the cover of a recent edition of VarBusiness Magazine dated June 26, 2005 the editors presented a large headline which read: 'It's A Microsoft World. Five years after running afoul of the Feds, Microsoft is as powerful as ever. Pushing a platform instead of products could make it stronger still. Why nothing seems to stop it.'""

Comments

In other news...

[gwayne]

Tom Adelstein discovers VarBusiness Magazine owned by Microsoft.

Microsoft may not be the problem.

[Vodak]

Nothing seems to stop it because people act like sheep when it comes to technology. Try selling OSS solutions to a non-profit group when companies are in thier ear about how OSS is evil.

Give the local company gives them a free copy of Office and they are sold that OSS is the devil.

Re:Microsoft may not be the problem.

[dfsiii]

Exactly. Technology awareness is only half the battle - convincing people that the status quo is not acceptable is a whole other battle.

Because the field of information technology and technology as a whole is so fast-moving, people like to have some consistency. Sadly, Microsoft gives this to them with not only widely-compatible products (as most people use MS) but mediocrity. Why keep to this trend, we in the technological "know" ask. Why change, everyone else asks - what they have works fine.

If only there was something we could do.

Re:Microsoft may not be the problem.

[qwijibo]

Only techies seem to be interested in things like awareness or battling the status quo.

Most people want the lowest common denominator. The average person has unprecidented access to information and low priced technology. They don't care that the reason this is true because there were people who wanted more than the mediocrity they saw around them. These people are sheep. We call them sheeple.

Businesses are built by stepping on sheeple and taking their money. If you want to be successful in business, you just have to lose your conscience. Geeks seem to have a hard time grasping that most of the world doesn't care about technology.

From the geek perspective, there is technology that is 10 times better than the stuff MS puts out. The average person has never seen the alternatives and never will. As far as they're concerned, MS is the most amazing thing ever.

There is something that we can do, but it's scary. It involves going outside and interacting with people.

Re:Microsoft may not be the problem.

[arivanov]

Err... You clearly have never heard of Italy. Or Eastern Europe. Or Russia for that matter.

Re:Microsoft may not be the problem.

[danheskett]

Hardly.

You have no sense of perspective.

Is the US Government actively hostile to business? No.

It is hardly the most pro-corporate.

What a joke. You need to read about the rest of the world. The corruption and depth of influence that some companies hold in other countries is beyond shocking. Research how China is developing into an economic powerhouse and you'll see what I mean. It's not exactly what you'd call "transparent".

Re:Microsoft may not be the problem.

[IdleTime]

How2 this is rated as a troll is a mystery. here in the US companies and Special Interest Groups have politicians on their payroll. Any person who don't see that is truly blind.

And to all people who claim I have never been outside USA, I can only say I'm not an American, but come from a Scandinavian country. I have lived in USA since 1999. I've lived in several countries around the wolrd and travelled extensively in East-Europe too, both before and after the fall of communism. Nowhere have I seen politicans so blatantly ignoring the common peoples interest as here in the US while beeing in the pockets of corporations. You can mod me troll as much as you like, but it doesn't change the facts.

Re:Microsoft may not be the problem.

[Spirckle]

So sad, you may have a good appreciation for the inner workings of technology but you have no appreciation for the workings of evolutionary theory.

Survival of the fittest...but there's a part you left off. It's survival of the fittest of an organism to their environment. That means you can't take an organism that is fit in one environment and automatically declare it fit in all others.

So the 'sheeple' are so numerous because that's what their environment encourages; they would not fit well into your environment.

But environments evolve too and apparently your environment is not a good fit its wider environment which BTW includes all the sheeple. Sounds tautological I know but it's the way things work.

If you don't like the numerous organisms in an environment, you have to change their environment which makes them not so fit any more.

Throwing around pebbles is not likely to work.

Re:Microsoft may not be the problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

Nonprofits get tremendous discounts from Microsoft. For them, the cost is so minimal that the learning curve isn't worth the money regardless if it's open source.

Re:Microsoft may not be the problem.

[Gordo_1]

Only techies seem to be interested in things like awareness or battling the status quo.

Perhaps you should rephrase that to include the caveat that this applies to the *technological* domain. Many people care about battling the status quo, but the average person doesn't understand the nuances of how M$ maintains its monopoly through government lobbying and embrace-and-extend philosophy... they just want the computer to accomplish the task at hand and carry on with their lives.

Just like you don't ask what animals were harmed in the making of the product you use to wash your hair. Nor does the typical geek sound the alarm to bring attention to the conflicts of interest entrenched within the US pharmaceutical industry or the worldwide monopoly that DeBeers holds on diamonds, or the dairy lobby or human rights.

So the point is, there are plenty of non-technology causes in this world, but technology is your domain, so it's fitting that you should be a proponent for education and change if that's what you believe in.

Re:Microsoft may not be the problem.

[MrResistor]

Since I don't have mod points, I'm echoing the AC's "try SuSE" comment. It's well worth the money. They've been beating MS in the "easy config" department since the SuSE7.x days, and yes that includes all manner of networking and filesharing.

The Golden Rule.

[macaulay805]

Whoever has the gold makes the rules.

Re:The Golden Rule.

[justforaday]

I have a golden crayon. Can I make a rule?

Re:The Golden Rule.

[Doug Dante]

No, it's: Whoever makes the rules gets the gold. Notice that Microsoft is paying (*) politicians and not vice versa? (*) As in, donating money to the campaigns of said politicians.

Hmmmm

[Vonotar82]

It's only a matter of time before MicrSoft seceeds from the Union, forming a technocracy that will rule the internet and unleash Clippy v2.0, the Terminator edition. Unstoppable, blob-like, indefatigable, only Mr. Peabody and the Way Back machine can stop it now. May the Gods have mercy on our souls.

monkey!

[Paul Rose]

who else read as 'attack monkey' ?

Re:monkey!

[zakkie]

We're more used to it being referred to by its name: Steve Ballmer... ;-)

Re:monkey!

[zymurgy_cat]

I can see Clippy now:

Hi! It looks like you want to use your attack monkey! What would like to do?

• Permanently scar Linus' face
• Urinate on a copy of the GPL
• Throw razor sharp Linux CDs at poor children
• Use the "fling monkey feces" wizard

You are such babes in the woods

[Anonymous Coward]

Why nothing seems to stop it

Don't tell me you actually believed that the "GNU/Linux revolution" would somehow change the rules of the game and that future business would be conducted on the basis of competence/performance alone instead of politics and money?

