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Communications Infrastructure No Match for Katrina

jfourier writes "In this age of cheap commoditized consumer electronics and advanced mobile technology, why can't all the people of a city make contact during an emergency? Cell phone circuits filled up during 9/11 attacks and in the wake of hurricane Katrina very few victims can make contact with their families, despite the fact that they have all those mobile phones. The Red Cross is looking to deploy satellite equipment to restore communications in affected areas." From the article: "Katrina made landfall in Louisiana early this morning with sustained winds of 145 mph, but veered just enough to the east to spare New Orleans a direct blow. Even so, flooding, power outages and heavy damage to structures were reported throughout the region. The Red Cross tomorrow expects to begin deploying a host of systems it will need, including satellite telephones, portable satellite dishes, specially equipped communications trucks, high- and low-band radio systems, and generator-powered wireless computer networks, said Jason Wiltrout, a Red Cross network engineer. "

77 of 483 comments (clear)

  1. Windy by fembots · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wouldn't satellite signals be affected by rain and wind?

    1. Re:Windy by Neil+Blender · · Score: 3, Funny

      Wouldn't satellite signals be affected by rain and wind?

      Yeah, they don't work if they get wet and the wind can really screw with their frequencies.

    2. Re:Windy by AlexisMachine · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wind no, rain yes.

      Ku Band singals are in the microwave range of EM frequencies, so are vulnerable to rain fade (which is ironic since many Meteorologists get their data this way).

      C-Band isn't as bad.

    3. Re:Windy by Guspaz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is why I am very frustrated at the FCC's limitations on UWB broadcast signal strengths. UWB devices are resistant to interference, and can have enormous ranges at very low power outputs. Not to mention enormous bandwidth and the potential for an enormous number of users. We're talking multiple gigabits at insane ranges with very little power. That is a lot more simultaneous voice than HAM radio or cellular service (or even wimax) can provide. Wimax is a joke next to UWB's potential, but with current limitations on UWB, it looks like UWB is limited to wires (UWB over cable TV coax), ultra-short range uses (Wireless USB), and wifi-type ranges (100 to 300 feet).

      300 feet at a thousandth the power of a cellphone. Now imagine if you had the broadcast power of a cellphone in a UWB device.

    4. Re:Windy by negative3 · · Score: 2, Informative

      While theoretically UWB can support an incredible data rate, in practice it's not possible. In my graduate research group (mprg.org) a whole group of people are studying UWB propagation, receiver structures, etc. To actually get the theoretical throughput, you need an incredible amount of power - because W/Hz is part of Shannon's capacity theorem. Even though the signal power spectral density is low and can hopefully blend in with the noise floor of any other receiver, the transmitter has to have a very powerful amplifier because it's power is going to be spread over a huge bandwidth. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just wanted to bring up something a few of us discussed on a boring night at the lab this summer. People who have actually built transceivers so far can't get anywhere near the rates originally predicted (at least not without a shitload of errors). One very cool application of UWB is for radar/ranging/mapping. A friend of mine set up a UWB system that can determine the breathing rate & heart beat of a motionless person - even through a wall. I've also seen through the wall radar boxes for police applications (to scan inside a room before the cops break in to figure out where everybody is). Oh and for that whole noise floor thing, you don't want to be near one of those transmitters if you have equipment running. Their damn pulser would overwhelm my software radio's RF front end every time they turned it on - and I was transmitting across a room from a directional antenna (log-periodic) to my antenna array! ---- Now onto the whole cell phone systems being overwhelmed - the systems were not designed to handle thousands of people all using their phones at the same time. It's never going to happen.

      --
      "Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation." - Richard Feynman
  2. Ham Radio by Spetiam · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Do I even need to say it?

    Ever since the midwest blackout I've been meaning to get an operator's license... for 2m if nothing else.

    1. Re:Ham Radio by wowbagger · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, then do it - the test for No Code Tech is not very hard, and then you can start getting practice operating, and start studying for the Extra when the FCC removes the 5 words per minute Morse requirement (any day now).

      Go to http://www.arrl.org/ - download the question pools (they are about to change - so get the correct ones), go by a shi^H^H^HRadio Shack and get the Tech, General, and Extra study guides, and spend a few minutes a night studying.

      The ARRL should have a list of testing sessions and locations - failing that, let me know where you are and I'll see what I can find out.

    2. Re:Ham Radio by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 4, Interesting
      I just heard a short piece on NPR about this:

      An 85 yr old woman was trapped on a rooftop. She somehow managed to get a cellphone call out to someone in Tulsa, OK. From there, the Red Cross took it, and asked for HAM assistance. From there, the message was relayed by ham ops to Idaho, then to Utah, then to [somewhere else], then down to the Coast Guard in Mobile, AL.

      She was rescued.

    3. Re:Ham Radio by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful
      Let me point out that this is one of those times when battery operated amateur radio provides one of the best ways to get messages in and out of an affected area. In fact, this story at the ARRL has some information on how hams are helping in the recovery effort.

      It's too bad that so many will be willing to sacrifice HAM so that some miserable little power company can fill the skies with RF noise just so they can get an Internet feed. Hopefully the odd disaster will remind people that there are better ways to get the Internet, and that HAM operators serve in an invaluable service in times of crisis, and that BPL is nothing more than a shameless money grab.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    4. Re:Ham Radio by BenFranske · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Before someone points out that the power is out so the point is moot let me say that the power is out in this area but these RF communications are going out to receiveing stations where the power is NOT out and where interference would be a problem. Hams are generally supportive of new technologies such as BPL and would no doubt enjoy seeing it work out but the providers need to show a way to do it without creating interference on existing communications channels.

    5. Re:Ham Radio by xee · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Indeed. In the aftermath of hurricane andrew my father and I (both hams) went into the areas with heavy devistation to take messages from people with no communication and pass them on to thier friends and relatives across the country. We also sat by the radio at home and made phone calls on behalf of other hams who were in the field taking messages. I'm sure this is happening in LA as well. Why doesn't ham radio get more press in times like this? Because Big Media doesn't want to encourage encroachment on THEIR airwaves!

