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HP Embraces Linux for its Toughest Servers
Colmao writes "Investor's Business Daily wrote up an article interviewing Martin Fink, the head of HP's NonStop Unit. From the article'In a move that suggests Linux is finally ready for prime time, Hewlett-Packard is giving the free software a bigger role on some of its toughest servers.' NonStop servers are HP's most costly machines. They are designed to be always on, mission critical appliances. They are used to run some of the world's stock markets. Linux is making big moves in the datacenter and getting some much needed exposure."
>in a move that suggests Linux is finally ready for prime time
Again? I think the last time was when it was let known that linux run several important systems in stock and other vital exchanges.
Linux is the OS most suited to big iron.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
The link given in the story is bad. There's a good story listed in yahoo news: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibd/20050 720/bs_ibd_ibd/2005720tech01
The linked article doesn't seem to mention HP or Linux in any way...
What will they think of next!? Personally, I shut all of my servers down at 5PM so that people working late are inconvenienced and all incoming mail delivery fails! Take that, SPAM!
Oh wait.
My other car is first.
But is now running on Itanium processors (was MIPS). I suspect the Linux connection is that you may be able to now use Linux-based tools for development and the cross-compiler -now you have to use Windows and Visual Studio IDE.
..but I'm glad that the machines my bank uses to hande their online banking site are #6, #7 and #8 on this list.
I don't really remember, that there would have ever been any unavailablilities due to them. (But due to my ISP? Yes.)
“Wait for Hurd if you want something real” –Linus
i never turn mine on. take that hackers!
Are we talking about the remnants of Tandem being moved to Linux?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
What to make of this? Naive +1. Consumers don't want linux on their desktop, that's what to make of it. Your laptop is targeted at consumers... consumers who don't use linux.
In other news, I just bought a chevy Aveo. I want to tow my boat with it. Some welders at a local shop were able to rig up a trailer hitch to it but it doesn't seem to be able to move with my boat attached. Chevy allows their trucks to tow boats, but not the aveo's?
What to make of this?
Simple: They put on their most expensive hardware an OS that they don't support. on laptops I would expect high availability servers to be 'simpler' than laptops, especially when it comes to the desktop side of things. No sound, No broken ATI drivers etc.... and I also expect the kinda people who'd be running the hardware to fork out more on support than the total cost of you laptop.
They have long touted HP-UX as their non-stop platform, but this seems to me somewhat as a concession that it, well, sucks and they need something more adoptable by the mainstream.
I really think HP has the some of the best hardware in the market, particularly the superdome and friends, so hopefully this will help them.
Jerry
http://www.cyvin.org/
A lot of lip service but no action. Does anyone remember this announcement:
Linux notebooks by Hewlett-Packard? Has anybody been able to actually buy a linux laptop from HP? I haven't and I've tried. German customer support told me, rather irritated, that no Linux laptops are for sale from HP. Buying a laptop running linux is still difficult and HP sending out false press releases does not make the situation any more comfortable.
DNA is the ultimate spaghetti code.
Eh?
HPs Desktop business is dealing commodity hardware for 'mom and pop' kinda people who need to check their e-mail, browse the web and share videos with family etc.
I can totally see why Linux is unsupported on their desktop systems, it's a pure business decision due to the relatively tiny number of Linux users buying their systems.
On the other hand their server business is the exact opposite due to the increasing market share Linux is getting in the data centre. Linux has already proved it's self on their entry and mid-range servers for a number of years now and their finally giving it the break into mission-critical data centres that it deserves.
Looking at the parents comment they have never dealt with HP servers running Linux, or indeed HP servers running anything. The platform support package (PSP) is great, it includes industrial strength drivers for their RAID cards, power management interfaces and even utilities to toggle the maintainance LED.
All in all HP could be called double faced, but the amount of development work required to make/certify drivers for all the desktop hardware they make just isn't worth it just to persuade the few Linux users that haven't heard the HP Desktop horror stories to buy their systems.