The fact is that competence and performance can never compete with politics, lock-in and big money. IBM, Sun and a few other corporations like Red Hat are adapting Free/Open Software in the way that actually matters. Cash in on that success, stop whining about the "Microsoft World", play the backstab/lobbying-game to the end and you just might win.

Re:You are such babes in the woods

[Ruie]

The fact is that competence and performance can never compete with politics, lock-in and big money. IBM, Sun and a few other corporations like Red Hat are adapting Free/Open Software in the way that actually matters. Cash in on that success, stop whining about the "Microsoft World", play the backstab/lobbying-game to the end and you just might win.

But having won that way would it be any different from losing ?

Re:You are such babes in the woods

[FunWithHeadlines]

"Don't tell me you actually believed that the "GNU/Linux revolution" would somehow change the rules of the game and that future business would be conducted on the basis of competence/performance alone instead of politics and money?"

Actually, the GNU/Linux revolution is a revolution. That means it didn't change the rules of the game, it created a whole new game and dared anyone else to play on their turf. Microsoft is deeply entrenched in the wallets of the corporate and political world. But FOSS has taken off despite that, and now has a great mindshare, far more than you would expect. But hey, they give you freedom, and never underestimate the power of freedom.

So yes, the old powers can play the old games of power and money. And dinosaurs are remarkably successful despite the gnawing of little mammals. Until one day they aren't. And a new era begins.

Re:Hmm...

[wetdirtmud]

The new linux campaign... They should really start using Linux in the White House. The catchy slogan: Even the President can install it!

Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Soon they'll announce linux has ties to terrorist!

Re:Microsoft

[nanop]

Other's already have.
See Jeffrey Vernon Merkey's court complaint against, well... everyone.
An excerpt from the "FACTS COMMON TO ALL CAUSES OF ACTION" section:

42. Much of the activities of Linux and OSS have served to create a funneling system allowing sensitive and advanced technology created by computer technology companies in the United States to be illegally exported out of the United States and into the hands of the citizens of other countries.
43. As a result of these activities, a large portion of US technology has been unwittingly placed into the hands of various groups around the world, including Al-Queda, and other groups who sponsor international terrorism.
44. As a result of these activities, a large portion of US technology has been unwittingly placed into the hands of various groups around the world, including radical governments and groups who sponsor and have used the technology in support of the creation of weapons of mass murder and mass destruction designed to murder American Citizens and their families.

Re:Microsoft

[bnenning]

Holy crap. You stopped before it got really good:

46. The beheading and murder of United States Citizens in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and other countries have been videotaped, converted to MPEG and other images for viewing on the public Internet through the use of OSS and Linux software and computer technology developed and purloined by Linux and OSS members and illegally exported from the United States.

This guy makes Darl look like the poster child for mental health.

Re:Microsoft

[KlomDark]

I thought you were kidding. Then I looked, and you are not at all. Insanity.

46. The beheading and murder of United States Citizens in Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and other countries have been videotaped, converted to MPEG and other images for viewing on the public Internet through the use of OSS and Linux software and computer technology developed and purloined by Linux and OSS members and illegally exported from the United States.
47. Companies which sponsor, endorse, and support OSS and Linux, and those acting in concert as their advocates have been unwitting participants in wholesale technology theft of United States developed technology and sponsors of domestic and international terrorism.

48. Companies which sponsor, endorse, and support OSS and Linux, and those acting in concert as their advocates have been unwitting participants in wholesale technology theft of United States developed technology and sponsors of efforts to undermine the Government of the United States and the economic stability of computer technology development and industry within the United States.

49. Companies which sponsor, endorse, and support OSS and Linux, and those acting in concert as their advocates have been unwitting participants in wholesale technology theft of United States developed technology and sponsors of the creation of weapons of mass murder and mass destruction by the enemies of the United States.

49. Companies who attempt to protect their rights to their intellectual property by filing lawsuits against members of Linux and OSS are attacked publicly on the public Internet through a variety of means, including identity theft, defamation, interference in their business and cultural relationships, violation of their rights of expressive association and freedom of speech, threats to murder them, intentional infliction of emotional distress to the extent they take their own lives, and Internet postings advocating they commit suicide.

50. Many of these methods employed by OSS and Linux Community members to oppress and suppress public viewpoints they do not agree with, do not differ in any way and in many cases resemble the same methods employed by international terrorists to promote their causes, in that they advocate through the posting of messages, emails, and public statements to Internet websites: murder, violence, death, oppression, mob mentality, intentional infliction of emotional distress, terror, defamation, identify theft, character assassination, threats to murder or firebomb the homes of individuals, and threats to overthrow governmental systems.

51. Although OSS and Linux both state goals and ideals which are attractive, such as freedom to innovate, freedom to develop new technology, and free access to software and computer technology, efforts by competing open source efforts to develop or create new development communities are routinely attacked publicly by OSS and Linux members through a variety of oppressive means over the public Internet, such as threats of: murder, violence, death, oppression, mob mentality, intentional infliction of emotional distress, terror, defamation, identify theft, character assassination, threats to murder or firebomb the homes of individuals, and threats to overthrow governmental systems.

52. Many of these activities fall within the definitions under the Patriot Act and other Federal Legislation designed to protect the American People as acts of domestic terrorism.

Is this come kind of joke?

Microsoft wins on so many fronts

[OffTheLip]

The sheer amounts of cash microsoft has at its disposal distorts all things including politics. The recent Gattes world health initiatives and other gestures of good will insure M$ remains a dandy in the eye of the general public. Now their enemies are another story...

Counterattack Plan...

[Blackbrain]

We could probably get Tova Torvalds an advisory position with IndyMedia...do you think it would help?

Re:I don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

I totally know what you mean (without trolling). My father accepted it well enough (hell, he even told me it was sometimes nicer than Windows) but for the rest of the family it was a no-no. I was keen to learn but the RPM hunt and the randomness of program functioning is what bought me back to Windows.

No kidding!

[JayJay.br]

Here in .br, while the whole world sees us as a big case for FLOSS / Linux, the results of this so greatly announced program are yet to be seen. I've been involved in a government project or three, and I've seen things like they throwing away perfectly working Linux-based applications and changing them to Microsoft just to realize that it won't work.