      --
      Oh shit! I forgot to click "Post Anonymously"...
    6. Re:Ham Radio by Anonym1ty · · Score: 3, Insightful

      When all else fails...


      ...Amateur Radio!

    7. Re:Ham Radio by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Umm... That's not quite true. It is a commonly held misconception that in an emergency anything goes. However, in the real world it doesn't quite work that way... In case of emegency, you can transmit anywhere you wish, but you had better be prepared to answer for and justify your actions.

      You CAN still be held liable for the consequences of your actions after the fact. There were a couple of similar cases I read about where a guy out hiking got lost in the mountains and there was no cell service or any ham station reachable, and he used his modified radio to call into the local police repeater to report his emergency. Clearly he would have died if he had not been rescued, yet he was still fined and had his equipment confiscated because of his actions.

      In short, if you are faced with the decision of losing your Ham license or dying, you'll take the former, but as I said you will most likely have to pay the piper later.

      BTW - Yes, IAAH (I Am a Ham) and I'm the statewide repeater frequency coordinator for one of the largest metro areas in the USA, so I speak with some authority here.

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    8. Re:Ham Radio by bdowd · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Being a Ham radio operator is like being in the US military. You get absolutely no respect from most people... until they can't do without you. "What an antiquated hobby", they say, condescendingly. Sure. It's the only communications modality which works without an infrastructure ... which is exactly the situation in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast right now. -W1DOC

  3. Red Cross Donations by learn+fast · · Score: 4, Informative
    1. Re:Red Cross Donations by Savantissimo · · Score: 2, Interesting

      My dad is a pathologist with over 25 years experience running a hospital laboratory. He says the Red Cross is just this side of organized crime. They take blood donations and RENT the blood to hospitals for something like $100/unit for about 3 weeks. Then, instead of freezing it, they either destroy it or sell it for components. This policy, along with their effective monopoly creates severe blood shortages, extorts money from gravely injured people and the continual artificial crises give them propaganda opportunities to look like heroes. In many other ways the American Red Cross is bureaucratic, inept, wasteful, callous and self-serving. They have huge reserves, palatial offices and they do not deserve your support. Don't give them anything without making sure they will use your gift as you direct, and get it in writing.

      --
      "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?" - Patrick Henry
  4. Communications Failed! by geomon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Beat out messages on drums!

    Of course the system failed. The cities have flooded, there is no power in much of the area, and a good number of towers and other infrastructure has been damaged.

    The winds reached 140+ miles per hour. The uplands received 5+ inches of rain in 24 hours.

    --
    "Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
  5. Ham Radio by BenFranske · · Score: 5, Informative

    Let me point out that this is one of those times when battery operated amateur radio provides one of the best ways to get messages in and out of an affected area. In fact, this story at the ARRL has some information on how hams are helping in the recovery effort.

  6. Dumbass question by Le+Marteau · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In this age of cheap commoditized consumer electronics and advanced mobile technology, why can't all the people of a city make contact during an emergency?

    That is the dumbest question I have ever seen on Slashdot.

    Sure, cell PHONES are cheap, but have you priced the towers and the infrastructure that SUPPORTS the phone? Plus, even though your cell phone has a battery, the batteries at the cellular provider won't last long when the entire frickin' CITY is without power.

    --
    Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
    1. Re:Dumbass question by Deitheres · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly... mobile phones are not like walkie talkies... they don't connect directly to one another. While these systems are scalable, there is still a limit to the traffic capacity they can handle.

      It's like asking why your computer can't run a billion processes simultaneously-- the infrastructure just doesn't support it.

      --
      Just like driving a car:
      (D) to go forward
      (R) to go backward

    2. Re:Dumbass question by Lost+Found · · Score: 2, Informative

      Eh... all true, but the battery part. At least, I'm making an educated guess. Here in Telecom Corridor in Richardson, TX, Nortel's facility has (or at least, at one time, had) battery capacity to run Dallas for a week, and they don't even switch calls... just make switches.

      Of course, that is the PSTN, and I suppose cell providers aren't held to nearly the same standard.

    3. Re:Dumbass question by nairnr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here Here! Infrastructure systems are designed for common to peak expected usage. No City or company in there right mind will build roads, or phone systems to handle maximum similtanous usage. Think of it has your morning commute. How come everyone in the city can't just hop on the road and not expect delays? You want to build a 50 lane highway on the off chance everyone has to use it at once?

      The scale of the disaster is immense. When you have a city which is 80% under water up to 20' of water, I would think you would lose some critical systems!

      We had on time in one of our smaller cities - Lethbridge during Canadian Idol, you couldn't place a phone call cause everyone was trying to phone in and vote for there local boy.(he ended up winning). Now put that on the scale of a wide spread natural disaster. Good luck!

    4. Re:Dumbass question by Mike1024 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That is the dumbest question I have ever seen on Slashdot.

      I disagree.

      We have the power to hold equipment to arbratry standards, and we use that power to ensure safety. For example, power plugs are required to have fuses - not for every day use, but for emergencies. Likewise, we design our medical equipment not to kill patients in the event of an emergency, we put earth bonding straps on cranes to keep people safe if someone accidentally hits the boom into a power line, and so on.

      Why don't we expand our arbratry safety standards into the realm of radio telecommunications?

      I'm no expert, but in discussions about cell tower cancer risks, one often hears that cell towers don't pump out a gigantic wattage - they just have good design, such as very high gain antennas. Compaines like APC will sell you rack-mounted datacenter UPS systems offering many hundreds of watt-hours of backup power. Backup generators are also commonplace.

      If it's possible, why don't we simply say to cell providers "You are required to provide the capacity for 99% of your customers to make one ten-minute call within 3 hours of any major emergency" as a precondition for selling them radio licenses?

      Just my $0.02,

      Michael

      --
      "Goodness me, how unlike the FBI to abuse the trust of the American public." -- The Onion
    5. Re:Dumbass question by shibashaba · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Grounds and fuses are put on things because that kind of stuff happens on the regular basis and is very cheap protection. You know of any structures that strech out high into the sky that are hurrican, tornado, earthquake and fire proof? Just how do you expect that to be possible? Theres a far cry from forcing cell phone companies to do something almost impossible and going bankrupt vs a fuse costing a few cents or a ground costing a few dollars.