I built my own from parts I ordered from newegg.com! Saved me a fortune, although I still can't find a distro of RedHat optimized for a small-block Chevy...
...hasn't read the article, since the current posted article mentions *nothing* of Linux, Unix, BSD, etc...
Good job everyone!
</Sarcastic Flame>
I want Linux on my desktop, and I'm not alone. I know I'm a minority and I'm cost innefficient, the thing is that I think the Linux desktop community is self supporting. Release specs and docs for hardware, costs nothing, community will do the rest. Naive or idealist? The Aveo analogy makes no sense. My laptop runs Linux fine. The problems I have are with sleep mode and extra multimedia keys.
We should have been
So much more by now
Too dead inside
To even know the guilt
Trust me. We get the calls.
Just because Linux is cool doesn't mean people have any idea how to use it.
I'd like to know where the idea got out that tech support was also free Linux instruction.
Further, IBM has spent enormous sums of money to ensure that Linux is reliable. IBM will soon discover that this aspect of Linux is the Achille's heel of open source. By using Linux, HP essentially gets a free ride from IBM and need not spend the money to ensure that Linux is reliable. IBM has already done the work.
I can already hear the grinding of the reduction-in-force axe at the OS department of HP.
but only if you live in Fanboy Land where Linux is the answer to every computer-related problem.
Then obviously it's not functioning to the full capacity you want it to. If you wanted a completely functional linux desktop you should've bought a machien that supported it, there's plenty out there. Just like if I want a vehicle that tows a boat, I should buy one that supports it.
Screw RedHat.
Everyone knows gentoo is the Linux distro best fitted to running quickly on a small block Chevy. And hey, if you were capable of building your car you aught to be able to compile gentoo on a Ramjet-350!
Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
All we want are the goddamn hardware specs. How is that too much to ask for?
Though, maybe that's the wrong question to ask. One that might get some answers is: "How much will open documentation (no NDA, no strings attached) cost us?"
Money is always a touch-and-go subject for free software; there isn't ever enough (is there ever?). Is this a cause worth donating for?
And even then, it's only a temporary solution. If we give in like that, the danger is that more companies will do the same, including those that previously gave them to us when we asked for them. And of course, this will have to be repeated for nearly every chipset.
I guess we're reduced to the status quo. It's probably better to have slow progress yet keep the integrity of our guiding principles.
I doubt HP has the right to release this information. I've an HP notebook, and I can't get the sleep modes to work. No, I lie --- it's like the modem, I've never even bothered trying to get them to work. Other things are the digital media reader and the wireless: the former is probably protected by an NDA with Texas Instruments, and the latter is a Broadcom so I have to use ndiswrapper and Windows drivers which rejoice in taking out my kernel after 90 minutes.
And this has WHAT to do with running Linux on HP servers?
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
Yep. and, oddly, Google News links to the same article from the headline "HP Propelling Linux Into Truly 'Big' Time". I'm guessing it's either a really stupid subscription redirect or they just moved the article (stupidly).
Information doesn't want to be anthropomorphized anymore.
The original article seems to be inaccessible on investors.com. I found the same article on Yahoo news.
Information doesn't want to be anthropomorphized anymore.
Yes, well, look what "editor" posted the "story". Typical Slashdot.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
If you want everything to work, out of the box.
AFAIK Ubuntu now ships on HP machines if asked also.
that you may be able to now use Linux-based tools for development and the cross-compiler
HP already have more than a little experience with just what you describe
"The book ia-64 linux kernel by David Mosberger and Stephane Eranian was extremely helpful"
from: http://h71000.www7.hp.com/openvms/journal/
in this (very instructive) article: "Porting OpenVMS to HP Integrity Servers"
(Integrity is one line below Superdome, both Itanium - based. Superdome IA-64 is just coming together now.)
hmm, 'kay that doesn't mean they used Linux tools, but it does mean they are sitting on some very recent and very applicable knowledge.
