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ESRB Revokes San Andreas Rating

Posted by Zonk on from the wow dept.

Alex Blonski writes "In a stunning move, the ESRB has advised retailers to stop selling Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. This report follows public pressure over the Hot Coffee debacle. Rockstar, the publishers of the game have given retailers the option of restickering the game with an 18+ rating or exchanging it for a new version with the controversial content removed. ESRB head Patricia Vance says 'After a thorough investigation, we have concluded that sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs of all three platform versions of the game (i.e., PC CD-ROM, Xbox and PS2). However, the material was programmed by Rockstar to be inaccessible to the player and they have stated that it was never intended to be made accessible. The material can only be accessed by downloading a software patch, created by an independent third party without Rockstar's permission, which is now freely available on the internet and through console accessories. Considering the existence of the undisclosed and highly pertinent content on the final discs, compounded by the broad distribution of the third party modification, the credibility and utility of the initial ESRB rating has been seriously undermined.'"

56 of 913 comments (clear)

  1. People are still having sex by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    This makes me want to kill the ESRB board, but I will do one better, I will run around naked in front of them. Well at least now we have a new scapegoat, the Doom one was getting old...

    1. Re:People are still having sex by Valiss · · Score: 5, Funny

      This makes me want to kill the ESRB board, but I will do one better, I will run around naked in front of them.

      Whoa! Hold up there, champ. It's one thing to threaten some violence, but threatening nudity? Now you've gone too far! Think of the children!!

      --

      -Valiss
    2. Re:People are still having sex by badmammajamma · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, running around carjacking cars, shooting people, and beating up whores is American as apple pie but SEX?!?! OMFG...what are you people thinking?!

      --
      Any man who afflicts the human race with ideas must be prepared to see them misunderstood. -- H. L. Mencken
    3. Re:People are still having sex by turgid · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Pah! Nudity? What about consensual constructive adult nudity as an act of love which is intended to create new life?

      Come to think of it, no. Bring on the guns and bombs.

      --
      Stick Men
    4. Re:People are still having sex by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 4, Insightful
      What about consensual constructive adult nudity as an act of love which is intended to create new life?

      I don't think I've ever seen that in a game, and rarely have I seen in in movies. Screwing and fucking in lust, yes, but never what you described.

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    5. Re:People are still having sex by Vulture101 · · Score: 5, Insightful


      Just like in the dark ages: you can have public executions and torture sessions but you cant even _think_ about sex.

      history repeats itself...

    6. Re:People are still having sex by alan_dershowitz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, cuz "Hot Coffee" is all about the procreative "love". Right there in between the homicide.

    7. Re:People are still having sex by squoozer · · Score: 5, Funny

      running around carjacking cars

      Erm, what else would you carjack? Zimmer frames maybe?

      --
      I used to have a better sig but it broke.
    8. Re:People are still having sex by doubledoh · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe that's because there's nothing wrong with sex.

      --
      I think, therefore I doh.
    9. Re:People are still having sex by doubledoh · · Score: 4, Funny
      'Hot Coffee' depicts a blowjob.

      I find it amusing and ironic that Hillary Clinton is spearheading the crackdown on this game especially in light of this particular content...

      Perhaps she's focusing her anger in the wrong place?

      --
      I think, therefore I doh.
    10. Re:People are still having sex by lymond01 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Attitudes about sex are strongly influenced by culture.

      If only there were more gangs throwing condoms or orgy invitations out their windows instead of bullets...

    11. Re:People are still having sex by arkanes · · Score: 4, Insightful
      No, they got the M rating based on the game as shipped. I can make my desktop background tiled pictures of enourmous penises with less effort than it would take anyone to unlock this content in GTA. Where the hell is the AO rating on Windows?

      In fairness, Tycho has a point. We let a lot of crap slide. By all rights, GTA as shipped should have had an AO. Halo should have had an AO. The difference between the M rating and the AO rating is *one year* and a bunch of sales - it's stupid. It's exactly the same with movies, too. But as a culture we're hypocrites and every so often we need to sacrifice someone up the "think of the children" gods, and Rockstar certainly has put themselves out there to be the goat.