      Before we make cell phone companies make bullet proof towers why don't we make hurrican proof houses? That would save a hell of a lot more lives. Disaster strikes and the first thing you people think about is cell phones?

      --
      ---------- Open Source is capitalism applied to IP.
  7. Cellular blimps by gothzilla · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I remember a story some time ago about a plan to deploy blimps for cell and wi-fi service. I wonder if that plan might be viable now? They could fly away for the storm then fly back shortly afterwards.

    1. Re:Cellular blimps by TGK · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While it might be somewhat impracticable to put blimps up over major cities for cell coverage all the time, the use of this technology for emergancies isn't such a bad idea.

      Unfortunately, there are really two issues here. First, the ability to communicate during the disater. I'm not sure if we really need to invest too much in the problem of how to make a cell phone call during a hurricane. Evacuation is done for a reason. If you can't be bothered to leave I'm not all to sympathetic if you can't call out either.

      That said, when rescue crews start operating in the city following a catastrophe like this, we need to have a working telecommunications infrastructure. Blimps or some other form of airborn system can aid immeasurably in this.

      Of course, cell phones are only good as long as their batteries hold out. Still, solar power and a decent sat uplink can temporarily solve the infrastructure problem.

      --
      Killfile(TGK)
      No trees were killed in the creation of this post. However, many electrons were inconvenienced.
    2. Re:Cellular blimps by BluedemonX · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yeah, when the winds hit 145mph they could fly away REAL quick.

      Of course, retrieving them back from Ottawa's airspace might be tricky, what with international border disputes over softwood lumber and all.

      --

      --- Jump!! Fire!! Bullet time!! - Lego version of the Matrix
    3. Re:Cellular blimps by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Here's what I don't get. Amtrak runs trains up and down from Chicago to New Orleans on a daily basis, and also to someplace in New York. Do you really mean to tell me that they couldn't have gotten every one of those tourists out of New Orleans and surrounding areas? Even if they only have two trains to do it, you fill them, go an hour inland, dump everybody, run back, repeat.

      No, what we have here is a bunch of companies that could have helped but chose to sit on their asses. Two choice quotes from comments at http://blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2005/08/kat rina_a_terri.html:

      Amtrak crapped out on us - closing up shop and shooing all their paying passengers out of the building - telling all passengers who were/are in New Orleans to transfer to other trains that we have to fend for ourselves. No emergency assistance - no emergency transportation to catch other trains or (at least) get us out of town - no emergency assistance to get us a place to stay.
      ...but the thing that really ticks me off is that amtrak closed up shop and activated a law loophole that would prevent the louisiana [sic] goverment from useing [sic] there trains to evacuate innocent people from louisiana [sic] especially new orleans [sic]. and just when you thought amtrak [sic] couldn't sink any lower.
      Personally, I'd like to see the heads of Amtrak and other companies that could have helped but didn't brought up on charges of aiding and abetting involuntary manslaughter.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    4. Re:Cellular blimps by malakai · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, while Amtrak is not a government agency, it is wholly owned ( 100% of it's stock is owned by the Federal government ) so I'm going to call BS on this story. It would have taken two phone calls MAX from a Lousianna Senator to allow Amtrak trains to be commendeered for evacutation.

      My guess is, they didn't feel the need for it. As they knew the capactity of the Superdome + the nine orther emergency locations would not be exceeded. In fact, in the end, only about 10k went to the Superdome. It can hold 80k for an event.

      That may turn out to be a bad decision, but not because people couldn't get Amtrak to play ball. The board is federally controlled, and they require the US Federal Governemnt to approve their budget each year. The US Govt has Amtrak by the balls, for better or worse.

  8. One for the "This is an outrage!" crowd... by jav1231 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    WTF do people expect? Millions of people displaced and each having at least one relative and likely several in other parts of the world trying to reach them. This is to be expected. Why should a network outage and phone difficulties be news in such a catastrophy?

    1. Re:One for the "This is an outrage!" crowd... by mikael · · Score: 2, Interesting

      During the cold war, radio antennae were designed to be retracted underground in antipication of a nuclear strike, and to have a motor strong enough to push their way through several foot of rubble after the blast

      If you could combine this concept with a wind power generator, you could have more a resilient network - Suppose cell phone towers could have a wind speed monitor and shutdown if the wind speed exceeded a certain limit, rather than wait to be knocked down in a blizzard or a storm?

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
  9. That's not surprising... by artemis67 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I live in Charlotte, NC, and it's often difficult to place a cell phone call during rush hour traffic here. If we had a major disaster, no doubt the same thing would happen to us. The cell phone networks obviously were only designed to support a small fraction of the total number of cell phone users in the area at any given time.

  10. Round up of New Orleans News Sources by Cr0w+T.+Trollbot · · Score: 4, Informative

    -Crow T. Trollbot

  11. I've got a friend by the_skywise · · Score: 4, Interesting

    who's evacuated out of state and has a cell phone with long distance service, but people are having problems calling TO him. Presumably because the call is still trying to get to New Orleans to figure out where to forward his phone call.

    1. Re:I've got a friend by VoiceOfSanity · · Score: 2, Informative

      This is unfortunately true. The reason for this is simple: The network tries to route the call first to the area code where the cell phone was registered. Seeing it listed as 504 (for New Orleans) causes the system to try and go to New Orleans first to see if it can connect. With the existing network in tatters the response back is a failure, which instead of making the call do a search to see where the phone is, gets routed to either a message saying 'all circuits are busy' or 'due to the hurricane in the area, your call cannot be completed.'

      I talked with a Cingular tech, and he says that the situation is that they are trying to set up the network to find the phone anywhere, but it may be some time before they have it up and running. I'm sure that other cell phone companies are rushing to do the same, so that they can provide connectivity to those who have fled the area and need to call folks to let them know they're alive and safe.

