Xbox360 Pricing, 2 Models at Launch

Tom writes "According to news in the LA Times, Microsoft will release two Xbox 360 packages when the console is launched later this year. The basic package will retail for $299 and will not include a hard disk, nor will it include a wireless controller, instead shipping with a wired pad. The second package will retail for $399 and will include a 20 Gb hard disk, wireless controller, wireless headset, Ethernet cable and remote control. No release date has been revealed, but a mid to late November date is expected."

Comments

well, that will probably be bad

[realmolo]

If the "cheap" model doesn't have a hard drive, that means that developers aren't going to use the thing in their games.

I assume you'll still be able to use it for saving games, but what about multiplayer stuff? Are new levels going to go on the memory card? And didn't I read something about MS using HUGE memory cards for the Xbox 360? Like, 1Gigabyte cards or something?

I'm just surprised they would split the market like that. But they're MS, they're crazy.

Re:well, that will probably be bad

[Steve525]

If the "cheap" model doesn't have a hard drive, that means that developers aren't going to use the thing in their games.

Bingo! The hardrive on the original Xbox was rarely used well anyway. A few games took advantage of it, but most games were released on multiple systems, and therefore didn't. The reality is, only a few games really needed it. By adding a hardrive, Microsoft thought they were adding a component that would make the XBox significantly better than the PS2. Instead they added a component that just made it a lot more expensive to build. (And unlike the other components in the console, a hardrive's price doesn't drop over time. Capacities go up, but prices don't go down). To avoid hemoraging money again, Microsoft needed to drop the hardrive from the Xbox 360. To maintain compatibility with the original, though, they needed to at least make it an option.

I'm just surprised they would split the market like that.

Perhaps, but as you and I said, developers aren't going to use the hardrive. People who just want to play Xbox 360 (not Xbox 1) games will be able to get by just fine with the base model. People who want extras, (downloadable content, Xbox 1 compatibility, probably some media options), will need the upgraded version. Many people don't care about these extras, so why should they pay for hardware to do it?

Re:well, that will probably be bad

[DrXym]

You say games won't use it, but the fact is that the XBox could make them use it whether they're aware of it or not. The simplest example would be if it cached content as it was read from the disc so it didn't have to be reloaded each time. A second example would be if it acted like an ultra large memory card for saving games. Another example were if it were used to "hibernate" a game so someone could walk away and pick up where they left off the day before.

Then there are games which could use it. For example, to download patches, extra levels and so forth.

Then there is MS touting the box as a multimedia hub (although in reality it was more like a dumb terminal). A HD could mean that it could rip songs, movies etc. to disk and play them on demand. And MS could sell video on demand - films, shows, trailers and so on, as well as distributing firmware updates, patches and more on it.

It seems pretty strange that they're going to piss this all away which is what they're doing.

Re:well, that will probably be bad

[Steve525]

In short, hard drive prices do go down, a lot. Especially considering that MS never upgraded the Xbox drive from the tiny 10GB hard drive it originally came with, it wasn't a significant cost.

You are confusing the cost per one unit (MB), when it is really the cost per the unit that matters. One a certain capacity minimum is reached, the hardrive doesn't get a whole lot cheaper. It costs nearly as much to make a 10 GB drive as a 160GB, since much of the cost is the assembly, mechanics, and electronics which are the same on both units.

Look at the web page you linked to. Until the mid-90's hard drives were expensive, period. In say 1997, a hard drive costs $330 (2.1 GB). In 2004, a hard drive costs $250 (250 GB). The price didn't change a lot, but the capacity went up (by 100x). Granted, there are lower capacity hardrives that are cheaper, but you see my point (I hope).

Sure, you and I might be able to buy a few really cheap 10 GB hard drives off ebay, or from a surplus shop, but with the volumes Microsoft needs, they can't.

Re:well, that will probably be bad

[Dinny]

Oh but Halo sells system. I think they might try to use Halo to sell more harddrives. It's certainly going to have downloadable content and push the 360 to limits. Why not go that extra step and require a hard drive. It would sell a lot of hard drives.

Re:Dumbest "Package" Ever

[akhomerun]

haven't heard of memory sticks for the xbox?

Tell me, have you seen the front of the console??? The Memory Slots are RIGHT THERE!!

I'd say the $399 deal is pretty good considering it comes with just about everything, and given the fact that you can't buy a laptop hard drive yourself for under $70

Not a bad deal

[fewnorms]

So, a 100 dollars will get you a 20 Gb hard disk, wireless controller, wireless headset, Ethernet cable and remote control? Not a bad deal. I do wonder how many people would actually get the "no hard disk" version.
On the other hand, it's still an expensive piece of kit, and odds are the version without a hard disk will still have the connectors on the inside, happily protected by "warranty void when opened".