Not being a fan of Linux, for historical reasons, as much as other more practical ones, i nonetheless truly appreciate how OSS just affected positively one of the most closed - source OSs still out there.
(okay, VMS used to be available with source on microfiche, but that's not my point)
The word "embrace" is a bit overkill on this one unless they are physically hugging their servers.
Considering
- Linux is the leading OS in the Top-500 supercomputers, and
- Linux runs large clusters such as Google, and
- Linux runs
a bunch of stuff for Schwab, ETrade, etc -
- and this other computer company that's a bit bigger than HP called IBM already noticed Linux
I think this article is badly misnamed.The article should have been titled
"Linux Propelling HP into Truly 'Big' Time".
This (virtual)article looks like a followup interview on a RedHat event mid june, where Fink talked about the possibility to run linux natively(as opposed to virtual). It got some coverage then, eg ,
5 /0613linux2.html">here.
http://www.networkworld.com/newsletters/linux/200
Yahoo news has the new interview. It's mentioned in one of the first posts here.
I own a hp laptop and i cant get some of it's features to work under Linux. ...
They put on their most expensive hardware an OS that they don't support.
What to make of this?
HP is a massive company with ~150,000 workers (minus those cuts that are about to happen). The team that does the very high end systems discussed in this article have very little to do with the team that designed your laptop, other than getting a paycheck from the same company. They have far different interests and customer needs than the laptop people do. Linux has very limited penetration and market share on laptops but a large and increasing share of the server market.
i don't know if the submitter did this on purpose (doesn't seem to be the case)...
But the "editor" didn't rtfa, the people commenting the story also didn't rtfa, and the moderators giving +1 insighful also obviously didn't rtfa, and probably also the people metamoding also didn't rtfa
me? i'm just ranting, of course i didn't rtfa
I wonder if HP is going to port the code from HP-UX for Linux to create vPars on their hardware, or is that going to be an HP-UX "only" feature?
I dunno, my dinky little 1U Sun SPARC64 looks quite cute sitting in the corner, I might just sidle up to it and hug it later on.
These are systems that are really pretty cool. And really freaking expensive.
They have nothing to do with HP-UX or Unix of any kind. They are Tadem machines (feel free to look that up).
These are rather slow but super reliable machines with a bizzare OS that has had features for decades that mainstream os's still don't have. Take the current clustering and grid tech and meld it all together and you get something like the tandem. The company I work for came out of the tandem space. The typical intro to the machines for new hires is to note that you can smash one with a sledge hammer and you won't lose any transactions.
Who uses these things? Banks, Banks, Banks, Airlines, Governement, Dell, etc...
They (HP) have been working on a unixy layer to run on top of the tandem os for a number of years now. Apparently this hasn't been going too well. Sounds like Linux might help them do something similar to IBM and the VMs on the mainframe.
I want Linux on my desktop
What makes me not a consumer? Just your opinion. All those calls to Tech support will make a difference.
I was able to get Linux Running on the HP desktop I bought... after I got rid of the HP motherboard in it. In facxt it now supports Linux and Windows from as early as 95, which is a ,lot more consumer friendly thwan the thing I replaced it with.
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
They list a "BSD/OS" in addition to FreeBSD [as well as "NetBSD/OpenBSD"].
My question: What is "BSD/OS" supposed to be? The old BSDi?
not a troll, see AC posting below for yahoo link (someone mod parent and AC as Dah Real Poop)
Exactly. IBM knows that linux has a fanbase so they advertise their servers to them.
HP does promote and support (for a fee) Linux on many of its intel, amd and itanium2 servers. Their target market for Linux is enterprise/government Unix(tm) systems migration, not the hobbyist and not the desktop user. Why should they, no big money there. That said, looking for ways to integrate linux code/libraries isn't so much embracing as taking advantage of a larger code base than what their shrinking OS coding teams can produce.