  12. amateur radio is alive and well in New Orleans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    http://www.arrl.org/
    Amateur Radio Volunteers Involved in Katrina Recovery (Aug 30, 2005) -- Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES) volunteers in Louisiana are engaged in the Hurricane Katrina recovery effort, and more are waiting in the wings to help as soon as they can enter storm-ravaged zones. Winds and flooding from the huge storm wreaked havoc in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama after Katrina came ashore early Monday, August 29. Louisiana ARES Section Emergency Coordinator Gary Stratton, K5GLS, told ARRL that some 250 ARES members have been working with the Red Cross and the state's Office of Homeland Security Emergency Preparedness. Much of the affected areas remain flooded and dangerous, however. As a result, state officials have not allowed emergency or other units to enter the flooded zones, and there is still no communication with many coastal areas.

  13. No! Technology has saved lives.... by geddes · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Technology can certainly help us in times of need. The Mayor of New Orleans was able to order an evacuation, through the great telecommunication and media infrastructures that we have, people were able to be warned, which probably saved thousands of lives. I say this, because when natural disasters like this hit third world countries, there are many, many, many more deaths. So our communications infrastructure and other technologies DO HELP. Of course, we have had television and radio and the like for a while, an evacuation and warning like this would have been possible probably even 40 years ago. This catagory of technology would also include things like interstate highways, helicopters, boats, and the like, which help rescue operations get where they are needed. Another development we have that helps is a highly organized and functional government. George Bush can immediately grant disaster funding to these states and the rescue operations get moving. Without government direction and organization, it would take whatever volunteer goodwill organizations that go down there a lot longer to coordinate their efforts, and would be much less effective. It is true that the cell phones stop working when the power is cut to the tower, but the same is true for regular phones. But, the amazing thing is, to restore phone service we can fly a couple satellites, which is a lot easier than waiting for the water to recede and rebuild all the phone lines. So technology is helping in this case as well. A disaster like this does show us how powerful nature is, and that sometimes there is nothing we can do to stop a disaster, but we can do our best to minimize the tragedy.

  14. Money to be made here by MooseTick · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It seems like Verizon, Sprint or someone could make a boatload of money from opportunities like this. They could have a few mobile cell towers that run from generators. When a tornado, hurricane, wind storms, or whatever hit, they truck those towers in as temporary replacements. The local government will appreciate it. The local cell phone users will appreciate it. The people not on their plan will make them a bundle in roaming fees!

    They could store them centrally inthe country. Since they usually have a large warning, they could get them nearby the pending storm. Right after the storm clears, instant tower.

    3. Profit

    1. Re:Money to be made here by nekonoko · · Score: 2, Informative
    2. Re:Money to be made here by pg110404 · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is probably in bad taste, but why did I have an image of that "can you hear me now?" guy in a rowboat going down the streets of new orleans?

    3. Re:Money to be made here by Incadenza · · Score: 2, Informative
      It seems like Verizon, Sprint or someone could make a boatload of money from opportunities like this. They could have a few mobile cell towers that run from generators. When a tornado, hurricane, wind storms, or whatever hit, they truck those towers in as temporary replacements.

      You mean like COLTs (Cell on Light Trucks)? This seems like prior art to me:

      Rapid Disaster Response - COLTs
      Verizon Wireless "Cell on Light Trucks" (COLTs) can process thousands of calls every hour in the event cell sites or other key communications equipment are damaged or disabled by a community disaster. The 25,000 pound vehicle features two retractable masts, a microwave antenna to link network components, an emergency power generator and a small office. The COLT is also fully equipped with resources needed during emergencies including equipment, fuel, electrical generators, food, water and cots.

    4. Re:Money to be made here by dougmc · · Score: 2, Informative
      It seems like Verizon, Sprint or someone could make a boatload of money from opportunities like this.
      Ok, let's assume that Verizon has a fleet of mobile cell towers with generators, solar powered blimp repeaters, etc. all ready to go to New Orleans on a moment's notice.

      In order to make a boatload of money, somebody would have to pay for it. Who would pay?

      Sure, the service would be worth paying for, but Verizon would immediately be accused of price gouging if they tried to actually get somebody to pay for it. Everybody would expect the `enhanced' service to be provided for free.

      How would you react if you were a Verizon customer and your phone, which hadn't worked before, rang, and it was Verizon offering to make your phone work again for the next three days for only $29.95? Just give your credit card! It might be a bargain, it might even save your life and many other lives, but the outcry against it would be enormous.

      I do see how this would be useful, but unless the governments have already made some sort of deal to fund this sort of thing in advance, I don't see where a boatload of money could be made. In fact, all I see is an opportunity to provide service for free -- which gets them a lot of good karma and brownie points, but it's often hard to take that to the bank.

  15. A Rather Prescient Article by Cr0w+T.+Trollbot · · Score: 2, Interesting
    1. Re:A Rather Prescient Article by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm gonna be blunt, and people can mod it flamebait if they like, but the fact that people live on a flood plain that has sunk because groundwater has been pumped out on a coastline that gets hammered with multiple hurricanes a year, with REALLY BIG F**KING ONES every century or so ought to be a hint that maybe this isn't the best place to have a city. Now maybe before the next near-hit happens, we'll have the technology to build uber-levees and dams, but one has to ask oneself, isn't it cheaper to relocate the city and say "Wow, those bloody Frenchmen were pretty goddamn stupid."

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:A Rather Prescient Article by xlv · · Score: 4, Funny
      but one has to ask oneself, isn't it cheaper to relocate the city and say "Wow, those bloody Frenchmen were pretty goddamn stupid."

      Well maybe the French weren't that stupid after all: they did manage to relocate while unloading Louisiana onto the US...

    3. Re:A Rather Prescient Article by demachina · · Score: 2, Interesting

      A big part of the New Orleans problem is that the levees have been abused. There is a plan on the table where they would have started intentionally flooding the wetlands around New Orleans from the Mississippi and start depositing mud there and building them up so they are a better buffer from storms. Not sure about pumping the ground water but the soil in the region is alluvial and its natural for it to sink. It was OK when the Mississippi flooded it routinely and deposited fresh silt on it to keep building it back up. Unfortunately the Army Corps of Engineers undid this natural restoration on a large scale with levees and flood control. Something about the hubris of man seems appropriate in this case. Of course this solution doesn't work for the city of New Orleans. It is probably a doomed city unless you spend billions constantly building up the levees, and the levees are very vulnerable to the increasingly intense Hurricanes in the region. Its going to continue sinking due to the nature of the soil under it, you can't flood it to naturally replenish it with silt, the sea level is going to continue rising due to global warming. You have to wonder if maybe this event isn't an indicator that it should be abandoned and relocated to a site with a more viable long term future.