Re:Not a bad deal

[Kjella]

So, a 100 dollars will get you a 20 Gb hard disk, wireless controller, wireless headset, Ethernet cable and remote control? Not a bad deal. I do wonder how many people would actually get the "no hard disk" version.

I'm sure they've had some psychologist work on that. That way, you draw the attention away from the $400 price tag and towards all the extras you get for $100. Same way burger joints typically have an "extreme" burger to make the "big" menu seem more "normal". It works wonders. I know many people that are that way, you make them pick the "good" deal in a set of bad deals, and they're happy with making a good deal.

I particularly remember one time I was with my mom buying an appliance for me, and she insisted on getting a 150$ more expensive one because she was getting $40 off, and it had absolutely no value to me over the cheaper one. Somehow that was a better deal than buying the cheaper one at retail price. I call it $110 down the toilat. I think the historic quote is this one:

"It is not because of the few thousand francs which would have to be spent to put a roof over the third-class carriages or to upholster the third-class seats that some company or other has open carriages with wooden benches. What the company is trying to do is to prevent the passengers who can pay the second class fare from traveling third class; it hits the poor, not because it wants to hurt them, but to frighten the rich. And it is again for the same reason that the companies, having proved almost cruel to the third-class passengers and mean to the second-class ones, become lavish in dealing with first-class passengers. Having refused the poor what is necessary, they give the rich what is superfluous." - Jules Dupuit, 1849

Kjella

failure

[skatephat420]

What better way to make no one want to buy your system than to release two different systems off the bat. If they were smart they would hold off because there just isn't a market for a new system right now. I think I'll wait and get the final version, you know, when they are ready.

Expectations are the mother of all sorrow

Re:Dumbest "Package" Ever

[calibanDNS]

It even lacks Live capability since it lacks Ethernet.

The $299 version doesn't ship with an ethernet CABLE, it still has an ethernet jack on the box though.

Re:Dumbest "Package" Ever

[Nairoz]

Well, it makes sense - when people complain about the price of the "deluxe" package, it can be pointed out that the "standard" package is cheaper.

A potential customer looks at the price of the standard package, then looks at the price of the deluxe one... "So I get all this stuff for a little bit more money? Ring me up!"

Plus it'll look nice in the catalogue... "Xbox 360, only $299!". Joe Average buys it for his kids, as it's "cheaper than those other consoles", not knowing it's about as useful as a brick without a hard drive.

Actual LA Times link

[a16]

Why are stories being allowed where the author links to his own website, which just references an original article elsewhere so that the author can gain ad impressions?

The actual link to the original story is here.

Where the hell are they getting 20GB drives?

[denis-The-menace]

Theses days you can't buy anything smaller than a 60/80GB unless it's used.

Re:Where the hell are they getting 20GB drives?

[ChrisF79]

Ebay.

Re:Where the hell are they getting 20GB drives?

[Anonymous Coward]

60/80GB with a 20gb firmware, exactly how the old XBOX hard drives were larger with a firmware that identifies them as a smaller drive.

Re:UK buyers screwed again?

[indie1982]

Well this has just flashed up on the BBC News latest news ticker...

"Microsoft says price of new Xbox 360 games console will start at £210"

Re:Don't get caught up in pre-release rumors

[Vo0k]

Yeah, So the customers go buy $299 XBOX and a week later $99 hard-drive extension, $49 wireless controller+headset and $69 ethernet extension. And developers just release games with notice "This game requires hard drive".

IGN has more info

[fixmyship]

The IGN article has more info on the differences in the two versions. http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/642/642656p1.html/

It just works

[Jakhel]

Since there will be different versions of the XBox 360, does that mean that console game makers will now be putting "system requirements" on console games?

Wasn't one of the main reasons people said they preferred console games to PC games because they didn't have to worry about their system being able to handle running the game? Because it "just works"? Now console gamers have to be mindful of system requirements as well.

Re:Halo

[Gulthek]

You might want better info.

I own an XBox, but not either of the Halos.

It has never crashed.

Many people I know own an XBox for XBox Media Center.

I own it for the games. (Splinter Cell and Ninja Gaiden especially.) Most of which use the system's true 5.1 surround sound support.

Re:UK buyers screwed again?

[kahei]

You think the USA makes stuff! That's adorable! Hold that pose while I fetch my digital camera! Oh, wait, there's one in my mobile :)

Re:I've solved which of the next gen systems to bu

[turtled]

I'll get Nintendo Revolution (yep, I'm a fanboy). What I do like so far is that they have said virtually nothing; they are quietly learning from the other 2. On the other hand, Sony and M$ have over promised, built expectations and are figuring ways to under-deliver (such as M$'s backward compatabilies issues)

Re:So.. entry level or luxury?