In the end, more money goes to hire dozens of different software houses just to duct'tape the system to hell so that it half-assed works.

And I'm not even talking about the USA, where the market holds potentially more money for MS than here.

I know this was not exactly on-topic, and I've RTFA, but I had to say it.

Federal access

[teasea]

Microsoft has unparalleled influence throughout the Federal government.

If by unparalleled they mean, 'a lot, but not so much as oil and pharmaceuticals', then I might agree.
Anyway...

Re:Federal access

[quarkscat]

"Microsoft has unparalleled influence throughout the Federal government.
If by unparalleled they mean, 'a lot, but not so much as oil and pharmaceuticals', then I might agree."

Spot on target!
[Ahhh! ... oil and "pharacuticals"] - Dubya must constantly be flashing back to the good old bad old days, when he could do anything he wanted and fall back on his daddy's name and influence.
Do not forget that it was a change of "venue" (ie. the incoming Dubya regime) that allowed MSFT to "write their own" punishment after the DoJ monopoly conviction.

Historically, MSFT and many other big IT companies totally ignored the politicos when they were passing around their campaign contribution "hats".
After the DoJ monopoly conviction against MSFT, I can guarantee that few major IT companies ever made THAT mistake again. And once the "lesson" was learned, there was no need for the politicos to cripple their new found campaign contributors.

MSFT has never engaged in a single direct frontal attack against their competitors, including linux.
Instead, they have followed the principles outlined in the "Art of War". (Not unlike how China is now "dicing and slicing" the USA's economy...)

Re:Federal access

[jc42]

Why just pin it on Dubya? Did you think it didn't go on before and won't go on afterwords?

Actually, there's a lot of data about this available online. One of the big changes at Microsoft in 2004 was a huge increase in campaign contributions. They went from being an insignificant source of campaign funds to one of the largest contributors.

While they contributed to a lot of campaigns, most of their contributions are fairly well documented as having gone to the Bush/Cheney campaign funds, either directly or indirectly via such routes as PACs. They were one of Bush's largest contributors.

It wasn't long after the election, of course, before the Justice Department caved and essentially gave Microsoft a free pass for their past and future transgressions. This has been widely understood as payoff, of course.

But all it really means is that Microsoft has faced up to the way that large organizations like governments (and many megacorporations) work. They have moved to a "marketing" approach that's better for this market than what has worked so well with the non-technical public. A true cynic would call this a rational marketing decision.

Conspiracy Theories

[Kaorimoch]

Not as much substance as I hoped as the article 'follows the money'. More conspiracy theories than anything else.

It certainly shows Microsoft repenting of its earlier mistake for not paying off politicians like all the other major corporations did so they didn't get investigated for violating laws. I'm sure all these wonderful contributions will keep it safe from further litigation and give it more power to manage the law making process as time goes on.

Democracy is a joke

[DrugCheese]

I think I read it here somewhere awhile back and I totally agree, America IS a corperate Oligarchy

The system is indeed for sale

Re:Democracy is a joke

[ThisIsFred]

Probably been as much since after the Civil War, or at least the turn of the 20th century. I don't see why it needs the word "corporate" to qualify it, though. People regularly place large chunks of their wealth in other people's hands, and give up freedoms and rights to a select few because it's convenient. "Why can't someone else do it?" Doesn't matter if that group is a private corporation or not, the issue is that a relatively small group of people have easy access to lots of wealth, and little accountability for their actions.

sure

[nomadic]

Microsoft has unparalleled influence throughout the Federal government.

Oh puh-lease. There are plenty of companies with that kind of clout; there are plenty with a hell of a lot more. Compared to Halliburton or McDonnell-Douglas or Boeing, Microsoft is strictly amateur hour.

Re:sure

[Laser Lou]

Considering that McDonnell-Douglas doesn't exist anymore....yeah, I'm going to totally disregard your comment as someone who has no clue what is going on

Agreed. I can't believe no one modded this up.

Re:sure

[JerkyBoy]

Amateur hour or not, the following should pique your interest:

In Figure 5, one can see that the Chairman of the Senator Judiciary Committee received funds for re-election from Microsoft. This is the same Microsoft that the same the committee questioned with regard to the last Federal anti-trust settlement.

And with regards to the paper, rather than digital, trail of campaign contributions:

One might consider this an ideal scenario for a monopolist whose compliance audits related to its settlement with the Department of Justice exist in secrecy.

With regards to the settlement, Ralph Nader had this to say:

It is astonishing that the agreement fails to provide any penalty for Microsoft's past misdeeds, creating both the sense that Microsoft is escaping punishment because of its extraordinary political and economic power, and undermining the value of antitrust penalties as a deterrent. Second, the agreement does not adequately address the concerns about Microsoft's failure to abide by the spirit or the letter of previous agreements, offering a weak oversight regime that suffers in several specific areas. Indeed, the proposed alternative dispute resolution for compliance with the agreement embraces many of the worst features of such systems, operating in secrecy, lacking independence, and open to undue influence from Microsoft.

Have a look at the people involved in the antitrust case against MS:

Phil Bond: Undersecretary of Commerce for Technology. Bond is the highest-ranking appointed official who deals with technology. He is the former top aide to U.S. Rep. Jennifer Dunn (R-Wash.), whose district includes Microsoft's hometown of Redmond. Bond's top policy aide at Commerce was Connie Correll Partoyan, the former executive vice president of TechNet (a Microsoft-funded trade association), who recently took a lobbying job for the law firm Preston, Gates, Ellis & Rouvelas Meeds.

William Kolasky: Appointed deputy assistant attorney general for international enforcement for the Justice Department's antitrust division in October 2001. Kolasky was a lawyer for the Association for Competitive Technology, a group whose largest contributor is Microsoft, and wrote a friend of the court brief supporting Microsoft in its antitrust lawsuit.

Ed Gillespie: Until recently, he headed the Republican National Committee. Gillespie helped build the Republican party and identified candidates for state and federal elections. He has returned to Quinn Gillespie & Associates. Prior to becoming the head of the RNC he was a Microsoft lobbyist. Microsoft paid his lobbying firm, Quinn Gillespie & Associates, $1.2 million between 2001 and 2003, according to the Center for Public Integrity.

