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U.S. House Votes to Extend Patriot Act
Rick Zeman writes "In the wake of today's 4 dud bombings in London, the U.S. House has voted to extend the Patriot Act by a vote of 257-171. This includes 10-year extensions to the two other provisions set to expire on December 31, one allowing roving wiretaps, and another allowing searches of library and medical records."
Gotta love the excuses that cost us our freedoms...
The Dem's sound bite on this is that they support the extension, but they have some "concerns" about civil liberties. Gee, thanks a shitload for giving us absolutely nowhere to turn to for sanity in this country. I apologize to the few honest politicians left out there for saying that the entire system is fucked.
They're also trying to make hay by criticizing the war in Iraq. But where the fuck were they before we, for the first time in history, started a war where none already existed?
Fuck you, Bill Clinton, for demeaning the office of President in such a way that infinitely corrupt GW could trick a bunch of right wing zealots to vote for him despite the pain he has caused.
"The terrorists will never succeed in taking away our freedoms and civil liberties!"
Well, technically, they're using our own politicians to accomplish that, if that is indeed their goal. Now that is a feat: getting your enemy to obtain your goal for you.
Yes, the house voted to extend it, but it still has to make it through the senate, which will be an interesting process.
I'm just interested in seeing how quickly the conspiracy theorist start spewing stories about how the U.S. was involved in this because only the detonators went off.
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"the US House has voted to extend the Patriot Act"
If I'm reading the article right, I'd say "extend" isn't quite strong enough of a word:
From the article: "The bulk of the back-and-forth centered on language making permanent 14 of 16 provisions that had four-year sunset provisions under the original law..."
I have to strongly agree with the critics mentioned in the article, who "said the sunsets were wisely inserted amid the inflamed passions following the September 11 attacks, and should be retained to assess the long-term impact of the law."
Guess the House didn't think so.
I was going to say the same thing. The terrorists have won again, not because they killed 50 people with some bus bombings, or 2,000 people with a few planes, but because their random acts of murder make our leaders think that they can make the world a better place by taking away freedoms.
Our governments have taken away far more freedoms from us than the terrorists ever have. Good job, terrorists: mission accomplished.
I could not agree more. This is one documentary that everyone should see.
It's a pretty comprehensive look at the history and motivations BEHIND the threats we are facing, from both the terrorists and the American government. Yes, at times it's not even trying to be objective, but still a lot of the events and facts that are presented are historical record and are considered far too little today.
If only this was shown in American prime-time, people may start thinking more critically about the moves we are taking now...
I still shiver now when I hear the song "Baby it's cold outside".
What post? The one you're carrying inside your rusty innards!
Bills like this should not even be discussed in our country. There is no reason to calm down.
It is offensive that laws like the PATRIOT act are even discussed in this country, let alone passed the first time.
People act as if having any of these provisions striken is a victory. The fact that secret trials, the seizure of library and medical records, and roving wiretaps are even discussed in this country should offend you.
Well consider it like this AC, if I ask you which country monitors their citizens' library records and phone calls, would you say a) it's some Middle Eastern regime, or b) the US?
These laws have brought the US one step closer to being the sort of nation that is closer to "Utopia according to Bin Laden". Still liking it?
When religious zealots run the country appoint one of themselves to the Supreme Court and cry and whine about a nipple on television, it gets one step closer to Bin-Laden-Land, albeit with the Lord Almighty instead of Allah, but heck I don't see the difference.
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
"I don't want to hear your wild insane "Bush can knock down my door without a warrant" theories, I want to know how YOU have been negatively effected by the patriot act."
My money is funding it.
The GOP died decades ago, enjoy your neo-"conservative" agendas and lack of ability to handle finances.
Well it certainly sounds like they have some pretty hard evidence, so why don't they try him?
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
If we were winning the war, then the number of suicide bombers in Baghdad would be decreasing rather than increasing. As I said, this is turning into another Vietnam which will again demonstrate that technology CANNOT defeat an enemy who has the power of his convictions. We lost ~60000 men in Vietnam, the Vietcong lost more than 2 million - yet we left in shame.
You didn't read anything I wrote, did you? Osama bin Laden has called for and gotten Jihad against America because American soldiers are stationed in Saudi Arabia, home of Mecca. HE FRACKING SAYS SO. If America withdraws it's forces from Saudi Arabia, he'll end the Jihad!!! But as I said, we won't do that for obvious reasons. Furthermore, if rejecting Islam was the reason that Osama hates us, then shouldn't he also be waging war on China?
Kill or capture all Islamic terrorists? Sure - just like each retaliatory strike by Israel against Hamas prevents violence rather than inciting more of it. Converting to Islam? Simply not going to happen. Removing our troops from the Holy Land of Mecca just like Osama wants? Not going to happen either. If it weren't for oil, we wouldn't give a flying damn about the middle east. Either we prop up corrupt dictatorships for oil and have to live with terrorists or we stop sucking the oil tit. It's obvious which we're choosing.
Bush is doing the 'right thing?' Was he doing the right thing when he 'fixed the facts around the policy' of war with Iraq? When he failed to fire Rove and Libby for exposing Valery Plame becasue her husband exposed his lie about the Niger yellowcake? When he entered Iraq with no plan to exit? Don't delude yourself - Bush didn't invade Iraq because Saddam is a nasty meanie person. He invaded Iraq because Iraq has 1/4 of the world's oil reserves, and his advisors would rather enrich their former employers than invest 200 billion dollars in alternative energy.
did you miss the part about the "vocal fringe lunatics" being 49% of this country? Bush was elected on a very narrow margin Dr. Troll and there are a lot of us who don't believe in his policies.