      If you, as parent, approved of GTA for your child last week, and now don't because a patch downloaded from the internet can show you non-explicit sex, then you're a shitty excuse for a parent and a worse one for a human, and regardless what Rockstar did or didn't do, and regardless of they hypocritical bullshit pandering that the ESRB and our politicians do, you shouldn't have any say in what *any* child does. To anyone with half a brain, this is a non-issue.

    12. Re:People are still having sex by pyrrhonist · · Score: 4, Funny
      'Hot Coffee' depicts a blowjob. There'll be no new life coming from that

      I would hope not, because it would be really unseemly if women could deliver babies by reverse peristalsis.

      *baaaaaaarrrrrffff* WAAAAAHH!!!

      --
      Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
    13. Re:People are still having sex by Lemmy+Caution · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Look, including the content and making it inaccessible without a minor hack is no accident. It's a brilliant move. But it's disingenous to think that they "didn't mean" for anyone to access it.

      Think about it: all the people with the PS/2 or Xbox version of the game who ran out and actually bought the PC version of the game just so they could use the Hot Coffee mod. The fact that it's going to be rated "AO" now is irrelevant - sales are going to soar for the title no matter what.

      The ESRB is doing exactly what it should, and, to be honest, Rockstar is still going to benefit from it. Penny Arcade was right about just how disingenous the cries of innocence on the part of Rockstar really are. If ESRB didn't act, it would become irrelevant - and less voluntary measures would come into force.

      I can't believe that no one realizes how Rockstar has had a win-win situation in all this all along.

    14. Re:People are still having sex by Flunitrazepam · · Score: 5, Funny

      "Sex isn't rare."

      You must be new here

      --
      1) Your analysis is based on bad assumptions so your result is way off. 2) You're a sick bastard for fucking a horse.
    15. Re:People are still having sex by starakurva · · Score: 4, Funny

      Perhaps Evilpiper would have gotten a few mod points and a "funny" if only he'd put his "list" in a different order, forming a different acronym...

      --
      All you need is lurv.
    16. Re:People are still having sex by BackInIraq · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The difference between the M rating and the AO rating is *one year* and a bunch of sales - it's stupid. It's exactly the same with movies, too.

      No, even with movies the difference between R and NC-17 is a lot larger. For those that may not know, any parent can take their 6 year old kid into an R-rated movie at the theater. But if a movie is rated NC-17, children CANNOT attend, even with parents present. This is the reason that most theaters will not take up screenspace with NC-17 movies...the market is a lot smaller, because parents are unable to make the decision for themselves.

      A parent can, however, choose to buy an AO rated game for their kids.

      If you, as parent, approved of GTA for your child last week, and now don't because a patch downloaded from the internet can show you non-explicit sex, then you're a shitty excuse for a parent and a worse one for a human, and regardless what Rockstar did or didn't do, and regardless of they hypocritical bullshit pandering that the ESRB and our politicians do, you shouldn't have any say in what *any* child does. To anyone with half a brain, this is a non-issue.

      Especially because last week the game was already rated M, and recommended only for age 17 and up. Unless I'm mistaken, a large portion of American teenagers age 17 and up have already had sex. It's the stupid-ass parents who didn't understand what an M rating meant and bought it for their 12 year olds that are getting so upset. And I say screw those idiots.

  2. In other news... by DeathPenguin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    In a move equally stunning to neglegent parents everywhere, Captain Obvious has advised that people stop paying attention to the ESRB and take a more proactive stance in monitoring the content that they're buying for their kids. He also advised that parents pay more attention to other aspects of games, such as violence and racial overtones, and not use sex alone as a deciding factor for whether or not to buy a game, movie, music CD, etc. Experts predict that people will ignore this advice and continue to rely on other people to raise their kids for them.