      There is also some karma in play here that an intense hurricane which was probably intensified by CO2 induced global warming, thanks to abnormally warm temperatures in the Atlantic and Gulf, would lead to devastation in Louisiana which is at the heart of the oil and gas part of the fossil fuel industry in the U.S. and is responsible for much of America's CO2 pollution capacity.

      --
      @de_machina
  16. Simple by Have+Blue · · Score: 4, Informative

    The networks are not designed for theoretical maximum capacity, they are designed for average peak observed capacity. If there are 1 million cell phones in use and only 10-20% of them are actively transmitting at a time during normal use, why shell out for 5 times as much infrastructure as is needed to support that level of use? A catastrophe like Katrina or 9/11 only happens once every few years; the rest of the time the excess capacity would only be draining resources - not just from the corporate bottom line, but from maintaining the 10-20% of the equipment that's actually used by subscribers.

  17. Re:Yet another reason by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    and why I prefer the northeast. 0 serious earthquakes, 0 landslides, 0 hurricanes, 0 tornados (mostly anyway)

    There just aren't much of any natural phenomenon that you can't adequately prepare for in advance up there.

    Sadly I'm in DC these days...the home of some the most obscene unnatural disasters, our very own House and Senate...ugh


    --
    People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
  18. Re:Yet another reason by greythax · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, just those annoying blackouts and riots, eh? :)

  19. Flooding by ackthpt · · Score: 2, Informative
    Of course the system failed. The cities have flooded, there is no power in much of the area, and a good number of towers and other infrastructure has been damaged.

    One of the city levees has been leaking and without power they estimate the homes of hundreds of thousands will be flooded. Without power there's also the lack of pumps running. Much of the city is 6 ft below the level of the Misssissippi River.

    This is pretty much your worst case scenario in the Gulf Coast happening. Nice weather now, but people won't even be allowed back to some neighborhoods for at least one week. Others are still being evacuated, by boat, as flood waters rise.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
    1. Re:Flooding by e1618978 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I bet after this the houses that are above the flood line will sell at a premium price...

  20. /. has been watching too much mass media by thesandbender · · Score: 4, Informative

    Wind does not affect satellite signals. It effects the dishes. Rain does attenuate the signal however. Regardless, the storm will have blown over by the time the Red Cross gets the equipment setup. All and all this was not a well thought out post: 1. Capacity : Yes, the cell companies could build out the capacity to support everyone calling at once but you don't want to foot the bill. Every once in a while you need to speed to pass some one, you don't buy a porsche do you? Why? Because most of us justify it, much less afford it. 2. Robustness : Lets see if you house stands up to 20 feet of water and 145 mph winds. I'm certain it won't... why not... because you don't want to pay for it. Cell phones are not a public service, they are a commodity and are priced and scaled accordingly. I'm sure the cell phone companies would be more than happy to accomodate you if you'll sign the 10 year $250/month service contract.

    1. Re:/. has been watching too much mass media by Stonent1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Rain affects the small space between the reflector and the LNB. So if rain travels between the dish itself and the "stalk" pointing at the dish, then your signal will degrade since the relatively weak signal is concentrated into a small spot. As long as the rain is diverting the weak signal coming from the satellite. So think of it like shining a flashlight at someone and the put their hand up to interfere, the light still manages to mostly get to the destination. If someone shoots a laser pointer at you and you block it with your hand, then that is it, no more signal.
       
      This is why you'll see "dish socks" stretchy covers that go over the dish. It keeps rain from passing through the dish and the LNB.

    2. Re:/. has been watching too much mass media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative
      I'm not debating any of your other points, because they're all valid and well thought out in my opinion, but...
      if you'll sign the 10 year $250/month service contract
      Contracts are a method not to ensure income for the service but to force customers to pay more for the service than the service is worth. Wireless companies already have a captive audience, to the tune of hundreds of millions of customers. They already make obscene amounts of money and were they not so driven by personal greed and profit there's the chance their infrastructure would be able to withstand these problems. The networks have the capacity problems that they have not because it's not possible but because it would affect the personal profits of the persons that run these companies, either by hitting the company (and thus shareholders') bottom line or because the pay of executives is tied to the corporation's profits. Whatever the twist, wireless companies care about profit, not about reliability or functionality or anything else. Coincidentally they may care about those things, but it's profit profit profit first.

      I guess my question is, whatever happened to good citizenship and being a beneficial, constructive part of society instead of a leech of money?

      Wireless phones have become commoditized and I'm surprised people don't tend to expect them to work the same way land-line phones, electricity and water work. They're utilities, everyone has them, they're dirt cheap and the people got together to use our collective power and legislative influence to require the costs to be low and to recognize them as basic services that 100% of people should receive (though we accept lower percentages as a way of being reasonable).

      People can point and shout and call me a communist until they're red in the face, but as long as we let companies divide and milk us we'll never move beyond this paradigm. What have phone companies promised that they deliver? Digital services? Great, so now instead of my phone fading out but having clear voice services it cuts o t at r ndom t mes com lete y and sounds like it was compressed with lossy compression and decompressed ten times along the way. 3G? I'm still waiting for 3G services from my provider. When they do manage to do something right, like move their phone services onto their Internet networks, it never results in tangible benefits for customers. I don't know about you, but since I've had a wireless phone the cost per month has only gone up and the quality of customer service and wireless service has gone down.

      I don't know about the rest of you, but if it comes down to Sprint making another twenty million dollars next month and fixing the problems with their networks and capacity, I'm all for the part that benefits people and not corporations.
    3. Re:/. has been watching too much mass media by tzanger · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually it's all the rain that's in the distance between the satellite and the dish reflector itself that kills the signal. The small space between the reflector and the LNB is where the signal's strongest. And the "socks" are there to keep snow, squirrels, birds, etc. from collecting in that small space and absorbing the faint signals.

