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Windows AntiSpyware Downgrades Claria Detections
accihap writes "A week after word leaked out that Microsoft was negotiating an acquisition deal with Claria (See recent /. coverage), spyware researchers have noticed that the Windows antispyware application has downgraded Claria's Gator detections and changed the recommended action from 'quarantine' to 'ignore.' Screenshots of the new default settings."
Honestly...is anyone surprised by this? We all saw this coming.
Unfortunately, M$ can pull this sort of thing with near-impunity, as the only ones outraged by this are the ones who had issues with them in the first place (read: us).
The vast majority of Windows users out there are just going to shrug and say, "Oh well...if Microsoft says they're not a threat, then they must not be a threat."
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
~sigh~ At least they're still bothering to detect it. But seriously, there isn't a "WTF" big enough to describe this, since it's probably only the tip of the iceberg...
...how quickly corps like MS will sell out their customers to make a quick buck. This is not only found in the Spyware arena but also with companies such as Intel embedding DRM into their chips when coaked by the various entertainment industries.
My 3D Texturing Skinning work (under construction)
Ok. So the anti-spyware program lets the spyware continue operating without flagging it, because it has become spyware itself by association? So now we obviously need to develop an anti-anti spyware program, to fix the problems caused by the anti-spyware, right? That is, until the anti-spyware people declare our anti-anti-spyware to be spyware, in which case we'll have to develop anti-anti-anti-spyware?
This makes my head hurt.
One has to wonder if companies such as Microsoft do things like this intentionally or, as the comment in the article indicated, simply miss some things in the wash?
Either way it will certainly feed the gnashing-of-teeth syndrome that occurs anytime the words 'Microsoft' and 'spyware' are uttered in the same sentence.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Why would anyone rely on a security product of any kind owned by the same people as the OS? Not only are users subjected to this kind of tomfoolery, but in general marketing a security product for your own operating system is like correcting your own spelling test... best left to a third party.
Spyware works because Microsoft designed their softwarein such a way that lets it work. The premise of trusting their anti-spyware tools is ludicrous.
First thing is we need to make sure these images are real. We have been caught with faked images many times before. If they are then I think all it really does is reinforce the need to run multiple anti-spyware utilities.
When a for-profit organization releases a product that can adversely (or positively) affect another for-profit organization we must expect, at least sometimes, to have some negative effects on the consumer. Its a capitalist society and companies are free to do anything and everything they need to maximize profits, within the scope of the law.
This sort of thing boils my blood. There is a certain level of trust I have with a vendor who provides detection and removal of spyware, etc. I've not payed as much attention as maybe I should have, but what other vendors are strong in detecting spyware that don't give in or at least haven't thus far? The product they purchased from Giant was really good to boot. Doesn't take look for the MS taint to occur, does it?
Unrelated, I get the impression, MS doesn't need more competent competition to fail. Instead, they need to continue doing just what they are doing. Between moves like this, the failure to manage projects, etc. they are hurting themselves just fine and making everything that isn't MS look better.
Every so often the MS marketing machine almost gets me to believe they might be changing. The developer blogs have helped a lot in that respect. Then MS does something like this. On the one hand they say they are concerned about this threat and then, not too long into the future, they pull a move like this which says the exact opposite.
http://www.webroot.com/
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
Microsoft purchased the Sasser source code, and has now removed the Sasser definition from it's Antivirus Suites.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
I'd like to see independent evidence before jumping to conclusions. Anyone want to install Gator and test it themselves? :-)
Consumer Reports doesn't accept outside advertising - it'd compromise their ability to do their job.
This is why you want your anti-spyware company making anti-spyware software and nothing else. Of all the software I've installed at one point or another, I remember Gator (along with later versions of Kazaa) being the worst about installing obnoxious unwanted software, not mentioning it, and then the software is a pain in the ass to remove. It clearly SHOULD be targeted by any software out there purporting to keep the user's best interests in mind, but Microsoft the Fox is, once again, guarding the henhouse that is your computer.