    1. Re:In other news... by fbartho · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I personally think its gotta get boring to have to keep repeating that mantra over and over again. You're a parent, its your job to raise your kids. Its ultimately your responsibility. All these social systems to supposedly protect your children are really there to protect your children if you don't do a good enough job in protecting them yourself. This means that broadcast TV had pressures to be family oriented, both because parents wanted to be able to watch things with their kids, but also because TV would be a convenient device that serves as an electronic nanny. As long as the runt is glued to the TV/Game Console, they can't fall down the stairs with scissors. The problem comes from the things we don't normally view as sharp/dangerous, that are corrupting our kids minds. Raising a kid is a full-time job, at times more than even 2 people can comfortably handle. There is risk in the real world, but every parent has to choose what is an acceptable risk level for kids. If they err on the side of danger, their kids may get hurt, and it will be their fault.

      --
      Gravity Sucks
    2. Re:In other news... by Sheetrock · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Since this "tough on media violence/obscenity" rhetoric has been stepped up again, I've noticed at two stores a new policy of asking for a birthdate or age before selling both games and movies with an ESRB M/MPAA R rating. No carding yet, although I bet it happens if you look younger than 17 or the checkout staff is in a bad mood.

      It's annoying enough that I'm just buying my media online now.

      What bothers me is that irregardless of the fact that this game is effectively a murder/obscenity simulator that should never fall into the hands of children forcing Rockstar to recall/modify their game or be relabeled AO is effectively censorship, albeit one that takes advantage of economics rather than legal force to effect the views of the minority over the majority. Most stores refuse to carry AO titles and therefore artificially decrease the audience for the game, putting severe pressure on the manufacturer to cater to the distribution chain by watering down their content or simply shelve products that would have been successes but for the fact that they are offered only through adult-only resellers (a chilling effect on customers who simply want to enjoy a game released as the developer intended without having porn businesses appear on their credit card statements.)

      --

      Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
      -- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.




    3. Re:In other news... by Rei · · Score: 4, Funny

      Bah! Captain Obvious is one to talk, given that his video game ("Captain Obvious vs. the Braindead Senators") had a patch that enabled such a scene as well (in which, for the most part) Captain Obvious stood on the sidelines, watching and snidely pointing out the fundamentals every time one participant did something wrong).

      --
      Point of interest. Offering to shoot us might not work so well as an incentive as you might imagine.
    4. Re:In other news... by Ravatar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Rockstar did not give out documentation on how to enable the mod, and included no mechanics to access it. A game should not be rated by third party patches and mods.

      There are nude patches for the Sims, but you don't see little Suzie being carded for a new expansion every month, and you certainly don't see it getting slapped with a M or AO rating.

  3. In further news... by Werkhaus · · Score: 5, Funny

    People found to be naked under clothes.

  4. No Sex please, we are Br^H^H by DF5JT · · Score: 4, Funny

    Merkins.

    'Nuff said.

  5. nice publicity by lecithin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "However, the material was programmed by Rockstar to be inaccessible to the player and they have stated that it was never intended to be made accessible."

    Right. Sure.

    What would the reason be to put it in there then? Perhaps the publicity that they are getting now? My 8 y/o son would not have known about GTA except that it has been in the news lately. (Yep, an 8 y/o that watches the news)

    "Rockstar, the publishers of the game have given retailers the option of restickering the game with an 18+ rating or exchanging it for a new version with the controversial content removed."

    Well, I suspect that most will put a sticker on the game and continue to sell as usual. I also suspect that if a 15 y/o wants to buy one, they still will be able to do so.

    --
    It could be worse, it could be Monday.
    1. Re:nice publicity by Acy+James+Stapp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a game developer, sometimes you write something and the suits say you can't put it in, so you just comment out the call to activate it. It's a lot easier than pulling all the source and assets out of the game. Time pressures abound and a thirty-second fix impresses the higher-ups a lot more than a two-day hunt to find and remove all of the offending assets.

      --
      -- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
    2. Re:nice publicity by the_skywise · · Score: 4, Informative

      As an ex-game programmer, there's TONS of stuff we left in various games. Some intentional, some not so intentional.

      I can't speak for how GTA is setup, but in our case some of the stuff went out because of a lock down in the code/data. When *any* change would be considered a potential to introduce bugs it was safer to lock down *everything* and go as it was.

  6. Hmm.. by trmj · · Score: 4, Informative

    I believe that Penny Arcade's news and comic today sum up this whole situation best.