    4. Re:/. has been watching too much mass media by pyser · · Score: 2, Informative

      if rain travels between the dish itself and the "stalk" pointing at the dish, then your signal will degrade

      The "stalk" is called the feed assembly. Old timers like me still call it the "feed horn". In most satellite receive systems, it contains the actual receive antenna (usually a horn-coupled waveguide) and a preamplifier and frequency converter commonly called a "LNB" (low-noise block converter).

      Heavy rain affects Ku-band satellite signals by attenuating them as they make their way through the area of rain near the surface. The signal can also be scattered somewhat by the rain but it is not as significant a phenomenon as rain attenuation. Here is a good explanation of rain fade.

      I've seen rain fade affect terrestrial microwave links as well. I once lost a 13-GHz link for about 10 minutes when a heavy rain storm moved into the path between the transmitter and receiver. The fade margin on that link was around 30 dB, so the rain cut the signal to less than one-thousandth of what it was. I've also seen C-band rain fade, but this was on a very-small-aperture (1-meter) dish which has just enough gain to get the signal it's supposed to get.

      "dish socks" stretchy covers that go over the dish. It keeps rain from passing through the dish and the LNB.

      These are actually covers that primarily prevent snow from accumulating in the dish and spoiling the parabola, greatly reducing the antenna gain and consequently the recovered signal strength. Other methods of accomplishing this are a non-stick coating applied to the dish so that the snow slides off, and heating systems, either heat tapes applied to the surface or hot-air systems, which blow heated air into cavities behind the dish panels. The latter is most often used on uplinks, where a change in gain and directivity could mistakenly illuminate other satellites.

  21. Re:VoIP by Xygon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's assuming that you're IP provider still has active data connections, the wind hasn't knocked over the cables you're relying on, and any number of things. I swear, a lot of you need to go to one RACES meeting and realize what emergency communications is really like. You can't rely on the base infrastructure to be in place below you in an emergency.

  22. HAMS: Help Needed! by SonicSpike · · Score: 2, Informative

    ATTN HAM RADIO OPERATORS:
    After watching all of the major news outlets they are all mentioning that communications in and out of the city of New Orleans is practically nullified.

    Tens of thousands (if not a hundred thousand) or more are trapped in the city following hurricane Katrina. This problem is worsened by the fact that after this cyclone, the city is flooded and the waters are RISING, not receding! This is an urgent situation and needs immediate attention!

    Because of the need of hundreds of search and rescue missions, and the lack of ability of communications infrastructure to operate, assuming it is still existent at all, I would call FOR EVERY AVAILABLE HAM RADIO OPERATOR TO ATTEMPT TO GIVE THEIR ASSISTANCE TO THIS AREA!

    Well-prepared self-sufficient mobile ham radio operators would make a difference in saving lives and passing 'life and limb' traffic in and out of the disaster area. I would like to propose hams descend on the city and surrounding areas to provide a temporary communications infrastructure until such time that officials are able to provide this on their own.

    KG4JYD
    Matt Collins
    Nashville, TN

    --
    Libertas in infinitum
  23. Re:Red Cross runs IT now? by greythax · · Score: 2, Insightful

    a dry place to sleep is the real need. Which is why bringing in communications equipment is a good idea. The sooner that victims can arange to be somewhere other than a shelter (by calling family, finding out of town shelters, etc.), the sooner you will have an extra bed for someone who doesn't have that option. Maybe now that the power is down, all that broadband-over-power-lines will be down so the ham radio operators can help with the truly urgent info. Well, not to flame, but if you had a child that had just moved into the dorm at UNO, and you didn't know if they were alive or not, your definition of "urgent info" might change a bit. This is not an either/or circumstance, bringing in a satalite phone or 2 is not going to cause the survivors to start keeling over. I am sure if it were the choice between a life and a phone, the red cross would choose the life.

  24. Re:ET: Electric Terrestrial vs Ham Radio by kb1cvh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    RF isn't a great answer for EVERYONE to chat up with their friends and family.

    However, RF - as implimented by Amateur Radio Emergency Services (ARES) and the National Traffic System (NTS) can provide health and welfare traffic ie. I'm alive in 'selter location' with ..... That traffic is secondary to priority and emergency traffic for the served agencies (FEMA, Red Cross, Salvation Army, etc), until the land line and other services are restored.

    73 (best regards).

    --
    Peter AI6PG
  25. This is why BPL is a bad idea. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    During this disaster Amateur radio operators (almost always the first communications up and running) have been of significant assistence.

    BPL will make amateur radio effectivly unusable if it is implemented widely.

    But but but... I hear you saying... BPL won't be creating interference when the power is down!

    What people forget is that amateur radio operators use thier radios between disasters, including practice disaster scenarios.

    If BPL becomes widespread then they (we) will be significantly disadvantaged and it will start driving amateurs away from this hobby (this hobby which has so many community benifits).

    This can already be seen with the restrictions on antennas (covenants etc) that are becomming more and more common.

    If this trend continues we might not be there next time we are needed :-/

  26. 212 Calling 504 by Doc+Ruby · · Score: 3, Informative

    In NYC after the 9/11/2001 planebombs blew up the World Trade Center, including the vast telecom infrastructure centered in 7 World Trade, phone service was crippled. But for the city government, that lasted only a couple of days. The City's IT department ("DoITT") took an in-house VoIP experiment, and prematurely deployed it to over 50,000 of the City government's 75,000 desk phones. They actually worked a few blocks from the smoke-choked Ground Zero to install telecom servers over existing TCP/IP LANs. Which gave not only dialtone, but the conferencing, connectivity and security demanded by that unprecedented crisis. The next several weeks saw the high performance of that emergency replacement, coping with the vast weight of the telecom organizing the city's recovery from the catastrophe.

    New Orleans ain't New York City. I lived there, too, and I know it's hardly "Silicon Alley": It's Carbon Swamp. The telecom services there aren't really comparable to NYC's, even on leisurely good days. But the Big Easy could take a lesson from the Big Apple, just as all cities can. We proved that disaster recovery can be highly effective, and those results are available to the world. These scale disasters are becoming more frequent. People should become familiar with techniques for coping with them now, before the crisis, when planning and preparation can be done on one's own schedules, and not merely the best one can do when disaster strikes.