"The root cause of Islamic hatred toward America and the west is our success and our rejection if Islam"
Bullshit, it's fringe religious nuts who hate the west. Most Moslems don't, don't support terrorism, and are good, normal people. Interestingly, the beliefs of the fringe groups that fund the terrorism have a great deal in common with the right wing christian ultra-conservatives in this country (including both hating freedom and those who disagree with them).
Bush has convictions - he knows he's doing the right thing
That's the worst part, the inability of the right wing nuts who control this country to deffirentiate between "the right thing" and "our beliefs". Bush beleives that he is Right and refuses to ever admit that he is wrong. This is not a strength but a terrible weakness. There is no shame in being wrong once in a while, there is shame in convering the fact up to avoid embarassment.
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
Oh yeah, IT HASN'T. Unless your name is Habib and you wear a turbin to work then nobody gives a fvck what you do. I also know that if 9/11 occurred during the presidency of a Democrat you'd be STFUing right about now, you wouldn't even see 100000 crap articles like this on slashdot.
People named Habib who wear turbans to work deserve the same rights under the Constitution as those named Steve. By denying them that right, we are violating the fundamental principles of our society; of MY society. The laws and principles of MY country are being violated, and my fellow citizens (many of whom are named Habib) being denied their rights as citizens.
That anyone in DC even gives such a concept consideration is apauling and offensive.
As for a Democratic president, there were terrorist attacks under the last Democrat. The Bill of Rights was not violated under him the way it is being now. Instead, we had an impeachment hearing about a blow job.
You're right. Under a Democrat, we'd not be having this discussion. We'd be paying attention to a fake scandal cooked up by political hacks in order to cripple him. Welcome to Modern America.
--GrouchoMarx
Card-carrying member of the EFF, FSF, and ACLU. Are you?
very good comrade! although your newspeak is a bit disturbing.
please report to the ministry of truth for re-education.
Oh and remember there will be an additional gas ration card for anyone that turns in a suspected terrorist this month.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
I find your sig...
...amusingly prophetic.
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free. -- Goethe"
Oh please, this is just typical liberal socialist scare mongering.
... What happens then? Well, if the police and DA's office believe you're the one, then they'll put the full weight of their power squarely on your back until you break. Even better, if Patriot II is passed, and you're mistaken for a wrong-doer, you can disappear in the middle of the night and no one will know why. Grand.
:)
Yeah, gonna have to disagree with you there. I've been a staunch Republican all of my voting life, I even voted for GWB twice. But, frankly, the people currently calling themselves Republican are nothing more than "The Tax & Spend Christian Party", imposing their warped, hypocritical and hateful religious agenda on the country and the world. I used to believe that if I wasn't doing anything wrong, I had nothing to fear, but I don't believe it anymore.
You even point it out in your argument Well maybe if you are mistaken for someone who is doing someone wrong, or
They've got control of the House, they've got control of the Senate, they've got the White House. And now, with Sandy D leaving, they'll have the Supreme Court, too. I feel so wrong for voting as I did last year. Oh, well, that's why I'm making plans for Canada next year.
Which is more painful? Going to work or gouging your eye out with a spoon? Find out!
http://www.workorspoon.com
Yes I have, and while it may be useful in some parts it definitely takes away some of our civil liberties, like the right to a trial.
Here's a crazy idea... Come up with a better solution to deal with terrorism in a free and open society
No Patiot Act is just as good as having the Patriot Act when it comes to terrorism. The Patriot Act has done nothing to protect us from terrorists since its inception. In fact, the terrorists from 9/11 should have been caught with the existing infrastructure at the time. There really is no need for The Patriot Act to catch terrorists.
And if you think that the US is no longer a free and open society, remember that in many countries around the world, you would be hunted down, arrested and maybe even executed for expressing the thoughts that you've so thoughtfully shared in this forum
That's irrelevant. If you want to play that game you can tell the Iraqi people that at least they don't live in North Korea. You can tell Cubans that they're lucky because they don't live in Afganistan. Human rights and civil liberties are not relative, they are absolute. We must constantly safe-gaurd them or they WILL slip away a little at a time.
Time makes more converts than reason
The real fear (which is counter to freedom, I might add), is wondering when the definition of what you are "doing wrong" shifts. With all of these provisions now in place, how easy would it be to deem healthy dissent as a a terrorist activity? Proof of this has already been seen. When will attacks on policy become an attack against America, and our "national interests", whatever they may be?
Freedom is largely a state of mind. While it can be a dangerous one in much of the world, I don't like seeing our country moving in that direction. I would rather live free under threat than safe under fear of oppression. Besides, if the terrorists hate freedom, then why haven't the Netherlands, New Zealand, Switzerland, etc..., countries that are arguably more free than the U.S., not been turned into parking lots by droves of suicide bombers? No, it's our policy and actions, and I don't want to be deemed unpatriotic at best, and a terrorist under prosecution at worst for "attacking" those policies, just as it's supposed to happen in a true, working democracy.
That is my fear, the Patriot Act doesn't help, and it doesn't "feel" free, that's for sure.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel Boorstin