    --
    Work sucked, until it became unemployment, when it became slightly more tolerable. -Tet
  7. The Video by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    GTA San Andreas "Hot Coffee"

    Coral Cache of some of the content in question:

    http://files.gtanet.com.nyud.net:8090/gtasa/videos /hotcoffee.wmv

    Get it while it's hot?

  8. Is "The Sims" also rated AO? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    because of the "nude Sims" patch floating around?

    1. Re:Is "The Sims" also rated AO? by m50d · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know people don't RTFA, but is it too much to ask to RTFSummary? "After a thorough investigation, we have concluded that sexually explicit material exists in a fully rendered, unmodified form on the final discs". That's the difference.

      --
      I am trolling
    2. Re:Is "The Sims" also rated AO? by Nf1nk · · Score: 4, Informative

      on the sims2 there is a simple one word cheat you can type and eliminate the blurring, giving you access to far more nudity and sex than the hot coffie hack, to be fair the hot coffie section is more graphic. but the sims 2 is still rated T

      --
      I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
  9. America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a British person (of 15 years of age), I pity you Americans. What the fuck is your problem with the human body? Why an 18+ when the 17+ was appropriate for the game, even with the minigame?

    1. Re:America by RexRhino · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pity yourself. All video games in England need to go through the British Board of Film Censors, and some have already been banned (no video games have been banned in the United States, by the way). GTA:SA is ALREADY rated 18+ in England. British regulation is far more strict than in the United States.

      The difference is that in the U.S. censorship is still controversial, where as in the U.K. is happens without anyone taking a notice.

    2. Re:America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The difference is that in the UK, games with an 18+ rating still sell, stores still stock them, there's no problem. A game company can make an 18+ game, and still make money.

      Censorship exists in the US, just in the guise of something else.

  10. 17+, 18+, whatever... by ivan256 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Clearly in that critical year you become mature enough to be allowed to consume renderings of fully clothed individuals in sexual positions.

    Seventeen year-olds just aren't ready for that kind of stuff yet. Their exposure to sexual situations should be limited to what they do with their boyfriends/girlfriends in the back seat of their parent's car when they're "at the movies."

    Oh, BTW, to all the parents out there... Your 8 year old probably says 'fuck' all the time when he knows you're not around, so you can get over yourself already.

    1. Re:17+, 18+, whatever... by houghi · · Score: 4, Informative

      And thanks to internet, they can learn how to use it coorectly:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuck

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  11. A generation is saved! by TopShelf · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA:

    Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO - News) announced today that the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) has changed the rating of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas on all platforms from "Mature 17+" (M) to "Adults Only 18+"

    So basically, they've made the decision that 17 year-olds just shouldn't see this two-bit low-res porn hack, and stick with the carjacking, wanton murder, and other wholesome activites within GTA. 18 year-olds are qualified for the whole ball o' wax, though.

    Amazing...

    --
    Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
  12. Beginning of the End by Shky · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This whole debacle is bad news. If retailers don't stop selling it, we're all in trouble. If the ESRB loses all credibility, the only thing stopping a full-on onslaught of legislative parenting will be gone. If the video game industry 'can't be trusted' to rule itself, the government will have to step in. Australia-like bans will be coming to a USA and Canada near you.

    --
    CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
  13. Also in further news by pHatidic · · Score: 5, Funny

    Bicycles are made illegal because children can go on the Internet and download porn.

  14. Re:Of course by NineNine · · Score: 5, Funny

    If that's true, then I need to look into changing my citizenship status to become French! I'll take sex over violence *any day*.

  15. sex? by DanThe1Man · · Score: 5, Funny

    I can get sex in a patch now? Like Nicorette?

    That would save a lot of wrist strain.

  16. Hillary using it to get re-elected... by HockeyPuck · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In other news...