Richard Wallis: Microsoft's associate general counsel chairs the American Bar Association's antitrust section. This group influences how much oversight federal judges have over antitrust settlements. In late June, a U.S. appeals court rejected claims that Microsoft's 2001 deal with the government was too lenient.

Re:I don't get it

[Vodak]

For every story about the ills of Linux in the home I can direct people to others who have a completely differnet view.

I agree. Linux is not yet ready for the low PC skilled home user. It still takes someone in the home with some Linux abilty to do the initital set up of the boxes.. but Linux as a desktop OS has grown by leaps and bounds. If you are someone who doesn't understand that then I can't help you.

Linux doesn't do everything right.. But it's not as evil or crappy as you make it sound.

Amount of contributions

[leoval]

I am not sure, but donating US $5000 is enough to swing the vote of a US Senator ? From the article that is what the Preston Gates firm contributed to the guy (perhaps the table is listing the amount in thousands, who knows). If that is the case, then the hard times are hitting even Congress.

Re:Amount of contributions

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

I don't mean to discourage the notion that our leaders sell out cheaply, they certainly do. But documented campaign contributions are the tip of this iceberg, dive down below the surface with me.

There are golf trips, and trips to las vegas, or other places this senator needs to check out for him to be able to properly understand Microsoft and the plight of the industry regarding the federal government.

There are the neices and nephews with a different last name, that need a job out of college, that Microsoft hires.

There are the flights on corporate jets. The introductions to other powerful industry people, that both junior and senior senators need.

There's the promise of a cushy job if and when they do retire out of Congress.

The promise of indirect contributions come next election.

And once you consider that the $5000 is more like roughly $100,000 all things considered, and that it only required an hour here, and hour there throughout the year, never interfering with others giving him more or less the same benefits... would you pass over one more free grab at $100,000, when you're already selling out 5 times a day, and #6 won't be all that more difficult?

Re:Amount of contributions

[HangingChad]

There are golf trips, and trips to las vegas, or other places this senator needs to check out for him to be able to properly understand Microsoft and the plight of the industry regarding the federal government.

Oh, those are the easy ones to track. The more interesting ones involve "layovers" in places like the Caribbean. A layover doesn't technically count as a destination and frequently isn't reported.

Nice thing about stopping there...the laws governing certain activities...the kind involving really hot women from foreign countries...are lot less restrictive down there.

Kinda gives the term "layover" a whole new meaning if you catch my drift. You're on the right track, though.

Re:I don't get it

[Approaching.sanity]

Your results will vary with what you start with. Had you been a Win user your entire life nad tried to change in a day? How is your background with computing? Which disto did you decided to try? Did you verify that what you wanted was supported?

Computers that are produced by the mass market are designed to run Windows, you need to take a moment and make sure that they can run Linux. And With Distros like Ubuntu there should be no reason they should not. Or what about Gentoo. Everything will work in Gentoo once you make it happen.

If "using the right tool for the job"

[mi]

...is the accepted mantra, than why is anyone surprised?

Are you using Windows every day? Did you set up a Windows computer for your parents, grandparents, or other friends because FreeBSD/Linux/NetBSD/MacOS is "too complicated"? Then you are the problem...

Re:I don't get it

[Markus_UW]

You know, I find it odd that these people (Who likely tried Fedora) have all these problems (when the distro is supposed to configure everything for you), while when I install a "Geek Distro" like Slackware or Gentoo on my system, just about everything works perfectly (and my system's a Toshiba laptop, on which a clean install of WinXP has almost no functionality).

I don't know what these people put in their computers that make them work so poorly. (But i presume they're Dell or Gateway boxes, with lots of sketchy child-labour manufactured components).

Re:I don't get it

[toounknown]

I agree, BUT 95% of these problems stem from Microsoft having a stranglehold. Think about it. If you were a soft/hardware developer and you are trying to make a profit, you're going to develop your product on the most ubiquitous platform and only consider secondary platforms if market share (potential profit) warrants this. It's simple economics.

Linux/BSD variants have come a LONG way considering most of the functionality/drivers has been either creatively engineered by the community or obtained by lobbying vendors (resulting in drivers that only provide the most basic functionality).

Boost the installed base and provide demand for functionality in your OS, and vendors will respond.

Unfortunately these problems are difficult to solve because they are both a cause and a symptom of themselves. Not to mention the very active efforts of Microsoft to thwart any meaningful attempts at the adoption of alternate systems.

Just my 0.02$

and you know what?

[ChiGodOfKarma]

They also control the black helicopters, Flying Saucers, and it seems that if you dig deep enough you find out that the Anal Probe(tm held by MS) was actually worked on in the late 70's by none other than Bill Gates himself. His new secret projects are being tested in a certain prison in Cuba as we speak. Anal Probe De-Virginater 2.0. or maybe you guys need to lighten up...

OMFG!!1!

[The Bungi]

Microsoft lobbies politicians in its favor!! Merciful heaven, what is the world coming to?? Because of course no other company in this country does this!! I mean, 8 thousand dollars?? And he had to do his little insert in the second listing to prove that Microsoft and Preston Gates are even in the list, with a whopping $3,500!!

And Melinda gates is in the beard of directors of a newspaper?? Holy shit, and is she in the board of directors of all the other news media outlets in this country? Inquiring minds want to know! At the very least we now now that she's not in the board of directors of LXer, which is apparently read by 8,500 people a day!! Conspiracy, I say!!

And the article is rated 10/10!! It must be true!!

And it took this guy three years to scoop this out!? Film at 11!

Re:I don't get it

[VolciMaster]

Before you start complaining here about anything, maybe you should have asked yourself, what do I want to be doing with my computer? I only boot Windows to play a few games I like. Everything else I do under Linux - with absolutely no problems. I can log into my router - with konqueror or firefox - play video and music files without skipping, and use all of my nVidia graphics card's available resolution (well, not quite all, but monitor won't support the max the card will).

If your DSL connection is running into your router, there's no reason for your provider to have stated that 'linux is not supported'.

And I hate to break this to you also, but I've owned a couple machines (with nothing wierd in them) that only Linux would install and boot up. My parents' last computer wouldn't run Win95, 98, or NT. But Mandrake 6.1 installed onto it fine, found all the hardware (including the unusual printer they have), and ran fine. (It was a 400Mhz K6-II with 256M RAM.)