Anybody who puts their sole trust in a MS spyware-protector deserves what they get, especially when MS starts buying up spyware companies.
Dare to Hope. Prepare to be Disappointed.
A few people I have spoken with have been telling me how wonderfull this free tool is. I pointed out I don't need said tool as I just run a better OS but now I have a much better comeback next time someone praises MS for releasing this hehe.
How long before MS integrates Gator into the OS where it cannot be removed without corrupting the system?
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Therefore, I offer the following:
And, of course, the usual suspects: Firefox, Thunderbird, Open Office, etc... This is not just a good idea, it's THE LAW on the networks I manage!
Replace your Microsoft software today and avoid 90% of all problems that plague other Windows users.
You are welcome.
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Indeed. In fact, I have to constantly remind the Windows evangelists that the entire spyware and virus problem has created a cottage industry, and as long as Microsoft can make money off of it, they will choose never to solve it.
--Storm
Just yesterday I was helping a neighbor clean-up his girlfriend's parents' computer (how do I get roped into things like that?) So, I install the 3 big ad-removers; Spybot S&D, Adaware, and MS AntiSpyware. I ran the MS one first since Spybot kept crashing when doing the cleanup (very mean buggers). I noticed that the Claria stuff was all set to ignore after it detected it. I didn't think much of it and set all of them to quarantine, but I did think it was a little odd.
Anyways, CONFIRMED.
Come on now, all, there is probably a completely reasonable explanation for this. You know, like their software can only handle 1023 programs being classified as "Quarantine". They just had to clear some out to make room. :P
Friggin' M$.
We've all put up with fixing Windows for a living or maybe circle of family and friends. If your really unlucky, both. When I think about the time I've put into getting spyware off my [Pastor's, Father's, Sister's] computer, and then consider that Microsoft is (inexplicably?) getting into the Spyware game themselves, it's time to stop.
At this point I'm only supporting OS X and recommending anyone to get a Mac Mini when applicable. The world has moved on, the browser is the new platform, and it's time to stop supporting Microsoft if they continue to make the user experience miserable.
People might still complain a Mac Mini is expensive, but if you stop fixing Windows for them -- those Best Buy Geek Squad visits aren't cheap, either.
At first people thought:
1. MS buying Giant means putting a great anti-spyware product into Windows. Windows becomes *stronger* at stopping such attacks.
2. MS possibly buying Claria means that Microsoft could eliminate one of the biggest pieces of spyware out there. In other words, Claria/Gator becomes *weaker*.
Now, it's possible that things will look like this:
1. Anti-spyware becomes *weaker*.
2. Claria/Gator becomes *stronger*.
So much for doing the right thing(s).
Hey, look at the bright side, at least it detects their software and doesn't ignore it completely! Can anyone else tell me a company that would not do the same? Anti-anti-spyware anyone?
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
I've got multiple boxes at my place, and while most of them are Linux / BSD, I keep windows on a laptop. I've brought this laptop (running win2k pro) to different wireless hotspots, different ethernet lan hookups, and even into my friends apartments and hopped on their lan, with insecure machines.
My laptop does not have an antivirus, spyware remover, or firewall. However, I've never had a problem. Probably because I update windows every time I use the computer and I disabled all but the imperative system services. And I've never had a virus, spyware, or any other sort of issue. Then again, I use firefox w/ flashblock & adblock and the like.
Is this the case for other slashdotters? Or am I the luckiest person this side of the Atlantic?
Remember this?
January 7, 2005
Betting a Billion
Bob's Predictions for 2005
By Robert X. Cringely
1) Microsoft's entry into the anti-virus and anti-spyware businesses will be a disaster for users. This is based on everything I know about Microsoft, having watched the company for almost 28 years. They will make a big fanfare, spend a lot of marketing dollars, but in the end, the company simply won't be able to keep up with the demands of keeping virus signatures current, which isn't the real point of this gambit, anyway. There is so much to this story and so much that I could write that I think I'll do so next week, and just move on to the next prediction.