[jargoone]

Dude, come on. He was looking for any conceivable reason to bitch, and you had to go and take it away from him. That wasn't very nice of you.

Re:UK buyers screwed again?

[doctor_no]

Once again Europe pays more. 299EUR($369)/£209.99($377) for the base version and 299EUR($491)/£279($506) for the "Value pack".:

Source:
Joystiq.com

Along with the announcement of $299 and $399 pricing levels for the Xbox 360 in the US, Microsoft has revealed European recommended retail prices for the two consoles and accessories. Not surprisingly us Europeans are getting shafted. Instead of £165/242 and £220/323 respectively (what US dudes will pay), EU prices are £209.99/299.99 and £279.99/399.99 for the basic and extra pack. That's £45/58 and £60/77 more! With such an inspired simulateous worldwide release day it'd have been nice if everyone paid the same price.

Along with announcing the console prices in Leipzig, Germany today, Microsoft revealed how much the accessories are gonna cost ya'. Here's a rundown:

Hard Drive (20 GB) - £69.99/99.99 (aren't there 120GB PC drives available for less than this?)
Memory Unit (64 MB) - £22.99/34.99
Headset - £14.99/19.99
Wireless Controller - £32.99/34.99
Rechargeable battery pack - £9.99/14.99 (lasts for 25 hours of wires free power)
Wireless Networking Adapter - £59.99/79.99 (eek!)
Universal Media Remote - £19.99/29.99
SCART AV Cable - £17.99/24.99
VGA HD AV Cable - £19.99/29.99 (very useful if you have a PC screen)

http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000173054784/

Re:Just like SEGA

[NanoGator]

"Confusing consumers with multiple hardwares hasn't worked well for other companies in the past. Especially since the $299 360 is basically a doorstop. And if you say want a second controller and a game, you the functional version is gonna cost you $500 easy, on the first day."

Oh geez, this is getting irritating. Folks, I know we all hate Microsoft and all and we hope and hope and hope they fail, but it really is causing people to spew some strange comments.

Sega screwed up by offering multiple bits of HARDWARE, like the Saturn and the 32X, not by offering different packages at different prices. What Microsoft is doing is more akin to the strategies used by Sega and Nintendo both for the Genesis, SNES, and NES systems. Remember the 'Core' system that only came with one controller and a game? They also sold them with 2 controllers and a pack in game for more money. BTW, all three of those systems were quite successful.

Doorstop, yeah. No HD or a wireless controller is going to seriously inhibit gaming on that thing. Right.

Folks, I know it's fun to hate Microsoft and all, but aren't we scraping the bottom of the barrel for doom and gloom predictions?

Re:UK buyers screwed again?

[dhovis]

As far as I understand it, European prices usually include VAT, whereas American prices do not include sales tax (the closest equivelent we have to VAT).

So to do a direct comparison, you need to factor in that most Americans will pay additional sales tax (6-8% is typical), though sales taxes are all at the state or local level in the US, and some states have no sales tax.

You also need to account for the fact that most of these items are made in China or Taiwan and are shipped by sea. The shipping distance is greater to Europe than to the US, and that adds to the cost.

So don't just convert currency and say you're getting ripped off, I'd be willing to bet that it evens out.

Actually, the best analogy is

[jbellis]

"just like the PS2 HDD"

nobody developed for it because nobody had it, and nobody bought it because nobody developped for it.

it's possible that 360+HDD will be worth developing for if MS can get enough people to buy it early enough... good luck.

Was Xbox, not PS2

[thatguywhoiam]

Does this ring a bell? "The PlayStation 2 will be able to render Toy Story quality graphics in real time."

Yeah that rings a bell. But not from history.

The quote you are thinking of referred to the Xbox launch, not the Playstation 2 launch. Billy G himself said it:

Gates said the 3-D chips in the Xbox would be three times faster than anything on the market and offer nearly unlimited graphical visuals. "We're approaching the level of detail seen in Toy Story 2," he said, referring to the computer-generated kids film from Disney/Pixar.

The original Wired article.

Somehow people keep repeating this quote as a Sony quote. I don't know why. I don't blame you - its very common.

Re:Was Xbox, not PS2

[ad0gg]

" The new microprocessor will allow users to handle nearly 50 times more 3-D image data compared with Sega Enterprises Ltd.'s (7964) Dreamcast game console. It will also let users produce game characters comparable in image quality to Walt Disney's Toy Story. "
Link

Sony was claiming Toy Story quality graphics with psx2 before it launched. Hence the phrase.