I've set up Linux for a bunch of 'real average Jane' students, and they don't even notice a difference. After getting one set up with Mandrake, Firefox, and GAIM, her roommate came in and asked "oh, is that a new version of AIM?" not "what happened to windows?".

My roommate MS work centered around using Linux machines with video capture cards, so I don't know what you were trying to do that you couldn't. the All In Wonder cards from ATI are pretty popular, and have extensive driver support.

So, I'm calling complete bull on you. I'm not an ultra fanatical linux geek, either. I just use it, and it works. It takes no longer to boot than XP, and has far more useful application to me (lack of viruses, ease of ssh access to other machines, higher granular control over individual resources) than Windows ever has.

Troll or not?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

Is it a troll or is it not?

Actually, I don't think it matters. Even if this is a troll it reflects many people's experience of Linux. I'm sceptical of the claim that konqueror couldn't display the router web page because I'm sure most routers use pretty basic HTML. And I'm sceptical about mp3s skipping unless this was a very old PC. But I've had plenty of problems with playing video (though mplayer is my player of choice even on MacOS X), printers, DSL configuration, and video cards. And to add one to the list, I still can't get any sound out of the SUSE box I use at work. (Yes, I'm sure it's a simple thing to fix, but the points is that with Windows and MacOS X I've never even had anything to fix.)

So I really don't think this should be modded troll.

Re:I don't get it

[Iriel]

There's serveral reasons that Linux doesn't work for a lot of people, and sometimes, I can sympathize. I actually run a Fedora 4 box and Windows 2000 right now, and this is my experience in the problems:

A lot of hardware doesn't work well for Linux (or takes an enormous amount of tweaking) because a lot of hardware vendors don't open source their drivers and so the community must be users and semi-hardware developers to help eachother to get things working. Although my nVidia 6800 GT actually gets better perforance in Linux than it did in windows ;) However, there is a giant community of users more than eager to help eachother out when getting started or even finding expert advice.

A lot of services don't work as well in Linux because the vendors don't see it worth paying someone else to support a platform with such a small user base and/or they don't want to learn a new system to support. Micro$oft has made sure that IE still won't comply with the new CSS standards in IE7, and with such a large percentage or the market, they enforce their proprietary garbage on everyone. This makes things incompatible on many platforms because a lot of companies only want to worry about the 80-90% of users that have Windows computers. It's been a somewhat recent trend to support the mac, and that's just plain sad. In time, we can hope that with the server market victories, the desktop can follow.

With about 8 bazillion different distros of Linux, it's possible that a person could pick up Gentoo and quit before they even have their system compiled, while other flavors are built to help people get used to Linux. Sometimes, people just get a really bad first impression. You just have to find the right customization for you.

The most important thing that I've seen holding Linux back is advocacy. I see many who are not advocates, but zealots (I used to be guilty too), and that scares many people away from trying it. Linux isn't for everyone, but I love it for certain purposes. I play games with Windows, and I program on Linux. It's a setup that works for me, but not everyone's story can be the same.

"Attack Monkey?? LOL"

[neurokaotix]

Am I the only person that reads all comments before posting one myself? Geesh.

Re:I don't get it

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

I tried switching the family over to JSF attack jets over the summer
vacation and the wails of terror, utter anxiety, and lack of any flight training whatsoever was enough to crash the jets straight into the ground.
So why all the troubles?
Afterall JSF pilots love to tell stories of how the JSF is so
much better than a donkey cart with a broken wheel and they would never try to fly across the ocean in one.
My conclusion after seeing real people in a real average Jane setting
crash and burn after being dropped in the pilot's seat midair is that the JSF advocates are just plain lying
because the JSF is really a step backwards for people used to using
technology several centuries behind what it should be.

To make this short and simple, virtually NOTHING worked properly in the JSF.
Telling the JSF to turn left and swatting it with your hand did nothing, it would not listen.
Stuffing oats and barley into the fuel tank did not refuel it. In fact, the jet technician said I caused 100s of 1000s of $$$ worth of damage!
I tried to nail a proper shoe onto the jet turbine, but the jet-grade aluminum just gouged.
I applied salve to where we attached the harness, but the weird metallic lesions would not heal.
We then took the JSF to a vetrinarian, but he said he did not treat JSFs.
I was unable to tie the reins up to the hitching post.
And it goes on and on for pages,but the bottom line is that the JSF lasted about 3 days in my house before I ditched it and went back to
my donkey cart with a broken wheel.

Conclusion is that the JSF is a birds nest of confusion. The JSF seems
like it might be good until you actually try and fly it and then it
shows it's ugliness, slowness and instability.

Why on earth ANYONE would use the JSF for personal transportation is beyond me.

Not a troll ? Yes it is !

[alexhs]

Parent post is not a troll.

I was wondering. But I'm now convinced it is actually a troll (and won't therefore answer him) : how would an AC have written so much in about two minutes ?

Either he had access to the news before, which implies a suscriber account, then posting as AC, or he just copy-pasted a pre-written text. In both cases, I can't see how it couldn't be a troll.

Oh the internet

[A beautiful mind]

"Where men are men, women are women, and young 14y old girls are FBI agents"

...or something like that.

windows users don't have bugs, viruses, spywares:)

[free2]

The parents forget there is an even larger number of people who are fed up by viruses, spyware and other windows problems (yes windows has some shortcomings, did you know ?).

Re:Hmm...

[smittyoneeach]

Take a random computer and peripherals[1], to include an 802.11x network, and set up WinXP with the default Admin and a Limited account, and make it all work smoothly for the Limited account.
Still haven't unkinked it all, even with O'Reilly's WinXP Hacks book, 2th Edition.
And my other partition is a source-based GNU/Linux distro, so, while I may be an idiot, I lay claim to being a clever idiot.
Back on topic, the problem is the amount of MSFT in the portfolios of decision makers.
The stock market is a vast, perfectly legal, source of conflict-of-interest.
Sorry, no realistic remedy.

[1] common, non-MS hardware

What about the terrorist money?

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

Microsoft is funded by terrorists who use their software to plot devilish crimes. (Windows 2K in fact.)

Personal Exp switching fam from win 2 lin

[Vodak]

Used Ubuntu Linux to switch my sister's notebook PC to Linux and it worked like a charm.

But why does she use Linux? Simple newbie like reason. It comes with more preinstanned simple little games then Windows. In XP she had the abilty to play, mine sweeper, pineball, and solitare...