I'm wondering: if anyone out there actually still trusts Microsoft (rhetoric: of course, some people do), is there any demonstrably good reason for that trust or are they just ignorant/apathetic?
I suppose another way to ask this question is why the Revolution(tm) hasn't come yet...
$p$g
I independently observed the same thing -- Claria set to Ignore within MSAS. See image on my site, final paragraph of http://www.benedelman.org/news/063005-1.html .
Proof that Bill Gates is the Devil The real name of "the" Bill Gates is William Henry Gates III. Nowadays he is known as Bill Gates (III), where "III" means the order of third (3rd.) By converting the letters of his current name to the ASCII-values and adding his (III), you get the following: B 66 I 73 L 76 L 76 G 71 A 65 T 84 E 69 S 83 + 3 -------------- 666 !! Some might ask, "How did Bill Gates get so powerful?" Coincidence? Or just the beginning of mankind's ultimate and total enslavement??? Before you decide, consider the following: M S - D O S 6 . 2 1 77+83+45+68+79+83+32+54+46+50+49 = 666 W I N D O W S 9 5 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666 Coincidence? You decide...
I don't know why anyone would think otherwise. Everything that Microsoft puts on your computer wants to call back home and report on what you do and how you do it. Everything Claria trys to put on your computer wants to call back home and report your every action and keystroke. So running any 'Microsoft spyware' in the first place is like letting a burglar watch your home. What did you expect would eventually happen?
Enjoy your Karma, after all you earned it. Feel your Karma Joe, feel it burn.
Do you have to know somebody to get a story posted???
Well considering he said "networks he manages" I doubt that replacing windows is an option. You've never really had fun until you've tried to explain to a CIO or equivelant that some of the software (especially the OS) that they are using in a company with 20,000 computers causes all kinds of problems. You generally get a blank stare back and a comment like "But it is Windows, which is secure, right?". Love clueless upper management.
A week after word leaked out that Microsoft was negotiating an acquisition deal with Claria (See recent /. coverage), spyware researchers have noticed that the Windows antispyware application has downgraded Claria's Gator detections and changed the recommended action from 'quarantine' to 'ignore.'
A week after I start dating some totally hot babe, event though she's a nagging idiot, I've downgraded my idiot detections and changed my recommended action from "quarantine" to "ignore".
-kgj
-kgj
Why would anyone rely on a security product of any kind owned by the same people as the OS?
I think it's more to the point that security products shouldn't be trusted from companies who try to make alliances within the computer industry. Security products should protect the user, not contractual obligations.
Who would you trust more: a freelance movie critic or a movie critic hired by a movie studio?
Part of the article...
Sunbeltblog reports: A brief check of our database updates from Microsoft shows that Claria adware has been set to a default action of "Ignore" since at least early June (Claria continues to be listed in our database with a default action of "Quarantine").
You might recall that Microsoft acquired its antispyware application from GIANT, who had a close business relationship with Sunbelt Software. As part of the deal, Sunbelt continues to receive definitions from Microsoft until June 2007. Sunbelt, however, has its own research team and adds its own definitions to the database in addition to what they get from Microsoft.
In the current Spyware Weekly newsletter, Mike Healan of SpywareInfo.com comments:
I can't imagine what they are thinking at Microsoft. I would be hard pressed to think of a better way for Microsoft to alienate their users. I certainly hope that the opposition from within Microsoft prevails and that this deal dies on the negotiating table.
Ben Edelman has updated his write up to include the news of the changed detections.
This is exactly the kind of conflict of interest I worried about three paragraphs above--but I didn't anticipate how quickly this problem would come into effect!
Wayne Porter, blogging at ReveNews calls it Conflict of Interest 102 His site at SpywareGuide.com reports, interestingly enough, that Gator (Claria) is currently the top detection. See the site for full the top 10 list.