    --

    --
    make install -not war

  27. Re:Red Cross runs IT now? by dougmc · · Score: 2, Insightful
    Maybe now that the power is down, all that broadband-over-power-lines will be down so the ham radio operators can help with the truly urgent info.
    Great. Now all the ham operators in New Orleans can talk to each other. But all the other cities in the US, they still have their BPL (because the power is still on), so there's nobody else to talk to, just each other. Local BPL doesn't really affect transmission of HF signals, only the reception.

    And of course if you have BPL active in your city 99.9% of the time, making the HF bands useless, how many hams would go to the trouble of obtaining and maintaining HF equipment for that 0.1% of the time it actually works? A rig may work after being in storage for a few years, but the batteries probably won't, and the antenna may or may not.

    Fortunately, BPL has not been rolled out universally, so the HF bands are still useful for most. For now.

    DE AD5RH

  28. A Huge Aerial Shot of Hurricane Katrina... by antdude · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Big shot. It is 6200x8000 pixels and 8.4 MB big. Amazing how clear and big we can get with today's satellites.

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  29. Re:Red Cross runs IT now? by Fubar · · Score: 2, Informative

    The cell phone is a luxury right now; a dry place to sleep is the real need.

    The Red Cross is bringing in telcom equipment to not only provide an outside link to those affected by the disaster, but to also coordinate the RC's response to this disaster.

    Each service center and shelter needs comms back to their assigned HQ which also needs comms to other HQ's and to the National HQ in Washington D.C. How do you do that in areas which have had their infrastructure wiped out? You bring it with you.

    That is why the Red Cross is deploying their ECRVs (mentioned in the article) and "Fly Away Kits" which provide stationary sat comms.

    This is not about giving people cell service (something the Red Cross isn't equipped for), this is about creating a lifeline to the rest of the world using satellite links and VoIP.

  30. SMS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Instead of trying to retain full voice, wouldn't it be better to just limit none essential mobiles to text? Then the system could survive on far fewer base stations, but retain some communications for all. You can surely get many more text messages through the network than voice.

  31. This is a silly question that requires a profound by williamyf · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...Answer...

    Lets see:

    The Thelephone Systemm is designed with statistical multiplexing in mind (extremely simplified explanation: the capacity is that of what is expected in the peak hour as an average) but the system is not able to fullfill EVERY SINGLE REQUEST from EVERY SINGLE USER at the same time. For those interested, the capasity is derived from Earlang tables (link for the Danish Matematician: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agner_Krarup_Erlang/ Link for the unit and calculations in telecoms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlang_unit/)

    Mobile systems, being telecom systems, are designed along the same lines, but allowing for mobility. That is why, when there is rush hour, or when there is a concert, or when there are demonstartions (in my country, Venezuela, at least) it was hard to get throug. With Mobile systems, you have two choke points. The antena itself (Called BTS in GSM terms, I will use GSM terminology because I worked for 6 years in various positions and capacities the field), and the switch itself (MSC, again in GSM Terms). Normaly you engineer the system so that the blocking rate due to the MSC is many times lower that the blocking rate due to the BTSs (RF)

    If everybody tries to call 911 at the same time, or call their relatives, or receive a call from relatives, the system will not be able to cope. Add to that the fact that many BTSs (and other infrastructure) will be out of service due to the following reasons:
    - The Towers/Antenae themselves are damaged
    - The tower/antenae are ok, but the Microwave links between them and the MSC (BSCs and transcoders taken into account) are missaligned due to the wind.
    - ADSL Links to the BTSs not working.
    - Lack of power
    - Equipment destroyed (A tree falls on the shellter damaging the electronics, but the antena is ok. It happens. Once One of our BTSs was out because some moron fired at the shelter, and the bullet perforated a Satellite modem).
    - et cetera

    Now you begin to see the challenge here.

    Is not that there is nothing to be done. In GSM you have a copuple of tricks down your Sleeve. First, you can activate a mode known as Half-Rate. This will decrease the datarate of a voicecall, from aprox 13.3Kbps to aprox 6.7Kbps. The voicequality will suffer, but the (remaining) Capacity of the radiofrequency system will be doubled, just like that!.

    The second thing that can be done is to put the system in Emergency mode. In this mode, Some calls get priority over the others. That is to say, police, firefigthers, goverment oficials, the phones of the people that work for the operator, and calls alerady stablished to the emergency number (911 in USA, 121 in europe, 127 here in venezuela) get priority over all other calls, allowing the relief personnel to better coordinate their efforts.

    I do not know what can be done in the CDMA200 1xRTT world, but I am sure there are some tricks for them as well.

    Here in Venezuela (and in Colombia, where I also worked), we have very bad Electrical systems, so many of our BTSs (and all of our BSCs and MSCs) have battery backup power AND motogenerators, giving them an autonomy of Two or more days (until the Diesel fuel dries out). In a situation like that of Katrina, it may not be possible to replenish the fuel. But to make it worse, in america the electric system is so good, that is dificult to justify the use of motogenerators in the BTSs themselves, but just in critical pieces of equipment. So, after some hours, is goodbye to the cell system. The MSC may Still work, and the BSCs. The SMSs that your family sends you from the other side of the globe will be received, and will be stored in the SMSC server, but will not get to you because there will be no towers on. GAME OVER.

    So, is not the ubiquity of the equipment, but a design focused on availability and disaster handling that will allow you to be able to stay comunicated during time

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
  32. Technology is secondary by mr.warmth · · Score: 2, Informative

    As the TV show said, we have the technology. It's a business decision how to deploy it. Can you run your business by having enough capacity for rare peak demand? Probably not. In the 2003 blackout, cellphones failed not because of the electricity outage but because people saturated the network. Such events happen rarely. Presumably those who really need to communicate (ie emergency services) in those situations have the means to do so outside of commercial channels. For private companies, it may not be reasonable or possible to accomodate the event when EVERYONE is dialing at the same time.

    This is not limited to natural disasters and other such situations. I have a beach house. When the weather is not so nice, my cellphone works fine there. When it's beautiful, it doesn't work so well because a large amount of people have flooded to the beach and there isn't enough local capacity for them. Why people are yammering away on the beach instead of enjoying themselves is beyond me. Or maybe they just have a boss like me.