Now she and my mother are constantly playing gnome same game, any of the multiple flavors of tetris, and majong. (oh god if I could spell)

Re:windows users don't have bugs, viruses, spyware

[ZephyrXero]

Agreed....the insecurity of Windows alone brings it back down to equal with any UI or setup frustrations you would find with Linux. It's the fact that Linux is open source that really pushes it over the top.

Follow Gates' OTHER money.

[sakusha]

Watch closely where Gates is putting his money. He is slowly and quietly liquidating his MSFT stock holdings and putting the money into Big Pharmaceutical stocks. Gates is one of the biggest Big Pharma stockholders in the world. And gee, what a surprise, his "charities" (and I use that term loosely) are solely dedicated to getting the 3rd World hooked on Big Pharma products.
It appears the only monopoly more profitable than Microsoft is Pharmaceuticals.

Re:Follow Gates' OTHER money.

[ad0gg]

By hooked, you mean getting drugs that save the lives of their citizens? I guess maybe 3rd world countries shouldn't rely on drugs and rely on prayer instead.

What are you going to say next, that bill gates is trying to get the 3rd world countries hooked on food while funneling money into agricultural market?

Re:Follow Gates' OTHER money.

[Jherek Carnelian]

By hooked, you mean getting drugs that save the lives of their citizens? I guess maybe 3rd world countries shouldn't rely on drugs and rely on prayer instead.

By hooked, he means hooked on foreign produced drugs. All of the money that Gates gives for drugs (drug money?) is spent on purchasing foreign produced drugs, often at 100x the price of identical locally produced drugs.

So instead of using his money as a negotiating club to bring Big Pharma's pricing into line with local market conditions, he's just propping up the drug companies and helping a tiny fraction of the people who could be helped if the same money was spent on cheaper medicine.

Sure you can yada-yada about how drug companies deserve to get whatever they can for their hard-earned patented medicine. But that argument falls apart in the face of two facts: 1) Marketing makes up the bulk of costs associated with most patented drugs and 2) Without Bill's money the local governments would be using the locally-produced drugs anyway, these countries are just "freebies" to the drug co's and not part of their normal business plan otherwise - they know that you can't squeeze blood from a stone and they don't care, plenty of blood in the 1st world.

Re:I don't get it

[Fiver-]

The GP is a Usenet post from 2003.

Burn.

Re:I don't get it

[Aeiri]

To make this short and simple, virtually NOTHING worked properly under Linux.

Maybe 4 years ago... MAYBE...

Video cards could not get maximum resolution.
Capture programs, for my ATI All In WOnder and Video camera did not work. In fact my ATI cards advanced features (remote control amongst other things) didn't work at all.

That's ATI's fault for hating Linux, not the Linux community. We can't exactly create great drivers when the company doesn't release its specifications on the cards. NVIDIA doesn't either, as far as I'm aware, but that doesn't matter because they have great Linux drivers.

As for remote controls and capture program, LIRC does most remote control functions perfectly, and a lot of distros have it already installed (I believe), and unless I'm mistaking the definition you are referring to for "capture program", GIMP does fine.

My printer (Brother all in one fax/copier/printer) did not work.

Most modern distros come preconfigured with CUPS, ready to print right out of the box.

My DSL connection did not work and when I called support they said that Linux was not supported.

So does mine, and I'm posting this message, aren't I? "Not supported" means "we aren't going to help you with any problems you have". The DHCP and PPP protocols are straightforward, so it is obviously a problem with your network card. Unless you are using the same card in all computers, at least ONE, more likely all but that one you tried, of the computers should have had internet access right out of the box.

My mp3 and mpeg video and music files played but they skipped horribly.

What distro did you try? I've NEVER had that problem, EVER (and I have 2 ATI cards!).

I couldn't log into my router via konqueror to change/view settings

I haven't configured my router through Windows period, only Linux. If your network card wasn't working like you said earlier, then that's a redundant problem. Unplug your ethernet cable from your computer and try configuring your router through Windows, it's the same thing.

MANY, MANY, MANY web pages did not display correctly.

What were you using Mozilla during the browser wars?

I was keen to learn but the RPM hunt and the randomness of program functioning

If you are using any RPM based distro, that's your own fault. RPM "hunting" and RPM "hell" (much like DLL "hell") make every RPM based distro crap the minute they base their system off of it (of course, that is only my opinion). Trying one distro and saying "MY GOD LINUX SUCKS!" is like trying Windows Server 2003 for your desktop and saying "MY GOD WINDOWS SUCKS!".

All of these "problems" are either minor issues or problems that don't exist today practically at all. While I personally don't like it, Ubuntu automatically detects everything pretty well, and has a decent "hide the background stuff" approach that seems to work somewhat nicely for people new to Linux. Also, if you are wanting a "I want my computer to work right now without touching it" approach, like Windows, I would try Linspire. I've heard their distro is working really nicely for that stuff.

Those who can't compete, lobby

[MECC]

Its obvious MS can't just make better software to compete with OSS, or at least they don't believe they can. So, they lobby to make any serious competition look evil in some way, or make that competition illegal somehow. Either that, or they just fear what they don't understand. Remember, most OSS is produced without traditional management - its a different way of seeing things with respect to making software. That's why OSS often 'just works'.

I installed linux on a laptop, and the ethernet interface 'just worked'along with everything else with no additional intervention. With Win2k and WinXP, I had to hunt down the drivers, although that wasen't very hard. On another PC, reinstalling WinXP and applying SP2 redered the box unbootable from WinXP. It boots knoppix just fine, and I can browse the web, read my company email, including opening MS office attachments.

However, corrupting goverment officials - that's not news, that's shooting fish in a barrel. Not even a good spectator sport.

Re:windows users don't have bugs, viruses, spyware

[ZephyrXero]

Apparently you missed the crux of my argument. The fact that Linux is open source is all the reason you should need to switch. To achieve freedom and security you must give up some convienence. I've been struggling with learning Linux for over a year now, but I'm still not giving up on it.

Breaking News.....

[demachina]

News at 11, a big corporation makes campaign contributions to insure they gain influence in Washington.

Breaking news, a major scandal has been unearthed, a big corpooration pays lobbiests with connections to influence politicians.