1 Gator 6.55% 2 MySearch 5.53% 3 CoolWebSearch 4.38% 4 180 Search Assistant 4.02%
Yes, it's true that the usual reaction to MS stories tends to be kneejerk criticism often without much evidence of thought or rational balance. The baby gets the old heave ho along with the bath water more times than not. I usually urge a more reasonable approach based on the real contributions that MS has made to the IT industry and the fact that most major corporations behave the same way. I may not agree with MS's methods, but I try to keep an open mind, always aware of what MS has always represented. That said...NOT THIS TIME!
It's bad enough that the most pernicious and persistant tattle tale software on a MS box is probably the operating system. Take for example the index files in WIN98 that have never been explaned, the automatic updates in apps that can't be disabled, and services that reinstall themselves behind your back. I really do buy the 'least common denominator' explanation for a lot of these 'features', most users really don't understand their computers enough to maintain them, much less integrate new codecs, standards, and protocols. I do believe that making the default behaviors in many programs more update and security focused was a necessary step. MS often gets a bad rap for problems users could avoid by performing their recommended chores, especially installing patches. Bill Gates has recently touted a new focus on security, wanting to win back some customer trust. Whew, it was nice to see MS finally starting to turn in a new direction. Maybe I should have known better. The attitude expressed in this situation seems to be "Oh that's OK, it's just us, your friendly neighborhood MS. It was bad when those other guys did it, but you can trust us! By the way, could you enter your 16 digit authentication code and explain what that new unsupported by XP hardware is, since we really can't trust you?"
Microsoft could take the lead in creating really secure, customer oriented products. Maybe they would make a little less money if they gave up the drive to control every part of the industry. Would that kill them? IT is past the point where it needs one firm hand on the tiller to keep from sinking. Microsoft has the power and influence to change the face of software development. They could help make the world a better, freer place. Too bad the accountants have taken over from the dreamers.
billy - say it ain't so Bill...
MSAS leaves all "Moderate" threats at Ignore, because they are often relatively well-behaved components of ad-supported software.
MS isn't dumb, and they have criteria for determining what is a moderate/high/critical spyware threat. A lot of times it comes from feedback to SpyNet. If adware comes bundled with an ad-supported product, doesn't hijack your browser, and removes cleanly when you uninstall the software it supports, it's a only moderate threat.
MS is also a big legal target and a monster in the eyes of many smaller software companies. They'd be getting sued non-stop if MSAS indiscriminately removed the adware from ad-supported products.
I did a cleanup of a seriously crufted-up machine last night. Claria, 180Solutions, WhenU, Comet Cursors were all set to Ignore. Kazaa and BearShare were set to Quarantine, and quarantining them would have snagged the adware they came bundled with.
CoolWebSearch, VX2, and the other real bastards were rated "Critical Risk" and set to "Remove."
I set everything to "Remove" and MSAS did just that without problems. Can't really complain.
This has been and always will be Microsoft's downfall. They just can't resist dipping their hands in the money jar. You can't compromise your alleged integrity and at the same time expect to be a trusted purveyor of security software.
Yes, my only tool is a hammer. And you're starting to look like a nail.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a silk purse out of a pig in a poke."
As stated in my sig, I don't hate Microsoft. Initially, I was shocked by this /. article, but after a little bit of thought, I could see this as being a very reasonable change.
Hear me out...
Microsoft buys Claria/Gator/whatever-it-is. Microsoft shuts down the server that collected the stollen customer information. The "spy" part of the spyware is now completely harmless. Additionally, Microsoft may have examined the source code and discovered that it's installation makes some change to Windows that may be dangerous to undo. An ad-supported application could cease to function, or worse.
As this spyware is effectively no longer spying, it is less of a threat and removal of it could be potentially problematic, so the default should be the safest choice: ignore.
I may be wrong, but I think this is a perfectly logical and moral change.
http://brandonbloom.name