"They have long touted HP-UX as their non-stop platform..."
I knew I was going to see this as soon as I saw the article.
NonStop is a platform all its own. It has nothing to do with HP-UX or the HP 9000 line. NonStop used to be called "Tandem". IIRC, DEC bought Tandem, Compaq bought DEC, and HP bought Compaq, which is how it ended up in HP's hands. Somewhere along the line, it got renamed to "NonStop".
HP-UX might be appropriate if you need 99.999% uptime. NonStop is appropriate when five nines isn't even close to what you need. This is totally fault-tollerant hardware. You can loose a processor, a memory bank, even a system bus and the system keeps right on going. Very high-end, esoteric stuff.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
This is no surprise.
They refused to support Windows 2000, claiming that it "wasn't a consumer OS." They sat around with Windows 98 on their POS machines until XP came out.
NEVER buy an HP OR a Compaq - they are proprietary POS machines that are a nightmare to do support for. They are "consumer machines" meant to never be opened, tweaked or fixed. Buy and junk - that's it.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Score: 3, Insightful?
For this asshat remark:
"Consumers don't want linux on their desktop"
Excuse me, moron, consumers have never heard of Linux. This does NOT mean they don't want Linux. In fact, they DO want Linux - they just don't know it yet. They DO know they want something other than a Microsoft POS that craps out with spyware every three months so they have to throw the machine out and buy a new one.
The only reason an HP laptop doesn't support Linux properly is lame marketing on the part of HP - who ultimately do not give a shit about their consumers. Which is why their machines are POS.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
HP's last few decisions about the Tandem line haven't worked out too well. After acquiring Tandem, they moved that product line over to PA-RISC. (Remember PA-RISC, HP's very own microprocessor line?) As PA-RISC sank, they had to move to another processor.
They picked the Itanium. Oops.
NonStop customers are getting very nervous.
My big hope is that one day Compaq will become "HP's Desktop Linux brand" so that it can ship Linux PCs without losing Windows OEM licences on the HP side. Its the best shot for any major PC company supporting Linux on the desktop in the near future.
Open Source Sushi
Sun has a product line with machines which are designed to be fire proof (ok, for a limited amount of time). The design is made so that the data survives a more physical disaster.
The HP non-stop machines are not the old tandems, but HP-Ux machines. I have not heard of any Tandems being sold for the last decade, I know some still running ones in banking environments as transaction machines, since they do that great.
My wife's sketchblog Blob[p]: Gastrono-me
The point is, Fink is not interested in anything but getting buzz by leveraging brand names. He's admitted that to us internally. He's basically set things up where he can just take the NonStop brand and stick the label on something else and you the customers are supposed to be none the wiser.
For those of you who think there is actually a chance doing what Fink says in the article instead of simply reappropriating the brand name, ask yourself who's left among the Tandem/NonStop folks to work on it. Oops, nevermind. Ask yourself that question a couple of weeks from now.
I don't care about non stop servers, I want desktop and notebooks that are guaranteed to work with Linux and that don't come with a Windows tax, HP, do you hear me ?
Pupeno
For almost 2 years now I've been running CheckPoint SecurePlatform (aka SPLAT) on HP servers for our firewalls and they've been rock solid. SPLAT is basically a customized Red Hat install that Checkpoint distributes (no, they don't charge for it) and those are the two most reliable boxes on our network. On a 5,000+ machine network, 300 of which are web servers, CPU utilization on the primary fw spiked up to 15% once on a busy day.
Yes, my only tool is a hammer. And you're starting to look like a nail.
We shouldn't use commodity software in critical apps. These should be served by specialized machines that the general public does not have access to. I don't want to see things like Airbus and the triple 7 using it either. I hope that would never be considered. This is leading to the same mono culture problems that windows has already exposed us to. Very dangerous.
What?