Geez, EVERY big company does EXACTLY the same thing, look at all the companies on the list in the article that gave more money than Microsoft did, like AOL Time Warner. The only amazing thing about Microsoft is they didn't do it much until the antitrust suite and Congress became active in drafting legislation that directrly impacts their business.

The only plus I can see in their /. submission is thanks to all the Gates/Linux catch phrases maybe some number of geeks will be enlightened that their supposed representative Democracy was in fact sold to the highest bidder like a century or two ago.

This whole submission is a case of taking a somewhat interesting article on politics and business as usual(a.k.a sleezy) and bending it so its certain to make it to the Slashdot front page using certain to succeed hot button catch phrases.

Its mildly interesting that there may be a link between Microsoft, Preston Gates and Abramoff but I assure you there are a LOT of politicians and firms that are going to have sleeze splattered on them thanks to Abramoff now that he's been publicly tagged as a sleeze and a crook, something most insiders have known for a long time.

Its interesting Melinda Gates is on the board of the Washington post but ALL boards are incestuous dens of influence peddaling between the rich and powerful.

But really, nothing to see here....move along.

Re:Breaking News.....

[truthsearch]

So, because every company does exactly the same thing it should be ignored? If everyone's doing it there's no reason to investigate and ask questions? Lxer is merely trying to open peoples' eyes to a little of what's going on. But for you ignorance is bliss.

Funny you should mention that

[argoff]

I found it funny that you mentioned that, because the same force that is going to kill Microsoft (in less than 3 years) is the same one that is also going to cause the dollar to collapse and force the US back onto the gold standard.

That force is the information age. Both monitary policy and Microsoft are about controlling and manipulating information that people are allowed to have or apply.

Monitory policy manipulates information by lying to people about the value of their money, Microsoft controlls information thru copyright and licensing schemes that forbid people from copying office and windows. They call this right controll and manipulate what other people copy a "property right" but it's really about controlling how people use information. The *AA are even worse.

But the problem is, that in the information age, information, by definition can not be controlled. It is sorta like the plantation system that tried to controll the labor force in the industrial revolution. The scheme simply blew up in their face and all hell broke loose.

In sum, people would be very wise to buy every dam bit of gold or silver they can get their hands on. And break their neck doing everything immaginitively possible to bet their future career on Linux and ween themselves of windows.

Re:Funny you should mention that

[Breakfast Pants]

Linux, gold, blah blah: Cryptonomicon isn't a bible.

Make mine +6 Insightful

[IceAgeComing]

"Better yet, you idealists should all just die now. The world has no room for people who strive to make it a better place."

No thanks. At the end of my life, I'd like to not be remembered as a back-stabbing cheat, but as someone who strove to make the world better. And today you're in luck: I can take your ridicule. My heart is full of love.

Re:Make mine +6 Insightful

[zeitgeist_chaser]

And, in the end, when the bad guys stand triumphant, will you be satisfied when you look in the mirror and say to yourself, "Well, at least I went about it 'the right way'"? Some of us would rather stab the bad guys in the back and win in our quest to make the world a better place. Striving to make the world better and losing doesn't actually make the world better.

Predictable

[tsotha]

Well, this is another case of the law of unintended consequences, isn't it? For many years Microsoft was perfectly happy to do its own thing and leave Washinton alone. Then we had a couple of politicians (at the behest of Novel and Oracle) trying to make hay out of "getting" them. Having been forced into the political arena, how could they have been expected to respond?

They bought up a bunch of politicians. It was a matter of survival. But now they have all this political clout they can apply in other ways. I don't see any benefit to all that lawyering worth remaking Microsoft into a political force.

I'm not saying they never did anything illegal. The problem is the government was trying to put them out of business. DOJ should have slapped them with a large fine for exclusionary business deals and called it a day. Microsoft simply couldn't tolerate a situation where a judge has to sign off on every new feature they want to add to Windows.

So where does that money come from?

[SuperKendall]

Don't tell me you actually believed that the "GNU/Linux revolution" would somehow change the rules of the game and that future business would be conducted on the basis of competence/performance alone instead of politics and money?

Of course not.

But where do you think all that money Microsoft has comes from? It comes from companies, from consumers.

And when companies wake up and realize they can take they money they have been giving Microsoft, and keep more of it themselves... that is the revolution, based entirey on the same rules of politics and money.

The rules that say if you keep stealing long enough from someone someday they will notice.

The rules that say if your competition has a lower operating cost they are probably going to eat you up. So it only takes a few companies going with open source solutions along with significant savings and therefore reduced pricing to tilt the whole industry that way.

In the end even a very rich company like Microsoft cannot propel itself on money alone as they simply have to take more in then they spend out.

Bill Gates' Linux Attack Money?

[suitepotato]

Is this another new monster from Kingdom of Loathing?

Microsoft defending itself against a competing platform? Sending attack money out? No, say it ain't so.

(insert your favorite eyes rolling emoticon here)

No, the BIG damn shock is...

[argent]

This isn't news. This isn't the big shock. The big shock is that this apparently is news to a lot of Microsoft apologists. Or, at least the ones who were denying that Microsoft bought their way out of the antitrust case.

getting away with it.

[Erris]

Oh puh-lease. There are plenty of companies with that kind of clout

Please yourself.

It's not "clout" it's ability to break the law and get away with it through bribes and fast talking. Oil and defense companies may have their influence but they have not been flaunting anti-trust law and getting away with it after conviction. That other corruption may exist is no reason to look the other way, especially with something as important as software is to your rights to free speech, privacy and financial security. Murder may be more "important" than rape, but rapists should be put away.

There are also important differences in industry to consider economies of scale and product. It takes a single computer and one person to make high quality software. Developing a new battle tank and finding the fuel to drive are at least five orders of magnitude more expensive. Also, I'm not aware of a free fuel or free arms movement who have the ability to make infinite coppies of their vastly superior product but can't find a vendor.

That M$ continues to push it's crap onto hardware makers, vendors and the general public is inexcusable. The end result will be a world without privacy and continued news/entertainment monopolies of the 1920s. The US government had it's chance to stop it.

Now it's up to each of us to put a stop to the idiocy. Don't buy or use or recommend M$. It's that easy. Not for your wife, neighbor or relatives. Free software is easier and better. M$ can't live forever without customers and their platform merits few of those.

Newbies shouldn't choose Fedora..