    Hillary Clinton (who makes ~$162k http://people.howstuffworks.com/question449.htm) has decided that it's in her best interest to waste her time (and our tax dollars). I'm sure that the FTC has better things to do than to investigate RockStar Entertainment... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4682533.stm

  17. this is the hard way to see porn via internet by pezpunk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    i mean really. if a kid can download and apply a patch, he is already in a position to see way more nudity than what is offered in this game.

    you may think that's a strawman, bringing up internet porn, but think about it. the point of the ESRB rating is to inform the parents of the content of the game. which, in my opinion, the "M" rating did accurately. the sex scenes aren't in the game. they were disabled.

    from a parent's standpoint, what is the difference between downloading a third-party mod that enables disabled content, and applying a third-party mod that adds newly-created content? they are identical in their difficulty/accessibility to a kid, and both insert content into the game that the developer did not intend to appear there!

    it is drawing boobies on the title page of "Harry Potter" and then sueing JK Rowling, citing an unfinished but steamy scene she deleted from her hard drive as evidence.

    --
    i could live a little longer in this prison
    1. Re:this is the hard way to see porn via internet by cmdr_beeftaco · · Score: 4, Funny

      Depends. Are they big boobs?

    2. Re:this is the hard way to see porn via internet by coopaq · · Score: 5, Insightful
      i mean really. if a kid can download and apply a patch, he is already in a position to see way more nudity than what is offered in this game.

      Children aren't bothered by nudity. Only the adults are.

  18. When did America lose its mind? by defile · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The game allows you to...

    • Pull people out of their cars and drive away in them
    • Steal military weapons
    • Destroy property
    • Injure and kill completely innocent bystanders
    • Develop a criminal enterprise
    • Carry out the orders of corrupt police officers
    • Pick up prostitutes
    • Burn down a pot farm
    and so far it's been pretty smooth sailing, but once you can have vivid consensual sex, but only through extensive third party modification, everyone flips out?!
    1. Re:When did America lose its mind? by Soporific · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, I was with you on everything until you said burn down a pot farm. Now that is just wrong!

      ~S

    2. Re:When did America lose its mind? by fonetik · · Score: 5, Funny
      You really should incorporate into this list that you can actually beat a hooker, or anyone for that matter, to death with a large purple dildo.

      ...but nipples are absolutely for adults only.

  19. What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The SIMS has an ESRB rating of E-T (Everyone/Teens). However, there is a patch available for The SIMS that removes the dithering done when they are changing clothes, allowing one to see buck naked SIMS!. Doesn't this mean the ESRB should also revoke The SIMS "Everyone" rating?

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  20. Re:Of course by houghi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unfortunately, show me a country that doesn't rely on war to keep the peace and I'll show you a country that is ripe for the taking by one that does.

    Switzerland?

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  21. Boots excepted by cryptochrome · · Score: 4, Funny

    From what I understand the sex scenes aren't even particularly explicit. Who does it with their clothes on, I mean really?

    Oh wait, considering how objectionable these people seem to think this scene is, they probably ARE the type of people who do it with their clothes on.

    --

    ---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?

  22. Further in further news by sockonafish · · Score: 4, Funny

    The internet has been banned because of the possibility that children may buy bicycles online.

  23. I think GTA needs more explicit sex, not less by tokengeekgrrl · · Score: 4, Funny

    Think about it. GTA is the perfect medium by which to teach guys how to *really* pleasure a woman. As long as the gameplay makes you work for the woman's orgasm, meaning you're going to have to work those controls for more than 5 minutes guys, I say bring it on.

    GTA: Turning Geeks into Better Lovers

    ~tokengeekgrrl

  24. An important thing to realize.. by vhold · · Score: 4, Informative
    A lot of people are running around in here wondering what is so important between M and AO as if there is no big reason for R* to care.

    Basically Wal-mart won't carry AO.

    Senate Testimony to that effect
    In the case of video games (for example, Sony Playstation or Nintendo games) and computer software, we use the ESRB, Entertainment Software Rating Board, ratings (EC, E, T, M, and AO) as we make decisions about which products to carry. We do not carry software rated adults only (as rated by the ESRB). As a rule, we do not carry Parental Advisory stickered products.
    That is all.
  25. Yet Further in further news by ShadowEFX · · Score: 5, Funny

    Children are banned, having been found to be a result of pornography.