  33. Yep, Ham Radio is working... by msauve · · Score: 2, Interesting

    and will continue to, at least until BPL destroys all HF communications. http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/08/30/1/?nc= 1

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  34. Grain of salt by geekoid · · Score: 2, Insightful

    it may have happened, OTOH, in any great disaster strike, many 'fantastic' tales get circulated that turn out to not be true.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re:Grain of salt by YrWrstNtmr · · Score: 2, Insightful

      True. But this was a firsthand report, live on the telephone, from the initial ham operator in Tulsa. I'm sure NPR has the transcript. It was today, Aug 30, around 5:30 PM EDT, if you care to look it up.

    2. Re:Grain of salt by stevew · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You'll find the story up on www.ARRL.org. Is that authentic enough for you?

      --
      Have you compiled your kernel today??
  35. How is this modded insightful? by poofyhairguy82 · · Score: 2, Insightful
    This is such an asshole comment. New Orleans was created because 200+ years ago we didn't have roads to get everywhere and the best way to transport goods was to float it down rivers. New Orleans, at the mouth of the Mississippi River, manages the traffic that want to go from the Mississippi River to Ocean- for over 300 years!. There are some of the oldest European landmarks in North American there, and thousands of people in the region help on offshore oil rigs that keeps the U.S.A. afloat. There is a good reason there is a city there.

    But not to you, Mr. Asshole. To you, its THEIR fault this happened. Its my grandmothers fault that her house is under water right now (which is why I am so mad at your heartless comment). I mean 40 years ago she COULD have bought it somewhere else, except for the fact that my grandfather's job was in New Orleans and they didn't have the means to live else where. But no, you are right, its her fault.

    This shit makes me sooo mad. And to see such cold tripe modded up....sad day...

  36. Geeky antennae stuff by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 2, Interesting
    My old departed friend Bob Long (W6QBN) when he wasn't telling me how these newfangled digital computers work, loved to talk about his amateur radio habit. An ex USN carrier radio officer, his interests covered morse skills, happily conveyng enormous detail about why you need an IF stage (think "applications middleware" but in an analogue sense) but more than anything he loved to rattle on about the subject of antennae.

    It seems that you can get one or two watts of transmitter to go amazing distances if you know a little antennae theory and know how to lay your hands on a reel of coax cable.

    Long-wires, capacity hats, incredible things like directional-discontinuity ring radiators, very high tech that can be built with a few iron fence stakes and a bit of wire and a good head for geometry.

    Astoundingly powerful communications technology for an extremely accessible cost. If you want to know more get an old ARRL handbook. Sort of like the older Boy Scout Handbooks from back in the days when they were useful, but cover all the basics of home-brew transmitters. Get one.

    One of the problems ham radio faces in times of cataclysmic storm is the shape of the ionosphere at the time and place. It's used as a signal reflector. On good days you can whisper from Maine to Tokyo on a watt. On bad days, you can't punch through with 50MW unless you have line of sight.

    --
    Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
  37. Cell phone system was a mistake. by Catbeller · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Back in the late seventies and early eighties, Gerard K. O'Neill, famous for the development of the idea of orbital space habitats, made the rounds of the government and corporate powers to strongly propose the idea of the satellite phone. He wanted to have a profit-making reason to go into space to realize his dreams.

    The prototype phone he showed around was about the size of a cellular handset you could buy today.

    O'Neill's project never made it out of the gate. Too expensive for a private company to make, and we are all about private companies.

    Bill Gates famously put some of his cash into a six billion dollar venture called Iridium which actually still functions. At least, unless they've deorbitted due to budget woes. They went bankrupt, and the US government picked it up for pennies on the dollar. That's one way of getting a cheap satphone system.

    America and the rest of the planet went a different route, for purely business reasons. It was more profitable to roll out cellular coverage in stages, as customers could be found to pay the bills. They make fabulous amounts of money.

    But as we see today in New Orleans, although cell phones passed the money test, they've utterly failed to support their users. People are dying out there because the cheap, easy-to-build cell towers are powerless and flooded.

    Sometimes, and I can't see how much more forcefully a point can be made than an entire region falling out of communication, engineering for critical infrastructure should NOT BE LEFT SOLEY TO THE FREE MARKET.

    The military is flying in satphones so that rescuers and cops can finally talk to each other.

    Iridium, or a successor should be government subsidized, expanded, and maintained as a national security asset. Screw the cell phone companies. Screw the billionaires. Make a national phone company, like the post office. Let it operate independently, for profit, but chartered to provide service for all, from the satellites in the sky, at subidized prices. Priority for disasters. We need this. It is not an optional extra for civilization.

    I know someone who can't rest because a relative was driving north on I-10 and hasn't been heard from in over two days. He should be able to phone. A prison has rioted, and no one can get through to find out what's going on.

    If we can spend a trillion- yes, after it is over, a trillion will be spent-- on this war in Iraq, we can spend a few measly billion dollars a year in perpetuity to make sure this infrastructure failure never happpens again.

    Libertarians, this one's for you. A lesson in humility and sanity. Government is sometimes the only solution.

  38. 800Mhz failed, hams save the day again by KB3JUV · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I just recieved reports that New Oreleans trunked 800 MHz trunked system failed. Ham radio operators are pretty much standing by waiting to get into the city. People are being evacuated from the city and the last thing they would do is let hams go in. I have been listening to the Hurricane Net and am really amazed by all the work they and the SATERN guys are doing. Good luck to all of them.

    --
    www.kb3juv.com
  39. problem: hurricanes do not file flight paths by johnpaul191 · · Score: 2, Informative

    that story aside, there is no absolutes when plotting the path of a hurricane. remember if you evacuate people, you have to move them somewhere... and you may be moving them right into the path of the storm. Amtrak trains would be a very slow way to do mass evacuations of a whole region.... and the trains have limited directions they can go. didn't you ever see a Godzilla movie? the people on the trains ALWAYS get it.

    there is also the case of many people not wanting to leave. in a way i could see their thinking. people did not expect this kind of devastation. people have a habit of recalling the worst storm they remember and figure "i survived that". they also fear leaving all their possessions to looters or whatever.