[delire]

.. it's Redhat's little experiment to see if the community can sustain development of a distribution whose parts or whose sum may become useful in their enterprise editions later. it has no primary project of maintaining an easy to use desktop platform. their own site makes this quite clear.

and so i wasn't suprised that all my encounters with Fedora prove it's far more suited to very interested enthusiasts than new users. this seems due to the Redhat association; as though being tagged with such a name brand it has proven itself to be ready for widest distribution.

Fedora needs alot of work to be a sensible productivity platform for Jane Sixpack. Ubuntu or Mepis are far more suitable for new users, out-of-the-box. given the choice of all three, nearly all of my students dropped Fedora for the Debian-based Mepis and Ubuntu distributions.

administrators shouldn't be so easily swayed either. Fedora is difficult to maintain and install compared to that of Mepis or Ubuntu. it took 2 of us 4.5 hours to install Mepis on 30 dell workstations, all just worked with absolutely *no* after-the-fact configuration. Fedora Core 4 took 3 people 2 full days to get to that state on the same number of machines.

Fedora, as a would-be flagship of Desktop Linux for so many, gives a bad first impression. Fedora users promoting the project should read the distribution home page before reccommending it to uncle Keith.

then again, it seems uncle Keith has already decided.

Re:I don't get it

[MightyMartian]

This notion of clean installs on Windows is such a bloody myth. At this very moment I'm in an upgrade hell with Office 2000. I upgraded it to SR1 due to security concerns, and now, whenever some users try to log on to the machine, it's starts this post-install process and gives me an ugly error about not being able to find source media. I've put the Office 2000 CD in, it doesn't like it. I'm faced with uninstalling and then reinstalling and hoping it works. Let's face it, if the Windows install system is any better, it's only marginally better. I still have a phantom of Netscape 4 on one computer (yes I know, go into the registry blah blah blah, but that only proves my point).

I call bullshit!

[Progman3K]

I switched from Windows to Linux at home two years ago and sure, it was a bit of a learning curve, but I'm much happier now.

Call me a ricer, but my Gentoo box is ten times more stable and faster than that bloated crapware Windows EVER was.

Also, most software available through the Gentoo catalog (emerge system) is higher quality than virtually everything Microsoft provides "for free".

The only problem I've had is that my TV tuner card is not supported; I wish I had known about Linux before I bought it.

So, who are you going to believe? Some anonymous coward who mudslings and runs away or someone who is telling the true story of what they experienced?

Re:I don't get it

[ghukov]

Yeah, kinda makes me feel like some sort of uber geek... Linux isn't for everyone. Then again, computers aren't for everyone. (@GP)If anyone wants to learn some linux, start off with a live cd distro so you don't have to trash your hard drive. It took me a few years to get to the level of linux usability I have now. Linux in the home can be quite useful as a firewall, voice mail system, streaming audio player for the living room, file server.... many, many uses.

Re:I don't get it

[penix1]

"My father accepted it well enough (hell, he even told me it was sometimes nicer than Windows) but for the rest of the family it was a no-no. I was keen to learn but the RPM hunt and the randomness of program functioning is what bought me back to Windows."

Your problem was two-fold. First, you are not proficient enough yourself to resolve problems as they arise. This can be frustrating especially if you are under pressure to "make it work!" from others. What you need to do is get another machine (it doesn't have to be top-of-the-line) solely to experiment on. This machine is called in CompSci circles a "testbed". When testing is done and you are sure everything works (and are confident that it will stay that way) then, and only then, install that program on the computers in use. You will be amazed as the levels of frustration drops with the family off your back.

Second, never, never, never try to force someone to use something they don't want to use. There are other ways to make them want to make the switch. For example, I don't clean up my family's computers after they get them infested with spyware, adware, and virii. I let them do it. I may provide pointers from time to time but that is about it. After a few times they will eventually see that you are not doing that constant fight in Linux and may want to try again. The point is, they have to want to do it not you forcing the issue.

B.

Re:I don't get it

[Bent Mind]

I don't have any experience with Ubuntu. However, I have years of experience with SuSE and switched to Gentoo a couple of years back.

RPM hell: RPM (generally) only has problems if you try to install an RPM compiled by someone other than your distro. maintainer. This happens for various reasons. However, with SuSE, it was mainly because the package name includes the version number (rather then using RPM's built-in version handling) and most of the libraries are heavily patched. I switched to Gentoo because I kept finding myself compiling from source to get things working. I figured if I'm compiling from source anyway...

Video card resolution: I've never had a problem getting maximum resolution from a video card. I have one ATI system, the rest are nVidia. I do have problems with color depth though. I can't get 32-bit color to work. 24-bit works fine.

Capture programs: I believe he's talking about Video Capture, not image capture. I don't have any experience with the All-in-Wonder. However, I do have an nVidia GeForce 2 with built-in tuner (can't remember the name of it). I can get it to work with Linux. However, the quality is very poor. I bought a pchdtv card that works like a charm. As a side note, having your tv tuner on your graphics card sucks when you want to play the latest game and it requires an upgrade.

Music/Video skipping: Hmm, check your DMA settings. Maybe your not using your drives at full speed?

My printer (Brother all in one fax/copier/printer) did not work: I also have a Brother all in one. It doesn't work with Linux, even with Cups. I dumped the piece of garbage for an Epson R300. Works like a charm. I'd also recommend HP. The PSC 2400 makes a nice replacement for your Brother.

Couldn't log into my router: Many cheap routers have buggy web interfaces. Does your router support telnet, or better yet ssh?

Linux has it's problems, but then, so does Windows. I have a few webcams that work great under Linux, but don't under XP. The pchdtv also doesn't work under Windows. That said, use what works for you.

yes it is a troll. google the text

[dingfelder]

yes it is a troll. google the text

it was pasted from a post in google groups

Bizarro universe...

[Rufus88]

Is this come kind of joke?

It must be:

32. Defendant slashdot.org is an far-right wing Internet news website [...]

Re:I don't get it

[ozmanjusri]

You know, I find it odd that these people (Who likely tried Fedora) have all these problems

That's because it's not real. These posts are troll/astroturf red herrings designed to deflect discussion from the topic. Take a look at TFA. It's about Microsoft, politics and corruption. Now look at the 400+ postings and you'll see most of them are "My OS is better than yours".

Props to the dude that put this one together. It's successfully stifled what could have been a very interesting discussion about the way business influences policy.